Such a Lovely Place, Such a Lovely Face

Friday, August 16, 2019

Portrait picture of a woman with angled markings on her forehead and chin, shoulder length dark hair and dark eyes. She wears a bandana across her forehead and red feathers are placed on each side of her head, tucked in.
Illustration by Mary Jane Pajaron
Portrait of a woman with light brown eyes and black braided hair, secured in blue and brownish red beads.
Illustration by Valeria Lutfullina

One of the strengths of the games set in the Age of Lost Omens is the diversity of setting. From classic staples like dragonslaying and piracy to outlandish adventures fighting robot scorpions in a rugged wasteland, no matter what genre of game you want to play, you can likely find a spot on Golarion to suit your interest. With that diversity of setting comes a diversity of people. Every nation has its own vibrant cultures, traditions, and ethnicities—not just among humanity, but among all of the ancestries found within the Inner Sea region. In Golarion, the home of the shattered clans of the Five Kings Mountains, the tunnel-dwelling Kulnett of Geb, the dragon-worshiping Mwangi tribes of the Mbe'ke and the Taralu, and the completely subterranean grondaksen, there's no such thing as playing "just" a dwarf.

Portrait of a woman with long dark hair and black eyes. She wears swirling earrings with arrows poking out from one side. She wears a red scarf with gold edges, folded neatly, and a chunky necklace of stones in different sizes and shapes. Her upper right arm can be seen and has a hexagonal pattern on it.
Illustration by Valeria Lutfullina

At least, that's always been the theory. In practice, many of these disparate cultures haven't gotten the setting support they deserved. That's why when we set out to decide on the topic for the second of our new World Guides, Luis Loza quickly suggested a book that outlined the people of Golarion, especially those not well-covered in the Core Rulebook. In the Lost Omens Character Guide, we provide the information and mechanics to allow our players to create character concepts from all over the world. Just as importantly, we also sought to provide a more focused vision of what these people looked like!

The Lost Omens Character Guide makes heavy use of a rules concept introduced to the Rarity system in the Lost Omens World Guide: Access. Many of the ancestry feats in this book have a specific basis in the distinct traditions of various cultures and ethnicities, and as such, are listed as Uncommon rules options. The Access entry on these feats lists the criteria that allow a character to gain automatic access to a rules element. For example, the Erutaki people have a tradition of creating magical scrimshaw constructs; an Erutaki PC that meets the prerequisites can gain immediate access to the feat that represents that ability below, while another PC would have to learn the skill from an Erutaki carver or otherwise gain GM permission to take the feat.


TUPILAQ CARVER.  FEAT 1.
Prerequisites: You have a spellcasting class feature with the divine or primal tradition 
Access Erutaki ethnicity.
You know the truth behind old stories that tell of sending a fetish of bone and sinew to seek vengeance. These old magics allow you to conjure constructs with ease. Add the summon construct spell to your spell list. The constructs you summon have a distinct ivory scrimshaw appearance, and if you include a drop of blood, lock of hair, or other portion of a creature's body as part of the spell's material component, the summoned construct gains a +4 status bonus to Perception checks to sense or locate that creature.
​ ​

That's not to say there aren't a few ancestry feats that are entirely dependent on heritage. For example, those of Nidalese ancestry can find the blessings of Zon-Kuthon manifesting as they grow stronger, granting the ability to see in darkness and other shadowy powers. Since these feats come as a direct result of Zon-Kuthon's pact with the people of Nidal, only Nidalese characters can take them—while a PC could try to gain access to such feats by seeking out Zon-Kuthon himself, as the three Kellid horselords that founded Nidal once did, such a bargain would likely have far more dramatic results than a few extra human ancestry feats.

Kulenett dwarf with leather goggles and mask, thick facial hair. Darker skinned Mbe'ke dwarf with wire framed glasses. A white scarf is wrapped around the head, leaving the top of the head exposed. He wears what looks like a heavy red robe with an animal pattern on it. Female Pahmet dwarf, long wavy hair pulled back behind her ear. She wears a green top with purple striping on the sleeves and a gold chevron necklace. Vahird dwarf, black shoulder length hair on the sides of the head but only a light bit of fuzz on the top. They are wearing a plain white shirt and appear to have a dagger on a braided rope around their neck.

