Old Cheliax

Tuesday, July 16, 2019

In the history of Golarion, no empire has reached the heights of influence nor seen that influence ripped away by revolutionaries and anarchists than Cheliax—at least if modern accounts of Chelish history are to be believed. But in today’s Cheliax, ruled by Her Infernal Majestrix, Queen Abrogail II of the Thrice-Damned House of Thrune, the truth is malleable and is often altered to support the reigning regime rather than objective fact. From the outside, Cheliax appears as a failing state, whose territories have slipped through its fingers in the wake of decades of tyrannical rule by devil-worshipping nobles more concerned with their own power than the plight of their people, an empire in decline despite its own claims to the contrary.

A dark landscape, cloudy and tinged in reds and dark purples. Through light mist, low stairs lead up to an imposing gothic cathedral with ornate towers peaking in pointed spires. It dominates the city skyline, with prominent iconography of Asmodeus, including his pentagram religious symbol, displayed in its architecture.

Illustration by Roman Roland Kuteynikov

At the heart of the Old Cheliax meta-region is Cheliax itself. Two recent revolutions (one successful, the other not so much) within their borders have shown the people the precarious position their government and aristocracy find themselves in. In response to growing anti-Thrune sentiment, the infernal agents of the throne have redoubled their efforts to stamp out any discord and promote the propagandic party line of both House Thrune and the church of Asmodeus. Despite this, the downtrodden and abused commoners of Cheliax know of the success of the Silver Ravens in Ravounel and of the folly of mounting an overt assault on House Thrune as the Glorious Reclamation attempted to do, and they have adapted. With the help of the Firebrands and allied organizations like the Twilight Talons of Andoran and the halfling abolitionists of the Bellflower Network, small cells of dissenting Chelish revolutionaries are gaining a foothold in the deep shadows. Will the agents of the crown, the Hellknights sworn to maintain law and order, and the Asmodean church be enough to put out any new sparks of freedom that may take light in the dry kindling of the authoritarian regime?

A grey-skinned humanoid female with long, thin ridged horns, arms up and one knee raised in a battle stance. Long dark hair is pilled back from the face in a braid past their waist. They are clothed in red monk robes and pants, with white lower leg coverings bound by criss-crossing straps from their leather shoes. A simple bangle bracelet adorns each wrist.

Illustration by Tomasz Chistowski

The successful revolution that has so effectively inspired the people of Cheliax to consider alternatives to the status quo is that of Ravounel. Formerly a Chelish archduchy, Ravounel began its struggle for sovereignty in 4716 AR behind the revolutionaries of Kintargo known as the Silver Ravens. At the same time, the Iomedaen crusaders of the Glorious Reclamation attacked Cheliax in Westcrown far to the south. Its armies and resources split between the two fronts, Cheliax could only win one war, and in 4717 House Thrune was forced to recognize Ravounel’s independence. Today, Ravounel’s focus is on building the foundation of a stable government to last for generations to come and establishing trade with its neighbors along Avistan and Garund’s western coasts.

A flag with the top half colored blue and the bottom half colored silver. The center of the flag has a shield emblem that is pointed at the bottom. Two vertical blue stripes run vertically down each side of this shield and one down the center. A set of black and white laurel branches are set at the bottom of the shield and rest of each side.  Above the shield is a silver diamond-shaped symbol incorporating wings for the three lower points.

Illustration by Rogier van de Beek

Aside from Cheliax, Ravounel shares a border with the shadow-shrouded nation of Nidal—the oldest continuous nation state in the entire region. Founded by followers of Zon-Kuthon emboldened during the Age of Darkness, the isolationist nation is ruled by a secret cabal of shadowcasters known as the Black Triune. During the period of Chelish expansion known as the Everwar, Cheliax formally annexed Nidal, though the latter never truly ceded its independence to Chelish rule. Instead, the Black Triune maintained near total control of the shadowy nation by Chelish grace. Even under control of House Thrune, Nidal has been left largely to its own devices, though the common ground between Zon-Kuthon’s and Asmodeus’s faiths have strengthened the nations’ alliance.

A slim stone tower with many windows sits in the background, but more alarming are the large zig-zagging chasms opened in the ground leading to to it, breaking up grass and path. Huge tendrils of wispy black shadow extend from the depths.

