paizo.com Recent Posts by Blue_frogpaizo.com Recent Posts by Blue_frog2024-03-26T22:46:38Z2024-03-26T22:46:38ZForums: Rules Discussion: Spell turning headacheBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43w4g?Spell-turning-headache#12023-10-18T07:48:01Z2023-10-18T07:39:09Z<p>Hello,</p>
<p>Rules got pretty complicated during last week session.
<br />
We were fighting 3 Shining Childs and I, as a wizard, cast Slow (6th level) on them.</p>
<p>DM said they all had spell turning on, so here are the first questions
<br />
1) Who uses the spell turning ? Is it any one of them at random ? Do they all have to use it ?
<br />
2) If one Shining Child sends the spell back to me, are the other Childs still affected or is the whole spell sent back ?
<br />
3) Since there are multiple targets with this spell, is it only targeting me back, or also my companions ?</p>
<p>The ruling that night was 1) only one uses it, 2) other monsters are thus unaffected and 3) I'm the only one slowed.</p>
<p>But here's where it gets interesting. I ALSO HAD A SPELL TURNING ACTIVE.</p>
<p>Per spell turning description: "If spell turning reflects a spell back at a caster who is also under the effect of spell turning, their spell turning can attempt to reflect their own spell back at you again; if they do so, their counteract attempt automatically succeeds."</p>
<p>So I just sent my slow back to them AGAIN. And it triggered so many new questions:
<br />
1) The Shining Child who used spell turning got affected, that's a given. But what happens to the other targets ? Are they still affected ?
<br />
2) Can ANOTHER Shining Child use his own Spell Turning ? And what happens if he can ?</p>
<p>Thanks for any clarification, it really was a mess ^^</p>Hello,
Rules got pretty complicated during last week session.
We were fighting 3 Shining Childs and I, as a wizard, cast Slow (6th level) on them.
DM said they all had spell turning on, so here are the first questions
1) Who uses the spell turning ? Is it any one of them at random ? Do they all have to use it ?
2) If one Shining Child sends the spell back to me, are the other Childs still affected or is the whole spell sent back ?
3) Since there are multiple targets with this spell, is it...Blue_frog2023-10-18T07:39:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: Tips for a mutagenist and secondary healerBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udr?Tips-for-a-mutagenist-and-secondary-healer#132023-07-11T10:13:17Z2023-07-11T10:13:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shroudb wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
you can't delay the choker, you need to use it when you roll initiative.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Ah, good catch, didn't see it. In that case, moving forward is not a good idea ^^
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shroudb wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
for getting around the hands issue on a weapon based mutagenist, i personally am a big fan of grabbing Bastion archetype and then Nimble shield. This gives both an excellent reaction for when you don't have the actions to raise shield (as an example, every round you want to move), but also you can now hold and even drink potions with your shield hand..</blockquote><p>Nimble shield looks awesome indeed, I'll think about adding it to the mix.shroudb wrote:you can't delay the choker, you need to use it when you roll initiative.
Ah, good catch, didn't see it. In that case, moving forward is not a good idea ^^ shroudb wrote:for getting around the hands issue on a weapon based mutagenist, i personally am a big fan of grabbing Bastion archetype and then Nimble shield. This gives both an excellent reaction for when you don't have the actions to raise shield (as an example, every round you want to move), but also you can now hold and...Blue_frog2023-07-11T10:13:17ZRe: Forums: Advice: Tips for a mutagenist and secondary healerBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udr?Tips-for-a-mutagenist-and-secondary-healer#112023-07-11T09:51:55Z2023-07-11T09:49:09Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shroudb wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
the idea behind the weapon is that you can switch mutagens more easily as needed, since you also have Energy as an option when you dont want to sacrifice your AC, as a mutagenist you are more free than others to have a mix of mutagens since you can make 3 of any kind with a reagent as opposed to 2 of the same kind.</p>
<p>also, you dont need to go for titanic, you can go for another Fury coctail that gives only -1ac and also gives some resistances to kinda help with defences.</blockquote><p>Fair enough !
</p>
Like I said, one BIG advantage of bestial over all other mutagenists is wearing a shield and using shield block. Since we don't have much use for a reaction and probably aren't charismatic enough to intimidate/bon mot/whatever, raising a shield as a third action is both viable and negates the mutagen penalty while adding some DR.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shroudb wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
for damage part, you'd still have your runes and such, and siphon, so you will be looking at something like 5d6+4 which while not great, it's not terrible.</blockquote><p>How do you get 5d6+4 ? Or do you mean at lvl 20 ?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">shroudb wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
the problem with relying on too many consumables being active is the amount of actions needed to get all those active. </blockquote><p>I agree, but with the collar of the spider and an independant familiar, it should go pretty fast if, like Superbidi said, you start the fight with an elixir in your hand.
<p>Even if you take ALL elixirs in one fight, that would mean:</p>
<p>Round 1
<br />
- Drink Mistform
<br />
- Get familiar to give you numbing tonic and drink it
<br />
- Move and help your friends tank</p>
<p>Round 2
<br />
- Free action bestial mutagen through collar
<br />
- Attack twice or move and attack if needed
<br />
- Raise shield
<br />
(familiar takes soothing elixir or elixir of life if needed)</p>
<p>It's no more intensive than a magus having to enter cascade and even if it's a bit slower than a ranger with favored enemy or a thaumaturge, you only do it once and then you're set for the fight instead of having to lose an action on every opponent.</p>shroudb wrote:the idea behind the weapon is that you can switch mutagens more easily as needed, since you also have Energy as an option when you dont want to sacrifice your AC, as a mutagenist you are more free than others to have a mix of mutagens since you can make 3 of any kind with a reagent as opposed to 2 of the same kind.also, you dont need to go for titanic, you can go for another Fury coctail that gives only -1ac and also gives some resistances to kinda help with defences.
Fair...Blue_frog2023-07-11T09:49:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: Tips for a mutagenist and secondary healerBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udr?Tips-for-a-mutagenist-and-secondary-healer#102023-07-11T09:49:33Z2023-07-11T09:30:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
It gives it to you, not feed you (Familiars can't use items). So every 2 turns you have a free Elixir at hand. </blockquote><p>Ooh, that's great ! I was looking at Valet but since it doesn't work with independant, this looks much better.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I just lose a hand on the grip when I want to move to a more support setup. As of now, I've been quite happy with the damage so I hadn't use this option. But it's nice to have it.</blockquote><p>How did you get the guisarme though ? Through unconventional weaponry ? But then you're stuck with trained until lvl 13 ? Or is there another way to get a weapon not on your base list and keep up with your proficiency ?
<p>So basically you start a fight with only one hand on your guisarme, you quaff all your potions, then you take an action to go two-handed and you hack away ? And if you need to heal or take another elixir, you lose another action to take a hand away, do your thing, then waste yet another action to put it back and be able to resume attacking ?</p>
<p>I'm not criticizing but trying to understand, because it looks pretty action-intensive to me. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Definitely true, but you need to be level 11 for that. Before that, you are stuck with a laughable d6 at level 1-2 and d8 at level 3-7. That's just painful as hell for a character who will also have a lack of survivability.</blockquote><p>Actually at lvl 8 you're already 1d10 deadly d10, but I see your point. It's true that it's subpar before that ^^
<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote>Also, weapons can be used with more things: Weapon Siphon (awesome at low level), Energy Mutagen (before you get Fury Cocktail), Poison. All these things significantly increase your damage output. So there's really no reason to move to Bestial before 2 digit levels and feats like Flurry of Blows. That's why I don't like the Bestial Mutagenist much, it's a high level build (and I don't focus an entire build on levels 11+ as I play more often before level 10). </blockquote><p>Good point !SuperBidi wrote:It gives it to you, not feed you (Familiars can't use items). So every 2 turns you have a free Elixir at hand.
Ooh, that's great ! I was looking at Valet but since it doesn't work with independant, this looks much better. SuperBidi wrote:I just lose a hand on the grip when I want to move to a more support setup. As of now, I've been quite happy with the damage so I hadn't use this option. But it's nice to have it.
How did you get the guisarme though ? Through unconventional...Blue_frog2023-07-11T09:30:03ZRe: Forums: Advice: Tips for a mutagenist and secondary healerBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udr?Tips-for-a-mutagenist-and-secondary-healer#72023-07-10T19:47:58Z2023-07-10T19:47:58Z<p>Monk archetype (or martial artist) is an interesting thought, I'll look into it, thanks !</p>
<p>As for being durable, the Titanic Fury mutagen gives me -2 AC as well so it's kind of a wash - except that I would have reach which is nice, but then I'd get piddly damage. With no weapon specialization and no dps increase like sneak attack/rage/fighter accuracy, I'd deal something like 2d6+4 damage at lvl 10 which doesn't quite fit the "reasonable damage" part of the bill ^^</p>
<p>Going the monk route with Dragon Style would net me 2d10+4 damage with no drawback, so there's that. I would have 1 less accuracy and a bit less damage than with bestial mutagen, but with a much higer AC (lower will save, though).</p>
<p>I thought my durability with Bestial Mutagen would come from:
<br />
- Numbing tonic replenishable temp hp
<br />
- Soothing tonic fast healing
<br />
- Mistform elixir for the free concealment
<br />
- Shield block (that weapon mutagenists cannot use if they want a free hand)
<br />
- Battle Medicine if things go south
<br />
- Revivifying mutagen + juggernaut elixir if I really need to tank it out.</p>
<p>Isn't it enough already ? I don't plan on being a tank (we have a redeemer after all), just survive a couple hits if I'm being targeted.</p>Monk archetype (or martial artist) is an interesting thought, I'll look into it, thanks !
As for being durable, the Titanic Fury mutagen gives me -2 AC as well so it's kind of a wash - except that I would have reach which is nice, but then I'd get piddly damage. With no weapon specialization and no dps increase like sneak attack/rage/fighter accuracy, I'd deal something like 2d6+4 damage at lvl 10 which doesn't quite fit the "reasonable damage" part of the bill ^^
Going the monk route with...Blue_frog2023-07-10T19:47:58ZRe: Forums: Rules Discussion: Devise Stratagem and Quicksilver mutagenBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udo?Devise-Stratagem-and-Quicksilver-mutagen#42023-07-10T18:15:17Z2023-07-10T18:15:17Z<p>Thanks for the clarification.</p>Thanks for the clarification.Blue_frog2023-07-10T18:15:17ZRe: Forums: Advice: Tips for a mutagenist and secondary healerBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udr?Tips-for-a-mutagenist-and-secondary-healer#42023-07-10T18:40:52Z2023-07-10T18:08:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I second Shroudb on a one-handed reach weapon (Hobgoblin Breaching Pike is certainly the best choice) and how weak are Healing Bombs. But I disagree on the reagent cost of Elixirs of Life: Once at level 5 you should be able to get a few of them. Before that, you can use healing potions (adventures love to give you some of them at low level, so it's "freeish").</p>
<p>One solution to cover all your needs is to take a Familiar (anyway, there's no other useful feat at level 1) with Manual Dexterity and Independent to hand you Elixirs of Life every other rounds. You then just grab a Titanic Fury Mutagen. You won't tank much but you'll have 15ft of reach so you could stay behind the frontline, you'll also be able to heal at 10ft. And you'll be able to fulfill the damage dealing part and the healing part quite honorably.
