It probably involves lawyers. I'd guess that if the owners of Ninja Division don't want a court battle they can't win, they will have to find the money. They already collected the shipping fees from backers. Yes, we all know they blew the money on... something. Hopefully they will find themselves up against some fairly high level duel class Lawyer/Assassins if they don't find a way to ship the minis they're responsible for. I'll be shocked if they manage to pull it off. Let's all hope they manage it. I still want some space goblins and aliens with antennas on their heads.
I don't know anything about it, but my hope is that whoever is paying Archeon to manufacture & ship these figures is doing it this way to completely cut Ninja Division out of the money loop. Paying Archeon directly to manufacture & ship sounds like the way to go. Leave Ninja Division to fund the last scrap of responsibility the new agreement left for them.
I'm also hoping Ninja Division's logo will be reduced to a tiny blip on the back of the packs. If Archon's & Paizo's logos are the only ones on the front of the packaging, they would be a lot more palatable to buy at retail.
I'm not trying to be hateful here. It just pains me to see Ninja Division tarnishing Paizo's reputation. Awful companies hurt the industry and the gaming community, and I kinda like this community.
LOL so Ninja Division is still handling the shipping? 25 pages, 1200+ messages and Paizo has learned ZERO from the debacle.. Ninja Division should have been cut out of any new deal completely if you expect us to believe any of this as good news.
Ninja Division collected the money from backers for shipping. Since they obviously can't afford to pay the casters for these minis, the least they could do is take care of shipping. Come on, they have to take responsibility for something.
To be honest, I'm glad the owners of this doomed company are getting demoted to box packers. Maybe they'll fail at it, maybe they won't. Either way, let em sweat.
You know, I don't actually have any mini's since I tend to play stuff online. What sorts of miniatures do the rest of you recommend, and why?
I would recommend looking at Infinity and Reaper Chronoscope if you want Starfinder proxie minis. The 2 lines scale well together. You'll find some beautiful scifi character sculpts in the Infinity line, and a few character and monster options in the Reaper catalogue.
I understand the announcement was recent, but how far into the ND fiasco did the talks with WizKids start?
I imagine they started talking to WizKids shortly after they realized that Ninja Division doesn't have any realistic hope of ever delivering the minis. The situation is severe. Even if Ninja Division could magically have all the figures teleported to their warehouse tomorrow, they likely wouldn't even have enough money to ship them to backers. Same with all the other outstanding Kickstarters that they haven't manufactured and delivered.
Great news. Like so many of us said back at the start of this, Paizo should've gone with WizKids and/or Reaper from the beginning. I keep wondering why they didn't. My guess is that Paizo was in a rush to get them to market and the other companies couldn't do it on Paizo's "we need this right away" time scale. Of coarse, Ninja Division's time scale is the same it's been for the last 4 years.
If WizKids comes out with unpainted Starfinder minis I'll be pretty thrilled. Other than occasional gloopy primer issues, they've been solid. I'll gladly give WizKids money for Srarfinder minis.
Here is what the Paizo COO said about it earlier in the thread. I'll post the link as well as the quote.https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2umu4?Miniatures-Kickstarter-Ninja-Division#34
Jeff Alvarez wrote:
Jeff Alvarez wrote:
Gotta say, that is the best news I've heard during this whole situation. Even if Ninja Division somehow comes out with these at retail, I wouldn't buy them unless they were in the clearance bin. Hopefully, another company will someday get it done. One without all the baggage this company carries.
The art and stylistic design of the characters and races in Starfinder are inspired. I'd love to paint some eventually.
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
It would be great to see another company get a crack at these. If they weren't resin it would be even better. I tend to break small resin gaming figures. Would be great if someone who makes plastic and/or metal got the license. I know the Pathfinder mini license is shared by two companies.
I'd like to know if the Ninja Division deal was exclusive, or if Paizo still has the rights necessary to let another company make Starfinder miniatures, as is the case with Pathfinder. I would guess that when 2 companies both license the same IP to make competing miniature lines, things could get contentious. Especially since this is such a new and niche IP. It's a very small market for 2 companies to share.
