Deianira's page

coach wrote:

oh noes!

come back!

maybe when Bard class comes into play, you will find enjoyment

NO MMO will ever match LotRO when it comes to Bards.

<sigh> I had hopes for PFO, though.

Thanks for the kind words, all. For what it's worth, PvP was NOT a factor in the group's decision. Neither was the appearance of the grass.

As my busy season winds down and I have free time again, I find myself uninterested in playing Pathfinder Online, so I'm going to take a leave of absence. I'll keep my subscription running, and Deianira accruing xp, through the end of the year. That will give me access to the GoblinWorks forum, so between there and here I'll be able to monitor the game's, and community's, development.

If I'm not back by the end of the year, I'll let my subscription lapse.

The last survey crystallized some of the issues I and my group have had with the game so far. We responded to that survey in our various ways - I think a couple of the guys included comments in SHOUTY CAPS - and as I know how these things are received on forums, I won't enumerate those issues here. Suffice it to say, with the sole (infrequent) exception of yours truly, my group refuses to play, in game or on the forums, at all.

And while the Emerald Lodge community specifically, and the PFO community in general, are great people, I really got into the kickstarter, the forums, and finally the game itself in search of a game my group could enjoy both as a small, friends-and-family team and as part of a larger game community. That's how we started out, two decades ago, and we'd like to get back to it.

But sadly, Pathfinder Online has not proved to be the vehicle for doing both of those things.

I'll keep an eye on the forums, both here and at GoblinWorks, and hope to be back. Eventually.

Deianira Sunstorm
once (and future?) bard of the Emerald Lodge

<cheers>

And because every Company needs its own anthem:

Free Settler Company
(set to "Daydream Believer")

Oh, I could live on the grounds
Of the neutral starter towns.
The politics and war I'd never see.
But I can't do much by myself,
I'm just a lonely little elf.
I've got to go and join a Company.

Cheer up, all of you.
Here is what you do.
Join the Free Settler Company
At the Emerald Lodge.

We'll have a friendly home,
And they'll let us roam alone,
And we can train at their facilities.
Oh, and they'll let us gather mats
For our armor, swords and hats.
I think I'll go and join this Company!

Cheer up, all of you.
Here is what you do.
Join the Free Settler Company
At the Emerald Lodge.

Ryan Dancey wrote:

What we really need in the short term is just a way to /mute a character and then people won't have to see offensive content while we moderate the problem. No eta though.

Sounds good. Sooner is better. Some think it doesn't require immediate attention ... I do.

I do, too, so you're not alone.

On the one hand, yay! for more write-ups. On the other hand, that's more settlements to compete for top billing with.

Does punctuality count? :-)

Rynnik wrote:

I have to express a slight disappointment I will have to leave our grounds to practice being jumped in PvP. Nice work, Boss!

No you don't, actually. Just request a univeristy event called "hunting Rynnik" with some very basic rules, and I'm sure we can help you out.

See, we need musical instruments, because what is a hunt without a proper hunting horn?!

While no one owns the nodes, you support stewardship of the land. Charging for licenses is your implementation of Kaitiakitanga, a way to create some limits, while providing a means to help support the stewards.

<happy dance>

I've learned a new word! And it's a good word, for an important concept, too.

<squirrels it away for future use>

(Yes, I'm weird, I know.)

The crowd at the Spire’s Retreat was quiet tonight. She ought to play something cheerful, get people singing. Or dancing, that usually lightened the mood. But sometimes not even the social butterfly felt happy. She took a deep breath, and stepped onto the little corner stage.

“So, now’s the time I usually cheer you up. It’s what I do. I can’t swing a sword or shoot a bow like most of you. I’m all thumbs at making things, and when I try to use my Sunstorm family gift I’m as likely to hit you as I am anything else. I’m good with words, and that’s about it.

“Well, that and dirt naps. And running, there’s that too.”

She took a practiced pause to let the ripple of laughter – subdued, of course, but there – die down.