<br />
I have a very similar build and it works wonder at low levels (I'm more damage oriented as I use a Guisarme, but the overall build is similar). If you want more details, just ask. </blockquote><p>Thanks to both of you, that's pretty interesting.
<p>I don't want to minmax too much and going into ancestral weapons (like the gnomish flickmace or the breaching pike) is doable but I'd rather do without if possible. Also, taking bestial mutagen eventually gives me a d12 deadly d10 weapon - no reach, true, but an insane damage difference in comparison with the d6 of the breaching pike.</p>
<p>So your guisarme build looks great - but then how do you deal with the lack of free hand, both for medicine tools and elixirs ?</p>
<p>Also, how does Manual Dexterity + Independant actually work ? Every odd turn he takes a potion in your bandolier and every even turn he feeds it to you ?</p>SuperBidi wrote:I second Shroudb on a one-handed reach weapon (Hobgoblin Breaching Pike is certainly the best choice) and how weak are Healing Bombs. But I disagree on the reagent cost of Elixirs of Life: Once at level 5 you should be able to get a few of them. Before that, you can use healing potions (adventures love to give you some of them at low level, so it's "freeish").
One solution to cover all your needs is to take a Familiar (anyway, there's no other useful feat at level 1) with...Blue_frog2023-07-10T18:08:16ZForums: Advice: Tips for a mutagenist and secondary healerBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udr?Tips-for-a-mutagenist-and-secondary-healer#12023-07-10T13:43:49Z2023-07-10T13:41:34Z<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I'd like to play a mutagenist in an upcoming campaign, where the healing output is rather low (5-man party and the only healing source would be the redeemer).</p>
<p>So I'd like to carry a bit of this burden, even if I know other classes (and even other subclasses) would be more suited to it. I really want to give the mutagenist a try this time ^^</p>
<p>I've read most guides floating around, but I'm still a bit confused. Could you help me build a mutagenist, taking into account that:
<br />
- We start at level 1 so the build has to be viable from the start (or at least from lvl 3 onward)
<br />
- I really want to give full-blown mutagenist a try, not another class with alchemist dedication nor a chirurgeon or bomber
<br />
- I should be able to fill-in as another secondary healer, deal reasonable damage and survive reasonably well.</p>
<p>Here are some ideas I had but they're pretty jumbled:
<br />
- I need a free hand for battle medicine, so Bestial Mutagen would be best for battle
<br />
- Another option would be to take martial artists dedication and use Drakeheart mutagen. I'd be more tanky but would deal less damage.
<br />
- Healing bomb at level 4 could help in a pinch but if I understand correctly it will only matter at level 7 when I can get a moderate elixir of life with +2 additive.
<br />
- Medic dedication could help with my action economy (doctor's visitation) but then I have no other dedication
<br />
- Since I'm MAD, can I skip wisdom and count on assurance to carry me through legendary medicine ?
<br />
- Is the valet familiar mandatory for such a build ?</p>Hello,
I'd like to play a mutagenist in an upcoming campaign, where the healing output is rather low (5-man party and the only healing source would be the redeemer).
So I'd like to carry a bit of this burden, even if I know other classes (and even other subclasses) would be more suited to it. I really want to give the mutagenist a try this time ^^
I've read most guides floating around, but I'm still a bit confused. Could you help me build a mutagenist, taking into account that:
- We start...Blue_frog2023-07-10T13:41:34ZForums: Rules Discussion: Devise Stratagem and Quicksilver mutagenBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43udo?Devise-Stratagem-and-Quicksilver-mutagen#12023-07-10T10:32:15Z2023-07-10T10:32:15Z<p>Quicksilver mutagen says "You gain an item bonus to Acrobatics checks, Stealth checks, Thievery checks, Reflex saves, AND DEXTERITY BASED ATTACK ROLLS" (emphasis mine).</p>
<p>So an investigator using a shortbow or any dex weapon will benefit from it. But what happens if he uses his Devise Stratagem ? "When you make this substitution, you can also add your Intelligence modifier to your attack roll instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifier".</p>
<p>Is it still a dex-based attack ? Do you still benefit from the mutagen ?</p>Quicksilver mutagen says "You gain an item bonus to Acrobatics checks, Stealth checks, Thievery checks, Reflex saves, AND DEXTERITY BASED ATTACK ROLLS" (emphasis mine).
So an investigator using a shortbow or any dex weapon will benefit from it. But what happens if he uses his Devise Stratagem ? "When you make this substitution, you can also add your Intelligence modifier to your attack roll instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifier".
Is it still a dex-based attack ? Do you still...Blue_frog2023-07-10T10:32:15ZRe: Forums: Advice: Illusory ObjectBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43twy?Illusory-Object#112023-06-08T11:13:07Z2023-06-08T11:13:07Z<p>So what happens when the wizard casts an illusion of a wall of stone next to himself ? He'll have to disbelieve it, but since it's next to him he can (and some GM will give him a bonus to this, or as I saw in this thread even allow him to disbelieve freely). And now what ? Untargetable for anyone except a monster who spends his turn going next to the wall of stone (one action wasted) and disbelieving it (another action wasted) ? And ranged monsters are SoL ?</p>So what happens when the wizard casts an illusion of a wall of stone next to himself ? He'll have to disbelieve it, but since it's next to him he can (and some GM will give him a bonus to this, or as I saw in this thread even allow him to disbelieve freely). And now what ? Untargetable for anyone except a monster who spends his turn going next to the wall of stone (one action wasted) and disbelieving it (another action wasted) ? And ranged monsters are SoL ?Blue_frog2023-06-08T11:13:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Is the thaumaturge "too strong" ?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43txi?Is-the-thaumaturge-too-strong#52023-10-11T20:02:32Z2023-06-08T10:58:29Z<p>Ooooh, now I see where we got it wrong. We thought diverse lore made it so esoteric lore could replace occultist/arcana/nature/religion skills, when it's just for the purpose of recalling knowledge.</p>
<p>Well, that's a really big difference and it'll make me less likely to step on the wizard's toes.</p>Ooooh, now I see where we got it wrong. We thought diverse lore made it so esoteric lore could replace occultist/arcana/nature/religion skills, when it's just for the purpose of recalling knowledge.
Well, that's a really big difference and it'll make me less likely to step on the wizard's toes.Blue_frog2023-06-08T10:58:29ZForums: Advice: Is the thaumaturge "too strong" ?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43txi?Is-the-thaumaturge-too-strong#12023-06-08T07:19:43Z2023-06-08T07:19:43Z<p>I recently joined a campaign on roll20 and decided to take a thaumaturge. The GM allowed it, although none of us was very familiar with the class. All other players took core or APG classes like a rogue, a ranger, a wizard and a cleric.</p>
<p>We're currently lvl 8, I didn't take any specific shenanigans (I'm human, no multiclass, no busted feat interaction) but the GM feels that this class is "too powerful" and asks me if I can change it so as not to create an imbalance with other players.</p>
<p>The question here is not whether that's good GMing and whether I should comply or leave the campaign altogether, but whether he's right in his assessment of the class, or if we didn't take things into account.</p>
<p>I took the amulet implement at lvl 1, the regalia at lvl 5 and amulet adept at lvl 7. My feats are Diverse Lore, Scroll Thaumaturgy, Talisman Esoterica, Scroll Esoterica and Elaborate talisman esoterica. Pretty standard stuff, I didn't even go the familiar route and it could be more optimized.</p>
<p>1) Attacking</p>
<p>At level 8, if I succeed at my EV check (which is pretty easy since a standard DC is 24 and I have +18 on the roll), I can now either exploit the weakness of any monster (which was insane in some encounters) or in the worst case create my own weakness 6.</p>
<p>This means my +1 striking longsword hits for 2d8+4(str)+4(IE)+6(weakness)+2(weapon spe), so 2d8+16 average 25.</p>
<p>That's more than the rogue on flat-footed target (he does 4d6+6 so average 20) and the precision ranger on his hunted target (he does 2d6+6+1d8 average 17 and usually fires twice but second shot has lower chance to hit).</p>
<p>2) Being attacked</p>
<p>All other characters are made of paper, so I'm the designated tank. With the amulet, I can soak 10 damage from first hit, then get a lingering resist 5 from same damage type. Since most monsters come in pack, that often is a flat DR5.</p>
<p>When I'm not the one attacked, I can act as a Champion with my reaction, and getting a lingering resist is arguably as good as getting an extra hit in when you're a paladin.</p>
<p>I'm not level 9 yet but the amulet will also let me raise shield if needed (only against my target, but with the added bonus of bolstering saves). Talking about saves, I'm great here as well with master will save and expert in the two others.</p>
<p>3) Out of combat</p>
<p>This is where the GM gets pissed. It's ok for my thaumaturge to be good at fighting, lots of characters are. But he's also the uncontested king of OOC actions, miles ahead of everyone else.</p>
<p>- He's the party face and is better at it than any other class in the game, thanks to the regalia bonus.
<br />
- He's also the party egghead, and is better at it than any other class in the game, thanks to Diverse Lore. This means I'm master at every recall knowledge check (using CHA) and master - 2 (so expert) at EVERY DAMN KNOWLEDGE IN THE GAME. Sure, the wizard has 2 more in Arcana than me, but I'm the best at every other skill. I mean, which other class can both be the face and the intellectual ?
<br />
- He can use ANY scroll with his thaumaturgy DC, a thing every caster would kill for. He also gets a 1st level and 2nd level scroll from ANY tradition that he can change EVERYDAY. His talismans are also crazy powerful considering they're free (you can get feather fall, fortitude bonuses, free grapple and so many others).</p>
<p>Anyway, my DM feels no class should be a great DPS AND a great tank AND the best party face AND the best knowledge character AND get free scrolls and talismans. </p>
<p>So, what can I answer him ? Is he right ? I do feel powerful, and I don't want to overshadow everybody.</p>I recently joined a campaign on roll20 and decided to take a thaumaturge. The GM allowed it, although none of us was very familiar with the class. All other players took core or APG classes like a rogue, a ranger, a wizard and a cleric.
