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Pathfinder Modules Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte 651 posts (4,884 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 32 Organized Play characters. 13 aliases.


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The Exchange

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Logan Bonner wrote:
GM Eddv wrote:

Woof.

This doesn't really feel any more simple or like it lessened the bookkeeping load at all but I appreciate that you're trying.

Simplicity and lighter bookkeeping are not the main reasons for this test. This is to see if a Charisma-based pool useful for supercharging items is fun.

You literally call out "there was too much tracking" as a reason for the previous system's unpopularity.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I have found corraling GMs to be a little bit harder but early on I made the decison not to push playtest and to keep on providing the best 1e experience I can and that's kept people on board

We are actually seeing a surge in recruitment driven by roleplaying in general getting more popular - 2e is making navigating that pretty tricky. Its ethically tricky to tell someone to go out and buy a bunch of splats when the campaign is coming to a close.

I have been pushing Starfinder more but there is a lot of anxiety about the future - but mostly its that the group wants to stay strong even if they arent all in on PFS2.

Navigating all of that (plus other off topic local issues) is going to be tricky but I am hopeful

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Oh that would be awesome Michael.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Hey all I am actually looking for SFS Player Boons.

For trade I have:
PFS Samsaran
PFS Ganzi
PFS Vine Leshy
SFS Ferran/Woioko
Various PFS player boons just ask

Wanted:
Recruited into Manifold Host
Legacy Race boon
SFS Player boons (most especially starship upgrades or 'associates' Boons)

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I want to reduce printing costs as much as possible, but I don’t see less than letter size being feasible and the need for the extra page cancels the saving out.

I want to go to bat for option 4.

If you can increase the size to playing card size the infrastructure DOES exist. Most of us play in stores that sell tons of magic the gathering supplies. Binders with playing card size slots in them exist and are conveniently available for most of us. Deckboxes/care protectors exist and can be a fun way to store characters (especially with dividers able to separate them). Even non card stock paper can do okay under these circumstances.

In this instance, we would just need a "ledger" sheet that allowed us to track XP/GOLD/PRESTIGE/FAME/PURCHASES/SALES. This ledger would become the only sheet you truly NEED to play your character and it puts all of your information in one place. I already have custom spreadsheets for this stuff in SFS and only don't in PFS because the initial labor is a bit daunting. It is, simply put, an easier way to keep track of everything.

Math:
(33 boons/9 slots per page=4+1-2 ledger sheets)

Each character could get reduced to 5 or 6 sheets TOTAL from 35 or so. That's a huge win for storage and as a bonus saves organizers money.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Option 1 is tried and true - would not be at all upset if you went this route as it allows the chronicles to serve as the log sheet for transactions which is nice.

Options 2 and 3 are unwieldy and don't fit into any existing storage infrastructure. Hard Pass.

Option 4 has advantages for both players and GMs - it is paper-efficient, storage efficient, though it does force organizers and GMs to print on card stock which is not a very Online-friendly solution

That said, I am almost smiling at the idea of having individual 'deck boxes' for my characters or storing each character in like a baseball card protector sheet depending on size. If you go this route you should definitely see about producing such things officially - a Dark Archive deckbox for my Dark Archive hell knight would rule. Especially if it can be done at a reasonable price.

Alexander hit the main issue on the head for option 4.

This approach only retains value if the boons are, well, boony enough to care about which is difficult to do when youre handing one out on every single sheet without winding up with PF1s system again (which I did enjoy but then why bother slotting?)

They are instead mostly just an unwieldy substitute for "did you play X scenario and not fail it?" and there simply has to be a better way to manage that.

The Exchange

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I feel the same Marco. Between this and the Doomsday Dawn scenario it very much feels to me like someone at Paizo is waxing nostalgic for Legacy of Fire!

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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I think the new CRPG has been pretty fun for showing this in action.

You can end up with a Groetus Cleric and a Uragthoa Inquisitor on your Neutral Good Fighters party and it will all basically work out. There will be some tension - we have had Order of the Pyre hellknights adventure side by side with Witches locally and its made for a fun RP dynamic.

Just remember not to let it turn actually hostile and it makes for a unique roleplaying experience that I highly enjoy.

EDIT: To be more clear, I don't see where less typical archetypes such as "uncompromising person who rejects witches to the point of irrationality" is all that different from the old "murderhobo" or "takes everything that isn't bolted down profitmonger" archetypes in terms of semi-objectionable behavior.

That said, your neutral with evil tendencies characters do need to remain just that. Evil with neutral tendencies is the Aspis after all :P.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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I do appreciate the confirmation by Tonya.

