Tales of Lost Omens: All That Glitters

Thursday, June 20, 2019

Invisible and as silent as a church fart, Twilp Farfan slipped through the sparse midday crowds of Sothis's Malhitu Bazaar. Skulking in broad daylight always freaked the halfling out, but if he didn't stir up too much dust or bump into anyone, his passage would go unnoticed. Sothans tended to close up shop and nap in the blazing heat of the day, so there weren't many people about.

All good for me. He paused in the shade of an awning and wiped his face. All except the heat.

Twilp studied the blue-domed cupolas across the square and found the right building. Two burly guards stood beside the beaded doorway of Kepeshka's Antiquities Emporium. Sweat glistened on their ebony skin, their eyelids sagging, but each rested a hand on a khopesh at his belt.

Nobody trusts anyone these days. Of course, that included Twilp. He didn't care who he stole for or from, as long as the gold was yellow. In Sothis, gold was all that mattered, and after the fall of the pyramids, there had been a glut of expensive antiquities on the market, ripe for the picking. The halfling's gaze drifted up to Sothis's looming Black Dome and the recently fallen pyramid beyond. The instant it hit the ground, grave robbers had swarmed like ants over a fallen elephant. The very trinket he was being paid to steal had come from that megalithic monstrosity. Twilp didn't know what was so important about this particular bauble anyway; a dagger was a dagger as far as he was concerned. But gold...

The ground-floor windows were girded with ornate iron latticework, and the sheer walls defied even the deftest climber. Twilp edged around the square and up to the bead-curtained doorway. The guards blinked lazily, half asleep. The burglar eased down to the ground and squirmed quietly beneath the curtain.

Good thing I'm skinny. He rose up inside and scanned the showroom. A woman sat behind a counter, idly polishing a lamp. Twilp grinned. Now for the prize.

Illustration by Illustration by Tomasz Chistowski

Upstairs, he found the merchant's bedroom. Two more guards stood at the door, which gaped to allow the breeze to circulate. They didn't even twitch when he slipped past them. Gauzy curtains billowed, the Black Dome and pyramid looming beyond. Some said everything from the inside of the fallen pyramid was cursed, but Twilp didn't believe it. Gold was the only thing he believed in.

Twilp tore his eyes away from the view, and skulked over to the merchant's bed. Big enough for six, it currently accommodated only three: the merchant, Lorisi Kepeshka, and two comely men, husbands or toys. Sweat glistened on their skin like the luster of precious metal. Like gold... The dagger hung from the headboard above Kepeshka's tousled black hair, worth enough to keep Twilp happy for months.

The halfling examined the serpent hilt and pommel, its fanged head and ruby eyes. Gaudy. As his fingers curled around the scaled hilt, however, the dagger's eyes came alight.

"Hello, little thief."

Twilp jerked his hand away, unsure for a moment if he'd heard the voice with his ears or in his head. His client, Lady Nikiri, hadn't told him it was haunted. Doesn't matter. As he reached again, a bead of sweat fell from his brow and plopped down right between Lorisi Kepeshka's eyes.

Twilp froze.

She stirred, one hand reaching up to wipe the drop away, her eyes blinking open. She stared right through the invisible burglar for a moment, then looked up to the dagger. She sighed, smiled, and reached for it.

Oh, no you don't! Twilp grabbed for it, and their hands touched the scabbarded weapon at the same instant.

"Well, this should be interesting," the voice said in his mind.

Lorisi Kepeshka's eyes flung wide. "Thief!"

Crap! Twilp jerked the dagger out of her grasp, and the weapon became invisible.

"The dagger! Thief!" Kepeshka's bedmates lurched up, and the door guards burst in, swords drawn.

"Kill her!" the voice said in Twilp's head. "Use me!"

Bugger off! Twilp backed away.

"Someone took the dagger!" Kepeshka vaulted out of bed. "They're invisible! Block the door and sweep the room!"

"Is that any way to talk to someone who can make you a god?" the voice of the dagger asked.

You can hear my thoughts?

"Yes, and read your greedy little soul, Twilp Farfan."

Great. Now shut up; I'm busy! He clipped the dagger to his belt and dashed for the window.

"Wait! Aren't you going to kill her? You really should, you know."

I'm a burglar, not an assassin. Twilp leapt and tore through the gauzy curtains.