Illustration by Fabio Gorla

In Isger, to Cheliax’s northeast, however, things are not so cordial. Isger is a vassal in every form of the word, with its ruler, Hedvend VI little more than a thrall under Abrogail’s iron rule. Despite its close ties to Cheliax, Isger gets little benefit from its powerful liege state’s influence, instead sending its resources to Cheliax with little in return. This dynamic was never more evident than two decades ago, when the goblins of Isger’s Chitterwood, under hobgoblin commanders, attacked much of the unprotected countryside surrounding the forest. During the ensuing Goblinblood Wars, the armies not only of Cheliax but Andoran and Druma had to come to the Isgeri’s aid, and casualties were high on both sides. Even 20 years on, Isger is still recovering from the bloody conflict, but a glimmer of hope has arisen, for among the surviving goblins, a new alliance of likeminded tribes has begun reaching out to the local human population in the hopes of preventing future conflicts between goblinoids and other ancestries from causing the same level of devastation. And with the undead threat around Lake Encarthan growing, the Isgeri largely welcome any allies they can get as their government largely ignores their needs in order to lick their Chelish masters’ boots.

A path through deep, old woods. It appears to be night time. In the foreground right, a pair of females in cloaks are tucked away behind large tree roots, staring in horror at the path where a string of undead with arrows in their abdomens, are being attacked by torch-wielding goblins. The undead in the foreground has a gleeful goblin sitting on its shoulders, legs wrapped around the undead’s neck as it tries to light fire to its head.

Illustration by Michele Giorgi

Players hailing from or adventuring in the region can look forward to seven new backgrounds such as Chelish rebel, Goblinblood orphan, or Thrune loyalist, as well as the Hellknight Armiger archetype, which allows members of all classes to begin their journey as a keeper of law and order as early as 2nd level! Look for a new piece of horror-tinged flash fiction from Liane Merciel later this week as the Tales of Lost Omens series continues. Next week we’ll venture to one of Cheliax’s more distant former holdings, the frontier region of Varisia and its larger meta-region of the Saga Lands.

A formidable dark skinned woman with no hair stands sideways to the viewer, her head tilted as she measures them silently. She has the outline of a sun with a dot in the center in the middle of her forehead. She wears dark fitted armor with spikes on the elbows and shoulders. Her left hand wrists on the scabbard of a long sword with a crescent moon on the pommel of the hilt. She wears a red cape across her right shoulder.

Illustration by Biagio d'Alessandro

Mark Moreland
Franchise Manager

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder World Guides
1 to 50 of 87 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Huzzah?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Yay the Saga Lands are next!


Ah Old Cheliax, home of two of my favorite Adventure Paths, the birth place of Azaersi my favorite villain and the inspiration for my homebrew empire of Svenik.

I know out of hand that Ravounel is going to get my full attention when this book comes out, and as for the failings of the Glorious Reclamation...they really should have planned better, reading through the Cheliax Campaign guide there are so many individuals and towns that if they reached out to would have lead to much more success in their endeavors.

Who are the Firebrands? And are any of the Reclamation still existence?

It’s good to see that Isger is on a road to peace with the Goblins, after all their kind of hemmed in by the forces of a crazed Necromancer to the west and the troubles of the Eye of Dread to the North.

I wonder how Isger is reacting to the creation of Oprak.


Cheliax! I was always a fan of this region. The art is beautiful as always, though I wish they'd elaborated on relations between Cheliax and Ravounel a bit more. To be fair though, it's only meant to be a preview of the book, which I'm sure will have much more detail.

Also a bit curious about Isger's opinions of Oprak, now that you mention that.


26 people marked this as a favorite.

Also that last picture got me thinking of a new Goblin Chant.

“Goblins chew and Goblins Bite! No Longer Do You Fear the Night! Walking, Walking are the Deads! We go out and take their Heads! Grave Flesh Burns Like a Pyre! We help Kill with lots of Fire!”

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
VerBeeker wrote:
Who are the Firebrands?

That's the 64,000 gp question, ain't it?

Shadow Lodge

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Ravounel flag is very pretty, and similar enough to the Polish (horizontal bicolor, charged with shield and bird) to make me pleasantly smug.

