paizo.com Favorited Posts by Al-Khenpaizo.com Favorited Posts by Al-Khen2023-01-10T20:13:46Z2023-01-10T20:13:46ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Magic Missle Glove of Blasting.... Is this legal?Al-Khenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2udtd&page=2?Magic-Missle-Glove-of-Blasting-Is-this-legal#512017-06-04T14:16:21Z2017-06-04T01:46:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mellok wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities. </p>
<p>Your equation is wrong for multiple similar is wrong if it were multiple similar, which it is not, it would be
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1800+1800•0.75+1800•0.5•23 = 23850 gp base
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</blockquote><p>No matter whether its similar or not, I didnt apply it. It only works on slotless items. Plus, it isn't exactly different abilities (would you qualify a a slug of ammunition different from the others in the case it came in?) So different abilities increase wouldn't happen either.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mellok wrote:</div><blockquote><p>“Other Considerations: Once you have a cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:”
</p>
</blockquote><p>Ah, my math was slightly sour then (That is if the discount happens before dividing the cost by two and multiplying by 25. It was a discount so I grouped the discounts together - maybe in the wrong area).
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mellok wrote:</div><blockquote><p>You can apply the highest reduction the item qualifies for ..
</p>
</blockquote><p>Source on that please...?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mellok wrote:</div><blockquote><p>All three traits you listed are Magic Traits and while I am having trouble finding the source, it may be PFS, you are only supposed to have 1 trait from each category. So only one of the 5% discounts can be used. So
</p>
</blockquote><p>You are correct and rightly so. But not ever DM follows that as it would be a little cliche for a ppersons wizard who had very little contact with anyone, little combat exp, no religion to speak of, and so forth (if they made their character story that way), to be told they couldn't double up on magic traits. Very few GMs, in my own experience, follow this, but thats not to wave your correctness. You are correct and if I redo the math, I'll factor that in.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mellok wrote:</div><blockquote><p>"The multiple similar abilities rule is specifically for items that don't use a magic item slot (such as staves), and can't be used for items that do use a magic item slot."</p>
<p>So its multiple different, not multiple similar so
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1800+1800•1.5•24 = 66,600
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66,600•0.95•0.70 = 44,289
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</blockquote><p>Its not a case of using one or the other; its never that you use one or the other. It is a case of if your eligible for those discount or increase, you use it. Magic missile is not different from magic missile!
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mellok wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Its being crafted as an equipment slot item that breaks the rules for staff creation and uses the easiest to get and most versatile crafting feat. Its is most certainly multiple different enchantments and by no means meets the test for similar enchantments. Each enchantment adds to the intended effect and multiplies the action economy value, saying anything else is miss leading to people who don't understand magic item creation.
</p>
</blockquote><p>Please clarify that last point. We were talking about gloves, not staves, and it seems that you through in more stuff from before.
</p>
On the action economy point, whole heartedly agree, but we are going into legality, not "it shouldn't be done".</p>
<p>[Edit]:
<br />
I understand your stave comment now.
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a buddy and I went into the math for staff and wondrous item creation because staves are the only reusable magic item that allows your characters ability scores to be factored in to what they cast.
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And his question was why he wouldn't have a number of staves doing a spell instead of a WI that did a spell twice per day.
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In the end, I showed him it was priced equally, the only difference was as pretty much any caster you wouldn't be able to stay on top of the recharging for the multiple staves at all. So while staves could be made at low costs and then you'd supplement your own stats for dc's and such, it was impossible to upkeep them to be usable as much as wondrous items.
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IE: staves have their place and wondrous items have theirs (but in this case, oh, oh absolutely it breaks that that relationship... To an extent at least)</p>Mellok wrote:Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.
Your equation is wrong for multiple similar is wrong if it were multiple similar, which it is not, it would be
1800+1800*0.75+1800*0.5*23 = 23850 gp base
No matter whether its...Al-Khen2017-06-04T01:46:19ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Magic Missle Glove of Blasting.... Is this legal?Al-Khenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2udtd?Magic-Missle-Glove-of-Blasting-Is-this-legal#372017-06-03T05:44:09Z2017-06-03T00:46:55Z<p>Not looking for hate, but putting the numbers down for effective crafting of the object and then what it would look like for making something comparable through comparing the effect to what tier of item it should actually be:</p>
<p>Assumptions - he's a dwarf wizard with 3 traits and a drawback; the three positives being Eldritch Smith, Hedge Magician, And Spark of Creation.
<br />
Each of those traits decrease cost by 5%, and through restricting the item to class, alignment, and skill (spell craft or use magic device or sleight of hand, etc.), the discounts added in are 30%, 30%, and 10% respectively.</p>
<p>Magic missile stacking on an item would technically fall under similar abilities (cause what's not more similar to something than the exact same thing; apples to apples, oranges to oranges and such), however, that discount only applies to a slotless items.</p>
<p>We have our discounts now. The item described was a command word magic missile stacked 25 times.
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Thats ({1800 × 1×1 × .95^(3) × .7^(2) × .9}/2)×25
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Which is 8,507.3034375 rounded to 8,507.3 GP + Scroll cost to facilitate each additional casting (using 25 scrolls to make cost more cut, less eratic, and buying them) for each day (9 days×25scrolls×25gp=5625)
<br />
Total cost is 14,132.3 GP</p>
<p>The item itself is command word Magic missile×25:
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Thats 1d4+1 25 times to any combination of targets; minimum of 50 DMG, maximum of 125, a middle ground of 75-100 DMG. Thats coupled with a sub-effect of always hit (true strike) but can be blocked by shield and spell resistance. For the sake of argument (although almost any spell resistance would trump most of the DMG, or even a single shield spell IE a lvl 1 spell!), because of its high and auto hitting DMG, let's just say its on par with a lvl 9 spell (as some lv 9 spells get this high in DMG).</p>
<p>Our formula would be a little different then:
<br />
({1800×9×17×.95^(3)×.7^(2)×.9}/2)= 52,064.6970375 rounded to 52,064.7 GP give or take a bit if you wanted to add a truestrike effect (which I'd advise against as again this is already harder to dismiss than lv 1 cl 1 spells are).</p>
<p>With that in mind, I'd say this runs you the base cost of a comparable item price to craft. Its not that much better (by miles it isn't) but its still approximately the new cost that can then be modified further by the gm.</p>Not looking for hate, but putting the numbers down for effective crafting of the object and then what it would look like for making something comparable through comparing the effect to what tier of item it should actually be:
Assumptions - he's a dwarf wizard with 3 traits and a drawback; the three positives being Eldritch Smith, Hedge Magician, And Spark of Creation.
Each of those traits decrease cost by 5%, and through restricting the item to class, alignment, and skill (spell craft or use...Al-Khen2017-06-03T00:46:55Z