"Oh, but her life force can be yours! I can give it to you!"

I don't want it. The burglar hit a canvas awning and slid. Anyone heavier would have torn right through, but Twilp didn't. "But it'll make you powerful, invulnerable, immortal!"

Don't particularly want those either. He flipped off the awning into the street, bowling down a man carrying a basket of flatbread.

"What kind of mortal are you?" The dagger sounded incredulous.

The kind who likes his life the way it is. Now shut up.

"Thief!" Kepeshka screeched from the window, pointing right at him. "Guards! After that thief!"

The two ground-floor guards drew their swords and advanced.

Twilp now understood why Lady Nikiri wanted the dagger. Denied the political power of her elder siblings, married to a lesser house, and now aging and bitter, the lure of power and immortality would be irresistible to her.

I'll settle for gold. Twilp dashed up the street.

"Coward," the dagger chided.

Twilp ignored it and ran.

"There!" one of the guards bellowed.

Twilp glanced back and saw the puffs of dust where his feet touched the street. They'd spotted him.

The burglar dodged under awnings, over, around, and under displays of goods, but they were hot on his heels, their longer legs doubling his best speed.

"Kill them! I'll make you a god!"

And deal with all that religion crap? No thanks! Twilp sprinted past the auction houses and into the Rose Quarter, trying to keep the dust of his passage down, but to no avail.

"There!" The guards were right on him.

Desperate, Twilp dodged into Wimiri's Bathhouse.

"Look! Footprints!"

Twilp glanced back at his dusty tracks on the otherwise spotless tile floor. Damn!

"Kill them!" the dagger screamed.

Shut up! The halfling dodged through a doorway and skidded to a stop inches before falling into a sunken bath crowded with chatting women sipping cool drinks. The guard chasing him wasn't so dexterous.

The man slammed into Twilp's back, and they both plunged into the bath. Twilp's head cracked the bottom of the shallow pool hard enough to stun him. He thrashed to the surface, women screaming, and a meaty fist closed on the neck of his jerkin.

"Got you, little thief!" The guard lifted him, raising his khopesh.

"Kill him!" the dagger bellowed in his mind. "Use me! It's your only chance!"

For once, Twilp agreed. He had to get free, and the blade hung at his belt. He drew it and stabbed the man's elbow.

"YES!"

Crimson light flooded the bath. The dagger's blade shone like a flaming ruby, pulsing with life as it pierced the guard's arm. The man drew a startled breath, eyes wide, not in pain, but in terror.

Flesh shriveled on the guard's bones, blood, life, and for all Twilp knew, his soul sucked away into the blade...and into Twilp. The dried husk of flesh crumbled, and the halfling hit the water.

The bathers erupted in panic, thrashing to get away from the spreading pall of ashes in the water.

"There, now." The dagger sounded satisfied. "Feel better?"

Twilp did feel better, his pain gone, his head clear, and he fairly bristled with energy. He felt like he could do anything, like he would live forever.

"And you can," the dagger assured him. "Every life you take with me will make you greater."

Twilp thought of it, immortality, power, riches, the helpless bathers fleeing around him, and almost puked. He thrashed out of the water and invoked the magic of his ring again, blinking into invisibility. Sheathing the dagger and snatching up a towel, he slipped out of the bathing room, avoiding the panicked patrons. The voice of the dagger rang in his head, urging him to sheath it in flesh, to drink their lives.

Quelling the temptation to become a god, Twilp crept into another wing of the establishment. Sheltered alcoves, each with a lidded commode, lined a wall beneath narrow windows.

Perfect! Twilp hopped up onto a bench and lifted the lid at his feet.

"What are you doing?"

He thought about what the dagger had promised him, and what someone like Lady Nikiri would do with it. The gold she had promised him suddenly seemed stained with blood.

Twilp drew the dagger.

"What are you doing?!"

"Saving my soul, you filthy piece of crap." Twilp held it over the dark pit.

"DON'T!"

Twilp released his grip and watched the blade's red glow vanish into the depths. With a wet plop, the crimson light winked out. Hundreds of patrons would bury the weapon deeper. Nobody would ever dig it up.

"Some treasures are better left buried." Twilp clambered up the wall to slip through the narrow window into the fresh air. "And some things are worth more than gold."

