Lost Omens Special Recap

I love puffy little Yivali and would do anything for her.

I love puffy little Yivali and would do anything for her.

Would kill and/or die for her

Love that Tian Xia isn't just China, Japan and Korea. South and Southeast Asian culture is so rich and beautiful, and often gets overlooked in fantasy settings.

Is it possible we might see Reiko and Hayato in one or both of these books, either as NPCs or Iconics for specific archetypes? I've been crossing my fingers!

I really hope that that cover is implying that Arazni is going to help Yivali complete here graduate thesis, my gosh.

Was Yivali's appearance based on a secretary bird? Because if so, I love the pun

All three of these books have me bouncing in my seat - I can’t wait!

All three of these books have me bouncing in my seat - I can’t wait!

Me too! *boingboingboingboingboing*

Not sure if Arazni ascending to the core 20 means that they're obviously killing off Urgathoa or if that is such an obvious connection that they wouldn't have told us Arazni was ascending for fear of making it too easy to figure out...

Is divine mysteries a remaster of gods and magic or more of an entirely new book?

And just as exciting is the announcement of a leshy miniatures set!

Is divine mysteries a remaster of gods and magic or more of an entirely new book?

From what little I know, I want to say it's both? What, really, in Gods & Magic actually needs remastering beyond reprinting a handful of deity statblocks to remove alignment and add sanctification? Certainly, Divine Mysteries doesn't likely need to reprint the G&M lore, excepting whatever might change from the godswar coming up, so I'd expect to see a lot of new content in addition to just updating G&M to the style that 2e books have taken since Book of the Dead with there being a narrator persona

Kent Hamiltons’s concept art is fantastic, and made even moreso by the accompanying design notes. Would be great to see these in the final book, or if not, in another publication. Just that page alone creates about a billion billion seeds for intrigue, adventure and whatever the hell else you want to do in Wanshou.

I pretty much need Kent working 28 hours a minute creating these for every peoples on Golarion.

"The Tian Xia World Guide also includes new rituals. One such ritual, the trial of the unseeing blade master, was shown off during the stream. To fulfill the ritual, you must defeat 20 enemies while blindfolded, which then grants you the Blind-Fight feat."

Okay, from a charOp perspective, the fact that there are now non-leveling ways to acquire feats, however limited, is a big deal.

No comments one way or the other on Urgathoa, but this at least does appear to be some evidence suggesting that Pharasma isn't the one who's going to die.

We now know that the god who dies is not Pharasma. If it were, the psychpomp would not be able to present the book to her as a gift.

I take it retconning a civilization into the Valashmai is part of the same push to de-pulp-ify we saw with Mwangi Expanse?

I like it, I'm just curious.

Having practiced origami for half a century, I'm super excited for the introduction of paper familiars!

And is Sujana Mahad a member of a crocodilian subtype of Iruxi or does he belong to an entirely new ancestry? Either way, he looks awesome!

FISH GUN!

Making a witch from Wanshou is on my radar.....now how do I make my cephalopodal-familiar not silly?

I love Wanshou and I for one support our new kraken overlord.

Yes!

Making a witch from Wanshou is on my radar.....now how do I make my cephalopodal-familiar not silly?

I dunno, I think you could lean into the silly and still have it be creepy! As Bogleech (aka Jonathan Wojcik) so eloquently put it recently:

This is one of those things where I get anxious and upset that it exists because I can't protect it from disappointment. And yet I also eat octopus, and octopus would eat me if it could. This is a hyper evolved killing machine. Everything that makes it adorable is, like a cat, part of an adaptation for pure murder efficiency. It even has a venomous bite. It's not just the blue ring octopus that has venom, they all do, the blue ring just has the most potent. This is a primordial death monster and it's so precious I want to find whoever in the world cares about it the least and beat them up for it.

Not sure if Arazni ascending to the core 20 means that they're obviously killing off Urgathoa or if that is such an obvious connection that they wouldn't have told us Arazni was ascending for fear of making it too easy to figure out...

I believe they’ve said Arazni is not “replacing” the god who dies.

(Also, Arazni now look less and less undead, and it was pointed out in the stream, so it's not a random thing.)

