Okay, I'm sorry to come in on a tangent, but I do think this should be addressed. Are Undead Evil
The Undead hunger eternally in Golarion, and so if they are raised and released, the necromancer would be to blame. Such as the digging the ditch, and letting it wander off scenario mentioned above... The act of disinterring a corpse, while gruesome and a social stigma, I think is not evil, (No more evil than putting the body there through axe-work or swordplay) and using magic to make a skeletal worker/warrior is (to me) no different than summoning a monster to do the work for you (without a time limit). I can show that this isn't causing the soul any harm, in some circumstances. circumstance 1 An adventurer is slaughtered, and the team cannot recover all of the body, so they grab a piece, a rib for example. Rushing back to the temple the cleric meditates and casts Resurrection on the deceased. The adventurer is restored to life. The rest of the body becomes animated as the big bad necromancer is cleaning his slaughterhouse. Does the adventurer all of a sudden start screaming in agony as his soul is pulled from his new living body back into his old decaying corpse to serve as the energy that makes it walk? No. The adventurer will feel violated when he finds out that his old body is wandering around being a pack mule, but his soul is not in the equation. circumstance 2 There is no rule stating /human/ corpses are the only ones that may be animated with the animate dead spell. So if I kill a chicken, and eat it, then I reanimate its skeleton to carry something (a scroll or letter) to one of my teammates. It will go straight there and straight back, and then I will destroy it. Is that evil? The soul of the chicken will not be held in limbo for all of eternity, because it is animated by /NEGATIVE ENERGY/ which is what the spell states, not the soul of the chicken... which was too weak to light a match, its animated by the spell which created it. I agree that the spell may be marked as /evil/ by its descriptor, but I also disagree with it. Also, who cares if it is /evil/? I raise the corpse of a fallen ally, to charge into an orphanage, rescue a few children, and come back to me. We walk to the abbey where the cleric lives, and then I kill the corpse so my ally can be reanimated. Did I do something evil? according to the gods yes. according to me. I did what I had to, and if the gods wish to weigh my soul and bring up the fact that I made my fallen ally into a monster, I will tell them to ask the orphans whose lives were saved if they would have preferred to die and I simply walk past instead. I think having Gods who despise necromancy and the undead is fine. and if the gods want to punish me for having done so, I have no problem with that. But simply raising a creature to carry my bags, should not put me in the same boat as... murderers, thieves, and people who commit atrocities against people simply because of their race. (the rest of the party) -Death Keeper
"Hello, miss, I am Antonius Moretti, I worship Iomedae, Irori, Sarenrae, and Erastil first and foremost, but all deserve respect." he answers civilly, with a soft voice. Antonius has a recurved steel bow, heavy armor, and a strange curved bladed sword, but this is offset by a light smile and a short blond hair Sure, I'm good with that, We definitely could totally have a shared backstory.
Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
Battle-gardener no, a friendly battle-gardener... with a trowel sidekick
Thats why I've been arguing against the concept of "take whatever levels you feel like, you don't have to RP" I agree, and actively fight against the message he is trying to send... In other news Matthew Downie, thejeff, and Jerry Wright 307, I think we should totally play in a campaign together at some point.
Anzyr wrote:
Perfect. To answer your statement/questions in order. Why do they need to justify it more than a fighter taking another level in fighting? Because they are doing something inherently different than what they have shown me before. I am a fighter, I wear heavy armor and swing a sword... "Okay, what does your next level do?" I fight, wear armor and swing a sword... "Okay, that makes sense." "Wizard, what do you do?" I master the secrets of the arcane and cast spells, "Okay, what does your next level do?" Shoot guns. "Ummmm... where did you get this knowledge of gunplay?" The game allows me to do this. I just want to shoot stuff. (This is the noise of shattering the carefully constructed suspension of disbelief I have spent the past ten gaming sessions creating.)
Anzyr wrote: Why can't the GM just work something in when it happens, since evidently their the only one that's bothered by it? Anzyr, are you a GM? A GM works to make a cohesive world which has at least a dozen hidden parts under the surface, that is the GM's Job. The players job is not to play, counterintuitively, it is to create a Character, whom the player controls. Why is it my responsibility to bend backwards to allow character to do something this character would have no way of doing with what they have shown me in an RPG?
