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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Folca's written Obedience requires explicitly traumatizing a child and is thus a step beyond pretty much any other.

We all can agree at this. However, those few obidiences that do harm sentient humanoids not all probably have the specification to exclude some categories from being sacrificed. I recently have run a game featuring demon-lord of werewolfs Jezelda. And her obedience is nasty when it is done in a moonless night. It doesn't hit Folcas level, in the sense that it doesn't target children, but its prerequisite to work is a sentient humanoid of same race. No word on how old or young it can be. I do understand that it is a long shot by going for Folca-level shock content for one-time using Jezelda, but what is mattering that the option exists (and no, I didn't use it). And I hope, that if it gets in the spotlight, the only thing that gets cut is the "option" part (by adding a line that children are excluded), or the obedience. Not the whole demon lord. In short, I hope for no overreaction.


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Ralphrius wrote:
I highly doubt anyone reading this is inspired to start campaigns to remove more/other content

The question more likely is, if someone does get inspired, will it be done referring to/using this precedent only as a hollow excuse to censor something? I agree that Folca and its theme were disturbing and warranting changes. However, Folca didn't exist in perfect vacuum as sole evil deity of the setting, there are other themes there that are equally disturbing. And even as I can objectively agree with getting them cut too, I can't wonder if the same tactic may be used just to do the same with something in setting, that someone may just dislike.

But this is just my thoughts, hope they are wrong and all going to be good.

P.S. Sorry for clumsy english (if it is), not a native speaker.


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pjackson wrote:
I have the original CoCT. In those Marcus Endrin was never the seneshal.

He isn't. But here's what guide to Korvosa has to say on who assumes the office if previous one retires or dies:

"The current leader of the Sable Company, Commandant Marcus Thalassinus Endrin, is first in line to become the new seneschal of Castle Korvosa, should Seneschal Neolandus Kalepopolis retire or die."
I'm inclined to believe that in Neolandus absence on any ocasion, Marcus should assume his role temporary. It's just that plague was organized by the Queen in such manner, that Endrin would have to remain at Sable Marines command until the crisis gets resolved. Aside from thinning the ranks of the marines and helping her to build a narrative to antagonize Marcus that they where incompetent, quite useless and dragging on the budget.

pjackson wrote:
Neolandis' fate was unknown but he wasn't missing for very long. Did the hardback change that?

Nope. However, AP doesn't have a firm timeline. Neolandus may be in rakshasas paws as short or long as GM decides.

pjackson wrote:
as soon as Neolandis reappears and denounces her she was no longer the legitmate one

I agree, however, by this time she obliterated all old and "above ground" opposition and replaced key positions in the government with her puppets. De facto yes, the laws of the city where by this time just a shell and Neolandus was right, but de jure, she didn't swept them away. Via her puppets she could legitimately drag this "Neolandus" and his claims through a bureaucratic gauntlet before he could be reaffirmed as the missing seneschal (if of course she wouldn't kill him quietly first).

In the end, it all comes down to how much depth a GM wants to put in this AP. Inheritance traditions of autocratic states are always messy. Who is powerful enough to win the internal struggle, gets to be the ruler. And as much as devils are pure evil, they are pure lawfulness too. I can't imagine for a magical contract from a personification of law (as evil as it is) to work if Ileosa wasn't by the standards of cosmic bureaucracy the legitimate monarch.


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pjackson wrote:
I don't think so. It is not normal for spouses to inherit that way (too much temptation).

Well, Golarion has some differences in inheritance traditions of monarchs.

And yeah, Neolandus, or his heir to the role of seneschal, Marcus Endrin wouldn't choose Ileosa, preferring some distant relative of Eodred or a local noble. However, isn't it lovely that former disappeared without a trace (by being jailed in rakshasas dungeon with no contact to the outside world) and the later tried to assassinate her in broad daylight? How much longer should the office be vacant in the wake of terrible situation like anarchy, traitorous coups and plagues? Maybe an influential arbiter and noble like, lets say, Zenobia Zenderholm, can state that in this dire times, a new person like Togomor, a foreigner with no ties to the city, should take the mantle. If she supports him, well, then it couldn't be that his, a foreigner’s choice, is wrong to elect her as true and only heir?
To be short, do not underestimate Ileosa. She had a plan the second Kazavon soulshard possessed her, and it worked like a clock to create her enough of a window of opportunity to get what she wants. Via manipulations and using the law to her favor, in a true lawful evil Palpatine style.


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Edge the He-Witch wrote:
My question is, how to motivate PCs into investigating the Queen’s contract to that extent. It seems like the only reason anyone would even try after she’s been defeated is if they had a desire to free her soul from Hell.

Short answer - she is legitimate monarch (no jokes, she is), they research her copy of the contract and understand that vanquishing her, by the might of cosmic bureaucracy, just passed the city from one tyrant to other. And this later guy, may use it to buy his position in hell back (which may land the city even in worse hands).


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Jay wrote:
I was wondering if this is done on purpose, is Korvosa just not very racially diverse, is it exclusionary to other races? I noticed it is mostly human but didn't realize those humans were also not very diverse.

In confinement of lore it’s not that surprising that Korvosa is human-centric city with majority of humans of one ethnicity. Being the hub of colonization in the region for their parental empire (and settled by mostly their human colonists and soldiers) its no wonder that Korvosan society and traditions have preference towards chelish-ancestry humans, who do make majority of citizens. And queen-mother Domina, as probably at some degree her son Eodred II, enforced this stance, being foreign nobility that came from now Asmodean Cheliax to rule the former colony.

