July Update – AcP, Sanctioning, Spotlights and Conventions

Thursday, July 2, 2020

Pathfinder Extinction Curse Adventure Path: The Apocalypse Prophet book cover

OPM Musings

With two online conventions under our belt, we’ve got our processes down. That being said, there are still several more in the pipeline – Virtually Expo (to replace UK Games Expo) and Gen Con being the next on the horizon. Besides conventions, we have lots more going on in the OP realm, so I’m going to end my musings with a huge thank you to all our GMs and volunteers organizing games. As the world starts to resume in-person gatherings, I’ll note each community will decide when and how to approach in person gaming and request that all our players work with their organizers to take suggested precautions and keep our community safe, healthy, and happy.


Achievement Point Update

Another month, another few code rolls getting us ever closer to the final launch of the Achievement Points (AcP) system. For those keeping a close eye, you may have seen the rolls last week. They fixed our outstanding issues but had a few unintended problems that we needed to resolve before we could keep the roll live. We’ve now resolved character number issues, points accrued from Premier and Premier Plus events, GM credits, and how boons generate from the system, as well as a few other back end items. This is in line to be resolved after our long weekend and we hope to have the final deployment soon.

This brings into question the free rebuild boon that is currently on the site. I said previously that we would remove the boon two weeks after AcP went live. Given that we are less than 30 days from the release of the Advanced Players Guide, I want to amend my commentary. We will extend the date of the free rebuild to 31 August. This allows us enough time to get the APG sanctioned and for players to use the rebuild to include options from that book.

We’ve made a change to the rebuild boon, however. One of the code rolls gave the ability to customize the boons beyond the one sentence preview. With this live, we are adjusting the rebuild boon to the style we will use with all other AcP purchases. The full text of the boon outlines the parameters for rebuild, including a all changes are final once character is played and a slight recalculation of the gold your character has post-rebuild, to account for any consumables you have purchased & used as well as a favorable resale value of items. This is intended to make the rebuild easier: rather than having to calculate the value of every item you have purchased and used since creating the character, you will now simply have 85% of the gold you have earned during the character’s career to that point. This revised rebuild went live today. Any unapplied rebuilds that don’t this text will still be honored. In that case, the player should utilize the 85% rule when rebuilding. Players who rebuilt characters prior to this blog do not need to make adjustments to their characters. In all cases, a copy of the boon should be included in the character’s chronicle sheet history.

Another note on AcP. Most of the point totals have settled. You can review your totals in your “My Organized Play” section of Paizo.com. If you are seeing errors in your AcP count, make sure to click the “Refresh Points” button on the GM/Event Coordinator tab of your My Organized Play page. If there are still errors, check to make sure all your games are reported. If they aren’t, please reach out to the coordinator/local venture officer with your chronicles to get the game entered into the system. If all games are accounted for, then email pfsreportingerrors@paizo.com with as much detail as you can about the errors so that we can take a look and make adjustments as needed. This email should also be used for any other reporting errors if your GM or event coordinator is unable to fix them.

One final piece of AcP. We’ve solicited a list of frequently asked questions and are working on putting together answers. We hope to have this done before it goes live and will post a link in the comments as well as distribute the link to our community.

Gen Con Online

Our next major online convention is just weeks away! Gen Con Online will be July 30-August 2, and we currently have nearly 900 games on offer for our four programs. The event catalog will be available for preview on July 6 on Gen Con’s website. For GMs who haven’t signed up yet, we invite you to register for the OPF Major Events discord, as there are still opportunities to volunteer; for more information on how to play or GM games, visit last week’s blog post. Next week we’ll be previewing the new scenario releases you’ll see at Gen Con Online.

Sanctioning

This month, we released the sanctioning for the Age of Ashes Adventure Path for Pathfinder (second edition). Players and GMs may now report their sessions and earn credit for the AP. Additionally, last week we announced the winner of the Battle of the Pantheons contest, and their pantheon has officially been sanctioned as well!