“Life’s tough here, and dangerous, and mostly, I try to make people happy. Songs are good for that. But there’s a darker side to being a bard, and I think it’s about time I remembered that. So…

A Homespun Ditty
Come and listen to my story
‘Bout Bellows McGurk.
Fought ogres near home,
And he slept in the dirt.
As he came back
He was startled to see
“That Decius Brutus was stealing from me!”

Theft, that is. Stealing. Corpse loot.

And then Theodum tried
To be a diplomat.
Phaeros wrote back and cared not a whit.
Said “That’s what happens when you leave a husk,”
So the Lodge has banned the thief
‘Cause he’s been a bad guest.

Stole from us. On our land. From the dead.

Well, now it’s time to say goodbye
To Decius and his kind.
And we would like to thank you, sir,
To keep this song in mind.
You’re not invited back again to bank and trade with us
Until we’re satisfied that you are worthy of our trust.

Honour, that is. Courtesy. A gentleman.

Y’all can do that, y’hear?

Would you be satisfied with a PFO where everyone just farmed escalations, gathered tansy, and crafted increasingly pretty suits of armor, with no significant quantity of PVP content?

Setting aside the nonsensical nature of the question - that's not how the game was marketed or designed, and it's not the game the developers want to make - yes. I would. I had a blast in City of Heroes from beta til they shut the servers down, and its PvE content consisted basically of smashing NPC evildoers on the street, or going to a warehouse/office/cave and smashing NPC evildoers there, without even a crfting system. Fantastic community, lots of roleplay, and a generally positive experience. Unfortunately, they went the multi-server route, and the instanced door missions further isolated people.

Do you feel comfortable that if everyone on the map were playing the same way you do, there would be enough content to keep the game interesting and afloat?

Again, not the game the developers have marketed or developed. I expect you'll see things pick up once factions, resource scarcity, and penalty-free forms of PvP become more prevalent.

Have you seriously considered engaging in content creation? Have you done so? If not why not?

NOT my thing. I'm not good at PvP, never have been.

Does running away with my Flailing Kermit Arms of Panic count as content creation?

Have you seriously considered initiating hostilities with anyone who isn't NC? Have you done so? If not why not?

I haven't considered initiating hostilities, full stop. Aside from my non-PvPness, doing so would put a serious crimp in Thod's work, and that would be bad. Hell, I check with him if I'm going to post something I think would undermine his efforts.

If the NC is the sole target of all non-NC content creators, how long do you think that dynamic can realistically be expected to survive?

I don't think you need to worry about that one. Scarce resources will drive hostilities. Penalty-free faction warfare (see the new blog) will let people get their murder fix, and I'm sure other groups will come in ready to do battle for their own place in the sun. I suspect this is a temporary lull, and may simply represent:

a large number of PvE-focused players among the EE population;

a desire to learn the game, train, and craft gear before turning to PvP;

no scarcity to fight over;

most PvPers seem to be grouped together, and that limits the number of people looking to fight you.

This song has been stuck in my head for a while now, and as with many things, I woke up with the last bit suddenly there in my head. Hah!

Dire Straits' Money for Nothing, with thanks - and curses! - to Savage Grace for the title.

*****

I want my, I want my PvP...

Now look at them bandits, that's the way you do it.
You die in combat and you rez for free.
That ain't dying, that's the way you do it.
Silver for nothing and your gear for free.
Now that ain't dying, that's the way you do it.
Let me tell you them thieves ain't dumb,
Maybe get a sword cut on your cheek or belly.
Maybe lose a joint off of your thumb.

We got to get this essence and metal.
Crafted weapon deliveries.
We got to move these enchanted tokens.
We got to move this armor plus three.

See the little singer in the blue robes in the back, there?
Yeah buddy, with the tambourine.
That little lady's got her own smallholding.
That little lady, she's a bandit queen.

We got to get this essence and metal.
Crafted weapon deliveries.
We got to move these enchanted tokens.
We got to move this armor plus three.

I should've learned to shoot and stab things.
I should've learned to sneak and run.
Look at that merchant, he got the money and the jewels.
Man, we could have some fun.
That guy up there, what's that? Some kind of peace talks?
Sounding like a carebear means more stuff for me.
That ain't dying, that's the way you do it.
Get your silver for nothing and your gear for free.