That said, Korvosa is still more diverse than you may think. They have sizable minority of elves and half-elves (the Guide of Korvosa mentions that elves, even their Grand Diplomat, do love to have endless affairs with locals). Janderhoff dwarfs have very good ties with the city (treaty of cooperation, that they do honor), which should imply a sizable community of dwarfs who seek to make fortune there. Halflings, while still being mistreated, aren't officially slaves and noble houses do enlist them to run their trade ships. Gnomes aren't mentioned much, but the alternative to magical school of Academae is run by one. Blood of Angels and Fiends state that tieflings and aasimars do have place in the region, so I don't imagine them being rare in Korvosa too. Heck, one pathfinder comics even puts non-savage goblins in Korvosa (as servants for nobles, but with their own scheming agenda).

Speaking of humans, indeed, the chelish ancestry seems to make the majority of movers and shakers in city government. However, this doesn't mean that outside this structure, all major NPCs are chelish too. Outside its core districts, there are a lot of varisians and shoanty (with their ethnic centered criminal organizations, in contrast to chelish). There are those who come from mixed ancestry (as Soldato kids example). Guide of Korvosa states that in the city are communities of Geb and Alkenstar people, who came with their families on invitation of Queen Domina. Arkonas trade with Vudra brought to the city not only specific guests, but simple vudrani too, as shown by Ishanty family. And being next trade hub after Magnimar in Varisian from Land of Linnorm Kings, I can see that ulfens and even minkai people aren't that much of curiosity.
Neolandus Kaleopopolis, by the way, sounds very greek to me.

In the end, there is diversity in Korvosa. It's just scattered in more lore of the books than the hardcover of the AP (and shouldn't be judged by portraits of dozen NPCs only). I'd advice to change mostly non-governmental NPCs (private organizations, like Academae for example, can and do have non-chelish professors). Leave officers, nobles (not self-made merchants), and high-ranking government types chelish.


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Thanks Tacticslion for the advices!

Just for context, I'm searching an undead arcane spellcaster aside from obvious variants, because one of players at my CotCT run decided to depart from the game. In process he got his character (11 lvl wordcaster sorcerer) killed, but for a good reason. Characters body is now in the hands of bad guys, so they'll not pass the opportunity to make him their twisted pawn.
And yes, the player did gave permission for me to do this.


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Player at my CotCT game had the same question, so I made for him a small code of conduit for his merciful healer cleric:

1. Any wounded living creature may benefit from faithful's healing skills and abilities, if it asks and doesn't harbor (or harbored/done) any evil acts against him directly. - guideline
2. Faithful cannot harm any living creature with his healing skills and abilities. - oath
3. Faithful cannot deal any lethal damage or effects to any living creature that doesn't continuously (2 times and more in a row) attack him directly.- oath
4. Faithful should preach against war and violence. - guideline

Guidelines are, well, guidelines, but oaths shouldn't be consciously overstepped. Or divine power will be cut for a period of time until faithful atones.

Haunts, constructs and undead (sapient or not) are not subject of restrictions, because they aren't "living". Animals... Only if it’s absolutely necessary, I think. Insects being mindless, and compared to a force of nature, like storm, aren't subject of restrictions too. And protecting non-combatants - I'd say faithful of Dalenydra should be concerned more on their healing, if foe tries to aggressively stop him (dealing any kind of damage) from doing this, then he has green light.


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One thing, I understand, is already set in stone for many players and GMs who saw the art of Dr. Reinar - he is Nicolas Cage.


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You can give him something that has nondetection or misderection spell. Or mind blank. Or just say he may have a class with Aura ability, as paladin or cleric, and 11 HD.

But I have to ask, does paladin has the ability to cast his spell-like on Glorio without making it look like inappropriate move? Spell-likes do cause spell manifestations which are visible and Glorio is a respected noble (even if it's his disguise).

If Paladin goes all paranoid and starts accusing Glorio, then just play that Glorio bluffs his way saying that he's an worshiper of Asmodeus. And say as GM that he may have some cleric levels aside from NPC aristocrat class, which make his possible 11+ HD. This should restrain paladin from taking action (which he shouldn't anyway without more information - Evil alignment isn't a free from jail card to kill any NPC, for a paladin especially).


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Beliarmus may be somewhere in Dimension of Dreams. Desnian Temple of Dreams from Crystalin was transported there. Don't remember if text says it was at the Eartfall time, but it's a possibility that Beliarmius made an "emergency teleportation jump" when Starstone hit the ground.


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I'm currently running Curse of the Crimson Throne AP and party will soon get to the end of third story arc (Escape from Old Korvosa). I started AP before Updated Edition and still haven't had time to read it/take a look at changes and additions to the overall story in full detail. But I know that there is an addition with raiding Red Mantises HQ under the Longacre Building.

Considering that the place is also the training grounds for Grey Maidens, I'll make sure that PCs are going to meet some of these fine ladies. Because two of them, are sisters of their respective brothers from the party. Story short - they "enlisted" on their free will, but were conditioned, as other recruits, to serve the Queen with unquestionable loyalty (and have, time from time, "sessions" that maintain this state).

When the party will go on the raid, they will meet these unfortunate relatives in full armor and with their minds messed up. Therefore, no immediate recognition from their respective brothers, avoidance of fighting and trying to "bring them back" (not immediate at least).

Now the problem is that until the raid, party isn't yet on Queens hit list. So there is no reason to put sisters under some intense brainwashing, to make them almost mindless constructs under Ileosas thumb. Only the "standard procedure", which I think consists of spells, drugs/alchemical creations (to make the mind susceptible) and some technics (diplomacy skill maybe?).

I'd be happy to hear any advice on matter of what spells and other stuff I should use, to flesh up the procedure of indoctrination. So they too do not snap back in one round, and run away with party. I kind of hope for some roleplay, and even "accidental death" of one of the sisters for a dramatic story/motivation to really hate Ileosa and make her a villain to remember.


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Hm. Cite for this? "What can Detect Magic do" is an endless source of debate, but this is the first I've heard of it being able to pick up on a (Su) ability.

