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Liberty's Edge

Hi all, I will be starting a Brawler PFS character soon and have decided to mess around with the Brawler and the Shield Champion archetype, so was hoping the experts here may be able to give some advice on various directions to take the character. I also have some general questions that are probably easily answered:

1) I haven't seen any official errata's for the Shield Champ, am I to assume that currently in PFS I need to take the trait to become proficient with shields as a weapon?
Also, I assume we still lose the AC bonus from class progression when using the shield?

2) If I want to make use of the shield throwing aspect, in order to keep the AC bonus from the shield I will need Quickdraw Feat + Quickdraw light shield? I cannot do it with a Heavy shield or a Throwing Shield?

So, those are the opening questions, now when it comes to the build,
Race and Stats are still up for grabs, likely Human for bonus Feat or stat, or Half Elf to help with Will saves.

Traits - Shield Trained, Shield Bearer (if PFS legal)

Feats -
1) Improved Shield Bash (maybe, until I get to the point of enhancing the shields armor, the AC is not that important, heck, Dodge would be better)
2) Weapon Focus
3) Power Attack
5) Weapon Specialisation & ?

That's really just from quickly throwing some ideas down, I am very much open to suggestion. Likely a Style Feat will get added somewhere, I have to admit I am an AC junky, so the idea of Crane Style in there is tempting, though the -2 to hit along with Flurry may be painful.

Another thing that would be appreciated is people's suggestions of what kind of Feats I should have 'at the ready' for taking advantage of the ability to gain temporary Feats - So that I can create a kind of Cheat Sheet of preprepared Feats great for situational use (e.g. Improved Trip etc. Blind Fight, is there a Feat that lets you ignore difficult terrain?). Basically anything nifty that could be great in some unlikely situation.

Thanks for any and all help.

Liberty's Edge

Hi all,
I am looking to build a Cavalier which will be making use of mounted combat, but having never done mounted combat before I am unfamiliar with the rules so wanted to get things confirmed if posible.

1) If I charge on my mount for Double/Triple Damage, can my pet also make a charge attack? If he does make an attack I assume I cannot make use of Ride By Attack? If my mount had Spring Attack would he then beable to move again?

2) If I had mounted Skirmish and the mount charged in, would I get to make a full attack and would my first attack count as a charge attack (as my pet was charging)

3) If I were riding a Player as my mount and they had pounce which allows them to move in and full attack, could my action still be a charge as we moved more than 10 feet and technically I was declaring a charge? If so, I assume that if I had Mounted Skirmish, I could not full attack with first attack being a charge as my mount though moved, did not charge

My plan is to go with a Halfling on a Wolf, I am debating whether or not to lose Tactician and go with Gendarme. I know people are big fans of the Tactician but I am not so convinced with it. THough, if I did go with Tactician, my mount benefits from the Feats also? So if I were to get him the actual Feats he and I could benefit from them all the time?

Currently the plan is to go with Order of the Sword for extra Will save and also the bonus to mounted combat.

I don't want to be a one trick pony and intend to have some use without a mount, but if I do not have Teamwork Feats, beyond Power Attack is there anything people would suggest?

Finally, I checked out the Beast Rider Archtype and it appears that if I were HUman I could get a Lion mount at 4 despite not yet being able to ride the same time the Archtype states you cannot have a mount you cannot ride. Is this just a mess up or is there something I am missing that lets a Human ride a Lion at 4.

Thanks for any help.

Liberty's Edge

Hi all,
I know ther have been a few Monk threads around but many recent ones involved multiclassing. I am going to be making a Monk for PFS, and I know the monk is a class that is easy to screw up, so I was hoping to get some build advice from the expert here.

I am unsure whether to go full offensive, full defensive or a mix of both. so suggestions for any and all monks would be welcome.

I am not too interested in being a trip/grabble etc. kinda guy and I am not really keen on being ranged, so melee builds prefered.

I am a bit of a Str junkie so likely I will be wanting a high stat there.

My biggest dilema tends to be with the different style feats. If going unarmed, Dragon looks vital, on the other hand Crane is a nice defensive style too.

Monk of Many Syles is tempting, but my concern is the loss of FOB being too big an impact on damage to make it worth while, so if someone can show how such a build would work then I would be very interested (I could mix Dragon with Crane for offensive/defensive char).

On the whole I am not interested in multiclassing, but having said that, unarmed fighter for 1 lvl to get a style feat could be considered

My initial thoughts on stats were something like:

Str: 18 (+2 Human)
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

I could of course go Dwarf and have 5 Cha and higher Wis :)

I am not a big fan of two dump stats, but Monk is rather MAd so may have no choice.