I think in general, auditing every now and again is healthy for the players. There have been a wild amount of shall we say subtly illegal or misunderstood game mechanics and these moments of sitting down and reviewing records have been helpful for everyone involved. It's just finding the time to do it that's the challenge.

That said, I have two legal accordion files full of chronicles/boons/etc and I would basically IMPLORE you all to develop a more paper-light system for the future.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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Good Idea.

Looking forward to running Siege of Diamond City and playing Legacy of the Stonelords!

The Exchange

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Yeah put me down for crocodile being the most disappointing option there

The Exchange

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Oh my goodness, great stuff here. Bloody Skeleton is gonna be hot.

That scarecrow bruv....

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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I am mostly concerned on whether they count as "bows" for the purposes of class feature/feats since as Skwid pointed out 'longbow and shortbow' is often shorthand for 'bow'

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Mysteries under Moonlight sounds sexy as hell. Glad to see proper multi-part adventures are back after a year off last year.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Oh man Return to Sender is exactly the sort of thing I have been waiting for!

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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Wallbanger7110 wrote:
So for characters who have already purchased the hornbow off of the chronicle, is the only effect the need to retrain Weapon Focus(Longbow or Shortbow) to Weapon Focus(Hornbow)?

A quick survey of AoN says you will also want to avoid Elven Accuracy, Deadeye Bowman, Erastils Divine Fighting Technique, and Stabbing Shot.

My theory after reading things over is that this ruling may have been intended to correct the chronicles' "or" typo but really any sort of guidance would be appreciated.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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Isabelle Lee wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Before he wouldn't have been taxed weapon focus, his weapon focus longbow would apply to the horn bow
This is incorrect, I'm afraid. Weapon Focus (longbow) is not an effect that applies to "both longbows and shortbows". ^_^

What is the intended effect of this new ruling then?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

ProfessorC wrote:
Douglas Edwards wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
What about: making level more 1 fun?

Well, that's up to the product development team.

I don't want to bog this topic down with how down I am about PFS 2, but this isn't something the OP team can do much about. If level 1 isn't fun it isn't fun.

What to do about it becomes a conversation the OPF can have.

The OP team does have say about things like how long a PC stays in first level, or designing scenarios that are fun to play at first level. The fun does not have to come from mechanics as it can come from good scenario design.

I do think that the difference between 1 and 2 in PF2 is not the huge jump that it is in PF1, so I do not believe a level 2 character is going to so outclass a level 1 character like in PF1 that the level 1 character is not fun to play. So the "abuse" of GMs starting at level may no longer be an issue.

That being said, I have only played parts 1 & 2 of the playtest or levels 1 and 4, so my opinion on 2nd level play is only backed up my reading of the of rules and not actual play.

--Chris

I have conversely been bored out of my mind in parts 1, 2, and the 2 level 5 playtest PFS scenarios.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
What about: making level more 1 fun?

Well, that's up to the product development team.

I don't want to bog this topic down with how down I am about PFS 2, but this isn't something the OP team can do much about. If level 1 isn't fun it isn't fun.

What to do about it becomes a conversation the OPF can have.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I have a Nagaji who was initially going to be the fighter class from that book now sitting around waiting for this. I then made him as a samurai, putting off taking the build options he exists to take as long as I could.... I even played him exclusively play by post so he wouldn't progress too fast.

He has now been sidelined for a couple months over Potions and Poisons not being sanctioned and my not wanting to have to retrain him.

The Exchange

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My first ever AP purchase during publishing.

This feels like a wild and bold decision but the concept here and the shorter length have me feeling like taking the plunge here!

Very excited to try this out (even if its going to be a real challenge to convert to VTT)

Can I suggest - if not including a code for a digital copy of the AP in the physical product, then perhaps a code for accessing things like pictures and maps in a clean state? Those would go a long way for me.

EDIT: I realize you do this for subscribers and I may go ahead and subscribe to the next two parts for exactly this reason, but I usually prefer to buy from FLGS when possible and its a bummer that I would need to essentially buy the product twice if I want a digital copy to complement the physical.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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I agree with Ferious - for better or worse we have landed on established practices.

I do not understand the problem that exists forcing this issue.

The Exchange

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We are pretty early yet but....does it seem to anyone else that auto-confirming criticals are adding a wildly swingy amount of damage to the game?

It really feels to me like the flow of any given battle is a lot less predictable and a lot more likely to go sideways. Enemies intended to present a challenge crumble under the weight of rogue crits (is it intentional that SA damage now doubles on crits?) and speedbump creatures like centipedes now can pose a life-threatening challenge. Seems like it will be hard to present a predictable level of challenge.

What's other peoples experience here?

The Exchange

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I agree with this.

