The Broken Lands

Tuesday, June 4, 2019

Continuing our preview of the ten meta-regions of the Lost Omens World Guide, releasing in August, this week we take a look at the Broken Lands. This region occupies the northeastern corner of Avistan, consisting of Brevoy, Mendev, Numeria, Razmiran, the River Kingdoms, and the Sarkoris Scar (what used to be the Worldwound). While many parts of the world could be described as "broken," this region is particularly scarred by political upheaval, war, and demonic invasion. Player characters in these lands are likely to find rival factions competing for control of a government on the edge of collapse, open conflict between opposing city- or nation-states, or the remnants of the Abyssal horde now cut off from their demonic home plane and stranded in a world no longer focused on eradicating the threat they present.

Illustration by Federico Musetti

Unlike Absalom, which we examined last week, there have been several adventure paths and standalone modules set in the Broken Lands whose outcomes we've canonically codified into the second edition status quo. Among these are Iron Gods, Kingmaker, and Wrath of the Righteous.

In Numeria, the Technic League has fallen from power, leaving Black Sovereign, Kevoth-Kul to kick his addiction to the mind-muddling drugs they'd been feeding him for years all on his own. What erratic behavior may come from the throes of withdrawal, and what political factions may vie to replace the league as the power behind the throne remains to be seen. Perhaps the adherents of the new goddess, Casandalee, will play a role?

Illustration by Valeria Lutfullina and Rogier van de Beek

In the River Kingdoms, a new nation rose in the Stolen Lands (conveniently left unnamed so that the kingdom you created in your Kingmaker campaign doesn't invalidate canon) and overtook Pitax.

In neighboring Brevoy, a king left at the altar has brought the lands of Issia and Rostland closer to war than ever before. Meanwhile, the previously abandoned and sealed Skywatch presents a new mystery for adventurers uninterested in the feuds of the nation's noble houses.

Illustration by Klaher Baklaher

Queen Galfrey of Mendev, kept alive with sun orchid elixir to ensure constant leadership against the agents of the Abyss, has been given a well-earned retirement, and has left the nation in the capable hands of Chancellor Irahai. The end of the Mendevian Crusades, however, has left the nation without purpose or common threat, and the chancellor has her work cut out for her in unifying the people to foster a national culture long overshadowed by the threat of war and legions of foreign crusaders calling the northern land home.

Illustration by Cynthia F. G.

In what was formerly the Worldwound—closed when mythic heroes defeated the demon lord Deskari—demons still lay claim to the tainted wasteland. While before they could count on endless reinforcements from the heart of the Abyss, the surviving demons and cultists are now cut off from their home plane and desperate to survive. The native Sarkorians who once called the land home have begun to return and reclaim their ancestral homeland, but they won't find its current inhabitants particularly welcoming. With the help of remnant crusaders not yet turned south to face the rising threat of the Whispering Tyrant and the strange outsiders that the Sarkorians call their gods, perhaps they can heal the Sarkoris Scar and make it into a stable, fertile land once again.

Illustration by Rogier van de Beek

In Razmiran, once merely a River Kingdom and now a nation in its own right, life continues as it did before the Whispering Tyrant's escape, its citizens taking solace in the knowledge that their land is protected by a benevolent deity, Razmir. The Living God has not opposed the Whispering Tyrant and a constant stream of "donated" corpses to the lich's armies has ensured a tenuous peace between the two powers.

This chapter of the Lost Omens World Guide presents seven new character backgrounds and the Aldori duelist archetype, which allows player characters to master the iconic dueling style of Brevoy's Aldori swordlords!

Illustration by Klaher Baklaher

On Thursday, be sure to check out the second in our Tales of Lost Omens series of flash fiction, written by veteran Pathfinder Tales author Tim Pratt, who previously explored the region in the pages of the novels Liar's Blade and Reign of Stars. Next week, we'll look at the Eye of Dread along the shores of Lake Encarthan, where the shroud of undeath has once again fallen upon the world.