Here's the answer from James Jacobs.


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Strange, I really remember reading about Aroden being judged by Pharasma somewhere in pathfinder material.

Well, maybe I just mixed James answer with a mention in Pharasmas "Relations with other religions", in Inner Sea Gods, which says that Iomedae views Lady of Graves with some resentment because she kept Arodens approaching death secret.


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Deites do have a sole. Aroden was judged by Pharasma after his death. The matter that she didn't tell Iomedae about this event, made the latter a bit unhappy with Pharasma.


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Well, James Jacobs actually answered this question.


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This is all that I can recall on most of races, not taking in account creation myths of each one:
Dwarves initially, as Orcs, where natives of Nar-Voth layer of Darklands (no more info on this saddly). After Earthfall, those dwarves who stayed in Darklands and choose to worship Droskar evolved in duergar (and maybe some Rovagug emanations helped as with drow).

Elves came to Golarion around the end of Azlanti war with Serpentfolk from Sovyrian (one of the planets in solar system where Golarion is). Aquatic elves evolved from basic ones after choosing to live underwater.

When Aboleth called Starstone to hit Golarion, most of surface elves choose to flee back to Sovyrian using their StarGate-style portal. Minority decided to stay, but hide in various corners of the world (at north pole, in Garund jungles). Some choose to go underground. There, reality of survival in Darklands, radiation from magical ores, slow shift of their worship from Elvish Pantheon to Demons and Rovagug emanation from his demiplane-cage in the center of Golarion changed them in Drow.
When exiled Demon Lord Treerazer tried to modify elvish "escape portal" they took action, returning to Golarion.

Gnomes came from First World. More info on this event should be in recent campaign setting book "The First World, Realm of the Fey".

Halflings were on Golarion as long as humans (no info, from where they are originally).

Humans, as with halflings, have no information on the matter of were they evolved, came from another place or created by deites. Only that they were uplifted to superhumans from barbaric state by aboleths (and then kicked back in it by former masters).

Then there are offshoots of those "superhuman" Azlanti like gillmen (created by aboleths), fetchlings (azlanti who fled to shadow plane), munavri (azlanti who fled to Orv layer of Darklands), morlocks (azlanti who in pursue of blood purity devolved in them), dark folk (azlanti who stayed in upper level of Darklands), skulks (devolved from citizen of Xin-Shalast and probably some other Tassilon places) and some others that I forgot.

Ghorans (plant people) were created by Nexian wizards. Hobgoblins, as I remember, by some wizards too. Driders, vegepygmies and some other monster races are creations of Drow Fleshwarpers.

Serpentfolk, Xulgath (troglodytes) and Lizardman where on Golarion before rise of Azlant.

Skum were created by aboleths. And aboleths probably were the fist sentient beings on Golarion, before it was designated to be cage of Rovagug by Gods.

Taiga Giants are offshoot of Stone. Scrag if I'm right, from Fire. Runegiants were created from Taiga and Fire by Runelords of Tassilon. Sinspawns are their creation too.

Marsh Giants are offshoot of Ogres or Hill Giants (may be wrong on this).

Stryx are supposedly created by their owlfolk masters (again, may be wrong). And latters are from Arcadia (another continent).

There are other races out there, but I didn't look that much in their history or remember it as good as those that I already mentioned.


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Goblinblood Wars in Isger.


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It all depends on how well you know your players and what type of game will you run for them.

To explain - my players are good at making a well rounded party, so for me its a challenge to provide them... Challenge. They can overcome with ease a lot of things that are thrown at them. And considering the part, that as GM, I expanded the adventure with modules, PFS scenarios and ton of rules from other paizo material, they, at the moment, being 9th level with 1 mythic tier, can quite possible kill Ileosa without the magic sword from Scarwall. And this is while they are in the middle of 3th story arch.

If I had run AP close to what’s written, they would totally plan to do this. Maybe at her coronation, helping Endrin in his assassination attempt. This, of course, would have derailed AP heavily, and as much as I like to give players space to make their own choices, I want to stick to the story.

Therefore, I used the story - tuned down Ileosa as the Big Bad from start. Made her more "common" and all her actions hidden/done in the background. Yes, she was known to make unappropriated statements, but nothing unexpected from a spoiled young noble from Cheliax. And mostly, they were done in the circle of local aristocrats (which weren't better then her, from simple folk perspective). Only once her temper got out of control, when she lost her brooch while visiting one of the city orphanages (I started my run of AP before the Updated Edition, with its explanation how Lamm got the brooch). Then, when she got under influence of Kazavon, she became more clever and apt in doing things for the long run, besides getting massive ambitions.
To solidify her rule after Eodreds death, Ileosa needs some calamities as a scapegoat motive to act with "extraordinary power" (Palpatine-style), keep other city factions busy and take out those who can pose a threat to her.

And while she did this staying in the shadows, party had to deal with other villains, that I showed to be the ones who did all the bad things and were behind them (Reinard, Andaisin, etc). Ileosas actions in public were always explained as reactionary ones, born from necessity. With seneschal just missing and all the plague epidemic, she is regent and not Neolandus heir Endrin (because he must keep the city law and order).
She created Greay Maidens (in the first arch) as a force to rely on, because Sable Marines answer to seneschal only (in this case Endrin, who doesn't like her much) and City Guard can be vetoed by Great Families and/or Archbanker of Abadar. This organizations cannot be trusted by her, to defend her if someone like Arkonas would try a coup.
I introduced Reinard, Togomor and others in first arch, just to throw more suspects in the future. Kressida wasn't 100% suspicious only about Ileosa. Queen and her allies did a great job to make Neolandus disappearance look convenient.
When Endrin tries his assassination, Ileosas wrath is expected. Without facts, PCs and their allies suspicions are just that.
Even till now, without Neolandus, party thinks Ileosa is just possessed by a devil and Togomor is the wizard behind the curtain. Kressida thinks even simpler - that with all that happened, Ileosa just went full Cheliax-Thrune mode.

