Kineticist Playtest Analysis

Wednesday, October 5, 2022

Hello, all! I’m Logan Bonner, Pathfinder Lead Designer and the primary designer of the kineticist. Now that we’ve finished up the class playtest, I want to cover where we’re planning to go with the class. Many of these changes are based on your survey feedback, as well as common comments we witnessed monitoring the forums and social media. This took a while, because the playtest had a big turnout. We don’t usually share these numbers, but the kineticist got exactly 1,000 survey responses, and that was too fun to keep to ourselves! (There were fewer for the open response, as is typical.)

I want to hit the main changes we’re planning to make. These aren’t necessarily the final changes, as our internal testing and number-crunching might nix some of them. Also, there are many other small changes I won’t be covering here to keep things brief(ish)—some of you dropped fun little ideas that we’ll just implement, but aren’t massively important to the bigger picture of the class.



Yoon, the iconic kineticist. Sketch by Wayne Reynolds
Yoon, the iconic kineticist. Sketch by Wayne Reynolds

Main Takeaways: Overall, the class had good ratings, but not top tier. If it went in the book as-is, it would be pretty effective and fun, but we think there’s clear room for improvement to make it a standout. Respondents vastly preferred the impulses of the playtest over expressing elemental powers as spellcasting of any kind. One common refrain though, was that damage was too low, especially on many of the overflow abilities. We were pretty conservative on the playtest, and we’ll be carefully turning some of the damage up. We’re also planning to reduce the overall number of overflow impulses while dialing up their effects, keeping the trait just for those impulses that have a major effect on the battle and feel worth spending a lot of actions to do.

Though the class is intended to be pretty focused on combat, we do have some concerns about the lack of options for kineticists during exploration, downtime, and the like. We’ll be seeing what we can do to make feel less narrow in those situations. It’s yet to be determined whether that comes in the form of more skills, some specific abilities, or a mix.

Complexity vs. Simplicity: The big challenge of this class is making it simple enough that it’s accessible and fun for a new player or a player who wants to play a character with a more straightforward playstyle. Many of the classes after the Advanced Player’s Guide have needed to be more complex to convey their concept. With the kineticist, we wanted to pull this back! Attaining the variety the class needs while not adding even more rules to remember is tricky, but rest assured we want the final class to make sense for its target audience. We did have a small number of respondents who wanted many different mechanics in the class at once (like having impulses, focus spells, cantrips, AND burn), but we’re not looking to go in that direction so that we can keep things streamlined.

Our ultimate goal is to have a class that feels extremely adept with their elements or elements. They will resemble a non-spellcaster in that they have a small set of tools they’ve very strong with, but also will resemble a spellcaster in their ability to create magical effects and straightforward focus on their impulses. It’s worth noting that, because kineticists have fewer tools, some impulses will just be stronger than comparable spells. Wings of Air from the playtest was often noted as being stronger than fly, but it’s intentional that the kineticist who is fully dedicated to mastering air is better at flying than a wizard who knows many spells and simply prepares one spell slot with a fly spell.

Lack of Clarity: One of the major problems we saw frequently was confusion over the intended role of certain parts of the class. What was meant to be important? What’s more of a side benefit? We saw this in attack rolls vs. class DC, the specialty of each element, the difference between overflow impulses and other impulses, and so on. We’re looking to streamline these for the final, to introduce bigger differences and clearer paths. For one example, multiple elements having healing abilities made it a bit muddy about what “belonged” to each element. So, for the final, expect each element to have a clearer identity while still allowing enough variety to not feel too stale.

Elemental Blast: The contrast between Elemental Blasts and other impulses touches on the lack of clarity too. After seeing feedback, we’re looking at switching it to function similarly to other impulses and act more like an attack cantrip. This will likely require something similar to a spell attack roll, letting you use your Constitution for it. This has several benefits: it should let us simplify how it works, make Con clearly the best choice for your top ability score, free up kineticist characters’ ability boosts for a wider variety of characters, and still allow upgrades to the blast. This does leave some challenges, especially around a kineticist’s item loadout.

