So, I'm curious if anyone here has personally done any research with Nocticula or Shamira? I mean, patronage of such famous individuals would go a long way towards helping the... prestige of research!
All future research involving Nocticula has run into a tiny little roadblock. Having unlimited cosmic power makes quantified data difficult to acquire.
James Jacobs wrote:
....There's plenty of other options even just among demon lords and their kind—Shamira, Zura, Socothbenoth, Shax, and Mestama are all potentially good choices for disenfranchised Nocticulans to change faiths to....
So does this mean Shamira is Nocticula's successor as Queen of the Succubi and Mistress of the Midnight Isles? How's Sarenrae handling that news if true?
James Jacobs wrote:
Does Nocticula have any children, philosophically or otherwise? Or is the position of "Queen of the Succubi" more political/conquest-based rather than being something linked to a qualifier like 'first' or 'oldest' Succubus?
James Jacobs wrote:
Considering the demands and expectations upon a herald of a deity, and a runelord's champion, could the same being serve both roles simultaneously? Is there anything preventing a situation where an NPC is both Nocticula's Herald, and Sorshen's champion(and wielder of Asheia)?
In an ask James thread, it was stated that Sorshen is generally amused by a PC in a clone body(either from that trap, or the campaign trait). In this book, during part 3,
Sorshen seems quite the extroverted playful social creature, however she is not looking like herself due to the agents against her. Would she want the PC-clone to disguise herself as well? Would the Peacock cultists still wait until Midnight to attack with a PC-clone running around all evening?
I picture Sorshen being quite content letting the PC-clone be the fall-girl body-double. I also get the feeling she'd not be above playing 'twin shenanigans' with the other party goers(think "Freaky Friday" type pranks).
The Clone PC is the target for scrying, and has a -10 penalty to the Will save due to the link between her body and Sorshen's. I'm not sure how much chance a level 6/7 PC has in making an effective DC 42 Will save.
I'll volunteer for that test Crimson!
Would this need to be in a PbP forum, or the PF2 Playtest forum?
It looks like enervation 1 is automatic with each kiss, and it's a DC 21 will save to avoid being affected by a suggestion to submit to me. Though I can't tell if there'd be a penalty for the suggestion being something you'd already be willing to do.
James Jacobs wrote:
And here, some of us had the mental image of Nocticula and Sorshen lounging in the Eye of Desire sipping margaritas while chatting about redemption paths.
Flurry of Blows uses unarmed strikes, while Passionate Kiss is an offensive ability. As a GM, I'm not quite sure if I'd house-rule it or not, though I like the idea of a 'making out' trick for a succubus monk, give up the other actions to do multiple kisses in a round, maybe with a bite attack? (Which the Succubus totally needs, 1d4-1, non-lethal, piercing and counts as an act of passion for Passionate Kiss).
Ha! I think it would be great to have (or be) a GM who approves the Accidental Clone trait for the entire party! That is a fun one.
That would make for a very awkward meeting with the original herself.
On another note, Redeemed Nocty!!! Makes me so happy! I looked at her domains granted and my first thought was "Mid-2000's goth" and giggled. Now the question is, who is the new Queen of the Succubi(Not Sorshen???), and is there any meaning behind a seven pointed star crown in her symbol? Nocticula, patron deity of Sorshen's New Thassilon???
James Jacobs wrote:
Wait, does this mean that
The Runelord's schools are shuffling, or are being taken over? Taking a closer look at the Sorshen picture(who didn't...) Is that a coin-purse in her hand and Karzoug's ponytail on her guisarme???
This sounds like a job for that Half-succubus Merfolk Boreal-Sorceress I rolled up.
The Fiend Fantastic wrote:
Grapple = Grabbing onto someone and doing some wrasslin'Cuddling and Hugging = rolling a nat 1 on your CMB check.
And that little discovery just might make certain encounters trivial.
In Rise of the Runelords, when you need to get the component to make a Dominant weapon, instead of killing the succubus Mistress or gambling on saves, just use a Wish or Limited Wish to get a few minutes of immortality, rendering you immune to the Energy Drain effect, and then enjoy the 2d10 rounds of 'payment'.
Well well well, while getting ready for the testing, I just noticed, the energy drain RAW states "mortal", not "target". This brings up some interesting complications for and against existing arguments.
All too often BBEGs have immortality, therefore would not qualify as 'mortal'. Also, I believe a couple APs are broken by this, due to the energy drain being the specific challenge to deal with despite immortality/non-mortality.