Going forward, we have plans to get Near Space sanctioned for Starfinder Society and the Advanced Player’s Guide sanctioned for Pathfinder Society before the end of the month. There may be more, but these two are the next ones on our radar.

Volunteer Recognition.

No new campaign coins have been awarded since PaizoCon Online.

We did announce our Order of the Wayfinder for 2019. We usually announce this recipient at Gen Con or PaizoCon, but we held it last year to try and do it in person. Unfortunately, our lack of travel thwarted our plans, so we announced it virtually at the most recent Venture-Captain gathering when the recipient was in attendance.

The Order of the Wayfinder is a step above the Campaign Coin and is given to one person a year in recognition of their efforts on behalf of some aspect of the Organized Play Program. Their activities support the actions of the entire community and make a huge difference in the quality of our programming. The award comes with a wayfinder (compass) with an engraved plaque and a new organized play number in the 100’s.

Past recipients included Bob Jonquet, Auke Teeninga, and Alastair Rigg.

Please join me in recognizing Alexander Lenz as the 2019 recipient for his coordination of the Additional Resources Task Force. The AR Task Force is a group of individuals drawn from the volunteer organizers who review published materials for inclusion in the relevant organized play campaign and make recommendations to the Organized Play team. Without their input, completing our sanctioning documents would be a much different task. Thank you, Alex, for the years you’ve spent leading the Task Force!

Stars, Novas & Glyphs

We have no new GMs to recognize yet, but part of the updates rolling out with AcP will also allow our venture-captains to easily and automatically provide evaluations to GMs who request them. This will help us automate the process and get our top-tier GMs their badges and recognition sooner!

Convention Listing

Many of the conventions planned for the upcoming months have needed to cancel or postpone due to shelter in place orders, but several others moved their events online. We’ve listed the status for each event, but please check their websites or notices for any last-minute changes.

ConventionLocationStart DateStatus
Pittsburgh Con Online Pittsburgh, PA 7/17/2020 Online
OGC Online 2020 Online 7/17/2020 Online
Farmageddon VII Farmer City, IL 7/17/2020 Online
InterNetGalatic ConQuest 2020 Online 7/24/2020 Online
Ropecon 2020 Finland 7/24/2020 Online
Gen Con Online Online 7/30/2020 Online
Virtually UK (UK Games Expo) Birmingham, England 8/21/2020 Online
Shadowcon UK 2020 Shepherdstown, WV 10/30/2020 Postponed

We have GM spots available for both Gen Con Online and Virtually UK, click the links to learn more!

One final note on conventions: the team has decided to award Premier Plus status to all conventions that report 75 or more tables in their After-Action Report. As a result, you may see an increase in your AcP if you played at a qualifying convention.

Until next time—Explore, Report, Cooperate!

Alex Speidel
Organized Play Associate

Tonya Woldridge
Organized Play Manager

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Conventions Organized Play Pathfinder Society Starfinder Society
1 to 50 of 76 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Phoenix

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Huzzah!

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

I'm so excited for the AcP system!

I'm also happy for the decision to extend the rebuild boon with the intent to push out APG sanctioning out before it goes away <3

1/5 * Venture-Agent, Online—PbP

An excellent update. Thank you.

**

Let me rephrase:

In 30 days, PFS players, you have 30 days to get your act together.

Yes?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Weird flex, but okay.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

60

The Blog wrote:
We will extend the date of the free rebuild to 31 August.

Scarab Sages 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank you for extending the free rebuild past the (expected) sanctioning date of the APG.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yay! Yay for Achievement points. Yay for boons. I am so happy that you are extending the rebuild past the APG date. One of my characters has been kept as a strict GM Baby so that I could eyeball Oracle before making her! Thank you so much!

Congratulations to Alexander Lenz! Well deserved!

A question... (And one you probably cannot answer yet, but I am still going to ask it, because it is burning in my brain.)

One of our upcoming iconics, Korakai, is a tengu. Will tengus be listed as a common race in the APG? Otherwise, it will be a bit weird having a pregen whose race is not available for new players making characters. I hope so! I love Korakai! James Case did such a good job writing him up!