Illustrations by Katerina Kirillova

Inside the Lost Omens Character Guide, you'll find more heritages and ancestry feats for each of the Core ancestries that help to support a variety of ethnicities, both new and old. For instance, we've mentioned the mountain-dwelling Mbe'ke tribe of dwarves that live in the Mwangi Expanse in passing—we've now provided a new dwarven heritage to grant those dwarves an affinity with the dragons that they worship, but can also be used to represent dwarves with a connection to azers, the fiery god Angradd, or other elemental forces!

ELEMENTAL HEART DWARF
Whether through a connection to Torag's forge, the azers of the Plane of Fire, or another source, you can exude a burst of energy. Mbe'ke and Taralu dwarves of the Mwangi Expanse believe this heritage is a gift from dragons or elemental spirits. Choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. Once chosen, this can't be changed. You gain the Energy Emanation activity.
ENERGY EMANATION [two-actions]
Evocation, Primal
Frequency once per day
Energy bursts forth from your body. You deal 1d6 damage of your chosen type to all adjacent creatures (basic Reflex save using your class DC or spell DC, whichever is higher). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, this damage increases by 1d6.
Slender elf in a long thick cloak with ornate shoulder pads.

Illustration by Rogier van de Beek

In addition to new ethnicities, the Lost Omens Character Guide offers a more detailed look at some familiar cultures within the setting. For instance, inside this book lies the true name of the Snowcaster elves, as well as a number of secrets about their true origins. Of course, this knowledge only raises more questions, such as whether the events that created the modern-day culture of the Snowcasters are also connected to a peculiar oddity of the elven goddess Findeladlara. As an aside, the Snowcasters have always had a distinct look, but when ordering art for the Lost Omens Character Guide, I asked for a specific addition to their silhouette—a pair of antler-like blades that the elves can quickly combine with other gear to transform into skis or a sled. These allow the Snowcasters to move rapidly over snow and ice, and also makes them somewhat intimidating at a distance, which might explain why many outsiders claim Snowcaster elves are demon-worshipping cannibals.

To those of you who love multiclassing, there is also a new elven heritage available to any elf of a certain age that might be of interest:

Ancient Elf.
In your long life, you've dabbled in many paths and many styles. Choose a class other than your own. You gain the multiclass dedication feat for that class, even though you don't meet its level prerequisite. You must still meet its other prerequisites to gain the feat.

But wait, there's more!

A monkey pirate goblin!

Illustration by Klaher Baklaher

With gnomes, we're taking the opportunity to emphasize that not all ancestries view ethnicity in the same way as humans do. Gnomes especially tend to possess a riot of unusual hair, eye, and skin colors that can often seem disconnected from genetics entirely. When gnomes speak of their ethnicities, they are usually referring to a natural affinity toward different kinds of magic that a gnome might possess—due to their souls' abrupt disconnect from their ancestral home in the First World, gnomes are more affected by nearby sources of magic when they are growing up. For example, gnomes who grow up near sources of divine power have more affinity with magic that changes reality or creates figments, while the unsettling fell gnomes have a stronger connection to occult magic or dark fey.

While goblins often receive little distinction from adventurers beyond what color splatter they leave behind, the recent slowing of humanoid/goblin aggressions has allowed the differences between goblin cultures to become better understood. The forest goblins of the Chitterwood lived through the Goblinblood Wars (more accurately, many of them did not live), which has given them a different approach to life when compared to the wilder goblins of Varisia. A relatively quick goblin lifespan and a traditional worship of Lamashtu means that goblins can also adapt to new environments very quickly, leading to some startling physiological differences between certain goblin ethnicities. The frost goblins of the north have blue skin and occasionally blue fur, but the most striking ethnicity of goblin is likely the monkey goblin, which possesses a long tail! A heritage for monkey goblins is provided for those who wish to play these unusual offshoots:

TAILED GOBLIN.
You have a powerful tail, likely because you descend from a community of monkey goblins. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Athletics checks to Climb, you gain Combat Climber as a bonus feat, and you reduce the number of free hands required to Climb or Trip by one.
Othoban halfing with dark swept-back hair is wearing green vertically striped pants that stop at the calf and is barefoot. Under a red vest and brown and gold belt is a white and red striped shirt.

