Meet the Iconics: Ciravel

Tuesday, December 21, 2021

Ciravel’s first—and only—childhood memory is of tasting the stars. Peering through a window into the depths of space, innumerable galaxies stare back at her and glitter their welcome. She remembers that moment, possibilities and potential branching like fractals, infinite possibilities for infinite stars; and yet, six stars shine brightest of all. Someone hands her something sweet that tastes of honey and spices, and the world smells of citrus and the sea. Fragrance embraces her, the sweetness lingering upon her tongue—the past and the present dancing together in a shared instant.

But before and after… Nothing.

And then, in some time or none at all: heat, and the rain on Sovyrian’s canals.

Ciravel’s young adulthood was spent at the university, where she earned impeccably high marks studying xenobotany, while also attending martial arts and combat training. Time rarely seemed to be the issue for Ciravel “But how do you manage it all?” her classmates asked. Ciravel shrugged. “I plan well. I have to.”

And she did need to plan. Multitudes of worlds and peoples mean multitudes of different shapes, sizes, limb configurations, and body structures. For Ciravel, it meant a body which, since birth, has been particularly responsive to varying gravities, atmospheric pressures, and other planetary properties. Some days, and in some places, Ciravel has little-to-no pain and walking isn’t a problem. Other times or places, she manages exhaustion and pain. Like many others across the Pact Worlds and beyond, using a hoverchair, or a cane for shorter distances, helps Ciravel reduce fatigue and makes moving around less difficult and painful. She trained to fight while using her chair, harnessing the thrusters and momentum to dodge and attack, conserving energy, to use her cane to counterbalance and anchor herself. Ways to minimize a bad day amongst the good and maximize a good day amidst the bad. But never knowing what sort of day was ahead meant Ciravel had to learn early how to plan for each possibility. So, she’d examine each potential outcome and prepare for each iteration until it became instinctual.

After graduation, Ciravel’s academic success in xenobotany caught the Sovyrian leadership’s attention, and in time, she was trusted with occasional official journeys to Absalom Station. Each time she boarded a starship, it felt more like home than Sovyrian ever had. It was the end of one of these trips, heading back through the station towards her waiting ship, that she was stopped in her tracks by the smell of crisp citrus in the sea air.

It was a scent she had all but forgotten, and in an instant, she was back in the memory of a window and stars and spiced honey. And in that moment, existing in two times, simultaneously, she understood. She could bend this moment to her needs. She could stretch time—delay her departure long enough to find the source of the fragrance. It wouldn’t last long, and it’d be exhausting, but it would be enough.

Illustration by Remko Troost and Ignacio Bazán Lazcano.
Illustration by Remko Troost and Ignacio Bazán Lazcano. Starfinder iconic, precog, dressed in a black and gold spacesuit and sitting in a floating chair to assist with mobility

She stretched time at the docks and compressed it nearby. Following the fragrance, or perhaps led by it, she found the source—a young woman with golden eyes and swirling tattoos that almost seemed to dance, carrying a bundle under her arm and walking quickly into a small temple with a shattered mirror on the door—the sign of the Gap Recollective. Ciravel peered in, and when the woman drew back the cloth of the bundle, it revealed a truly ancient warhammer engraved with glowing Dwarven runes. Ciravel tasted spiced honey on her tongue. The young woman looked at her. Smiled.

And Ciravel was suddenly back on the ship home.

Years went by, and Ciravel became the default representative for most off-planet xenobotany meetings. Her excursions were always on time, dodged inclement weather, and when her insular life among the elves caused a diplomatic faux pas, it was somehow forgotten by the next meeting. With the arrival of the Idari, Ciravel was invited as part of the elven delegation to the kasathan worldship. She observed adat and was awed to note that after death the kasatha, like she, exist in two aligned points in time. She befriended one of the adata, who wore a pin engraved with a circle and arrow containing a six-star constellation.

The six stars from her memory.

The adata explained it as the symbol of Ibra, The Inscrutable. Guardian of mysteries and miracles, of exploration and discovery and the cosmos. They spoke at length of Ibra and cosmic enigmas swirling like nebulas and questions, but eventually, Ciravel bid the adata farewell and boarded the ship to Castrovel.

Another young woman boards Ciravel’s ship. She smiles at Ciravel with golden eyes as an unfamiliar object peeks out from the bundle tucked under a tattoo-adorned arm.

