Lost Omens Mwangi Expanse: coming June 2021!

Michelle A.J. wrote:

If you're in it for the setting lore, I would recommend checking out Lost Omens: Legends. It is primarily a character book, but when many of those characters are heads of state or have the power to move literal mountains, there tends to be a lot of intersection there.

Thanks, but that's the sort of thing I'm least interested in of all, both from a standard of setting reading entertainment or even from a gameplay perspective, I'm afraid. It's just not something that grabs or inspires my interest - unlike, say, an entire source-book dedicated to pick-any-one of the other planets in the system or the previously unlooked at continents would.

Legends isn't an encyclopedic rogues gallery. It's a lore fest that will blow your mind, with tons of behind-the-scenes revelations about the world of Golarian. When Know Direction discussed Lost Omens Legends, Perram talked about how it made the world of Golarian real to him. Ryan discussed how it finally put much of what he didn't understand before into context.

Please note: I am biased because I wrote one of the sections. But I've never read another Pathfinder book with more delight. If you love lore, you need Legends.

Oh and back to the Mwangi Expanse: this is such a cool place to adventure! I can't wait to find out more about the anadis, gripplis and many regions in this book. (Full disclosure: still a biased author. But I am super excited to see how this book turns out!)

Your fellow lore junkie,
Hmm

Michelle A.J. wrote:

If you're in it for the setting lore, I would recommend checking out Lost Omens: Legends. It is primarily a character book, but when many of those characters are heads of state or have the power to move literal mountains, there tends to be a lot of intersection there.

Thanks, but that's the sort of thing I'm least interested in of all, both from a standard of setting reading entertainment or even from a gameplay perspective, I'm afraid. It's just not something that grabs or inspires my interest - unlike, say, an entire source-book dedicated to pick-any-one of the other planets in the system or the previously unlooked at continents would.

I know I'm talking with the choir here, but seriously, its not what you think it is, it is REALLY intricate lore and intrigue and politics book.

Like, it really fleshes out things that needed fleshing out. Like do you know what is Sun Orchid Elixir's creator's dealio or why he is still alive despite psychopomps hating immortals? Do you know how involved Pactmaster of Katapesh is in politics all over inner sea? What do you think you know about Jatembe or Nex or Geb? Have you heard of mother of modern medicine?

Also from lore entertainment factor its best lore book paizo has published if you ask me :p

Will there be character options related to the serpent folk? Ancestry, heritage, dedication feats?

Also goblins life span and lack of history means they are probably a lot more malleable than what we would find normal with humans. Enough positive interactions could quickly shift local goblin population behavior.

"Wait, I thought they were all impulsive pyromaniacs with a creepy song fetish?"

"Well, yes, the last generation was. We gave them all a few flasks of alchemist's fire and let them loose in the trashyards. (One of them actually survived, although she's a bit pyrophobic now...) Their kids, on the other hand, we've raised a bit differently. They still have do the creepy song thing. I think that's gonna take a few more generations to breed out..."

One of the recurring NPCs in my campaign is an elf anthropologist who has been studying a particular goblin family for generations.

One of the recurring NPCs in my campaign is an elf anthropologist who has been studying a particular goblin family for generations.

So, besides this thread convincing me to give in and get Legends at some point, this is really interesting to me. It's such a cool concept.

How does this anthropologist account for the influences brought about on the family by their own observations? Goblins are so culturally susceptible to change; how does the character ensure that their studies are relevant to more than this one family? Not trying to deconstruct or anything, just super curious.

How does this anthropologist account for the influences brought about on the family by their own observations? Goblins are so culturally susceptible to change; how does the character ensure that their studies are relevant to more than this one family? Not trying to deconstruct or anything, just super curious.

It's a case study but includes participant-observation at regular intervals.

kaid wrote:

Also goblins life span and lack of history means they are probably a lot more malleable than what we would find normal with humans. Enough positive interactions could quickly shift local goblin population behavior.

"Wait, I thought they were all impulsive pyromaniacs with a creepy song fetish?"

"Well, yes, the last generation was. We gave them all a few flasks of alchemist's fire and let them loose in the trashyards. (One of them actually survived, although she's a bit pyrophobic now...) Their kids, on the other hand, we've raised a bit differently. They still have do the creepy song thing. I think that's gonna take a few more generations to breed out..."

This approach kind of disturbs me, since it strongly implies the best thing to do with the existing bad tribes of goblins is to kill off the adults/kidnap the kids and raise them properly in your cultural traditions. Which has pretty awful historical overtones.

I don't really think anything has been "retconned" about Goblins, at least as far as PF1 going to PF2. A lot of them still do love fire, rancid food, and would rather have a pet rat than pet dog. The iconic goblin is even a bombardier. But now that it's frowned upon to kill goblins on sight, more and more of them get to branch out and and explore. They get to meet people and have experiences that they couldn't before.

I think it's perfectly reasonable, and necessary if we're going to pull away from viewing intelligent races as "monster by default."

Like do you know what is Sun Orchid Elixir's creator's dealio or why he is still alive despite psychopomps hating immortals?

Tukalo quietly pops another spider leg into his mouth, and then walks away whistling.

Those poor Anadi ;_;

How does this anthropologist account for the influences brought about on the family by their own observations? Goblins are so culturally susceptible to change; how does the character ensure that their studies are relevant to more than this one family? Not trying to deconstruct or anything, just super curious.

I picture some sort of hunting blind, perhaps disguised as a giant book, something that goblins would totally avoid looking too closely at, in which the elf anthropologist could hide.

But then, they're goblins. The elf could probably just paint himself green, put a watermelon on his head, and be mistaken for one of the family...

This approach kind of disturbs me, since it strongly implies the best thing to do with the existing bad tribes of goblins is to kill off the adults/kidnap the kids and raise them properly in your cultural traditions. Which has pretty awful historical overtones.

Yeah, more than 'strongly implies,' that was exactly the point, 'cause it was snarky graveyard humor about a fantasy construction, not a life goal involving real people.

The nature of "goblin bad ideas" historically leads to "a lot of dead goblins" (not necessarily the ones who had or boosted the bad ideas) and goblins are sapient beings so can process "well, that went badly..."

Honestly, the thing that really works for Goblins for me is that most Goblins in modern Golarion are victims- either of bad leadership from their elders or of some external entity using them as tools. Your standard level 1 goblin PC never had any input on this sort of thing for which "longshanks" will relentlessly judge them. Like everyone instinctively understands not to judge every 18 year old Wiscrani by the actions of the Thrunes, but the same standard is not extended to goblins.