7heprofessor's page

After finally having the time (been out of town for a bit) to look it up, you are entirely correct. Whoops!

(Somehow, I'd read that passage a lot, but missed that one line repeatedly. Sorry, and thanks!)

That said, I think if you presented a pretty fool-proof way to ensure a tiny god doing good (homunculus is your alignment; you can voluntarily accept an atonement as part of this process) the bargain could be made, but it's better to stick with the player-controlled elements such as efreeti.

Good call, there. :)

Glad you liked the rest of it, though!

Not a problem, this has been a very informative exercise for me, so I'm glad I could help others as well. I do agree that sticking with the efreeti removes much of the potential for nay-saying. Though, having a Solar aid us sure would be nice!

Magic crafting can be accelerated to 4 hours/1k gold value by increasing the DC by 5, but I'm uncertain that crafting constructs follows exactly the same rules for magic item creation. Anyone have any ideas?

the above link wrote:

Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. <snip potions and scrolls> This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit.

(bold mine)

Also,

still the above link wrote:

A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used

...

Rather coincidental that you posted this last night, as right around that time I was just stumbling on the magic item creation rule you cited. Thanks for the link though, it's nice to have this all in one place.

Do you know if we can accelerate this even further by adding 5 to the DC multiple times? A strict reading of the RAW would leave me to believe no, but I have an idea in mind that would allow us a nigh-infinite Spellcraft check, so being able to expedite Timmy's creation further would be great.

I do believe that a construct counts as a magical item in all respects; so that 1 at a time limitation would apply. Additionally, I don't see any differences in the creation of constructs vs. other magical items, save for the individual constructs varied requirements and modification rules.

The spells are already there, it's all about how you use them. It's takes a GM that will allow spells to do things outside of their descriptors at times, but justifying them is not difficult.

A player of mine once used Ray of Frost to freeze a bunch of water in buckets. Then chopped it up and put their freshly killed game in with it. This let them have "rations" for two days instead of one. Not too shabby for a cantrip.

Lullaby was used to help an insomniac get some z's.

Prestidigitation's uses are limitless (some have already been mentioned here).

Comprehend Languages was used on an infant to hilarious effect!

If your love life is stagnant, Disguise Self can be used to get your partner back into "the mood"!

Seriously, look at any spell, and I can think of another use for it.

Scorpion Whip:

Scorpion Whip wrote:

It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

Solves the damage issue for 4gp.

Correct, but that is from Ultimate Combat, not the Core rulebooks. Very useful for when we move outside of Core though. There's a slew of Whip-related feats we can take advantage of at that point.

A permanent spell is an active spell. It can be dispelled. It therefore goes away with the summoned creature. An Instant spell cannot be dispelled. They don't go away with the summoned creature.

Fair enough, that's confirmation enough for me. Not really interested in arguing semantics, so I'll let this lie.

He cannot ignore the crafting feat(s), and for some things, cannot ignore the spell. [Scrolls, Wands, etc.]

Correct. To specify from the PFRD Magic Item Creation rules:

"In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites."

We don't currently qualify to take any of these item creation feats anyway, so that's rather moot. Once we incorporate the Ultimate Magic rules of adding spell-like abilities, this will become relevant again.

Some SLAs are not pegged to HD/levels. These should remain. Ones pegged to HD/levels remain only if enough HD/levels remain. Check out the Simulacrum thread. Some previous posts to mine have James Jacobs' thoughts on the spell, as well as many questions answered.

/cevah

EDIT: Added Simulacrum stuff

Glad to hear this is going to work. Sounds like we have a pretty solid resource-generating scheme via Candle of Invocation to summon Efreeti to create Simulacrum to create more Simulacrum to craft stuff for us.

Once I start my next class (it's a mere one-credit Personal Health and Fitness course; easy-mode!) I'll try to draw up an actual detailed, specific sequence of events to attain Tiny Godhood...unless someone wants to volunteer! :)

And if you rushed it with an additional +5 to the DC you would double how much gold value you can produce during the day.

Put these two tactics together and you'd have Timmy ready in about 4-ish months.

Does the "rushing" rule apply to magical item creation? Because Timmy is effectively a magic item.

Certainly.

Blanket summoning prohibition:

Magic, Conjuration (Summoning) wrote:

A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

Others:

Summon Monster wrote:

A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them. Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).