I believe we shall. Are you preordering the Playtest, or just going with the PDF?
I wasn't aware you had lost the concession stand rights, but if you wish to renegotiate your fee...
If the said succubus drinks an elixir of sex shift while grappling, do they turn into an incubus?
Outsiders do not have a specific gender, Demons don't as well, made of Abyssal whatever, that determines how they reproduce or spread. So the elixir would not affect a Succubus. Succubi can take a male humanoid form, and several in Paizo Scenarios and APs have done so. Now of course a succubus in human form could drink the elixir and Change Shape to the opposite gender and make the others believe it affected them.
But is Dresden Files written with that element in mind, or are people keeping Succubi harems, summoning them for flings, and having fun or falling in love?
And the we have the issue of succubus lovers, concubines, and harems. Seen in many APs, and a focus or prominent part in no less than two(Wrath of the Righteous and Shattered Star), not to mention the upcoming Return of the Runelords, staring our favorite not-a-succubus succubus, Sorshen. Even if you have the will save beyond high, you still have a 1-in-20 fail rate on the seduction. I can’t picture the BBEG keeping a plaything around that will kill them in less than two minutes.
The level drain is part of the effect, the seduction to get more kisses/continue the act of passions is will save dependent. The ability’s stat block, as written support an automatic trigger on an act of passion; however, every other bit of rules, lore, and AP content support an at-will.
Noticula has a 2 level drain on mythic and 1d6+4 levels on non-mythic. I know she’s on the cusp of Godhood and slays demon lord rivals, but doing them in before the make out even gets warmed up? Plus how many adventures have the possibility of the player being rewarded by a succubus’ company?
I may be missing some other option, but it seems that either Succubi are chaste asexual seducers, or they can control the drain.
The big question I'm still confused on, is if Energy Drain is automatic/reflexive or conscious/at-will. I've always played it as a conscious decision on the part of the succubus. This has led to the entertaining situations of undercover succubi, including one who was an NPC within the party for almost three months before almost causing a TPK with a well placed betrayal.
I am aware that some succubi, including the famed Arueshalae lack the control they have, but they also are in the process of redemption and have an element of chastity with their attempt to 'go good'. A lot of the source material talk about how succubi plan and plot their moves, they wait for those right moments before bringing their targets down in a dramatic, soul breaking moment. It would be a lot harder to stay hidden like that if every kiss resulted in a lethal draining.
I'm in the process of cleaning my room and can't access my book, but how would the various levels of NPC Aristocrat fare against a stock Succubus? Obviously a first level is dead on a single kiss, but what about a 7th, 11th, or 17th level Aristocrat, what are the odds of them handling the will saves from those kisses and seduction skills?
Freehold DM wrote:
I can't believe I'm saying this, but let's keep things rated pg, folks...
PG-13? And we've resolved a number of issues through this process (this is the Rules Questions forum...)
We still have a couple unresolved/controversial issues. If a Succubus is vulnerable to the Energy Drain of a fellow Succubus. Is the use of Energy Drain during an act of passion an automatic or conscious result. And if an asexual individual is immune to a Succubus' abilities.
The Green Ronin book Plot and Poison has a prestige class that makes it an act of passion. Barring that, if you have consent, I have made myself familiar with the suffocation/breath-holding rule section of the environmental hazards.
And of course, since my campaign is barely balancing on the rails at the moment. One of my players has decided that since there may be a long time before he can rescue his wife, and he may not be able to redeem her, he's gonna hook up with the succubus they captured and bargained with. Just a platonic 'scratching mutual itches'.
The question is, is a Succubus' Energy Drain an at-will, reflexive, or automatic thing? They are both willing, so grapples are not needed.
That tail is a tricky thing isn't it? Certainly can provide a...circumstance bonus to escape artist checks?.
When a succubus is grappling a porcupine, why she's not taking any damage from the quills? I know she has Damage Reduction, but what actually happens?
Succubus' CMB is +11, Porcupine's CMD is 9. The Porcupine is being pinned. The tail slap being 1d3 damage, on a critical will do 6 damage at most(20/x2), can't get through the Succubi's DR 10/Cold iron or Good(Porcupine is True Neutral).
My money is on a sensation similar to a Wartenberg Wheel or Vampire Gloves.
Kickstarter Sophie from Reaper. I need to finish painting it, and then the hard part, finding a game where a latex-clad succubus on a motorcycle is an appropriate character.