Any help is appreciated!

Liberty's Edge

Hi all, as the title says, just wondering if anyone has had much chance to play around with monks post UC and what kind of builds they have managed to make - obviously specifically with Monk of Many Styles, but by all means expand on this with any other monk builds

I really like the idea of it, Crane good defense, Tiger prety cool too, but with the loss of FLurry, how do you make up for the damage? Go TWF? That along with the style feats would be very difficult, suppose you could multiclass with Fighter to help.

I really want to try out a Monk in Pathfinder sometime soon, but there are so many choices that I would love to see what kind of ideas people have had with Monks post Ultimate Combat

Liberty's Edge

Hi all, I will be starting a PFS char soon and have decided to go 2h Paladin. I have used a Sword n Board TWF Paladin in a home campaign and while I liked it, I fancy going for the extra juice offered by a 2h.

For stats I am looking at something like:

Str: 18 (16+2 Racial)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Wis: 10
Int: 7
Cha: 15

Obviously the plan is to jump Cha to 16 at lvl 4. I've gone with the 18 Str because it always bothered me to have an odd modifier when using 2h.

I have always been a fan of great saves which is why I love the Paladin. It is also why I am considering going Half Elf instead of Human.
By going Half Elf I get:
+2 against enchantment spells (so most Will save spells)
Replace the skill focus feat with a +2 bonus to Will saves.
Immune to sleep
Low light vision
+2 on Perception (almost making up the fact it is not a class skill)

Given that Will tends to be the nastiest of all saves, having my Cha bonus, the high Pally Will save, +4 from being Half Elf seems pretty darn solid.

What I lose by not going Human:
1 Feat (Not a big issue, being 2h means my need for feats is far fewer than a TWF build)
1 Skill per lvl (This is the painful loss. At only 1 point a lvl due to Int, an extra skill would be nice)


So, what would you go for? Human or Half Elf? Will that extra skill point make a massive difference?
Also, if anyone has any Feat suggestions or even alternative point spend, by all means any and all advise is wanted and appreciated. I haven't thought much beyond Power Attack :P

Liberty's Edge

Hi all,
Just looking at the Quickdraw shield from APG and noticed that with teh Quickdraw feat you are able to put on and take off the shield as a free action.

Doesn't this mean that technically, you could be attacking with a Bastard sword (or a longsword for that matter) 2h for the 1.5 str bonus and then as a free action equip the shield so that you have shield AC during opponents turn. Then, again on your turn take it off, strike with the 2h attack and equip again? Smells rather cheesy to me...I assume I am missing something obvious to stop this?

Liberty's Edge

Hi all, I am playing a 3.5 DnD game and I will be rolling a monk. I know, first thing most are thinking is'don't do it!' It's a crazy idea, as they are an unloved child of the game, but to be honest, in 3.5 core most the classes are depressing, so I thought I could have some fun playing the underdog.

So, I was hoping some people could give me some help with the char to make him as good as he can be.

He will be lvl 5, if lucky he may have Bracers of Armour +1, and the party does have an Amulet of the Mighty Fist he could use (thanks to random loot done at the beginning).

Stat wise we rolled and so including the lvl 4 stat increase the numbers are in the monks favour.

Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 11

I can move those numbers around though I am in favour of high Str for some damage. Race choices are limited (sadly no Half-Orc) but I could go Elf to get 18 Dex, though obviously would lose some Con.

If I am allowed, at 6 I will try and get Improved Natural Weapon Feat from the Monster Manual to get my unarmed strikes to 2D6. If I cannot, I may be tempted to go Quarter staff instead (I assume you can use one 2h?) and have Power Attack as a feat.

Feat wise I was thinking of something like:
1) Weapon Focus
1a) Stunning Fist
2a) Combat Reflexes
3) Power Attack (if 2h staff)

I don't really know monks very well so am making things up as I go really, so any guidance or advice is appreciated.


Liberty's Edge

Apologies if I sound an idiot - I have not paid too much attention to the new classes and the tests, but did I read right that the Gunslinger adds Dex to damage at lvl 5? Does that mean until then he adds no damage to his attacks? Essentially making the Gunslinger damage pretty insignificant for quite some time?
I could see waiting until lvl 3, but 5 seems a long wait.