Mark Moreland
Franchise Manager

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Tags: Pathfinder Lost Omens
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Liberty's Edge

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Michael Sayre wrote:
The Painted Oryx wrote:
Is that Sarkorian flag intentionally Haida-esque? It looks great! Really interested to learn more about Sarkorians! So far this book looks amazing. Can it be August already?
Maybe just a teensy bit. I'm Tlingit and I liked the idea of seeing more of the PNW arts and cultures represented in Paizo's books, so I may have nudged the World Book devs with some suggestions I had for what the new Sarkoris Scar flag might look like as the Sarkorians and their gods gather together again.

Would looooove to see more Native American/Indigenous Point-Of-View in Pathfinder, hell, in general!

Dark Archive

Why does everyone think Iomedae will definitely have new herald?

I mean, I thought that if her herald was redeemed that the herald essentially goes on sabbatical until they think they are worthy of being the herald again and pc is more of substitute herald?


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CorvusMask wrote:

Why does everyone think Iomedae will definitely have new herald?

I mean, I thought that if her herald was redeemed that the herald essentially goes on sabbatical until they think they are worthy of being the herald again and pc is more of substitute herald?

Well, it's unlikely to be exactly the last outsider to fill the position

Spoiler:
Since he either dies, or resigns
.

I would assume Iomedae would prefer to promote someone else from within rather than wait for the old herald to feel up for it.

Dark Archive

I guess that is true, outsider "Journey to redeem yourself" might take thousand years :p

Dark Archive

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Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth:
Quote:
The appointment should last for the rest of this Adventure Path, after which the PC's term of service as herald ends and the job goes back to a unique CR 15 outsider of Iomedae's choice.

Per the adventure, Iomedae picks a new herald. GMs could choose to let the PC stay Herald, but that's as canon as "In our RotR, the PCs joined up with goblins and burned Sandpoint to the ground"

Contributor

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Desna's Avatar wrote:
Nice overview of the Broken Lands and excellent illustrations (which I vastly prefer to the anime style). The top few especially reflect the "feel" of this region, while the topmost illustrates that beauty can yet exist amidst the scarred terrain of these lands.

Yes!! I agree wholeheartedly. I love the art Paizo gets; it's so varied in style but always incredibly evocative.

And I've always been partial to mysterious landscapes too. Cool character designs are nifty to look at (that Kevoth-Kul illustration is amazing!), but there's just something about an eerie landscape or ruined city stretching off toward the horizon that always makes me want to set a story, or a game, in that place. What is it? Why does it look that way? What's the significance of the details in that landscape? SO MANY QUESTIONS.

Which is all a long way of saying: I love that piece too, and I'm so glad you gave it some praise. :)

It is really cool seeing this stuff. So often I see a picture and think "that's awesome, I want to write about that." Watching it unfold the other way, where you write the thing first and then some really talented artists pull the words into color and life, is a weird but really special feeling.

Dark Archive

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I've been wondering about that demon(?) skull :D Like is that someone we could recognize from Wrath? I can't even tell what demon's skull it is

I think Broken Lands image is gonna be really hard to top

That said, I definitely liked the "anime"(I'm not sure that is correct word, but let's go with that) style images that were more common in early pathfinder(probably because that artist doesn't do work for the company after that early point anymore?) :P But I don't think there is anything wrong with liking multiple art styles

Contributor

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Michael Sayre wrote:
The Painted Oryx wrote:
Is that Sarkorian flag intentionally Haida-esque? It looks great! Really interested to learn more about Sarkorians! So far this book looks amazing. Can it be August already?
Maybe just a teensy bit. I'm Tlingit and I liked the idea of seeing more of the PNW arts and cultures represented in Paizo's books, so I may have nudged the World Book devs with some suggestions I had for what the new Sarkoris Scar flag might look like as the Sarkorians and their gods gather together again.