We're currently lvl 8, I didn't take any specific shenanigans (I'm human, no multiclass, no busted feat interaction) but the GM feels that this class is "too powerful" and asks me if I can change it so as not to create an imbalance with other players.
The...Blue_frog2023-06-08T07:19:43ZRe: Forums: Advice: Help me make a dps monkBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43piv?Help-me-make-a-dps-monk#172022-11-09T08:10:21Z2022-11-09T08:10:21Z<p>Lots of good advice on this thread, thanks ^^</p>
<p>Barbarian looks good actually, I didn't even think about it. As for moving away, that might not be an option since I'll be the only melee with the redeemer. Better to take advantage of the champion's reaction than move away and let a squishie get squished ^^</p>
<p>As for the investigator, of course she's ranged - but she's also more into "I shoot at the chandelier to make it fall on the bad guy" than actual dps. Which is fine and makes fights pretty dynamic, but usually deal really low damage.</p>Lots of good advice on this thread, thanks ^^
Barbarian looks good actually, I didn't even think about it. As for moving away, that might not be an option since I'll be the only melee with the redeemer. Better to take advantage of the champion's reaction than move away and let a squishie get squished ^^
As for the investigator, of course she's ranged - but she's also more into "I shoot at the chandelier to make it fall on the bad guy" than actual dps. Which is fine and makes fights pretty...Blue_frog2022-11-09T08:10:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: Help me make a dps monkBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43piv?Help-me-make-a-dps-monk#52022-11-08T17:01:01Z2022-11-08T17:01:01Z<p>My idea was to rely on stumbling stance as well, but take rogue as an archetype to get +1d4 (eventually 1d6) sneak attack.</p>
<p>This means that if I can flank my opponent or if he hits me and gets flat-footed, at level 6 with striking handwraps I would attack twice for 2d8+1d6+4, or 2d8+2d6+4 with a focus point.</p>
<p>As for electric arc, I could get it through adaptative cantrip.</p>
<p>It's not fighter level, but it looks pretty good actually ^^</p>My idea was to rely on stumbling stance as well, but take rogue as an archetype to get +1d4 (eventually 1d6) sneak attack.
This means that if I can flank my opponent or if he hits me and gets flat-footed, at level 6 with striking handwraps I would attack twice for 2d8+1d6+4, or 2d8+2d6+4 with a focus point.
As for electric arc, I could get it through adaptative cantrip.
It's not fighter level, but it looks pretty good actually ^^Blue_frog2022-11-08T17:01:01ZForums: Advice: Help me make a dps monkBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43piv?Help-me-make-a-dps-monk#12022-11-08T11:11:23Z2022-11-08T11:10:48Z<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I'd really like to play a monk on an upcoming AP, but I realized our party is very severely lacking in the damage department.</p>
<p>I know monk strength comes from things like fast movement and stunning fist, but I'll have to put the hurt on enemies if we want to win the upcoming fights.</p>
<p>We have:
<br />
- A sword and board redeemer
<br />
- A primal witch
<br />
- A bard
<br />
- An investigator</p>
<p>..and me.</p>
<p>The investigator is a new player and she's not minmaxing at all - which is totally fine, but makes me carry the brunt of the damage in a fight. The witch will take some damaging spells, the bard will be mostly debuffing, and the redeemer will do redeemer stuff.</p>
<p>So, how would YOU create this monk so he can really put the hurt on someone ? I can even sacrifice a little bit of survivability since I'll have a redeemer to babysit me, the witch plans to invest in life lesson and the bard will take soothe as a signature spell.</p>
<p>1) We don't have free archetypes
<br />
2) We play on foundry so most material implemented is ok</p>
<p>It's my first time playing monk and I'm really excited about it, but I'd love to have some advice on it.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot !</p>Hello,
I'd really like to play a monk on an upcoming AP, but I realized our party is very severely lacking in the damage department.
I know monk strength comes from things like fast movement and stunning fist, but I'll have to put the hurt on enemies if we want to win the upcoming fights.
We have:
- A sword and board redeemer
- A primal witch
- A bard
- An investigator
..and me.
The investigator is a new player and she's not minmaxing at all - which is totally fine, but makes me carry...Blue_frog2022-11-08T11:10:48ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=5?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#2232022-10-06T09:13:24Z2022-10-06T09:13:24Z<p>As an aside, I'm wondering why nobody mentions the psychic version of Produce Flame.</p>
<p>It's less effective than imaginary weapon but it's only one feat instead of two, and it deals 1d12+1 splash fire damage per cantrip level when amped, which is a tad more than 2d6 on your primary target and can actually deal some satisfying damage on adjacent opponents.</p>
<p>In my book, that's better than Telekinetic Projectile, which starts slow and gets +2d6 per level later. Pushing the target 5 feet away can be nice, but I'm not sure it's really worth it.</p>
<p>Did I miss something ?</p>As an aside, I'm wondering why nobody mentions the psychic version of Produce Flame.
It's less effective than imaginary weapon but it's only one feat instead of two, and it deals 1d12+1 splash fire damage per cantrip level when amped, which is a tad more than 2d6 on your primary target and can actually deal some satisfying damage on adjacent opponents.
In my book, that's better than Telekinetic Projectile, which starts slow and gets +2d6 per level later. Pushing the target 5 feet away can...Blue_frog2022-10-06T09:13:24ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=5?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#2132022-10-04T13:07:14Z2022-10-04T13:07:14Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HumbleGamer wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Aehm, the hasted assault doesn't give a free stride.</p>
<p>It just gives an extra strike.
<br />
It's the reason it's not that good on a magus. </blockquote><p>Uh.
</p>
That sucks.</p>
<p>You have a point, that actually sucks even worse than conflux spells ^^</p>HumbleGamer wrote:Aehm, the hasted assault doesn't give a free stride.
It just gives an extra strike.
It's the reason it's not that good on a magus.
Uh.
That sucks.You have a point, that actually sucks even worse than conflux spells ^^Blue_frog2022-10-04T13:07:14ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=5?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#2112022-10-04T13:02:49Z2022-10-04T13:02:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HumbleGamer wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Yeah, the point is more like "They wouldn't be bad at all, if there were not damaging focus spell usable to perform spellstrike"</p>
<p>As for lvl 8 focus spell you are talking about hasted assault ( which is a lvl 7 focus spell available by lvl 14 )?</p>
<p>if so, lvl 14 is far away ( ending of book 4 of any AP ).
<br />
it may seem good though ( especially with an inexorable iron who wants to smack enemies in melee ).</blockquote><p>Yeah, my bad, I thought it was a lvl 4 focus spell !
</p>
And I agree that haste is not as good as we think on a magus, my point was saying the conflux spell are even worse ^^</p>
<p>And even in your example, hasted assault is better.</p>
<p>R1: Hasted assault + buff or + shield + cascade
<br />
R2: Free Stride + Truestrike + Spellstrike
<br />
R3: Free Stride + recharge + Spellstrike (with hero point)
<br />
R4: Free strike/stride + recharge + Electric Arc
<br />
R5: Free stride + Truestrike + spellstrike</p>
<p>So same number of big spellstrikes, more mobility, more flexibility on the follow-up if it's a longer fight, one less focus point, one more electric arc (or any spell actually).</p>
<p>But yeah, haste is not that great - it's just that conflux spell are even worse.</p>HumbleGamer wrote:Yeah, the point is more like "They wouldn't be bad at all, if there were not damaging focus spell usable to perform spellstrike"
As for lvl 8 focus spell you are talking about hasted assault ( which is a lvl 7 focus spell available by lvl 14 )?
if so, lvl 14 is far away ( ending of book 4 of any AP ).
it may seem good though ( especially with an inexorable iron who wants to smack enemies in melee ).
Yeah, my bad, I thought it was a lvl 4 focus spell !
And I agree that...Blue_frog2022-10-04T13:02:49ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=5?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#2092022-10-04T12:36:11Z2022-10-04T12:36:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HumbleGamer wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
It's the reason why.</p>
<p>I mean, you said "The biggest gripe I have with conflux spells is that they all include an attack, which cripples your MAP", and my answer was towards the MAP part.</p>
<p>I consider the conflux spells not bad because they involve an attack, as they may allow to stride + strike + strike + recharge ( or anything else ). </p>
<p>They do their job right.</p>
<p>I find them suboptimal compared to damaging focus spells, and we agree on this. </blockquote><p>Aaah.
</p>
Well, stride + strike + strike + recharge is merely giving you a second strike at -5 at the cost of a focus point. That's... awful, even not considering that you can use a damaging focus spell.</p>
<p>Even without taking a dedication, you can get at 8th level a focus spell that gives you one more action FOR A WHOLE MINUTE. It's not even that great, but it still blows those conflux spells out of the water.</p>HumbleGamer wrote:It's the reason why.I mean, you said "The biggest gripe I have with conflux spells is that they all include an attack, which cripples your MAP", and my answer was towards the MAP part.
I consider the conflux spells not bad because they involve an attack, as they may allow to stride + strike + strike + recharge ( or anything else ).
They do their job right.
I find them suboptimal compared to damaging focus spells, and we agree on this.
Aaah.
Well, stride + strike +...Blue_frog2022-10-04T12:36:11ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=5?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#2072022-10-04T12:25:51Z2022-10-04T12:25:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">HumbleGamer wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I find this not true.
<br />
</blockquote><p>And yet you just say exactly what I said: a focus point is way more useful when you use it on a focus damaging spell than a conflux spell.
<p>I fail to see where our opinions differ ^^</p>HumbleGamer wrote:I find this not true.
And yet you just say exactly what I said: a focus point is way more useful when you use it on a focus damaging spell than a conflux spell. I fail to see where our opinions differ ^^Blue_frog2022-10-04T12:25:51ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=5?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#2052022-10-04T12:04:25Z2022-10-04T12:04:25Z<p>The biggest gripe I have with conflux spells is that they all include an attack, which cripples your MAP.</p>
<p>So:
<br />
- On rounds you spellstrike, you shouldn't use it.
<br />
- On rounds you don't spellstrike, you don't suffer as much from action economy, and you can afford to waste an action to recharge instead of wasting an action AND a focus point - which are way more useful unloading damage.</p>
<p>Also, most of your big spellstrikes should be paired with True Strike since that helps tremendously your dps (more hits, more crits).</p>
<p>As a twisted tree magus (which, like I said, is for me the best hybrid study ^^), most fights will look like this:</p>
<p>• Round 1: Buff (improved invisibility, stoneskin...) + Cascade.</p>
<p>You can also do Electric Arc + cascade, Electric Arc + move or one of my favorite, Shield + cascade + move.</p>
<p>Remember that thou art fragile, and moving to spellstrike early is pretty risky. Your HP and AC are nothing to write home about. Also, unless you're facing a full-ranged party, it's usually better to let THEM waste actions instead of the opposite.</p>
<p>• DPS round: True Strike + Spellstrike
<br />
• Recharge round: either
<br />
- Electric Arc + recharge
<br />
- Move + recharge + strike
<br />
- Strike + recharge + shield
<br />
- Move + strike + recharge
<br />
- Any spell + recharge</p>
<p>So there's little place for conflux spell anywhere.</p>The biggest gripe I have with conflux spells is that they all include an attack, which cripples your MAP.
