Based on my experiences, most of my opponents have 'Won't' saves.
Let us remember powered armors like the mjolnir from halo have a miniature nuclear reactor, costing as much as a frigate each suit. So we cant differentiate mecha from power armors By power plant or if they can support their own weight, like in d20 modern. Paizo Has done a good enough job distinguishing the 2. We all know they won’t go back and rewrite all of the released material, so let’s look to the future not the past.
Halo naming conventions mean nothing for Starfinder. In Starfinder the difference is the power plant. Nothing outside the Starfinder rules has any say on how Starfinder mechs and power armor must behave, unless you house rule it in. Starfinder is Starfinder. Gundam is Gundam, Halo is Halo. Voltron is Voltron. They are each separate things, so please keep that in mind.
Because a power plant does not fit on powered armor. THAT is the big difference. The structural reinforcement to support it, and the insulation/radiation shielding required to keep it from frying the pilot mean that you need to build a mech. Those big power armors are largest and most powerful that can be built to run off of stored power. And because they are operating on stored power, they would have to be carted to near the battlefield and then donned. You can't patrol an area in a jarlslayer. Having to change out every hour to hour an a half makes them useless for that purpose. Yes, it mentions the battle harness running for 20 hours, but that one has a power consumption curve way out of line with the rest.
No idea why you bring in building mechs into this. The rules are about repairing them. And if you use GM Fiat to gloss over things you frankly should not do a playtest. The goal is to ensure that the rules work and you don't achieve that by ignoring rules during testing.
I bring it up because the particular horse that you are flogging right now is that having cheaper and faster methods to repair mechs affects WBL. And I am pointing out the reasons why, in actual game play, it is a non-issue. The initial mech does not come out of WBL. A replacement mech does not come out of WBL. People who plan for it can repair their mechs at no long term costs, even if the GM decides to make them pay for repairs. And those horrendous costs to repair? The mostly fit well within a character's expendables budget, even if they didn't plan ahead.A Tier 1 mech, available at 2nd level unless the GM overrides the rules, or there are 2 or more operators, has about 10hp. So it costs 100 credits to fix from destroyed or nearly destroyed, around the price of a level 1 fusion seal or 2 Mk 1 serums of healing, which would heal an average of 9 hp to a pc, with no guarantee of more than 2hp. So a fixed repair cost that is about the same as expendables that average slightly less healing, and have no guarantee of hitting average. Now, if the party has a Mystic handy, they can fix that pc up with a few castings of spells for no WBL consequences. And if the party has a Technomancer who has chosen to set up for mech repair rather than any of the other options they have, they can fix the mech with a couple of spells for no WBL cost. Your argument basically boils down to 'I didn't think to pick up the cheap option, so no one should be able to'. Mine boils down to 'the expensive option is about in line with a non-optimized party's cost to patch up a PC'.
I happen to think that my argument is the more relevant for overall play balance. The objective shouldn't be everyone is on the same level within the mech rules, regardless of how well they plan, but rather is this out of line with the existing rules set for a similar level of optimization. Nobody can stay within the general rules system and optimize everything. You have to choose strengths and weaknesses, and every party or player is going to have to choose what they prioritize, and therefore be on uneven footing with another party, depending on circumstances. And we aren't just testing the mech rules against themselves, but against the entire game system.
Jemstone, sometimes, you have to find the answer in the mirror, rather than look to the devs to solve every little thing. This isn't an adversarial game that requires everything to be spelled out to settle disputes. The rules are more like the Pirate Code in PotC. Guidelines. The final arbiter is the GM unless you are in Society play, and even there, you will get table variation where the rules are not exact. And that explanation is flavor text, not a rule. Flavor text suggests that all phase frames can teleport around the battlefield, but when you look deeper, you see that in order to do that, they have to have a piece of equipment installed at an additional cost, that can only be installed on phase frames because the other frames lack the magical elements that let it work.
Jimbles, you don't know when they will burn out. You might have the engineering specs, but you don't know if you got the one that was put together when the guy was coming back to work hung over, or the contractor was in a rush (or greedy) and used inferior materials to save time/money, or if Fred took your mech out for a joyride and put an extra 10 minutes of maximum output on it. So the safe thing to do is to not run it past its standard operating level unless it's a matter of life or death. After all, if another combat comes up before it finishes recharging, you can kick in the higher levels then. When aliens, etc. push the Enterprise past its safe limits, Scotty's first priority is slowing her down as quickly as is safe (also don't want the nacelles tearing off because you slammed the brakes).
During normal operations, the shield regeneration is done at a safe, sustainable rate. In combat, systems override these limits, operating shield regenerators at their maximum capabilities, which, without regular repairs would cause them to burn out in less than a day, perhaps.