Still, if Ninja Division never delivers the KS figures to backers and then retail, it would end up being one company with the license and almost nothing but a few overpriced prepaint packs on store shelves. I really hope the license was not exclusive. Putting all the Starfinder's eggs into one basket seems insane considering ND is holding the basket.
Ah, already ninja'd by Sara Marie. Guessing we won't know for a while. 100% understandable. NDAs, legal considerations and businesses courtesies are par for the course. Fair enough.
Silas Stadatilas wrote:
There's the discussion in the Paizo Blog about it. Paizo didn't jump to assure backers that all will be fine until after the project ended. There were a lot of warnings posted before the Kickstarter ended though.
I suspect that Paizo really wanted both unpainted and prepainted minis from a single company for this line. Wizkids wasn't interested or just couldn't do it, Reaper probably had too much on their plate already to rush out prepaints (not their forte) in addition to the metal and plastic they normally make, and Ninja Division was blinded by desperation for any source of cash flow.
Ninja Division are experts at hyping up their abilities and making assurances they don't have the ability to honor. With few if any other options, and perhaps a little desperation as well, Paizo probably took what they could get. But to pick Ninja Division of all companies. Egad.
I dunno. Maybe prepaints weren't a factor. Maybe the sticking point was getting the figures into the market as quickly as possible. It could've been speed that made it impossible for WizKids and Reaper to add this to their product lines, or something completely different. But Ninja Division is NOT known for speed, working well as a licensee, smooth kickstarters or making prepaints.
To be completely honest, I'm surprised they produced and shipped anything at all. Some Starfinder backers and the Paizo shop already got more than SDE:L or Relic Knight backers are likely to ever get.
I only backed this for a buck so I could respectfully warn unsuspecting backers about all the red flags. Did what I could in spite of all the white knights who assured everybody it was going to be fine. Still, it actually did go better than I expected it would. Some people got something. Yay?
This would have been a completely different experience if Paizo had been able to license Starfinder to WizKids or Reaper. I just hope this wasn't a case of Paizo having unrealistic expectations. Then, not hearing what they wanted from their old Pathfinder mini partners, picked Ninja Division because they told Paizo everything they wanted to hear.
That's what Ninja Division does to their backers, after all.
Years to fulfill. That would make it a fairly normal Ninja Division kickstarter. I have a hunch that Paizo will put enough pressure on ND to make sure they fulfill this project before some of their older unfulfilled kicistarters.
They just posted a scale shot of the Bloodbrother. That thing is bad elf! If this was made by a company that I trusted I'd be all over it.
https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/018/800/097/12d78bc32707bbc65419f9fe4d4e27 96_original.jpg?w=639&fit=max&v=1508287039&auto=format&q=92 &s=e5120dd961cead9d5d654095a5cd2f1b
Marco Massoudi wrote:
Ah, I see your point. It is a little unusual that they don't have a big finale figure yet, but they still have time to toss out a last day stretch goal. Ninja Division may be approaching this with caution. Waiting to see how big the initial 48 hour push is before deciding how to cap off the kickstarter. The dollars have to be there.
I'd also like to see a more comprehensive mini selection, but that's probably impractical. Pathfinder has been a huge force in the RPG world with minis coming out for years and we still don't have figures for a lot of monsters and character races. My daughter plays a Firbolg cleric and she has to use a proxy mini. She doesn't mind at all. Perhaps it makes her character feel more unique or special. ^_^
I think they're probably offering all the figures they can afford to make with the amount of money they're getting. They could even be pushing it a little. After all, this isn't a million dollar plus KS.
If they manage to get out of the abyss of negativity they threw themselves into, and survive all of the refunds they're being hit with, I suspect they'll attempt a second Starfinder KS after this one fulfills. Not to mention they still have Super Dungeon Explore, Way of the Fighter, Relic Knights, and a Starfinder prepaint line to work on, all at the same time... in addition to this project.
I do contribute positively to hobby. I support a long list of companies that have earned my trust (Paizo being one of my favorites). Soda Pop / Ninja Division used to be trustworthy as well, but they lost it. They did it themselves. If Reaper or WizKids had come out with Starfinder minis I'd buy box fulls of them to go with my boxes of metal, plastic and prepainted Pathfinder minis.
