FrozenLaughs's page

I would streamline Feats into Feat paths/trees. Like Two Weapon Fighting; initially you buy the feat but it includes Improved and Greater automatically when meeting higher requirements. Improved TWF requires Dex 17 and BAB +6, I would start including more skill investments, like maybe 6 ranks of Acrobatics, to compensate for creating a Feat path, and Greater TWF might require 11 Acrobatics and maybe something else that fits thematically like lesser ranks in another skill or a different feat. Overall, you get all 3 feats from a single slot, freeing up one or two for other bonuses. The same can be done for the Critical, Shield, Crafting families etc etc.

I've always had trouble with the logic that you can buy TWF (or something equivalent) and over the course of 20 lvls NEVER get better at it naturally despite all the other improvements you automatically get with little or no choice, but I have to choose to get better at TWF even if I use it nearly every day for 20 years. Feat paths would make your feat selections feel more like optional class abilities that grow with you.

while those are the most common things for crafting there are much much more things that fall under what crafting can do, some are a lot more specific while others are more general all of which craft things as for being able to actually do the crafting step one master craftmen as well as 2 traits that will boost either crafting or profession (there's one that allows you to take 12 instead of take 10 and the other just gives a +2)step 2 craft wondrous items and step 3 craft arms and armor

You're completely ignoring everything I just said. What Craft_____ lets you make everything? Tell me please. Even taking Master Craftsman at level 5, you still need 5 ranks in a craft or profession. And Master Craftsman is only the basis for qualifying for Craft Magic Arms&Armor and Craft Wonderous Item, you would still need to purchase them at levels 7 and 9,unless you're claiming to Retrain your Character levels 1 and 3 (non FBF) feats, which you could technically do for CWI, but NOT CMA&A because it requires a caster level of 5 that you can't fake until level 5 with the purchase of Master Craftsman to begin with. So now you aren't even qualified for Craft Magic Arms & Armor until 7, and at this point you've invested half of what makes you a Fighter into being a smith...

And you still haven't clarified what Craft____ you've invested those precious 2+int mod (+human/fcb) skill points into. Do you have points into Profession? Can you run a business in your downtime to make money off what you make? Do you have points in Appraise, Diplomacy, or Sense Motive like a merchant would? Let's say you retrain to pick up Craft Wonderous Item after learning Master Craftsman at 5. Did you put points into Craft-Jewelery for the Wonderous Items like earrings, rings, amulets and necklaces? Or did you perhaps put them into Craft-Leatherworking to make those sweet gloves, boots, and headbands? What about Craft-Gemcutting to make those cool Figurines and Ioun Stones and stuff?

Or let's look at Craft Magic Arms&Armor. Do you have points in Craft-Armor or Craft-Weapons? Or are you arguing that something more universal like "Craft-Metalworking" is enough of a loophole to do everything? Because your Craft selections are literally THAT SPECIFIC, it's called out specifically in the Skill description that I not only posted, but YOU QUOTED and ignored. Bottom line, if you or your DM thinks that crafting is this cheap, broad and generalized then you are seriously abusing a system that neither of you seem to completely understand.

So... Force it into a death hibernation and leave it for a few eons and let Starfinder deal with it lol

Take it to zero HP however you do, then use a Wish to teleport the carcass to the deepest recesses of the bottom of the ocean.

"Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation."

Not counting the use of logic like lack of oxygen or crushing pressure; at best it regenerates once, tries to inhale air as the first thing it does and immediately begins making Constitution checks for drowning.

"When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns."

Or do we assume the Tarrasque's caveat of "nothing surpresses Regen" somehow applies to drowning in this one specific case?

So basically whats happened is I've had two new players join my campaign and only one has any d20 experience. So I added a new sidequest to our game and had everyone roll up easier, lower level characters. The setup to get them together is that my NPC sold her first "inpenetrable" safe to the Merfolk and an artifact was stolen from it a couple weeks later; but there doesn't seem to have been any way the thief could have done it. So she gets the players together on a heist/manhunt quest to retrieve the artifact and possibly capture the thief himself, for... Interrogation. ;)

Essentially, I just need to create this so called "inpenetrable" safe that has the most failsafes and protections for its value. My idea was initially that the prototype cost wouldn't necessarily matter if she has a gimmick to cheat the system and duplicate it for her profit. (she's my NPC, and she runs the Thieves Guild so it's ok if she cheats the system)

I threw the entire scenario together off the top off my head because character designs changed at the last minute and screwed up my original plans lol.