Citrus and spiced honey and salt flood Ciravel’s senses. Time stops.

Ciravel tastes the stars a third time. And this time, she understands.

Her memory is of the Gap. And either this woman with the golden eyes or this strange object is a link to it.

Ciravel untangles the possibilities—the present and the future, selecting a strand, tracing it forward. She knows this woman, Prindra, will lead Ciravel to the Gap Recollective on Castrovel. That Ciravel will peer into the maelstrom of the Recollective’s esoteric secrets, and someone, or something, will peer back. That they will hunt her, thinking three moves and four dimensions ahead. Ciravel unknots another time-thread and finds people who can help her, who she will help, who will become trusted companions. Ciravel knows she will become Forlorn, but feels no despair, for she will bend time itself for the friends she will make, keeping them safe on new worlds as they explore the mysteries of the stars together. Invigorated, Ciravel takes these strands and twists them together, weaving them into a new, stronger thread. Possibility.

She peers out the window, smiling at galaxies glittering with infinite potential and adventure and possibility, for Ciravel has time.

Despite understanding and manipulating the mechanisms of time, Ciravel is by no means omniscient. She selects the best plan based on the information she has on a given topic, and even when she knows an outcome, she still gets nervous from time to time. She also recognizes that someone may have information that informs a different option than the one she has chosen, so, while she will defend her statements, Ciravel is willing to follow another’s suggested plan. Her humor tends to be dry and occasionally dark, but she is playful and loyal with people she trusts.

Ciravel’s insular upbringing can manifest both as ignorance, condescension, and elitism—she corrects inaccuracies, but lacks firsthand knowledge about much of the galaxy, its peoples, their worlds, and their cultures, not for want of curiosity, but simply from a lack of exposure—more than once, cultural ignorance has put Ciravel into a sticky situation. She can be impatient and often will finish others’ sentences, assuming she knows what they were going to say, and she’s usually right. When all is said and done, there is nothing that thrills Ciravel more than exploring the galaxy, putting together a puzzle, and staring out at the stars with her friends.

About The Author

Jennifer Kretchmer is a Diana Jones Emerging Game Designer Award finalist, TV produce and performer, author (D&D’s Candlekeep Mysteries, Haunted West), streamer, and disability consultant (Skybound Games: The Walking Dead, MCDM) who has been playing TTRPGs for more than 20 years. She appears on several actual play streams including Vampire: The Nightlife (Renegade) and Heroes of the Planes (Demiplane), where her character, Alyndra, is a playable champion in Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms. Jen is a Jasper’s Game Day Ambassador and is the creator of the Accessibility in Gaming Resource Guide.

Twitter/Instagram: @dreamwisp
Twitch: twitch.tv/dreamwispjen
Linktree: linktr.ee/dreamwisp

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Meet the Iconics Starfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Web Fiction
1 to 50 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge

22 people marked this as a favorite.

As I am a person with chronic pain who walks with a cane in my mid-20s, a person who knows the experience of having to plan my every day... and of knowing that those plans don't always turn out as expected... I love Ciravel.

I've loved a lot of iconics for Starfinder. This is the first to bring tears to my eyes.

Thank you.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've lost track of the various playtests. I'm assuming Ciravel is tied to one of the new Starfinder classes about to release. Which one doesn't seem to be mentioned.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
JohannVonUlm wrote:
I've lost track of the various playtests. I'm assuming Ciravel is tied to one of the new Starfinder classes about to release. Which one doesn't seem to be mentioned.

She's the Precog iconic that is coming with Galactic Magic.


11 people marked this as a favorite.
Sasha Laranoa Harving wrote:

As I am a person with chronic pain who walks with a cane in my mid-20s, a person who knows the experience of having to plan my every day... and of knowing that those plans don't always turn out as expected... I love Ciravel.

I've loved a lot of iconics for Starfinder. This is the first to bring tears to my eyes.

Thank you.

Sasha, I can’t even tell you how much this means to me to read. I was so thrilled when the Starfinder team reached out to make sure Ciravel was depicted with authenticity and respect, and I am so proud of how she has turned out. She’s an incredible badass representing a fantastic class. I’m so excited to have an ambulatory chair user canonically in the world who gets to open up some new possibilities for players and GMs in terms of lore, adventures, and storytelling in the Starfinder universe.