I do note that the country is said to be focused on building a "stable" government, and that the form of government is suspiciously left unsaid. I doubt it will be republican, or that there will be significant land reform.

Silver Crusade

I feel like I learned more of Isger from reading this than I knew before, but the nation always struck me as a kind of afterthought. That sounds rather Chelish but... there it is. Still, really loving the previews for the meta-regions (and the meta-region concept), and I'm really looking forward to Liane's piece of fiction!

Shadow Lodge

Arrendis Lionheart wrote:
I feel like I learned more of Isger from reading this than I knew before, but the nation always struck me as a kind of afterthought. That sounds rather Chelish but... there it is. Still, really loving the previews for the meta-regions (and the meta-region concept), and I'm really looking forward to Liane's piece of fiction!

It occurs to me that this retcons the Continuing the Campaign section from Hell's Vengeance (or was it Hell's Rebels?) that had Cheliax integrating Isger as an Archduchy as part of the counterrevolution, rather than leaving the current system in place.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Liane Merciel!!
I can't wait!! :D
She was awesome in the panels at PaizoCon


Love to see some more evil APs in region, maybe one focused on trying to stop these oppressive revoltionarys called firebrand and bellflower networker, or working to overthrow Thrune Dynasty so much more better leader can lead. Could see it dealing with conving hellknights to switch sides.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

12 people marked this as a favorite.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Arrendis Lionheart wrote:
I feel like I learned more of Isger from reading this than I knew before, but the nation always struck me as a kind of afterthought. That sounds rather Chelish but... there it is. Still, really loving the previews for the meta-regions (and the meta-region concept), and I'm really looking forward to Liane's piece of fiction!
It occurs to me that this retcons the Continuing the Campaign section from Hell's Vengeance (or was it Hell's Rebels?) that had Cheliax integrating Isger as an Archduchy as part of the counterrevolution, rather than leaving the current system in place.

Continuing the Campaign articles are generally the least canonical part of an AP, since they're often just seeds of additional adventures a GM can use to, well, continue the campaign. So this isn't so much a retcon as canon diverging from one of the possible futures presented when the AP originally ran. Ulunat did not, canonically, wake up and rampage Sothis, for example, nor did Choral the Conquerer come back to reclaim Brevoy.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:
Who are the Firebrands?
That's the 64,000 gp question, ain't it?

Sounds to me like they're Chelaxian citizens who are now working against Thrune from within the country taking after the lessons of the Silver Ravens. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

More info on Isger ahead of Age of Ashes is most welcome.

Shadow Lodge

NightTrace wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:
Who are the Firebrands?
That's the 64,000 gp question, ain't it?
Sounds to me like they're Chelaxian citizens who are now working against Thrune from within the country taking after the lessons of the Silver Ravens. :)

Well that's a nothing-burger of a description.

Also, the SRs per this blog post have retreated behind their borders and are not attempting to export the revolution. So that's the Adventurer's Guide retconned too.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Waait a second . . . I know that gal! That's Linxia, the iconic Hellknight from Hell's Vengeance! You telling me she got demoted to Armiger?!

Paizo Employee Developer

25 people marked this as a favorite.
Syri wrote:
Waait a second . . . I know that gal! That's Linxia, the iconic Hellknight from Hell's Vengeance! You telling me she got demoted to Armiger?!

As an iconic, Linxia is doomed to be demoted, promoted, thrown through time, and leveled up to 20 before being level drained back to level 1 repeatedly.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
NightTrace wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:
Who are the Firebrands?
That's the 64,000 gp question, ain't it?
Sounds to me like they're Chelaxian citizens who are now working against Thrune from within the country taking after the lessons of the Silver Ravens. :)

Well that's a nothing-burger of a description.

Also, the SRs per this blog post have retreated behind their borders and are not attempting to export the revolution. So that's the Adventurer's Guide retconned too.

It says the SR's aren't actively doing so, but the Firebrand writeup to me sounds like an organization that learned from the actions of the Glorious Reclamation and the Silver Ravens and are using guerrilla tactics within the borders while supported by other groups and nation-states.

