Painter Worshipper of Shelyn

Chell Raighn's page

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I agree with the others regarding the drawback selection… you should either select the drawbacks yourself as a GM or have your players seek approval for their choice of drawback. For example: if a player selects Betrayed, make sure they actually intend to use sense motive before you approve it. Betrayed is one of the easiest drawbacks to ignore as a player regardless of class. For social drawbacks like that one, you may even need to force use of the associated skill check.


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A fun little bonus synergy with stylish repost is to pick up Paired Opportunists and either have a way to share the feat or convince the other melee combatants in your group to take it too and stay adjacent… then you don’t even have to take your AoO from Stylsh Repost ever… since every time someone misses you by 5 or more they will provoke from you and all your friends, let them all take their AoOs and then if the foe is still standing and you think you can drop them take yours, if you don’t think they will die before their turn comes back around, then hold off to get another round of AoOs from your friends.


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A few more things to keep in mind…

Your decision to go with two clawblades or one should ultimately come down to availability of feats.

As a rogue you get BAB 6 at 8th level, which means you’ll have to make a few decisions around that time… 1) do you want to take TWF early and not really benefit much from it until 8th so you can immediately go into Improved TWF? 2) do you want to delay Improved TWF until 9th or later? 3) are there other feats you would rather have at these levels? 4) have you already taken the Combat Trick rogue talent? (I highly recommend saving it for 8th level if you do want to go the TWF route.)

Other things to consider as well are how many attacks of yours do enemies tend to survive on average. If the answer is no more than three then you might not actually want to go with TWF or might want to atleast delay Improved TWF for the time being.


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Early on, natural claws will be the better choice. But once you hit BAB 6, the claw blades become the better option.

BAB 1-5, you can get two attacks per round at max BAB using Claws. With Clawblades you get 2 attacks at BAB-2 (TWF feat). You could also just take one set of clawblades and get one attack at max BAB and then a secondary natural claw at BAB-5. Only the first option gives you full strength to damage on both attacks, the second option requires Double Slice feat to get there, and the third will always be 1/2 Str on the second attack.

At BAB 6, however, your extra iterative attack makes it more valuable to have atleast one set of clawblades. You can either skip TWF all together and attack at +6/+1/+1 or you can go TWF+iTWF for +4/+4/-1/-1. Without TWF you will only get 3 attacks and one will always be at 1/2 strength, but with TWF you can get 4 attacks and if you take double slice all at max strength… however it is a heavy feat investment and enchanting two sets of clawblades is pricey.

Basically:
Natural claws = 2 attacks, max BAB, full strength to damage
2 clawblades = 2-6 attacks, BAB-2 w/iteratives, full strength to damage, 4 feats
1 Clawblades = 2-4 attacks, max BAB w/iteratives & BAB-5, half strength on secondary natural attack

From BAB 1-5 natural claws are 100% superior, at BAB 6 clawblades are superior and it comes down to a question of if you can afford the feat investment or not.

Note: I am aware URogue uses dex to damage, and most GMs won’t let you use Double Slice with dex to damage. So keep that in mind when weighing your options. If your GM does allow it then the TWF route is your best choice in the long run, otherwise I would suggest heavily considering the single set of clawblades option and investing your feats into some other options.

Regarding your question on natural attacks with TWF… they do not interact at all. You can TWF with your manufactured weapons or unarmed strikes and then follow up with secondary natural attacks for any limbs not using manufactured weapons… which does technically mean you could perform a TWF series of kicks and then follow up with secondary natural claws… but this is often seen as very cheesy and may result in your GM throwing a book at you.


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Just to add more clarity that targeting touch AC doesn’t negate the ability to use ranged spellstrike… one of the top suggested tactics for Eldritch archers is to pick up some Dye Arrows to use for spellstrikes to ensure you hit the target. It’s a weird tactic since it kinda defeats the purpose of a spellstrike by dealing no weapon damage… but it is a valid tactic nonetheless… using spellstrike with a net is perfectly valid and actually makes more sense, as with a net it’s more about adding damage to a normally non-damaging attack.. whereas dye arrow spellstrikes are about sacrificing weapon damage for a better chance to hit.


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For the arrow and bolt, it makes perfect sense to stab them, and then load and shoot that arrow/bolt… but the bullet is where things get complicated… additionally I think the “loaded bolt” in the feat was an error and should have said “unloaded bolt”…

Anyways… regarding the firearm bullet, you could reason it as either punching someone in the gut with a bullet in hand or even throwing gunpowder in someone’s face to get them to reel back, giving you space to load and fire safely, but it certainly isn’t stabbing… regardless of how you rationalize it, it still functions mechanically the same, make a melee attack, deal damage, push them back 5ft, proceed to load and fire.

Personally I might rationalize the firearm bullet part as a quick pistol whip or stock strike as hitting them with the butt of your firearm seems a bit more practical and more likely to cause the target to stumble backwards.


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Yes… the normal line doesn’t “do anything” except for tell you how the action the feat alters works without the feat. In the case of double slice, the normal functionality is that you can only add 1/2 strength on offhand attacks. With the feat THAT rule is modified. It doesn’t call out that normally you can’t add strength to offhand ranged attacks because it doesn’t alter that rules function. As per the books how to read feats segment:

Quote:
Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no particular drawback, this entry is absent.

We can determine several the Inca about Double Slice by its normal. Several feats with Normal sections are actually far easier to understand how they function when you actually read the normal as part of the entire feat, as intended.