So:
- On rounds you spellstrike, you shouldn't use it.
- On rounds you don't spellstrike, you don't suffer as much from action economy, and you can afford to waste an action to recharge instead of wasting an action AND a focus point - which are way more useful unloading damage.
Also, most of your big spellstrikes should be paired with True Strike since that helps tremendously your dps...Blue_frog2022-10-04T12:04:25ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=4?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1942022-10-03T21:28:46Z2022-10-03T21:28:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lollerabe wrote:</div><blockquote><p> That's my point. If you build your laughing shadow as a quasi dex char with a 1h and a free hand, it's gonna suck. I tried it and it's just not good.
</p>
If you go for a 2h and heavy armor, you are a Magus with the best conflux spell there is imo.</p>
<p>But as I mentioned a few pages back, it feels super unintuitive to ignore everything about the subclass' cascade features. That doesn't mean it isn't good tho, just not how you would imagine it to be good. And most certainly not how it was intended to be played either </blockquote><p>Like others said, if you build it with 2h and heavy Armor, you just have a bad focus spell and 5 feet movement to show for it.Lollerabe wrote:That's my point. If you build your laughing shadow as a quasi dex char with a 1h and a free hand, it's gonna suck. I tried it and it's just not good.
If you go for a 2h and heavy armor, you are a Magus with the best conflux spell there is imo.But as I mentioned a few pages back, it feels super unintuitive to ignore everything about the subclass' cascade features. That doesn't mean it isn't good tho, just not how you would imagine it to be good. And most certainly not how it...Blue_frog2022-10-03T21:28:46ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=4?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1872022-10-03T18:56:23Z2022-10-03T18:56:23Z<p>It's not that they're bad, it's more that their bonuses seem lackluster on comparaison to the other magus.</p>
<p>Their damage bonus barely helps bridge thé gap of bigger dice and then only when flatfooted.</p>
<p>Their spells are nothing to write home about.</p>
<p>Their focus spell is ok once you ger thé level 10 feat I guess but apart from a very short teleport, you should have a better use for your focus points.</p>
<p>The inventive to go dex makes them more MAD.</p>
<p>So they get a bit more movement speed - and that's about it.</p>
<p>Compare that to Inflexible Iron steady HP stream and free enlarge, to Twisted Tree Infinite true strike at reach or to Starlit Span range.</p>It's not that they're bad, it's more that their bonuses seem lackluster on comparaison to the other magus.
Their damage bonus barely helps bridge thé gap of bigger dice and then only when flatfooted.
Their spells are nothing to write home about.
Their focus spell is ok once you ger thé level 10 feat I guess but apart from a very short teleport, you should have a better use for your focus points.
The inventive to go dex makes them more MAD.
So they get a bit more movement speed - and...Blue_frog2022-10-03T18:56:23ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=4?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1842022-10-03T16:18:08Z2022-10-03T16:18:08Z<p>From what I've seen in my games, every magus has its niche - although Laughing shadow feels pretty underpowered.</p>
<p>Starlit span is great in a vacuum but when you take into account opponents who actually rush you, they're not that good. Other archers have tools to reposition and can strike anyway - starlit span is really hamstringed at close quarters. Same goes with cover. Meanwhile, a lot of fights are in clumped quarters and having a reach weapon often lets you pick another target without moving.</p>
<p>Imho, targe and Laughing shadow are weaker - but not unplayable - and the others are about as powerful.</p>From what I've seen in my games, every magus has its niche - although Laughing shadow feels pretty underpowered.
Starlit span is great in a vacuum but when you take into account opponents who actually rush you, they're not that good. Other archers have tools to reposition and can strike anyway - starlit span is really hamstringed at close quarters. Same goes with cover. Meanwhile, a lot of fights are in clumped quarters and having a reach weapon often lets you pick another target without...Blue_frog2022-10-03T16:18:08ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=4?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1602022-10-01T09:04:19Z2022-10-01T09:04:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheOneGargoyle wrote:</div><blockquote>The staff rules say "Attacking with a Staff Staves are also staff weapons (page 280), included in their Price. They can be etched with runes as normal for a staff. This doesn’t alter any of their spellcasting abilities."</blockquote><p>It's been errata'd to specify that you can add FUNDAMENTAL runes but not property runes.
<p>So unless you're a Tree Magus with their lvl4 feat, a Magic staff is pretty useless in a fight.</p>TheOneGargoyle wrote:The staff rules say "Attacking with a Staff Staves are also staff weapons (page 280), included in their Price. They can be etched with runes as normal for a staff. This doesn’t alter any of their spellcasting abilities."
It's been errata'd to specify that you can add FUNDAMENTAL runes but not property runes. So unless you're a Tree Magus with their lvl4 feat, a Magic staff is pretty useless in a fight.Blue_frog2022-10-01T09:04:19ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=3?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1142022-09-28T18:46:52Z2022-09-28T18:46:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arcaian wrote:</div><blockquote> Are we putting in different values here? <b><a href="https://imgur.com/IGZJKQt" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Putting in a basic d10 spellstrike with gouging claw and comparing it to a basic 2-strike d10 routine</a></b> shows that the spellstrike is always ahead - though not by very much at low levels, the 2-strike routine is ~96% of the damage of the spellstrike in that figure at level 1. Changing the AC of the enemy, or the level of the enemy, wasn't enough to make the 2-strike routine more damage. Changing to a d12 weapon still kept it at ~98% of... </blockquote><p>Because you have to account for Magic Weapon :DArcaian wrote:Are we putting in different values here? Putting in a basic d10 spellstrike with gouging claw and comparing it to a basic 2-strike d10 routine shows that the spellstrike is always ahead - though not by very much at low levels, the 2-strike routine is ~96% of the damage of the spellstrike in that figure at level 1. Changing the AC of the enemy, or the level of the enemy, wasn't enough to make the 2-strike routine more damage. Changing to a d12 weapon still kept it at ~98% of...
...Blue_frog2022-09-28T18:46:52ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=3?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1072022-09-28T14:26:07Z2022-09-28T14:26:07Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">roquepo wrote:</div><blockquote> Pretty sure Striking twice with Magic Weapon is only a gain compared to spellstriking in levels 1 and 2.</blockquote><p>I found the simulator I was talking about: https://bahalbach.github.io/PF2Calculator/
<p>Using the d10 bardiche from OP, it seems the breaking point is level 5 as I was saying.</p>
<p>But if we don't use this website and just calculate with 50% chance of hitting first attack, 5% of critting like you said (and that means an AC 16 at level 1, an AC 22 at level 5, pretty respectable opponents):</p>
<p>Level 1 2 strikes: 50% (2d10+4+1) + 5% 2x(2d10+4+1) + 25% (2d10+4+1) + 5% 2x(2d10+4+1) = 15,2</p>
<p>Level 1 Spellstrike: 50% (2d10+4+1d6+2+1) + 5% 2x(2d10+4+1d6+2+1) = 12,9.</p>
<p>Level 3 Spellstrike = 50% (2d10+4+2d6+2+1) + 5% 2x(2d10+4+2d6+2+1) = 15</p>
<p>So it seems SS is beaten up to level 5.</p>
<p>Also, let's not forget that:
<br />
- Two strikes is more flexible: if your first one kills someone, you can change your round. Same if you realize the AC is way too high and you want to switch to electric arc.
<br />
- Two strikes lets you move, use a skill or whatever while someone spellstriking will have to recharge at some point.
<br />
- Two strikes divides your luck. I'm an unlucky bastard and two rolls are more satisfying than a single one for me ^^
<br />
- Two strikes lets you hit different targets.</p>
<p>On the other hand, spellstrike is good when you use it with a focus spell (like fire ray or firebolt from psychic) which can be as early as level 3 for psychic, 4 for cleric.</p>roquepo wrote:Pretty sure Striking twice with Magic Weapon is only a gain compared to spellstriking in levels 1 and 2.
I found the simulator I was talking about: https://bahalbach.github.io/PF2Calculator/ Using the d10 bardiche from OP, it seems the breaking point is level 5 as I was saying.
But if we don't use this website and just calculate with 50% chance of hitting first attack, 5% of critting like you said (and that means an AC 16 at level 1, an AC 22 at level 5, pretty respectable...Blue_frog2022-09-28T14:26:07ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=3?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1052022-09-28T13:07:22Z2022-09-28T13:07:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheOneGargoyle wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Hi Blue_frog! Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!</blockquote><p>My pleasure ;)
<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheOneGargoyle wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>But at L4 I guess the expectation is that you get a striking rune so Magic Weapon doesn't do anything any more. </blockquote><p>Very true, but two attacks still outpace spell striking at that time. With the cantrip damage bump of level 5, it starts to become useful - which is a damn long time to wait before using our main schtick ^^
<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheOneGargoyle wrote:</div><blockquote> Don't quite understand this one, could you elaborate please? </blockquote><p>Hand of the Apprentice is a focus spell that you can take with a 1st level wizard feat: https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=530
<p>It's usually a bad spell for wizards because they don't use heavy weapons and don't bother to put runes on it but hey, you do !</p>
<p>At level 4 with your guisarme and a striking rune, you'll do 2d10+3 extra damage when spell striking.</p>
<p>At level 6 with an elemental rune, that's 2d10+4+1d6.</p>
<p>It loses steam quickly, though, which is why I suggested taking a focus spell from another dedication.</p>
<p>Also, in a pinch, it's a 500 feet-range spell that costs one action.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheOneGargoyle wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Not quite understanding here. What advantage does Tree Magus get with True Strike? </blockquote><p>Tree magus is the only class in the whole game who can enchant a magic staff.
<p>So for the measly cost of 230 gp (less if you play with crafting rules and specific staves), you can buy a divination staff and get your level/2 free spell strikes while attacking with your staff.</p>
<p>Every other class in the game has to wield a staff in one hand to use it and a weapon in the other one, which prevents them from using a 2handed weapon or a shield, or in the case of laughing shadow, prevents them from getting their damage bonus. Tree magus doesn't. He wields a d8 deadly d6 reach weapon and can true strike pretty much anytime he wants.</p>TheOneGargoyle wrote:Hi Blue_frog! Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!
My pleasure ;) TheOneGargoyle wrote:But at L4 I guess the expectation is that you get a striking rune so Magic Weapon doesn't do anything any more.