We got to get this essence and metal.
Crafted weapon deliveries.
We got to move these enchanted tokens.
We got to move this armor plus three.

Now that ain't dying, that's the way you do it.
You die in combat and you rez for free.
That ain't dying, that's the way you do it.
Silver for nothing and your gear for free.

As long as I can wander down to the taverns of an evening, I'm happy.

LOL. So you can gank to your heart's content in the town of Rotter's Hole but don't start a barfight?

Hey! Don't damage the whisky!!!

Number 4! Yay!

This sentence in their write-up is of particular interest, given the discussion going on right now:

The tricky thing about creating a huge MMO based on an existing property is balancing the fan-service for existing fans with appealing to players that may not be as familiar with the franchise.

But it is currently very easy to make people feel they have no place here.

This. So, so, so much this.

To fight, or not to fight, that is the question -
Whether 'tis easier in rhe hex to flee
The spells and arrows of the ravenous horde,
Or to stand firm against invading armies,
And by defending, beat them? To fight, to die -
That's sure; and by a death, to say we rez
And run back, and then gather our possessions
Less what bandits took? 'Tis an evening's outing
Devoutly to avoid. To fight, to die,
To die, perchance to lose; Aye, lose our stuff,
For in that loss at death, what wasted time,
When we have staggered back to safety
Must give us grief.

I’ve avoided posting in PvP threads, but I thought it might help to have the opinion of a non-PvPer who (a) invested probably more than I should have in the Kickstarter and (b) is enjoying the game.
First, some background. I’ve been playing tabletop, starting with D&D, since 1978. I’ve been playing MMOs since 1995, starting with AOL’s Neverwinter Nights. (I think we could have as many as 200 people logged in at once. Whoo hoo!)

Also of note: my brother’s an avid, cutthroat, and apparently excellent PvPer. So I’ve been having this discussion for twenty years now. We’ve never convinced each other, and we’re related and love each other dearly, so the chances of either side convincing the other here on the forums are pretty small.

I identify myself as a non-PvPer, and not an anti-PvPer, because I’ve enjoyed both large-scale combat (DAoC) and purely in-character combat (CoH); both of those were loads of fun. What I’m not fond of is small-scale, “surprise!” PvP. Because the one who gets surprised is me, and I’m not good at PvP, so it’s run or die. That’s not fun.

I stare at spreadsheets and think analytically all day long – gaming is for the creative, social side of my brain. PvP is neither of those things for me.

I don’t play MMOs to be competitive. I don’t min/max; I build to a character concept. I don’t read guides; I log in and play. I don’t care about being the best. I hang out with people I like, and roleplay. I don’t want a lecture – however well-intentioned – about what I did wrong; if it’s important to my enjoyment of the game, I’ll ask or I’ll figure it out, but otherwise, it’s just not something I care deeply about.

I game to have fun, and I stop gaming when it’s not fun. Playing in Golarion? Fun. Building a home in the wilderness? Fun. Eventually manning (womanning?) the barricades of my settlement against a rival settlement? Fun. Exploring, fighting monsters, hanging out IC in the tavern? Fun, fun, fun. Fighting a duel (which I will undoubtedly lose) in character? Potentially fun. Spending my two precious hours a night (if that) happily doing one of those things only to be surprised and either dying, or paying protection money? Not fun. Will never be fun. I can still enjoy the game – am enjoying the game - as long as the un-fun bits don’t outweigh the fun ones, but all the practice, arguments, and helpful hints in the world aren’t going to make me enjoy those un-fun parts. Silk purse, sow’s ear, you get the drift.

So far, the game is fun, and I’m happy to keep playing. Not that I’ve been doing a whole lot of that, as I’m swamped at work – worst time of year for me to be starting a new game! – but when I’m online, I’m having fun. Which, really, is the point of the thing.

There may be no solution to the Great PvPvPvE Debate that makes everyone deliriously happy, because – for better or worse - the game appeals to very different play styles and very different personalities. I don’t think there are enough of either yet to make a go of the game alone. So both sides are going to have to make EE work at this point – but we’re not going to get there if we continue to insult each other or talk past each other or talk down to each other. And we’re not going to get there unless both sides at least try to understand each other’s point of view.