1) normally offhand melee attacks only get 1/2 strength and o damage - the feat lists this in its normal.
2) normally ranged attacks get no strength to damage - is not listed in the feats normal.
3) if there is no penalty or drawback associated to the action(s) affected by the feat then it is not listed.
To conclude: the lack of strength to damage on ranged attacks is not considered a penalty or drawback for not having this particular feat. So there is no penalty or drawback to override. Feats that have a normal section override and change the functionality of the normal rule they outline.

FYI: there are a few instances of feats with Normals that create rules where there previously were none. These created rules are continually held up as being RAW and RAI despite the rule never existing outside the feat’s normal. So it’s rather disingenuous to claim the normal section does nothing.


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you wouldn't lose Bleeding Critical... but you would lose access to it, and become unable to benefit from it until you acquire Critical Focus again.


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Honestly since you took a weapon as your bonded object, you should just invest in feats to improve your effectiveness with it… for a bow building into the Empty Quiver Style feat chain could be a wise idea.


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Senko wrote:
Chell Raighn wrote:
Derklord wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Item Mastery Feats can be pretty handy, though oddly a lot of them are tied to Fort Save. I'm Currently playing a Fighter who can use his weapon to cast Dimension Door. been remarkably helpful
For a Fighter, sure. For a Witch, who has most of the spells castable with Item Mastery feats on her spell list, and gets both later access and fewer daily uses due to the lower fort save, the feats are rather underwhelming.
The main appeal of the feats to a full caster isn’t to get a spell they couldn’t otherwise cast, but rather to free up a spell slot for a different spell.
Still seems an iffy use of a feat given the other options but I'm sure there are players who have more spare feats for their casters than I tend to have.

Never said it was a good use of a feat… just that that is the appeal of them for full casters… if you happen to be a full caster with an extra feat and nothing to spend it on, then an item mastery feat could be a decent option to free up a spell slot… but generally full casters do have much better things to spend their feats on.


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Unfortunately you can only take it once.

Vigilante Talent wrote:
Starting at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a vigilante gains a vigilante talent. Unless otherwise noted, a talent can be selected only once. Some talents require the vigilante to meet prerequisites before they can be chosen, such as possessing another vigilante talent, possessing a particular specialization, or attaining a minimum level. Once a talent has been selected, it can’t be changed.

Each vigilante talent may only be selected once unless stated otherwise... and unfortunately Signature Weapon makes no note of it being selectable more than once.


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Derklord wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Item Mastery Feats can be pretty handy, though oddly a lot of them are tied to Fort Save. I'm Currently playing a Fighter who can use his weapon to cast Dimension Door. been remarkably helpful
For a Fighter, sure. For a Witch, who has most of the spells castable with Item Mastery feats on her spell list, and gets both later access and fewer daily uses due to the lower fort save, the feats are rather underwhelming.

The main appeal of the feats to a full caster isn’t to get a spell they couldn’t otherwise cast, but rather to free up a spell slot for a different spell.


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The bards reaction to the woman’s joke was clearly a Chaotic Evil action… while he may not have actually caused her physical harm, he acted with malicious intent, performed a deed to benefit himself at the expense of another, that is by definition an evil act. So, in that sense, yes he did something wrong… as a chaotic good character they may perform unlawful acts but strive to always do good, after all right and wrong is not always as black and white as the law.

Alignment issues aside, their behavior is definitely bad… pathfinder is a group game, everyone involved is seeking the same enjoyment, and being rude at the table is not something that should be accepted or swept under the rug… from your description it’s unclear if the woman is being introduced as an NPC companion or a new PC, since your description implies both… that said, the implications of their behavior carry heavy consequences for one scenario over the other. If it is a new PC, then that sort of behavior can and most likely will cause problems at the table between the players if it is not corrected soon… if it is an NPC, then it isn’t as major of a problem, but still shouldn’t be taken too lightly, keep alignment rules in mind and enforce alignment shifts over time.


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Diego Rossi wrote:

You are not the only one speaking here. It is one of the reasons why I posted something directed specifically at you only in the last row.

Chell Raighn wrote:
Technically False Focus is actually a stronger version of Eschew Materials. Both feats work equally on Arcane and Divine spells

It can be though. The benefit doesn’t make any mention of only working for arcane. The EXAMPLE uses an arcane caster, and the flavor text says arcane, but the actual feat rules text does not specify. Everything after “for example” is an example of use, NOT RULES TEXT.


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In Galorian it seems fair to say that proselytizing exists primarily when dealing with worshipers of deities from a separate pantheon, or worshipers of a deity who is diametrically opposed to your own. For example, a worshiper of Nethys might try to sway the beliefs of someone who follows Kronia, claiming them to be an inferior imitation.


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Technically False Focus is actually a stronger version of Eschew Materials. Both feats work equally on Arcane and Divine spells… Divine casters don’t need it as often since many divine spells have M/DF as a component allowing them to substitute the material component for their Divine Focus regardless of material component cost… but for the spells that lack the /DF portion, the feats are still quite useful to divine casters… for arcane the equivalent component format of F/M is almost never used which is what makes these feats invaluable to arcane casters.


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That is not what that line means. It means if the creature has any listed features that are not given descriptions you are to refer to the base creatures for those descriptions. It doesn’t gain anything that is not listed.