Summon Nature's Ally and other "Summon X" spells contain the same language.

Great, thank you!

Defining "expensive" would be prudent, but for now I'll take it to mean anything with a material component costing 1 gp or more.

Solars are viable.

But it then goes on to say:

"In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD does not exceed your caster level."

Which a 20HD Solar does. So, you can call it, but can't make it do anything!?

Second: "It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)."

Not half their SLAs, but half their HD and appropriate etc.

The word "appropriate" is hotly debated, but, in game terms, "appropriate" has always meant "those things based on HD" which, in PF is thoroughly distinguished from CL for SLAs.

If you want to argue that a 5HD Efreeti with CL 5 is "inappropriate" to be able to cast wish, but you're argument is weak because it's not strong enough to "cast" wish in the first place - it's already 7CL short of being "able" to "appropriately" cast wish, hence any argument on simulacra boil down to, "I don't like it" as opposed to, "supported in any reasonable conclusion by RAW." (Note: GMs can and should be free to rule whichever way in their home games, and not permitting this trick is certainly "reasonable" in any home game; however what I am talking about is reasonable readings of...

I was likewise unable to find any reference stating that Spell-like abilities are keyed to a specific Hit Die of the creature. Ergo, even a 1HD Efreeti should be able to cast Wish.

Great points, and thank you for the clarification.

Summoned creatures cannot use spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components, use teleportation spells, or use summoning spells.

Can you cite this ruling please? I'm unable to find it.

I just realized that this thread has been operating under a false pretense. What we are building isn't using rules from the Core Rulebook. The rule for crafting a Homunculus is from Bestiary 1, which I will accept as being core. But the rules for adding Hit Dice to constructs comes from Ultimate Magic. Otherwise we'd have to use the advancement rules from Bestiary (pgs 295-296) which are WAY different. And they require lots of GM decision making during advancement.

So to keep what we have but stick with theme I propose the following books be considered "Core" for this exercise:

Core Rulebook
Bestiary
Game Master Guide
Advanced Players Guide
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Equipment

This opens us up to lots more feats, weapons, items and effects without adding every splat book in existence.

It is widely accepted that the Phb, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide are the three Core rulebooks of D&D. Pathfinder being an equivalent, the Bestiary and Game Mastery Guide are considered Core as well (in my experience at least). You can't really play the game without them. Every book in addition to these three, are supplemental rules.

The rules for adding Hit Dice are referenced in the Homunculus description, so the Ultimate Magic guidelines are trumped by the specific ruling.

...good stuff...

Ok, I understand what your thought process is now and I absolutely love it. The only question I have remaining, is: Can the Simulacrum use the Wish spell-like ability (to then create simulacrum)?

"It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)"

So it only has half of the spell-like abilities of the Efreeti. Which ones does it lose? Perhaps erring on the side of "the most powerful or highest-level abilities are lost first" would be prudent?

Also, the CL on the Candle of Invocation is only 17, so it's can't summon a Solar, correct?

7heprofessor wrote:

So, as long as we select one of these languages for Mr. Wizard, we can ask the Lantern Archon to make us 5 ever-burning torches while he's around (5 round duration). Each torch sells for 90 gp, and we summon 2/day for a total of 900 gp per day; or 328,500 gp per year.

P 210 of Core states, "When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it had cast expire."

This kiboshes the lantern archon continual flame mill, IIRC.

Hmm, it uses the term "expire" which would imply the duration runs out. Continual Flame has a Permanent duration. Thoughts?

Seems a bit of a stretch so I'm not hell-bent on defending it, but I'd like a second opinion.

Last I read, you have Brew Potion and Scribe Scroll as feats for Timmy. Neither can use Master Craftsman for CL, so how does he get CL?

More fun: Have Timmy make a Homunculus or two for himself.

Another feat for free money: False Focus. You get up to 100 gp in free material components for use by any spell.

/cevah

Correct, Timmy only qualifies for Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well as Craft Wondrous Item.

Going outside of Core allows us to add spell-like abilities to Timmy which would net him a CL to select the other item creation feats as well. His ridiculous Spellcraft check would also allow him to ignore all prerequisite spells and increase the crafting time significantly.

Besides, the AoOs problems are solved by having high Acrobatics. You can easily have +100 or more, enough to avoid any AoO

Good call!

