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Is there a Zombie archetype? I thought it was ghoul, ghost, vampire, mummy, and lich, with a skeleton ancestry. Speaking of Zombie Lords, has there been any word on their possible appearance within this book?
According to the preview that Nonat1s posted yesterday, the Reanimator archetype inspired me to make a Summoner (possibly with the Undead Eidolon) with the Reanimator archetype and later on the undead equivalent to the Beastmaster to truly invoke the feel of a necromancer with a troupe of undead at their behest. (And to likely completely cripple my action economy as a result, but that's part of the fun to me!)Seconded. Get an ancestry with a familiar and go dhampir to make it undead. SQUAD UP!! Afaik, the Lich archetype also grants an undead familiar, and the Reanimator's feats go up to exactly 12th level, which just so happens to be the same level at which you can grab the Lich Dedication, so...
According to the preview that Nonat1s posted yesterday, the Reanimator archetype inspired me to make a Summoner (possibly with the Undead Eidolon) with the Reanimator archetype and later on the undead equivalent to the Beastmaster to truly invoke the feel of a necromancer with a troupe of undead at their behest. (And to likely completely cripple my action economy as a result, but that's part of the fun to me!)
Has chapter 3 (which should be about the new creatures iirc) been previewed yet? I don't recall seeing any news about it and I was wondering if perhaps I had missed something.
This one is nothing short of hilarious, I love it!
Chapters 2 and 4 have now been assigned to the media for deep-dive previews. Great! Is there any specific time frame in which we can expect to see these previews?
As the title indicates I'm curious to see, in a similar vein to the Dark Archive PCs thread, if the upcoming Book of the Dead has inspired any particular character concepts! Personally I'm excited to bring back my mummy monk back from the days of 3.5
On the topic of alignment, I'd also like to add that, in the vampire creation rules within the Bestiary, it says "usually becomes evil". And as for Undead PCs, I agree with the sentiment that PCs typically defy expectations, and thus I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't any particular restrictions related to alignment, although it was mentioned in the spoilers that there is a sidebar called "the evil of undeath", which likely elaborates on this specific aspect of playing an undead PC.
To add to the point of the archetype's overall power, it has been mentioned in the recent Paizo Live that the Lich (Which as far as I know is the only undead archetype that can be taken from level 12 onwards, while all the other ones should be available from level 2) archetype, even with all the feats, never quite reaches the full power of a Lich for balance reasons, so I'd say it would be safe to assume that the Vampire archetype will follow a similar philosophy, even though vampires tend to be lower on the scale of power when compared to a Lich. Personally, I think the archetype will have the PC start out with the most basic traits (Undead stuff, such as Negative Healing and the trait that was mentioned in the spoilers under the product page, I think it was called Negative Survival or something like that), probably including the need to drink blood and some of the vampire vulnerabilities (For which there's going to be a sidebar, probably to help GMs deal with having a PC with particular weaknesses). As they would gain more feats from the archetype, more vulnerabilities would come along with them. As for what these feats would be, I'd guess the lower level ones could be PC-adjusted versions of the Basic Vampire abilities, such as stuff like claws as natural weapons (Maybe they could have the Grapple trait to sort of emulate the Grab ability from the monsters?). The intermediate feats could be something along the lines of gaining a (Perhaps intially limited) climbing speed, then the beginnings of shapeshifting (Think something akin to the Dhampir's Form of the Bat feat, perhaps a bit more effective given that a PC sacrifices Class Feats in order to get it). The later levels could feature the more powerful stuff (Still, with some limitations in order to preserve balance), such as the mist form (Might work as a Focus Spell version of Gaseous Form, I doubt it would cause any particular issue at that stage of the game given the stuff PCs tend to go up against), some form of the Dominate spell (Either as an innate "once per day" spell, or maybe a more limited/watered down version of it that can be used a bit more frequently) and a more focused version of the Children of the Night ability (For which I have honestly no idea how it could work for a PC, given that the ability is already pretty vague in its application in the Bestiary entry, perhaps it could be a special version of a Summon Beast spell?). As for the Damage Resistance and Fast Healing, I'm not sure if we will be seeing those abilities until the later levels, if at all. The latter especially tends to be fairly rare amongst PC options (I can think of maybe two or three instances of it off the top of my head, but I might be wrong), as with sources of self-healing in general, be it through the aforementioned Fast Healing or other abilities (such as lifesteal-like effects a la Vampiric Touch/Exsanguination), which is understandable design-wise since those abilities tend to be nightmarish when it comes to properly balancing them for PC availability.
