Cayzle's page

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Yuletide Bloodline

A merry spirit has blessed you and your family with the deep magic of good will to all and peace between enemies. You are inspired to grant gifts and bring joy to others -- on the darkest days, and all the year round.

Class Skill: Sense Motive.

Bonus Spells: restful sleep (3rd), calm emotions (5th), good hope (7th), scrying (9th), oath of peace (11th), legend lore (13th), mass fly (15th), euphoric tranquility (17th), wish (19th).

Bonus Feats: Bodyguard, Combat Expertise, Craft Wondrous Item, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip), In Harm's Way, Magical Aptitude, Merciful Spell, Swift Aid.

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a harmless or merciful spell on a living creature, you gain temporary hit points equal to the spell's level. These stack with other temporary hit points and last until used or until the next time you ready your daily spell slots.

Bloodline Powers: The blood of certain northern elves runs through your ancestry, inspiring a jolly family tradition of peace, good will, and giving to others.

Change of Heart (Sp): At 1st level, when you touch an evil, unconscious and helpless creature for one minute, you can change his or her alignment to good (it remains lawful, neutral, or chaotic). The target's attitude toward you becomes (or remains) hostile.

Naughty or Nice? (Sp): At 3rd level, you can detect evil, as the spell. You can, as a move action, focus on a single individual that is within 60 feet or that you are scrying and determine if he or she is naughty (evil) or nice (not evil), learning the strength of the creature's aura as if having studied it for three rounds. While focusing on one individual, you learn only about that individual.

Caroling (Ex): At 9th level, you may use Perform (Song) instead of Diplomacy to change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters. Also, as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you can make a Perform (Song) check vs DC10 to give a +2 bonus to AC, saving throws, and effective level of those using bardic performance; this +2 aid another bonus lasts for one round per sorcerer level.

Wish List (Su): At 15th level, focusing your Naughty or Nice? power on a creature also reveals 1d3 things that would make the target most happy -- these are usually objects (sometimes expensive, sometimes not) but could include events or actions. If you fulfill a creature's desire from this list, by giving a gift or arranging for an action or event, his or her attitude toward you changes by one level.

Peace on Earth (Sp): At 20th level, once per day you can cast a form of calm emotions that affects all creatures, allies and foes, within line of sight. Those in contact with the ground gain no benefit from spell resistance, immunity, or saving throw; those in the air are affected as if by a 9th level spell for determining the saving throw and effectiveness. This power lasts for one hour and does not require concentration.

Source and links: Cayzle's Wemic Site

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I would like to offer some common ground on which I think we can all find agreement.

We agree that neither darkvision nor low-light vision defeats total cover, right?

So our Shadowdancer retrieves a wooden box, 5'x5'x5' from her portable hole. She sets it down, lights the candle inside it, and closes the lid. No one can see inside the box.

A candle, of course, by RAW, illuminates a 5 ft area with dim light.

So everybody agrees that she can Hide In Plain Sight within 10 ft of her box, until the candle goes out, right?

I call it Schrödinger's Candle. It works until someone with darkvision opens the box to observes the candle. That collapses the Wave Function. Of course, "The Wave" is the name of the dance that the Shadowdancer uses to make Hide in Plain Sight function.

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In general, no, you cannot use a Tower Shield that you have set down.

HOWEVER, there are ways to get COVER, which is almost as good.

Shrink Item can be made permanent, so that you can shrink and expand it at will. Get something as big as you can shrink (or hire a mage to shrink for you). Give it permanent shrink item. Carry it in your hand. On a given combat round, drop it as a free action. Dropping a shrunk item expands it. Now you have cover! Later, when you want to shrink it again, say the command word.

For all your legal tower shield needs consider this screed I wrote not too long ago: Tower Shield Pointers

For my series on sweet sweet ways to get the most out of Shrink Item, read this: Shrinky Dinks!

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Dear faulkbeets and any other players,

The problem about most message board games is that you apply and apply, and that can be discouraging. Also, even worse, once you get accepted, sometimes (often) the game fizzles out. Well, I have a solution to both those problems if you like core Pathfinder gaming.

The Wold is a long running Dungeons and Dragons campaign world that emphasizes play by post gaming and a commitment to write one game turn every weekday. We are a community of about 60 gamers in eight long-running games, and we are looking for new members.

What do you need to know about the Wold?