Having practiced origami for half a century, I'm super excited for the introduction of paper familiars!

And is Sujana Mahad a member of a crocodilian subtype of Iruxi or does he belong to an entirely new ancestry? Either way, he looks awesome!

I think they said on stream he was a Iruxi that just had a bit more of a crocodilian look.

Gisher wrote:

Having practiced origami for half a century, I'm super excited for the introduction of paper familiars!

And is Sujana Mahad a member of a crocodilian subtype of Iruxi or does he belong to an entirely new ancestry? Either way, he looks awesome!

I think they said on stream he was a Iruxi that just had a bit more of a crocodilian look.

Oh, very cool! Hopefully that will be a new player option.

Edit: You were right. They did say that in the stream. (I hadn't noticed that there was a video link to it.) With that crown he reminds me of the Egyptian deity Sobek. And a little bit of Alligator Loki. ;)

Elfteiroh wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Having practiced origami for half a century, I'm super excited for the introduction of paper familiars!

And is Sujana Mahad a member of a crocodilian subtype of Iruxi or does he belong to an entirely new ancestry? Either way, he looks awesome!

I think they said on stream he was a Iruxi that just had a bit more of a crocodilian look.

Oh, very cool! Hopefully that will be a new player option.

Edit: You were right. They did say that in the stream. (I hadn't noticed that there was a video link to it.) With that crown he reminds me of the Egyptian deity Sobek. And a little bit of Alligator Loki. ;)

I believe these have been called Bakuwa Iruxi, based on a Filipino myth.

This is wonderful!

Gisher wrote:

Elfteiroh wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Having practiced origami for half a century, I'm super excited for the introduction of paper familiars!

And is Sujana Mahad a member of a crocodilian subtype of Iruxi or does he belong to an entirely new ancestry? Either way, he looks awesome!

I think they said on stream he was a Iruxi that just had a bit more of a crocodilian look.

Oh, very cool! Hopefully that will be a new player option.

Edit: You were right. They did say that in the stream. (I hadn't noticed that there was a video link to it.) With that crown he reminds me of the Egyptian deity Sobek. And a little bit of Alligator Loki. ;)

I believe these have been called Bakuwa Iruxi, based on a Filipino myth.

Interesting. So more like a Philippine crocodile than a Nile crocodile.

Interesting. So more like a Philippine crocodile than a Nile crocodile.

As one might imagine for Pathfinder's Asia-equivalent setting :p

Tsukumogami! So looking forward to playing one of those. Get three PCs to all be tsukumogami with one being a coat, another a hat, and the third a poppet body, and you could have a four-person team disguise themselves as some rando carrying a well-loved old puppet around with them.

Tsukumogami! So looking forward to playing one of those. Get three PCs to all be tsukumogami with one being a coat, another a hat, and the third a poppet body, and you could have a four-person team disguise themselves as some rando carrying a well-loved old puppet around with them.

Norgorber strikes again.

We now know that the god who dies is not Pharasma. If it were, the psychpomp would not be able to present the book to her as a gift.

Actually we do not. The authors have clarified that nothing can be inferred from this book about which Core 20 deity dies.

I am literally so hyped for all of this!

The tanuki ability makes me laugh, and the region of Wanshou has me so intrigued and terrified.

I'm also absolutely thrilled that Arazni is joining the Core 20. I'm not convinced that Urgathoa is biting the dust, but I'm stoked to see the ambiguity of Arazni gaining prominence.

Divine Mysteries you say? Does that mean we can anticipate three other similar books, named Arcane Mysteries, Occult Mysteries, and Primal Mysteries? Not sure if the four traditions (arcane, divine, occult, and primal) or the four essences (Matter, Mind, Spirit, and Life) still exist in Pathfinder Remaster though.

If the god who will die is indeed Urgathoa, then I honestly have no idea. Is she the least popular among the 20 core deities? I didn't particularly dislike her. I thought Erastil would die, because he seemed the least loved among the core deities, at least to me.