We intend to move any “use your element as a weapon” options into the Elemental Weapon feat so that still remains as an option—especially for melee kineticists. The final form of the Elemental Blast is still to be decided, since it relies on a lot of other moving parts, but we intend to keep it as a versatile option with some variety between the elements.

There was plenty of disagreement among playtesters about whether the class should be primarily a single-target damage dealer or be built around more varied effects. Much of this had to do with whether the player believed the Elemental Blast or the other impulses were the core mechanic of the class. Going all-in on single-target blasts can lead to extremely stagnant, repetitive play, so we aren’t planning to make that the sole focus. However, we will be exploring what room we have for boosting single-target damage as an option for those who want it, without making that the only role the class can fill.

Constitution?: The survey asked whether people preferred Constitution or a mental score for class DC. Though the responses wanting a mental score were quite low, there were a significant number of write-in responses that liked Con but also wanted it to be more important to the class. Looking at the issue and the target audience of the class, we’re planning to make Constitution matter a bit more so it’s the clear choice for your top ability score. This should allow more flexibility in other scores and open up a broader array of character concepts.

The change to Elemental Blast noted above is linked to this. We might also use Constitution for damage on some impulses or in certain circumstances.

Gates: We had a mixed bag of feedback about the gate options (dedicated gate, dual gate, and universal gate). Taking it as a whole, we’re currently leaning toward having a dedicated gate or dual gate option at 1st level, with class feature later on that let a kineticist either further specialize in an element they can channel or to expand to a new element. Universal gate had issues at low levels because it felt like the best option in some ways, but was also limited too severely by a small number of impulses. We think the new version will enable a story of a kineticist developing their elemental breadth over time in a more organic way, rather than locking them in tightly at level 1 with nowhere to grow.

Gathering your Element: Many playtesters noted that Gathering an Element felt like an action tax. Lots of folks equated it with drawing a weapon, which was the intended equivalent, but many people really wanted it to be more exciting, like the actions a swashbuckler can use to gain panache. There were also some mentions that it could be too much bookkeeping to track multiple elements for dual gate and universal gate—easy to forget which one you currently have gathered. The current plan for this part of kineticist play is to replace gathering an element with a process that serves a similar rules function, but has a theme that’s a bit more fun and fits the kineticist’s presentation a bit better.

Our current thinking is to have the kineticist surrounded with their kinetic aura at all times, letting their elements swirl around them. The aura doesn’t have any effect on its own—it’s just for show—though dedicated gate kineticists might get a minor benefit. To use an impulse, the kineticist directs the flowing elements with a free hand. Overflow impulses exhaust the aura, similar to expending a gathered element in the playtest. It would then take a single action to cause a resurgence from your inner gate, also granting an added benefit. This might be using a kinetic aura impulse to alter the effect of the aura, making an Elemental Blast, or a specific benefit related to an element. The final form will depend on the complexity of the other options in the class. We think this will be easier to understand, link better to other abilities within the class, and better tell the class’s story.

Manipulate Trait: There was a lot of conversation about the manipulate trait triggering Attacks of Opportunity and putting the melee kineticist in danger. This isn’t a factor in most combats, but in combats against many monsters with Attack of Opportunity, it’ll get you dead in a hurry! The discussions about this reinforced that the inclusion of concentrate and manipulate on all impulses was carried forward from how spells work... and these aren’t supposed to be just like spells! So, it’s likely the final impulses will still include concentrate, but manipulate will only appear on impulses where it’s essential to the action taking place in the story.

Burn: Burn was a hot topic, as expected! Survey feedback found that using impulses and gathering elements came out ahead, even when we combined burn and the “other” survey choice. There were plenty of votes for burn and for “other,” though, so it was far from a blowout. Fundamentally, we’re aiming at the “nonstop magic” fantasy for this class—the kineticist isn’t meant to be about long-term resource management. That means burn has to clear a pretty high bar to be included, since it pulls the class into relying more on resource management and limited-use abilities. Most suggestions we’ve seen so far for including a burn-type mechanic lead to the class feeling either too heavy on long-term planning, or too repetitive or exploitable. We’ll continue looking at possibilities as we work on the final version. It’s possible there might be a niche for implementing burn as an option for those interested, provided we find a way to make it dynamic.