Personally, I'm hyped about pretty much every single part of this book, from the bestiary, to the undead archetypes and the expanded Geb lore. One thing I'd like to see concerning the undead archetypes for PCs would be for them to include at least some of the more popular variants for some of them. (As an example, I'd like to see options for the vampire archetype that allow the player to play as a Nosferatu, Vetala or Jiang-shi, rather than just the typical Moroi)
As others have already mentioned, most of the playable undead (including vampires) will be available as archetypes, the level at which a player will be able to take them will likely vary since not all undead are equally strong. (For example, they hinted at a Lich archetype, I highly doubt that the archetype will be an option before the higher tiers of play) One thing I'm hoping for is that the Archetypes include at least a few of the "variants" for each playable undead, such as the Nosferatu, Vetala and Jiang-shi in the case of vampires.
Something focused on Aberrations of various sorts would be very, very interesting, especially if it delved into the more unpredictable, unknowable aspects of their nature. It could also feature aberration-hunting stuff for PCs, along for ways to interact and perhaps even be influenced by Aberrations throughout the course of an adventure. For a Fiend-centric book, aside from Devils, Daemons and Demons, I'd really like to see stuff that doesn't necessarily fit into those three and thus isn't bound by the expectations that come with belonging to one of those categories, just to see the designers can come up with. Also, this book could be a very interesting way to insert an optional "corruption" mechanic or something along those lines, where interacting with Fiends and performing evil actions tied to them could gradually have an effect on the PCs' alignment, along stuff like contracts that could grant power at a terrible cost and such. A book all about the Fey is something I've wanted for a long, long time, for some reason there really hasn't been a major release focusing on them despite being quite popular. All manners of weird, whimsical and unsettling creatures could pour out of a book like this. On the player's side of things, it would be nice to see an emphasis on the concept of promises, which is something that the Fey have quite an attachment to, perhaps an "expansion" of sorts on the Thaumathurge's feat.
This reminds me of a line in the "Create Spawn" ability from the Vampire entry in the Bestiary, which alludes to a GM-dependent cap of how many controlled spawns a vampire might have. If such a feature ever becomes available to a player character, I'd expect a more defined limitation. On that topic, one thing I would really like to see is some undead-specific downtime activities (such as the aforementioned spawning, which is listed as a downtime activity in the vampire's entry), I believe it would help to sell the fantasy of playing an undead creature.
On a topic that, for most undead, tends to coincide with slaying creatures: a lot of intelligent undead require some form of sustenance (flesh for ghouls, blood for vampires, souls for the Lich's phylactery etc.), which in turn leads me to think it might be used as a balancing factor, depending on how they plan to design the various archetypes, although I don't remember if PF2e has rules for food deprivation and the like.
Another semi-common undead feature that comes to my mind is the ability to create spawn from slain creatures, such as what happens with wights, vampires, shadows etc. I doubt that it will be included, unless as a really, really high level feat, but I think something along these lines could be accomplished by using the animal companion rules so it wouldn't overlap with other companions and bog down the game with a single player taking much longer to go through each turn.
Her personal bodyguard and servant is a Dhampir who carries her coffin on his back. She's usually resting, unless something happens that requires her explicit attention. This reminds me that in the Ancestry Guide there is a type of vampire, the Strigoi, who merely fall asleep when exposed to sunlight, which makes me curious if we will see more about them in Book of the Dead, since it was mentioned that every "classic" undead is going to have new variants. On that note, if Graveknights turn out to be an archetype, it would be cool if you could grab something of an equivalent of the ancestry "lineage" feats based on the way that the character died.