I've found another money-making venture that appears to be quite lucrative:

A 5th level Wizard (the lowest level possible to start crafting Timmy) can cast Summon Monster III at least twice a day to summon Lantern Archons. These creatures can cast Continual Flame at-will as a spell-like ability (this removes the material components, among other things) as well as speak Celestial, Draconic, and Infernal.

So, as long as we select one of these languages for Mr. Wizard, we can ask the Lantern Archon to make us 5 ever-burning torches while he's around (5 round duration). Each torch sells for 90 gp, and we summon 2/day for a total of 900 gp per day; or 328,500 gp per year.

Selling 3600 torches a year is pretty decent, but would eventually saturate the market. So, use a few of these gp to purchase a scroll or three of Plane Shift (as well as a few ranks in Knowledge The Planes and maxed out Spellcraft) and take your ever-burning torch business around the galaxy.

The average Elf lifespan is ~700 years so that would amount to 229,950,000 gp pre-immortality; or 114,900 Hit Dice for Timmy (rounded down to account for food, scrolls of plane shift, and hookers).

Wizard 20.

Int goes to spells. Spells go to everything.

Candle of Invocation costs 4,800 to craft, meaning you can gate in your efreeti. Not sure how you convince for infinite money though.

EDIT: As well, even with nigh-limitless funds, it still takes you 1 day per 1,000 gp, meaning it takes you nigh-infinite time to construct Timmy.

Correct, which is why immortality is essential.

@Ishpumalibu

Yes, that would work for removing the costly component. If we use one of the Undead methods of immortality listed above, we are even immune to the ability damage Blood Money inflicts, making it effectively free.

I don't think it's core but it seems masterwork transformation spell could generate cash.

It requires material components equal to the cost of creating a masterwork item. All it saves is time.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

@tacticslion: I'll respond when I'm done with class tonight.

This whole thread makes me think of a tiny society of gods created by one caster dumb enough to make one of these things able to make more of these things. It snowballs until you have a whole city of 200 HD Homonculi who really rule the world and let the puny Dragons and Humanoids and Undead think they are really in charge.

That's actually the premise similar to that of my current Warforged Artificer character. Eventually, he will become aware of how incredibly inefficient mortals are and begin crafting a construct nation in secret. It's gonna be awesome.

@Jon Fugi
The current idea is now to have infinite of both. Any ideas on how to facilitate this?

Great work so far everyone. Timmy has come along quite nicely.

Now I'd like to take it to the next level: game-shattering.

It would seem that there are few weaknesses as-is, but I would like shore-up those weaknesses and add in more abilities to create a truly unbeatable creature. The only guaranteed method I can see would be to add more HD for more ability score increases and more feats

My goal is to generate nigh-infinite wealth which will in turn equal nigh-infinite Hit Dice. There are several methods to accomplish this:

Time can be circumvented by one of three

Supply and Demand can be circumvented by using

If any one of these options are agreed to have the potential to create nigh-infinite wealth, than we have nigh-infinite money to spend on the creation of our Tiny God Timmy. That means, nigh-infinite HD which translates to nigh-infinite:

Ability Scores (1 per 4 Hit Dice)
Attack Bonus (1 per Hit Die)
Hit Points (5.5 per Hit Die)
Saving Throws (1 per 3 Hit Dice)
Armor Class (1 per 2 Dex increases, 1 per Improved Natural Armor feat)
Initiative (1 per 2 Dex increases)
Skill Points (2+Int per Hit Die)
CMB (1 per Hit Die)
CMD (1 per Hit Die)
Feats (1 per 2 Hit Dice)
Speed (5 ft. per Fleet feat)
Poison DC (1 per 2 Hit Dice)

If non-Core options are allowed, Timmy can gain:

Spell-like abilities of all Potion-qualifying spells (remember Summoner list here)
All of the Construct Modifications and/or Animated Object special abilities
A nigh-infinite damage Breath Weapon

Can anyone think of the lowest level one can attain nigh-infinite wealth? That will directly dictate at what level we can break the world.

chaoseffect wrote:

Make the tiny god a familiar? No. Have him take Eldritch Heritage: Arcane and then Improved Familiar and he can have his own Homunculus familiar with half his HP and his full BAB. Brutal.

Perhaps also Leadership? His cohort will have to be 2 HD less then him, but, ha. A cohort could also can have class levels.