TL;DR - introduce everyone that matter earlier, make Ileosa appear as something common, rationalize through NPC-allies of the party her actions. Make her seen not as the source, but as a reactionary force. Let people compare her with Queen Domina, Eodreds mother, who was ruthless, but efficient ruler.


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It's not spelled in RotRL, but all first arc is essentially another round of Pazuzu-Lamashtu fight for Lost Coast region.
Before, Lost Coast was held by "son" of Pazuzu and Lamashtu, unique demon vrock named Uvaglor. Native varisians turned to venerating Lamashtu for help to take him down (which may indicate that Uvaglor was representing Pazuzu at the time). In the end, Uvaglor was banished by an empyrick lord priestess and imprisoned in Abbys (I suppose Lamashtu decided to do the last part). Said priestess drove out Lamashtu worshipers too, but I'd say it was a win for their side then a loss.
Some years ago, Uvaglor escaped his prison and returned his attention to Lost Coast. Red Bishop, a mothman in his service, corrupted the fishing village of Grubber's Hermitage, on the island near Sandpoint, and was the one who transformed that humble guy in serial killer/Pazuzu worshiper Chopper.
With the emergence of Nualia as Lamashtu champion... Well, in Pathfinder comics some Lamashtu cultist tried to infuse local black dragon with some alchemical stuff to make him stronger, and goblin clans from hinterland forests where lead by a lamashtu priestess.
So I'd say Pazuzu would certainly want to have Nualia killed, and not be a leader for a united Lamashtu worshiping horde of monster that control the region he wants.
And because Lamashtu is a god, Pazuzu has to achieve his plans stealthy. Using others and manipulating his way to victory.

Sandpoint Devil (that demon horse with wings) if I remember right, is some sort of Pazuzu spawn.


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Just my five cents, after one player asked me if he could sell the protoflesh from Halls of Wrath:

James Jacobs wrote:
In a case like this, where it's unclear what something might be worth, the best bet is to look at table 12–5 in the Core Rulebook and use the value per encounter per the PC's level. So if your party was an average level of, say , 14th at the point they emerged from Runeforge and looked to sell the protoflesh, I'd cost it at about 13,500 gp (which is the value for an encounter at 14th level on the fast XP track, which Runelords uses).


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As 0o0o0 0o0o0 said, Vraxeris (from Rise of the Runelords AP) tried this path. It mostly worked, but at some point, he developed some sort of mind degradation (which got worse with each new body swap). In 3.5 version, it was attributed to negative level from the spell, when he changed bodies. In Pathfinder, it's just a setting restriction (Vraxeris tried to create new, improved Clone spell, but mind degradation caught with him first).


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I put my money on Xanderghul. Considering all secrecy of Peacock Spirit religion, being High Priest of it (how convenient) and having possibly only a dozen of other underlings who knew the truth because of religion rules, it's quite easy for the most powerful Runelord to pull this plan (at least in his realm). After all, he was Runelord of Pride and master of illusion school of magic.
Possibly this fake religion thing boosted for 1-2 tiers his mythic rank. He, maybe, even have not had the mythic ability to grant spells. Xanderghul was known to manipulate and lie creatures like angels in his service (note - not binding them!), so I could see situations when some poor characters like these being send to Peacock followers to maintain, in one way or another, the charade that Spirit exists as a god.
And all religion dying after Earthfall... Well, we know that Runelords took measures to escape it. It's possible that Xanderghul is stuck like Karzoug somewhere in his private demiplane. His follower in Runeforge indicates that the pool newer flared with life "announcing" that Xanderghul is coming back. And he cannot influence the material plane in any way (artefacts like Revelation Quills, to have any form of contact with him, where rare and mostly lost/destroyed after Earthfall).
Or just he didn't care anymore - possibly this was the case for some time, until he realized he was stuck in his demiplane (and his followers died to get him out).
This could explain why Revelation Quill suddenly starts to answer - lot of questions about Karzoug could push Xanderghul to certain ideas (at least he would be happy to manipulate and help PCs in killing his rival, and then orchestrate his release).


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Wanted to say that they were from Westcrown, but after quick check realised that I mistaken Arabasti line with Arvanxi, one from wich Ileosa comes.