There is a reason why the Enterprise (NCC 1701 no bloody A, B, C or D) didn't cruise around at warp 8 all the time. For short periods they could reach that speed, but if they did it all the time, they would need an entire engineering staff of Scottys to keep from breaking down. You don't want the shield generators breaking down while you're out on a stroll, but when it comes to 'get me shields before that plasma cannon wipes us out' you ant those generators working as hard as they can. You can fix them afterward, if you are still alive.
I did not say 'stun', I said disable. Read. To meet the conditions of equivalency, the spell would need to render a PC unable to act effectively for 1-4 rounds. 2nd level Mystic spell Hold Person paralyzes a single target for 1 round per level (meaning a minimum of 3 rounds, barring saves, exceeding the average for Discharge at its lowest possible duration without saves). In addition there are a number of creature special attacks which have similar effects. Further, Discharge does not prevent the pilot from opening up the hatch and firing their personal weapon or casting spells.
Regarding your first paragraph, so Mystic Cure is bad design? You should only use the long term recovery rules, since they exist? There is a cost to having caster levels in a party, part of which is sitting around being bored a lot of the time if you built solely for casting, much like soldiers tend to get bored in diplomatic situations. The game is trade-offs, not wish fulfillment. And it shouldn't be designed around 'the worst possible solution to every problem is the only one you can use'. That solution is there for when the GM is being not kind and you didn't choose to get access to any other, better solutions. Not kind means that the GM doesn't decide to handwave the damage with 'well, your mech is going to be out of service for a while. Give me a perception check. Okay, that pile of boulders over there? Turns out it's a partially buried, but otherwise functional mech. It will take one man hour of digging and a DC 15 Engineering check to get it working.' Perfectly possible given that mechs are granted by GM fiat. If I want you to have a mech for the next encounter, you will have one.
And for the second paragraph? It just means that such a spell would have to be higher than 2nd level. There is a long history in d20 of higher level spells doing things faster or better than similar lower level spells.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
You realize there is a technomancer cantrip to turn general debris into junked electronics?
RJ tried to be 'artistic' and push his own agenda and meaning in one movie of a nine movie saga. And it's not an agenda that doesn't deserve pushing, it's just horribly out of tune with the Skywalker Saga. Not Star Wars, but the corner of the Star Wars universe that is the Skywalker Saga. It's been done with the story of a young woman trying to find her father.
That said, if you think that slow, daisy-chaining tactics, poor logistical planning, and a chase scene at a pace that makes glaciers look like pod-racers, as well as a leader who isn't willing to take the minimal steps to avoid gross misunderstandings, are marvelous Star Wars material, then I feel a little sorry for you. There are parts of TLJ that were worth keeping, and parts that actually foreshadowed some of the events of RoS, but overall, it felt like half a Star Wars movie, and half a ham-fisted attempt to wrest an entire saga to his will. RoS feels like Star Wars, all the way through. And yes, there were callbacks to a heck of a lot things from prior films, but that seemed appropriate for the finale of the entire saga.
Saw it yesterday, and after a night of restlessness trying to consider the implications of the events, I can definitely recommend this movie. While saying there is no CGI Leia is not entirely accurate, the only place it was used would have been CGI even if Carrie had been alive, and is mostly obvious because of lighting issues in the scene.
Signal of Screams is definitely not for everyone. If I hadn't been running it I would never have played it, and I don't think I would have had any regrets. Against the Aeon Throne was fun to run, and I believe play, and if the local group offers it again, I would play it. Attack of the Swarm is giving me some issues on the handling of the subject matter, but that may be in part because of the number of my players who have military experience. Some elements are leaving us a bit incredulous.
As of COM, there is the category of punch guns, which are technically ranged weapons that specifically state that they do not provoke when used on an adjacent target (the only legal targets for them in the description and tables). Given the existence of this exception, unless a class ability or feat removes the aoo trigger, any ranged attack at an adjacent target will provoke.
The principle problem is one that West End addressed decades ago - the matter of scale. Think about that WW2 strafing run by a fighter, and how a single person can react to it. The one Vehicle/Starship combat I've seen felt right being done using modified chase rules. The ship (a fighter size creature) was basically too big for the vehicle to do any real damage, but they were able to affect it's ability to hit them. Realistically, Han can fire his blaster at a Lambda class shuttle all he wants, and he'll probably hit every time, but the shuttle pilot will ignore him. Or fire back, with a lower chance of hitting, but if he does, Han's vicinity is going to be pretty unpleasant.