Thank you for this comment. It genuinely made my day.

-Jen

Grand Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
dreamwispjen wrote:
Sasha Laranoa Harving wrote:

As I am a person with chronic pain who walks with a cane in my mid-20s, a person who knows the experience of having to plan my every day... and of knowing that those plans don't always turn out as expected... I love Ciravel.

I've loved a lot of iconics for Starfinder. This is the first to bring tears to my eyes.

Thank you.

Sasha, I can’t even tell you how much this means to me to read. I was so thrilled when the Starfinder team reached out to make sure Ciravel was depicted with authenticity and respect, and I am so proud of how she has turned out. She’s an incredible badass representing a fantastic class. I’m so excited to have an ambulatory chair user canonically in the world who gets to open up some new possibilities for players and GMs in terms of lore, adventures, and storytelling in the Starfinder universe.

Thank you for this comment. It genuinely made my day.

-Jen

Least I can do. You did an incredible job.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't have mobility difficulties, but I know people who do, including family. Thank you so much for this!


A delightful read, and wonderful to see included. Thank you, Jennifer!

Wayfinders

2 people marked this as a favorite.

This might be one of my favorite iconics yet, and I know this is a small thing to get hung up on, but I have to know - what's up with her eyes? They don't look like the typical Paizo-brand elf eyes, yet there's little indicating that Ciravel is a half-elf - what gives?

I love her design and story both aside from that, however.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Love having a disabled iconic for Starfinder, that's super rad


Some real fun times and a fun story.
I'm assumin' precog icon.
Real curious how that class'll play out.


This was a beautiful and wonderful story.

Advocates

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Oh, more representation of conditions I have from Paizo in Iconics.

Fatigue can really hamper lives in so many ways. And the "I have to plan my activities based on what I can manage on that day" can really affect that basic planning of your life. Many days, I have to scrap my plans because I'm completely exhausted (today being a great example of going "Oooh, I could get in a grocery shop before the holidays shut everything for a few days", then after breakfast "Ah fudge, I'm struggling to hold my body up now, let alone consider getting dressed and wandering around a grocery store").

Thanks for being you Ciravel, and especially thanks to Jennifer for giving her a completely relatable back story, from someone with a similar condition and similar planning skills.

Dataphiles

5 people marked this as a favorite.

The realism to the day-to-day condition of the character is really awesome. I don't have any firsthand knowledge, but it seems both very believable but also amazingly inspiring to see a character who has such issues and still manages what they can.

Admittedly, the part that most caught me (and I can't believe it never occurred to me to try this in the playtest for Precog) was the fact that it brought up something in lore I deeply care about being explored. How Elves (and other long-lived species) deal with the Gap, since many of them were alive during it and essentially have a chunk of their personal memory missing. Memory loss is yet another issue that many people have to deal with and it can honestly be terrifying to realize that pieces of what make you who you are might be lost forever.

From my perspective at least, this new iconic is not only exploring the reality of dealing with certain physical limitations but certain mental limitations as well, and how one manages and pieces together the resources they still have to remain as functional as they can and contribute their best.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Cassi wrote:

Oh, more representation of conditions I have from Paizo in Iconics.

Fatigue can really hamper lives in so many ways. And the "I have to plan my activities based on what I can manage on that day" can really affect that basic planning of your life. Many days, I have to scrap my plans because I'm completely exhausted (today being a great example of going "Oooh, I could get in a grocery shop before the holidays shut everything for a few days", then after breakfast "Ah fudge, I'm struggling to hold my body up now, let alone consider getting dressed and wandering around a grocery store").

Thanks for being you Ciravel, and especially thanks to Jennifer for giving her a completely relatable back story, from someone with a similar condition and similar planning skills.

I'm so glad this resonates for you. I have always said that learning to be prepared for anything and having backup plans for my backup plans at times often feels like one of my strongest skill sets, and it all comes from necessity due to my disability. To me, it really felt like Ciravel could take that idea and amplify it. Too often, people view disability as a tragedy and don't recognize the extraordinary resilience, resourcefulness, creativity, innovation, and skills that disabled people have, often developed out of necessity. There is so much untapped potential. I hope that Ciravel helps provide a perspective on the real-world experience of disabled people through the lens of fantasy and fiction.