In the case of the example creature, it gets everything listed on the Annihilator Robot (because the template says it does) but nothing else from the technic league captain(because the template sais it only gets those few things)


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Nothing in the template says anything about the construct inheriting the features and abilities of the creature that is soul bound to it. A soul bound construct has ALL of the base statistics and features of the base CONSTRUCT except mental scores and alignment (those come from the soul bound creature). It also inherits the mental ability score-based skills of the soul bound creature, as well as their feats, and a deflection bonus to AC equal to their charisma mod.

Everything else that is gained is from the template itself and not based on either creature.

Simple step by step breakdown:

Step1: start with the full stat block for the construct.
Step2: apply the soulbound creatures mental ability scores and alignment
Step3: apply feats and menta ability score-based skills from the soulbound creature (take highest bonus for any overlapping skills)
Step4: apply deflection bonus equal to charisma mod to saves
Step5: add spell-like ability and special qualities according to the instructions in the template as well as the modified weakness.
Complete - there is nothing else added or changed at this point.


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It is very clear by RAW that the improved familiar is no more or less intelligent than a standard familiar for your level.

“Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).”

There are two and only two exceptions to the normal familiar rules that apply to improved familiars.
1) their creature type is unchanged from the base creature.
2) they do not gain the Speak With Other Creatures of Their Kind ability.
That is all that changes. Everything else is EXACTLY as written in the normal familiar rules. There is no grey area, there is no rules inconsistency, there is no room for question. The rules on this are quite clear, that is why there has never been an official weigh in, there doesn’t need to be one. It is very clearly spelled out in the rules. They follow familiar rules with TWO very clear exceptions.


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To add to the above statements… A generous GM might alot you an extra 100GP worth of value to the final product therefore letting you use false focus to effectively stretch the raw resources you started with a little bit… but in the case of fabricate it won’t ever outright negate the material cost… getting an extra 100gp worth of value to your materials is purely up to GM discretion, since per RAW it isn’t supported.


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Well, since it’s downtime, and I doubt you require your players to actively RP all of their downtime crafting and profession checks… you could offer her a downtime “quest” and rather than do any sort of extended RP with it, just do a bit of quick overview and have her make some skill checks. Full RP isn’t always required for a downtime side job. If a player isn’t interested in extended RP sessions while other players have downtime, don’t force them to, you can just as easily adapt the same downtime encounters you would have offered them a chance to RP into quick little skill check events with little to no RP involved.


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There are also the Ashiftah, Cartomancer, and Gravewalker witch archetypes which all get an ability that lets them deliver touch spells as ranged touch at level 3… but of course that requires going for a three level dip… ignoring those options you could always take the Boon Companion feat to treat your witch level as 4 higher for determining the abilities of your familiar therefore getting the deliver touch spells feature, of course you will want to be very selective of what type of familiar you take if you plan to do this…

Things to keep in mind if using your familiar to deliver touch spells:
1) your familiar is treated as holding a charge, and therefore does not provoke when it makes the touch attack to deliver the spell since the spell has already been cast.
2) your familiar is a tiny creature, and therefore must enter another creatures square to deliver the touch spell, this will provoke but only from the creatures who’s square it has entered.
3) familiars are very easily killed, so have safeguards in place for them.
4) flying familiars can usually cover a lot more distance in one move action, and therefore tend to be better candidates for delivering touch spells.
5) because of the combined implications of points 1&2 using your familiar for beneficial spell delivery is the best option.


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A highly useful class feature to keep in mind with the Warpriest is their Fervor ability… specifically using it to Swift Cast any spell you have prepared that can target you… it is an invaluable class feature as it can enable you to use self buffing spells at the drop of a hat without ever provoking an AoO or disrupting your attack routine.

Also, Divine Fighting Techniques are fantastic options for warpriests. Trade out one of your minor blessings to gain access to your deities divine fighting technique, and then optionally trade out a major blessing for the major benefit of the technique of you want it and don’t already qualify for it from your feat progression.


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A few classes that can fit the allrounder profile and are crazy survivable are the following:

Paladin - while a Paladin won’t be doing much in the way of blasting, they are one of the tankless classes out there with very little effort, can heal themselves and allies easily, and have a large array of buffs they can provide themselves and others, as well as debuffs for enemies.

Druid - in my honest opinion this is the single most broken class in the game. Druids are truest jacks of all trades masters of all. Between 9th level spells, 3/4 bab, d8HD, animal companion, wildshape, and a whole host of other class features there isn’t much they are not good at… add to that the fact that they only really need Wisdom, Dexterity, and Constitution and you have a class that rarely fails saves, can be hard to hit, and can easily survive a lot of damage… high wisdom also means that they will almost never fail a perception check if they put ranks into it.

Monk - Monks are AC fiends… when built right they can easily have 60+ AC, crazy high Saves, and never fail to hit. While they don’t have spells, they can get various spell-like abilities through the Quigong Monk archetype or by playing Unchained Monk, many of which will easily fill the gaps in the Allrounder profile for them.

Magus - magus is the only arcane caster who can realistically fill the allrounder profile. However, they will never fill it perfectly. Magus thrives on Dex and Con and requires intelligence for their spells (charisma if Eldritch Scion archetype) and suffers from arcane prepared spellcasting (unless Mind Blade or Eldritch Scion archetype). Their strength however comes from having a wide array of blasting and buffing spells, the ability to cast as part of a full round attack, and armored spellcasting. They also have a variety of class features that can be used to shore up their weaknesses.

