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420 posts. Alias of Robodruida.


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My wizard (12th level) now has the time and money to finally use the tattoo feat.
I need opinions on what would be the best use of the feat. I'm thinking of healing stuff to remove poison/negative levels/ SOS spell effects. But it can use more than that.

But I need optimization viewpoints.

Are the players embracing this game?

Mbertorch wrote:

No casters.

Oh, and supernatural ranger traps are allowed, apparently.

Can you explain? I mean I understand a crisis of faith with no input from the gods...

But Druids represent the magic of nature. What happened to them?

What happened to Druids?

My Self wrote:
Players don't like optimized enemies, because properly optimized and played enemies can force multiple resurrections, even if they ultimately lose. Also, optimized characters are often more difficult to understand than a single-class enemy with CRB feats. Plus, flavor-wise, optimized characters are usually really, really weird.

I understand. And I don't disagree.

But let me at least look at wizards.

A high level wizard should be really hard to kill. Tactically, id someone has breached the "wizard keep" they should have already escaped to the secondary hideout.

My wizards tend to have multiple layers, it seems that the other side would as well.


I have not played high level PF (>10th).

But in general it seems that big boss guys in published adventures seem underpowered. How often do they take advantage of the time and paranoia to have defense in depth?

Don't know why its bugging me, but with all the postings of character builds, it seems that bad guys are never optimized.

go to a port
find a ship that meets your fancy
hallucinatory terrain of the ship as is

cloud kill crew
repeated skeleton crew spells.
sail away.

I think we should just let Paizo come up with a ruling at this point.
so much anger.

Ravingdork wrote:
Franko a wrote:


Did the DM express concern about how you guys went about it?
Would it have been better to wake them up one by one and challenge them to singles combat?

I admit I am confused.
Seems to be right out of the first book of the black company TBH.

The DM did not express any concern until AFTER THE FACT.

She also said something about giving us a point of what she called "negative inspiration." Inspiration is a 5E mechanic (see spoiler for more details on that).

The GM described this "negative inspiration" as bring a form of "bloodlust" that might kick in at some later point--clearly a spontaneous house rule.

** spoiler omitted **...

Black Company is a series of books about magic and mercenaries from Glen Cook.

There is a D20 supplement based on the series.

Some of the better writing about magic, illusion, necromancy, and evil doing the "right thing".


Did the DM express concern about how you guys went about it?
Would it have been better to wake them up one by one and challenge them to singles combat?

I admit I am confused.
Seems to be right out of the first book of the black company TBH.

I am a player in the beginning of book 3.
I love S&S, its been lethal and lots of fun.

I don't see it as a low magic game though.

An engineering check to know about the soil type (not clay) and water table level (low) would warn the party that the vamp could hide or travel through some soils.

By the rules, I believe it depends on how much you spent on the wood.
picking up a piece of ironwood you found on the road, minimal profit.

Sending an exhibition ( that costs thousands)to the tallest mountain where there is a common pine, cost*3, as long as you take long enough to make it.

(yes its a game flaw)

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Decimus Drake wrote:
So what is it exactly that this player is actually doing? Also why not become the new captain yourself? With spells such as skeleton crew, unseen crew and mending (and similar spells) you could fulfil most roles yourself so why not captain too?

The character I was playing lost his ship to an encounter in book 2. Since the "Graff Spee" went down, he decided his time as captain was over.

And the drama with player who is captain seems over.

Its all moot at this point. Character died playing in a "necromantic fog"

I still done understand player, but crisis is over.
Thanks for all the help.

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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Ah, yes.... because when you become a lich you can still see, hear, smell, touch, and have a sense of balance.... but suddenly you lose the ability to taste coffee?
Undead Traits wrote:
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
I'm assuming that drinking is included with the no eating thing. If you'd prefer, becoming a lich means giving up ice cream.
I'm out.

spell research?

Decimus Drake wrote:
Who's the LE char yourself or the other player?

The Wizard is LE.

(Its skulls and shackles if it makes a dif)
His is neutral of some sort.

I think there needs to be a balance between GM and Players with this spell.

If one side abuses it, both sides abuse it. Communication about how to use them to advance the story line is key.

Personally, its my favorite spell.

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Man, not to be completely off-base, but why not try talking to him?

Wow. lots of good material here. Thank you all.

Once again, I cant tell if this is guy is really good roleplaying, or just being a bad player. He has done things that I have a hard time understanding. Not necessarily "bad wrong fun", just odd.

Talking to him in the past sometimes works. I just need a plan in case he does not listen.

Once again I want to thank my fellow gamers and coming up with good tactics.
Seriously hope I don't have to use them.