More Stuff... and Less Stuff: The kineticist is a very big class, as we want each element to feel fun and distinct, and keeping it within the book’s page count is pretty difficult. As we add more elements to the class for the final version, there’s a high likelihood we’ll have to condense and trim back some other options. We’re aiming to condense down some of the overly complex bits rather than chopping whole impulses, but we might end up between a rock and a hard place, so be forewarned!


Initial Playtest and Design

We did a bit of a different process for the kineticist class design, as mentioned when I talked about James Case’s prototype kineticist character. That was part of an early playtest with the design team, Solomon St. John, and Shay Snow. Each designer made a single kineticist character. Not a list of feats, proficiencies, and all that—just the most basic playable character possible. Jason Bulmahn GMed a short adventure, and we tried out many different takes on the class! This hearkens back to the very first days of 2nd edition design, when we did something similar with a cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard based on some basic benchmarks.

How about another peek behind the curtain? Here are the elemental webs showing the strengths of the various elements. This was for the playtest version, so you’ll see some big alterations for the final as we differentiate the elements more, as mentioned above. Metal and wood were purely speculative! We didn’t write any impulses for those before the playtest.

Category Air Earth Fire Metal Water Wood Sum
Creation 2 3 3 3 3 4 18
Healing 2 2 1 1 2 3 11
Defense 1 4 2 3 2 3 15
Mobility 4 1 2 2 3 1 13
Destruction 2 3 4 3 2 2 16
Trickery 3 1 2 2 2 1 11
14 14 14 14 14 14

Kineticist Element Webs showing off the different strengths of the elements  An infographic consisting of a traditional table and several web diagrams indicating the different strengths of the elements to a kineticist


Not a Wish, Merely a Request

We’ve mentioned the inclusion of the elemental Plane of Metal and Plane of Wood. In sympathy for all this time you’ve had to spend with air, earth, fire, and water, how about a preview item from one of these elements? Enjoy a look at the damaj’s gloves, and see what you can suss out about the element, plane, and book from the multiple references in this stat block!

Damaj’s Gloves — Item 13

Evocation, Invested, Magical, Metal
Price 3,000 gp
Usage worn gloves; Bulk

This elaborate metallic webbing feels soft when wrapped around your hands and forearms. It constantly shifts its strands and connections. The name of a zuhra damaj is etched in Talican on the only part of the item that is unchanging. You gain a +3 item bonus to your Reflex DC against attempts to Disarm an item you’re holding in your hands.

Activate [two-actions] command, Interact; Frequency once per day; Requirements You’re wielding a weapon made primarily of metal; Effect You extend the weapon and call out the zuhra’s name. It channels its magic through the gloves to assist you with its choice of offense or defense (as determined by the GM). The zuhra makes any choices for the spell, and any save DC is 30.

Offense The metal of the gloves wraps around your weapon and channels the zuhra’s magic to cast a 6th-level weapon storm spell, replicating the metal weapon.

Defense The metal flows off your arms, creating a blade barrier. The blades have the appearance of your weapon. You lose the damaj’s gloves’ item bonus until the barrier ends, at which point the metal returns to your hands and forearms. You can Dismiss the activation.

The Elements of Style

As I close up this article, I’d like to throw a fond salute to our incredible corps of authors!

Rage of Elements was written by Logan Bonner, James Case, Jessica Catalan, Andrew D. Geels, Sen H.H.S., Patrick Hurley, Jason Keeley, Luis Loza, Mark Moreland, Jonathan Morgantini, AJ Neuro, Jessica Redekop, Solomon St. John, Mark Seifter, Shahreena Shahrani, Shay Snow, Levi Steadman, Mari Tokuda, Ruvaid Virk, Andrew White, and Linda Zayas-Palmer!


As I pop into a portal to transport myself to some plane beyond human ken, I want to tell you all how much we appreciate your playtesting and element slinging! There will be plenty more to explore in Rage of Elements!