Illustration by Emile Denis

Finally, we have halfling ethnicities, including a number of new cultural groups that don't simply copy the traditions of the taller humans around them. I'll leave most of them for those who pick up the book, but I'd be remiss not to mention Luis Loza's favorite of the bunch: the Othoban halflings, who he fondly refers to as "Time Halflings." What are time halflings? The answer involves the city of Xin-Edasseril and the events of the Return of the Runelords adventure path—after all, you didn't think there were only humans in that city, did you?

Tune in next week when we'll be here to talk about some of the new ancestries that will be appearing in the Lost Omens Character Guide!

Eleanor Ferron
Developer

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Tags: Lost Omens Character Guide Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
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I mean, we could also fix natural ambition and ancient elf by giving Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings (and others) something similarly desirable.

I mean, a downside of ancient elf is that this locks you out of any other dedication until you take 3 feats in the multiclass. So if you wanted to be a swordlord or a student of perfection or w/e you actively want to avoid taking it.

Silver Crusade

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We'll, I was wondering how long it would take until power creep reared its head. I guess I was optimistic hoping for a year


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Well, heritages are supposed to provide tangible mechanical benefits.

So I guess the question is whether "a free level 2 feat" is worlds better than stuff like darkvision, cold/heat/poison resistance, a cantrip of your choice, a circumstance bonus you'd otherwise be hard pressed to make reliable, etc.

I'm not entirely convinced Ancient Elf is much more powerful than natural ambition. Since multiclass dedication feats have a downside. Psychologically it's really appealing though, since the biggest hurdle to multiclassing I find is "man, that dedication feat just doesn't give very much, does it."

Liberty's Edge

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Natural Ambition is not a Heritage, it's an Ancestry Feat, which are generally more powerful.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Natural Ambition is not a Heritage, it's an Ancestry Feat, which are generally more powerful.

Are they? I was under the impression that Heritages were supposed to be more powerful than Ancestry feats, since a lot of ancestry feats are like "you can talk to burrowing creatures" or "you are trained in some skills" or "access to ancestral weapons" which don't hold a candle to like "darkvision."

Natural Ambition stands out since it's the one ancestry feat at level 1 that's incredibly powerful.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

This is a great post. I'm very excited for the book

But now I'm a little anxious because I might have to save my first PFS character (halfling wizard/cleric) until I get the time halfling! :-|

Paizo Employee Developer

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Well, the information on the Othoban halflings is purely flavor. There's not an Othoban-related heritage nor is there an Othoban-related ancestry feat. If you can roleplay a time-displaced halfling who is particularly curious and keen on dressing well, you're good to go! However, it might be worth waiting so you can read the sidebar on halfling slang!


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I’d be very pleasantly surprised if some of the Arcadian ethnicities snuck in.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Luis Loza wrote:
Well, the information on the Othoban halflings is purely flavor. There's not an Othoban-related heritage nor is there an Othoban-related ancestry feat. If you can roleplay a time-displaced halfling who is particularly curious and keen on dressing well, you're good to go! However, it might be worth waiting so you can read the sidebar on halfling slang!

Oh, excellent!! I thought it was a heritage. But if not I'll just go ahead with it and retcon the rp when we get the book. Because time halflings! so cool! how could I not

Dark Archive

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keftiu wrote:
I’d be very pleasantly surprised if some of the Arcadian ethnicities snuck in.

Me too.


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I'm glad some folks out there find the Ancient Elf heritage to their liking. ^_^


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Still, if you want to get all the free multiclassing, the Ancient Elf + Adopted Ancestry (Human) + Multitalented seems to work. Makes for an odd story though- I was adopted by humans.... two hundred years ago. Could be a super-fun character to RP, since your upbringing leads you to believe that you "understand the ways of humans" but all of your assumptions are ridiculously old-fashioned.

The concept of Elves raised around people with short life spans is actually an already existing and fascinating part of the lore. They are called Forlorn Elves and they are represented in PF2 as an ancestry feat. So you could take Ancient Elf + Forlorn Elf at 1st level.

It’s a super powerful heritage though. I do like playing elves and would really enjoy using this but it does seem OP.


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So many cool things mentioned in this blog, and you haven't even gotten to the new ancestries that were already going to make me buy this book!

Silver Crusade

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Arachnofiend wrote:
I don't want to play an elf,
Then don’t.
Quote:
but now they're suddenly way better than any other ancestry if I want to play a Fighter/Wizard.