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Another update. So I decided to play out the coronation part. Party came back from their "out-of-town-adventures" in Palins Cove and Veldraine – used Cultist Kiss first and plot hook with Ghlaunder Cult in description of second. They reported back to Cressida, and after some small talk she invited/took them as her entourage/bodyguards to the event. It took place at courtyard of Castle Korvosa, down at base of pyramid, where Trinia was saved from her trial.
Therefore, party wandered with Cressida at VIP part, Kroft talked with some nobles. They saw a lot of Gray Maidens around, supporting the City Guard. In addition, two of Gray Maiden High Command (Lady Tearless and Ishanti older sister - from Shattered Star description of Gray Maidens). Then they met with Marcus Endrin and his honorary escort of five Sable Marines (one was brother of party rogue, who got a promotion/medal after some Black Hawk Down action in Old Korvosa in first AP arc). Marcus, being a very high status lord, didn't even said a word to the party, just gave a short noble bow when they greeted him. Cressida spoke a bit whit him (showing her respect for her liege-lord), Marcus voicing his frustration about Queen not lifting the High Alert status of the city, after plague and riots, so he can assume the role of Seneschal. I tried here to portray his growing concern and impatience with Ileosas power grab, so it would be seen naturally that he could do what he would do.
With stage set, I started the ceremony. There were seats for nobles at both walls, with the throne put in between, near an improvised stage/balcony (so simple folk can see). Kroft, as Field Marshal, stood with the party at the right part of the balcony, and Endrin at left with his marines.
First, they saw some musicians going down the stairs from the Castle, announcing the start of ceremony. Then some city guards that were stationed at the Castle. After that Gray Maidens with Sabina. In addition, behind them, Togomor with Ileosa. Players went like WTF he's doing there?! Oh it's not good...
So, everyone descended, and Ileosa with Sabina, Togomor and couple of maidens continued to the throne. Ileosa had her green dress, but no crown. She sat down in the throne, while Togomor opened an ornate box. Then, with the most royal music, he announced the new Crown for the true ruler of Korvosa, Queen Ileosa Arabasti the First. And of course it was the Crown of Fangs (Togomor didn't say it name, only showed). After his words, he crowned Ileosa. Here I described to players, that suddenly, they glimpsed some major change in Ileosa. Something subtle, that took away her look of naive and spoiled noble lady.
After the crowning, Ileosa stood up and went to the balcony, to cheering folks of the city. I made so that Ileosa, while plague and riots, made everything to improve her reputation. She gave a lot of right speaches (playing on peoples current fear and presenting scapegoats like Andaisin) and minimized her involvement in the schemes, which made her liked as a strong leader by small folk (or at least not so cheap hated as in AP).
At the balcony Ileosa gave another speech about the hardship endured, about the situation in Old Korvosa and its quarantine plan, about the unity of the people - the usual politician speech. But the twist was in that she called Togomor to her side, and in a Palpatin way "...and such, I name this man, Togomor Rotund, as acting Senechal of Castle Korvosa, until Neolandus Kaleopolis is found and/or High Alert over the city is lifted". The crowd cheered, Togomor humbly bowed down his head, Endrin, Cressida and players went "Whaaaat?". And this wasn't the end - then, Ileosa called Marcus to great the acting Seneschal. Cressida looked at Endrin with an alarm on her face, while Marcus was going red from anger. But he complied an went to Ileosa and Togomor. The last ready to shake Endrins hand.
Marcus lifted his hand, but instead of handshake, in a bullet time cutscene, he took his hand crossbow and made a point-blank shot at Ileosa (and I really had to position my players far away, to say that this is a cutscene, that Marcus has Quick Draw, Rapid Reload and used his Hero Point - only to prevent them taking any action).
In a second, everybody went shocked and silent. Probably they were waiting to see Ileosa fall dead. But no, she just made a small step not to fall. She was shocked too, but in a "you dared?" way. In a moment, she took control of herself, her face becoming a mask of cold anger and steel. With one hand she grappled Marcus, lifting him, and with other, burring his crossbow arrow between his eyes (I showed to players the image from the AP). Then, after dropping Endrin dead, with a blood on her face, she looked all over the stage and silent crowd down and said loudly "Death to the Traitors!". With these words, after couple of seconds, rogue saw his older brother being stabbed in the back with a bastard sword by a Gray Maiden. All of the marines were slaughtered in a blink.
After that, of course it all went to hell. Togomor teleported Ileosa away, bodies of marines and Endrin were taken by Maidens away in the Castle, nobles and crowd was going mad. Cressida was shocked but with a grim look on her face, ordered PCs to help her restore order until situation spirals again in mass riots.
In conclusion, party then asked Cressida what the hell happened and will she do. Kroft told them, that Marcus mentioned couple of times in frustration, that he would take the matter with the Queen in his own hands, but she didn't expected an assassination attempt. Moreover, she told them that Marcus now doomed many people. She had reports that Sable Marines were killed by Maidens, their base being sieged. Those who had hippogriffs flied away. Cressida expected that some action would be taken against Endrin Noble House and his vassal houses. Considering that her House was one of prominent vassals of Endrins, Cressida with hard hearth told that she would declare loyalty to the Crown. She has a duty to the city, and she's not going to die and burn her House only because of stupid and rush actions of her now dead liege. After that, Cressida ordered party to go to Bloodsworn Vale, to lay low. This entire situation smells very bad, so Cressida opted to shield her wild cards this way.
Now party is a session away to finish Bloodsworn Vale, then they are going to get an invitation from Glimmerhold, from party dwarfs uncle. By now, Korvosa is in a firm grip of Ileosa. Sable Marines are disbanded, survivors are in Veldraine and Melfesh. Criminals, families of marines, dissidents, some vassal houses of Endrins are busted and taken to the Longacre building by Gray Maindens. Endrin House was couple of nights after the coronation slaughtered by two of their minor vassals, who then declared loyalty to the crown. After that, all others in East Shore did the same. Church of Asmodeus praises the new Queen. High-status abadarians are doing the same. All other faiths just go silent. Gray Maidens are seen more often in their actions and numbers, and City Guard is more in a support role to them. Old Korvosa is fully quarantined, with plague, fires, crime wars, Pilts mobs and occult phenomenas rampaging all around.

Edit:
Before the ceremony, party had a day to rest/get ready. PCs went to check on their family members (who had them). And one of the younger sisters of rogue (who didn't die from the plague), enlisted in Gray Maidens. As did the sister of party sorcerer-wordcaster, when she got an invitation from Ishanty sister, while the last was in Academae, looking for recruits with great potential.
Oh, and Biston is rebelling again. Now supported by Ilsurian-Whistledown-Turtleback Ferry-Sipplerose Coalition (aftermath of Rise of the Runelords party actions in the region). They used a rag tag fleet of lake/river pirates to burn down Korvosan lake fleet in Melfesh. Killed two rabbits with one stone, eliminating most of the pirates and korvosan ships.


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Ok, maybe I'm strange, but I don't see a problem if he just skimmed AP. There is a problem if he read AP cover to cover, remembers every detail, every name, every plot twist, every monster statblock and uses it, by telling every player what is next behind the corner.
But by your words, he just skimmed. And kicking him out for this... This is overreacting.