Logan Bonner
Pathfinder Lead Designer

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The Raven Black wrote:
But I do not see having more HPs than the Barbarian as a requirement for every Kineticist.

I guess the basic issue is that for every KAS that's not "STR/DEX" the stat tells us something about the class. Like the Wizard, Investigator, and Inventor are Int classes which tells us that they are about figuring things out, being analytical, and knowing things that are useful. The Sorcerer, Thaumaturge, and Oracle are Cha classes which tells me that they are about having such a strong force of personality that they can get the universe itself to cooperate. The Druid and the Cleric being Wis classes tells me that these classes operate on intuition, awareness, and being able to understand things that they can't put into words.

All these things are reflected in how Int, Cha, and Wis are relevant to different skills and more fundamental game mechanics like "more trained skills" or "perception checks."

The problem with being a Con class is that Con is a vestigial skill, basically only applies to Fort saves and HP (also holding your breath and starvation, but that doesn't come up much). Job 1 for making a Con class is "making it do something else" but we don't really know what that is yet. So in terms of "what does Con actually do" moving the needle on HP is simpler than giving them even more Fortitude. You could after all, house rule to double the HP of every PC, and it wouldn't really break the game (but might make combat less exciting.)


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

The thing is, I want to be able to build the Kineticist as a Tank rather than a "utility or blaster caster" This was an entirely viable way to play the class in PF1 where you could just use the innate damage scaling of your blast to make you someone that enemies have to pay attention to, while being really, really hard to bring down.

I would be very sad if this particular play-style went away. Let me build the Kineticist towards something Tankier than the Champion, Monk, or the Barbarian please. I am not a caster, I am a martial that throws balls of rock. HP is already kind of the least valuable kind of defense (it's the last line of defense) so if anybody should have the most of it, it's the Con class.

From what I could see, you're still going to get "kineticist as a viable tank", but only in some elements, and a lot of your tank will be in the form of getting defenses and stickiness out of your impulses. Earth will get a fair bit, with metal and wood being decent. Wood in particular looks like ti might have some interesting heal-tank opportunities.

Now, I don't think that you're going to be able to match a dedicated Champion as a tank, but that's because "best tank" is kind of the Champion's thing, and even a defense-specced kineticist is going to have more flexibility and utility than a defense-specced Champion. I'm pretty sure, though, that there will be ways to start with a kineticist and build a respectable primary tank for your party.

...and yeah, your con is going to bring your HP totals up to about where the other tank-viable classes are, but it's not going to push you way beyond them. That seems reasonable to me.

...at least, that's my read, based on what I've seen.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:

for a light armor class that is not using dex as an offense stat, to tank, they are going to need to have more hp than a base fighter for sure because they are going to have ac in the same ballpark as a raging barbarian for much of the game until they can pull their dex up to where it needs to be


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Kekkres wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
for a light armor class that is not using dex as an offense stat, to tank, they are going to need to have more hp than a base fighter for sure because they are going to have ac in the same ballpark as a raging barbarian for much of the game until they can pull their dex up to where it needs to be

Light armor includes both studded leather and chain shirt, which will give you your base 5 just fine at dex of 16. That's plenty doable from level 1 if you make dex your secondary... or doable even without a dex secondary, if you're willing to be down a single point until level 5.

That's not really where I'm coming from, though. My confidence that the Earth kineticist will be able to tank is really a lot simpler than that. The impulses we were shown out of Earth in the playtest were clearly intended to let you play an Earth Kineticist as a tanky front-liner. The design notes we see up above indicate that that intent hasn't changed. I have confidence in their ability to produce an Earth Kineticist who can fill that role, and thus the clear indication of intent is enough for me to have confidence that it's going to happen. Now... it's possible that I'll be incorrect about one or more details of how it happens, but I have faith that we're going to be able to go out and get a copy of Rage of Elements, build an Earth Kineticist with an eye towards tanking, and produce results that can be respectable tanks.