• We are here to stay! The campaign dates back to 1985, and we have online archives back to 1996. We have lower level games and higher; and we are welcoming of new players as well as writers and RPers and power-gaming vets.

• We are free! There’s no cost to join and no test to pass. Check out some of the links below, and if you like us, you are in. As our founder, Jerry says, “There is no tryout or application. My experience is that those players who stay are the ones who would have passed any application or tryout anyway. So I let the players weed themselves out or remain to become a permanent player.”

• We offer a very rich gaming experience! We have our own homegrown gods, nations, races, and peoples; we have custom classes, spells, feats, items, and more — all detailed in our own wiki. We play by the Pathfinder flavor of the Dungeons and Dragons rules these days, but we are eager and glad to teach players who need help.

• We focus on heroic themes! All our player characters are Good. Feel free to create a troubled and conflicted character, so long as you are interested in redemption, nobility, and overcoming obstacles to become a true hero.

• We are a friendly community of people from all over the world, from all walks of life, and of all ages! The gaming groups that stick together over time are the ones in which players become friends, and we encourage that.

Check out the following links to get started:

Woldian Games

The Woldipedia

For more information, please e-mail me and site owner Jerry:



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Byakko wrote:

Quick note to correct your "Takeaway B":

That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only.
So it has no impact on your enemies' ability to target your allies. Your foes can still attack through it as long as they don't target you.

True, good point, but if you are holding a doorway or a narrow passage, AND the enemy has no ranged attacks, it amounts to the same thing. Which is to say, utility of the Tower Shield varies with the tactical situation. I like to do things like use a Tree Feather Token or created wall to narrow a gap, then hold the gap with a set tower shield. If you are Enlarged, your shield is twice as wide, and that can be very useful too.

And if your ally can Spring Attack or shoot or use a reach weapon through your space, so much the better.

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I strongly urge you to throw away the "advanced race guide" when creating quadruped taurs such as centaurs and liontaurs. The so-called guide imposes a HYUUUUUGE cost for being large, and a very small cost for reach. If you make a large quadruped with no reach, you pay for the advantage you do not get.

Personally, I recommend using homebrew options for centaurs (and liontaurs). Here's a centaur option in brief:

Adaptable Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence, +2 one other ability score (not Wis or Int).

Large: Centaurs are large sized, with a five-foot reach.

Normal Speed: Centaurs have a base speed of 50 feet (35 feet in armor).

Natural Armor: Centaurs have a +1 Natural Armor Bonus.

Tough: Centaurs gain Toughness as a racial feat.

Natural Attacks: two hoof attacks for 1d6 damage, bludgeoning. Critical 20 x2.

Vison: Low Light Vision

Natural: +2 racial bonus on Survival skill checks

Awkward: -2 racial penality on Climb skill checks

Tauric Form (Ex): Centaurs cannot make use of any footwear and do not have the Foot slot. They may, however, wear magical horse shoes. They also may not wear normal or magical pants.

Mounted (Ex): All Centaurs are always treated as mounted, and they can use equipment and combat actions as if mounted. Further, all centaurs are considered to have the Mounted Combat feat for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. This ability does not, however, grant the abilities of the Mounted Combat feat.

Undersized Weapons (Ex) Although a centaur is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size (Medium for most centaurs).

Centaur begin play speaking Centaur and Tauric. Centaur with high intelligence scores can choose from the following: Common, Minotaur, Liontaur. Note that Centaur do not automatically know Common.

These rules and more can be found here:



Those are links to player character race options for an online campaign setting called The Wold. It's a message board play-by-post campaign with about 75 players in 10 games all set in the same setting. And we're always looking for players, especially Taurs!

(You can even play a minotaur, with reach!)

You can find much more liontaur content at Cayzle's Wemic Site.


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Recall that before D&D 3.0 came out, there was an extensive testing period. And after WotC released D&D 3.0, after seeing how it really played in actual games, the company released D&D 3.5. Then, after seeing how 3.5 went, Paizo released PF. Core PF could well be considered D&D 3.75.

My point is, look at the round after round of playtesting, and round after round of fixes! Some people have said that Core is as broken as the Splat Book options. I firmly disagree. Core has been through the wringer and come out the other side a MUCH more balanced game.