Thank you for the kind words. It means so, so much that people are seeing their experiences represented in her story.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Syvis wrote:

The realism to the day-to-day condition of the character is really awesome. I don't have any firsthand knowledge, but it seems both very believable but also amazingly inspiring to see a character who has such issues and still manages what they can.

Admittedly, the part that most caught me (and I can't believe it never occurred to me to try this in the playtest for Precog) was the fact that it brought up something in lore I deeply care about being explored. How Elves (and other long-lived species) deal with the Gap, since many of them were alive during it and essentially have a chunk of their personal memory missing. Memory loss is yet another issue that many people have to deal with and it can honestly be terrifying to realize that pieces of what make you who you are might be lost forever.

From my perspective at least, this new iconic is not only exploring the reality of dealing with certain physical limitations but certain mental limitations as well, and how one manages and pieces together the resources they still have to remain as functional as they can and contribute their best.

One of the most exciting things, to me, about Ciravel, was that, unlike everyone else we've met so far, she would have been alive during the Gap. I'm a huge lore nerd in general, and I love setting-wide mysteries. It was very important to me that her disability NOT be linked to or a consequence of the Gap, but there is absolutely something exciting to the idea of, along with an entire community who would ALSO not have any memory of that time period, trying to untangle a mystery that no one can remember. Where do you even begin? And what does it mean to realize that you are beginning to remember something that no one else can?

As a GM, the idea of a campaign built around a group trying to reconstruct the story of the Gap is such an exciting concept that offers up so many possibilities rooted in lore while still giving GMs SO much freedom to put their own spin on it and build a completely unique story.

I'm so glad you're excited to see the new story pieces that Ciravel brings to the universe!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
RiverMesa wrote:

This might be one of my favorite iconics yet, and I know this is a small thing to get hung up on, but I have to know - what's up with her eyes? They don't look like the typical Paizo-brand elf eyes, yet there's little indicating that Ciravel is a half-elf - what gives?

I love her design and story both aside from that, however.

I mean, her irises are still huge and she's looking sideways. Paizo elves still have sclera. So I would imagine that if she was looking at you directly her eyes would be more like what you would expect, with the irises seeming to be her entire eye.

That and artistic license let's different people interpret the description of paizo elves in myriad ways. She's still consistent with the description for elves we are used to, just maybe not as much with other art which is okay.

Marketing & Media Manager

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sparrowhawk_92 wrote:
RiverMesa wrote:

This might be one of my favorite iconics yet, and I know this is a small thing to get hung up on, but I have to know - what's up with her eyes? They don't look like the typical Paizo-brand elf eyes, yet there's little indicating that Ciravel is a half-elf - what gives?

I love her design and story both aside from that, however.

I mean, her irises are still huge and she's looking sideways. Paizo elves still have sclera. So I would imagine that if she was looking at you directly her eyes would be more like what you would expect, with the irises seeming to be her entire eye.

That and artistic license let's different people interpret the description of paizo elves in myriad ways. She's still consistent with the description for elves we are used to, just maybe not as much with other art which is okay.

I don't know the story here, but looking at the art in Starfinder Galactic Magic, I'd say is it intentional. I'm out. Happy Holidays!


This is a very interesting iconic to read about both because I have not been following the precog that closely so some parts of the story I had to read through a couple more times to understand but also because this one feels like one of those stories players need to read to get a good idea about what the class is about.

With Ciravel herself I do like how she is someone who has thrived despite things being stacked against her while also giving a more in-universe view on how some people interact with the varying gravities and properties of different planets. The short description at the end regarding her personality and how she acts around others was a nice touch and helpful for those who would use her in their campaigns and helps flesh out the character.

Talking about playing her you can do a lot with her as outside of the obvious mysterious woman with warhammer and all the Gap related stuff you can do as Ciravel tries to learn stuff there. The academically smart but lacing real-world experience is always a fun angle to explore and exploring more how technology and science could further help her at later levels could be fun if done well.

I am interested to see her in iconic encounters because of how the rest of the crew will interact with her in those stories. Outside of the obvious ideas of one of the healing, support and mechanic minded individuals helping her everyday life there is Zemir and the interactions you can have with someone who sees and interacts with alternate universes and the one that sees potential timelines would be interesting. Keskodai would be another interesting one as Pharasma is a goddess of prophecy so seeing both these characters with themes of foresight would be neat. Barsala would also be fun as the two share an interest in life science and seeing how the two work together could be cool.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

And the above can be summed up as "My ego beats your experience".