If Urgathoa truly dies and Arazni takes her place, would that make the undead on Golarion severely weakened? Yeah, I know Arazni is evil. But the two most powerful undead lords, Tar-Baphon and Geb (three, if Zutha is still alive. But I'm not sure if his death is officially confirmed by Paizo or not. Perhaps he or Krune will return someday, just like Xanderghul?) have valid reasons to be loathed by Arazni, right? So there will be no way she would side with them and thus the evil undead forces on Golarion would lose any divine favor they might have had before.

Divine Mysteries you say? Does that mean we can anticipate three other similar books, named Arcane Mysteries, Occult Mysteries, and Primal Mysteries?

Probably not, no. Paizo really hasn't been copy-pasting titles in the Lost Omens line.

Not sure if the four traditions (arcane, divine, occult, and primal) or the four essences (Matter, Mind, Spirit, and Life) still exist in Pathfinder Remaster though.

They do! The Witch preview mentions all four traditions, and has feats that are thematically linked to Material and Spirit essences.

If the god who will die is indeed Urgathoa, then I honestly have no idea. Is she the least popular among the 20 core deities? I didn't particularly dislike her. I thought Erastil would die, because he seemed the least loved among the core deities, at least to me.

You seem to be assuming that it's just a given that the least popular god is going to die, and that doesn't make much sense to me? Why kill off a god people don't care about? There isn't much impact there. Now, I don't expect it to be Urgathoa personally, but not because there are less popular gods than her.

Gisher wrote:

Interesting. So more like a Philippine crocodile than a Nile crocodile.

As one might imagine for Pathfinder's Asia-equivalent setting :p

That makes a lot more sense now that my brain isn't migraine-addled.

So after a bit of research, I'm guessing that they were inspired by the myth of the Buwaya — a crocodile (or crocodilian dragon) that wears a box on its back. It captures people who are in the water, puts them in its box, and takes them to its underwater cave to snack on later. (It reminds me a bit of Grendel's mother.)

I'm on the edge of my seat in anticipation for these books. The Wanshou art in particular is so atmospheric it almost makes me want to set it as my computer background. And while I'm a little upset we didn't get to see any of the remaining ancestries, what we did see in terms of character options is not bad. The tsukumogami heritage opens a lot of options and the familiar options came just in time to be used by the remastered witch.

baekho kinda looks like catboy michael jackson

Whoa -- major spoiler in this blog post . . . .

. . . And Lady Nanbyo looks like she just accidentally stabbed the palm of her right hand in several places. Never mind the realism aspect -- that just looks painful.

That makes a lot more sense now that my brain isn't migraine-addled.

So after a bit of research, I'm guessing that they were inspired by the myth of the Buwaya — a crocodile (or crocodilian dragon) that wears a box on its back. It captures people who are in the water, puts them in its box, and takes them to its underwater cave to snack on later. (It reminds me a bit of Grendel's mother.)

“Buwaya” just means crocodile in Tagalog. Bakunawa is just a mythical sea serpent/dragon that happens to crocodile-like, which is why it’s sometimes interchangeable. A Bakunawa is usually a buwaya, a buwaya is not a Bakunawa.

There’s also no one story. Every tribe (the larger language grouping) has different stories.

But stories of Bukanawa and buwaya abound throughout the Philippines, but may use different words since a lot of regional languages are retained. In my case, of my grandparents on both, only 1 is Tagalog. I think it’s buaya in Cebuano and…bukarot in Ilocano?

I grew up on some myths from my grandmother and one I remember is the story of Lam-Ang, an Ilocano mythical hero. Kinda like Hercules or Wu Kong. The art image shows him fighting a buwaya (crocodile) to save some farmers. Really lucky my grandmother saved those stories and shared it with us.

Though, I don’t really know much else. Most American-Filipinos are pretty disconnected from those kind of myths and stuff and most parents are more concerned about assimilating in than re-telling stories they’ve heard from the islands. And my experience is that city-folks look down on province folks who talk about dwendes and other “superstitious things” even though they’re afraid of going to the provinces and dealing with ghosts. Funny thing, a lot of Filipinos get Aswang and Manananggal mixed because of the Aswang film (something that annoyed my grandmother).