I realize it makes it a bit easier to engage in things like social combats or chases but even just in prepping for the game I am finding the idea of having to be engaging with a subsystem at all times to be exhausting.

I do think this is an area where rules have been added that nobody asked for that make the game run more clumsily.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

D20 system is frankly way too swingy to NOT overload with bonuses.

Crit failures/successes just exacerbates what is already a mathematically poor chassis.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
WatersLethe wrote:

One thing I'm curious about, is why there was such a big push to get more damage dice rather than boosting static modifiers? Is rolling handfuls of dice for every melee attack really that important?

I kind of feel like they could have off-loaded a lot of the potency rune damage into proficiency. In fact, I wouldn't mind if it all came from proficiency and you only had to worry about neat effects on magic weapons and armor.

Either way, if damage increased with static modifiers it would be much easier to have different sources contribute without exploding the number of dice and damage.

They've taken a lot of d20s out of players hands (a number of playtest GMs literally pre rolled a very largr number of our skill checks) so I suspect they wanted players to get the satisfaction of rollibg large numbers of dice somewhere.

The Exchange

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I'm not wild about this honestly.

It feels more strait jackety than I would like compared to the free wheeling multiclassing of PF1.

It 'fixes' MCing for spellcaster but completely ruins it for martials.

Mostly it just doesn't feel like multiclassing. It does sort of feel like archetypes I guess.

I hate having to basically choose between multi classing and archetyping. I love being able to do it all.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

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I am always ALWAYS hyped to go explore the Mwangi

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Its not very strongly suggested at all by the normal course of the adventure. You have to hear rumors of the place being haunted (not guaranteed) and/or decide the evil presence is undead and then independently decide to consult some priests.

I didnt give a gold penalty either.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I also did not count the talk with Eylara against their time for similar reasons.

Our table let poor Colson die!

They were so beat up from the Banshee fight (they lost multiple party members to the wail after failing to stop it from getting its wail off) and the fight with the Gardners at half strength after failing to diplomacize their way out of it that they decided to just try to escape.

Even the fight with Citizen Dread at the end was a tactical retreat from the word go, just trying to get away from her.

I had never seen a scenario go quite as sideways as this and having such a brutal encounter first completely shaped the party's approach for everything else.

It was a nice scenario with a great mix of challenges and unlike Salvation comes by its difficulty honestly.

Well done all around.

PS - Maldris is SO dumb.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

That's a tad silly but okay.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I also have a question, what if the players go for the infiltration right away I.e. when its still night.

What do I do with Maldris?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Oh hey look a caster class that actually functions well finally.

The Exchange

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Could one of those Highdelves be for Core credit?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

My main issue is that this basically DOES seem to be the intent.

It is exceedingly rare to see a Large or Huge sized weapon that you would want to downscale and also pretty rare to see items that are specifically small sized.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I too am still missing 3 sessions.

I will try to gather what information I can, but I have already done so.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Gino Melone wrote:

Please contact the Origins Leads with specifics on the tables that weren't the best. The organizers are always interested in knowing areas that need improvement.

I actually already did, and was satisfied with the response.

I am considering going to Gen Con (I do have the days off) but I am loathe to go to a second con in a row without my wife (and she does not have the days off, plus I doubt they still need HQ help).

I may buckle though.

The Exchange

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I am not much of a fan having to spend 2 actions on item usage with fixed effects.

I do find it interesting that we have damage effects mitigated by Fort saves now though

The Exchange

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You REALLY need to simplify these RP expenditure/action expenditure rules for item usage.

These rules otherwise seem really solid but like...I feel like I need to bust out the formal logic rules to find out how to use some of this stuff and that's with a lifetime of experience playing RPGs.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

I had a great time at Origins this year (though it was my least PFS centric con attendance since the early 2010s because I only volunteered to GM enough to get my badge)

I had what I would describe as a pretty lousy time playtesting 2nd edition as the very first thing I did at the con, and had a pretty rotten time playing at the one PFS table I had as a player and consequently devoted more of my time to other hobbies this time around.

I GM'd 3 amazing tables, two with same set of 6 who had clearly come to the con together and had amazing chemistry roleplaying together, cheers to you guys, you really did make my con.

I did make sure to play some starfinder and the special and holy crap that was well done. The atmosphere for the Scoured Stars special was phenomenal and whoever did the overseer role was just stupendous as Luwazi Elsebo. I didn't think I could still be impressed with a special after the multi-table spam of the small cons these last two years but this was pretty above and beyond, excellent work all around.

Sunday morning I was a standby GM and got to play a table of Beyond Halflight path with Gino and his daughter running the game as a tandem and was the perfect sleepy way to end the con after a long 4 day run on little sleep.