They’re not. You trade out your Heritage for a Dedication feat, the only requirement waived is the level, you still have to meet the others.

So it works out to you having an extra Class Feat instead of a Heritage. Good, but not broken.


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Rysky wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
I don't want to play an elf,
Then don’t.
Quote:
but now they're suddenly way better than any other ancestry if I want to play a Fighter/Wizard.

They’re not. You trade out your Heritage for a Dedication feat, the only requirement waived is the level, you still have to meet the others.

So it works out to you having an extra Class Feat instead of a Heritage. Good, but not broken.

It frees up a lvl 2 class feat. I haven't looked at all the classes lvl 2 feat lists but at least with the Rogue I was building I was backing out of multi-classing because there are already so many class feats at lvl 2 and above I want to take that I can't and the dedications can be really underwhelming on their own.

This heritage really opens up my options, I still need to make sure my stats line up but I'm not taking that boring dedication feat at a level where I could be getting something really cool. I'm excited it's there, as a player I would love it but it may fall into that "too good to be true" territory if it's as good as it looks.

Silver Crusade

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You do know you can take lower level feats in higher level slots right?


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Rysky wrote:
You do know you can take lower level feats in higher level slots right?

Yes but there are more cool feats at those higher levels including the multi class archetype feats you now have access to if you pick this heritage.

Maybe other classes are different but there’s loads of good options for the classes I’ve looked at and if I was interested in multi-classing a character in those classes I would take a +2 class feat over any of the heritages I’ve seen. This is on top of Elves getting low light vision and access to some very nice ancestry feats. For example you could go Rogue/Monk and have an arcane cantrip all at first level.

I don’t think it’s so strong that anyone has to be an elf to be viable, but min-maxers will flock to it and you’ll see a high proportion of Ancient Elves in play.


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Ancient Elf is way better than other heritages... The power creep came way faster than I thought, I hope it is at least uncommon.

The Exchange

Class feats were the only way to get multiclass feats. natural ambition gives a level 1 class feat BUT could not be used since the required dedication is level 2. This opens up faster progression AND an additional slot for multi classers.

For example, a MC into Druid would give an AC at 4th level as it stands. Ancient Elves MCing into Druid can get an AC at 2nd level (where it really helps). They then get Adopted Human at level 3 as a general feat

So, very overpowered heritage IF you want to seriously multi class. Arguably, it is THE heritage to take for MC.

Yes, I was hoping for power creep to be awhile (thats why I was happy when they removed the Level 1 class feat from Wizards)


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Laran wrote:

Class feats were the only way to get multiclass feats. natural ambition gives a level 1 class feat BUT could not be used since the required dedication is level 2. This opens up faster progression AND an additional slot for multi classers.

For example, a MC into Druid would give an AC at 4th level as it stands. Ancient Elves MCing into Druid can get an AC at 2nd level (where it really helps). They then get Adopted Human at level 3 as a general feat

So, very overpowered heritage IF you want to seriously multi class. Arguably, it is THE heritage to take for MC.

Yes, I was hoping for power creep to be awhile (thats why I was happy when they removed the Level 1 class feat from Wizards)

You missed something: Your Multiclass druid would only get an Animal Companion at 4th level still. No where does the heritage say that you wave the level requirements for any MC feat except for the Dedication. All other MC feats, including those that let you take a class feat for your new class, are 4th level minimum.


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It seems like a lot of people are missing the downside with the Ancient Elf- it locks you into having to acquire 2 more feats in your multiclass dedication before you can take a second archetype.

Since you can't retrain your heritage, you had best be absolutely sure that this is what you want to do, and you don't want to become a Firebrand or a Hellknight or something later. Note it's not "any dedication feat" it's "any multiclass dedication feat."

This is a sort of interesting design space, because it's both powerful and limiting. Particularly given that all the feats, save "dedication" in the multiclass dedication feats are "Feat 4" or higher. So you can't get out of your MC obligations until 8 at the earliest.


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You were already locked into the dedication if you were taking it at level 2, for at least the same amount of time, so if that's what you wanted in the first place it's essentially irrelevant.

Ancient Elf isn't for literally every single character, but if you were already planning on multiclassing it is incredibly good, and if you weren't planning on taking an archetype then it is also incredibly good, because the dedication feats can give you much more than normal heritages do, without needing to eat a more valuable class feat.