Anzyr wrote:
Is this a RP situation? I Stated... "If the character has expressed no interest in what they suddenly are now crossing into... like a totally magic-hating barbarian suddenly gaining a level in wizard... I would say no." Because the above is RP clashing with Rules. Rules state that Yes, I can take my magic-hating barbarian and take a level in wizard at the drop of a hat, but it completely breaks the RP of the character... Now if my character RP'd the gaining of trust of magic and interest in it. there is no problem, he can now become a wizard... So lets put it in the terms you require... a wizard becoming a gunslinger... A wizard who has done NO Roleplaying of any type in the direction of wanting to become a gunslinger. No looking for mysterious men who wield guns. No asking gunsmiths how a gun work, No talking to alchemists or scholars on what makes a gun work. Just all of a sudden. "BAM! I am a gunslinger now." I, as a DM, would say... where have YOU, as a character, ever shown any inclination to becoming a gunslinger? and they would not have an answer for me... I'm not asking for an essay, I'm not requiring anything more than for them to role-play. I see no problem in requiring a person to Role-play... in a Role-Playing Game.
golem101 wrote:
This. All of this. I have noticed a lot of fighting, and GM can do this, and GM can't do this, and This would hurt this player's story, That would hurt the Gm's campaign... But a lot of that is just talking about the way that people try to explain their side of the /ARGUMENT/ Players should respect their GM and accept "No" as a legitimate answer when they ask, "can I do this?" Game Masters should allow their players Creative Freedom and understand that since this is a creative group setting, things may fall outside of what they expect, and if it does not overtly harm the campaign, they should allow this to happen. Mostly what should happen is a group agreement. PCs, try to make your GM happy, because the GM is being the one keeping all the plates spinning in this circus act. GMs, don't be too strongarmed when trying to keep your campaign on the rails, and if all else fails, explain your stance. "Sorry guys, but I don't have anything planned out for this area so nothing interesting happens." or the belovedly honest "I have no idea, let me get back to you" but don't let your PCs bully you with "rules state, arguments" as a GM you can say, "the rules state that you can do that, but I am not going to allow this because... x, y, and z." This is a cooperative game, and people should COOPERATE.
Drock11 wrote:
Cuuuuuuuurse you! I blame Cosmo for my inability to escape him.
I blame cosmo for being undead. I blame cosmo for the fact that the undead do not eat, or sleep. I blame cosmo for not having remembered to take the desires and fatigue away... The perpetual hunger and maddening deprivation of sleep have driven me insane. I blame Cosmo for not allowing me to slake my hunger and thirst, and then curl up and nap in the empty shell of the corpse that I have eaten the viscera out of... The simple pleasures of life have been denied to the dead... it is not fair, cosmo, why have you forsaken me?
Rysky wrote:
I blame Cosmo for the temporary lapse in judgement... I will switch blame to Cosmo for it having took so long AND that my mind is scattered
I blame Cosmo for not yet having a full party for the low level horror campaign I want to run. The campaign is called Hosmer Manor, and the recruitment is here I will rescind blame if this problem ever resolves itself.
Grushdeva du kalt misht
GM_Remnant wrote:
60ft tremorsense... your stealth is not worth anything. its an automatic notice unless you are flying or you have an ability
Grushdeva du kalt misht
Icehawk. The 2 round summon Monster IS NEVER more valuable than a living, breathing, THINKING player. You. Will be around for the entire campaign. The Eagle. Is only going to be around to scratch goblin ears and flutter about in the sky. You, level up. the bird, puffs into smoke
Grushdeva du kalt misht
Just for help, it's best to divide into initiative blocks Round 1 Block A
Block B
Block C
The players XYZ post whenever they can and resolve in order of posting You post for frogs Player F goes, You post summary of round Start again :)
returns to lurking
image Psion (Psychometabolist) 7, HP: 70:, CMB: 3+2, CMD: 10+3+6 (=8 vs Trips)
Dotting to read this awesome campaign
Vicon wrote: Most Respectfully Death Keeper, I am not sure you're going to be the best fit for this game. It pains me to say no to anyone (if I did would I be trying a game concept this crazy and wish-oriented?) and my first instinct was to write a four-paragraph itemized explanation of why I think we'd be a bad fit... until I decided a tirade of that sort might bias how other folks behaved in a sandbox game that prioritizes player agency. But I will make it short: Okay I understand, you cannot accept everyone into this game, because you want to keep the game detailed and tight, rather than starting off with so many characters... Especially when one of them has an idea that doesnt mesh as well as the others. Vicon wrote: 1) Attention to detail is lacking. Not your fault as I post SO MUCH. this will be great for me creating an immersive world, but not for us navigating the difficult char. creation process. I'm sorry that I didnt get involved in this when I first saw it instead of waiting... otherwise I could have created much more detail... before this message I had been posting solely from my phone between classes... Vicon wrote: 2) I don't see the "Squish" -- discussion of essential weakness is UBIQUITOUS in the thread. To miss it tells me we're a bad fit. Lack of social skills is not a weakness if your character never intends to talk in the first place. This was the primary reason I wanted to get feedback, so that I could edit in such a way as to fit in more with the campaign, but now that will be unnecessary Vicon wrote: 3) while it's possible potentially to be tanky, there is emphasis stated that this game will hopefully embrace dynamics of tyranny, power, exploration, and the gathering of knowledge. Not really evinced in your concept. I'm sorry, I was wanting to create a more bestial, and forceful creature that gained more of the tyrannical and control everything in sight as time went on and it realized just how large that the world is. Vicon" wrote: No indictment on your part, I am just confident, in all my years of GMing -- who I can make happy, who I can't, and the relative cost. I'm really glad you think it's a cool idea, and I hope when it gets going it meets your expectations of that interest. When it gets going, I will gladly dot the thread and read up on it, though it looks like I will not be taking an active role. I am sorry that I ended up wasting your time instead of adding to your game. If anyone ever drops out or loses interest, send me a PM, I'll see if I can change Ckkxxchtki to make him mesh... [tips hat] Its a great idea Vicon, hope it works
Okay a little about me, hi I'm death keeper, I play in Lynora's Avalon Academy, a sixteen level rules light Gestalt game where everyone is more or less hormonal. Teenagers with no self control. That game has 15-20 players and 1-200 posts per day.I enjoy stealth and complex thinking, as well as tactics. :) Sorry about presumption I'll have what you asked for tomorrow or the next day.