To explain - my players are mostly GMs who know the setting and other APs as much as I do. They knew the overall plot for RotRL that I run, they know the plot for CotCT that I'm running, and know the overall plot of Second Darkness that I will run. And I know the overall plot for Kingmaker and Skull&Shackles where I am a player. I didn't kick anybody for this, and wasn't kicked myself.

And seriously, Players Guide for AP, Inner Sea World Guide and the name of AP give a ton of information about who Big Bad/s may be, and where they (he) probably is.

My point is - it's not about how much he knows, it's about how blunt, often and disrespectful he uses it.
And knowing that there will be giants in AP, with Giant Slayer trait in its Players Guide, isn't much of a crime, or that he would go one-shot killer against them (besides, at 13-15 level party will kill anybody in their way in 3 to 5 rounds, despite who they are).


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
I was thinking more in terms that the decemvirate of the Pathfinder Society might want him alive.

Why I didn't think about this! Considering that I have put Xanderghul as one of Decemvirate.


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Well, I want to run all cheliax-themed APs, but with a goal of restoring/empowering Cheliax. At the end of CotCT my players will have to make a decision, support or not return of Korvosa back to Cheliax (this movement will be represented by Leroung-Jeggare-Church of Asmodeus-Hellknight-Academae/Ornellos alliance). After that, Council of Thiefs AP, but without all secession-style rebellion. Hells Rebels probably will be reworked so party would stop Barzillai and anti-cheliax rebelion. Hells Vengeance will finish this "Cheliax Campaign".
Thinking to throw in the mix Skull and Shackles, but again, reworked for pro-Cheliax party, and Way of the Wicked set in Andoran.


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Red Bishop, if I remember correct, is in the employ of Pazuzu-Lamashtu child (detailed in Demons Revisited or Unleashed), who in turn supports his parent in his "cold war" in Lost Coast against Lamashtu followers.
From this perspective, the whole first arc of Rise of Runelords is more about another round of Pazuzu-Lamashtu fight.


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Name of PC: Feivel Class/Level: Samaran Witch 16 lvl
And his brave cohort, Johan Ma'Cloud Class/Level: Human Unbreakable Fighter 14 lvl
Adventure: Spires of Xin-Shalast
Catalyst: That awesome crit cleaving from a Rune Giant.
Story: My party got sihedron rings from Ghlorofaex and Gamigin, but that was that. Hidden Beast in my opinion wasn't worth giving a ring by Karzoug, considering decapus motivation to be and Karzougs intention to actually visit the creature. Ghlorofaex was bumped to ancient wyrm status only to make my players at least think about possibility to talk to him (they are so overpowered that an old dragon is a fight for maximun 4 rounds, even ancient wyrm would be something like 6-7 rounds). Luckily, skulks told PCs about Gykak, and he, in turn, introduced them to the dragon in a manner that they could talk. Playing on the greed and pride of the dragon, they managed to get his ring (in exchange for their blood, some coins, and life stories - for scry and other contingency reasons). Gamigin was sent by Karzoug to kill them at Hidden Beast lair, when they were fighting the decapus (Feivel and his cohort were wearing Sihedron Medallions).
Others who had rings were Rune Giants scattered across the city. But the problem was that they were usually surrounded by hundreds of other giants, and always moved in units of 3 giants. Gykak, seeing that party has a goal that can create a distraction for his "Spartacus rebellion", agreed to help them. He showed on the map were a shift change between two units of Rune Giants happens, and promised to put his giant supporters around that place, so no help would come to targets. Ambush was scheduled for next day.
And it started. 3 giants were mazed away, another killed in first round (I maximize hp to all party foes) by summoners eidolon and 2 or 3 finishing shots from magus cohort, Shalelu. Then it got dicey. Sixth giant was lucky to survive long enough (the final 7th round) to swing his greatsword one last time. By this moment he was facing witch PC, Feivel (whos touch spell, that brought him there, was overpowered by giants +23 to will save), witchs cohort and summoners eidolon. So rune giant decided to cleave. First target was Feivel. Obviously, he was hit. With a natural 20. Confirmation was successful, and he was chopped in half like a tree by something like 85-90 damage and crit card effect. Then he went with cleave for Johan. Another hit and a critical one (critical focus feat on greatsword). Confirmed again. Player decided to cash out Johans achievement feat, Graverisen, and save the poor guy from dead. However, he forgot that critical card from the hit made Johan to provoke an Attack of Opportunity. So giant kind off returned his chopping-in-half-gargantuan-greatsword back to Johan. This wasn’t a crit this time, but enough to kill (he was pretty badly beaten before - have been brought back from death, that occurred on the second round of the ambush).


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Tacticslion wrote:
This sounds cool! Where is it from?

Pathfinder Journal fron Spires of Xin-Shalast arch of 3.5 RotRL.

Tacticslion wrote:
Either we've run into a weird (un-clarified) retcon, or there's some history missing we're unaware of. Thanks!

Yep, thats them. I remember reading about them, and how they rulled Thornkeep with an iron grip.

Tacticslion wrote:
Hm... it was definitely Korvosa who invited them, but reading into the Order a bit more, you are correct that they have ties to Magnimar...

Yeah, Domina invited Order of the Nail in Varisia. But after years some of Justices in Magnimar decided, that their city needs more LAW. And they sent an invitation. Naturally, Order of the Nail jumped at the opportunity to increase its influence and power. If I remember right, now Justices don't know how to politly send them away from the city.


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Devastation Bob wrote:
But if they're there to uphold the law, which law?

As a Hellknight said to Eando Kline - all laws are his laws. Hellknight in Andoran will uphold Andoran laws, while he is in the country borders.

Tacticslion wrote:
The three Hellknight orders that exist beyond Cheliax

There's another one, who is stationed in the village near Emerald Spire in River Kingdoms. Order of the Pike if I remember its name right.