Chris A. Jackson
Contributing Author

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Tags: Pathfinder Tales Pathfinder World Guides Tales of Lost Omens Web Fiction
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Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Huzzah!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Love the start. I had to read it twice. Great stuff!

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, that was pretty great. I like Twilp, he seems an interesting sort of fellow.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Loved this story


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A good story poorly written. I hate the first two sentences (farts and freaking out Halfings, um, ok), and I don't know what "copulas" are, but I suspect they are similar to cupolas.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:
I don't know what "copulas" are, but I suspect they are similar to cupolas.

According to Webster's, a "copula" is a connecting word, in particular a form of the verb be connecting a subject and complement.

That's why spellcheck didn't catch it, but it's an easy enough fix. Thanks for helping out!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
A good story poorly written. I hate the first two sentences (farts and freaking out Halfings, um, ok),

Yeah, the "church fart" and "freaked [him] out" stood out as modernisms to me and felt obtrusive, though I suppose it establishes the irreverent tone of both the story and Twilp immediately. Plus, I at one point asked aloud reading it, "Oh, does he like gold?" Still, I thought it recovered nicely and ended well.

Quote:
and I don't know what "copulas" are, but I suspect they are similar to cupolas.

Eh, a minor typo already fixed by the time I got to read the story.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well there’s churches in Golarion. And spaceships. So modernism doesn’t really apply for a lot.

Great story I thought, I didn't like Twilp at first but he (and his single minded obsession with gold) grew on me. And then there was the awesome ending.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Pretty sure it was Chaucer who first used the word fart, so it's hardly modern.
I liked this story a lot! Although I could only imagine Twilp using the voice of Goldmember from Austin Powers. "I like gooooold!"

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

5 people marked this as a favorite.
shadram wrote:
I liked this story a lot! Although I could only imagine Twilp using the voice of Goldmember from Austin Powers. "I like gooooold!"

I had This Guy in mind, personally.

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I thought it was great! Hope to see more of Twilp in the future.


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I enjoyed it. The character reminded me mildly of Lift from Sanderson's Stormlight series, only an obsession with gold instead of food.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Smartest move he could make. The odds of him surviving the handoff to Nikiri were probably not high.

Unfortunately, she's probably going to assume he kept it for himself. So that will be fun for him.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Mark Moreland wrote:
shadram wrote:
I liked this story a lot! Although I could only imagine Twilp using the voice of Goldmember from Austin Powers. "I like gooooold!"
I had This Guy in mind, personally.

<-- quickly calls on the sounds of Bear and Serj Tankian to banish that image.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Smartest move he could make. The odds of him surviving the handoff to Nikiri were probably not high.

I dunno, he's a thief for hire. Generally speaking, if what you want isn't money, you pay those people and let them go on their way unless you're an idiot. Of course, Nikiri could easily be an idiot.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Unfortunately, she's probably going to assume he kept it for himself. So that will be fun for him.

If he's smart, she doesn't know either his name or what he looks like. Man has a Ring of Invisibility, he could've met with her invisibly to take the job.

I know if I could be invisible at will I'd never meet dangerous people without being unseen. I'd probably do something to disguise my voice, too.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I read Twilp Farfan and I knew I recognize that name somewhere. I scrolled to the end and saw Chris Jackson's name--now I can place the name!

I am happy to see Twilp's adventures continue beyond his presence in the Pathfinder novels.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

you see , you see you see?
there is honor among thieves ....


Matthew Morris wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
shadram wrote:
I liked this story a lot! Although I could only imagine Twilp using the voice of Goldmember from Austin Powers. "I like gooooold!"
I had This Guy in mind, personally.
<-- quickly calls on the sounds of Bear and Serj Tankian to banish that image.

Well, the stuff being poured in that video might explain the gassiness part of Twilip's description . . . that looks positively toxic.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Love the story esp. that after all the talk that only gold matters, he has limits how to achieve it.

Regarding the wording "church fart" does not seem modernism to me. People in the middle ages talked a lot like that or worse^^


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I like some modernisms with my fantasy, makes it clear it's not a History Channel documentary about the middle ages - it's a wholly different world. I don't see why a land with invisibility rings, fallen sky pyramids, halflings, magic talking daggers, ginormous beetle shells used as royal palaces... should otherwise perfectly cleave to some real authentic historical period - who cares honestly? It's frickin' fantasy, rule of cool and rule of fun for the win.