Very true, but two attacks still outpace spell striking at that time. With the cantrip damage bump of level 5, it starts to become useful - which is a damn long time to wait before using our main schtick ^^ TheOneGargoyle wrote:Don't quite understand this...Blue_frog2022-09-28T13:07:22ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Help! - Melee Magus actual play experience pleaseBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43oob&page=2?Help-Melee-Magus-actual-play-experience-please#1002022-09-27T13:20:31Z2022-09-27T12:03:09Z<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I'm currently playing a Twisted staff magus, and here are some pointers I hope will be useful. This is what I found optimized but there are no universal truths so take everything with a grain of salt ^^</p>
<p>1) At low levels (say 1 to 5), spellstriking is useless. </p>
<p>The best use of your low level slot(s) until you get a striking weapon is to cast magic weapon - and doubly so for an Iron Magus since you're using a weapon with a big dice. That means your guisarme will do 2d10+str (hopefully +4) and no amount of spellstriking will outdamage that. So even with a -5 penalty, it's better to attack twice and not spellstrike until level 5 or so. There are programs made by fans who'll give you the exact breaking point. But yeah, there you have it, our main feature is useless until level 5 which is pretty annoying. On the other hand, you'll deal a hefty amount of damage anyway.</p>
<p>2) Try to get a powerful focus spell. Your slots are valuable, so a way to deal more damage every fight is great. The best ways include going Psychic dedication (for 1d12+1 fire damage/2 lvl) or cleric dedication (for 2d6 fire damage/2 lvl). Going psychic also lets you get the best magus cantrip ever but you'll need 2 feats for that.</p>
<p>3) Since you took a wizard dedication, you should take hand of the apprentice. It works with spellstrike and deals a lot of damage at early levels. It will lose steam, though.</p>
<p>4) All magus focus spells suck big time. Don't use them. The only one that could be worth it is laughing shadows if you take the level 10 feat, but then that would force you to play laughing shadows which is plenty bad.</p>
<p>5) True strike is your friend. Use it, abuse it. That's also why Twisted Tree magus is the best magus by miles. True Strike into Spellstriking a big focus spell is an awesome nova round.</p>
<p>6) Always take a round to prep at the beginning of the fight. Don't rush headlong into battle with your low hp. A good first round could be Greater Invis + Cascade or GI + move depending on whether you want the cascade or not.</p>
<p>7) Don't hesitate to abuse weaknesses. Apart from the thaumaturge, you're the best at this.</p>
<p>8) Since you followed my advice (didn't you ?) and took an offensive focus spell, don't hesitate to fill your slots with something else than touch spells. A big trusty fireball, a mass slow/haste or even a mass fear at low level can do wonders.</p>
<p>9) Don't underestimate electric arc. It's everyone's favorite cantrip for a reason. Electric arc + cascade is a valid first round, and depending on the surroundings it might be better to do strike + Electric Arc instead of Recharge + Spellstrike.</p>Hello,
I'm currently playing a Twisted staff magus, and here are some pointers I hope will be useful. This is what I found optimized but there are no universal truths so take everything with a grain of salt ^^
1) At low levels (say 1 to 5), spellstriking is useless.
The best use of your low level slot(s) until you get a striking weapon is to cast magic weapon - and doubly so for an Iron Magus since you're using a weapon with a big dice. That means your guisarme will do 2d10+str (hopefully...Blue_frog2022-09-27T12:03:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: How do you balance Illusory object at your table ?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43bq9?How-do-you-balance-Illusory-object-at-your#272021-03-05T18:19:57Z2021-03-05T17:49:45Z<p>Also, telling someone that something is an illusion might help, but it won't totally negate the illusion.</p>
<p>Take virtual reality and how hard it is to walk through a chasm with a 3d helmet. You KNOW you're in your living room, you KNOW there's no lava and there's no monster coming to get you, but you still have to fight all your instincts to put your foot in the (fake) chasm.</p>
<p>Now take Pathfinder, where magic does exist and people can make mistakes. Even if your fellow orc tells you "hey, this huge pit is strange, i'm 100% positive it's an illusion", unless he steps on it first, I probably won't try ^^</p>Also, telling someone that something is an illusion might help, but it won't totally negate the illusion.
Take virtual reality and how hard it is to walk through a chasm with a 3d helmet. You KNOW you're in your living room, you KNOW there's no lava and there's no monster coming to get you, but you still have to fight all your instincts to put your foot in the (fake) chasm.
Now take Pathfinder, where magic does exist and people can make mistakes. Even if your fellow orc tells you "hey, this...Blue_frog2021-03-05T17:49:45ZRe: Forums: Advice: How do you balance Illusory object at your table ?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43bq9?How-do-you-balance-Illusory-object-at-your#162021-03-03T10:27:01Z2021-03-03T10:27:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Gortle wrote:</div><blockquote><p> This is what illusion does. It is powerful. It will almost always waste some enemy actions.</p>
<p>If you are talking about a heightened spell then it is not just a level 1 spell.</p>
<p>However, I think it is reasonable to have a lot of circumstantial modfiers. Even quite large modifiers. These are always RAW. You need to consider.
<br />
a) is the caster making any effort to disguise that they are casting spells?
<br />
b) is there known to be an illusionist about?
<br />
c) are the monsters familiar with the local terrain?
<br />
d) did you just drop the spell on top of the enemy while they were there?
<br />
e) is anyone firing through the illusionary walls at them?
<br />
f) or has someone just walked through that wall?</p>
<p>I don't think it is reasonable to create complex strutures with illusionary object. A wall is fine, a maze is not.</p>
<p>If the illusion buys the party a few actions, enough to run away or to perhaps temporary isolate part of the enemy - then it is working as it should.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Well, that's the thing, spells that create a cage or a wall of stone do exist, so there's no real reason for a group of gnolls or ogres to think the cage that popped around them is an illusion, unless the GM is metagaming.
<p>I agree that wasting actions is working as intended, but I still think it's VERY powerful for its level. A deadly encounter with a barghest and some other monsters ended as a cakewalk when the barghest lost a whole round disbelieving the cage. There's no spell at low level that would make a couple monsters (let alone a boss) lose at least one action even on a success, and more on a fail - and with no sustain.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Themetricsystem wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Yeah, I'd have to say that ANY kind of real Wall or immense obstacle would probably qualify as a Structure and NOT an Object.</p>
<p>If something cannot be reasonably picked up and moved without either taking it apart or requiring an immense amount of force/strength then it should probably be considered landscape/structure/terrain instead of just "an object." </blockquote><p>Well, as others pointed out, the very description of the spell mentions a waterfall, so if you can create a waterfall, I don't think a wall would be much of a stretch.Gortle wrote:This is what illusion does. It is powerful. It will almost always waste some enemy actions.
If you are talking about a heightened spell then it is not just a level 1 spell.
However, I think it is reasonable to have a lot of circumstantial modfiers. Even quite large modifiers. These are always RAW. You need to consider.
a) is the caster making any effort to disguise that they are casting spells?
b) is there known to be an illusionist about?
c) are the monsters familiar with the...Blue_frog2021-03-03T10:27:01ZForums: Advice: How do you balance Illusory object at your table ?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43bq9?How-do-you-balance-Illusory-object-at-your#12021-03-02T18:36:12Z2021-03-02T18:36:12Z<p>I know there's been a lot of threads about this spell but I still didn't see any elegant or definitive answer, and we now have the problem at our table.</p>
<p>For those who don't know, here's what Illusory object (level 1 spell) does:</p>
<p>Range 500 feet; Area 20-foot burst
<br />
Duration 10 minutes
<br />
"You create an illusory visual image of a stationary object. The entire image must fit within the spell's area. The object appears to animate naturally, but it doesn't make sounds or generate smells. For example, water would appear to pour down an illusory waterfall, but it would be silent.</p>
<p>Any creature that touches the image or uses the Seek action to examine it can attempt to disbelieve your illusion."</p>
<p>If you heighten it to level 2, its duration is now one hour, with sound, smell and touch added.</p>
<p>So, here are a few things you can do with it RAW:</p>
<p>Beginner shenanigan: create a 40 foot-wide wall of stone in front of some opponents. Either they go around it (wasting one, perhaps two actions) or they try to disbelieve it (provided they have good reason to think it's an illusion) and lose at least one action, even on a success. So basically, with this basic use, you've wasted one or two actions on a group of opponents, even if they save. That's pretty wild for a first level spell.</p>
<p>Intermediate shenanigan: create a 40 foot-wide cage around melee opponents. Your ranged can still hit them without disbelieving, but the melee are now trapped. They'll waste all at least one action (hitting the cage, trying to disbelieve), probably more. Again, it's pretty potent.</p>
<p>Expert shenanigan: create a 40-foot-wide maze around the opponents. They'll waste at least two or three actions trying to get out. </p>
<p>There are lots of other uses as well (a dome to trap mages or archers...or to save one of your friends who's targeted; a sphere that blinds a flying opponent; not to mention the obvious RP uses like creating a cave, a waterfall, a bridge or whatever.</p>
<p>Anyway, here's my point: I'm mastering Age of Ashes, the players are level 5 and our bard is outshadowing every other caster with this spell. His background is all about illusions so I don't want to ban it (especially since I suggested some application for the spell myself) and I don't want to use the obvious answer of "hey, from now on all opponents you'll meet will also use this spell".</p>
<p>I'm just wondering how you're dealing with it at your table, or how you would deal with it should the occasion arise. I'm a bit uncomfortable to see a level 1 or 2 spell being more powerful than, say, resilient sphere (which is a pretty good spell on its own) or even mass slow.</p>I know there's been a lot of threads about this spell but I still didn't see any elegant or definitive answer, and we now have the problem at our table.
For those who don't know, here's what Illusory object (level 1 spell) does:
Range 500 feet; Area 20-foot burst
Duration 10 minutes
"You create an illusory visual image of a stationary object. The entire image must fit within the spell's area. The object appears to animate naturally, but it doesn't make sounds or generate smells. For...Blue_frog2021-03-02T18:36:12ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=3?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#1022020-12-20T00:04:16Z2020-12-20T00:04:16Z<p>Like others already said, electric arc really is too good to pass up. The only drawback is that most opponents at low level are unusually nimble (kobolds, goblins and the like all have high ref save) but even so, electric arc should be your go-to damage cantrip.</p>
<p>As for your spell selection, I'm all for AC and +1 can make a big difference in PF2, but Mage Armor is still a waste when you're strapped for slots (and is probably a waste anyway since the heightened version follow the cash progression). </p>
<p>Good first level spells when you're first level are:
<br />
- Magic Weapon. The best bang for your buck when cast on a friendly melee (especially one using a two-hander), but not everyone likes to be a buffbot so your mileage may vary.</p>
<p>- Magic Missile. Using three actions, it's 3d4+3 automatic damage, or 10,5, which on a boss/high AC opponent is probably more than the average damage of a martial in a round. Plus the ability to split damage if needed.</p>
<p>- Fear. It's a bit lackluster because you can only have one target and the real bonus is the fact that it's still useful later in your career, but it's still a great boss spell since it has a great effect on a save. Not every group has someone who can demoralize and even then, it's iffy on a boss. Not so with fear, where he'll at least be frightened 1 and maybe 2 if you're lucky.</p>
<p>- Grease. A great friendly prone AOE with a bit of area denial.</p>
<p>- Color Spray. It'll lose steam quickly and needs some positioning but it will ruin the day of any non-boss. However, at low level, killing monsters can be quicker than incapacitate them so it really depends on who you'll be fighting.</p>Like others already said, electric arc really is too good to pass up. The only drawback is that most opponents at low level are unusually nimble (kobolds, goblins and the like all have high ref save) but even so, electric arc should be your go-to damage cantrip.