*pinches ridge of nose*

I'm definitely not a source of knowledge on these subjects, but dood, telling a disability consultant they should gamify disabilities in a game (so people can minmax, why else? You can already play a character with disabilities) and also that you know better than her on the topic?

"unless she loved her new hoverchair so much that she would rather crawl than to walk normally."

On second though forget snark, go be worthless elsewhere.

Edited for clarity.

Dark Archive

To the extent they addressed a few types of disabilities I think the Org play guidelines did a reasonable job of opening up some possibilities in game. But much of the nuance of portraying various types of disabilities is much easier to handle in narrative compared to in game. The above narrative does a pretty good job from my perspective. The challenges though abound once we start going in game, and or representation for that matter. Both of my children have participated in college level athletics, something quite meaningful to me in large part because I new that could never happen for me because of the severity of my disability. A simple reality of biology. And yet others with much less severe versions are fortunate enough to have been able to participate at that level. Coming up with philosophical arguments about cures requiring a notion of a perfect whole body are deeply angering because it straight up sweeps the actual suffering under the rug. So if the mechanics don't support the actual challenges it isn't real representation, and in many cases those challenges don't translate well into game mechanics. Though as JiCi suggests they could be very powerful narrative motivators.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

“So if the mechanics don't support the actual challenges it isn't real representation”

I’d disagree, this is fantasy after all, and your PC no matter what, is more or less super human (as in far above human standards) even at level 1. -Finder has never tried to be realistic, so stating a disability has to be “realistic” to be real representation is rather crass I’d say.

Dark Archive

Very much the opposite as you identify realism isn't a strength of the system which I'm fine with until one starts conflating real world accomplishments/ goals/ achievements. Then they risk becoming at best difficult to rectify or in this case mutually incompatible. Making it so characters in the name of being super exceptional just ignore the difficulties is completely problematic. It only gets worse when one considers how many distinct medical conditions one would need to mechanically represent. If one is going to abandon realism best keep it distinct all the way.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

That reads to me that there shouldn’t be representation, which I disagree with verily.

I’m probably overstepping but I’ll still say There’s numerous problems with making disabilities “realistic” like your asking, in that it won’t be “realistic” enough for people and so they’ll ask for the penalties to be worse to possibly having the characters be unplayable, in the name of “realism”.

“until one starts conflating real world accomplishments/ goals/ achievements.”

This doesn’t make any sense, and feels elitist to me. It’s a fantasy game, characters with disabilities can be superheroes in it.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Davor Firetusk wrote:
To the extent they addressed a few types of disabilities I think the Org play guidelines did a reasonable job of opening up some possibilities in game. But much of the nuance of portraying various types of disabilities is much easier to handle in narrative compared to in game. The above narrative does a pretty good job from my perspective. The challenges though abound once we start going in game, and or representation for that matter. Both of my children have participated in college level athletics, something quite meaningful to me in large part because I new that could never happen for me because of the severity of my disability. A simple reality of biology. And yet others with much less severe versions are fortunate enough to have been able to participate at that level. Coming up with philosophical arguments about cures requiring a notion of a perfect whole body are deeply angering because it straight up sweeps the actual suffering under the rug. So if the mechanics don't support the actual challenges it isn't real representation, and in many cases those challenges don't translate well into game mechanics. Though as JiCi suggests they could be very powerful narrative motivators.

Absolutely, the genuine experience of disability should not be erased, and I hear where you are coming from about the cure narrative. The ideas of cures are a complex topic within the disabled community, often, at its core, as a discussion between those who subscribe to the medical vs. social model of disability. (Andrew Pulrang has a great article on this that's linked in the Accessibility in Gaming Resource Guide linked in my pinned post on Twitter or on my Linktree). Unfortunately, it's a narrative that is, to me, deeply ableist. And certainly, there are things we deal with that do affect what we can and cannot do day-to-day, and reduced pain/symptoms and increased access are certainly things that are generally seen as positive. But cure narratives have deep ties to eugenics, and many disabled people feel that our disabilities are inextricably linked to us. Cures DO imply that there is a normative body--the one that you are being "fixed" to meet, rather than addressing that as a society, we have failed to make the world accessible to disabled people and our access needs, which absolutely involve medical support. (Note: not subscribing to the medical MODEL of disability does not imply that medical CARE isn't essential--in fact, it's one of the main access needs that the social model focuses on). In your example, I would argue that your disability isn't the issue--the problem was that there was not an inclusive college-level sports team available to you. However, as a community, and as you indicate, we are not a monolith--two people with the same condition may have entirely different access needs.