DebugAMP wrote:
Convince him to start the duel by having each player walk 30 paces in opposite directions. Nail him with an extended Deja Vu right before he does so. Giggle.


I cant, char is LE

Thanks for the ideas, they help a lot.
any more is always appreciated.

Not sure there will be a duel, just want to be prepared.
Player has had a habit of doing exactly the wrong thing, I cant tell if he is being disruptive, a bad roll player, a very good role player, or just inexperienced.

Decimus Drake wrote:

Got more info - race, spells, items, preparation time, funds etc?

It would be pointless for us to suggest level 8 and 9 scrolls if you don't have access to them.

What do you know about the other player? If their ranged capabilities are poor then fly is a must. If they're likely to target you with ranged attacks and spells then you'll want to break line of sight/effect.

Were my arcanist diviner still level 9 and in your situation I'd probably use wall of fire and pyrotechnics to obscure the battlefield and then summon appropriate creatures/buff and cast create pit.

To what extent do you need to 'take down' this player - what's the dual for?

I'm playing human.

He's playing a 1/2 efriti type, but has not submitted a hero lab compliant character sheet.
Does not have access to flight, seems to like to shape change and charge, does not have lots of magical gear.

my character can fly, can be invis, can summon, can get him exhausted easily,

Ravingdork wrote:
Why do you feel the need to do this? Is he particularly susceptible to Will save effects, and you are concerned that you need to protect the party should he get dominated, or something like that?

Some in game stuff, some out of game stuff.

Our "Capt" player has left hopefully he will be back.
I'm playing XO.
This character while not disruptive to the point of kicking out has triggered drama.

I expect that the character to make an attempt at becoming captain or challenging character to duel.

So if necessary, would prefer to take him down quickly, dramatically so that no further challenges occur.

And it might not happen, just want to be prepared.

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Korak The Boisterous wrote:
I'm a little sad nobody commented on my idea for allowing your children to inherit the world.

I like it, kingmaker indeed

Snowblind wrote:

A scroll of Limited Wish->Geas/Quest?

It's cheesy and the other player might call foul, but it's an option.

Otherwise...why can't you use your spell slots again? You aren't likely to win without using SoLs, and those are terrible on scrolls due to the low DCs. Can you at least prep a couple of them?

I guess you could spam Suffocate or Icy Prison and fish for bad rolls, but I would expect you to lose if the druid/fighter has built a mechanically competent character(which they might not be - druid/fighter isn't exactly a good multi-class).

Sorry, assume that character wrote scrolls himself.


Playing a game where I may be in a duel with a fighter/druid (5/4 or 4/5) I don't know which.

While wiz (diviner) is normally a buffer need to have scrolls ready to take him down without necessary killing him.
Best case, not causing any damage.

So just using scrolls, what would be ideal?

Trimalchio wrote:
One last point, by strictly laying wealth gain at the hands of the GM you essentially destroy player agency, no matter how well or poorly a character succeeds or fails it won't really matter because they can expect the same amount of reward as per their quixotic faith in the wbl guidelines.

That is what I have been saying for years.

Thank you

I've done this book(s), I like them.
You will have to adjust stuff. I think they are two powerful as the book is written.

I am surprised that this is still going along without flaming.

This may not be limited to just pathfinder, but with missile weapons that have ranges of hundreds of feet, why does it seem that most combats START at less than 100?

Having a crafting wizard makes a certain book......a pain to DM. You are coming up to it.
They books, while excellent, have weak encounters. I recommend not penalizing good playing but boosting the encounters.
A lot.

I've thought heat metal and water would work.

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Just as an FYI, the second bowl of popcorn is done.

I'm dming a group that has access to a powerful spell (End of book 2). The idea of a spell jammer type ship has been suggested.

I think its a great idea, like you.
However I would suggest that it be powered by the souls of the good people in this game.

At this point they have teleport, but they have minions.
so I don't think its upsetting?

Wow thank you for an excellent analysis.

Good day:

Is an edilon summoned by an evil character qualify as an evil outsider for the effects of a smite evil (paladin)
I believe so, but my search fu is weak
Thank you

I'll be running a combat where I want to Dragon to fly in and grab a person and fly away but mechanically I have had difficulty finding out how to do it in the PRD.

I'll be running this Friday so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thank you sir

no sense motive on the gf?

I would love to use it as well.

For the record.
In my younger days (2nd e)
I had aspestous sheep, immune to fireballs.

Love the litch discussions....
You mention servents.

In all seriousness, would they not have simulacrams like crazy?
Even with a powdered ruby cost (3e), I would think they would have those as well as lots of undead servents.

fresh bag of popcorn ready.