Sovereign Court 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Kent

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Congratulations Alex! You put so much work into every Task Force Review and have earned this honor!

Hmm wrote:
One of our upcoming iconics, Korakai, is a tengu. Will tengus be listed as a common race in the APG? Otherwise, it will be a bit weird having a pregen whose race is not available for new players making characters. I hope so! I love Korakai! James Case did such a good job writing him up!

I mean...the Fox Form feat wasn't legal in 1st edition but our Iconic Witch was clearly a fox form kitsune and I refuse to believe otherwise.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I mean, iconics are known to break the rules now and then.

2/5 5/5 *

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Quote:
One of my characters has been kept as a strict GM Baby so that I could eyeball Oracle before making her! Thank you so much!

Solely an observation, assuming this GM baby credit places her above 1st level currently, but you might be better served keeping her a GM baby depending on how much you intend to play her before APG is released.

She currently has N gold. If she plays one scenario and uses K gold worth of consumables beyond School Items while earning M gold from scenarios played, then unless K > 0.85*(N+M), you're losing a significant amount of gold.

I think this rebuild serves those who have been actively playing a given character (+/- how efficient you have been with your consumable consumption).

2/5 5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Because this is fun and relaxing for me, I used the 85% rebuild gold to try to calculate how the OP team expects players to use consumables.

In case math ruins your fun:

Assumption: You're playing scenarios--no quests, modules, or APs.
Assumption: 9 treasure bundles is the average or expected (this has been hotly debated, that debate is not the point)
Assumption: You're purchasing the cheapest but highest level consumables available for your level.
Assumption: You're succeeding your Earn Income check 50% of the time with no critical failures or critical successes.

It turned out to be fairly equitable by level: 1.5 consumables (beyond school items) per scenario or 4.5 consumables (beyond school items) per level. Level 2 to 3 was the only notable deviance at 1.9 consumables per scenario or 5.7 consumables for the level.

If you're spending and consuming that much in consumables or more, then you're breaking even or doing better on the rebuild.

The raw costs for each level are:
2nd (12 xp) = 5.778 gp
3rd (24 xp) = 14.796 gp
4th (36 xp) = 30.582 gp
5th (48 xp) = 57.114 gp
6th (60 xp) = 98.658 gp

Dark Archive 3/5

Have we seen a list of what the ACP boons will be?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This ACP system and rebuild boon is great as I want to use it to fix/update a couple of my characters with this. But, I am completely confused by the gold stuff mentioned for this rebuild and I don't understand how it applies to me, at all.

Also, I went into the page and purchased the rebuild boon, and saw that there was something to download, but my computer did not recognize what file type it is. What is this and what do I need to open this file? If you haven't figured it out already. I am a completely analogue and in-person player with no online play experience or know-how.

Sovereign Court 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Kent

Ashanderai wrote:

This ACP system and rebuild boon is great as I want to use it to fix/update a couple of my characters with this. But, I am completely confused by the gold stuff mentioned for this rebuild and I don't understand how it applies to me, at all.

Also, I went into the page and purchased the rebuild boon, and saw that there was something to download, but my computer did not recognize what file type it is. What is this and what do I need to open this file? If you haven't figured it out already. I am a completely analogue and in-person player with no online play experience or know-how.

Right click the file. Rename. Rename it anything as long as it ends in .pdf

2/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Otto O'Read wrote:
Have we seen a list of what the ACP boons will be?

This blog post from February has a list, but I don't know if there have been changes since then.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Did I read correctly that the APG will be sanctioned before the end of the month,aka before the book comes out? I'm hoping to have it sanctioned for Gencon so I can play a Ratfolk Witch or an Orc Druid Mauler, but dont want tonget my hopes too high just yet.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Dustin Knight wrote:
Ashanderai wrote:

This ACP system and rebuild boon is great as I want to use it to fix/update a couple of my characters with this. But, I am completely confused by the gold stuff mentioned for this rebuild and I don't understand how it applies to me, at all.