Shadow Lodge

NightTrace wrote:
It says the SR's aren't actively doing so, but the Firebrand writeup to me sounds like an organization that learned from the actions of the Glorious Reclamation and the Silver Ravens and are using guerrilla tactics within the borders while supported by other groups and nation-states.

Thanks, I hate it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
zimmerwald1915 wrote:


Thanks, I hate it.

I mean, alright? I'd say wait for them to officially be revealed and if I'm right, then make them something else if that's what you want to do.


I figure the Ravens are just too good at this to let any of their international espionage come back to them. Officially they are allies of Cheliax after all.

But there's probably no one on Golarion as skilled at espionage as the Silver Ravens, I mean the Twilight Talons are headed by a single 12 level person, the Ravens likely have a quartet of 18th level people at the reigns.

I mean they are at the very least savvy enough to not brand their anti-Thrune activities with anything that could implicate Kintargo.

Shadow Lodge

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I figure the Ravens are just too good at this to let any of their international espionage come back to them. Officially they are allies of Cheliax after all.

But there's probably no one on Golarion as skilled at espionage as the Silver Ravens, I mean the Twilight Talons are headed by a single 12 level person, the Ravens likely have a quartet of 18th level people at the reigns.

As long as we're making up characters, the TTs have a squadron of ancient brass dragons and a legion of agathions at their disposal.

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Lovely article. One slight problem.

I don't recall ever seeing mention of Taldor sending forces into Isger during the Goblinblood War. They had no reason to send forces, unless they were there to help the goblins weaken the surrounding states...

I believe the sentence should say Druma instead of Taldor which I have seen mentioned before. Also Druma would have been one of the 3 nations to border Isger and the goblins were causing trade issues.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I mean, recent APs have explicitly made textual justification for "why don't the PCs from a previous AP just come and fix this?" So it's safe to say that the PCs who completed the AP canonically are around and exist within the setting, it's just that there will be no specific reference to them so as to not contradict anybody's game.

At the very least the NPCs that were recruited to the organization who leveled with the PCs are going to be uncommonly competent.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, recent APs have explicitly made textual justification for "why don't the PCs from a previous AP just come and fix this?" So it's safe to say that the PCs who completed the AP canonically are around and exist within the setting, it's just that there will be no specific reference to them so as to not contradict anybody's game.

If anything, this is indication that PCs from past games cannot be allowed to intervene in events. They are non-factors, and even if they exist, they might as well not.

Shadow Lodge

PossibleCabbage wrote:
At the very least the NPCs that were recruited to the organization who leveled with the PCs are going to be uncommonly competent.

Canonically, that amounts to Rexus (aristocrat 2/sorcerer 9), Laria (brawler 4/rogue 2, and more associated with the Bellflower Network), and Octavio (I forget his exact leveled-up levels, but they're in The Kintargo Contract and are probably a misprint, as they're the same as Kyrre Ekodyre's levels). Shensen and Jackdaw are both 12th-level.

Manticce Kaleeki is 19th level, but she's not really a principled SR. Her peers in Vyre are similarly powerful but range from even less reliable to outright subversive. Ithanothaur and Solmestria are in the same boat, and in any event none of these people are internationalists.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
If anything, this is indication that PCs from past games cannot be allowed to intervene in events. They are non-factors, and even if they exist, they might as well not.

Old PCs being around exist to lend inertia to the setting. Just like Razmir's scam persists pretty much entirely because "he's a 19th level wizard", and this is going to keep going until we send some PCs to make it stop, any particular endeavor a retired group of AP heroes is devoted to is not going to suddenly diverge from their interests in the near term.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
PossibleCabbage wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
If anything, this is indication that PCs from past games cannot be allowed to intervene in events. They are non-factors, and even if they exist, they might as well not.
Old PCs being around exist to lend inertia to the setting. Just like Razmir's scam persists pretty much entirely because "he's a 19th level wizard", and this is going to keep going until we send some PCs to make it stop, any particular endeavor a retired group of AP heroes is devoted to is not going to suddenly diverge from their interests in the near term.

On the contrary, any particular activity a retired group of AP heroes is devoted to is going to be functionally indistinguishable from "nothing," because unlike setting elements such as Razmir, those PCs can't be considered to be up to anything in particular.