I'm not ashamed to say I sat at my desk and cried about this earlier. Spock was my childhood hero.

"One bucket full of Emerald Spirit again – oh – and please catch me a new rat."

At the words, Deianira glanced up from her notes - that last stanza's phrasing just would not come right - in time to see Theodum dash over to the cellar door, most of their Emerald Spirit apparently sloshing in the bucket he clutched. She shook her head. Just like Donal back at the Two Swans. Perfectly normal one day, then drinking his body weight in liquor the next. Next would be the running around in his smallclothes, and canceling the play - er...

Clearly Theodum was overworked. Sighing, she blotted the unfinished lyrics dry, gathered up her bag, and went off to find Baron. Or Diltig, or... well, someone..

Mine was:

I'm actually glad he brought it to the forum. The things one finds humourous (or not), and the things one finds enjoyable (or not) in-game are pretty good indicators of the sort of fellow gamers one will work best with. It's been an eye-opening, and very helpful, read for me.

It nudged past this one by a nose:

I'd very much like the ability to adjust bust size on my female characters, or at minimum to be able to choose a slender shape that hasn't apparently gotten implants. I'm very tired of not being able to play as anything other than Busty McBustier!

So make of that what you will.

"Quirkiness and RP". I can go with that!

1113!

<does the Snoopy happy dance>

Welcome, all you February explorers!

1. Yes!

2a. Stations for interested people to try out the game - maybe alongside an experienced player or even better a developer. I like Ravenlute's idea of grouping everyone up for monster hunting.

2b. A dedicated gathering spot so we can meet each other face to face. This is separate from a panel or seminar; Pathfinder Online is a very social game, and I'd just like the chance to socialize with the people (players and developers) I've been talking to on the forums for the past couple of years.

2c. A presentation on the development timeline. (Caveats here, obviously, nothing is set in stone, etc.). Q & A session. Lots of time to chat with staff.

Now, a couple of questions, as I've never been to PaizoCon: It's in Seattle, yes? (hoping so, as I've never been there). What hotel should I make reservations at? And where would locals recommend I go to do touristy things before or after the convention?

I hate to see you go but look forward to seeing you in the River Kingdoms! Best of luck in your next position!

*looks at title*

Yup, no way THIS is going to be slanted. (I will read it later, when I can catch more than a spare moment).

It's by a non-PvPer. This bit pretty much sums up my approach - to life as well as gaming:

I game by a “Do Unto Others” sort of mentality. I try not to treat folks in a way I wouldn’t want to be treated myself. I don’t want to be ganked while trying to achieve my PvE goals, so I’m not going to do that to someone else. That’s just how I roll.

I don't know.. I think the new player experience needs to be pretty high priority. It's the reason I gave up on Alpha and nearly gave up on EE as well. If I didn't find a good group of very helpful players (7th veil/Phaeros) I likely would have left again. People who give up on a game often don't come back because of that first impression. I'm willing to bet turnover at this point is still far higher than it needs to be. There are some really big bang for the buck items that could make the new player experience much better, namely gating feats and some better UI guidance on keyword matching. Tutorials can be lower priority.

Agreed. I still haven't talked two of my crowdforger guild players into starting the game - and my nephew still hasn't upgraded his pledge to EE level - because they've watched the rest of us struggle to make sense of all the options. Yes, there are guides, but for a lot of players, reading a guide just to figure out how to make a halfway competent character is a huge turnoff. Gating feats, grouping them better, explaining keyword matching, anything to make people who hate having to read guides stick around long enough to get hooked would help.

I can't give up the PM function here. Also, I like seeing the post originator and last poster/time of last post. Spoiled, I suppose, but there you have it!

Sigh. The more I play Deianira, the more random phrases get in my head. It wouldn't be so bad if I could actually sing IRL. Anyway, KC, your very own refrain:

Daydream Kobold Believer

Cheer up, solo team.
Oh what can it mean
To a kobold believer
And a spell-slinging queen...