My arguments about HP come from the fact that Air and Fire kineticists pretty clearly aren't supposed to be tanks, and loading them down with the kind of HP that you'd get with base 12 Hp *and* a con focus would be kind of excessive for any reasonable role they might fill. I suppose that it's possible that air kineticists and earth kineticists might have different base HP... but it would be weird.


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Kekkres wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
for a light armor class that is not using dex as an offense stat, to tank, they are going to need to have more hp than a base fighter for sure because they are going to have ac in the same ballpark as a raging barbarian for much of the game until they can pull their dex up to where it needs to be

This.

Also heavy armor melee only Kinetic Knight should 1000% be a class archetype.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

My point on the CON and HP argument is simply this...why CON? I get, and like that they plan to make CON to hit and damage a thing, but really if that is it then it feels like bending over backwards to shoehorn CON in there as it would just be easier to use litterally any other stat.

I want it to feel right about CON being their stat. Highest HP is just my first thought simply because HP is what CON is best known for. It made since in 1e because of burn using HP as a resource and thus they needed to be hardy to survive. This also worked well at combining lore with mechanics as it represented the taxing nature of the Kineticist's abilities on their body.

As it stands, Kineticist just doesn't feel like it fits the theme of CON specialization and mechanically doesn't feel like it makes much difference. All the while, making the Kineticist, by default, the worst class at skill challenges.

So, if HP isn't the answer to making Kineticist feel like they SHOULD be a CON class, that's fine. However, there should be something defining here aside from a shoehorned mechanic.


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I mean the Kineticist having Con as a KAS is fundamentally about "having an internal elemental gate stresses your body, and the more stress your body can handle, the better you are at controlling that gate" which explains why you can use Con for blasting things.

But if "constant resistance training on every molecule of your being in order to do your thing" doesn't make you tougher than your peers, I'm really confused about the interplay of Thematics and Mechanics here.


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Unicore wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

The thing is, I want to be able to build the Kineticist as a Tank rather than a "utility or blaster caster" This was an entirely viable way to play the class in PF1 where you could just use the innate damage scaling of your blast to make you someone that enemies have to pay attention to, while being really, really hard to bring down.

I would be very sad if this particular play-style went away. Let me build the Kineticist towards something Tankier than the Champion, Monk, or the Barbarian please. I am not a caster, I am a martial that throws balls of rock. HP is already kind of the least valuable kind of defense (it's the last line of defense) so if anybody should have the most of it, it's the Con class.

I thought the playtest tried this out pretty well, but it seems like people in the surveys pushed back and said “more blaster please!”

With blasts moving to a spell casting progression (allowing them to keep the proficiency boost at 7 and probably target more saving throws), I think the final result is going to be less magicky martial and more caster but with feats instead of spells.

Meant to post this last night but forgot.

People in the playtest pushed against how Paizo was making Kineticist into just another support caster with a weird weapon mechanic. When the class should be a magical martial that attacks using magic instead of a weapon and has loads of utility.

Saying "oh they wanted a blaster" is a gross mischaracterization of what people wanted. Which was "if this class isn't allowed to be a blaster no class ever will be a blaster".


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I liked the weapon like nature of the blasts. Hopefully elemental weapon sticks around in some form for kinetic blade stuff.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I mean the Kineticist having Con as a KAS is fundamentally about "having an internal elemental gate stresses your body, and the more stress your body can handle, the better you are at controlling that gate" which explains why you can use Con for blasting things.

But if "constant resistance training on every molecule of your being in order to do your thing" doesn't make you tougher than your peers, I'm really confused about the interplay of Thematics and Mechanics here.

But that's just it, your not tougher than your peers (as measured by your HP). The Ranger/Monk/Fighter/Champion/Swashbuckler standing next to you at level 4 with 16 CON has 52 HP, the Barbarian has 60 HP, while you have 48 HP (excluding ancestry HP for continuity).

Thus, the lore SAYS that you should be extremely hardy due to the "internal elemental gate constantly stressing your body" but the reality/mechanics is that you are less hardy than somebody who trains with a weapon a lot. Thus the implication is that training to learn how to master this incredibly stressful inner gate to another plane results in less physical actualization than swinging a sword during regular training sessions.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Invictus Fatum wrote:
My point on the CON and HP argument is simply this...why CON?