In any event, your presumption is incorrect that the modern SRs are at all interested in espionage. In the AP, they can choose between cultivating Loyalty, Security, or Secrecy. In the AG, they're
presented bombastic and swashbuckling (suggesting a canon Loyalty focus).


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Definitely interesting. I like the art too. I'm also glad Paizo's not going the whole Games-Workshop/Wizards of the Coast route of literally nuking the entire setting and starting from scratch. Slight incremental change in these sorts of things I think is preferable to chucking everything in the trash bin and telling people who are upset 'you think you want that, but you don't'.

I particularly like the bit about non-evil goblinoids, and former enemies finding common ground. Also, what happened to Lastwall is strangely similar to the idea for a home campaign I had once, where agents of the Whispering Way engineered an eruption from Droskar's Crag that spread plague-tainted ash across all of Isger, killing nearly everything and reanimating them as shambling horrors. Though it was less about the horrors the living had to face, as many humanoids who were killed and raised retained their memories and free will. The players were going to be among the 'Twice-Born', and set adrift in a ruined world of perpetual twilight where even former loved ones wanted them destroyed, and people who had lost everything were left to pick up the pieces of a shattered society and try in vain to put them back together. At least now I have a canonical part of the setting to do that in, rather than having to blow up poor, tortured Isger.

Dark Archive

9 people marked this as a favorite.

It all sounds fantastic, but cool as the rest of the info is I can't wait to see more fiction from Liane Merciel, can she just write PF horror novels and sourcebooks forever? (Or at least for as long as she's interested anyways!)


Richard Lowe wrote:
It all sounds fantastic, but cool as the rest of the info is I can't wait to see more fiction from Liane Merciel, can she just write PF horror novels and sourcebooks forever? (Or at least for as long as she's interested anyways!)

Hear hear! We need to quest to procure her a sun orchid elixir, or perhaps lovingly leave behind a pamphlet on her desk detailing the secrets to achieving lichdom. Failing that, we can just insist she take and pass the Test of the Starstone.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

But how will we read all of the writings of an immortal Liane Merciel?

I don't know about the rest of you, but from what I saw of her in the PaizoCon videos, she looks like she will easily outlive me even without unnatural life extension.


I never paid much attention to Cheliax and Co. because I didn't think they were my cup of tea, but looking at this caused me to google the Goblinblood Wars which caused me to see the Sisters of the Golden Erinyes for the first time, who seem super cool, if i ever play Hell's Vengeance or similar, I would definitely play as one of them as a PC; so hopefully they show up with character options in a latter Lost Omens Book.

Shadow Lodge

Ah yes, The Goblinblood Wars was my favourite AP. I still have fond memories of me & my group, back in 1999, when we saved Isger for the first time.

Seriously, though, if you wonder why your previous PCs aren't on the lookout for more ancient evil so they can Scry & Fry it, they probably retired to endless opulence in their timeless demiplanes, or fought each other over misunderstandings, or are trying to keep Sorshen under surveillance 'cause she's gotta be up to something, right?

Or whatever you/your GM can figure out, so as not to steal the upcoming thunder of your new PCs.

Grand Lodge

As a big fan of Nidal (and also Liane Merciel),I am curious about their tag of "the only country survive Starfall " being remove after the Return of Runelord .
Do the ending of that ap (and the role of sorshen) affect nidal in pf2e? will nidal be less alzlanti due to the timeline change?

on the other hand,a weaker and broken cheliax seems best fit with nidal's benefit.the house of Thrune must rely on Black Triune's assistance more than ever .......


9 people marked this as a favorite.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, recent APs have explicitly made textual justification for "why don't the PCs from a previous AP just come and fix this?" So it's safe to say that the PCs who completed the AP canonically are around and exist within the setting, it's just that there will be no specific reference to them so as to not contradict anybody's game.
If anything, this is indication that PCs from past games cannot be allowed to intervene in events. They are non-factors, and even if they exist, they might as well not.

Most of the PCs from past Adventure Paths are probably busy making sure that their work doesn't get catastrophically undone or perverted, and on top of that possibly trying to cover for some other PCs who are missing in action or even slacking from their job:

Rise of the Runelords:
Busy making sure that more Runelords don't rise. Uh oh (see below).