Just look at the rules for special attacks, for polymorphing, for certain classes (ranger and bard especially). Extensive genuine thorough playtesting makes all the difference, especially followed by really refining through fixes (not just patches.

I personally would like to see Paizo go through all its splat book content and apply the same refining energy that it put into turning D&D 3.5 into PF.

I am somewhat biased against splat books, I admit. I refer those interested to a screed I wrote for my blog: All Splat Books Are Bad


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AFAIK, the term "wemic" is WotC intellectual property, which is one reason that wemics seldom make it into new versions and third party works under that name. However, the idea of a "lion centaur" or "liontaur" dates back to Ancient Assyria, with more mentions in medieval and renaissance art (including Shakespeare).

There is no reason you cannot have liontaurs in your game. And I have lots of liontaur stats for D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. Here is my collection of rules for playing wemics from all around the Internets:

Here are my own rules for wemics as 3E monters:

Here are my suggestions for playing wemics in 3E:

My rules for playing wemics (aka liontaurs) in Pathfinder are on page 70 of my free PF prestige class splat book.

Email me if you need more help: cayzle@cayzle.com.

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I see that a common trend these days is to convert prestige classes into archetypes, or to rely on archetypes instead of PrCs. But I think this neglects a real strength of the PrC: A well-designed prestige class is available to many classes, but an archetype is intended only for one.

So if you want your idea to be freely available to a wider range of players, give your creation a variety of entry points, through a variety of base classes ... via a prestige class.

(And although I know that multi-classing is not fashionable these days, this old-school grognard still loves the clever multiclass build. Without being too powerful!)

Speaking of balanced PrCs, I just released today my new prestige class PDF book for the Pathfinder RPG. It has 12 prestige classes as well as a chapter on playing liontaurs as a race in Pathfinder. It has NOT been playtested, however, so I'm not only looking to give it away for free, but I'm also looking for playtesters to give it a whirl.

The final version of the book (release planned for mid-August) will also be free, but playtesters will get a warm thank you and shout out in the credits, so you got that going for ya ... and I'm hoping some people will want to give it some play time and criticism. I'm dedicated to the proposition that prestige classes can be fun and attractive without power inflation!

I'm running a couple playtest games myself via play-by-post, so I'd welcome volunteers for that too.

The book is Cayzle's Little Splat Book Of Prestige & Class. Please click to check out this free 80-page, 30,000-word PDF.

Contact me here or via email at cayzle@cayzle.com.

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Looking over this old thread, I see at the top of the page it says, "Answered in the FAQ" ... but when I search the Advanced Player's Guide FAQ, I cannot find anything on the topic. Or in any other FAQ.

Anyone know where this topic has been resolved by a FAQ entry?

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ShinHakkaider wrote:
Cayzle wrote:
Because there were no competing RPGs in the 1980s.


Were you actually around in the 80's? Because while D&D was the most popular I distinctly remember playing a whole lot of other games alongside D&D. Some of those games? Were other TSR games! TOP SECRET. BOOT HILL. STAR FRONTIERS. MARVEL SUPER HEROES.


So are you just forgetting that there were these other games out there? Some of which are STILL around today?

Excellent point, and I miss-typed. I was comparing the current level of Tabletop RPGers then to the total of Tabletop and Video RPGers now. I should have been much clearer and said, "Because there were no competing video RPGs in the 1980s. All that pent-up demand was satisfied by many pen and paper systems, especially 1E D&D."

Thanks for keeping me honest!

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houstonderek wrote:
Here's all I will say about the OGL. It was a nice thing for WotC to do when they were still an independent, run by gamers for gamers. But, honestly, other than helping small companies make some money off of gaming they might not have been able to do like they did in the Eighties when everyone had their own system or had to get licensing to publish D&D stuff (Judge's Guild, Mayfair Games with "Role Aids", etc), it really wasn't a great business decision.

In my opinion, it did not just help small companies. It also strengthened the hobby, brought more people into the game, injected huge amounts of creativity, enriched the D&D experience, and of course led to the Pathfinder game we now enjoy.

Was it a sound business decision for WOTC? Ryan Dancey says it was:

Ryan Dancey wrote:
In all of 1989, when TSR transitioned from the 1st to the 2nd Edition of D&D, it sold 289,000 copies of the Players Handbook. In 2000 when Wizards of the Coast did that transition from 2nd to 3rd, it sold 300,000 Player’s handbooks in one month. And then, sales continued to grow. The core idea behind the OGL was that Wizards of the Coast should focus on the highest value part of the D&D ecology – the core books and a handful of core adventures, while the rest of the industry explored and exploited all the niches and genres that Wizards couldn’t do profitability.