Kineticist - the second most broken Class in the game… no one else can do absolutely everything on a single stat. All you need is Con… you have the innate ability to blast all day long, can alter your blasts to do all sorts of things as well, and can be insanely tanky with no real drawbacks… their only weakness is falling unconscious easily due to massive amounts of unhealable non-lethal damage.

Honorable mentions:
Occultist - with the Trappings of the Warrior panoply they can be a very strong frontliner, their focus powers also give them a nice range of abilities… however their unique way of learning spells does heavily restrict their effectiveness early on.

Bard - shared many of the same strengths as a magus, but to lesser degrees… a bard plays best with a full party in a support role, but can be an effective solo character as well. If running the Dervish Dancer archetype then they are 100% a solo character since their performances nolonger benefit others. However, that archetype does make them an even more effective allrounder by greatly improving their biggest weak point (their frontline viability), they can still use spells to blast, heal, buff, and debuff. Bard is arguably the best buff/debuff class in the game as well.


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As above… it could sloppily apply the makeup but nothing more as providing a beneficial or precise application of clown makeup would be replicating the effect of a higher level spell which prestidigitation expressly states it cannot do.


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Always a good idea to have something on hand to induce sickened or nauseated condition… it might not be an ideal solution, but if you can force it to vomit you back up then you will live… and even better you’ve weakened the creature for your Allies to finish off.


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Mudfoot wrote:
The problem at high levels is that magic trumps everything, so even mundane issues that can't be handled by force can probably be handled by Limited Wish.

There is a reason why a lot of GMs ban or heavily restrict access to that spell… furthermore a lot of people put way too much stock into what Wish & Limited wish can do without actually acknowledging the limitations of the spells…

For example: I have seen a lot people claim Wish can be used to resurrect someone without negative levels despite the fact that the spell quit clearly states that it in fact cannot do that.
Wish used to create the effects of a Tsunami (a 9th level spell) despite Wish being limited to replicating the effects of up to 8th level spells.
People not acknowledging the fact that Wish functions differently for effects of Arcane and Divine spells… (and the same is true for Miracle)

Gaining an “unlimited” wish is purely at GM discretion and subject to any and all interpretations the GM desires (regardless of how precisely you word it).

And the Limited Wish is even more restrictive… it’s not the Ultimate spell everyone makes it out to be… it is only as powerful as the GM allows it to be… when using Limited Wish if the effect is to powerful your GM could choose to either let it work but to a lesser degree than you had wished for or declare the wish simply failed… it’s only when your GM doesn’t understand how the spell works that you get effects like “make the town like it was never destroyed”. Which is to strong of an effect for even Wish BTW.


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Well… the simplest way to run a emotionless game is to do as you asked about in your OP… crack open the beastiary and throw random encounters at them…

If they don’t want to be emotionally invested in anything, then you shouldn’t have to put in the effort to hand craft a world for them with story and plot driven encounters… give them their murder hobo simulator with zero expectations and no real goal…

If you want to keep things story driven though… I’d start with having that Paladin fall… he clearly doesn’t care about following Abadan’s Paladin code… make him feel the consequences for his actions… he can still run emotionless murderhobo as a fallen Paladin… he just won’t be as powerful anymore and the party might try to be less murder hobo-ey going forwards…

I know you said you don’t want to punish them… but by the sounds of it, they are making the game punishing for you as is… and quite frankly, no matter what you try to do, any method of changing up how you run the game will ultimately seem like punishment… might as well make it deliberate and clear rather than slow and grueling…


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As someone else who has fairly recently transitioned from d&d 3.5 to pathfinder 1e I can say… skill ranks were one of the most confusing things for the transition… You get some used to 3.5 having you spend 2 points per rank in non-class skills and then the whole concept of retroactive skill points being entirely foreign as well… but after getting past the initial confusion from the transition pathfinders system is much better and easier to fully grasp… though there are still some parts of the rules that are needlessly complicated in pathfinder and were simpler in 3.5 (looking at you grappling)


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Opuk0 wrote:

The more they elaborated, the more fantasy tropes they decried as being overdone until eventually I asked "Then what does a fantasy hero do?" To which they had no response other than "I don't know, I just don't want to fight against someone that that has a sign that says 'bad guy' hanging from their neck."

This threw me for a loop. All I could think of was a quote from Lemony Snickett - "I'm at a loss for how to write a villain who doesn't do villainous things"

How do you go about writing your villains in a way that isn't boring or overdone?

Well… you could always do a “bait and switch” sort of villain… someone who go through great lengths to make the party believe they are in fact on their side, when in reality they are the one pulling all of the strings…

There are a couple of ways to do this in fact…

Option 1) an underling or unwitting pawn is used as a stand-in big bad evil guy… the stand-in might know what is going on, or they could be completely clueless… whatever the circumstance they always seem to be present or atleast connected to every “major evil act” the party encounters… the true evil guy operates under the guise of either a victim, a “benevolent benefactor”, a ruler or high ranking official, a member of the guard, or an “inconsequential NPC”… this sort of setup is meant to wait for the perfect moment to pull the rug out from under the players as they realize they have been chasing the wrong guy this whole time.

Option 2) the players become the villains… basically, you have your players working under a “benevolent benefactor” and performing “great deeds of heroism” only for those very heroics to be setting the groundwork for a nefarious scheme. As the story progresses the state of the people in the land the heroes have been in should worsen in some manner, peoples attitudes towards them should slowly drift towards the negative, and the players should eventually start to question if what they are doing is even right. For this setup you have to target morally grey areas on a regular basis. Never have the party do anything overtly evil, but also keep making them do things that aren’t exactly good either. They must be constantly reminded “this is for the greater good” and they must be made to think that as well. If all is done right then they will be completely blindsided when the big reveal comes and they realize the evils they have done… note: bonus points if you can pull this off with a moral high ground Paladin in the party.