I also love how Twilp disposes of the dagger. The only problem I foresee is an otyugh eating it, a party slaying the otyugh and recovering it, and another, more bloodthirsty Razmir rising... ugh.


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^Hmmm . . . you suppose something like this had something to do with the original Razmir . . . ?

Dark Archive

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In general, crude language tends to be far older than most people think

Also I don't think anybody called this medieval, but since it was brought up, again pathfinder is more of renaissance or early industrialization. Or rather combination of two


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Roswynn wrote:
I also love how Twilp disposes of the dagger. The only problem I foresee is an otyugh eating it, a party slaying the otyugh and recovering it, and another, more bloodthirsty Razmir rising... ugh.

Or the poor otyugh gets corrupted itself. :( As Oblivion Oath showed, they are intelligent and have names and families and desires.

Then there'd be a would be otyugh-god with a life-sucking dagger in its tentacles running around in the sewers.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wow...

That dagger is in some deep.... Trouble.

You could say the dagger is the.... Treasured...uhh... thing.

Don't want that floating back up to bite you in the... back?

Wow.

Contributor

11 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the comments everyone. Wow, never thought there would be such a lot of comments about the word "fart." HA! Provoked a little etymology exercise, I guess.

Twilp showed up in all three of my novels, and I kind of had a soft spot in my heart for him. Not the first time he's been cornered into an difficult situation by agreeing to steal something for someone powerful...


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Finally! A Scoundrel that actually listens to their conscience!

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Good to see Chris Jackson's name show up on some fiction again. I really miss the Tales series.

Sovereign Court

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Chris A Jackson wrote:

Thanks for the comments everyone. Wow, never thought there would be such a lot of comments about the word "fart." HA! Provoked a little etymology exercise, I guess.

Twilp showed up in all three of my novels, and I kind of had a soft spot in my heart for him. Not the first time he's been cornered into an difficult situation by agreeing to steal something for someone powerful...

I think it’s specifically ‘church fart’ which evokes a certain modern cultural view (of farts and of church) which does not align neatly with a broad pantheistic faith.

Are people being shamed for their farts in the midst of a noisy Desnan revel? Or a Lamashtan torture-sacrifice? It’s not the modernity, it’s the ‘our reality not theirs’ feel.

‘Freaking out’ has a similar effect: it is very much a slang product of a cultural evolution of the word ‘freak’ which arrived here via Victorian circuses and post-war hippies. It feels not just very ‘now’ but very ‘here and now’.

Belabouring the point about liking gold was also a bit overbearing.

However, having loved your other writing, I kept reading and loved the tale. You are very good at kinetic scenes which still retain a sense of character: a wonderful chase, delightfully-crafted temptation and excellent ending.

And I am so very glad to see the return of Golarion web-fiction.

Huzzar!

Sovereign Court

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I just had a thought: this was a reverse ‘liar’s blade’!


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Pharasma is one of the most prominent gods in Osirion, and I can imagine that a fart in most cases would be looked down on in those temples. Also most people aren’t “pantheistic” in Golarion. They tend to focus on one deity over others.

I really don’t see the issue with some of the phrasing. It’s not medieval times, it’s a fantastical city in fictional reborn Egypt after a bunch of flying pyramids fell out of the sky, it honestly just feels like nit picking.

Liberty's Edge

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VerBeeker wrote:
Pharasma is one of the most prominent gods in Osirion, and I can imagine that a fart in most cases would be looked down on in those temples.

I'd think this sort of thing would be thought of as disrespectful in most temples. I mean, maybe not Cayden Cailean's, but him aside...

VerBeeker wrote:
Also most people aren’t “pantheistic” in Golarion. They tend to focus on one deity over others.

This is not entirely true. Clerics and other Divine characters tend to focus on one deity, but there's a fair degree of evidence that most common people worship a variety of Gods. Now, most temples are to one specifically, but that just means you go to different ones for different things at different times.

VerBeeker wrote:
I really don’t see the issue with some of the phrasing. It’s not medieval times, it’s a fantastical city in fictional reborn Egypt after a bunch of flying pyramids fell out of the sky, it honestly just feels like nit picking.

Here I agree. It seems nitpicky in an odd way.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

[...]