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FowlJ wrote:
You were already locked into the dedication if you were taking it at level 2, for at least the same amount of time, so if that's what you wanted in the first place it's essentially irrelevant.

It's conceivable that the archetype I will want at level 2 is not a multiclass archetype, but instead something like Aldori Swordlord or a Class Archetype for my class.

I mean, obviously it's not right now, but the APG is going to have 60 pages of archetypes of which 4 are multiclass ones.

Liberty's Edge

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Are they? I was under the impression that Heritages were supposed to be more powerful than Ancestry feats, since a lot of ancestry feats are like "you can talk to burrowing creatures" or "you are trained in some skills" or "access to ancestral weapons" which don't hold a candle to like "darkvision."

Both getting weapons and getting two Skills are better than most Heritages. Darkvision is certainly not worth more than an Ancestry Feat (since Half Orcs can grab it as one), and contrariwise, Half Elves can grab a Heritage with an Ancestry Feat.

It's arguable that they're equally valuable, but Heritages are definitely not ahead.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Natural Ambition stands out since it's the one ancestry feat at level 1 that's incredibly powerful.

It's really not. Several others are super good for specific builds, often way better than Natural Ambition could dream of being. Gnome Weapon Familiarity effectively replaces a 6th level Fighter Feat for many Fighters, for example (in practice it's a tad weaker, but it also kicks in right at 1st level).

.
.
.
And I continue to agree with Arachnofiend and the rest on this one that this Ancestry presents a bit of a problem assuming there's no weird requirements to take it or anything.

The Exchange

Feros wrote:
Laran wrote:

Class feats were the only way to get multiclass feats. natural ambition gives a level 1 class feat BUT could not be used since the required dedication is level 2. This opens up faster progression AND an additional slot for multi classers.

For example, a MC into Druid would give an AC at 4th level as it stands. Ancient Elves MCing into Druid can get an AC at 2nd level (where it really helps). They then get Adopted Human at level 3 as a general feat

So, very overpowered heritage IF you want to seriously multi class. Arguably, it is THE heritage to take for MC.

Yes, I was hoping for power creep to be awhile (thats why I was happy when they removed the Level 1 class feat from Wizards)

You missed something: Your Multiclass druid would only get an Animal Companion at 4th level still. No where does the heritage say that you wave the level requirements for any MC feat except for the Dedication. All other MC feats, including those that let you take a class feat for your new class, are 4th level minimum.

Order Animal - AC is a Level 1 feat unless I am mistaken Ahhh Nevermind I misread

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Laran wrote:
Feros wrote:
Laran wrote:

Class feats were the only way to get multiclass feats. natural ambition gives a level 1 class feat BUT could not be used since the required dedication is level 2. This opens up faster progression AND an additional slot for multi classers.

For example, a MC into Druid would give an AC at 4th level as it stands. Ancient Elves MCing into Druid can get an AC at 2nd level (where it really helps). They then get Adopted Human at level 3 as a general feat

So, very overpowered heritage IF you want to seriously multi class. Arguably, it is THE heritage to take for MC.

Yes, I was hoping for power creep to be awhile (thats why I was happy when they removed the Level 1 class feat from Wizards)

You missed something: Your Multiclass druid would only get an Animal Companion at 4th level still. No where does the heritage say that you wave the level requirements for any MC feat except for the Dedication. All other MC feats, including those that let you take a class feat for your new class, are 4th level minimum.

Order Animal - AC is a Level 1 feat unless I am mistaken Ahhh Nevermind I misread

Basic Wilding, the Multiclass Feat to get a level 1 or 2 Druid Feat, has a level 4 requirement.

Silver Crusade

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
And I continue to agree with Arachnofiend and the rest on this one that this Ancestry presents a bit of a problem assuming there's no weird requirements to take it or anything.

1) You have to play an Elf.

2) You have to play a very old Elf.

It’s not like that Wayang trait where you can just say your character is from that area. You have to actually be an Elf.


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BEAUTIFUL art! Can't wait for this book! I wonder where these Vahird dwarves are from...


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Rysky wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
And I continue to agree with Arachnofiend and the rest on this one that this Ancestry presents a bit of a problem assuming there's no weird requirements to take it or anything.

1) You have to play an Elf.

2) You have to play a very old Elf.