Same issue as Eldritch Heritage: it requires Character Level 7. Timmy only has racial Hit Dice which don't necessarily count.

Great idea though.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs wrote:

Hit Dice Modification: Hit Dice represent the overall strength and power of a construct. They affect a number of subsequent abilities, including hit points, saving throws, and base attacks. Determine the effects of a Hit Dice modification using the rules for adding creature Hit Dice on pages 290–291 of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary. Because a construct’s size is limited, a Hit Dice modification cannot increase its size. Therefore Hit Dice modification can never increase the base construct’s Hit Dice beyond 50% of its total HD. Some constructs have a defined cost for increasing Hit Dice. To calculate the cost per Hit Die of other constructs, divide the construct’s construction cost by its existing Hit Dice.

I knew someone would point to this eventually, so I created this thread in anticipation. That was part of the reason I was pushing for a Core-only build as this rule is cited in an optional splatbook.

Mathwei ap Niall does a nice job of summarizing the linked threads findings, including the ever important specific vs general. Thanks for that!

As for Evolutions gained via Evolved Familiar, is there a way to designate Timmy as our Familiar? I didn't see Homunculus on the list of available options.

...awesome combat patrol idea

This is really good. But it does require a heavy focus on Dex to benefit from Combat Reflexes.

If you could give it some form of regeneration, or a way to repair itself, then it becomes pretty self-sufficient as a creature.

Here is the section on Repairing Constructs:

So, if we give him the Craft Construct feat and ranks in Craft (leatherworking), he can spend 22,100 gp and 23 days to heal himself for 221d6. Not exactly optimal, but it's there.

A better means would be an activated item of Make Whole or Rapid Repair. Just make sure his UMD is high enough to activate anything ever, and you're good to go.

Poison (Ex): Bite—injury; save Fort DC 13; frequency 1/minute for 60 minutes; effectsleep for 1 minute; cure 1 save. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.

The DC of Timmy's poison is 10+1/2 Hit dice+con modifier+2 racial, or DC122. As was mentioned above, he can fill up his quiver with this poison, effectively coating all of his arrows with this Sleep poison. Anything not immune to Sleep or Poison is done.

AR1(Dual Scimitars, 7 attacks):

1315
AR2(4 Scimitar+3 Shield, 7 attacks):
1218
AR3(3 Scimitar+ 4Shield, 7 attacks):
1193
AR4(Bow, 6 attacks)
927

Do these figures take his bite attack into account? A Power-Attack modified bite does a minimum 133 damage (as noted in your stat block)

Any further increase to offense are looking miniscule, and I'll focus on building utility like Initiative or AC (Saving throws are high enough that he only fails the highest listed DC [that I know of] on a 1).

Saving throws are high enough as it is, but you have Lightning Reflexes listed as a feat. That can be swapped out for Improved Natural Armor. Also consider dropping the Crafting Feats (I don't know if he qualifies, where is the Caster Level coming from?) for more Improved Natural Armor if AC is a concern. Obviously if in melee combat, Combat Expertise makes AC a non-issue.

Overall, FANTASTIC work Vritra! With work, accelerated summer courses, my daughter, and gf, time is on a premium for me. I wish I had more time to invest in this idea right now, but you have done an amazing job leading the charge on this. Kudos.

7heprofessor wrote:

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

And with the feats I laid out he shoots up to 7 attacks a round, every round (8 if he invests in a speed/haste option) or even more if he opens up to using some non-core abilities (Ricochet shot, I'm looking at you.

4 from BAB, 1 from Rapid Shot, 1 from Manyshot

Where's the 7th coming from?

Everyone always gets a standard attack. That's why characters with 0 bab can still attack.

BaB lets you attack up to 4 more times on top of that.

Negative. As was posted above:

"Scaling Powers: Hit dice, base attack bonuses, and saving throws continue to increase at the same rate beyond 20th level, as appropriate for the class in question. Note that no character can have more than 4 attacks based on its base attack bonus."

So I finish calculating base damage, and with a +1 adaptive Longbow his minimum damage for archery is 810 damage, assuming all attacks hit with Deadly Aim.

TWF min damage is 1206 without upgrades, with a 15-20 crit range.

(Now, is there a way to get Pounce?)