As for your spell selection, I'm all for AC and +1 can make a big difference in PF2, but Mage Armor is still a waste when you're strapped for slots (and is probably a waste anyway since the heightened version follow the cash...Blue_frog2020-12-20T00:04:16ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: What's the Best Party Configurations?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs439bt?Whats-the-Best-Party-Configurations#502020-12-18T12:16:20Z2020-12-18T12:16:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">RPGnoremac wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I dont think playing a blaster caster is bad. I kind of feel prepared casters for newer players would be really tough.</p>
<p>I am curious why new players tend to choose Wizard for blaster though. After I read the core classes Elemental Sorcerer and Storm Druid stuck out if me as the go to blasters.</p>
<p>Just as an example at level 5 a Sorcerer having access to fear for when they have low Will as a signature spell+fireball means you are great at AOE. Then for single targets you can take slow. Not go mention all the other great spells.</p>
<p>Other than that you could pretty much just fill your spell repetoir with anything. You of course should never use spells level -2 for blasting.</p>
<p>My guess is in the sample encounter players were just 100% focused on playing smart while during a campaign your focus goes all over the place with story/lore/RP. </p>
<p>This happens to me too when playing, where I do one action and realize that was dumb... I should have done something else but it is too late. Even something as simple as using demoralize before casting a spell I have done on occasion. Normally I forgot things when the battles are super easy though.</p>
<p></blockquote><p>Blaster caster is bad at low level. Most beginners will browse through the spells available to them at first level and pick things like burning hands, because hey, that's an AOE. Or they'll take Shocking Grasp because, hey, 2d12 is a lot of damage.
<p>The truth is, both those spells are just awful. Burning hands is worse than burning arc, a cantrip (7 damage average vs 6,5, with more targeting issue) unless you can somehow get three targets in the small AOE. And Shocking Geasp is an attack spell, which you should absolutely never take as a caster (read my wizard handbook if you wonder why). The only blasting spell worth something at level 1 is magic missile.</p>
<p>As for wizard, they're actually among the best blasters in the game if they poach dangerous sorcery and take the right thesis (spell blending). But that only comes online at level 5, which can be frustrating for new players.</p>RPGnoremac wrote:I dont think playing a blaster caster is bad. I kind of feel prepared casters for newer players would be really tough.
I am curious why new players tend to choose Wizard for blaster though. After I read the core classes Elemental Sorcerer and Storm Druid stuck out if me as the go to blasters.
Just as an example at level 5 a Sorcerer having access to fear for when they have low Will as a signature spell+fireball means you are great at AOE. Then for single targets you can...Blue_frog2020-12-18T12:16:20ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Just a General Question About the State that Second Edition is in.Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43971&page=2?Just-a-General-Question-About-the-State-that#742020-12-14T19:03:06Z2020-12-14T15:42:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ched Greyfell wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Blue_frog wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
It's actually great, because I had a level 10 buffed monk with 50 AC that no mob could ever touch, unless the GM would make monsters with unbelievable mods to hit-</blockquote><p>With a +6 Dex and +6 Wis, that's a 22. A +5 ring and +5 amulet makes a 32. Bracers of armor +5 would make a 37. That's 13 points of buffs to get to 50 from there.
</p>
A +4 from ki for one round, and total defense would make 45.</p>
<p>Would be interested to see the build on that. </blockquote><p>So
</p>
10 base
<br />
+6 dex
<br />
+6 wis
<br />
+ 3 monk AC bonus (monk robe)
<br />
+ 4 mage armor
<br />
+ 4 shield potion from alchemist
<br />
+ 4 ring of protection
<br />
+ 4 barkskin Ki power
<br />
+ 4 fighting defensively with Crane Style/Riposte
<br />
+ 4 crane wing until hit
<br />
+ 1 dusty rose ioun stone
<br />
= 50 AC</p>Ched Greyfell wrote:Blue_frog wrote:
It's actually great, because I had a level 10 buffed monk with 50 AC that no mob could ever touch, unless the GM would make monsters with unbelievable mods to hit-
With a +6 Dex and +6 Wis, that's a 22. A +5 ring and +5 amulet makes a 32. Bracers of armor +5 would make a 37. That's 13 points of buffs to get to 50 from there.
A +4 from ki for one round, and total defense would make 45.Would be interested to see the build on that. So
10 base
+6 dex
+6...Blue_frog2020-12-14T15:42:52ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Just a General Question About the State that Second Edition is in.Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43971&page=2?Just-a-General-Question-About-the-State-that#712020-12-19T23:20:55Z2020-12-14T13:27:59Z<p>I love PF1 and played it for more than 10 years. But for me, PF2 is just straight up better.</p>
<p>1) Three action systems.
<br />
Take it, love it. So elegant.</p>
<p>2) Tighter Math.
<br />
It's actually great, because it makes everything relevant. In PF1, you could specialize your character so that it would totally unbalance the game. I had a level 10 buffed monk with 50 AC that no mob could ever touch, unless the GM would make monsters with unbelievable mods to hit - which in turn would play havoc with our swashbuckler who suddenly couldn't parry anymore. Or a wizard so specialized that even a boss would fail on a 18. </p>
<p>3) Effect on a save.
<br />
Most spells (the interesting ones, at least) have an effect on a save. Some of these effects are actually pretty brutal. It changes everything.</p>
<p>4) Shield rules. They're so awesome everybody wants to get a shield in our games.</p>
<p>5) Balanced classes
<br />
You can do great dps as a martial with a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue, a ranger or even a LG champion. Most people cannot agree on tier lists on casters and, even if people agree that bards are in a very good place, other spellcasters are no slouch.</p>
<p>6) Elegant solutions
<br />
Heal is now a single spell that you can cast at any level. Use one action, it's a range of touch. Two actions, it's more powerful and at range. Three actions, and it's now AOE.</p>I love PF1 and played it for more than 10 years. But for me, PF2 is just straight up better.
1) Three action systems.
Take it, love it. So elegant.
2) Tighter Math.
It's actually great, because it makes everything relevant. In PF1, you could specialize your character so that it would totally unbalance the game. I had a level 10 buffed monk with 50 AC that no mob could ever touch, unless the GM would make monsters with unbelievable mods to hit - which in turn would play havoc with our...Blue_frog2020-12-14T13:27:59ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: What's the Best Party Configurations?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs439bt?Whats-the-Best-Party-Configurations#132020-12-19T00:28:33Z2020-12-14T11:03:01Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Harles wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ruzza wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Sounds fine to me. PF2 combat is a lot less about party comp and builds and more about important decisions in combat.</p>
<p>What was a typical round for your group like? I ran a three caster group (drac sorc, elemental sorc, harm cleric, giant barb) through book 4 until we hit a TPK.</p>
<p>EDIT: Also, were you feeding yourselves to enemies? What I mean is, did you spend actions just to get to enemies only to stop within range of them so they had their full 3 actions and superior bonuses to flatten you? What were your debuffs looking like? Your buffing? My group made it far with primarily frightened, prone (Cast Down still great), and slowed doing the heavy lifting along with vital beacon for combat healing (which seemed to be incredibly suboptimal, but harm cleric gonna harm). </blockquote><p>The party was purely reactionary, because they didn't have time for anything else. Fighter would put himself in the way of the priority targets and get smashed. The cleric would spend every action trying to keep the party alive. The champion would move up to use his reaction to get an attack of opportunity on those attacking the fighter (and try to reduce the damage output). The wizard would attempt to widdle away the hp of the monsters. The monk would try to move into position to flank and cause as much damage as possible to the enemies.
</p>
They could never get into a flow during combat. Buffs, de-buffs, etc., did not occur, as every available slot was spent trying to keep the party alive. The cleric (who was a new gamer) just did what he was told - e.g., "don't 'waste' spell slots for anything other than heal."
<br />
</blockquote><p>I'm having a hard time understanding how you could get a TPK with a 5-man group including a champion and a heal. Could you perhaps list the opponents in one of those fights so we can see what went wrong ?
<p>Also, at low level, a wizard's job is not to whittle away the hp of the monsters (apart from magic missile on a boss), he's really bad at it. Burning hands is no actually no better than his cantrip. Good spells at first levels include the ever-popular Magic Weapon but, if he doesn't want to be a buffbot, spells like grease or gust of wind give the prone condition to multiple opponents, while fear can debuff a single boss.</p>Harles wrote:Ruzza wrote:Sounds fine to me. PF2 combat is a lot less about party comp and builds and more about important decisions in combat.
What was a typical round for your group like? I ran a three caster group (drac sorc, elemental sorc, harm cleric, giant barb) through book 4 until we hit a TPK.
EDIT: Also, were you feeding yourselves to enemies? What I mean is, did you spend actions just to get to enemies only to stop within range of them so they had their full 3 actions and...Blue_frog2020-12-14T11:03:01ZRe: Forums: Advice: What is your favorite Caster Class?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs4398g?What-is-your-favorite-Caster-Class#92020-12-11T12:40:30Z2020-12-11T12:40:30Z<p>Paizo did a great job with caster classes, I love almost all of them for different reasons.</p>
<p>Wizard, of course, is my all-time favorite, I even made a handbook for them.</p>
<p>Sorcerers have a lot of versatility and can be really powerful with the right bloodlines (AOE-friendly blind comes to mind...). Like someone said, it's a shame that the occult bloodlines are pretty underwhelming. Also, they're the best at poaching good spells from other lists.</p>
<p>Divine Font makes Cleric very interesting to play. It's an elegant solution to in-combat healing, and the versatility of the healing spell in itself makes them pretty great. One of my favorite characters was a priest of Nethys with selective channel and directed channel. Also, you can get awesome spells from some deities.</p>
<p>Oracles are incredibly flavorful and some mysteries are actually crazy powerful (flames has an insane drawback, but is incredible against anything not fire-immune). I also love ancestry for the sheer roleplaying potential, and cosmos is the go-to mystery for those who want a manageable handicap.</p>
<p>Bards are one of the most powerful classes in the game, but they're also the most boring to play IMO. They have the best spell (Synesthesia), the best cantrips and all fights look kind of the same to me.</p>
<p>Druids are pretty strong overall. I didn't play one so I'm not an expert, but looks to me you're either a caster first or a shapeshifter first, it's a bit harder to play as a switch-hitter. But they have great focus spells and the primal list is powerful in its own right.</p>
<p>Witch is by far the worst for me. It's the weakest casting class, its focus spells and hexes were supposed to compensate but they're just bad, and its mechanism is all over the place. It really deserves a revamp.</p>Paizo did a great job with caster classes, I love almost all of them for different reasons.