Nudging so other see and read this. I am in awe, Theodum!

I'm picturing a Carmen Miranda getup, not a loincloth.

Such threads are never complete without the obligatory lecture by the annoying peasant.

I'll just be over here lobbing scimitars at you. Carry on!

Yes, I stopped to admire the sunset in the woods last night.

I'm not the only one!!! It wasn't last night, but yes, I've stopped to watch the sunset. And the sunrise.

Ravenlute wrote:

Merkaile wrote:

It would be nice to have a statistic skew of the total numbers to account for spies!

Spies are everywhere. There's not just one, but two under your desk right now.

You can pretty much guarantee if there is only one of you in a company then one of you is a spy.

The tricky part when spying on yourself is not letting yourself know that you are a spy.

It would be far easier if all apies in game where required to use the name Natasha, typed in Cyrillic and spoke with a Russian accent.

Moose and squirrel.

Tricksy, tricksy resource nodes!

Now, if the former coal mine has undergone enough pressure to start producing diamonds, I could get behind that. Diamonds are a girl's best friend, after all!

If it weren't Saturday I'd be there to make songs about it. (And die a lot while trying to capture the action in (bad) verse, but still.)

I've posted a summary of much of the initial work (code of conduct, requirements, definition, etc.) on the GoblinWorks forum here. In keeping with Paizo's and GoblinWorks' request, let's continue discussion over there.

Lifedragn wrote:

My problem is I forgot my ideascale password and have been too lazy to reset it -.-' Which is entirely my fault.

Exactly the same issue, here.

I really hate having to make accounts all over the place in order to participate in this sort of thing. Can't we just have one place for everything?

Yes, please.

I'm aware I'm a technologically-challenged dinosaur <waves AARP card menacingly> but I've never used Ideascale. Or Google Docs. (And yes, I remember using punch cards to input programs, you young whippersnappers!). I'm perfectly happy to contribute - to babble on at length, in fact - but I really don't eant to have to go to multiple places to do so.

What they need to put in ASAP is the world chat feature back in, and a recruitment channel, as well as a company and settlement channel. With these options, I do believe we will see a large spike in population increases within the settlements.

I second this! I haven't played much - still finding the wealth of skill options confusing, and I spend a LOT of time going back and forth trying to figure out what "makes sense" for Deianira to have (OK, I'm a thematic player and not a min/maxer, so sue me), but hex chat has been eerily silent whenever I've been on. I've been shouting into the void... much like most of the non-cap zones in WoW, come to think of it.

Yes, I know, voice chat and all that. But looking ahead to brand new players joining, we really need to have the ability to welcome them, answer questions, etc. without having to sit in starter hexes.

@Hobs,

Sorry to see you go. :(

@Thod,

Thanks for offering the EL as a place for a guide program to set up shop, it makes a lot of sense.

@Deianira,

T7V offers their TS info at every possible mention/at the drop of a hat for almost all community and new player discussions. I REALY should write it down somewhere. (Grin)

I would love to be an active participant in a guides program, but at this time RL commitments does not allow me the time; but I would like to "stay in the loop" as I am interested in the program.

Excellent! Should we try for Wednesday night at 8 EST? I'm usually fairly flexible with days (except weekends), but this week Wednesday's my only free night.

In my opinion, as someone who made a living for over a decade doing graphic design for a publishing house, the graphic artists for PFO have been working to capture a style that I appreciate. I acknowledge that they have a long way to go to make it what they want, and I don't require that everyone like that style, any more than I'd expect all of my friends to like Dali. That does not make Dali "worse" than Matisse, and does not make the graphics of PFO "worse" than those of WoW 11 years ago. They are concerned with different things, they have different methods and budgets and goals, and they have devoted...

Off-topic, but if you like Dali you should visit the Salvador Dali Museum in St. Petersburg, Florida. I'm not a huge fan of Dali, and I loved it.

1. If you ever plan on being part of a team, DO NOT give yourself a long name!! Makes it too hard to invite you to the team.