Option 3) big bad evil guy is on vacation… ok so this option is for a more humorous approach to the “not the bad guy” trope… basically you paint the big bad evil guy as exactly that in everything the party is told about them… but for whatever reason he doesn’t seem to be doing anything nefarious at all.. in fact he seems to be the exact opposite of what the party has been told… so now the party believes they might have been hired by the “real bbeg”… the real genius behind this plot device is that you as the GM can just wing it… you essentially let the players write the story without them even realizing it as they try to uncover a hidden evil plot that simply doesn’t exist. This is however not possible to pull off successfully with every group of players as some groups will simply sit and stare at you waiting for you to give them all the directions while this plot device relies heavily on them steering off script.


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Honestly, the best improvement that enchantment could get would actually be to have the weaker “mind affecting” spells loose the mind-affecting tag. This would allow enchantment to be used in far more situations while keeping the stronger options that can instantly end combat locked down to rarer usage.


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VoodistMonk wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

for the impressive spreadsheets of Mystic Theurge combinations?

Too bad it is the spreadsheets, themselves, that are impressive... not the Mystic Theuge combinations they contain.

If, and it is an "if", any impressive Mystic Theurge combinations do actually exist, I am sure the list of said combinations would be quite short and unimpressive, itself.

I know that Nyrissa from Kingmaker should absolutely NOT be used as an example of impressive Mystic Theurge combinations, because impressive Nyrissa is not. But it should certainly be noted that using monsters that have racial spellcasting is probably the best way to use Mystic Theurge... Nymphs cast as 7th-level Druids, so you only need to add your arcane spellcasting levels, then Mystic Theurge levels.

NPC/monster creation follows a different standard than your typical PCs though… an NPC needs only be impressive in a single encounter. Even if the NPC is reoccurring, they don’t need to have all the same build necessities as a standard PC. So an archetype or prC that is considered “bad” for a player might be amazing for an NPC. You might be surprised how much a “bad” archetype or prC can improve an NPC. Infact I am under the strict belief that many of them were written expressly for NPC usage and never truly intended for player characters… MT on an NPC can be absolutely amazing and even seen as overpowered since generally the class abilities that don’t get progressed are of little or no use to an NPC.


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1/2 class progression sounds like a great way to improve the value of MT… though it would likely change the entire dynamic of the prestige class and what classes are best to go into it… suddenly feature heavy 6th level casters would be far more appealing with MT, and feature sparse classes (such as wizard) would be undesirable with MT.


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Seeking is practically a must have for bows… the sheer number of ways a target can gain a miss chance against ranged attacks specifically makes this a godsend… as a +1 equivalent it is easily the most worthwhile enchantment for a bow for its cost.

Veering has potential to be just as useful as Seeking depending on how often your enemies utilize cover. If you deal with enemies that use cover more than concealment then I’d take this over seeking initially. Like seeking it is also only a +1 equivalent.

Interfering is an amazing enchantment letting you make AoOs with your bow against targets within 30ft. It has a hefty +5 equivalent cost, but it is absolutely worth it especially if you take combat reflexes. As n archer you should have a high Dex which means you should be able to get off quite a few AoOs per round with this enchantment.

Heart-piercing is Vorpal but for ranged weapons… if you have a spare +5 and have a lot of luck with your d20 then it’s great… if not, skip it.

Elemental, alignment, and Bane enchantments are good, but for ranged weapons you would actually be better off investing in some ammunition with these enchantments. Recommended ammunition enchantment format is “+1 Indestructible” and then an element, alignment, and/or bane enchantment. This way as long as your arrow hits a target or lands somewhere you can get to it again you can always recover your valuable enchanted arrows as they will never break.


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Take at “any odd level” is not the same as “every odd level” he’s simply referring to the fact that it has no level requirement and could be taken at any level. Once you’ve taken it once the rules still apply and prevent you from taking it again.

What he’s arguing it that he believes it does not scale with level and stat changes. That if you take it at first you only ever get 1 bonus spell, and if you took it at 19th you’d get up to 9 (19/2=9.5 rounded down). Nothing about his post says anything in regards to it being taken multiple times.


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3/4 BAB, 6th level prepared arcane Spellcaster with a heavy focus on evocation ray spell usage… it’s not really that overpowered to be perfectly honest… it might be one of the most well balanced 3pp classes I’ve actually seen…

That said…

Elemental Attunement is a little broken… if it was a one time selection or had limited uses per day for changing the element of spells it’d be more balanced… as it is though… it is basically just like saying “if I know what we’re up against today, all my spells target it’s weakness”… which is absolutely insane… so either lock the chosen element down at the level the ability is obtained or limit the times per day it can change the element of your spells…

Destructive Blows is also a bit much… getting the full vital strike feat chain for free is more than a little broken… though utilizing it might a bit risky or difficult if not flat out impossible… since the free attack from casting a touch spell or a ray does NOT use the attack action, you would have to hold the charge and then use your standard action on the following round to vital strike with any of your ray spells… assuming you don’t just quicken all of them… which would then use your swift to cast and standard to vital strike… do note though that the damage from vital strike on ray spells is insane, and there is a reason why many DMs either don’t permit it or houserule that you only multiply the minimum dice roll of the spell.