Wow. This entire debacle sounds like a train wreck that you just can't look away from. So many things have gone wrong over these sessions.

Yes, Pathfinder says it is 3.5 compatible. It is more in a sense that those rules were the foundation to the house Paizo built. Not really "grab any 3.5 book and have at it". The point of the Pathfinder system is balancing out all the bullshit power balance issues that 257+ 3.5 books created. There's a reason the Prestige Classes took a backseat to Archetypes, and that Alternate Racial Traits were expanded on: they let you create that combination of abilities you want by simply making some tit-for-tat swaps. That's also why level adjustment shenanigans like Templates are practically gone. That's why there's so many fewer splat books.
I'm looking at my 3.5 shelf and I have 6 Complete books in sight. Flipping through them all, I'd wager there's at least 80 classes added. Probably more. Most contain the same combinations of "unique" abilities that I can reasonably emulate in Pathfinder with a simple Archetype or two, and maybe a few Racial traits. And still level a single class all the way to 20. (or at worst, dip a few levels of a basic dual class setup). Especially with the introduction of Hybrid classes.

But I'm seeing other issues too. You said that your Storyteller is 10 years younger than you? Did I read that right? As in, he's 10 and you're 20? Or he's 20 and you're 30? The lack of overall knowledge from all sides, coupled with poor grammer and the inability to concede mistakes on your own part impart a sense that everyone here is young and completely inexperienced. Having repeatedly defended your stance towards your character with "I've also Dm'd and it seems fine to me" tells me:

*You haven't Dm'd over a character as broken as yours
*You haven't Dm'd over a player as difficult as you
*You haven't played in any games where the DM had a firm enough grasp on the situations at hand
*Nobody at your table has a firm grasp on why Pathfinder is PATHFINDER and not 3.5

One of the first things you guys need to learn as both a new Storyteller and a new player is that limitations have to be set until the rules are understood. It's the "walk before you run" scenarios that are crucial to enjoying the game in the future, years down the road. If you're a new player or DM, you should be limiting yourself to things that you can handle, like basic races and core classes until you understand why they are designed the ways they are; why the changes were made in the transition from 3.5 to Pathfinder.

If you're either an experienced player or DM, (as you seem to fancy yourself) you should be addressing brand new players and DMs with the same approach. Build a simple character your young DM can understand, so they can learn why things are designed the way they are. You should be helping them "learn to walk" instead of throwing terribly designed, complicated, errata-designed homebrews at them when they don't know better to say no, and likely are trusting your proclaimed "experience" to mean you can police yourself. Which clearly hasn't yet been the case. Complaining they aren't sticking "within the rules" that they clearly lack understanding in isn't going to win you any cases, if you can't first identify the problem of why they so desperately need to resort to breaking those rules to begin with.

Your enjoyment really should be in your time with the people around you, not with imaginary numbers on a sheet of paper. If your sole measurements of entertainment are that you have the most overpowered character at the table to impress everyone, you're both in the wrong game, and at the wrong table my friend. If you aren't interested in playing something basic for the sake of the entire group, and the development of a new Storyteller, you're at the wrong table. All it can take is a single player to completely remove the desire to ever be a Storyteller again, ruining not only your current campaign, but the enjoyment of everyone who likes playing under them, and anyone who could potentially play with them in the future.

This entire thread has done nothing but make you all sound inexperienced, immature, short sighted and selfish. Hopefully you can take something from this and adjust your attitudes.

Weirding Blade - Nice nod to Dune
El-rad (or some variation) - A play on LRAD sound cannons used for crowd control
Noisy Cricket - Couldn't help but toss a MiB reference in.
Siren's Cry/Call - Nod to Siren mythos
Calliope - Could also work well with the right secondary, she was the muse of Epic poetry.

It's a Finnese weapon yes? Implying it has speed to it-
Allegro
Cadence
Cadenza
Calypso
Tempo
- all have a meaning of speed, albeit more of a musical touch.

You could also use more basic secondaries-
scream
howl
whisper
cry
call
shout
moan
roar
shriek
thunder

I have not read the rules for Drowning in quite awhile, I see I'm incorrect about Con damage. I wonder what I was thinking of.... Hmmm.

If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round.

So if it's walking along the ocean floor or attempting to swim upwards, it's reduced to 34 rds? Either way, if it comes back to life 3 rds after death, does that magically expell the water from its lungs and refill them with oxygen? It should just end up in an infinite loop of drowning. At least, until the body floats to the surface... But that's not figuring pressure damage or anything from water depth...