Consider the cameo approved. Helping out the Queen of the Succubi. I'll stat something up for a suitable encounter when we get to the meat of book four.
William Werminster wrote:
Can a monk succubus flurryblow you while grappled with her.... ahem... you know?
If you are the one in control of the grapple, she can make use her full-attack action to Flurry-of-blows at -2 to hit.
If she is the one in control of the grapple, she can not as she requires a standard action to maintain the grapple and Flurry-of-blows requires a full-attack.
I told my players point-blank before a session, going forward, if they giggle, snicker, or otherwise make suggestive comments or innuendo concerning their characters current actions involving a succubus; it will count as an act of passion for their Energy Drain ability. It cuts down on the already excessive level of color commentary, as well as the pesky risk of alignment shifting. The Paladin tank already sees grappling succubi as a valid method of keeping them from attacking the party.
Can a succubus wearing masterwork manacles exercise acts of passion? Does this change if the victim is helpless?
As a bottom or submissive, no. The rules on their energy drain explicitly state "An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability." If they are the Top or Dominant, they will require a Conductive weapon(whip, flail, flogger, etc) in order to use the drain without directly contacting the bottom/submissive.
As a 2-time GM of Wrath of the Righteous(a succubus-heavy campaign), I would rule a helpless victim will be a valid target for Energy Drain, as they would be unable to fight back, in the same way a succubus is required to grapple or pin the target.
Yes, if the succubus has demonstrated the possibility of redemption. WotR has that as a major plot point in it, as well as the repeated occurrence of other potentially redeemable succubi.
I have finally gotten through reading the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, and the parts on Thassalonian magic confused me. If the 'opposition schools' are outright forbidden and unable to be used by those who practice Thassalonian magic.
How is it that Sorshen is thematically connected to vampires, blood-magic, and immortality when the fact she is the Runelord of Lust prevents her from accessing the necromancy and transmutation schools?
It seems like the Everdawn Pool was far too limiting and time-consuming to be a primary source of casting necromancy and transmutation spells, or was Sorshen's power and knowledge of the artifact sufficient to bypass the limits on charges that Ileosa and the PCs have?
For those of you in this thread who are wondering if this stuff is actually relevant in game. The answer is yes. I inherited a Wrath of the Righteous campaign, and due to player backstories, I replaced one of the mythic fights to fit that player's backstory.
Long story short, the Paladin is now pinned by two mythic succubi bards, the Magus and Bard have been dominated and told to run away, the demon-hating Ranger has already been charmed to be friendly to the harem of succubi, and the Oracle has just gotten out of the cage trap she was teleported into.
The conclusions we went on, it's easy to hand-wave the 'act of passion' requirement when the target has the "pinned" condition. In other cases, it simply requires touch-range, and the act must be one that the target/PC considers to be passionate or intimate.
James Jacobs wrote:
A followup question Mr Jacobs, if Sorshen did not worship any gods, demon lords, or in this case, Nocticula. Is this because Sorshen viewed Nocticula as 'competition' or a threat? Or are the two simply unaware of each other?
I've been reading some of the AP's to brush up on my lore, and I had a question come to mind, a couple of them. I know you have repeatedly hinted your interest in an AP involving both Nocticula's redemption and godhood, and revisiting Sorshen.
1: Are Nocticula and Sorshen related, either by blood, marriage, or romance?
This brings to mind an interesting concept. All the 'official' redeemed Succubi we've seen seem to have celibacy as a defining trait, like the energy drain is an automatic reaction to passionate activities. Is this an implication that the energy drain happens regardless of will when the Succubus is in an act of passion, or simply that the Succubi attempting to redeem themselves avoid intimacy to avoid the temptation of 'falling off the wagon' so to speak?
The first case seems to render the thread moot, as simply grappling a Succubus would not be an act of passion and not cause energy drain. The Succubus would be required to pin the PC to engage in a qualifying act.
The second case if it is actually a willful decision to energy drain in a passionate act, could this mean that it is possible to have a sex-positive redeemed Succubus? One that sees the 'evil-act' to be the draining, not the passion.
Calistria Paladin against a Succubus? Sounds interesting. Where would be the best place to put a campaign report where a Succubus Bard/Rogue who's a devoted lover/worshiper of Nocticula gets into a fight with a Succubus Priestess of Calistria that turns into a proxy fight for Nocty and Calistria herself?
And the solution to detect evil? Angelskin leather catsuit, I mean armor.