The rest really isn’t that crazy though… 3/4 bab is balance by only getting 6th level spells. Bonus evocation spell slot is nothing special. Int to damage is strong at low levels but weak in the long run, an evocation wizard will do more bonus damage in the long run. Charged weapon is strong, but its really not much stronger than some of the strongest 3+Int/day wizard school powers, and as a swift action you have to decide between using it or quicken spell, which helps counter balance it.


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Diego Rossi wrote:


They couldn't have left Move out of the table, as it is a move action.

RAI? I agree that it should have been No, like it is for the Charge (that still provokes every time the charging character leaves a square).

But it is RAI.

Bad editing for 2 editions of the game as a minimum: 3.5 and Pathfinder.

At this point it is a circular argument:

RAI is -> but RAW say -> but RAI clearly is -> RAW still say ...

Unless someone can find the guy or guys that wrote that table and ask why it says Yes, I doubt anything can be added.
I suppose we will all continue using RAI.

Or we could you know, read the tables as what they actually are, quick reference resources, and not try to infer additional rules from them. Each item in the table has its own rules that better outlines when it does and does not provoke if it provokes. In the case of move, the rules spell out in no uncertain language that you provoke when leaving a threatened space. The act of performing a move action to move itself does not provoke it is the movement out of a threatened space that provokes. In general to specific rules hierarchy you can look at it as the inferred rule from the table is a general rule that move actions to move provoke, then the specific rule for movement is that you only provoke from moving out of a threatened space. This results in the action type itself not provoking (which there are no written rules that satiate it does, only your inferred rule from the quick reference table), and your movement provoking only when you leave a threatened square. The provoke from the movement rules satisfies the quick reference “yes” on the table.

This then gets followed up by the general rules for AoO that you can only provoke once per incident and each creature only gets one AoO per round. Combat Reflexes acts as a specific rule to trump this general rule giving you an additional number of AoOs equal to your Dex mod (note: it does say ADDITIONAL, meaning you now have 1+Dex mod), and adds an additional specific rule that movement can only provoke once per round per creature. This applies a new specific rule to the hierarchy of both AoOs in general and AoOs from movement.

The way you should be reading the table is as a reference guide. If it says it provokes, you should then navigate to the specific rules for that item on the table and follow the rules outlined there. The table itself does NOT create rules, it merely references them in a simplified format. Numerous items on the table should have actually had an entry of “maybe” or “see text” rather than “yes”… there are even some that the table says “no” on that their specific rules say otherwise.


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Simple breakdown of how detect magic works.

1) round 1 they can see magic auras but that is all. They have not had time to count them, nor have they had time to identify anything about them.
2) round 2 they have had time to count the auras and can distinguish each individual aura in an area.
3) round 3 they can roughly tell how strong each aura is.
Note: aura strength is based on effective spell level if it is a spell or caster level if it originated from an item. This does mean that spells cast from items use the items caster level.
4) they may now attempt to learn about the auras one per round with knowledge arcana checks. This check will ONLY tell them the school of magic.
5) IF they identify the spell school of an aura they can continue to identify the properties of a magic item.
Note: detect magic does NOT allow you to identify a spell effect only it’s aura.

You CAN however use your knowledge of the magic aura in conjunction with any knowledge you have of the spell effect to follow up with your own spellcraft check to try and identify the spell. But this is NOT an effect of detect magic, rather it is simply an application of the Spellcraft skill.

As to if you can use detect magic to see auras on yourself or not… that is an ambiguous grey area. On one hand, you very much are capable of visually examining yourself and as such should be able to see auras on your own person. On the otherhand, nothing in the rules state that a magic aura must encompass an entire entity or object, therefore an aura could potentially only encompass a part of your body that you are physically incapable of looking at (such as your head), and as such should not be able to be seen… Additionally it might not make sense in a setting for you to see your own auras, or auras on yourself… as the DM it is your judgment call as to if a player can or cannot see auras on themself. If players disagree politely remind them that as DM you are the final arbiter of any rules disputes, and you have ruled on this matter.


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Diego Rossi wrote:
AwesomenessDog wrote:
Which you can do, you'll just scry the stick figure drawing instead of actual Mona Lisa.

No, you won't. Scrying spy creatures, not objects.

Scrying wrote:
You can observe a creature at any distance.
plus, it doesn't say anything about scrying the wrong target. So, if you try to scry Anne, you either scry Anne or you don't scry anything, you will not scry Bob.

You might scry the wrong Anne though… if you are attempting to scry someone you have next to no knowledge of and have never actually seen or met anyways… depends on your GMs disposition…


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Using prestidigitation to create a likeness of someone is like drawing a stick figure and calling it a likeness of Mona Lisa.


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The way I see it, your infantry are primarily comprised of Fighters, Rangers (Divine Tracker), Monks, and Cavaliers… with fighters being the bulk of your foot soldiers, Rangers providing archery support, Cavaliers being exactly as their name suggests your cavalry, and Monks serving as squad leaders.
Above them you would have Warpriests and Omdura issuing commands to various squads. Between the two, Omdura would be lower on the command and travels with individual squads to provide oversite and support while the warpriest travels between squads.
Clerics and Oracles would largely fill a support and combat medic roll in a large army since out of everyone they would be the ones most suited to this task. Even though they CAN operate in any role, it would not be advised since their talents would most certainly be most needed as support and combat medic.
Paladins are absolutely among the leadership within such an army.
Inquisitors would similarly be among the leadership, however, they would typically take up positions either directly under or above a Paladin in the chain of command. Usually they would work under a Paladin, not because the Paladin needs to be over them to keep them in-line but because it is easier to undermine the Paladins authority and do things that you believe must be done that a Paladin will not if you are the one to issue the commands to your soldiers. Meanwhile the Inquisitors who operate above a Paladin do so to direct where the army is headed while simultaneously acting as a moral shield between the Paladin and whoever is actually leading the crusade.