For that matter teleport it to the elemental plane of water. Anyways, I'm way off topic for this thread. Are we cutting it in half at the waist, or lengthwise? Not that it matters by it's regeneration ability, but I'm wondering what has that kind of ability.

Teleport it to the bottom of the ocean. Regeneration doesn't heal Con damage from drowning. Done.

Please put me in the "all Knowledge checks" actually means what it says. Since a DC 26 Knowledge (engineering) check is a Knowledge check, a bard can attempt it untrained, even if a wizard couldn't.

This specifically; because that one esoteric bit of knowledge about Engineering, the Bard may have simply gleened from quickly perusing a manual or blueprint for a catapult once. He is by no means an expert on catapults or Engineering, but he really remembers that one picture really, really well.

This is the concept that Bardic Knowledge emulates. It's random facts, knowledge and trivia, gathered from a lifetime of travels. Bards would kick ass at Jeopardy and Trivial Pursuit, but they don't have to have actually STUDIED those particular subjects they're answering. (Honestly, don't we all have that one friend or family member like this?)

Honesty about situations and mistakes will get you miles further with your players than lying ever will. We have a recap before every session and if I made mistakes I'm straight up front about it. I like to let them know what I did wrong so that they don't repeat it in the future, or they can catch me if I accidentally start doing it again. Sometimes I even refund some resources, like if I calculated a hit bonus wrong and I know a player took a couple hard hits that should have missed; I may be inclined to give a potion back, or add a couple Cure spells back to the Cleric. Players don't expect you to be a rules dictionary, they just expect you to provide an entertaining game. It's not You vs. Them, and lying to them and being underhanded makes it that way.

FrozenLaughs wrote:

And for people who run primarily off of the SRD resources, only the APG and Tech guide are on that list, which to be fair does add almost a dozen I wasn't thinking of.

Actually, it is the PRD which would only include the APG and Tech Guide.

The SRD and Archives of Nethys both include all of the prestige classes from the books on that list.

Quote:

Not a lot of us own all the splat books and Golarion setting specific stuff (gods know I wish I could)

I recall comments from Paizo staffers that they view prestige classes as being inherently tied to specific cultures and organizations... hence the vast majority of them are found in setting specific books... which are not included on the PRD.

Oh hey, good catch! I primarily use a PRD thats available on my phone app, so I forget what they're called. Secondly,

Holy F@&$

I've never seen Archives of Nethys! Wow! Wonky on my phone browser, but wow! Thanks for sharing that gem :D

Aelryinth wrote:

'ignores' does not mean 'passes through'. It means it ignores it. The mechanical text says 'it does no harm to it'. Not that it passes through it.==Aelryinth

Quote:

A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter.

Rules Text stating basic property of Brilliant Every weapons.

Quote:

Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor.

The following sentence does not modify the original statement; it clarifies a specific interaction.

See, I agree that's the problem-too many players read that description and they immediately picture a lightsaber.

*Brilliant Energy
*passes through Armor
*ignores non living matter

Ignores is the big factor here, and heres an example why:

Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20 (see Additional Rules).

Players read that block of text and immediately think of Wolverine and his Adamantium claws that slice through almost anything. How does Adamantine ignore hardness less than 20? It slices straight through it.

Players overlay their interpretation of one as the default interpretation of the other. They read the flavor text, imagine a sword of light, see the word ignore, read that it's a +4 enhancement near the bottom of the list, automatically assume due to that fact that it must be one of the most powerful enchantments in the game, and arrive at the Lightsaber conclusion.

Bonus feats awarded for Fighter levels are specifically refered to as Fighter Bonus Feats in multiple sources, and are supposed to be denoted, as they are not in fact "just combat feats".

Core Rulebook FAQ

Fighter: What feats can I retrain at level 4, 8, and so on?

Class entries in the Core Rulebook are written assuming that your character is single-classed (not multiclassed). The fighter's ability to retrain feats allows you to retrain one of your fighter bonus feats (gained at 1st level, 2nd level, 4th level, and so on). You can't use it to retrain feats (combat feats or otherwise) from any other source, such as your feats at level 1, 3, etc., your 1st-level human bonus feat, or bonus feats from other classes.
(THIS INCLUDES THE SENTINEL BONUS FEAT YOU GET AT LVL 2 BECAUSE IT'S GAINED FROM SENTINEL NOT FIGHTER)

You may want to asterisk your fighter bonus feats on your character sheet so you can easily determine which you can retrain later.

posted June 2013

Graystone has been correct on every counterpoint about Bonus Feats from each class being specific to each class/archtype, but earned cumulatively.