Also, I went into the page and purchased the rebuild boon, and saw that there was something to download, but my computer did not recognize what file type it is. What is this and what do I need to open this file? If you haven't figured it out already. I am a completely analogue and in-person player with no online play experience or know-how.

Right click the file. Rename. Rename it anything as long as it ends in .pdf

Ah, awesome! Thanks!

Scarab Sages 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ashanderai wrote:

This ACP system and rebuild boon is great as I want to use it to fix/update a couple of my characters with this. But, I am completely confused by the gold stuff mentioned for this rebuild and I don't understand how it applies to me, at all.

Also, I went into the page and purchased the rebuild boon, and saw that there was something to download, but my computer did not recognize what file type it is. What is this and what do I need to open this file? If you haven't figured it out already. I am a completely analogue and in-person player with no online play experience or know-how.

Yeah, there’s a definite downside to the 85% gold thing if you aren’t completely changing your character. If you just want to adjust attributes or swap out a background or something small like that, which isn’t possible using retraining, you end up paying a 15% tax in order to be able to do so. Which is weird, but ultimately probably not too bad. I feel like in a few instances getting 85% gold will end up in someone having slightly more than they would have from selling things back. In most cases, I think it will end up in having less gold than they would just selling items back.

If I end up using a rebuild on my Champion, it’s going to be because there’s a background I want to change into or that I need something as a prereq for an archetype that retraining can’t get me. It’s doubtful that I would change any equipment, and as things stand right now, I haven’t spent any gold on consumables on the character. I’m pretty sure with the school items and no way to use scrolls that I probably won’t ever spend much on consumables. And I don’t really know why I would ever sell anything back under normal circumstances.

But it’s good to know that the 85% thing doesn’t apply to people who used the boon before the text appeared on it. That would have been a mess.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Congratulation Alex.... now get back to work I want a lot of things from the APG ^^

Dark Archive 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:
Did I read correctly that the APG will be sanctioned before the end of the month,aka before the book comes out? I'm hoping to have it sanctioned for Gencon so I can play a Ratfolk Witch or an Orc Druid Mauler, but dont want tonget my hopes too high just yet.

No:

Quote:
We will extend the date of the free rebuild to 31 August. This allows us enough time to get the APG sanctioned and for players to use the rebuild to include options from that book.

APG seems to be coming out at the end of the month, that is, at the time of the GenCon. It's pretty much impossible that it would be -immediately- sanctioned. However, the free rebuild boon was extended by a month, from the end of July to the end of August, so 1 month after the release.

Apparently, they hope to get the APG sanctioned in a month, but I think that seems maybe a bit too optimistic, given the time it normally takes for stuff to get sanctioned.

Not to mention that previous blog posts have led me to believe that they'll maybe rotate the races which are available through ACP instead of everything being available all the time, so even if orc (probably not but you'll never know?) or ratfolk (Probably yeah?) get sanctioned, you may end up waiting for a month or a couple to get the previous races out of rotation and add those into the AcP rewards. Not 100% sure though.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

2 people marked this as a favorite.

We're working hard on the APG AR review, but it's phenomenally crunchy.

I don't know if an official plan for a sanctioning date has been made. APG release is almost certainly intended to be ]on GenCon. So even if it's sanctioned on launch, that means you're trying to digest 270 pages of crunch and rebuilding your character while at the same time you're rushing from slot to slot.

If I were you, I wouldn't try to do that, I don't think it would be really enjoyable. You could play a level 1 APG character where the rebuilding stakes aren't so high. Meanwhile, for your higher level characters, you can take your time to make plans for a proper rebuild over the course of August.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I guess it depends, if someone has been working on a build that is based on mostly CRB options, but they want that character to be an adorable ancestry from the APG... like orcs for example... sure that could likely work even if you ignore the actual rules and ancestry feats for orcs.