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All wonderous items can be crafted using Spellcraft. Craft can be used as a substitute if the craft skill used can create the underlying armor (such as Craft(jewelry) for amulets)


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Personally, when it comes to gestalt casters I always advise doing any combination of the following:

1) pair a Spontaneous caster with a Prepared Caster. The reason for this is for the increased versatility. Use your spontaneous casters limited spells known for all your combat spells and make sure they get the highest CL and casting stat so you have good save DCs in combat. Meanwhile your spontaneous casting class can focus on utility spells and buffs, spells where CL is the only thing that matters. This opens up more combinations by not requiring both casting stats to be the same (though it is still recommended)

2) pair Arcane/Divine/Psychic… instead of taking two of the same type of caster mix and match… not only does this broaden your spell access but it can increase your combat options too. For instance, Divine casters always have 3/4 BAB, so your Wizard/Cleric will have an easier time landing any attack roll spell they cast than they would have had as a Wizard/Sorcerer. Psychic spellcasting enables you to keep casting when paralyzed, which is phenomenal… that said a Gestalt Psychic/Divine Spellcaster is probably the single best combination type in this regard…

3) pair a full caster with a partial caster that has good utility… Bard immediately springs to mind here… with this setup, you build primarily for your full caster, but you use the partial casting class to enhance your abilities and/or your party members. Similar to before, casting stat matching isn’t an issue here since your spells from your partial caster should be used for utility and buffs only, and since you would only get up to 6th level spells a 16 is plenty high enough and easy to get by the time you get your first 6th level spell.

4) single class caster with a pure mundane utility class… Wizard/Phantom Thief Rogue can be a good option… as you already know, casters don’t gain much from gestalt due to action economy issues… but with something like the phantom thief rogue who is pure utility, you can greatly increase your value in the party…

5) white haired witch + any other caster with touch spells… this is basically a martial Spellcaster on steroids… though it is highly advised to stick to Int based casters for this combination… long range melee touch spells is always nice though…

6) kineticist… simply pair a caster with kineticist… only pick up utility and buff spells and let your kinetic blast be your damage source… probably won’t feel like a gestalt Spellcaster in the long run though…

The most important rule…

ALWAYS pair your first choice with another class that gives you something you don’t already have… no point in playing a gestalt caster with two near identical classes…


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The classes I most associate to nobility are Bard, Swashbuckler, Cavalier, and petless Rangers…

Bard makes sense for your aloof young nobles who are quick to abandon their duties in favor of frivolous activities.

Swashbuckler fits for nobles who fancy themselves as skilled swordsmen, even if they are the type to hide behind their body guard when real danger arises.

Cavaliers are for the battle hardened nobles who served their kingdoms as knights, these nobles while still carrying themselves with an air of superiority are quick to defend those in need as they truly know how rough life is.

Petless Rangers… these are your Nobles who love the thrill of a hunt but know little about actual combat.

Of course a noble could be of any class, it’s just that these ones fit for your various different stereotypical nobles.


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No. And quite frankly I believe a lot of people give rogue a bad rep through a misunderstanding of how the class functions.

Rogues are not meant to be in your face fighters, they are designed to be flankers. When playing a rogue you should always be flanking with someone, this brings up your to-hit slightly and is a massive improvement to your damage output. Ideally you would either finish weakened foes off or put them so low that the next hit from anyone will finish them.

Rogues low HP encourages you to utilize cover and concealment. The harder it is to hit you the safer you are, and since rogues are primarily melee combatants (when it comes to combat) you are at greater risk as a rogue than as a squishier class such as wizard. Also, a d8 is not a bad HD, D8 is average… remember only Barbarian gets a d12 HD, so realistically d10 is the top end HD, with barbarian being an outlier.

Rogues have the most skill points out of anyone, with even just a moderate INT a rogue can easily fill out all of their “necessity” skills and have points left over for things like knowledge skills. And honestly, rogues should put a few points into knowledges… specifically Dungeoneering, Engineering, and Arcana… Dungeoneering because it includes some of the most common Crit Immune creatures, thus making it easier for the rogue to know when they will be the weakest link in combat, but also because you can use Dungeoneering to learn about various methods traps and hidden doors might be disguised. Engineering and Arcana both similarly include various common crit immune enemies and can aid with problems such as locks and magical traps. Sometimes it is better to roll a Knowledge check on a lock or trap first before attempting to roll disable device… you can learn how hard it will be to disable with a lower knowledge check than your disable device check would need to be to actually disable it… and depending on the DC of the lock/trap you might find yourself better off avoiding it for now.

Now… slayers and swashbucklers both are designed to be effectively more combat oriented rogues… they lose out on skill points and gain better combat proficiency. The slayer has a weaker sneak attack, but can land theirs without always needing to flank or have a flat footed target due to studied target… this fact actually makes slayers better ranged combatants than rogues, since a rogue has a hard time setting up a ranged sneak attack. Swashbucklers are all in melee combatants, with some of the most potent tricks in the game for avoiding damage as well as some pretty solid damage output.