I also think that I may not have been clear enough when I said that it wasn't reflected mechanically. Ciravel's stats certainly are in line with her specific set of conditions (which are, in part, based on my own as an ambulatory wheelchair user with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and a number of related conditions), with the assumption that she uses any necessary assistive devices. At a later time, I'd love to think about building some optional mechanics to better reflect the lived experience of chronic pain and mobility disabilities for her, and for anyone who is interested in exploring designing their own, I'm always happy to point people to two really great articles linked in the Accessibility in Gaming Resource Guide (it's my pinned post on Twitter and in my Linktree): "Reimagining Disability in Role-Playing Games" by Elsa Sjunnesson, and "Game Mechanics That Treat Disability as a Limitation" by Fay Onyx. But for the moment, those nuanced aspects of Ciravel's experience will likely skew more narrative, rather than mechanical.

Ciravel is certainly not meant to represent all wheelchair users--some of us have pain, some of us are ambulatory, some of us use power chairs, some need mouth controls to steer. Ciravel only represent's Ciravel, and as an Iconic, she's yours to play as you wish at your table. I genuinely hope that she's not the last disabled character introduced into the Starfinder universe, and I'd love to see other disabled designers collaborating to share their own lived experiences through new characters.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Some things to remember in Starfinder is that A) things cost money and free health care is not a thing here. Barsala would not have gotten her mechanical hand without her entire community chipping in to help her and in the fourth book of Threefold conspiracy there is another character that without the kindness of others would not have been able to get life saving treatment. Ciravel's last job might not have covered the expense for dealing with her pain and she could never afford it because of her other expenses. Magic while useful is not always going to be available because you need the right spell, someone who is both powerful enough to cast it and know it. The second book of Curse of the Crimson Throne went into detail how a plague could happen in a place that had tons of divine casters running around.

The last thing you need to keep in mind is that while gameplay wise it is usually glossed over for sake of player ease and fun is that the Pact Worlds have a ton of different species with different biology's what is a cure for one disease in a species is not necessarily work for another. Medicine still needs to be researched and tested and researches need to both keep up with new strains of old diseases but also entirely new ones or super rare ones that not a lot of people have.

Dark Archive

Ciravel is one of my favorite iconics. Her story kind of reminds me of how they dealt with gravity in the Expanse. Given enough gravity and or constantly changing gravity, we all could be her at some time in some places.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm all for the cyberpunk style 'I don't feel like waiting a month for my broken arm to heal, chop it off an give me a laser cannon instead' kind of ridiculousness starfinder can do.

But just saying 'oh chop off your lower body and replace it with cybernetics so you can walk like a 'normal' person' comes off as incredibly insensitive.

Not to mention that Ciravel here seems to suffer from something a bit more complicated than just her legs not getting her from point A to B all the time.


Garretmander wrote:

I'm all for the cyberpunk style 'I don't feel like waiting a month for my broken arm to heal, chop it off an give me a laser cannon instead' kind of ridiculousness starfinder can do.

But just saying 'oh chop off your lower body and replace it with cybernetics so you can walk like a 'normal' person' comes off as incredibly insensitive.

Not to mention that Ciravel here seems to suffer from something a bit more complicated than just her legs not getting her from point A to B all the time.

Ciravel suffers from a disease, see the second part of my post.

The first part was more of a offshot of the discussion of Barsala needing the help of a entire community to afford a hand replacement which would be 100 credits.
I confess I have not read her backstory and don't know the economic situation of the character there, but at least for injuries I don't really see how costs are an issue, especially compared to the alternatives which are even more expensive.

Edit: Considering that Ciravel is not bound to the hoverchair and can walk with a cane on good days a form of power armor exoskeleton might also be a good solution for her, although the power armor options from the book are entirely unsuitable for that purpose.
Edit2: When you take the fatigue part literally a Endurance Module might help, although it is the most expensive option (slightly more expensive than a elite hoverchair)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Arguing that mental and physical conditions caused not by viruses and bacteria and other external factors, but internal ones, are solvable with a magical equivalent of an antibiotic is not a point in your favor.