Edit: I also think the crown he’s wearing is in reference to those babaylan (tribal animist priests) divination drawings that puts a “crown” over the bakunawa’s head. But the character shown is in Valash Raj, but is likely from Minatan ancestry.

2nd edit: Something else that throws me off is the pronunciation of Minata. I know it’s a fictional word, but Filipino is a stress-based language. Meaning of words change depending on where you stress. For example Makati City. It’s pronounced Makāti City, but sometimes mistakenly pronounced as Makatī by visitors. Makāti means “low-tide” while Makatī means “itchy”. So visitors sometimes accidentally call it the “itchy city”. My mom made fun of me when I did that.

So shouldn’t it sound more like Mināta and not Minātā? (The ta at the end should sound shorter and not elongated. Also, the i in Minata should be a long ee).

Sorry if I’m being a language snob. It’s not often get to share Filipino stuff on a TTRPG forum. (Thanks Paizo! Much love!)

S. J. Digriz wrote:

We now know that the god who dies is not Pharasma. If it were, the psychpomp would not be able to present the book to her as a gift.

Actually we do not. The authors have clarified that nothing can be inferred from this book about which Core 20 deity dies.

Very true, but as a crackpot Sherlock wannabe, I have cleverly deduced through complete guessing and the ignoring of facts that the dead deity shall not be Arazni, Sarenrae, Pharasma, or Asmodeus. They are all present on the cover of the new book (three in stained glass, one as an official designated bird holder). I think I'm going to add Rovagug as a fifth 'not-gonna-die' deity as well, as I have just now decided that the purple and black rose looking thing below stained glass Sarenrae is Mr. Vagug himself.

We're on to you, Paizo. Your secrets are forfeit. Probably.

Beware, the Itchy City!

If Urgathoa truly dies and Arazni takes her place, would that make the undead on Golarion severely weakened?

Probably not, as noted in the Book of the Dead there are several deities who are of particular interest to the Undead: Charon, Kabiri, Zura, and ̶O̶r̶c̶u̶s̶ (Paizo won't use him, but you can.) The Undead, having no plans on dying and entering the river of souls, have a different use for religion than everybody else anyway.

It's sort of suggested throughout Pathfinder that domains predate deities- like the Beast domain existed as something separate from Curchanus and Lamashtu so that it could be transferred from the former to the latter.

Where the lack of Urgathoa, if that happens, would change things is that her cult really serves the: Hedonism-> Depravity-> Undeath pipeline in a a way that nobody else does. But Golarion has enough terrestrial advocates making the case for becoming undead on its own merits. You don't really need to trick people via "you well, after all those cannibalistic murder orgies, you might as well become a vampire" people will sign up for vampirism on their own.

If Urgathoa beefs it, then I have an excuse to use Zura even more…

Honestly killing off a core deity feels really lame to me and more like the gimmick of a comic book event than something I want to see in an RPG setting. It feels super limiting especially since Pathfinder's pantheon is one of its strong suits which draws me to the Lost Omens setting over many others.

It also feels kinda mean to players who've built characters worshiping that deity or otherwise tied to them; while home games won't be directly affected and a GM can say that it didn't happen in their game it still doesn't feel great to people invested in that god and their faith as a part of the setting. Plus I assume for organized play it'll really mess up those whose characters are based on that god.

I have a very hard time seeing how this could open up more opportunities for stories, characters, and adventures than it closes.

Gisher wrote:

That makes a lot more sense now that my brain isn't migraine-addled.

So after a bit of research, I'm guessing that they were inspired by the myth of the Buwaya — a crocodile (or crocodilian dragon) that wears a box on its back. It captures people who are in the water, puts them in its box, and takes them to its underwater cave to snack on later. (It reminds me a bit of Grendel's mother.)

“Buwaya” just means crocodile in Tagalog. Bakunawa is just a mythical sea serpent/dragon that happens to crocodile-like, which is why it’s sometimes interchangeable. A Bakunawa is usually a buwaya, a buwaya is not a Bakunawa.

There’s also no one story. Every tribe (the larger language grouping) has different stories.

But stories of Bukanawa and buwaya abound throughout the Philippines, but may use different words since a lot of regional languages are retained. In my case, of my grandparents on both, only 1 is Tagalog. I think it’s buaya in Cebuano and…bukarot in Ilocano?