Remember that the TWF route is still only 7 attacks (there were 8 listed on the Doc at the time of this post)

As for Pounce, the following are all I know of:

Tiger Style
Beast Totem Barbarian
Mobile Fighter archetype
Dimensional Dervish feats
Kitsune with Vulpine pounce
Battle Oracle - Surprise Charge Revelation
Quadraped Eidolon - pounce evolution
Mounted combat lets you move your mount and then take your actions...
Polymorph Any Object into something with Pounce?

Aren't there rules dictating what percentage of your WBL can be spent on one specific item?

Even if it's 25% of WBL, that's still insane. And dumb. And it's still a DC 12 to craft too. Wacky. Also this little guy is worth more than entire kingdoms net worth.

Any rules about how one spends their money are house rules as far as I know.

But I do agree that having this be possible is pretty ridiculous. Clearly not intended to go this far, but fun that you can.

Granted, Interzone's comment is quite relevant. One would likely spend the majority of their wealth just surviving long enough to become 20th level (though, as a Wizard likely less so). Selling off your uber magic staff so you can have a badass little friend might be worth it though...

If there is no cap on iteratives, and +439 BAB is 73 attacks Rapid Shot makes that 74.

Penalties to hit from Deadly aim (-109) and Rapid Shot (-2) = -111

So base to-hit is +328 before dex and other feats.

Deadly Aim adds +2 damage per 4 BAB or 219 damage per arrow (right?).

Assuming all attacks hit (a big assumption here) that's 185 damage from 74 instances of 1d4 damage arrows with an additional 16,206 damage from Deadly Aim or 16,391 damage in one round!

The probability of scoring at least one critical hit is very high, and that adds a base 438 points of damage.

Tell me I screwed this up please, because this seems a little off...

You won't have any other money for equipment, so keep that in mind, but I'm guessing anything that doesn't have immunity to poison or sleep effects is already dead or dying to this thing.

Pretty much I'd say the best option is TWF with a heavy focus on STR, and using some Intimidate feats for kicks.

Do you really need any equipment? I mean, at this point, you're a 20th level Wizard so you can just buff yourself to the nines, and sit back Telepathically communicating your desires for your Mud God to carry out!

Yeah, with that amount of BaB you get 73 attacks (I think), and even if the last 3(ish) miss, you still get a (fairly) guaranteed 70d(x)-7 damage before any upgrades.

Is there anything in the rules that limit your number of iterative attacks to four? Or does it continue past +20 BAB?

The only thing he'd have to prepare for is undead and constructs.

Great suggestions on the archery feats. Any thoughts on how this would deal with Undead, Constricts, and possibly some Oozes?

Browsing through the Core rulebook, I stumbled upon Craft Construct again. I was then reminded of the Homunculus that one of my Wizard PCs created many years ago and decided to look at the Pathfinder version. I was pleased to see it was much the same, including the purchase of additional Hit Dice for 2,000gp each. I'm bored, let's break this.

A 20th level character gets 880,000 gp. Let's spend it all on the Homunculus, just to see how ridiculous we can make it:

Requirements:
Craft Construct Feat (Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, CL 5)
CL 7th
Arcane Eye, Mirror Image, Mending
Craft (leather) DC 12

Easy enough. Initial gold investment:

50 gp for body
200 gp for Alchemist lab
1000 gp for the lab furnishings
2050 standard cost

5350 gp

= 874,650/2000 = +437 hit dice

So, our little buddy has 439 total hit dice. That gives him:

+109 ability score points
(Base: Str 8, Dex 15, Con - , Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7)
2414 HP
BAB +439 (is there a cap in PF?)
Base Saving Throws 146 + modifications
His Poison attack: Fortitude DC 229 or sleep for 1 minute
And 219 feats

Here are the Core Feats he could qualify for:

Spend them all on Fleet and you have a speed of 1115!

In the end, it's definitely not worth blowing all of your cash on this little mud god, but it's pretty funny that you can do this with just the Core book.

Anyone have any cool ideas for this little guy?

All these builds, yet no one mentions Scryer 1/[Martial Class Here] 1/EK 10/Hellknight Signifier 8...

Though, admittedly, that one places some irksome restrictions, but it's still a nice package.

Edit:

Quote:

Assuming Aasimar, because Scrying is a lame school

I would struggle to disagree with this more - Acting in a surprise round is extremely useful for a gish.