It's a unique look, though I'd always gotten a Slavic/Siberian shamanistic theme for Old Sarkoris.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Anorak wrote:
Michael Sayre wrote:
The Painted Oryx wrote:
Is that Sarkorian flag intentionally Haida-esque? It looks great! Really interested to learn more about Sarkorians! So far this book looks amazing. Can it be August already?
Maybe just a teensy bit. I'm Tlingit and I liked the idea of seeing more of the PNW arts and cultures represented in Paizo's books, so I may have nudged the World Book devs with some suggestions I had for what the new Sarkoris Scar flag might look like as the Sarkorians and their gods gather together again.
Would looooove to see more Native American/Indigenous Point-Of-View in Pathfinder, hell, in general!

+1,000 - love the Haida/Tlingit-inspired banner of Sarkoris, and it would be great to have more Arcadian, Mwangi, Keleshite and Tian characters in the various APs! After all, as JJ said, there are trade routes everywhere and most knowledgeable people know about the other continents.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:

It's a unique look, though I'd always gotten a Slavic/Siberian shamanistic theme for Old Sarkoris.

I can't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall that Old Sarkoris was also where the Celtish-Pictish analog had been located.

But what I'm more interested in is whether there'll be mechanical representation to play the god-callers, since we no longer have a summoner class.

Dark Archive

Summoner is one of those classes that will probably make return. It had niche you can't just do with archetypes and it was flavorful niche too.

Liberty's Edge

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PossibleCabbage wrote:

I figure "they are off deep in the planes dealing with some unspecified but extremely pressing threat" is sufficient if the players had not previously written their characters off into the sunset.

Like I would buy "Tar-Baphon is below their pay grade" for that group.

This is, of course, the obvious solution. I just think it needs a brief mention.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I figure "they are off deep in the planes dealing with some unspecified but extremely pressing threat" is sufficient if the players had not previously written their characters off into the sunset.

Like I would buy "Tar-Baphon is below their pay grade" for that group.

This is, of course, the obvious solution. I just think it needs a brief mention.

Another solution is to have them succeed in taking out Deskari, but never returning. Divinations reveal nothing, and the gods won't speak of them. What does it mean? Whatever you like.

Liberty's Edge

Evan Tarlton wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I figure "they are off deep in the planes dealing with some unspecified but extremely pressing threat" is sufficient if the players had not previously written their characters off into the sunset.

Like I would buy "Tar-Baphon is below their pay grade" for that group.

This is, of course, the obvious solution. I just think it needs a brief mention.
Another solution is to have them succeed in taking out Deskari, but never returning. Divinations reveal nothing, and the gods won't speak of them. What does it mean? Whatever you like.

Also a potentially valid option, though it's a bit more ominous, which isn't great for former PCs.


But I thought that the Whispering Tyrant will be killed by the PCs once and for all in the final book of Tyrant's Grasp. How can he still be alive in Second Edition?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aenigma wrote:
But I thought that the Whispering Tyrant will be killed by the PCs once and for all in the final book of Tyrant's Grasp. How can he still be alive in Second Edition?

Killing him is not the same as destroying his Phylacerty, which is I am pretty sure something that does not happen in Grasp. My money is on they destroy his current body and a large chuck of his army, setting him back to having to reform and rebuild his forces. Hell the shard of certain exploding shield implanted in his current body is just asking to explode in his face...


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Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:
Aenigma wrote:
But I thought that the Whispering Tyrant will be killed by the PCs once and for all in the final book of Tyrant's Grasp. How can he still be alive in Second Edition?
Killing him is not the same as destroying his Phylacerty, which is I am pretty sure something that does not happen in Grasp. My money is on they destroy his current body and a large chuck of his army, setting him back to having to reform and rebuild his forces. Hell the shard of certain exploding shield implanted in his current body is just asking to explode in his face...

So we can read most of the Core Rulebook page devoted to the Eye of Dread in the video from the UK Games Expo interview. You can see those images here.