Curse of the Crimson Throne:
Just because you did something about the most recent problematic occupant of the Crimson Throne, it doesn't mean that the Crimson Throne is no longer cursed.

Second Darkness:
The immediate danger of impact of that particular asteroid may have been averted, but sooner or later, somebody's going to try again, and it will probably be sooner rather than later. And the most obvious candidates for such villainy aren't the only ones . . . .

Legacy of Fire:
If only Katapesh weren't such a hive of scum and villainy, the PCs from this might actually get a break . . . .

Council of Thieves:
Westcrown is going to need some serious followup for the cleanup that you just did to last . . . uh oh (see below).

Kingmaker:
You can't just put a country, especially a new one, on autopilot.

Serpent's Skull:
So you managed to defeat Yderseius -- great. Now you've got to figure out how to manage a revolution and the new regime that follows from it.

Carrion Crown:
Ustalav has no shortage of additional horrors to consume a life. Double uh oh -- see 2 places below.

Jade Regent:
You can't just put a new regime, even if established within an existing country, and even if established as a restoration, on autopilot.

Skull and Shackles:
If only the Shackles weren't such a hive of scum and villainy, the PCs from this might actually get a break . . . .

Shattered Star:
You should probably be working with the PCs from Second Darkness to establish the foundations for a planetary defense program, to, you know, keep these kinds of things from happening again. Uh oh -- see below.

Reign of Winter:
If you made a deal with Baba Yaga, you've made a deal with somebody at least as bad as a Devil. Better be ever watchful . . . .

Wrath of the Righteous:
The Worldwound isn't going to keep itself closed. Eternal vigilance is the price of security. Oh, you actually thought you could get away with leaving your vigilance to close the Infernal Worldwound like you did the Abyssal Worldwound? Well, we know how that turned out, didn't it?

Mummy's Mask:
Sounds like saving the region from the vengeful past Pharoah has honked off the current Ruby Prince. Good luck staying ahead of the Risen Guard for the remainder of your lives . . . .

Iron Gods:
Plenty of weird stuff to preoccupy you for a lifetime, no matter what you might have done to the Technic League . . . and even if you get a break from that, you might want to use it to work with the PCs from Second Darkness and Shattered Star on that planetary defense thing . . . .

Giantslayer:
If only the Hold of Belkzen wasn't such a hive of scum and villainy, the PCs from this might actually get a break . . . .

Hell's Rebels:
You can't just put a new regime, even if established within an existing country, and even if established on an ancient contract, especially an Infernal contract, on autopilot. Just because you got some autonomy from Cheliax doesn't mean that Cheliax isn't going to try to do everything they can to subvert your autonomy. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

Hell's Vengeance:
Being in upper middle management of a major outpost of Hell is a full-time job. Although from the point of view of the rest of the world, that's probably a good thing . . . .

Strange Aeons:
More horror! See? One PC party isn't enough to keep it down! Maybe two PC parties? . . . Uh oh (see below).

Ironfang Invasion:
Shame you have to keep eternal watch on the invasion you couldn't entirely stop . . . .

Ruins of Azlant:
So now you have a strategically important outpost for Andoran . . . be a shame if anything were to happen to it while you were away . . . .

War for the Crown:
You know very well that reactionary forces aren't just going to admit defeat and decide to get along . . . .

Return of the Runelords:
They're baaaaaack . . . .

Tyrant's Grasp:
See? TWO PC party's aren't enough to keep the horror down after all! What makes you think three will be enough?

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
UnArcaneElection wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, recent APs have explicitly made textual justification for "why don't the PCs from a previous AP just come and fix this?" So it's safe to say that the PCs who completed the AP canonically are around and exist within the setting, it's just that there will be no specific reference to them so as to not contradict anybody's game.
If anything, this is indication that PCs from past games cannot be allowed to intervene in events. They are non-factors, and even if they exist, they might as well not.

Most of the PCs from past Adventure Paths are probably busy making sure that their work doesn't get catastrophically undone or perverted, and on top of that possibly trying to cover for some other PCs who are missing in action or even slacking from their job:

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

Big Tyrant's Grasp Spoiler:
There are no such thing as previous PCs from Tyrant's Grasp...