Tacticslion wrote:
none of the orders actually have any dealings with definitively non-Chelish countries.

Is Magnimar a non-Chelish city-state (considering it being found by ex-Korvosan citizens)? If yes, then Order of the Nail has this sort of dealing. They were invited in Magnimar, and have there a dozen or more of hellknights in their Bastion of the Nail. Guys are credited for free patroling places where city guard doesn't go.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:
...but consigning the souls of people that did not agree to Asmodeus worship (however encouraged) to Asmodeus anyways should probably raise an eyebrow or two among the gods.

Well, probably it does, but you don't mess with the guy who has the key from Rovahgug prison.

And, probably, if I mess with his little domain in Golarion just because his mortal follower willingly came to him and did what was expected for her to do, he has the same excuse for messing with mine folks. Simply put, I don't belive gods go punch the crap out of each other on the basis of the results of how their followers interact with other followers. If his proxy did something, encourage yours to do some opposing actions. If he personaly did it, well, show the facts to others and get your silent approval to kick him in the face. But this is my point of view on the matter of how gods do things.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:
As I was typing all this, I got to wondering about Cheliax and the third damnation of house Thrune. Leave aside paladins serving as Hellknights, how on Golarian have the paladins of the world not banded together to depose Abrogail?

1. Last legitimate pretendent with, probably, strongest claim on imperial throne, Sheraya Solistar, decided that being pathfinder is more pressing then saving her country. She paid the price when she disappeared in the expedition in Tusk Mountains. Without her, balance of power really shifted in Thrune favor because, probably, all other pretenders had a claim on the imperial throne no better then they had.

2. Civil war that raged for 40 years? People were kinda happy to see that at last somebody won. Minority who was against House Thrune was in Sargava, or was disorganized to mount an efficient rebellion, or just fled to Andoran or other countries. Therefore, the people in Cheliax accepted House Thrune as legitimate winners of civil war.

3. People probably accepted Asmodeus as new state religion because with him House Thrune filled the vacuum after Aroden. I don't think Thrune and other clear minded folks wanted new Oath Wars.


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Paizo Blog wrote:
gray paladin (can be one step from lawful good and smite any foe, but the lack of absolute conviction makes many abilities less absolute)

I think we have now the answer how can paladins work with hellknights.


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Hm, I should have done something like this. A lot of disrespect for her character from my players comes fom that she is from Cheliax ("Its all Cheliax!"). When I mentioned that all the monarchs in Korvosa were kinda from Cheliax, they were like "Really? Oh...". But I'll try by some off-screen dialogs and other stuff, to show that a lot of people are thinking if Ileosa is next Domina or not (to explain why they aren't thinking she is going all mad bloody tyrant, but trying to be as good as her dead husbands mother).


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Some update on my plan - party was directed to see the corpse of the dead judge from Trinias trial. As expected, they found the Seneschals signet ring kinda suspicious as evidence. The cuts from medical equipment however, gave them enough to think that Nicolas Cage (players demanded from me to refer to Davalus as Nic Cage only) was behind or, at least, highly involved in death of King Eodred (besides of the whole plague plot). Moreover, maybe that Seneschal, who is conveniently absent and officially invited the good doctor, was indeed in league with him. Nevertheless, they will never know - Red Mantis supplied Davalus with an acidic poison, planted in his teeth. He took it, while being interrogated by players, killing himself, melting the jaw to prevent use of "speak with dead" and poisoning his blood against "blood biography" (yeah, my players do like to abuse this spells).
Had to cut away Andaisin knowledge about queen’s involvement too, so there was no info documented by her somewhere (at her town manor for example) to be found by City Guard investigation. At the end, Ileosa gave a speech to cityfolk, making Davalus, Andaisin and "her" cultists scapegoats. Banned Urgathoa religion from the city, which gave her some points of respect from the players.
At least now they accept the possibility that Ileosa isn't the only candidate for the title of the main antagonist.

P.S. Bahor came again as a great ally to the party. Cannot wait when they will help him get control over Old Korvosa back and eliminate Vimanda. If I'm lucky, Bahor will keep his alter ego as Glorio and push his agenda to take over the city. Some players even have expressed desire to change korvosan hereditary monarchy to elective one, from noble ranks. If in the end, it will happen, I think Bahor is set to become new King (one of players said that he will support Glorio).


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Name of NPC: Johan Ma'Cloud
Class/Level: Unbreakable human-Fighter 11 level
Adventure: Sins of the Saviors - Halls of Wrath
Catalyst: Crit and Coup de grace
Story: A game without Johan dying isn't a true RotRL game at our table now. And yes, he died again. Two times. First - crited by Sinspawn Axeman. Second - while helpless (from a condition, if I remember right) his throath was sliced by a Warrior of Wrath.

This is Johan.

Probably I forgot 1-2 of his deaths, so counter is between 9-11 at the moment.