Go read the rest of his long great article on how the OGL contributed to the great success of D&D3.0.

houstonderek wrote:
The OGL spoiled us, we need to stop feeling like everything should be "open source" or it isn't right. ... Seriously, as much as I have no love for Hasbro, I'm not going to slam them if they don't have a completely open license, or only open it up for fan generated non-profit creative endeavors. It's their game, they have the right, and it isn't "evil" or "wrong" for them to control their brand.

I agree with Derek that the OGL "spoiled" us. Which is to say, it is a superior option that satisfies fans. I also agree with Derek that Hasbro is under no obligation to release D&D Next with an OGL. But in my not-so-humble opinion, I also have no obligation to buy it. I did not buy 4.0, and I now expect not to buy 5.0. I expect that without an OGL, a LOT of fans will vote, like I will, with our wallets, and stick to Pathfinder and other OGL products.

That's the greatest part of the OGL -- it guaranteed that D&D 3.0 at least will be available for ever.

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So what about D&D Next? Will Hasbro learn from history and put out the next version under an OGL? Or will the corporate types that gave us D&D4 again work to keep the game under lock and key, closed to third party developers? Well, there's no definitive answer yet, but as I shake my handy Magic 8 Ball, well, "Outlook not so good."

Just yesterday, May 29, 2014, we got a blog post on the OGL issue from Mike Mearls, lead developer for D&D Next. Titled "Gazing into the Crystal Ball," Mearls basically says that the issue has not been decided yet, please give him and Hasbro time to get things right, and we'll have an answer next year. But if you read the blog post carefully, there are a number of things that just strike a sour sour note. Read between the lines with me …

First off, the entire thing reads like it went through three layers of lawyers. It's not quite up to NSA levels of obfuscation and misdirection, but the tone is just … off. Discouraging, in my opinion.

Mearls says, "we want to empower D&D fans to create their own material and make their mark on the many, exciting worlds of D&D." That sounds great, but look at what he does NOT say! He does not say he wants to empower third party companies to produce product materials. It's all about the fans, not about being as open as an actual OGL would be.

Meals continues, "we want to ensure that the quality of anything D&D fans create is as high as possible." What does THAT mean?! How can Hasbro "ensure" that "anything" D&D fans create is high quality? Under D&D3 and the OGL, there was no quality compliance mechanism -- and a lot of crap product was produced! But we were free to make crap. This "ensuring" that "fans" produce high quality material sounds vaguely Orwellian and strikingly NOT OGL compliant!

Here's my personal prediction, more detailed than a Magic 8 Ball. Hasbro will announce a registration or subscription service for D&D "fans" -- and allow widespread "publication" of fan-created works only within that walled garden. No third party products at all. And that's going to be just sad.

To be fair, Mearls is asking for some time, so we'll see. I hope I am wrong.

For a deeper look at the background on this topic, check out my blog post on the subject.

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The eidolon looks like a human adventurer. Use a Hat of Disguise and a nonmagical headband to hide the forehead tattoo.

The character uses wildshape to stay always in the form of a tiny hawk or cat.

The player pretends the eidolon is the character, and the druid is the familiar / animal companion.

If you play as a druid with a companion from the get go, then adopt this strat at level 7 with druid 6/summoner 1 (or druid 4/summoner 1 with a vest for extra wildshape), and if you give your eidolon both the hat of disguise and disguise as a class skill and +8 racial bonus to disguise, then your eidolon can impersonate you and your fellow adventurers will never know!

Then "you" with your low hp will likely die and disappear into thin air at some point. Then reappear the next morning. You can explain that you had a contingent teleport ready for if you were about to get hit with a mortal blow.

Or after "you" die you can still cast spells as a cat and summon things, and no one will know how you are doing it "from the grave." You can pretend that the DM let you cast spells as a ghost. And that the next morning you raised yourself.

Both funny AND effective! Who's going to suspect or attack the cute little harmless kitty hiding over there?

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Let me add that the RAW simply do not cover the wide range of actions a player can envision and try. I'm all in favor of a player trying to cudgel the orc next to him with a spear butt. Or trying to poke out an enemy's eye with a blowgun dart. Those are totally wonderful in-game actions to try!