Since the hard cap at 18 for stats at start is a part of the intended rules for society play (including capping Steliferra at 14 strength to account for their ability to boost strength by 4), arrays would actually make compliance harder. And since your clearly stated intent is to circumvent that cap, your argument is a nonstarter.
I'm in Kingbrendarr's group A. At this point, our group is pretty much Starfinder only, with lots of other groups doing PF/PF2. We are taking our time going through the APs every other week, so running out of material is less of a problem for those of us that don't travel to cons, and frequently when we are at cons we are GMing a lot. Of the core 7, 5 of us GM at least occasionally. Our main issue is probably the geek sudoku to get our high levels going through everything when one of us needs to split off to run a second table, and to catch up after con season. The newer people are just starting to get out of the 1 to 4s with their primary characters, so things should get a little better in that regard soon.
The principle problem for the other two groups seems to be a matter of consistency. I went through Dead Suns book 1 with what I suspect is one of those two groups a year ago, and then that AP just disappeared.
-701 Raia of Jabask Damaya Lashunta Icon Envoy, Profession:Professor of Xenobiology. Has served as a field expert on Live Exploration Extreme.
The only thing that I will say is that an organization such as the Starfinders would be happy to have a Stephen Hawking type as a member. But it would be EXTREMELY irresponsible of them to employ him as a field agent without technological compensation for his motor function limitations. And unless you have actually experienced even a limited amount of mobility impairment, DO NOT think you know what it is like. Another member of my group and I walk with canes, and we have had to abandon sites due to access difficulties. I get frustrated that my knees make me include the presence of stairs in my route calculations, and determining the acceptability of the risk in using them. Something as simple as changing the chairs and tables can render a site unusable. And in a universe with cybernetic enhancements to movement and exoskeletons available, I sure as heck would choose to use them.
But if no one is willing to buy an AP starting at 7th (or the sales are more like a 4th book of an AP), it is strong evidence that you and your group are in the minority, and the economics for an AP starting at 13+ just won't pencil out. This is a business, not your privately commissioned writing staff, and you may not be in their primary (profitable) audience.
Another consideration is that 7-9 is where the current Society play maxes out, due to a relatively new system, and a need to provide low level material to have something to encourage new players. APs are being sanctioned MUCH more rapidly than has historically been the case for PFS (we have sanctioning documents for the next book as well as the one just coming out),and SFS players looking for new material are more likely to buy at 7th, where they can apply Chronicles immediately, than 13th, where they don’t have a character available.
Based on my SFS experiences, I highly doubt that next August PFS1 will just drop dead. Our SFS group has reached the point where 'already played that' is the biggest barrier to selecting an offering each week. We have people playing for no credit to make a legal table for the one or two people who haven't done some of the earlier scenarios. And I seriously doubt that PFS will be more prolific. So if you want to play PFS1 characters, there will be table space to do so.
The problem is, define the meaning of optimal. For the power gamer, this is 'what array gets me the best stats for hurting things/rendering skill checks trivial.' For someone trying to create a certain character type, it is 'what array gets me the best emulation of my concept.' The former is, of course going to consider an 18 in their primary stat mandatory. The latter may well feel that an extra 16 is worth the cost of not having an 18, especially if their concept is a hybrid of classes, rather than being a pure class. There is still room for customization, as soon as you reject the idea that you must be super-specialized.
The Grey Maiden armor IS world building,though. It just happens to be world building for Paizo's official campaign world.
I wouldn't say that is the general viewpoint. But there are really only two solutions to a bad GM, each applying to one of the two general classifications of bad GM. The ignorant/inexperienced GM is solved by giving them the tools to do better, whether through rules that make things easier for them, mentoring, or simply experience in the role. The willful category of GM has only one solution. Leave the table. Either they will have a change of heart when they lose players, or you have at least SEPed them.
With regards to the spoilered rant, that's going to depend on group and GM tendencies. As a player, I lean toward describing what I am doing to see if the GM will grant some kind of bonus, regardless of the skill being checked. As a GM, I tend to take into account anything the players tell me to determine DCs/bonuses to rolls. I am sorry if most of your experience has been with GMs who treat social skills differently from other skills, but that is not a universal thing.
One reason for why this might be a tendency is that for social skills, you can generally actually do what your character is doing at the table, whereas showing off dance moves isn't something that a crowded venue could accommodate at all. Combined with quotability of particularly memorable results, this might also result in a bit of confirmation bias.
N N 959 wrote:
Congratulations on misquoting and misinterpreting once again. I wasn't quoting your apology, but rather your original argument (in the sense of making a case for a position).
If you want to avoid the possibilities for exploits, the game design is very simple. The game will consist of a blank piece of paper. Pretty much anything more complex than that leaves room for rules exploits. And eventually, someone will find them. The BEST possible way to handle that, since everyone has blind spots, is to make sure that as many eyes as possible are put on it BEFORE it becomes official rules.