Overall pretty good con, see ya in two years (I rotate origins and gen con because money).

The Exchange

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Warped Savant wrote:

Having ran a game where the party used CLW 37 times in a single session (granted, they were down the healer due to him calling in sick) I can honestly say that I'm glad used it so much.

If they hadn't done that they would've all died many times over or would've had to have at least 3 different 15 minute adventuring days.

This is the whole ball game.

The Exchange

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After talking with Ladile, I have decided I will join you!

Due to the fact that my -20 I used for this character was originally a character I tossed together for a Wounded Wisp table I will have to make an alias.

The Exchange

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I know that I personally am holding off on several potential games until I hear back from a couple lotteries and see if a 5-6 CORE table of the special turns up.

The Exchange

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Deadmanwalking wrote:


It's not broken to have to make actual decisions regarding investing resources into healing like you have to into basically every other thing you can invest resources into.

This is where we are disagreeing.

Investing into healing isn't satisfying. It feels punitive to have to dedicate build space to being able to function of a basic level. I see it as EXACTLY the same sort of thing as being forced to devote build space to stat boosts, +x weapons and armor, and save cloaks, all of which was just rightly built into the game and removed. I am honestly not sure why you don't but at least that's a clear point of disagreement.

The Exchange

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Good enough to be the healer on what scale? A 2 hour playtest game with Mark Seifter?

That's hardly enough data, and considering that we only have Mark's word for it....

The Exchange

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Each of those would need to be viable.

Given just how little resonance there is to go around, there really is just one choice unless skill healing is SO GOOD that it renders this entire discussion moot.

Either way, these aren't interesting choices. They just aren't. The whole point of this was to inject more interesting choice into the game in the form of magic items that aren't REQUIRED.

The decision to put downtime healing onto an RP cost scale undermines that entirely and results in what is effectively the same system - you get to own maybe or two interesting character specific items and the rest goes into healing yourself.

This is an easy fix and your insistence that its actually better the broken way boggles my mind.

The Exchange

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It was a worse way to play and I kid you not, this means enough to me that 5e starts to look REALLY attractive in comparison if they really insist on going this cumbersome and utterly pointless route.

This game has PLENTY of choices.

If you can choose to have healing or no healing in between combats thats no choice at all. You are going to choose healing. You keep on asserting its going to open up this magic well of interesting choices when there simply is not any choice involved here.

Its invest in a way to restore HP or die. Its as much a valid choice as building a specialized archer that lacks precise strike in 1e.

The Exchange

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Milo v3 wrote:
Why would you "NEED" to have the best wand money can buy?

Because with resonance cost you are going to want the most bang for your charge.

Like I said, this is the portion of the game that is like least fun and most cumbersome for this entire concept. Just steal resolve from Starfinder or steal 5es short rest system and call it a day.

The Exchange

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
eddv wrote:
It's literally EXACTLY the same. You no longer NEED to buy the big 6 but you will NEED to have the best wand money can buy. This is a 0 difference situation.

No. It's not. If you have sufficient in-party healing, you can skip the aforementioned Wand and have significantly more Gold for other stuff. Having a Cleric or other serious hit-point healer in the party is thus actually useful rather than completely superfluous.

That's a big change. It means that healing, like most other things, is now a matter of tradeoffs, where you can focus different types of resources in different amounts towards it.

Yes it is. The cleric using their channels OUTSIDE combat means they don't have them for use DURING combat.

This is a no difference situation other than that you might get some poor suckers to use their channels to save you a couple of RP at their own expense later.

Healing is not this like Super Fun portion of the game that is in dire need of preservation. Just a necessary one where once upon a time most tables began with trying to bribe someone into playing one because healing was both Not Fun and Necessary. Wands made it possible to get by without that and it was a MASSIVE INCREDIBLE IMPROVEMENT TO THE GAME.

You want us to go back to the dark ages because you thing Mr. Religious Crosses Magoo waving his magic hands to heal everyone is better than using item healing and I just don't get it. At all.

The Exchange

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
eddv wrote:

And this change addresses that how?

All it does is increase the amount of budget the party has to devote to healing. It literally more or less leaves the AMOUNT of healing (i.e. to full or full-ish hp) constant.

The change and difference between something being available for free (or a gold amount so low as to amount to free, which is what Wands of CLW are pretty quickly in PF1) and something being available if you invest a significant chunk of resources into it (which seems to be how PF2 will work) is actually quite large.

The latter is much easier to balance things around.

.

It's literally EXACTLY the same. You no longer NEED to buy the big 6 but you will NEED to have the best wand money can buy. This is a 0 difference situation.

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