The resolution to player creativity is NOT to say, "sorry, you cannot do that because it is outside the rules." Rather, the better answer is for the DM to wing it and come up with something on the fly. That's a perfectly great solution, really it is.

My point is that you cannot point to the game and say, "Here's where the rules say I can spear-butt that orc." Rather, you can point to the DM and say, "Hey, why don't we use the improvised weapon rules to adjudicate this idea I had."

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MrTsFloatinghead wrote:
Cayzle wrote:

I totally agree with this! The DM at the table has the freedom to do all kinds of Rule Zero stuff to make the game great. No prob.

Just don't tell me the rules as written allow it. Instead, say that you houseruled it because you wanted to have a cool game.

So, basically, you are totally cool with it and have no problem with it, but it's totally not allowed and is merely an unofficial house rule.

Hmm... that sounds like an attempt to claim to be one thing (totally fine with it), while at the same time doing the exact opposite (making a judgement against it).

If you truly agree with me that it is totally fine and acceptable, then what possible utility does adding "don't tell me the rules as written allow it" have? Why even bother including that bit? Why not just say "I have no problem with it" and leave it at that?

If you are a DM using Rule Zero to mod your game, then you are gold.

If you are a player trying to convince your DM that the rules allow you to use a spear haft as an improvised weapon, then I'm here to say you are wrong.

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Remy Balster wrote:

True statement time:

A spear shaft is not a spear.
A spear is a weapon.
A spear shaft is not a weapon.
A spear shaft is an object.
A spear shaft is an object and not a weapon.
Attacking with an object is allowed by RAW.
Weapon rules cover attacking with a weapon.
Improvised Weapon rules cover attacking with an object that is not a weapon.
Since a spear shaft is an object, and is not a weapon, if you attack with it you use Improvised Weapon rules.

Sorry, this is not a true statement. A spear shaft is not an object. It does not exist in the game aside perhaps from flavor text. You cannot draw a spear shaft or sunder a spear shaft or cast mending on a spear shaft or store a spear shaft. You cannot polymorph an object into a spear shaft. If you did somehow make a spear shaft, it would be an object with no use, unless you added a point, at which time it would become a spear and cease to be a spear shaft.

A spear with its shaft are one object. They cannot be considered separately. That's because they have one common hit point total. If the spear is sundered, it gains the broken condition. If you cast mending, it affects the spear. If you want to draw your spear, you do not need a separate action to draw your haft.

If you want to create a weapon that is a double weapon that can be used with reach with one end and not with reach with another, that's fine. Just don't call it a longspear.

Apocryphile wrote:

Next time I'm running a game (which is tomorrow), if a player asks if their PC can smack their opponent with the haft of their spear/polearm, I'll do the the following:

I'll see if I can picture it in my head. Check.
Does it look awesome? Check (well, awesome enough)
Can I use the rules to provide for this awesome action the player wishes to make? Check.

It's all good! The player gets to try to do something awesome, everyone has a great time!

I totally agree with this! The DM at the table has the freedom to do all kinds of Rule Zero stuff to make the game great. No prob.

Just don't tell me the rules as written allow it. Instead, say that you houseruled it because you wanted to have a cool game.

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Really, the game breaking issue here is not whether using a "spear haft" (a meaningless term for the game, but whatever) is a suboptimal option or not.

The issue is that if you CAN use a longspear as a non-reach improvised weapon, then you can threaten adjacent squares. If you can threaten adjacent squares, then your options for flanking and taking AoOs and using Aid Another all get wider.

Reach weapons are designed and intended to NOT threaten adjacent squares. Their use for AoOs and Aid Another and Flanking is intentionally limited.

If you decide as a house rule that reach weapons can be used as improvised weapons too, and that switching back and forth between "modes" is trivial, then you have just removed major limitations on reach weapons.

But in fact, RAW, and RAI, the designers do NOT want you to use reach weapons to threaten adjacent squares. They tell us that specifically! "Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square."

If, all of a sudden, you CAN attack an adjacent square with a reach weapon, you are violating the letter and intent of the reach weapon rules. That right there is enough, really, to make a convincing argument against the idea, IMNSHO.

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Some folks have called for two answers:

"You cannot use a manufactured weapon as an improvised weapon. I would like you to show me that in the rule book."