On the same token, it might be a better idea to take some more time absorbing the rules for the new classes and archetype, you really to not want to rebuild a character into a tiefling gnome swashbuckler multiclass rogue without a solid understanding of those options.

And just consider that many of your GMs at Gencon will have been busy prepping their tables, and might not be able to answer all of your potential questions yet.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Blake's Tiger wrote:
Quote:
One of my characters has been kept as a strict GM Baby so that I could eyeball Oracle before making her! Thank you so much!

Solely an observation, assuming this GM baby credit places her above 1st level currently, but you might be better served keeping her a GM baby depending on how much you intend to play her before APG is released.

She currently has N gold. If she plays one scenario and uses K gold worth of consumables beyond School Items while earning M gold from scenarios played, then unless K > 0.85*(N+M), you're losing a significant amount of gold.

I think this rebuild serves those who have been actively playing a given character (+/- how efficient you have been with your consumable consumption).

Yeah... I realized that. She'll stay a GM Baby for now! This is a character concept whose mechanics have been tough to nail down.

Sovereign Court 4/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Kent

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lau Bannenberg wrote:

We're working hard on the APG AR review, but it's phenomenally crunchy.

I don't know if an official plan for a sanctioning date has been made. APG release is almost certainly intended to be ]on GenCon. So even if it's sanctioned on launch, that means you're trying to digest 270 pages of crunch and rebuilding your character while at the same time you're rushing from slot to slot.

If I were you, I wouldn't try to do that, I don't think it would be really enjoyable. You could play a level 1 APG character where the rebuilding stakes aren't so high. Meanwhile, for your higher level characters, you can take your time to make plans for a proper rebuild over the course of August.

I agree that players who want to use APG stuff at Gencon are better off making new level 1 characters.

But many players will get the book earlier due to pre-order subscriptions.

And we had Starfinder players making their own mechanics the same Gencon Starfinder came out. Making a level 1 character for a whole new system is way more challenging than making a level 4-5 character using new rules.

And lots of players want level 1 Lost Omens World Guide/Character Guide options that were unavailable until we got the AcP system online. Some players just want to see what's on the AcP (and don't follow the blog that carefully) and are waiting until the full lauch of the AcP before making any final decisions.


Well I wasn't planning on rebuilding someone for Gencon. I just wanna make a plant druid named Stump who has a Leshy familiar named Twig who is a Mauler. Starting at level one. Druid doesnt have too many feats for the plant druid, so this works well for my concept. Was hoping to use him mostly during the Con to level him up lol.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

"Mauler"?

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.

APG Archetypes:

Acrobat
Archaeologist
Archer
Assassin
Bastion
Beastmaster
Blessed One
Bounty Hunter
Cavalier
Celebrity
Dandy
Dragon Disciple
Dual Weapon Warrior
Duelist
Eldritch Archer
Familiar Master
Gladiator
Herbalist
Horizon Walker
Linguist
Loremaster
Marshal
Martial Artist
Mauler
Medic
Pirate
Poisoner
Ritualist
Scout
Scroll Trickster
Scrounger
Sentinel
Shadowdancer
Snarecrafter
Talisman Dabbler
Vigilante
Viking
Weapon Improviser

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Nefreet wrote:
"Mauler"?

It's not just for familiars anymore.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Have physical books already dropped?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:
Have physical books already dropped?

No, but the list of archetypes that is in the book was in a screen shot that dropped during a PaizoCon Online panel about the APG. The developers also discussed a lot of the content that will be in it. You can find that video on the Paizo Twitch channel page.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Gotcha.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Congratulations Alexander!

Nefreet wrote:
Gotcha.

Here's a list of APG confirmations from the stream if you're curious about anything else.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Do you know how to find that on Twitch? I can't seem to locate this panel at all, though I could find the YouTube video.

Hmm

Grand Lodge 4/5 * Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver

We don't need a boon to rebuild a level 1 PC that hasn't played at 2nd level, right? What about "GM Credit Only" PCs beyond level 2? Can they be rebuilt without a boon?