It’s not like that Wayang trait where you can just say your character is from that area. You have to actually be an Elf.

Yeah, Elf Atavism won't work as you have to be extremely old. Half-elves live longer than humans, but not anywhere near elf length lives. It would be prohibited therefore by the "You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have" clause.


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Sounds like a Rare ancestry to me. :)


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In spite of all the concern, this blog has me very excited for the second Lost Omens book! New ancestries, cultural diversity...Whoot! Golarion is becoming I place I really would love to visit.

Of course—given the Blog title—if we did go there we could check out any time we like, but we could never leave...

;)

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Wandering Wastrel wrote:
Doktor Weasel wrote:
And because I'm a sophisticated adult with mature tastes, I kind of want monkey goblins to have some poo flinging ability. I'm just classy that way.

It shows how far Paizo have fallen away from their original concept of PF1 goblins as evil little pyromaniacs that somebody could write this.

It should be flaming poo. Obviously.

There is a way for goblins to light a bodily excretion on fire in this book, but it's not poo.


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Feros wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
And I continue to agree with Arachnofiend and the rest on this one that this Ancestry presents a bit of a problem assuming there's no weird requirements to take it or anything.

1) You have to play an Elf.

2) You have to play a very old Elf.

It’s not like that Wayang trait where you can just say your character is from that area. You have to actually be an Elf.

Yeah, Elf Atavism won't work as you have to be extremely old. Half-elves live longer than humans, but not anywhere near elf length lives. It would be prohibited therefore by the "You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have" clause.

Given that "your long life" is not precisely defined, I am not sure that a half-elf is precluded from selecting this heritage via Elf Atavism.

But past 1st level, Ancient Elf is actually a weaker option than the Versatile Human heritage, as you get exactly one extra feat either way, and the Versatile Human has far more flexibility in how to spend it. In either case, you can't get any multiclass feat beyond the initial dedication feat before 4th level, as there are no multiclass feats other than the dedication feat with a lower level requirement.

Silver Crusade

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With the release of the new edition, I have been planning a lot of characters, and a lot of them are elves, for any build that only really work with multiclass feats, this new elven heritage would be a no-brainer.

The big deal is actually not getting it early (that is kinda nice for level 1 play) but getting a bonus ancestry feat without having to learn this trick from associating with humans.
Of course, if your normal class does have a good level 2 option it becomes even better.

Since this seems to be a callback, I wonder how old you have to be to remember the D&D and AD&D times where elves could be fighter/wizards ^^

Grand Lodge

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Michael Sayre wrote:
Wandering Wastrel wrote:
Doktor Weasel wrote:
And because I'm a sophisticated adult with mature tastes, I kind of want monkey goblins to have some poo flinging ability. I'm just classy that way.

It shows how far Paizo have fallen away from their original concept of PF1 goblins as evil little pyromaniacs that somebody could write this.

It should be flaming poo. Obviously.

There is a way for goblins to light a bodily excretion on fire in this book, but it's not poo.

And no matter how many times I stab it with my steely knife the Rough Beast just won't be killed.


Michael Sayre wrote:
Wandering Wastrel wrote:
Doktor Weasel wrote:
And because I'm a sophisticated adult with mature tastes, I kind of want monkey goblins to have some poo flinging ability. I'm just classy that way.

It shows how far Paizo have fallen away from their original concept of PF1 goblins as evil little pyromaniacs that somebody could write this.

It should be flaming poo. Obviously.

There is a way for goblins to light a bodily excretion on fire in this book, but it's not poo.

I think you've already given it away with earlier talk of a goblin monk sneezing flaming snot at enemies. Plus there was the Fire Sneeze spell in Goblins of Golarion, so it's got precident. But I do think you're missing a major opportunity here for something seriously high-brow.

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
With the release of the new edition, I have been planning a lot of characters, and a lot of them are elves, for any build that only really work with multiclass feats, this new elven heritage would be a no-brainer.

Elves are pretty powerful in PF2. Especially with their high speed. Mobility is very useful with the new rules. Hit and run tactics can be very effective. And then of course there is the Elf-monk built for speed: the Rocket Elf. Their feats are pretty good too. But a Half-Elf can get elf feats as well as human feats, which are also good.


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Michael Sayre wrote:
Wandering Wastrel wrote:
Doktor Weasel wrote:
And because I'm a sophisticated adult with mature tastes, I kind of want monkey goblins to have some poo flinging ability. I'm just classy that way.