VerBeeker wrote:
Also most people aren’t “pantheistic” in Golarion. They tend to focus on one deity over others.

This is not entirely true. Clerics and other Divine characters tend to focus on one deity, but there's a fair degree of evidence that most common people worship a variety of Gods. Now, most temples are to one specifically, but that just means you go to different ones for different things at different times.

[...]

I see it as similar to Japan. Just before exam? You go to a shrine/temple related to studies. On the end of pregnancy? You go to a shrine/temple for easy childbirth (Pharasma). Going to open your first store? You go to Abadar... There's quite a lot of hints about that in the books.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Most of Golarion is polytheistic, with many people being effectively henotheistic in practice. Clerics, paladins, and other priests take their henotheism to the level of monolatry. Nobody, not even the Rahadoumi, actually denies the existence of the gods, and monotheism doesn't ever really seem to have become fashionable anywhere.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It seems to me that in large part, people from a predominately monotheistic society (ours, for example) have trouble role-playing people from a predominately polytheistic society. Henotheism may be as far as they can go.


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Ed Reppert wrote:
It seems to me that in large part, people from a predominately monotheistic society (ours, for example) have trouble role-playing people from a predominately polytheistic society. Henotheism may be as far as they can go.

I'm not sure how much it's players having trouble with it and how much that's the way the game has been structured since the AD&D days - religion focused around clerics (and later other divine casters) tied to single gods.

That's how the mechanics were set up and thus how most of the world building has been done.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
It seems to me that in large part, people from a predominately monotheistic society (ours, for example) have trouble role-playing people from a predominately polytheistic society. Henotheism may be as far as they can go.

I'm not sure how much it's players having trouble with it and how much that's the way the game has been structured since the AD&D days - religion focused around clerics (and later other divine casters) tied to single gods.

That's how the mechanics were set up and thus how most of the world building has been done.

I never took Cleric choosing one god to be an example of the rest of the society, and rather saw much more of an henotheistic world building... but I'm "polytheist" myself, so that might be my own bias...


Shisumo wrote:
{. . .} monotheism doesn't ever really seem to have become fashionable anywhere.

Razmir is trying REAL HARD. Arguably, Asmodeus is also trying, but in a more subtle way, that would be more likely to succeed in the long run, if only it hadn't been set back by whatever caused him to lose status by Starfinder time.

Liberty's Edge

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Razmir is trying REAL HARD. Arguably, Asmodeus is also trying, but in a more subtle way, that would be more likely to succeed in the long run, if only it hadn't been set back by whatever caused him to lose status by Starfinder time.

Based on his status in other regions of Golarion, it's more his status in the core 20 of the Inner Sea Region that's anomalous. He's in that august company pretty much solely due to the Thrune family having made a deal. Any place and time where a governing body hasn't made such a deal, his followers are reduced to the status of a cult, and one nobody much likes.


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^Then that would indicate that he didn't actually take a fall except locally. Making deals to entrap everyone, one nation at a time, is a valid (although very evil) way to take over the universe. So despite the setback on Golarion, he might be on schedule for the universe or at least the galaxy as a whole. Let's see where things stand in a few million years (GalaxyClusterFinder?) . . . .


Excellent piece of flash fiction. I really enjoyed seeing the limits and expectations of invisibility explored in a story format. It is a very difficult mechanic to have consensus around in play and it is very cool to see that reflected in fiction.

PS: I would love to read a piece of flash fiction that did a similar take on illusion magic. Specifically from the perspective of an illusionist who feels like their illusions should be more convincing and distracting but is missing some element of how people perceive the world around them.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
{. . .} monotheism doesn't ever really seem to have become fashionable anywhere.

Razmir is trying REAL HARD. Arguably, Asmodeus is also trying, but in a more subtle way, that would be more likely to succeed in the long run, if only it hadn't been set back by whatever caused him to lose status by Starfinder time.

Asmodeus, more than any other god we're aware of, has the least need to try to push his religion, because he's the only god who gets all unattached souls of a particular alignment - if you're LE but not promised to a particular god you're headed to hell, and Asmodeus or his minions scoops up all those souls.

No other god has such a default role for unattached souls.