Wouldn't You like to Know?
Aanandareavekki wrote:
Clicks tongue... "You shouldn't snap at a messenger before the message is delivered..."The wearer frowns as his face slowly shifts into Vares
A fighter tromping through a barrage of spells, nothing but his own hardy endurance and willpower, his training he spent all those gruelling hours upon days upon years on paying off as he just. Keeps. Going. Ignoring the power that by all rights should have erased his soul. Shattering the boulder falling from up high with a single stroke of his sword. Walking through the burning oil and crossing the acid pits thrown up by his opponent in a desperate attempt to stall him. Climbing the mountain and shattering the magical walls of force that guard the citadel there. At it's heart, slice open the final gate that leads to beyond reality itself, to face down the man that evoked his wrath. Breaking through the illusion that tries to blind him to the truth, the truth in the form of the man responsible for the deaths of his wife and children. The man he once called friend. "How?" the wizard asked, not understanding. The blade flashes, a head rolls, and the fighter turns ready to leave, his quest done. Yet, he stops once right before leaving the room. "While you were learning the first words of the arcane, I was training. While you were meddling with the secrets of the deeper universe, I was training. While you were divining the streams of fate, I. Was. Training. I did not know what for until I found them. Dead. Dead by your hand, misguided as it was. All my life I have dedicated myself to the art of combat, the art of becoming stronger, faster, or simply better at killing the one in my way. In a way that made me envious of you. I can only destroy where you could build. Yet for some reason although you called me the fool for dedicating myself to the art of destruction, it was you, who dedicated himself to the art of creation, that destroyed so much more than I ever have." W
Zix wrote: Zix's mental voice sounds amused as he goes about continuing what he was doing, examining the wards :: traditionally I believe, it is concidered rude to talk to someone without introducing oneself, or am I wrong, here I'll start, I am zixoppautal. And I teach abjuration, warding and defensive battle magic at the Avalon academy, though I suspect much of this you may have already known:: ::so I am rude, zixoppautal... how are you today?::
Grushdeva du kalt misht
♣♠Magic♦♥ wrote:
Wet road. Rediculously sharp curve.... its pretty far from where you live... so no worries... PS nobody was hurt
Male Human Rogue 16/Magus 9
True Seeing:
He is wearing a blank white mask icehawk333 wrote:
Hmmm.... I take it you are supposed.to be the next..... order." Renkai isn't too concerned
Grushdeva du kalt misht
Ranma: Soup, Akane. How did you manage to burn soup? You'd better hope the EPA never finds out about you... Akane: You could have at least tried it! Ranma: Tried it? It was on fire! The bowl was melting! And I didn't like the look of that portal the fumes were forming... Akane: It was only a tiny portal. And the chanting wasn't that ominous... Ranma: Damnit, Akane, good cooking isn't supposed to break the laws of reality! (And I thought that /I/ Had seen some bad cooking)
Male Human Rogue 16/Magus 9
True Seeing:
He is wearing a blank white mask Melody Waverider wrote:
Be worried after he meets Deception's Champion.... The descriptions I have to give are... frightening...
Male Human Rogue 16/Magus 9
True Seeing:
He is wearing a blank white mask Lang Fei wrote:
1d20 + 16 + 3 + 2 + 4 ⇒ (19) + 16 + 3 + 2 + 4 = 44Intercepted message "No, You cannot hel..." Renkai stops and thinks.... "can you take a message to someone for me?"
Grushdeva du kalt misht
Tybalt Baneko wrote: Benders aren't required to max out their ranks in bending either though. but spellcasters hardly ever do... not to mention the two classes get different number of skill points... because after a certain point the spellcaster goes... "I take ten and know about all the spells that can possibly be cast by a non deity..." whereas the bender goes... "if I put more points into bending... I can now make my lightning bolt hit 5 people as well as light my cigarette"
Male Half-Elf Gestalt: Cleric 6, Holy Vendicator 10, Paladin 16
Voice of Awesomeness wrote: I'm EXHAUSTED, so I will wrap up this scene tomorrow. Yrrin, despite how long it took for which I apologize, I hope the battle was badass enough for ya Sounds good, I'll just chat with buttercup, and it was... better than I could have hoped to do... (but I really didn't need to know about my father's sex life... *Shudder*)
|