I'm for one glad to see Vampire is an option. Not that I thought it wouldn't be. But, I've a Vampird character from 1e that I was going to remake using the Dhampir Heritage, but now I don't have to. Unfortunately, I doubt there will be any way to work in her having the Eternal Youth ability or a way to make her a Small Human. So, Halfling it is. Speaking of vampires, I wonder how they will handle their need to rest inside of a coffin. I remember playing one back in the days of 3.5 (along with the glorious feeling of being a lot of levels behind the rest of the party) and having to carry my own coffin around was actually somewhat entertaining for me as an added layer of challenge.
The Incorpreal ones may be the biggest stretch. If we were to question any of their immunities and resistances, Ghost and Wraith would be the ones. I think incorporeal undead were mentioned at some point during one of the livestreams, but I can't remember which one, however I don't think they were confirmed as playable. I think they would need some fairly heavy limitations, since the incorporeal trait would allow you to bypass a lot of common obstacles. Another issue would be, IIRC, the inability to attempt Strength-based checks of any sort, alongside the issue I mentioned before with Undead trait and dropping to 0 hit points destroying them immediately.
Another thing that I've been thinking about is the Undead trait, which states that when an undead creature reaches 0 hit points it is immediately destroyed, which feels like a pretty hefty downside. If I recall correctly, only vampires and their variants can sort of get around it due to Coffin Restoration.
As more info about the Book of the Dead got revealed during the past few days, I can't help but think about how exactly do the developers plan to handle what I believe to be one of the bigger issues with undead player characters: immunities. As of Second Edition, most undead are immune to death effects, disease, paralyze, poison, sleep (or unconscious if it never rests at all), which is quite the baggage of stuff to be immune to. How do you think these immunities could/should be handled? Should they be left as is, tweaked or removed altogether?
Book of the Dead playtest is most possible. That would be interesting! I would like to know what makes you think about the likelihood of it though, and if it were to be a thing, what would you expect to be in the playtest?
My 'ancestries' I've made for ghouls and vampires have rules for both a versatile heritage for someone 'born' or starting as one. The other way is an archetype for those that become undead later on. Sounds interesting! Would you happen to have a link for them?
Another kind of PC option I hope is in book of the dead is a 2e take on the horror adventure corruption rules for characters who are becoming undead against their will and have to struggle with the way that transformation is affecting them. Yeah, that could be interesting, although I would probably do away with the whole "your character becomes an NPC at the end", as that feels more like something you should plan out with your DM, and almost none of the people I played with liked the idea of just losing control of their character, although I personally do understand why they would do it from a design standpoint, given how templates gave you crazy stat boosts back in 1st edition.
I know people have stated ghosts a few times, but I would like a particular “ghost”… the banshee. Either as an ancestry or as a sorcerer bloodline, versatile heritage, or something. That would be an interesting one to include, and speaking of how it could be implemented, I'm also curious about how the book itself will work when it comes to stuff that aren't exactly ancestries, so stuff like ghouls, vampires and liches. At first I thought they could be a type of special "heritage", but I don't think they would have enough of a mechanical impact to justify the choice, so perhaps they will be something more akin to a template of sorts?
I am hoping for an explanation that talks more specifically about how creating undead is evil in the world, but sometimes creatures who become undead are able to resist the pull to evil (allowing for some good and neutral undead heroes, without changing the whole balance of the game world.) This reminds me that, in the first Bestiary, there's a snippet talking about neutral or even good vampires, and even in the template itself it states that the creature only "usually" becomes evil, so I think that could be a hint towards what you're mentioning
Ghouls and vamps I'm happy with, and I'd like to see a somewhat generic "fleshy" undead ala zombies, and similarly for a "bony" undead for skeletons. Speaking of vampires, I hope we will see more than just the Moroi, for example I'd love to see playable Vetalarans and Nosferatu, although I guess that will also depend on how they choose to implement them, since it was mentioned that they will not be an ancestry
Currently, we know that ghouls, vampires and absolutely not skeletons are going to be available as PC options, I'm personally hoping for wights, mummies, revenants, liches and graveknights, what are you hoping to see appear as a PC option once the book comes out?
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