I tried posting this yesterday, but it appears to have failed to post. Here is attempt #2:

Race: Samsaran

(Or any race with a spell-like ability over 2nd lvl and you don't have to be a Scryer Wizard)

Freebooter/Trapper Ranger 1/Scryer Wizard 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Hell Knight Signifier 8

Level Class BAB CL for spell access
1 Ranger 1 1 0
2 Wizard 1 1 1
3 EK 1 2 1
4 EK 2 3 2
5 EK 3 4 3
6 HKE 1 4 4
7 HKE 2 5 5
8 HKE 3 6 6
9 EK 4 7 7
10 EK 5 8 8
11 EK 6 9 9
12 EK 7 10 10
13 EK 8 11 11
14 EK 9 12 12
15 EK 10 13 13
16 HKE 4 14 14
17 HKE 5 14 15
18 HKE 6 15 16
19 HKE 7 16 17
20 HKE 8 17 18

Feats:
1. Weapon Focus: Nodachi
1. Track (ranger)
2. Scribe Scroll (wizard)
3. Arcane Armor Training (Eldritch Knight)
3. Power Attack
5. Still Spell
7. Arcane Armor Mastery (Hellknight Enforcer)
7. Dimensional Agility
9. Dimensional Assault
10. Weapon Specialization (E.K.)
11. Dimensional Dervish
13. Quicken Spell
15. Improved Critical (E.K.)
15. Critical Focus
17. Blinding Critical
19. Dazing Assault

Traits:

Magical Knack (wizard): +2 Caster level max of HD
Lessons of Chaldira: Reroll save 1/day (because its awesome, no real bearing on the build)

The only defensive measure an 18th level Conjurer had was flippin' Displacement...and that happened to come from a scroll!? W...T...F?

No Greater Planar Ally to stand in the BBEG's way?

No Invisibility/Etherealness?

No Mirror Image? (oh yeah, Illusion is useless...:/)

No Emergency Force Sphere?

No god-damned Contingency!?

Forgive me, but I am just blown away by the lack of preparation for this BBEG fight. I'm not sure how s/he made it to 18th level.

good stuff

Indeed there are many tactics a "good" DM could (and should!) use to make encounters with Dragons more challenging and more memorable. Problem is, none of these tactics are in the stat block for the beasts, so that comes down to how clever the DM actually is.

Threads like these are more centered around the fun of the mathematical challenge of crunching enough numbers to overcome the creature as-written. There is no perfect scenario just as there is no perfect character for defeating creatures in Pathfinder/D&D. But sure is fun to talk about it! This thread has already enlightened me to a few nuances I was previously unaware of! (Jingasa!? awesome!)

Either way...just my 2 cp

stuart haffenden wrote:

Narrow Frame - take a large pet and never worry about it fitting into dungeons again.

Don't waste a Feat on Light AP, a mithral chain shirt +5 along with its regular natural armour plus all the usual buffs will net an AC in the 40's which is enough. I'd rather take Iron Will - it'll save the pet more often than the AC ever will.

mithral chain shirt is +4 not +5

/cevah

I believe that poster meant a Mithril Chain Shirt with a +5 enhancement bonus from magic...

lifeless wrote:

ok lets say my last session didn't go so well and I find my self on the 1st layer of hell i'm a 14th lvl paladin and i'm naked....any help would be great><>

Assuming you have your holy symbol, or a spare stashed on your mount (possibly with other gear) that you could summon. Try:

1.) Find a Chaotic or evil creature not from that plane (devils from other levels will work).

2.) Intimidate/coerce it into your plan (preferably a small one)

3.) cast Paladin's sacrifice on the creature getting it to intentionally fail it's save.

4.) cast Dispel evil/chaos on the creature again intentionally failing save to which the effect gets transferred to you and you get driven back to your home plane.

Well played sir!

Seriously, this is probably the best option, only I'd utilize Diplomacy rather than Intimidate since you're probably way better at it.

Alternatively, you may be able to work with your DM on getting a new Bonded Mount...one that might be able to travel to other planes.

1. Ranger 1
2. Wizard 1
3. Eldritch Knight 1
4. EK 2
5. EK 3
6. Hell Knight Enforcer 1
7. HKE 2
8. HKE 3
9. EK 4
10. EK 5
11. EK 6
12. EK 7
13. EK 8
14. EK 9
15. EK 10
16. HKE 4
17. HKE 5
18. HKE 6
19. HKE 7
20. HKE 8

This was my initial suggested build. I am still not 100% on it though, as getting the Eldritch Knight bonus combat feats at specific levels may be necessary. Thoughts?