I grew up on some myths from my grandmother and one I remember is the story of Lam-Ang, an Ilocano mythical hero. Kinda like Hercules or Wu Kong. The art image shows him fighting a buwaya (crocodile) to save some farmers. Really lucky my grandmother saved those stories and shared it with us.

Though, I don’t really know much else. Most American-Filipinos are pretty disconnected from those kind of myths and stuff and most parents are more concerned about assimilating in than re-telling stories they’ve heard from the islands. And my experience is that city-folks look down on province folks who talk about dwendes and other “superstitious things” even though they’re afraid of going to the provinces and dealing with ghosts. Funny thing, a lot of Filipinos get Aswang and Manananggal mixed because of the Aswang film (something that annoyed my grandmother).
...

Thank you so much for sharing all of those details! You really helped me make sense out of a lot of the conflicting information that I found on various sites. I hope we'll see more Pathfinder materials inspired by these mythological traditions.

Honestly killing off a core deity feels really lame to me and more like the gimmick of a comic book event than something I want to see in an RPG setting. It feels super limiting especially since Pathfinder's pantheon is one of its strong suits which draws me to the Lost Omens setting over many others.

I think this all harkens back to how Golarion was borne out of James Jacobs' home game setting, and in one of Mr. Jacobs' campaigns he killed off Abadar just to set up the premise of "what happens when the God of Civilization dies".

Heck, the inciting incident of the entire current setting is "Aroden is for-real dead despite his prophesied return."

So I think there's precedent for this. To say nothing of Acavna and Amaznen's sacrificing themselves to save the entire planet, or Lamashtu killing Curchanus in order to take the Beast domain. There's more than a few dead gods in the rear view mirror.

I don’t know about Golarion language stylings, but I always pronounced Minata as “Mee-nah-ta” in my head.

Thank you so much for sharing all of those details! You really helped me make sense out of a lot of the conflicting information that I...

My apologies for the info dumping! Overall resources are pretty scarce and something that's not really understood (even amongst Filipinos) is just how rich and diverse the different cultures are on the islands! A lot of the online resources are only a small fraction of the different stories/interpretations.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a lot of those stories I grew up on online. I grew up on the book "Tales of the 7,000 Isles: Popular Filipino Folktales", which my grandmother was able to expound more on those stories. Not sure if it is still available or in print anymore. But there's a lot of fun stories: some heroic stories/epics both local/Indian-inspired, a Filipino version of Aladdin from the Muslim traders, nature stories such as why the sea is salty/why jellyfish don't have bones/why plants are where they are. A favorite of mine is the story of the race between the carabao and turtle. Similar to the the tortoise and the hare, but the lesson is different: the power of community (and trickery) vs. individual strength; not the "slow and steady wins the race".

I don’t know about Golarion language stylings, but I always pronounced Minata as “Mee-nah-ta” in my head.

Ya, it's a fictional word, in a fictional world. Just ever since they spoiled that it is a "Filipino inspired" place in a popular TTRPG, I kinda got giddy and jumpy for joy. Filipino languages are also more "staccato/choppy" and according to other folks sounds closer to "clucking". It's not exactly a guttural language, but like other Malayo-Polynesian languages, it has prominent usage of the 'glottal stop'. One of my Aunties mentioned how our family language (to other Filipinos) is described as sounding like "the chirping of birds in the trees".

To me (based on how they're pronouncing it), I expect the 'na' part to sound more like how we say "not" in American (Californian-accent?). More forceful/flat-downward and not elongated/stretched/rising. So more like "Me'-not'-ah'". Well, except it's a ta at the end. Unless it's one of those Aunties that add flair to everything, lol! But I'm just one person, so maybe someone else's experience is different!

Anyway sorry, I'll stop with the linguistic nonsense! I've been around a lot of Asian communities and it's exciting having your culture be seen for once (instead of treated lesser).

Gisher wrote:

Thank you so much for sharing all of those details! You really helped me make sense out of a lot of the conflicting information that I...

My apologies for the info dumping!

...

No, please, more info dumping. It's really interesting.