1. You never learn the Class abilities Weapon Training 1-4 as a Weapon Master. Weapon groups are a Class feature, not a feat.

2. You don't know a single Weapon Group, only your mastered weapon type.

3. Advanced Weapon Training is a Class ability, not a feat.

Beginning at 9th level, instead of selecting an additional fighter weapon group, a fighter can choose an advanced weapon training option for one fighter weapon group that he previously selected with the weapon training class feature.

4. See the Bold? You have neither.

At 2nd level and again at 7th level, the sentinel gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. Sentinel levels stack with fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats with a fighter level prerequisite.

You cannot take the Advanced Weapon Training feat either:

You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.

Prerequisite(s): Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.

Benefit(s): Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you have already selected with the weapon training class feature.

Again, you traded those Class features to become a Weapon Master.

If you're a GM who says no to this, we just can't be friends. I'm sorry, but life's too short.

As far as I'm concerned, you've cast magical enchantments upon your physical body, much in the way that you would enchant a weapon. You've made them permanent, just as you would a weapon or any other object. Your enchantments remain upon the body even as the soul leaves the body, because it's not the soul that is enchanted, just the vessel.

If you are polymorphed permanently and then die, does your soul travel to the appropriate Plane looking like an Elf, a women (if you were male) or a frog? No. You go back looking as you did when you were created. Reincarnation? That's a whole different discussion that could be argued either way.

Anyways, does a broken weapon lose its enchantments when broken? No. (unless I've blatantly missed a rule) Destroyed? Yes, there's nothing left to physically hold the magic so it dissipates. Why are we applying different logic to a body?

'Masterwork' improvised weapons are likely 'masterwork' for their non-weapon purpose. A masterwork frying pan doesn't hit any better than a non-masterwork, but it sure can fry up some eggs.

Why wouldn't my Adamantine Frying Pan hit people in the face as effectively as my Adamantine Hammer? Both made by the same smith, same materials, similar shapes and used with the same purpose. The only thing making that Pan "improvised" is because nobody goes to school to learn how to fight with one, not because it can't be used as one.

If I can enchant the big flat head of a warhammer, I see no reason to say I can't enchant the big flat head of of a cooking pan.

"Im not fighting with these Dwarven Waraxes, Im just juggling them."

"Whoops, I dropped one... two... three... of them."

DM: "*sighing heavily*... The Ogre takes 25 points of damage and falls over dead."

Wouldn't Profession: Juggler imply attacking with anything that you could juggle? Seems like a lot of wiggle room there... And makes for some absolutely wonderful ideas lol

By ignoring the requirement, it could potentially put the archetype 1 rage power "ahead" of it's intended balance... Not sure if that's a real issue or not...?

(Su) and (Ex) are not "bonus types".

Things like Dodge, Alchemical, Deflection, Size, etc. are "bonus types".

Im not talking about the typing. I'm referring to the SOURCE of what provides the bonus. Are you saying that Supernatural Abilities are not provided by a Supernatural Source?

You are receiving a specific bonus (we'll say Wis mod to AC), the source is a Supernatural source.

Getting the exact same specific bonus from another Supernatural ability does not stack, you already have an unknown mystical Supernatural power giving you that ability. You can't double dip.

Getting the ability via an Extraordinary ability does stack. The source this time is from sheer force of physical and mental training, not a mystical source. While the benefit remains the same (X stat to AC) the value is simply defined by Wisdom, Wisdom is not the SOURCE of the ability/bonus.

Both abilities are gained via different sources and are therefore typed differently, allowing stacking. One provides a wisdom mod bonus to AC from a SU source and the other EX source.

Again, you interpret source in one way, I another. I'm simply trying to highlight another example of why this needs resolved

FrozenLaughs wrote:

Seranov wrote:

FrozenLaughs wrote:

Even if it were an ability that added Cha on top, if another class or feat added the ability again it would be allowed as long as they aren't the same type (Extraordinary, Spell Like or Supernatural) or share the same name. Take for instance the Monk/Warpriest(Sacred Fist) debate going on now:

Both receive the identical ability: AC Bonus (SU). This ability is the SOURCE of adding Wis to AC. They cannot add it twice because they are from the same source: Supernatural Ability. If either was an extraordinary (EX) ability the source would be different and stacking would be allowed.