Just bring a calculator if it's really that hard. Honestly, this is a good opportunity for him/her to learn basic arithmetic.

Core-only rules gives us:

Fighter 2/Wizard 8/Eldritch Knight 10. That's +16 BAB, 17 CL

Going outside of core a bit, we can add the Magical Knack Trait for +2 Caster Level. Simple and effective.

Going outside of Core even further, we can do just a little better:

This ruling:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qow

lets us qualify for Eldritch Knight early using a few different sources; specifically, anything that grants a spell-like ability that duplicates a spell of level 3 or higher. We also need martial weapon proficiency first though and there are a few ways to do that. Here is my proposed build:

LN Heart of the Wilderness Human
Traits: Magical Knack (wizard), Reactionary

Freebooter/Trapper Ranger 1/Scryer Wizard 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Hell Knight Enforcer 8

That's +17 BAB, 18 CL (20 with the trait)

Stats: STR>INT>CON>DEX>WIS>CHA

Heart of the Wilderness is a good sub for the +1 skill point as our Int is high so we'll get plenty and it helps us not die when we're unconscious.

Scryer Wizard gives us clairaudience/clairvoyance 3+int mod times a day and my favorite ability in the game: Forewarned.

Freebooter lets us grant ourselves and our allies +1 to hit and damage against one foe as a move action unlimited times/day.

Trapper gives us Disable Device and Trapfinding so we can also fill that role if we want to.

Eldritch Knight nets us a few combat feats (including Fighter-only ones) and Spell Critical.

Hell Knight Enforcer has a bunch of mediocre things, but the one that stands out the most are: Arcane Armor Expert and Signifer Armor Training. This lets us reduce our ASF by 20% as an immediate/swift action (with a 10% reduction all the time). Definitely get your hands on some Mithral ASAP.

I'm having the most trouble with the feats though. Here are my ideas:

Feats:
1. Weapon Focus: Greatsword (or Nodachi)
1. Track (ranger bonus)
1. Power Attack (human bonus)
2. Scribe Scroll (wiz bonus)
3. Arcane Armor Training (EK bonus)
3. Still Spell
5. Furious Focus
7. Spell Focus: X
7. Arcane Armor Mastery (HKE bonus)
9. Improved Critical: Greatsword
11. Spell Penetration
11. Weapon Specialization: Greatsword (EK bonus)
13. Persistent Spell
15. Quicken Spell
15. Dazing Assault (EK bonus)
17. Spell Perfection: X
19. Greater Spell Focus: X

I'm definitely taking suggestions on these. I may be stretching this build too thin, but I like the idea of some decent melee damage options, different options for dealing with ASF, and a hard-to-resist save-or-suck spell as a last resort (using Spell Perfection to add Persistent Spell to a spell in my Spell Focus school).

The HUGE OMG-THIS-SERIOUSLY-SUCKS DOWNSIDE:

You have to buy all of your spells after first level Wizard. I hope your DM is generous!

Any suggestions for feat choices? Comments/thoughts?

Wow. Just, wow. I had no idea this was even an issue. Like, 100% seriously never would have imagined people would even consider not letting the PCs reclaim the dead character's items. Obvious exceptions notwithstanding:

1. There is a party member who believes strongly that one should be buried with their possessions (like the Egyptians).

2. The PC died by lava, cliff-fall, or other "can't get the body" scenarios.

Other than those, I can't imagine why someone would ban their players from taking the items laying on the ground right there.

Deck of Many things? Family member scry-n-dies? Ghost appears to reclaim items? Rocks fall, everyone dies? Are you kidding me!? That is just crazy talk.

Sure, the PCs have some (potentially) nice gear that might put them above the Wealth-by-level guideline. It's just a guideline anyway and one that is so easily circumvented it's not even an issue. Any DM worth their salt can adjust encounters accordingly and none will be the wiser.

Fiat+dickery sounds about right! :)

By the rules? No. Can a DM just hand-waive it? Absolutely.

As written, the Antipaladin is simply a Paladin variant. There can be any number of variants, including a LE one. 3.5 D&D had LE, CE, LG, and CG Paladins.