Also, what are "code rolls"?

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Code roll is Paizo's terminology for launching a new version of the code running their website. Other places might call it an 'update', a 'release', a 'deployment', 'push', etc Lots of terms used throughout the industry. I hadn't heard code roll before, but I'm guessing its short for 'code roll out'

2/5 5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Hmm wrote:

Do you know how to find that on Twitch? I can't seem to locate this panel at all, though I could find the YouTube video.

Hmm

Here you go!

2/5 5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Christian Dragos wrote:

We don't need a boon to rebuild a level 1 PC that hasn't played at 2nd level, right? What about "GM Credit Only" PCs beyond level 2? Can they be rebuilt without a boon?

Also, what are "code rolls"?

These are boon-style rebuilds for characters outside of the normal rebuild limits: played a scenario above 1st level.

Guide wrote:
Until you play a game in which your character has 12 or more XP, you can freely rebuild your character completely except for Reputation earned and character number.

Don't forget that retraining is available for feats (archetype dedications and multiclass dedications are feats) and skills. All it takes is 7 days of your Downtime after a scenario.

1/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Christian Dragos wrote:
What about "GM Credit Only" PCs beyond level 2? Can they be rebuilt without a boon?

Hmm, this is tricky. I want to say that you don't need to rebuild because in my mind until you play with the character nothing is locked in. But you *do* get downtime! So I'm not sure what to make of that

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

3 people marked this as a favorite.

This is why you should probably just record the dice rolls you made for your Downtime activities, and then when you sit down to build your character and apply their Chronicles, everything can be done at once.

2/5 5/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:
This is why you should probably just record the dice rolls you made for your Downtime activities, and then when you sit down to build your character and apply their Chronicles, everything can be done at once.

Yes. There's a distinction between assigning and applying. It's probably in the guide now. Otherwise, I'll never find the post. I think Nefreet's suggestion is a good one.

4/5 *

... Why the 15% charge of overall wealth for character rebuilds? This likely won't heavily effect me immediately, because I've already done a couple of my rebuilds, but for both of those, I used this primarily to change a few aspects of my character I didn't like and to use options from books that weren't previously available. In both cases, this literally didn't affect my equipment at all. And given I both was low enough level as to not have needed to "upgrade" things and the fact that pathfinder school items were the expendables I used, this would have reduced my gold significantly for no reason...

PFS1 used a system that allowed sell-back at 100% of existing items. This seems like a much better way to do rebuilds, as then the character has spent what they've spent and used what they've used, and they can trade in existing equipment where applicable but aren't punished if they don't need to do that. Even if you had the sellback rate by 85%, shrug, but this just seems like a very odd change to make with really no rationalization as to where that number came from.

EDIT: It's hard for me to say if 15% make sense at later levels.... but what was this number based on? Care to show your math?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Someone else guesstimated the math earlier up thread and it seemed rather compelling (to me, at least). I doubt Leadership will release their reasons.

Mind you, it averages out. Some people who spent heavily on consumables will actually get more back from a rebuild. Some people like yourself will lose more.

But the average player will come close to breaking even.

4/5 *

Nefreet wrote:

Someone else guesstimated the math earlier up thread and it seemed rather compelling (to me, at least). I doubt Leadership will release their reasons.

Mind you, it averages out. Some people who spent heavily on consumables will actually get more back from a rebuild. Some people like yourself will lose more.

But the average player will come close to breaking even.

Thanks, didn't spot it because of hidden text. I don't find that logic that compelling, mostly because I don't tend to see people use a lot of consumables beyond those found in-game and ones from their training. I could see 1.5 per level, but 1.5 per scenario seems mighty high.

Beyond this, I just don't get the logic for punishing some players and rewarding others arbitrarily... A sell-back system doesn't seem more complicated, and it means you pay for what you use. If I'm building a character with the intent of rebuilding later (something one might do if they think that a particular build will only be effective at a certain point), I'm essentially incentivized to blow through consumables as much as I can early on, as I'll be getting that gold back later.