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For now, my players do think the queen is going to be the ultimate bad guy in the AP or there's a devil behind her. Still, I'm actively trying to support her actions with some solid arguments and shift the suspicion to curiously absent seneschal. One of the current schemes - party soon shall stumble upon dead Judge, who was invited (and charmed plus suggested) by Ileosa to find if Trinia is guilty or not. I explained, that it's seneschals prerogative to run such things, but while he's absent and Markus Endrin cannot leave his post as Commander of Sable Marines in time of civil unrest and without a replacement, Ileosa asked Judges to send one of theirs for the job. After the whole botched execution, he became a loose end, so Togomor (and in extension his devil-master) introduced himself to the Queen and suggested, that he will take care of the problem. Ileosa send Davalus to watch over Togomor, but of course, he was no match for the devil. The last took control of the good doctor and send him to murder the judge using some specific medical instruments. After that, Togomor placed a personal item of Neolandus in judge clothes, to give anybody who will find him a red herring in direction of missing seneschal. Devil them modified Davalus memory to remember that everything went well. Togomor then explained to Ileosa separately, that if somebody wouldn't believe in Neolandus being behind of all bad things, the nature of the wounds on judges body will point on Davalus.
In addition, I introduced Davalus early - party bumped in him, while they were going to the audience with the Queen. Some of them recognized him as Kings personal physician, who came to Korvosa by Neolandus invitation (and Ileosas lobby, which isn't publicly known) to cure the ruler weeks before his dead. Neolandus, by the way, is rumored disappearing somewhere before or immediately after Eodred fell bedridden.
Moreover, as with Davalus, I introduced Togomor to players in the first book too, when he hired the party to take a package from his contact in Academae. And I sense book 3 will be a blast considering the start with him being named as replacement to Neolandus and that Arkona, the party only pragmatic ally (as they see him), is a rakshasa who bluntly used them all the time.
The only thing I regret, that I haven't staged Lady Andasini beyound a brief description at the Trinias execution.

P.S. When players saw the art for Davalus they said, that you know something is bad here when Nicolas Cage is Royal Physician.


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Don't forget giant (true giants, ogres, trolls) kingdoms where Tassilon was. Almost no elves and half-elves, no gnomes. Depending on timeline - no orcs, half-orcs and dwarfs. Nidal seen as the most safe place in Avistan region (no the best, just the safest).


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If I remember correctly, Order of the Torrent is mostly LG. And they are hellknights. Attacking somebody just because he works for an organisation, that has some ties with autocratic goverment - its lawfull stupid.
"You, postman! You live and work in and for Cheliax! Now I'll smite you to death because of this! In the name of Good!"


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Fast exp advancement, hero points, weak tactics for adversaries and a lot of help from NPCs.


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Long story short - in my game, lamias backed Galenmir as new leader of Jorgenfist army, after party assassinated Mokmurian and teleported away (lamias killed Conna). They had to return, slay the lamias, enforce Galenmir to side with them, to pacify the giants gattered by Mokmurian once and for all.


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Didn't know about retcon with Aspis Consortium. Oh well.

And its quiet possible that Xanderghul awakened after defeat of Karzoug. More specific - after party that killed him, left Runeforge. Remember his minion there, Vraxeris, was very disappointed, when he understood that it was Karzoug, not Xanderghul, was awakening (which, curiously, implies that each return of a Runelord may spark runewells to life - or just the pool in Runeforge). And Vraxeris was inside Runeforge all the time after Earthfall, so he couldn't miss this event.
On the other hand, Xanderghul, as JJ stated, was smarter then other Runelords. Maybe he created a method, that hid his returning from connection with the pool in Runeforge. A smart move, if other Runelord is already awaken, rules all along and doesn't want competition.

And there's other thoughts about Xanderghul - we know that by himself he's a powerful spellcaster. He has some cool artifacts and access to some old vaults of his domain, that survived Earthfall (it's possible). He's smart, but on other side full of pride about himself. Can he eat his pride, to not start his returning with a plan to conquer all Avistan with some Tassilon army? Yes he can. When he made his Sword of Sin, he wanted to use it by himself (coz pride), but understood fast, that he's lame at sword fighting. So he lures an angel and charms him to be his champion. He is capable of understanding that he has weaknesses, and overcoming them with his intelligence.
But the main question is, even if he can lower his pride and accept some weaknesses, would he do it?
If you answer Yes, and want him awakened long ago in your campaign - well, then he's truly hard to stop by this point. Almost impossible.


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Not long ago I asked JJ directly, if Xanderghul is Peacock Spirit. Here's the anwser. It's not a definitive Yes or No, but in my opinion, this means that Xanderghul is Peacock Spirit. He isn't a god obviosly and doesn't grant spells to his followers. He's too arrogant to give something back for being worshiped.
Given how secretive was Peacock Spirit religion, it's an excellent tool to fool worshipers, that they need to ascend further in its rank to be worthy for gods blessing and help. An excellent lie for master of illusions.
So Peacock Spirit is his alter ego, but it's just a fake idea. Maybe to fuel his Pride Runewells. After all, runewells where power batteries of Runelords. This may explain his personal power over illusions and binding outsiders, and his mythic tiers.
About idea that he is active now - if he is, he greatly won from demise of Karzoug, Krune and Xin. He even could help some parties from shadows with dealings with his rivals.
Maybe he's the mysterious leader of Aspis Consortium. Or one of Ten in Decemvirate. Position in the last one is a great opportunity for him to keep tabs on his fellow Runelords. And hoard artifacts or other usefull stuff for himself.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Ashkar wrote:


1. Where elves exploring Darklands before Earthfall?

1) No.

But what about the elven gate from Sekamia (Second Darkness AP) that leads to Kyonin? Was it built by elves, before they transformed in Drow, and forgoten?

Other questions:
1. Did Ulfen culture appear after Kellid? Was it a mix between varki and kellid?
2. What was in place of Inner Sea before Earthfall? Was there anything interesting, like some cyclop lands? Or it was populated predominately by primitive kellids?


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So small? I really had impression that elves, even not being land grabbing, had a big domain (not confused with high population to fully control it). Even if it was only forrest terrain/outposts that they guarded from incursions of other races.

Other questions:
1. Where elves exploring Darklands before Earthfall?
2. What was their opinion of Thassilon and Azlant?
3. What were their relations (if they had them) with Serpentfolk, Lizardfolk and Cyclops?


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How big was elven domain on Golarion before Earthfall? Which modern Golarion countries could fall in those boundaries?


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Did this "something else" seized the moment and sread its influence in Korvosa and its domain settlements after CoCT?


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What is going on in Abken? Is this village Korvosan version of Ravenmoor?

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