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Shouldn't the date for the Silver Ravens and the Glorious Reclamation be 4716 AR instead of 4616 AR?

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Woohoo! Hero Goblins using their burning powers for good!

Blog wrote:
Look for a new piece of horror-tinged flash fiction from Liane Merciel later this week as the Tales of Lost Omens series continues.

YAY! Liane is one of my favourite writers (I miss Isiem).

Syri wrote:
Waait a second . . . I know that gal! That's Linxia, the iconic Hellknight from Hell's Vengeance!

Yeah that jerk.

Dark Archive

Mark Moreland wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Arrendis Lionheart wrote:
I feel like I learned more of Isger from reading this than I knew before, but the nation always struck me as a kind of afterthought. That sounds rather Chelish but... there it is. Still, really loving the previews for the meta-regions (and the meta-region concept), and I'm really looking forward to Liane's piece of fiction!
It occurs to me that this retcons the Continuing the Campaign section from Hell's Vengeance (or was it Hell's Rebels?) that had Cheliax integrating Isger as an Archduchy as part of the counterrevolution, rather than leaving the current system in place.
Continuing the Campaign articles are generally the least canonical part of an AP, since they're often just seeds of additional adventures a GM can use to, well, continue the campaign. So this isn't so much a retcon as canon diverging from one of the possible futures presented when the AP originally ran. Ulunat did not, canonically, wake up and rampage Sothis, for example, nor did Choral the Conquerer come back to reclaim Brevoy.

For those who want to keep it canon, I think they could just assume that it hasn't happened yet.

Also, small correction, that wasn't from continuing the campaign article, it was article from book 5 that detailed what is happening during the war outside Cheliax's border and what happens politically if either faction wins the war


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Super Mutant wrote:
Definitely interesting. I like the art too. I'm also glad Paizo's not going the whole Games-Workshop/Wizards of the Coast route of literally nuking the entire setting and starting from scratch. Slight incremental change in these sorts of things I think is preferable to chucking everything in the trash bin and telling people who are upset 'you think you want that, but you don't'.

I so much hate when they're doing that! I hated when WotC did it, when GW did it with the Old World (which I liked a lot better than the new Mortal Realms) or, recently, the new White Wolf with nearly completely rewriting WoD with V5. I'M VERY glad Paizo didn't go that way with Golarion, but with a natural progression of the setting's story.

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
UnArcaneElection wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean, recent APs have explicitly made textual justification for "why don't the PCs from a previous AP just come and fix this?" So it's safe to say that the PCs who completed the AP canonically are around and exist within the setting, it's just that there will be no specific reference to them so as to not contradict anybody's game.
If anything, this is indication that PCs from past games cannot be allowed to intervene in events. They are non-factors, and even if they exist, they might as well not.
Most of the PCs from past Adventure Paths are probably busy making sure that their work doesn't get catastrophically undone or perverted, and on top of that possibly trying to cover for some other PCs who are missing in action or even slacking from their job

And, that being the case, are functionally unavailable for other purposes. They can be safely ignored.

In any event, I strongly disagree with the idea that PCs are or should be integral to the continued stories of the more political APs (CoT, JR, HR, HV, II, WftC, etc.). There are tens or hundreds of thousands of people in these countries and even the named casts number in the dozens. Are they all witless sheep (apologies to the sheepfolk)?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Ravounel flag is very pretty, and similar enough to the Polish (horizontal bicolor, charged with shield and bird) to make me pleasantly smug.

I do note that the country is said to be focused on building a "stable" government, and that the form of government is suspiciously left unsaid. I doubt it will be republican, or that there will be significant land reform.

Why don't we wait and see what the book actually says? After all, Ravounel as a nation has only existed for 3 years in-game. It takes time to build a fully functioning government, especially if you want to try and make it a republic. Consider US history:

1. The American Revolution started in 1775 with the first skirmishes.
2. The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776, officially declaring independence from England.
3. The Articles of Confederation were approved in 1777, creating a weak central government.
4. After realizing that governing wasn't functional under the Articles, the Constitutional Convention was held in 1787.
5. The new United States Constitution went into effect in 1789.
6. The US Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments) was officially ratified as part of the Constitution in 1791.