[Saw someone whose last name was something like Treefarkinbarckles]

<sigh> So I guess "Deianira Sunstorm" will bug people?

... OK, yes, I will, and probably for many reasons, but I meant the length of the name.

Check with your state's National Guard - most, if not all, have a foundation for assisting returning vets.

Is there anyone full able and mentally stable looking at this game I sometimes wonder by the litany of ailments:) Speaking as an hfa myself

I'm sitting here nursing a sprained ankle and simultaneously loopy on sinus meds. This made me giggle.

Small text is difficult for me to read, and I'm on an iPad not a cellphone.

Also, the white text on the green and orange backgrounds is terrible for me. I realize it's my eyesight (aging is hell... and oh joy, I get to have cataract surgery next spring!), but black text on those backgrounds would offer better contrast for the vision-impaired.

Can I just point to Dogan's post? In particular, this:

TL;DR - GW needs to deliver the content and features most beneficial to keep their core user base excited about the game. I posit that it is actually meaningful PvE content, and not player Politics and Wars, that is most needed early in the PfO's life-cycle. Put another way, predators need prey. Attracting only the wolves won't make for an interesting world. Get some sheep, the wolves will follow.

I haven't been around much lately as I'm not much of an alpha tester. More troublingly, I'm not that enthused about playing, and I can't get any of my group (except hubby, and then only grudgingly) to log in with me. We're all MMO veterans, and tabletop veterans going back close to 30 years; we tend to stick with one game, and one community, for years. We should be excited about playing in Golarion, but we aren't (not even me, and I've been hanging around the forums for going on two years now), and I think it's a combination of things that tie back to Dogan's post.

Please follow Dogan's suggestion. Make exploration, PvE and trade compelling. Add the extensive PvP bells and whistles after we've figuratively and literally rooted ourselves in the landscape.

Getting the permanent forums up and running would help as well.

(Edit: OK, cheating a bit by editing this in, but a very BIG thank you to Cheatle for starting this thread!)

Schedim wrote:

...I have the hand-eye coordination of a MBT driven by a drunk sloth... that suffers from dementia

My long-lost twin!

Triplets!

There is also the hope that for a Crafter/Trader like me, I can take *calculated* risks in PFO, and try to minimize them till a level that is still fun.

I am not sure if the level of PvP is still a little ( or a lot) on the hard side with the games you mention.

These are key points for me as well. (Substitute bard/writer for crafter/trader, though.) I'm just dipping a toe into the sandbox experience with PFO and that's mainly down to GoblinWorks' explicit commitment not to turn PFO into a murder sim, and their efforts to allow individuals to, as Tyncale puts it, calculate and minimize risk to our taste.

I have pretty crappy reflexes and reaction time, so combat against another person, where there is no time built in to let me assess the situation is both humiliating and unproductive for me. I do, however, appreciate interactions with other players, trading, negotiating, planning. My ideal PvP encounter involves no combat whatsoever.

That said, I fully appreciate that having a rich field of capable opponents will lead to a better experience, and I understand that means that I'm going to lose some of my stuff to people who want to take it from me rather than spend a large amount of time getting it other ways.

I don't expect I'm ever going to like that, because I don't expect I'll ever be more than merely competent with my combat, but I will make the decisions I need to in order to enjoy life as best I may.

This. Very much this.

Let's not go down this road. It's a relief to have "sexy" NOT be the female default, and I agree wholeheartedly with thanking the devs for it, but discussion of who's to blame for it is going to go to unpleasant, flame-y places.

What does PnP stand for in this context? I only know Plug and Play, and it doesn't seem to fit.

Pen and paper.

And as someone who has played nothing but themeparks and tabletop, I have zero problems with the timed xp gain; in fact, it'll be nice to be able to indulge in my usual stop-and-smell-the-roses playstyle and not find out everyone I know has powerleveled past me.

(Note: many will no doubt have made min/max choices that put my "does this make sense for Deianira?" training style in the shade, but that's a different animal.)

I don't do reddit...or facebook for that matter..or twitter...

I'll stick to the forums..

<hug>

I thought I was the only non-facebooking, non-tweeting dinosaur out there!