N N 959 wrote:
Misquoting 'possible' as 'probable' doesn't help you make an argument. No one, not even a very gifted game designer, is going to be able to run through every possible combination, so the best possible approach is to challenge others (who think differently than the designer) to find flaws and exploits in playtest.
Years ago, I was fairly heavily involved in a game where the designers thought they had things worked out, the limited test group came up with results matching the expected outcomes... and within a month of the official publication, tactics outside what the designers had anticipated required scrapping the entire system and reworking it. And these were designers, and playtesters, who had been working on that system for DECADES.
'In proper orbit' is not the same as geosynchronous. If the station being over a single point is your goal, then it WOULD be placed at geosynchronous orbit. Otherwise, it moves relative to the planet surface at a rate dictated by its orbital height. As long as you aren't putting it within the significant part of the planet's atmosphere (where Xenocrat's atmospheric drag would come into play), the station keeping would be handled by fairly infrequent bursts from the equivalent of maneuvering thrusters. To a pilot, calling those 'drives' would be about the same as calling a go-kart a sports car.
EXCEPT when the GM's hands are tied.
My opposition to goblins in the core rulebook is based entirety on my experiences and observations from running Society games, the one place where the only real way a GM can say no is by walking away from the table, and ruining several non-disruptive players' evenings. Even segregation of the goblins in the book will not avoid the sort of issues that arose with the legacy races in Starfinder Society. And there is at least one murder hobo player that has shown up a few times that I would not run a table for if they brought a goblin PC.
I have no problems with goblin PCs in general, and certainly would allow HMM to play pretty much any goblin concept she has mentioned. But I'm worried that there are a few reasons why people want to play goblins, one of which will be completely unsuitable for Society play. I would be all for the first supplement being GoG Revised, divided into parts that would support playing homicidal baby-eating Pyromaniacs for home games, and another for supporting Heroic goblins, with the first part being explicitly banned for Society play. But putting them in core could create too many issues for VOs/VCs/Tonya.
*Staggers out of thread. Straightens clothes, does best to brush off goblin-induced ashes, and assorted pugwampi-induced blemishes.*
"Well, that was an interesting experience."
Just spent the last week reading this thread from beginning to present. I also went through the Shattered Star pbp you started, and I'm really liking the action there. These are the type of people I feel like I would really enjoy playing with, or eventually GMing for. So if you don't mind, I'll be sticking around, and occasionally interacting here.
This announcement nearly caused me to drop out of a session tonight. There is no good faction for the character I'm playing to go to. She is an historian and archaeologist who finds the Scarab Sages a perfect fit. There really does need to be a faction for students of history, even if the Scarab Sages themselves are no longer part of the Society.
The BIG difference from video games is that a tabletop rpg is designed to satisfy 4-7 people at the same time, rather than stroke the ego of a single individual. The real life social interactions are the benefit for agreeing to abide by restrictions that make it possible for everyone to be on roughly the same level. So if you don't feel that is something you can agree to, go back to your heavily modded Skyrim game that lets you do everything that you want. Don't insist that the majority of payers (as indicated by the posts in all of the threads you spew out) change to satisfy you. Because that isn't democracy, that's tyranny of the minority.
I find Maldris' recent actions to be dubious at best, and potentially treasonous. As a result, I am unwilling to support a protege who has not, as yet, distanced herself from the actions through both word and deed. She may sympathize with the plight of slaves, but unlike Credence, she cannot truly empathize with them.
I have had nothing but good reports from my associates regarding Tamrin Credence's ability to work for the good of the Society, the liberation of slaves, and the undermining of despots. So my choice is clear.
Having recently been involved in a pair of Bluffs with distinctly different outcomes, this seems far more relevant to me than Mr Hutchins seems to want to admit. A fellow Pathfinder and I were attempting to gain ingress to a certain warehouse through a locked door. I had my tools laid out, and was working on the lock when a passerby questioned what was going on. My compatriot tried to bluff by claiming to be someone very important. I believe his exact words were, "I own this town." At that point, I started packing up my tools and stepping away from the core breach that appeared likely to occur. As his claims became even more ludicrous, I explained that I was a duly certified professional locksmith who had been retained to work on what he had assured me was a building he owned. As I carry business cards stating the same thing, and am in fact a professional locksmith, this gave me considerable credibility, while his was shattered by his claims.
Spacecaptain Pillbug Lebowski wrote:
Carthoris was definitely hatched from an egg (see the end of the book A Princess of Mars). There's no mention of Tara of Helium's birth in the source material but it was almost certainly the same