This is patently incorrect, by the way: link.

Hmmm, rereading I see that Monks AC bonus is in fact EX not SU, making them stackable as different sources.

This is not a thing. Ex, Su, and Sp are not sources.

No, I'm saying that the source of the wisdom bonus is in fact typed: an ability of SU or EX origin. Another SU or EX ability providing an identical bonus does not stack as the benefit is already provided via another SU or EX source.

It's just another example of how we interpret "source" differently.

FrozenLaughs wrote:

Even if it were an ability that added Cha on top, if another class or feat added the ability again it would be allowed as long as they aren't the same type (Extraordinary, Spell Like or Supernatural) or share the same name. Take for instance the Monk/Warpriest(Sacred Fist) debate going on now:

Both receive the identical ability: AC Bonus (SU). This ability is the SOURCE of adding Wis to AC. They cannot add it twice because they are from the same source: Supernatural Ability. If either was an extraordinary (EX) ability the source would be different and stacking would be allowed.

This is patently incorrect, by the way: link.

Hmmm, rereading I see that Monks AC bonus is in fact EX not SU, making them stackable as different sources.

Classic example:
Noble Scion of War (IIRC) changes Initiative form being a Dex-based check to being a Char-based check.
Which raises the question of whether equipment like the Circlet of Persuasion would then modify your Charisma-based Initiative, where it wouldn't affect your Dexterity-based Initiative...

It's the wording of the item that makes it ambiguous in this case, as it doesn't specify Cha *skill* checks. Initiative straight out says it is a Dexterity check. Specific rules trump general, so a class ability that substitutes Cha is going to make it a Cha check. Gaining exp and learning new feats/abilities that improve Cha even further will increase this characters initiative checks as a byproduct of the substitution.

Even if it were an ability that added Cha on top, if another class or feat added the ability again it would be allowed as long as they aren't the same type (Extraordinary, Spell Like or Supernatural) or share the same name. Take for instance the Monk/Warpriest(Sacred Fist) debate going on now:
Both receive the identical ability: AC Bonus (SU). This ability is the SOURCE of adding Wis to AC. They cannot add it twice because they are from the same source: Supernatural Ability. If either was an extraordinary (EX) ability the source would be different and stacking would be allowed.

Cha for initiative? How weird lol - "I can see you're in a rush, old chap, but I respectfully ask that you wait your turn."

Wow, this is getting convoluted for something so simple. A stat modifier is not a SOURCE. By gaining experience in a class you unlock more powerful abilities. These abilities are the SOURCE. Just because they require "something" to reflect a fluctuating bonus doesn't mean one trumps another.

Another ability with a different name, gained from gaining experience in another class is 100% a different SOURCE despite using the same "something" to determine how powerful the bonus is.

Is this still a discussion about the two spells, or did it turn into a **** measuring contest?

I'm having trouble following the large arrow logic... Say you do pack some Large ones in your quiver. After Enlarge Person, aren't those arrows now Huge, incurring a size penalty to the attack... Until after they are fired and shrink back?

Is encasing them inside the Efficient Quiver preventing the size increase? Do they not increase to the appropriate size when drawn?

Zalman wrote:

You don't miss a skill check because you exceed the DC. The distance calculation is used only ...
Right, you don't fail the skill check. You go way farther than the distance you need to travel to not fail. I wouldn't say jumping farther than you needed to is failing.

By that logic...

I'm standing on a 15ft platform. Ahead of me is an alternating series of 15ft chasms and 15ft platforms.

Despite my incredible training, I make such an incredible jump that I surprise even myself; I clear not only the chasm ahead of me, but the next platform as well, and fall to my death. (Into the first 5ft square of the second chasm.)

I'm supposed to believe that at that level of skill, my character can't land where he wants to land? I'm supposed to cross my fingers and hope that I don't roll 16+ and accidentally overshoot my target? Pray I don't roll a natural 20 and suddenly take flight, unable to control myself like a pubescent X-man learning to fly?

It doesn’t necessarily have to be how far the jump takes you, rolling 25 on a dc15 jump doesn't actually mean you jumped 25 ft, just the 15ft you needed.

Otherwise imagine the fight when the DM places another pit after the first; you roll high enough to not only clear the first pit, but to land plumb in the middle of the next one. Lol