I've done my best to transcribe, though a line of glare down the middle of the second column has left me scattering some (???) through the second half where I could make out the text.

Spoilered for anyone who wants to wait for next week's blog.

EYE OF DREAD:
Core Rulebook wrote:

The heart of the continent of Avistan has rotted.

This region is dominated by Lake Encarthan, a large inland sea that was—until recently—a well-traveled hub for trade. To the southwest stands the militaristic nation of Molthune, which had long engaged in an intermittent war against its northern neighbor, Nirmathas, a wooded nation populated by folk who take their freedom seriously. An uprising of hobgoblins took advantage of this conflict, and while hostilities have since abated, the two nations now share their borders with a third: the newborn hobgoblin nation Oprak.

North of these war-torn nations lie two other lands equally forged in the crucible of conflict. Until recently, the paladins and protectors of the small but strong nation of Lastwall stood fast against invasions from orcs, undead, and the like. The wild and rugged Hold of Blekzen, meanwhile, has long been held by those orcs, ever since they were driven up from the Darklands below by the dwarves during their Quest for Sky thousands of years ago.

Still farther to the north is the nation of Ustalav, a collection of countries each beset with its own manifestation of horror and fear, ranging from the nightmarishly cosmic to the dreadfully infernal.

It was from Ustalav that one of the (???) threats to the Inner Sea region emerged. The arch-lich Tar-Baphon—known as the Whispering Tyrant—has been defeated twice in the distant past—once by (???) and once by the heroes of the Shining Crusade, but he has never been truly destroyed. When the magical (???) that kept him imprisoned below the ominous (???) of Gallowspire were finally sundered in 4719 AR, Tar-Baphon emerged, bringing with him devastation on such a scale that the one-time nation of Lastwall, which bore the brunt of his return to the world, has been utterly scoured. It exists now only as the Gravelands—a nation that once stood watch over the undead uprising (???) consigned to an undead of its own. While heroes temporarily thwarted the Whispering Tyrant's immediat(???) shortly after he emerged, the lich remains an active (???).

The Whispering Tyrant now rules a kingdom of the undead on the aptly named Isle of Terror in the center of Lake Encarthan. The nations lining lake Encarthan's shores have all suffered to varying degrees under the Whispering Tyrant's renewed influence, and some are pursuing unlikely alliances to (???) him. The lich is gathering his resources on the Isle of Terror, and none can say where or when he will strike next.


So Iomedae’s original Herald, the hand of the inheritor is officially gone now?


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Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:
Aenigma wrote:
But I thought that the Whispering Tyrant will be killed by the PCs once and for all in the final book of Tyrant's Grasp. How can he still be alive in Second Edition?
Killing him is not the same as destroying his Phylacerty, which is I am pretty sure something that does not happen in Grasp. My money is on they destroy his current body and a large chuck of his army, setting him back to having to reform and rebuild his forces. Hell the shard of certain exploding shield implanted in his current body is just asking to explode in his face...

I would in fact be surprised if Tyrant's Grasp even reveals what Tar-Baphon's phylactery is, honestly.

He seems to be being set up as a "big bad" of second edition kinda like the Worldwound/Deskari was. Assuming he gets defeated permanently, I'd guess it'll take a whole other AP dedicated to finding/destroying his phylactery.

Silver Crusade

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tqomins wrote:
Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:
Aenigma wrote:
But I thought that the Whispering Tyrant will be killed by the PCs once and for all in the final book of Tyrant's Grasp. How can he still be alive in Second Edition?
Killing him is not the same as destroying his Phylacerty, which is I am pretty sure something that does not happen in Grasp. My money is on they destroy his current body and a large chuck of his army, setting him back to having to reform and rebuild his forces. Hell the shard of certain exploding shield implanted in his current body is just asking to explode in his face...

So we can read most of the Core Rulebook page devoted to the Eye of Dread in the video from the UK Games Expo interview. You can see those images here.