Taperat wrote:
In the past I've allowed players to have whatever magic items they could afford, and I never saw many issues with that, but I'm looking for a change. I'm about to run a homebrew-heavy campaign, in which I've done away with the ye olde magick shoppe and magic item creation completely. The gist of it is that the secrets of creating magic items were lost long ago, so shops that buy and sell magic items are dealing in scavenged antiquities. It's not that magic items are super rare per se, just that you have to make do with what you find. I'm also implementing a houserule creating two extra ring slots, that can only hold 'left hand rings of mental stats' and 'right hand rings of physical stats'. This way players feel less pressured to give up their interesting belt slot and headband slot items in favor of boring stat boosts. I've talked to my players and they seem down for it.

Your game- your rules....

But can you explain mechanically how that happened? Does this mean that all the wizards have died?
(and liches)
(and dragons)

Becuase knoledge is really Freking hard to kill.

Brotato wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:

Yes, since it takes a crafter of 15+ level to craft a +5 sword (and so on) those really cool magic weapons can't be cranked out by just anybody. And your 15+ level wizards probably have a lot of better things to do than cater to the greedy desires of the latest crop of adventurers, not to mention better ways to rake in loads of swag.

Most of those magic items that require really high-level casters to make are probably centuries old, if not more.

This said, I've really enjoyed reading this thread, and it reinforces the idea that you can play D&D/Pathfinder in many different ways, with a magic-rich or magic-poor setting, however you prefer. There is no one right way.

I feel like I'm a broken record here but I really feel like all these ideas about the rules allowing for Magic Mart Syndrome are a consequence of people never reading or enforcing settlement limitations. A +5 magic sword is also 50,000. If you're going by the rules, there *might* be one available (from the specific major item random roll) but if not, a player isn't going to be able to just buy one, even in a Metropolis (unless that metropolis has some traits that give it a decent boost to its base gp value). Many of these homebrew attempts I see have an incredible onus on them. I feel if many just really read the settlement rules and enforced them, they wouldn't need convoluted systems of magical item distribution.

Not disagreeing at all, but with 50K cash to burn, they probably have the ability to teleport where they need to go.

Just a speed bump?

Simon Legrande wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:

Y'know what I think makes magic so dang commonplace where players lose their sense of wonder? Spellcasters.

Seriously. All the magic shops in the world can't compete with a guy, in the party all the time, who with the right spell selection can do nearly anything everyone else can do and at least once/day win just about any fight.

Also think about it. Even if you sold items to the party without spellcasters you could describe ANY effect they perform and it would seem amazing. "This blade is forever sharp, clean and pure. What's more it traps even the most miniscule motes of light from the deepest shadow and amplifies them so that it always glows from within!" Then the wizard steps up and goes "Prestidigitation and light? Big whup."

Not having magic items being sold because it breaks player immersion or engagement or verisimilitude or whatever the right phrase here is just does not compute for me. If we want wonder at the power of magic then it can't be codified, quantified or even identified. Once it is, it's not wonderful anymore. Amazingly any spellcasting class, even bards, do this instantly just by existing.

Anyway sorry again for the rant. Really, I'm sorry.

Here's something that I think goes contrary to that idea. We always see claims that higher level spell casters are supposed to be super rare. I mean like 1:1,000,000,000 rare. If that's the case, how is the world littered with shops that sell equipment that only a high level caster could craft? (I'm not looking for an answer, it's just a counterpoint to the magic items everywhere idea).

Probably becuase the items are generally much more durable than normal items. they dont rot, corrode, become brittle.

They tend to stick around.

I have xtra dimensional magic marts.....

It just makes things easier.
And its a chance to rollplay.

Darthvader passes yoda near the coffe shop display.

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Thomas Long 175 wrote:

I hate their trample ability.

I mean seriously, have you ever had a house land on you? Its like insta death attack!

I have seen video of one killing a witch dead.

Only thing visable was legs and shooes.

I dont know why the halflings were dancing and singing.

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I guess i'll be boring

20 wiz/20 druid.
I'll be watching you from the clouds....
So preeety

Zhayne wrote:
Hmm. It's possible he's scrying on you and using that to find you after you teleport or sail away; most forms of scrying have a save or something to block it, though.


Character is staying in lead lined cabin on board ship. So scrying is harder than normal.


SnS game, 9th level (universalist wizard). Book 3?

I have a character that is being followed by a Dexterous type in all black. Probably shadow dancer. Is able to follow through teleports (OR) is backtracking my trail.

how can he track me through dimenaional jumping and sailing?

Is there a way to detect this tracking?

It is possible rule of cool>PRD in this case.

THank you

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