I mean, why not CON? It fits the fantasy of the class and it's somewhat unique. Same reason Wizards use Int, Clerics use Wis, and Sorcerers use Cha. There's no inherent gravity toward any of those attributes outside the way the system has been constructed around their flavor. The kineticist isn't really any different there.


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Invictus Fatum wrote:
But that's just it, your not tougher than your peers (as measured by your HP). The Ranger/Monk/Fighter/Champion/Swashbuckler standing next to you at level 4 with 16 CON has 52 HP, the Barbarian has 60 HP, while you have 48 HP (excluding ancestry HP for continuity).

Okay, now you're just twisting things.

So first, you're arguing that kineticist is a front-line fighter. That's the lineup of "peers" you've presented here. You're not saying that it should be possible for them to play a front-liner (like, say, the inventor or the investigator or the magus or the rogue), you're saying that, at core, they are a front-line fighter, with relatively few builds that might choose to run ranged

Second... seriously? 16 Con? Which of those other classes hops out of the gate by default with 16 con? The front-liners are pretty much all going to want both dex (for AC and initiative and maybe skills and maybe to-hit) and str(for +damage and carry capacity and maybe athletics and maybe to-hit). If it's something like an archer ranger they're certainly not going to blow their 16 on con. Int and wisdom arent' generally that great, but giving yourself some charisma for intimidate and feint and some out-of-combat effectiveness is still definitely a draw. By default, Con for those classes sits at the 12-14 level.

I mean... sometimes, the arguments that you choose to use themselves undermine your position, you know? If you have to twist the numbers like that to make your argument look good....

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:
Invictus Fatum wrote:
But that's just it, your not tougher than your peers (as measured by your HP). The Ranger/Monk/Fighter/Champion/Swashbuckler standing next to you at level 4 with 16 CON has 52 HP, the Barbarian has 60 HP, while you have 48 HP (excluding ancestry HP for continuity).

Okay, now you're just twisting things.

So first, you're arguing that kineticist is a front-line fighter. That's the lineup of "peers" you've presented here. You're not saying that it should be possible for them to play a front-liner (like, say, the inventor or the investigator or the magus or the rogue), you're saying that, at core, they are a front-line fighter, with relatively few builds that might choose to run ranged

Second... seriously? 16 Con? Which of those other classes hops out of the gate by default with 16 con? The front-liners are pretty much all going to want both dex (for AC and initiative and maybe skills and maybe to-hit) and str(for +damage and carry capacity and maybe athletics and maybe to-hit). If it's something like an archer ranger they're certainly not going to blow their 16 on con. Int and wisdom arent' generally that great, but giving yourself some charisma for intimidate and feint and some out-of-combat effectiveness is still definitely a draw. By default, Con for those classes sits at the 12-14 level.

I mean... sometimes, the arguments that you choose to use themselves undermine your position, you know? If you have to twist the numbers like that to make your argument look good....

I think you are confusing my posts with some other people's as I've never made arguments for or against being Frontline aside from what you've quoted there with comparing to front liners. And that argument was simply to point out that, while they are described as being hardy due to the nature of the inner gate stress, people who focus on swinging a weapon regularly become equally or even more hardy.

As for the 16 con, given heavy armor options, I do often pump CON instead of DEX, but point taken.

Obviously we have completely different ideas of what a CON class should be and I'm not trying to make arguments, but to state my opinion which is no more valid than yours.

My opinion is simply that a d10 class with WIS or CHA would be functionally better as it wouldn't gimp skill usage with the "hardiness" represented by the d10 and then the attack & damage would be functionally the same (though I do really want to like it as a CON class)

I dont know, perhaps I was expecting too much from a CON based class. Either that or I'm just completely off base. Then again there could be a feat chain that beefs them up.

Anyway, given your statement I guess I'm coming off as argumentative which is not my intent, so I will stop here.