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hi all, I know there have been countless threads regarding TWF and Shields with bits of information spread out everywhere, so I was hoping to collate info into one thread for people to hopefully easily find it.
Sadly, there seems to be a lot of opinions and few firm answers, but hopefully this thread can show the arguements and give a player and DM an idea on what may or may not be justifiable. I myself am about to role a character that uses TWF with Shield and so it is something I have been trying to get my head round.
The questions I have seen around tend to be:
1) If I use a Heavy Shield and a Light Weapon do I get the -2/-2 penalty for TWF?

By RAW the answer is no - when describing Shield Bash it specifically mentions using a shield as an offhand attack, meanwhile the Two Weapon Fighting Combat rules state you only reduce penalties by 2 if you wield a light weapon in your off hand.

There are two arguements against this, one is very much opinion: Statistically there is no reason why you cannot use a light weapon in primary hand to gain the reduction on attack penalty. Normal TWF gives you at best 1d8 and 1d6 (Longsword and shortsword), while a spiked shield and shortsword gives you 1d6 and 1d6 so you are doing less damage and are further penalised by the fact if you only get one attack in a round it is 1d6 instead of 1d8. So in terms of game balance it is not unreasonable to allow this. However, as stated, this is opinion and by RAW it cannot happen.

The other arguement is this: Pathfinder rules were based on 3.5 rules and the description of shield bash was taken from that but it did not take into account the official Wizards response in their FAQ/Errata:
From the official FAQ:

Can a character make a shield bash attack using the
shield as a primary weapon or can it be used only as an offhand

While the rules describe a shield bash as an off-hand
weapon, that’s simply an assumption (that your primary hand is
holding a weapon). There’s nothing stopping you from
declaring your shield bash as your primary weapon. Of course,
that means that any attack you make with your other hand
becomes a secondary weapon.

It is a fair assumption that Paizo merely overlooked this and therefore
by RAI a shortsword and Heavy Shield can avoid the -4 penalties but the Shield must be your primary weapon and if the Wizard FAQ is ever confirmed here then it will be by RAW.

2) Can I LoH with a Heavy Shield and Weapon

Again, by RAW, no as you must have 'a free hand' to do so. However, most DMs would accept that you can self LoH as there should be no need to start rubbing yourself in a battle as that is creepy and merely placing your swordfist against your chest should suffice

3) Can I LoH with a Light Shield and Weapon
Technically your shield hand can be free enough to carry things and therefore should be usable. By RAI you can definately LoH yourself, afterall your shield hand is free and facing you so is easy to place on your chest and arguably by RAW it is also doable for the same reason - if your hand is free enough to carry an item, it is free enough to LoH yourself. Healing others is a bit more debatable, however, and I think this was supported by Paizo somewhere, you can switch your sword to your shield arm in order to perform LoH before then switching it back

4) Can I use a Longsword and a Mithril Heavy Shield at -2/-2 penalty and can I LoH?
This was something I was recently debating with BigNorseWolf. After more reading I have come to the conclusion that by RAW, no you cannot use a longsword (or any 1 handed weapon) with a Heavy Mithril Shield. This is due to this line in the Equipment section of the rulebook:

An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed)

So, even though the shield is much lighter, it still counts as a one handed weapon. Personally I disagree with this, but that does not change the rules, however you may find your DM also disagrees with this so it may be worth asking his opinion as I can see it being houseruled regularly.

Now, the other part of this question, can you LoH (just like you can with a light shield)? By RAI I would say yes, by RAW it is not so clear.
According to Mithril description:

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

With armour it is considered one category lighter, while it does not specifically mention Shields, it does mention them later to describe the effects (which are the same for Mithril shields and Armour) so if the effects are the same, by RAI you can argue that a Heavy Shield acts as a light shield and therefore you have a hand free for carrying.

As for RAW, it does not state specifically that the Heavy Shield will act as a light shield so one would assume by RAW it does not. However, if you look at shield descriptions:

Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.

Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

The only reason the Heavy Shield requires full use of your hand is because of weight. But, by the description of Mithril:
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals
So, a Mithril Heavy Steel Shield now weighs only 1.5lbs more than the light shield, therefore is it light enough to be carried the same way as a Light Shield? The ambiguity of the Mithril description regarding armour/shield means there is nothing stating this is not the case, but on the other hand nothing states it is.

As you can see, when it comes to TWF and Shield fighting, it is worth talking to your DM to find a suitable middle ground that works, else you can find yourselves spending a full gaming session arguing the ins and outs of it.

Sorry for the long post, I just thought it would be helpful to have the common TWF and Shield questions in one place (also big apologies if this has been done, as at work my internet is restrictive and even search works funky here)with opinions relating to them. All comments and own opinions are very welcome.