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There's also that detail regarding Asmodeus being one of the 2 primeval deities in the Great Beyond (the other one having had a fatal case of the stabbings), plus being one of the main deities involved in the imprisonment of Rovagug (Sarenrae was fighting it mainly to distract it from Asmodeus' trap).


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

Also, I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that gods in the Lost Omen setting don't really "need" followers. Their power is not relative to them like in Forgotten Realm.


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Elfteiroh wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that gods in the Lost Omen setting don't really "need" followers. Their power is not relative to them like in Forgotten Realm.

Gods don't need them for personal power (for things like punching another god in the nose or erasing a few stars). They do need souls for creating more outsiders or growing the plane they inhabit. Asmodeus is interested in both of those outcomes.

Liberty's Edge

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Roswynn wrote:
There's also that detail regarding Asmodeus being one of the 2 primeval deities in the Great Beyond (the other one having had a fatal case of the stabbings),

This is Asmodeus's story. It's presented in purely in-character text as the story he tells.

It is a lie. Asmodeus was an angel who rebelled and led others in rebellion and went off to conquer and rule Hell. This is stated several places in the out-of-character sections Archdevil deity articles, and is thus canonically supported.

In-universe you can easily believe either, but the latter is correct.

Roswynn wrote:
plus being one of the main deities involved in the imprisonment of Rovagug (Sarenrae was fighting it mainly to distract it from Asmodeus' trap).

It wasn't solely Asmodeus's trap, but yes, this is substantially correct.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Roswynn wrote:
There's also that detail regarding Asmodeus being one of the 2 primeval deities in the Great Beyond (the other one having had a fatal case of the stabbings),

This is Asmodeus's story. It's presented in purely in-character text as the story he tells.

It is a lie. Asmodeus was an angel who rebelled and led others in rebellion and went off to conquer and rule Hell. This is stated several places in the out-of-character sections Archdevil deity articles, and is thus canonically supported.

In-universe you can easily believe either, but the latter is correct.

What does "angel who rebelled" even mean in the context of Golarion and a non monotheistic universe?

Liberty's Edge

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thejeff wrote:
What does "angel who rebelled" even mean in the context of Golarion and a non monotheistic universe?

The LG Angels are pretty hierarchal. He was one of those. He rebelled against their whole social system rather than a specific deity (and rebelled successfully), but he still rebelled.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Roswynn wrote:
There's also that detail regarding Asmodeus being one of the 2 primeval deities in the Great Beyond (the other one having had a fatal case of the stabbings),

This is Asmodeus's story. It's presented in purely in-character text as the story he tells.

It is a lie. Asmodeus was an angel who rebelled and led others in rebellion and went off to conquer and rule Hell. This is stated several places in the out-of-character sections Archdevil deity articles, and is thus canonically supported.

In-universe you can easily believe either, but the latter is correct.

Tabris wrote BotD, not Asmodeus. And either way, those are not mutually exclusive viewpoints.

Liberty's Edge

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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
Tabris wrote BotD, not Asmodeus.

Sure, but he explicitly got that one in Hell from Devils. It's the official story.

SOLDIER-1st wrote:
And either way, those are not mutually exclusive viewpoints.

They really are. Tabris's story is that Asmodeus was one of the first two beings in existence and that he murdered the other while they were still the rulers of all and just after they created everything, while the 'rebel angel' story clearly indicates that as pretty blatantly untrue timing-wise (since his rebellion happened much later than that), and power-wise (since he was not the highest ranking angel around).

Now, he might very plausibly have murdered his brother in both versions, but they are substantively different.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
SOLDIER-1st wrote:
Tabris wrote BotD, not Asmodeus.

Sure, but he explicitly got that one in Hell from Devils. It's the official story.

SOLDIER-1st wrote:
And either way, those are not mutually exclusive viewpoints.

They really are. Tabris's story is that Asmodeus was one of the first two beings in existence and that he murdered the other while they were still the rulers of all and just after they created everything, while the 'rebel angel' story clearly indicates that as pretty blatantly untrue timing-wise (since his rebellion happened much later than that), and power-wise (since he was not the highest ranking angel around).

Now, he might very plausibly have murdered his brother in both versions, but they are substantively different.

The same story is in CoR, which was written before BotD and also doesn’t involve devils.

I don’t understand your reasoning for the timing incompatibility, and I don’t recall enough of the rebellion to comment (I will refresh myself tomorrow).

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