This has nothing to do with gamers not supporting the hobby. It's all about trust. I heavily support companies that maintain that trust and warn others against the ones that squander it. It's deceitful and unscrupulous companies that hurt this hobby.
Does anybody know what the deal is with the resin Starfinder minis that are up for presale in the Paizo store? I thought the kickstarter was the preorder system for these figures..
Here's the link:
It's a shame Reaper and WizKids turned down making these figures. I would've gotten so many Starfinder minis if they were made by a company I trust. No one can deny that Ninja Division has outstanding sculptors. Their figures are great, but they aren't worth the inflated prices. If that was the only issue I could understand Paizo choosing them, but Ninja Division is dishonest to their own supporters (I used to be one).
I have so many metal, PVC & prepainted figures for Pathfinder and absolutely love them. It looks like Starfinder will be a pawn only game until another company gets the license or makes passable proxy minis.
Soooo glad to see this coming out. I love the Grey Maidens and snatch up every mini of them I can find (gonna have to paint the Reaper ones now). Really looking forward to running this. The Runelords hardback was part of what convinced me to try out the Pathfinder RPG. I bought RotR right along with the core rules, RotR pawns, and bestiary 1. Gotta say, the price is high but I'll definitely get it.
I'm backing for 2 sets plus the troll lair. I'll add the risers, bridges, traps and possibly more lairs once they are unlocked. Looks ideal for caverns, goblin lairs and bandit hideouts. I know it's a mine themed dungeon tile set but I'm not actually interested in the track pieces.
Here's what we will be getting for $75 after a couple more unlocks (ours will be unpainted):
I like it but with a map on only one side I will pass.
Same here. I won't be buying any one sided flip maps.
They aren't making these better because they don't want to upset people who bought the one sided map? Where's the progress in that? If Paizo is going to remake something, then make it better. That's like saying they won't correct errata in their books because the first print owners would be offended. It's a backwards mentality. Paizo should ALWAYS look for ways to up their game. That's how they'll keep customers loyal.
Vic Wertz wrote:
I see. Well, considering that isn't an option, it makes the Strategy guide that much more indispensable. I love the game. The Beginner Box was the only way to make it accessible to my kids. This looks like it will help them get through many levels of play.
Hopefully, by the time we finish RotR and start on another AP, the Core Rulebook won't seem like such a rubik's cube. Giving new or young players an easier path into the game system was a good move. My kids will finally be able to gain mid-levels without having to decide between dozens of scattered confusing options, and they will still be able take their heroes in the direction they prefer. Mad props to the developers of this book.
I've had the book for a few days and I definitely like it. My kids and I started with the core rulebook, got thoroughly confused, bought the Beginner Box, had a great time, and started on Rise of the Runelords.
The Core rulebook is confusing as hell. It's as if Paizo tried to make important info difficult to find. A rewrite of the core book would make Pathfinder much easier to learn.
The Beginner Box is terrific. This book is terrific. Paizo, please take that next step and reorganize the Core book. You don't have to change the rules, just make them easier to find. I started playing D&D 30 years ago. These games aren't new to me. You have a great product. It's all in the delivery. This book proves that you can present rules in a clear manner. Well done. The Strategy guide was worth the long wait.
With all these posts touting excitement for a rare 1st ed. misprint, I'm not convinced this isn't a finely tuned marketing scheme with an in-depth understanding of nerd brains.
I agree. I'm not at the point in Pathfinder where I could really use this book but I'm thinking about buying this just because of the epic misprint. This seems like nerd manipulation at it's best. You just gotta love stuff like this.
Liz Courts wrote:
Understandable. Thank you for answering. Considering the price of this pamphlet on the secondary market I think the PDF will do.
Is there another goblin supplement you would recommend that's still in print? My daughter loves loves loves Pathfinder goblins and I'd like to get her a book on them to go with the plushies.
This isn't a dummies guide, it's a "kid friendly" guide. Nothing wrong with this at all. I have two kids ages 12 & 14 who I hope will get a lot of use from this. I plan on using this to help them transition from the Beginner Box to the core rules. It isn't meant for every Pathfinder player any more than the BB was made for every player. Whatever makes the game/rules more accessible to more players is a win for the hobby. Heck, I'll probably use this book and I started playing 29 years ago.