2/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston

1 person marked this as a favorite.

One thought I had, is that it also might be an effort to encourage people to use the downtime retraining options more. Even a heavily optimized crafter (or earned income w/ feats & boons to do on-level dcs instead of level -2) would still rather have a couple adventures loss of downtime -- to swap a couple of feats or re-assign pathfinder training points, etc -- instead paying 15% for those changes.

Now this doesn't help when you want to swap in a new ancestry, but basically leave everything else the same (which I know is one of your particular use cases).

4/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Eric Nielsen wrote:

One thought I had, is that it also might be an effort to encourage people to use the downtime retraining options more. Even a heavily optimized crafter (or earned income w/ feats & boons to do on-level dcs instead of level -2) would still rather have a couple adventures loss of downtime -- to swap a couple of feats or re-assign pathfinder training points, etc -- instead paying 15% for those changes.

Now this doesn't help when you want to swap in a new ancestry, but basically leave everything else the same (which I know is one of your particular use cases).

I'd kinda assume the ACP cost is the "cost" associated with this that incentivizes that sort of thing, not the gold cost, which is supposed to be, in theory, neutral. I realize this isn't true for the free rebuilds, but for the future ones that have ACP costs (some scaling) associated with them, you're fairly limited in how many of these you'll purchase.

Dark Archive 2/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

+1 for 100% sellback and not 85%. I don't know about you guys, but the only consumables I ever use in 2e are the ones provided for free at the beginning of the session from the Scrolls/Swords/Spells schools. Why would I want/have to pay a 15% wealth tax simply because I wanted to play my PC up to the 2 week cutoff window instead of grab a rebuild boon 2 weeks ago and sit on it for "who knows how long" until the ACP system that was supposed to be launched ~1 year ago suddenly started working. For all any of know the ACP system could have been delayed another year! Its like 1 step forward 2 steps backward.

For me random wealth tax makes this a no go. I'll have a bunch of PCs stuck with their builds and no/very little season 1 scenarios to play any of the cool options from the APG. Is it really the intent of the nebulous PFS gods to de-incentivize using new APG stuff?

Clearly people should know what they spent on consumable items because they have an inventory of items which will exclude the consumables they spent. It should be rather easy to say 'you don't get back any consumable item costs spent' with a rebuild so your total gold will be:

TOTAL GOLD FOR REBUILD = TOTAL REMAINING GOLD + TOTAL INVENTORY 100% GOLD COST

(i.e., if you spent 25 gp on consumables that aren't there you'll be 25gp short the total chronicle gold).

Let us not forget that some of us just want to use already sanctioned materials (i.e., an Iruxi/Leshy/Hobgoblin) and WOULD have used them on new characters MONTHS ago if the ACP system worked prior to using up non-repeatable scenarios. Half my PCs were earmarked to just be the same build but with a previously sanctioned new race (maybe a swap of 1 or 2 ancestry feats is what this will amount to but no change in inventory).

Just a weird decision from the powers at be.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Phoenix

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sounds like the system works as intended.

2/5 5/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I think a lot of us, myself included, have been trained to work frugally in a race to get weapon and armor upgrades. When we do buy consumables, we think of them as last resort items.

I don’t have a solution for us—other than changing our working paradigm—just the observation.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

4 people marked this as a favorite.

It does suck that I dragged my feet in grabbing that boon for one of my characters. I just wanted a feat changed. Had I known ahead of time there was going to be an extra cost ("tax" isn't really the right word because taxes pay for other services), I would have grabbed it sooner.

But now I'll just use the Retraining system.

I do somewhat agree that the AcP cost should be enough. That's an extremely limited resource for most players, and prevents them from using AcP on other fun things like uncommon races.

To have the 15% cost on top of the AcP cost seems a bit much to me. But not enough that I'll rally against it if it's what Leadership thinks is best.

1 to 50 of 76 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Paizo Blog: July Update – AcP, Sanctioning, Spotlights and Conventions All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.