Wizard, of course, is my all-time favorite, I even made a handbook for them.
Sorcerers have a lot of versatility and can be really powerful with the right bloodlines (AOE-friendly blind comes to mind...). Like someone said, it's a shame that the occult bloodlines are pretty underwhelming. Also, they're the best at poaching good spells from other lists.
Divine Font makes Cleric very interesting to...Blue_frog2020-12-11T12:40:30ZRe: Forums: Advice: What do you do to remind yourself to give out hero points?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs4392r?What-do-you-do-to-remind-yourself-to-give-out#292020-12-09T12:34:17Z2020-12-09T09:19:44Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Blue_frog wrote:</div><blockquote> Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ? </blockquote>•sighs• Because they're jerks I've known for over 25 years. Jerks though they sometimes be, more still are they like brothers to me and mine. (And what brotherhood does not traditionally come with some low-level form of abuse?) </blockquote><p>Well, the real question, and only you can answer it, is "are you actually having fun playing with them ?". Honestly ?
<p>If you do despite the abuse, that's one thing.
<br />
But if you don't (and the fact that you posted not one, but two threads to adress the issue makes me think you're more distressed than you say), then to hell with them. Life is too short to bother with "friends" who make you feel bad.</p>Ravingdork wrote:Blue_frog wrote: Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ?
*sighs* Because they're jerks I've known for over 25 years. Jerks though they sometimes be, more still are they like brothers to me and mine. (And what brotherhood does not traditionally come with some low-level form of abuse?) Well, the real question, and only you can answer it, is "are you actually having fun playing with them ?". Honestly ? If you do despite the abuse, that's one thing.
But if you don't...Blue_frog2020-12-09T09:19:44ZRe: Forums: Advice: What do you do to remind yourself to give out hero points?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs4392r?What-do-you-do-to-remind-yourself-to-give-out#252020-12-09T02:07:52Z2020-12-09T00:14:58Z<p>Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ?</p>Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ?Blue_frog2020-12-09T00:14:58ZRe: Forums: Advice: How do you avoid losing the players' attention and respect in VTT?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs43932?How-do-you-avoid-losing-the-players-attention#232020-12-09T15:00:34Z2020-12-07T08:32:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ravingdork wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
<p>What are some tips and tricks, life hacks, or just some good old fashioned advice for keeping players interested, engaged, and in line while roleplaying in VTT?</blockquote><p>Just - just don't play with jerks.
</p>
You'll find new players quicker than they'll find a new GM.</p>
<p>Any player that throws a fit like you described would be expelled from our games - friend or not.</p>Ravingdork wrote:What are some tips and tricks, life hacks, or just some good old fashioned advice for keeping players interested, engaged, and in line while roleplaying in VTT?
Just - just don't play with jerks.
You'll find new players quicker than they'll find a new GM.Any player that throws a fit like you described would be expelled from our games - friend or not.Blue_frog2020-12-07T08:32:18ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=2?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#762020-12-06T11:49:34Z2020-12-06T11:49:34Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:</div><blockquote> Yeah, the requirements are that you have to be able to cast spells of that level, and have access to them via a tradition list. Thus, even only getting the base dedication on any divine tradition class would allow a wizard to use staves of healing. </blockquote><p>Well I asked the very same question on the rules forum a month ago and, again, there seems to be no consensus on this :/Leomund "Leo" Velinznrarikovich wrote:Yeah, the requirements are that you have to be able to cast spells of that level, and have access to them via a tradition list. Thus, even only getting the base dedication on any divine tradition class would allow a wizard to use staves of healing.
Well I asked the very same question on the rules forum a month ago and, again, there seems to be no consensus on this :/Blue_frog2020-12-06T11:49:34ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=2?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#752020-12-06T11:48:12Z2020-12-06T11:48:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ediwir wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Two little things I haven't seen much in the guide and could be worth at least getting your opinion on.</p>
<p>You say that Blending doesn't give you anything until level 5, but there is technically the possibility of splitting a slot into cantrips. While it's not a power gain, it can be a versatility gain - and especially early on, when your slots are crazy rare and your cantrips are roughly equal, two at-will spells might help you stay relevant more than one single-use spell. Expanded cantrips is a lv4 feat, and even familiars only show up at lv2. You could easily have 2 spells (like other casters) and 7 cantrips, or 9 cantrips and 3 spells at lv2 with a familiar.</p>
<p>At the same time, you sell spell blending as a high-power choice (and you're right), but you can convert that power into flexibility by funneling one of your many high level slots into a staff. As you are fond of saying, you have plenty of high level slots. That does not necessarily reduce your options. Who needs staff nexus when you have blended slots to burn?</p>
<p>Second, you've highlighted incapacitation as a potential downside. What about area incapacitations like Colour Spray, Sleep or Vibrant Pattern? Your allies benefit from incapacitation just as much as monsters, a wizard should be able to use that to his advantage. </blockquote><p>I agree that cantrips can be powerful in the right circumnstances but usually I make do with those I get - especially since Electric Arc is the end all, be all of damage cantrips, that leaves a lot of space for utility. But at higher level, that can be a valid choice indeed.
<p>I'm all for using a staff, all my mages use one - which is another thing against spell nexus. Everyone can do what they do, it's just that they can do it more often per day. But every mage can get a staff to supplement his casting, get a free charge every day AND charge it once more to boost. Unless you find yourself in a situation where you absolutely have to cast 10 times what's in your staff (and then why didn't you prep the spell), it's more than enough for your daily divination/abjuration/whatever needs.</p>
<p>As for incapacitation, it's a good point that your friends will get one better on their save, but since you're a prepared caster, you'll have to choose in which slot you will cast it when you choose your spells, and that's not very flexible: if you use your highest level slot, your friends won't get a bonus (you're level 11/12 using a level 6 slot) and if you use one lower (you're level 11/12 using a level 5 slot), you're effectively only able to use it against level -1 or - 2 mooks. Even when you're not metagaming, it's usually easy to see when a monster is a boss/above your level, but it's pretty hard to know whether these three giants are at your level, level-1 or -2. So it has its uses, but I'm not sold on it.</p>Ediwir wrote:Two little things I haven't seen much in the guide and could be worth at least getting your opinion on.
You say that Blending doesn't give you anything until level 5, but there is technically the possibility of splitting a slot into cantrips. While it's not a power gain, it can be a versatility gain - and especially early on, when your slots are crazy rare and your cantrips are roughly equal, two at-will spells might help you stay relevant more than one single-use spell....Blue_frog2020-12-06T11:48:12ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=2?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#742020-12-06T10:26:04Z2020-12-06T10:24:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> [Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.</p>
<p>And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.</p>
<p>Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use the slots of that archetype</blockquote><p>Yeah, like I said in the guide, RAW it seems totally allowed to trade your specialist slots. I'm just giving a word of advice because some GMs aren't as lenient (I'm currently playing with one who doesn't let me do this) and I can understand why they wouldn't want to, since it kind of defeats the point of being a specialist and lets you get away witb the only drawback they had. So I'm just saying, speak with your GM before the game so that you don't have a nasty surprise later. It's always better to communicate on such issues.
<p>Likewise, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how Stinking Cloud works and people have at least three different interpretations of the wording. It's not as important, but my take is that talking about things like this make the game much smoother in the long run.</p>
<p>I guess it's different in PFS where things are much more by the book, but then I never played PFS so I cannot testify about it ;)</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">UnArcaneElection wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Now finished reading both this guide and <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vePSuGpuCzxCs2ET8RGWQIc1XpR62PC5cIz_c8Qmlh4/edit#heading=h.cwrengq82hzd" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Principia Arcana: A Foundation In the Unknown</a>. I like both guides, but what a difference in opinions about both Spell Blending and Bond Conservation.</p>
<p>Edit: Actually, I should say what a difference in opinions about most of the Arcane Theses.
<br />
</blockquote><p>That's the beauty of roleplaying games, we all have different opinions and ways to play our characters. Actually, one of the reasons I started this guide was that I disagreed with a lot of what was posted on other ones. Does that make them bad ? No, it's just a different way to play. Hence the name of this guide, because it's hideously biased ^^
<p>We have a somewhat competitive group where people actually try to minmax things. Not to the point of being argumentative or stack a ridiculous amount of shenanigans, but enough to feel powerful and cohesive, and be effective as a group. We actually choose our classes all together (as long as everyone's happy with their choice, of course) so that most roles are covered and it runs smoothly. That's a luxury PFS players cannot afford since they don't know who they'll be playing with.</p>
<p>This means our GM usually tries to challenge us with tough encounters and back to back action - that's where my obsession for "effect on a save" comes from, and that's where the Spell Blender really shines.</p>
<p>If your group is much more relaxed, like SuperBidi (I think it was him) said, then other thesis become more interesting. If you don't have to push yourself to the limit, getting a better familiar for roleplaying reasons suddenly becomes an option. What it does not do, however, is make you as powerful in a fight as a spell blender.</p>
<p>Also, there's one thing I just cannot wrap my head around in the guide you linked. I just cannot understand how someone, anyone, could say that Metamagical Experimentation is the best thesis.</p>The Raven Black wrote:[Nothing here excludes a Specialist's additional slots from the slots you can trade for a bonus higher level spell slot.
And nothing excludes slots gained from a spellcasting archetype either. Or from any feat for that matter.
Now, the bonus spell slot of higher level must be of a level you can cast. So, if you add it to your spellcasting archetype, it just gives you an additional slot of a level you could already cast and with all limits you already have when you use...Blue_frog2020-12-06T10:24:35ZRe: Forums: Advice: Succeeding on Recall Knowledge Checks?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438z1&page=2?Succeeding-on-Recall-Knowledge-Checks#722020-12-05T15:00:15Z2020-12-05T15:00:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">NECR0G1ANT wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Blue_frog wrote:</div><blockquote>Its ironic that most people consider INT to be one of the least useful stats in PF2. Wizards got a lot of hate because they have INT as a casting stat and it's considered less useful than CHA. It's true that Charisma has a lot of in-combat and out of combat uses, but still you cannot just ignore INT and then claim Recall Knowledge rolls are hard, it's the same as ignoring CHA and trying to demoralize </blockquote><p>Skill Increases are more useful than INT for Recall Knowledge because Trained only gets you so far at high levels (see above comments). That's why Investigators and Mastermind Rogues are both better than Wizards at Recall Knowledge even excluding class features. Even Regular Rogues can be better at RK than wizards if they want to.