No problem. In fact, I have already posted it, and we have all looked at it already. But here goes:

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object.

Look right there! the definition, right there, of an improvised weapon is an object not crafted to be a weapon. Weapons, on the other hand, are crafted to be weapons. Think of it as a geometric proof:

An improvised weapon is one not crafted to be a weapon.

A weapon is crafted to be a weapon.

Therefore a weapon cannot be an improvised weapon.


While you are at it I would like you to show me the game definition of "object" from the rule book.

No problem.

First off, the rules say that everything is either a creature or an object (constructs and intelligent magic items kind of bridge the gap, but I hope you will concede that this grey area is not relevant to the discussion.)

Second, I hope we can all agree that the terms "item" and "object" are used interchangeably in the rules. For example, this sentence about breaking things:

Damaged Objects: A damaged object remains functional with the broken condition until the item's hit points are reduced to 0, at which point it is destroyed.

Item = Object.

Next, consider the rules for the broken condition:

Broken: Items that have taken damage in excess of half their total hit points gain the broken condition, meaning they are less effective at their designated task. The broken condition has the following effects, depending upon the item.

If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.

If the item is a suit of armor or a shield, the bonus it grants to AC is halved, rounding down. Broken armor doubles its armor check penalty on skills.

If the item is a tool needed for a skill, any skill check made with the item takes a –2 penalty.

If the item is a wand or staff, it uses up twice as many charges when used.

If the item does not fit into any of these categories, the broken condition has no effect on its use. Items with the broken condition, regardless of type, are worth 75% of their normal value.

Also consider the rules for Smashing an Object. All these rules set out the properties of objects:

Objects are those things that can gain the broken condition. Of items that can be broken, one class is weapons. All weapons are objects; not all objects are weapons. All objects have one hit point total, used to determine when an object gains the broken condition (there is an exception for very large objects, like buildings, that does not apply here).

The rules do not let you consider a "part of an object" because a spear haft does not have its own hit point total. Damage does not apply to a part of the whole.

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Have you considered Baleful Polymorph and/or Wildshape that you always keep on? Both are great options for playing a cat in the rules.

If you want to play a cat in body only, the wildshape option is great. Or intentionally fail the fort BP save but make the Will BP save.

If you want to be a cat in mind and body, intentionally fail both BP saves.

It is even quite cheap. You can get, by RAW, a 9th level wizard to cast BP on you for a mere 10gp x 5 x 9 = 450 gp! Sweet!

You can even be a spellcaster (if you make the will save) if you are a deaf oracle who only casts spells with verbal components. Grab Magical Lineage and Still Spell for even more flexibility.

Use spell like abilities (gnome, rogue talent) to use ghost sound to talk, when you have to. Or go for deaf oracle / sorcerer (eschew materials comes in handy) and cast still silent ghost sound in a first level slot.

With the sweet +8 to stealth and +4 to dex, make sure you are sneaky!

Use your tiny size to enter the spaces of enemies and even walk right through (though you provoke AoOs to do so).

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I apologize for what I am about to say, but those examples seem silly.

If your "spear" is a decoration, then it was not crafted for use as a weapon, thus it is not a weapon, thus it has no reach, thus it is always treated as an improvised weapon if you pick it up with intent to harm.

And to argue that a "fabricated" item is not a "crafted" item is absurd.

If these are the thin reeds on which your position stands, then I respectfully submit that you are not actually debating in good faith.

The rules are clear: No spear, and no item listed in the weapon tables, can ever be an improvised weapon.

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Well, the question here seems to hinge on the definition of an "improvised weapon." This Core Rule is actually very clear on that.

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object.

A spear is crafted to be used as a weapon. Therefore it cannot be an improvised weapon, per the Core Pathfinder Rules.

The only exception I know is the Monk of the Empty Hand, but even here the point is not at issue. All weapons except shuriken are treated as improvised weapons for this monk, and you can never use an improvised weapon as a reach weapon.

So the definition of an improvised weapon is an object NOT crafted to be a weapon. Since a longspear is clearly crafted to be a weapon, it cannot be an improvised weapon.

Think of a venn diagram. In one circle are weapons. in another circle, not overlapping, with no intersection, is everything else. Only objects in the second circle can be improvised weapons.