EDIT: as it has been pointed out that I am coming across as argumentative and perhaps negative I want to say that I'm still very excited for the Kineticist. It was my favorite 1e class and I'm hoping it will be my favorite in 2e as well.


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Invictus Fatum wrote:

Anyway, given your statement I guess I'm coming off as argumentative which is not my intent, so I will stop here.

EDIT: as it has been pointed out that I am coming across as argumentative and perhaps negative I want to say that I'm still very excited for the Kineticist. It was my favorite 1e class and I'm hoping it will be my favorite in 2e as well.

Ehhh... I'm probably being unduly grumpy. I'm in a few other slow-roll arguments that are uglier than this one, and I may have let some of that bleed over. So... sorry about that, to the degree that it happened.

Also yes. Agreed on the kineticist hopefulness.


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Kineticist was pretty much fully realized (imo) barring some number tuning so I'm confident the final thing is gonna be pretty fun. I even bet it's gonna be fairly blasty (*provided you compare them to ranged damage dealers and casters*). I'm ready to sling some fire and throw some boulders.

Liberty's Edge

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Invictus Fatum wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I mean the Kineticist having Con as a KAS is fundamentally about "having an internal elemental gate stresses your body, and the more stress your body can handle, the better you are at controlling that gate" which explains why you can use Con for blasting things.

But if "constant resistance training on every molecule of your being in order to do your thing" doesn't make you tougher than your peers, I'm really confused about the interplay of Thematics and Mechanics here.

But that's just it, your not tougher than your peers (as measured by your HP). The Ranger/Monk/Fighter/Champion/Swashbuckler standing next to you at level 4 with 16 CON has 52 HP, the Barbarian has 60 HP, while you have 48 HP (excluding ancestry HP for continuity).

Thus, the lore SAYS that you should be extremely hardy due to the "internal elemental gate constantly stressing your body" but the reality/mechanics is that you are less hardy than somebody who trains with a weapon a lot. Thus the implication is that training to learn how to master this incredibly stressful inner gate to another plane results in less physical actualization than swinging a sword during regular training sessions.

We can also rationalize that the energy is constantly eating at your hit points. So, you have extreme hardiness, most of which is already being used right now.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I know paizocon is a couple months away, but I'm curious about the kineticist features that people most want previewed? My main things I would want spoiled;

- How blasts work, including if they are affected by item runes.

- Martial/Caster(ish?) proficiencies for the final version.

- The perks of being a dedicated/dual gate

- If ice/cold and electric are going to be in, and how to get them (combination of elements? Chosen if air or water is you main element?)

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gaulin wrote:

I know paizocon is a couple months away, but I'm curious about the kineticist features that people most want previewed? My main things I would want spoiled;

- How blasts work, including if they are affected by item runes.

- Martial/Caster(ish?) proficiencies for the final version.

- The perks of being a dedicated/dual gate

- If ice/cold and electric are going to be in, and how to get them (combination of elements? Chosen if air or water is you main element?)

That is pretty much my list as well. The details of blasts, item bonuses, and proficiency (both blasts and class DC) are my primary concerns. That, and what makes them feel like a worthy CON class, but that discussion has been done to death here.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah I dont mean to trudge up the same old debates. But maybe there's a chance if we voice what we're hoping to get hints about during paizocon we might get some of answers to our most burning questions.

That is another very good question, how is itemization going to work for the class.


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Questions I'd want for Paizocon:
- You said that you would be exploring the possibility of offering single-target damage for those who wanted it. Did you find anything in those explorations?
- If I want to play as someone who's a dedicated wielder of ice or lightning or acid, will the rules let me do that?
- What did you all wind up doing with Burn, anyway?
- Can you tell us anything about how elemental auras turned out? Will it be possible to have a build focused on aura effects?


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I can't wait to find out if I will be finally able to play an acid blaster with decent single target damage! The playtest analysis made a bit worried since I'm all about destruction, don't care much about pyrokineticists (there are already so many fire options) and think that blasting cold, electricity and especially acid is inherently more awesome than throwing physical stuff around like a normal martial weapon user,but I'm still hopefull for the final class.

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