Just ask your DM, or if you are the DM, just hand-waive what you don't like. It's one of the best parts about being DM!

Either way...just my 2 cp

I've tried it several ways over the years, most of which have already been listed. I've decided upon one of three methods based on the type of game I'm running:

1) The One-Shot:
In these scenarios it's all about insanity and fun so I say screw the language barrier and everyone understands everything.

2) The Con-game:
When running a standardized format for a (potentially) wide variety of players, I stick with asking if one player speaks the language in question and assume they translate.

3) The campaign:
I have learned over the years that my players love to be crafty, selfish bastards at times! Obviously it's character-dependent, but to ensure the smallest amount of backlash, I have taken to mashing makeshift languages together based on the NPC and speak that aloud for everyone. I then write dialog on note cards and pass it to the players whose PC speaks the language.

Either way...just my 2cp

What are some of the best ways I can acquire more Attack Rating?

I know I can take Weapon Focus, currently using Weapon Finesse with the high Dex I have, also going for the route of Tripping my opponent to gain that beautiful +4(well -4 to their AC vs Melee), gaining higher ground, and/or flanking for full combat advantage, true striking and Stunning Fist(or without TS).

Is there anything else I can do that will help in the longrun?

If there is anything else you need to know about my Monk let me know and I'll cooperate!

Allies within reach of your enemy can add +2 to your attack roll with Aid Another. You could get a bunch of hirelings to come help you out.

The Pale Green Prism ioun stone nets you a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls.

The Prayer Spell gets you a +1 Luck bonus on attack rolls.

Allies of the owner of a lord's banner of victory gain a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for as long as they can see the banner.

The Ring of Terrible costs can add up to a +5 to hit once before you have to spend a standard action to power it up again.

The craziest thing I've actually done in a one-shot and not just theorized about was a Kitsune Sorcerer:

Sorcerer 20 Fey Bloodline
All favored class bonuses into increasing DCs of Enchantment spells

Charisma: 18 base+2 racial+2 age+5 inherent+5 levels+6 enhancement+2 succubus Profane Gift = 40 (+15)

Feats:
1) Spell Focus: Enchantment
3) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
5) Heighten Spell
7) Bloodline Feat: Skill Focus: Knowledge Nature
7) Eldritch Heritage: Arcane
9) Spell Focus: Necromancy
11) Improved Eldritch Heritage: Arcane (New Arcana)
13) Bloodline Feat: Quicken Spell
13) Persistent Spell
15) Threnodic Spell
17) Greater Eldritch Heritage: Arcane (Spell power enhancement)
19) Bloodline Feat: Improved Initiative
19) Undead Master

Dominate Monster spell save DC:
10 base
+5 Kitsune favored class
+2 Fey bloodline (compulsion only)
+2 Gr. Spell Focus
+2 Arcane bloodline
+1 Kitsune racial bonus
+15 Charisma
+9 spell level
= 46

she also used Heightened-Threnodic Mass Suggestions combined with Undead Master-fueled Animate Dead and Command Undead spells to have hoards of undead at her disposal.

Maxed out UMD allowed for near-perfect activation of a Wand of Arcane Concordance so I maxed out at DC47 Dominate Monster with a free Silent Spell. Not too shabby.

I would never play it 1-20 though.

I've scoured the web for a thread dedicated to this, but have been unable to find one so I thought I'd start my own. My hopes are that people will share their interesting combat experiences that extend beyond, "I hit the dude with my sword and he died.". Don't get me wrong, sometimes that can be epic and awesome too, but I'm looking more for really unique, extraordinary experiences that were fun and flavorful. Ya know, like stuff out of movies (reflecting the Medusa's gaze with a shield, dropping a chandelier on a group of goblins, etc)
As a DM, I reward my players' out-of-the-box thinking and unconventional approach to combat and I find that as time goes on as a player, I do more of it as well. Here's a recent example:

The burly fighter grappled the half-ogre shaman and held him long enough for the Druid to cast his "make a 10ft deep hole" spell. Then the Cleric created enough water to fill the hole and as the fighter plunged the giant into the pit, the magus attacked with his Shocking Grasp-channeled-sword attack to fry the beast and send him to his watery grave!

What kind of awesome things have you and your players done?

(links to other threads of this ilk welcome)