<p>If INT increased proficiency rank, then it'd be a different story. </blockquote><p>They're not better if the wizard invests the same amount of skill ranks in it. Rogues and Investigators can spread out their skills much more and get more skill feats but a 20 int wizard can go (and should go) legendary in arcana, outperforming everyone who doesn't have 20 int and the same skill rank.
<p>But anyway, I wasn't defending the wizard but just saying that INT could be an interesting stat by itself (like for the investigator or the mastermind rogue).</p>NECR0G1ANT wrote:Blue_frog wrote:Its ironic that most people consider INT to be one of the least useful stats in PF2. Wizards got a lot of hate because they have INT as a casting stat and it's considered less useful than CHA. It's true that Charisma has a lot of in-combat and out of combat uses, but still you cannot just ignore INT and then claim Recall Knowledge rolls are hard, it's the same as ignoring CHA and trying to demoralize
Skill Increases are more useful than INT for Recall...Blue_frog2020-12-05T15:00:15ZRe: Forums: Advice: Succeeding on Recall Knowledge Checks?Blue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438z1&page=2?Succeeding-on-Recall-Knowledge-Checks#572020-12-04T10:33:16Z2020-12-04T10:33:16Z<p>Our GM usually tells us which skill is relevant, unless there are very specific shenanigans involved (like a shapechanger or illusion magic). So it's more like "roll arcana", "roll religion". When we succeed, he gives us a useful clue, not in a "metagamey" way but more RP. He might tell us "you remember they have a very thick skin that needs a specific metal to pierce" or "Unlike other angels, you remember this one is immune to fire" or "You remember something about this monster being much less nimble than it looks".</p>
<p>Its ironic that most people consider INT to be one of the least useful stats in PF2. Wizards got a lot of hate because they have INT as a casting stat and it's considered less useful than CHA. It's true that Charisma has a lot of in-combat and out of combat uses, but still you cannot just ignore INT and then claim Recall Knowledge rolls are hard, it's the same as ignoring CHA and trying to demoralize.</p>
<p>Regular characters with no bonus skill bumps can have 2 expert and 1 master skill at level 7, 3 master and 1 legendary at level 15. Most wizards will invest at least in arcana, probably in occultism and crafting, maybe in society. That goes a long way towards covering the basics. If there's a cleric or a druid in the group, he'll usually at least partially cover religion and nature.</p>
<p>Of course, the rolls won't always succeed, but that's what happens in PF2, you cannot pile up bonuses to get autosuccesses like in PF1. However, a level 10 wizard with master arcana will have +21 on his roll before any item bonus, and need a 27 to succeed. That's 75% chance to get a useful clue.</p>Our GM usually tells us which skill is relevant, unless there are very specific shenanigans involved (like a shapechanger or illusion magic). So it's more like "roll arcana", "roll religion". When we succeed, he gives us a useful clue, not in a "metagamey" way but more RP. He might tell us "you remember they have a very thick skin that needs a specific metal to pierce" or "Unlike other angels, you remember this one is immune to fire" or "You remember something about this monster being much...Blue_frog2020-12-04T10:33:16ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=2?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#632020-12-04T10:13:25Z2020-12-04T10:13:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">SuperBidi wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Many options give different results depending on the DM. In my opinion, Staff Nexus is close to useless without a generous GM when it comes to staves but it's one of the best Thesis if you can grab higher level staves. Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones. Spell Substitution gets crazy good if you alternate between very different types of encounters in a single day (like if you start the day at the king's court, the afternoon investigating a mystery and the evening in a dark lair) but is way weaker if you just explore dungeons. Familiar Thesis depends a lot on what your DM will allow you to do with a Familiar and can become crazy good if you have an Alchemist in the party. </blockquote><p>Well, i'm still not sold on Staff Nexus. I mean, giving higher level staves to Staff Nexus wizards isn't something you can count on and it's actually against the balance of the game, which takes into account that you usually have items of your level or less. If you give a higher staff to your wizard, then why don't you give higher runes to your martials ? It's homebrew, so it's not something I adress in the guide.
<p>Anyway, staves cap at 6th level so even with a very lenient GM that gives you a level 14 staff when you're level 11, you'll still lose a lot of steam in the higher levels.</p>
<p>Notice I didn't put it red but orange, it's still better than Metamagical Experimentation, it's just... well, worse than the two better options, and "ask your GM if he can give you better loot than the other players so you will possibly be a little bit less bad" won't push it into green territory ^^</p>
<p>As for Familiar Thesis, I put it orange as well because a familiar in itself is great - but you can get it through feats and in my opinion, either saving on feats or getting more abilities isn't enough to redeem the poor chassis you have. It's nowhere near the power jump you can get with Spell Blending.</p>
<p>As for "Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones", I disagree. If you have short adventuring days, the fights should be meaningful (if they're not and every day in your campaign is two short, easy fights, you should question the balance of the module). In those meaningful fights, a spell blender can throw a top level slot EVERY SINGLE ROUND. That's actually gamebreaking and can turn a very rough encounter into a cakewalk.</p>SuperBidi wrote:Many options give different results depending on the DM. In my opinion, Staff Nexus is close to useless without a generous GM when it comes to staves but it's one of the best Thesis if you can grab higher level staves. Spell Blending is the only valid Thesis if you have long adventuring days but it's not very useful if you have short ones. Spell Substitution gets crazy good if you alternate between very different types of encounters in a single day (like if you start the day...Blue_frog2020-12-04T10:13:25ZRe: Forums: Advice: Swashbuckler: Alternate ways of gaining PanacheBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438xi?Swashbuckler-Alternate-ways-of-gaining-Panache#132020-12-03T12:51:06Z2020-12-03T12:51:06Z<p>I really like the very hard DC rule, it gives a lot of flexibility to the swashbuckler, but it's still a pretty hard check to make, in comparison to the other regular ways to gain panache.</p>
<p>At level 10, with a +2 item and maxxed acrobatics/dexterity, you're sitting at +23 and still have to beat a DC32, whereas vexing tumble through a level 10 opponent will be around DC26-29, fascinating/bon mot will be around 25-28 and feinting will be around 28-30.</p>
<p>Might be worth it against a single boss, though.</p>
<p>So it's very flavorful, fun to do and it expands your options, but it's still a pretty risky way to gain panache, up until you're legendary with a +3 item.</p>I really like the very hard DC rule, it gives a lot of flexibility to the swashbuckler, but it's still a pretty hard check to make, in comparison to the other regular ways to gain panache.
At level 10, with a +2 item and maxxed acrobatics/dexterity, you're sitting at +23 and still have to beat a DC32, whereas vexing tumble through a level 10 opponent will be around DC26-29, fascinating/bon mot will be around 25-28 and feinting will be around 28-30.
Might be worth it against a single boss,...Blue_frog2020-12-03T12:51:06ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=2?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#572020-12-03T07:04:51Z2020-12-03T06:32:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">KrispyXIV wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Blue_frog wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Arachnofiend wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Squiggit wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.</p>
<p>That someone at Paizo legitimately thought losing all of those things for Eschew Materials was a good and balanced trade is, frankly, a little bit scary tbh. It is what it is, though. </blockquote>I'm pretty sure the incentive is supposed to be the super drain bonded item and eschew materials is an extra bonus. A Universalist should be focused on evergreen spells that you still want to cast well after they've been outscaled; using Command to make an enemy drop their weapon will always be good. Don't think I feel comfortable arguing this is better or equal to the Spell Blending Specialist, but it's sure not nothing. </blockquote>Enhanced command (level 5) is ok, but in my opinion the regular one is pretty bad. No effect on a save is a dealbreaker, and even on a failed save you trade two actions for two actions, which is a crappy deal - unless it's a boss, who'll probably save. </blockquote><p>Forcing someone to drop prone is either a lot of damage or a serious debuff if you have AOO's in your party composition. It won't fit in all party comps, but I don't think its particularly bad for a 1st level slot in many cases.
<p>A lot of spells - like Command and Fear - are great replacements for a Athletics or Intimidate specialist, if your party doesn't otherwise include those. </blockquote><p>Prone IS indeed a big debuff but command is single target and no effect on save. That's painful and, unless you're all out of higher level slots (which a spell blender shouldn't be), a weak round for you. For me, low level slots are for utility.
<p>It's also linguistic, which is a huge deal and prevents you from affecting a lot of opponents.</p>
<p>And the prone happens on the target's turn, which means unless you can abuse AOO, you won't be able to capitalize on it.</p>
<p>If I really wanted to inflict prone on a first level slot, at least gust of wind is multitarget and has a lot of utility.</p>KrispyXIV wrote:Blue_frog wrote: Arachnofiend wrote: Squiggit wrote:I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.
That someone at Paizo...Blue_frog2020-12-03T06:32:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: Blue_Frog's hideously biased guide to (spell blending) WizardsBlue_froghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs438wt&page=2?BlueFrogs-hideously-biased-guide-to-Wizards#522020-12-02T20:01:58Z2020-12-02T20:01:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arachnofiend wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Squiggit wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.</p>
<p>That someone at Paizo legitimately thought losing all of those things for Eschew Materials was a good and balanced trade is, frankly, a little bit scary tbh. It is what it is, though. </blockquote>I'm pretty sure the incentive is supposed to be the super drain bonded item and eschew materials is an extra bonus. A Universalist should be focused on evergreen spells that you still want to cast well after they've been outscaled; using Command to make an enemy drop their weapon will always be good. Don't think I feel comfortable arguing this is better or equal to the Spell Blending Specialist, but it's sure not nothing. </blockquote><p>Enhanced command (level 5) is ok, but in my opinion the regular one is pretty bad. No effect on a save is a dealbreaker, and even on a failed save you trade two actions for two actions, which is a crappy deal - unless it's a boss, who'll probably save.Arachnofiend wrote:Squiggit wrote:I sort of disagree with the assessment of the combo. Bond Conservation is a good feat for universalists. The problem is the Universalist itself is abysmal. You're reducing your total number of spells per day, limiting yourself to only preparing two/three spells per level (though the ability to pick what you recast later makes that one a bit of a wash), and giving up your focus spell. That's rough.
That someone at Paizo legitimately thought losing all of...Blue_frog2020-12-02T20:01:58Z