It shows how far Paizo have fallen away from their original concept of PF1 goblins as evil little pyromaniacs that somebody could write this.

It should be flaming poo. Obviously.

There is a way for goblins to light a bodily excretion on fire in this book, but it's not poo.

People on here getting distracted by an old Elf that has to hold two jobs, while the real power is a Goblin with a tail able to sling flammable biological warfare. :)


I'm not sure that the ancient elf is "blow the competition out if the water" good. Like, marginally at best, if that is the particular character you are going for. There are heritages that offer cool abilities that you have to miss out on.

Liberty's Edge

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Rysky wrote:

1) You have to play an Elf.

2) You have to play a very old Elf.

It’s not like that Wayang trait where you can just say your character is from that area. You have to actually be an Elf.

One Ancestry having better Heritage options than the others while the core Ancestry stuff is on par with each other (though even there, Elf movement makes them one of the best chassis) is sorta exactly the problem I'm concerned about, here.


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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Since this seems to be a callback, I wonder how old you have to be to remember the D&D and AD&D times where elves could be fighter/wizards ^^

About my age, as it turns out. ^_^

(Though you'll need something even spicier than Ancient Elf to go fighter/mage/thief.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rysky wrote:

1) You have to play an Elf.

2) You have to play a very old Elf.

It’s not like that Wayang trait where you can just say your character is from that area. You have to actually be an Elf.

One Ancestry having better Heritage options than the others while the core Ancestry stuff is on par with each other (though even there, Elf movement makes them one of the best chassis) is sorta exactly the problem I'm concerned about, here.

We haven’t seen the other Heritages from this book yet.

Liberty's Edge

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Rysky wrote:
We haven’t seen the other Heritages from this book yet.

True! But them all being flatly better than those in the corebook is a separate problem, and probably a worse one if it exists.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rysky wrote:
We haven’t seen the other Heritages from this book yet.
True! But them all being flatly better than those in the corebook is a separate problem, and probably a worse one if it exists.

I’ve been thinking of them in terms of competing with the Planar Scions Heritages coming in the APG. As well as the others such as Changeling, Dhampir, etc


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Rysky wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rysky wrote:
We haven’t seen the other Heritages from this book yet.
True! But them all being flatly better than those in the corebook is a separate problem, and probably a worse one if it exists.
I’ve been thinking of them in terms of competing with the Planar Scions Heritages coming in the APG. As well as the others such as Changeling, Dhampir, etc

Yes, and that's exactly Deadmanwalking's point. If all of those heritages give things much stronger than the core heritages do, to the point that they are competing mostly with each other, that is its own problem, and a bigger one than just the Ancient Elf being really good.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
FowlJ wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rysky wrote:
We haven’t seen the other Heritages from this book yet.
True! But them all being flatly better than those in the corebook is a separate problem, and probably a worse one if it exists.
I’ve been thinking of them in terms of competing with the Planar Scions Heritages coming in the APG. As well as the others such as Changeling, Dhampir, etc
Yes, and that's exactly Deadmanwalking's point. If all of those heritages give things much stronger than the core heritages do, to the point that they are competing mostly with each other, that is its own problem, and a bigger one than just the Ancient Elf being really good.

Well the other thing to consider is that Heritages give access to certain Ancestry Feats, which we have precedent with with Half-Elves and Half-Orcs (a lot of speculation but specific Planar creatures for Scions has come up).

Dark Archive

Its kinda interesting thing to be sure, because half orcs will have access to all human and orc ancestry feats in future plus half orc exclusive ones. Same with half-elves but for elves. So like, I think its kinda hard to tell year in future what theorycrafters want to pick.


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I feel like the biggest impediment (for me at least) to taking ancient elf for that sweet sweet optimization is trying to come up with a backstory for how I didn't gain a single class level in the last 280ish years.

Like Goblins who are 8 years old have picked up as many trained skills as I have...

Dark Archive

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Its how long took to write your wizard graduation paper for university because you kept putting it off?

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

New arrival from Castorvel? You were contemplating the multiverse instead of studying?


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Fighter/Wizard?!? Fighter/Mage/Thief? It’s Magic User. And the only, one, true calling was and always will be F/MU/C. So get the FMUC off my lawn!!!!!

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