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I want to play a Deaf Oracle / Summoner. You can pay a wizard to cast Baleful Poly for a very reasonable price, per Core. So get BP cast on yourself -- bat is a great choice. Make sure you make your Will save, and arrange ahead of time for a dispel if you do not. You get +6 dex, -4 str, +1 nat AC, diminutive = +4 AC, +4 attacks, etc. Plus low light vision, blindsense 20 ft, and flight.

You are deaf, so all your spells are silent for free. Take the trait that lets you cast one spell with a meta feat at -1 level cost. Make it CLW and still spell. Now you can cast still silent light, spark, CLW, true strike, feather fall, blur, displacement, oracle's burden, blindness/deafness, darkness, deeper darkness, grace, borrow fortune, dim door, etc etc all at zero extra level cost. And you can use your Still Spell feat to cast others.

Make your eidolon a biped with robes, a hat that covers his forehead, and tons of UMD. Voila! You tell your pals you meet you are an oracle/sorcerer/MT (the eidolon) with a familiar (you!)

Sweet strat: Cast True Strike, share it with the eidolon, and then have the eidolon attack in the same round. Tell your pals you have the ability to cast quickened true strikes! Ditto quickened CLWs, etc etc. :-)

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This comes too late for the discussion, but others looking here for info in the future may be interested in this screed on the origins of lamia in mythology and in D&D, at Cayzle's Wemic Site.


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The only spell like that in PF Core is Baleful Poly, which does have a chance to change your mind (Fort save to resist the change, then Will save to keep your mind).

BP is the Poor Man's PAO, if you are willing to voluntarily fail the Fort save and then try your darndest to make the Will save. That opens up the option of permanent bird forms, something PAO cannot do, seeing as a mammal is not a bird.

You, per core, can pay a druid or wizard to cast BP for just 5*9*10 = 450 gp. If you take the trait that gives you 900 gp starting cash, you can in theory pay for your birdie shape before play begins. And if your Will save fails, make a new character, no harm done. A new character who happens to be exactly the same as your old character, and who also buys a BP. Eventually you'll make that Will save.

Any old grognards out there remember Traveller? It was a space opera game that gave you a chance to die during character creation. Kinda like that.

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Give that Owl Muleback Cords, Cast Ant Haul on it, and it has an equivalent Str 14 and triple capacity ... 87 lbs as a light load. If you are a gnome or a halfling or cast Reduce Person on yourself, your owl can pick you up and fly you around, easy peasy. Cheap flight at level 1.

Also, if you are small, Reduce Person on yourself and Enlarge Person shared with your familiar gives you a flying mount at level 1, for a minute at least.

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If you cast Mage Hand on a 1 lb non-magical saucer, you can float it around, right? What if there is a 1 lb teacup on the saucer? Can you still move the saucer around, with the teacup? What if a 2 lb kitten is on the saucer? What if the kitten is wearing a magic item?

Say you're an average female halfling, which by Core RAW means you are 2 ft 11 in tall and you weigh 30 lbs. You cast Reduce Person on yourself, so that you are now 1 ft 5.5 in tall and you weigh 3 lb 10 oz (Tiny size). If you sit on the saucer, can you Mage Hand it around, in essence riding your flying saucer as if it were a flying carpet with a move of 15 and requiring concetration?

Could you cast Unseen Servant and have your Servant carry you around? How high off the ground can it lift you?

What if, while you are reduced, you use Disguise Self to make yourself appear one foot shorter? Now you appear to be 5.5 inches tall -- Diminutive size, or maybe even Fine. Can you accrue any of the modifiers for being Diminutive or Fine? A Tiny creature has a +8 on Stealth checks, and a Diminutive one has a +12 … would you grant a bonus to Stealth to the 5.5-inch-seeming reduced halfling? How about if you are also floating around with a Mage Hand? That's gotta be pretty quiet.

Say you make or buy a Mithril or Darkwood box with airholes on all sides that weighs 10 lbs. Say you are a reduced female halfling weighing 3 lb 10 oz. Your Unseen Servant can carry 20 lbs. Can you hop in the box, gaining the benefit of improved cover, and let your Servant carry you around? While you cast spells and fire teensy crossbow bolts from inside through the airholes? Since you have improved cover in your box, you are immune to AoOs and can make Stealth checks in there, right? You can even snipe from in there, right?

Thanks in advance for the comments!