The first time I was actually stunned by this kind of mindset was in pathfinder 1, serpent's skull, where a character could just get over a lifetime of alcoholism with just a cure disease potion.

I could quote rules at you about how disabilities do not have an association to a mental or physical disease track, but really... that's just besides the point. Addiction is not the same as an infections of bacteria, mold or virus. Assuming anything called a 'disease' at one point in time in the real world can be cured by the remove disease effect of an item is absurd.


13 people marked this as a favorite.

We don't need mechanical penalties for playing disabled character. People who want to play a disabled character doesn't need to be mechanically punished and made harder to keep up in level-based math-treadmill game.

Let them play their disable character and be able to freely represent themselves at the table rather than arbitarily punishing them for the crime of wanting to feel included. Especially when this is a game with so much diversity in body types and physiology to begin with.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

As someone who suffers from severe chronic pain, I would jump at the chance to cure it with the wave of a magic wand. I don't define myself by the pain, it isn't part of who I am as a person, it's something I suffer through. Existing with this pain is not part of any fantasy I have.

But, that's me. That's my experience, my perspective, my preference. This character doesn't exist to appeal to me, personally. It exists to appeal to people with different experiences, perspectives, & preferences to my own.

And that's fine. I personally believe that the best settings are the ones that allow for the most stories to be told within them. It doesn't harm my experience of the setting for someone else to be able to enjoy playing this type of character.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I don't think it's been pointed out yet that the idea of cybernetics is fanciful to us, and many of us feel we would jump at the chance to have it, when its actually a reality, it could be the sort of thing that many people would never want.

In Star Trek: TNG, there's an episode where a character asks Picard why it isn't standard for every Star Fleet officer to have their eyes replaced by a VISOR device like LaForge has. They have the resources, and by comparison regular eyes are "weak", so why not?

Picard doesn't actually answer, but in the moment the subtext is clear: cutting off a piece of yourself is something most people just don't want to do, even if they could get something "better" that's artificial.

EDIT: That's to say nothing of cultural or religious reasons why people might not feel cybernetics is right for them.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Ayup, and that’s nothing to say of compatibility and rejection for medicines and grafts.

For gameplay purposes your character’s body has 100% acceptance rates for replacement organs and grafts and using medicine, when outside of gameplay that wouldn’t be true no matter how advanced the science got.

And then as Big Lemon brought up.

Me for example, I can walk without assistance. But say Something happened to me and now I have the choice between using a wheelchair or chopping my legs off for prosthetics. People are presenting as jumping at the second option, but would you? I don’t know if could make that choice.

If I’m in wheelchair, I’d still have my legs, could still feel them, could still wiggle my toes.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

^. . . and maybe succeed in keeping them long enough to get them repaired to full working order with some future technological improvement.

Plus, you don't want to be dependent for basic life functions on something that is potentially hackable, if you can avoid it. Or to have to be at the mercy of the manufacturer for maintenance and possibly even some End User License Agreement where you basically have to sign part of your freedom over to them.


Ah, reminds me of Miles Vorkosigan...

Liberty's Edge

Can't we just let it be interesting that characters choose to stay disabled instead of squabbling over it? Seriously, even if there is some in-game treatment that can cure the fictional ailment that leaves them needing a mobility aid wouldn't it make them a more three-dimensional character by having them elect NOT to undergo procedures to replace an external piece of tech with prosthetics?

This stuff doesn't always have to be so complicated, the Iconic was obviously made to help raise the image of less well-represented people, we don't need to freaking sit in judgment about their motivations as to why they don't want to live otherwise even IF nearly every real live disabled person would jump at the opportunity to eliminate their injury/handicap. Having the options be available for those who want to tell stories with them hurts nobody, it's not like Paizo or anyone else is saying that people with real disabilities should be HAPPY they have them and refuse treatment when and where possible.

My mother has been disabled for nearly twenty years now and would replace darn near half of her body in a heartbeat if she could but that doesn't mean every person, especially complicated and likely traumatized fictional characters, does or should feel that way.

1 to 50 of 66 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Starfinder / Starfinder General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Meet the Iconics: Ciravel All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.