It took the US government 16 years to go from revolution to independence to stable, functioning government, and there have been 17 amendments to the US Constitution since then. Let's not jump to conclusions based on a short preview blog post.

Shadow Lodge

Phntm888 wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Ravounel flag is very pretty, and similar enough to the Polish (horizontal bicolor, charged with shield and bird) to make me pleasantly smug.

I do note that the country is said to be focused on building a "stable" government, and that the form of government is suspiciously left unsaid. I doubt it will be republican, or that there will be significant land reform.

Why don't we wait and see what the book actually says? After all, Ravounel as a nation has only existed for 3 years in-game. It takes time to build a fully functioning government, especially if you want to try and make it a republic. Consider US history:

1. The American Revolution started in 1775 with the first skirmishes.
2. The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776, officially declaring independence from England.
3. The Articles of Confederation were approved in 1777, creating a weak central government.
4. After realizing that governing wasn't functional under the Articles, the Constitutional Convention was held in 1787.
5. The new United States Constitution went into effect in 1789.
6. The US Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments) was officially ratified as part of the Constitution in 1791.

It took the US government 16 years to go from revolution to independence to stable, functioning government, and there have been 17 amendments to the US Constitution since then. Let's not jump to conclusions based on a short preview blog post.

If anything, your argument leads naturally to the conclusion that very little will have changed - after all, it's only been three years.

That said, Ravounel is distinguishable from the early United States in many respects, including being much smaller territorially, much more urbanized, and with a population in the tens of thousands rather than the early United States' four millions.

Shadow Lodge

Another point that has not been addressed: what is the status of Anchor's End?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Phntm888 wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Ravounel flag is very pretty, and similar enough to the Polish (horizontal bicolor, charged with shield and bird) to make me pleasantly smug.

I do note that the country is said to be focused on building a "stable" government, and that the form of government is suspiciously left unsaid. I doubt it will be republican, or that there will be significant land reform.

Why don't we wait and see what the book actually says? After all, Ravounel as a nation has only existed for 3 years in-game. It takes time to build a fully functioning government, especially if you want to try and make it a republic. Consider US history:

1. The American Revolution started in 1775 with the first skirmishes.
2. The Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776, officially declaring independence from England.
3. The Articles of Confederation were approved in 1777, creating a weak central government.
4. After realizing that governing wasn't functional under the Articles, the Constitutional Convention was held in 1787.
5. The new United States Constitution went into effect in 1789.
6. The US Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments) was officially ratified as part of the Constitution in 1791.

It took the US government 16 years to go from revolution to independence to stable, functioning government, and there have been 17 amendments to the US Constitution since then. Let's not jump to conclusions based on a short preview blog post.

If anything, your argument leads naturally to the conclusion that very little will have changed - after all, it's only been three years.

That said, Ravounel is distinguishable from the early United States in many respects, including being much smaller territorially, much more urbanized, and with a population in the tens of thousands rather than the early United States' four millions.

My argument is that you shouldn't automatically assume they aren't trying to create a republic. I am well aware that Ravounel is distinguishable from the early US on many levels, but I felt it was a good example to put forth of the the difficulty of building a government out of independence. Regardless, even the Articles of Confederation created a representative federal government - it just didn't have the authority needed to govern such a large area.

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Are they all witless sheep (apologies to the sheepfolk)?

Ever met an NPC that wasn't?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Finally another monk of the Sisterhood of the Golden Erinyes! I'm playing an aasimar monk in hell's vengeance just now who is going down the devil bound route so that could actually be pretty similar to what I end up looking like.

I do like how they're wrapping up the APs into cannon. If your table has a continuity you can obviously add in those details yourself, but if paizo did that it couldn't be right for anyone really.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Another point that has not been addressed: what is the status of Anchor's End?

Since Anchor's End is/was a Chelish colony in Arcadia, that would raise the more general question of how much information will we be getting about Arcadia in the Core Rulebook and the Lost Omens World Guide?


David knott 242 wrote:


But how will we read all of the writings of an immortal Liane Merciel?

I don't know about the rest of you, but from what I saw of her in the PaizoCon videos, she looks like she will easily outlive me even without unnatural life extension.

Not for us. Think of the children...the children!

1 to 50 of 87 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Old Cheliax All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.