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In simplest terms possible…

Flurry of blows is performed as part of the full attack action. The full attack action is a specific full round action. Spell combat is also a specific full round action. You do not perform a full attack action when you spell combat and as such cannot apply effects that require the use of the full attack action during spell combat.

Flurry of Blows = Full Attack Action
Full Attack Action = Full Round Action
Spell Combat = Full Round Action
Spell Combat =\= Full Attack Action
Full Round Action =\= Full Attack Action

While you can combine multiple abilities that use the Full Attack Action, you cannot combine multiple abilities that use a Full Round Action. Nor can you combine an ability that uses a Full Round Action with an ability that uses the Full Attack Action (unless said full round action ability specifically states that you perform a full attack action as part of it)

Spell combat grants the same number of attacks as a standard full attack action with two weapon fighting, but it does not function as a full attack action.


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You could still pull off ambushes even with the rogue scouting ahead. Remember, combat doesn’t have to start the moment the party enters a room that has enemies. Also keep in mind, a heavily armored Paladin with a war bull makes a lot of noise, and dungeon walls create echoes, so enemies up ahead will almost always know you are coming before the rogue scouts them out. With enemies forewarned they can adequately hide and wait for the most opportune moment to ambush the party. This gives your enemies an opportunity to get in close to the back line before the frontline can make a wall. Another option is to ambush the rogue as they are scouting ahead (depending on how far ahead they go) forcing the rest of the party to rush in blind but only if they hear it (the party doesn’t magically know combat started if they are not engaged themselves)… ambushing the scout can easily result in a couple rounds of only one PC engaged in combat. Having this happen even once will of course make the rogue more wary of scouting ahead too much causing them to stick closer to the rest of the party, this might seem bad at a glance but this is actually to your advantage as it reduces the time the party has to prepare for an encounter allowing you to better take advantage of poor placement to get at the back row.

Also… remember, just because the rogue gets in on the surprise round does not automatically mean the rest of the party does, nor does it mean the enemy looses their surprise round. Take advantage of the surprise round to move in close to to the back row. Unless the PCs have Combat Reflexes or Uncanny Dodge they can’t make AoOs until after they have their first turn, giving you ample time to move in and push past the frontline.

Another tactic is to only have ranged enemies come out of hiding at first… be sure to build these foes to withstand a few rounds of attacks from the ranged characters in the party though… the idea here is to lure the front liners out away from the back row so that your melee enemies can get to them when they leap out.


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Claxon wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with extrapolating from the very broad statement of "a SLA functions just like a spell" to make conclusions, but I would rule that feeblemind would prevent any charisma or int based SLAs from functioning but any wisdom based SLAs (do any exist?) would still be usable. But that's just my personal take, and I don't think that is meted out within the rules. I just don't really like how powerful the feeblemind spell is, so chipping away at it's effectiveness is something I like.

Your ruling would create an inconsistency in how Feeblemind functions. As written it blocks ALL spellcasting, not just Int & Cha based spellcasting. A Wisdom based spellcaster might not have had their casting stat reduced to 1, but they still can't cast spells until the effects of Feeblemind have been removed. Because of this it makes no sense to create an exception for non-int/cha based SLAs. It either blocks all SLA usage or none... I could see a ruling of only blocking SLAs that replicate actual spells though, as there are a suprisingly large number of class features and racial abilities labled as (Sp) that wouldn't make a lot of sense to suddenly lose just because your brain has been rewired...


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Chark the Shark wrote:

15th Level Rogue - keep in mind this is my AC for 1 round against 1 opponent which I have hit 5 times to get the offensive/defense bonus

Armor +9 Celestial Armor
Deflect +2 Ring of Prot
Dex +8
Shield +2 +1 Buckler
Dodge +3 Fight Def
Dodge +45 Offensive Defense (since self-nerfed as this is ridiculous)
Base +10
Nat Armor +5 Amulet

84 AC
84 Flat Footed (cant be flat footed
68 Touch

You might want to reread offensive defense… it can’t ever grant more than a +10… and for your 15th level rogue it caps out at +8. Hitting multiple times does NOT grant a larger bonus. It specifically states that it does NOT stack with itself. Hitting 5 times results in 8=8=8=8=8=+8 it does not result in 8+8+8+8+8=+45.


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Senko wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Magical Knack can be useful for Paladins and Rangers. Their caster level is three behind their character level even if they are singled classed.

Dipping for a level or two is not that bad, but anything more than that really weakens the character. You can actually make a pretty decent arcane trickster type character without actually taking the prestige class. Take a level or two in unchained rogue and go Wizard after that. A single level of unchained rouge will give you the class skills of a rogue and weapon finesse and trap finding. Wizards get plenty of skill points due to their high INT so that allows you to get some decent skills. Your spell progression will be slightly behind that of other wizards, but about equal to a sorcerer. You won’t have the BAB of a rouge, but who cares because in combat you are a wizard, not a rouge. Out of combat is where you function as a rouge.

Really I knew they didn't get spells till higher levels but I don't normally play them so I thought their caster level was still equal to their paladin/ranger class level.

It is stated near the end of their spells ability.

Paladin wrote:
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.
Ranger wrote:
Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his ranger level – 3.

They are the only ones who have a reduced CL… the other 4th level casters get full CL… Medium because they actually get Cantrips and Bloodrager because of their Bloodline… heck even the Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter gets full CL

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