I've done my best to transcribe, though a line of glare down the middle of the second column has left me scattering some (???) through the second half where I could make out the text.

Spoilered for anyone who wants to wait for next week's blog.

** spoiler omitted **

...

Based on knowledge of Tar-Baphon, I can fill in at least a couple blanks for you

for your spoilers:

has been defeated twice in the distant past—once by (???) - this would be Aroden
When the magical (???) that kept him imprisoned below the ominous (???) of Gallowspire - the magical seal that kept him imprisoned below the ominous tower of Gallowspire


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I do like this information but it does sound too much like a rip off of Vecna's return.


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I mean, major NPC liches have basically two modes:
-Dormant
-Active threat

So good ol' Tar-Baphon just transitioned from state 1 to state 2.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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We would have kept next week's reveals a secret if it weren't for you meddling nerds and your CSI image inhancement tools!!!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

That said, I'm excited to see the rest of next week's reveals, because the Broken Lands are my favorite area of the Inner Sea


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Ah yes, good old image enhancers... able to miraculously transmute a grainy, blurry pic into a marvelously detailed work of art, make the most minute writing clearly legible, reveal that the eyes of a distant perp are hazel with grey flecks... how would any police department get anything done without them, I wonder ;)


Porridge wrote:


That’s a good angle. Or maybe even the mythic heroes *needed* to be on the abyssal side to close the Worldwound, and sacrificed themselves to do so. That would also explain their absence in a suitably heroic way.

If ever there was an AP that worked as a Bolivian Army Ending WotR was it.

Quote:


(I’m sure they’ll leave the details open, though, to ensure no one’s run through WotR conflicts with canon.)

I was kind of hoping for some canonical outcome for Alderpash, though if that were going to turn up at all Return of the Runelords would have been the place for it.


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Roswynn wrote:
Ah yes, good old image enhancers... able to miraculously transmute a grainy, blurry pic into a marvelously detailed work of art, make the most minute writing clearly legible, reveal that the eyes of a distant perp are hazel with grey flecks... how would any police department get anything done without them, I wonder ;)

Only when the plot demands it, of course.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Todd Stewart wrote:
Michael Sayre wrote:
The Painted Oryx wrote:
Is that Sarkorian flag intentionally Haida-esque? It looks great! Really interested to learn more about Sarkorians! So far this book looks amazing. Can it be August already?
Maybe just a teensy bit. I'm Tlingit and I liked the idea of seeing more of the PNW arts and cultures represented in Paizo's books, so I may have nudged the World Book devs with some suggestions I had for what the new Sarkoris Scar flag might look like as the Sarkorians and their gods gather together again.
It's a unique look, though I'd always gotten a Slavic/Siberian shamanistic theme for Old Sarkoris.

I think the main thing to remember there is that Old Sarkoris =/= Sarkoris Scar. There's been a 113 years of displacement for those clans, many of whom found homes amongst other countries and cultures who shared their animistic views and accepted their religious practices (and others who greeted them with fear and intolerance, as happened in Ustalav). Even many of those whose families never truly stopped fighting against the Worldwound were as likely to have children with one of the many foreigners flocking north to fight the forces of evil than they were to have children with one of their few remaining kinsfolk. Because of this, the people of the Sarkoris Scar are much more diverse than the Kellid peoples of Old Sarkoris were.

There's also other established cultural practices of the Sarkorians that speak to PNW culture as much as to any other real-world culture; Sarkorians kept totems depicting their clan's deity, which was pretty much always an animal-themed eidolon of some sort. Other phrases we've used to describe the people of Old Sarkoris, like "painted warriors" while it can certainly evoke Pictish imagery, could just as easily be referring to someone garbed like this or this. Or all of them, since individual Sarkorian clans had fairly unique practices and iconography.

YMMV, but I think the game is better served by presenting a "new" culture born from diverse roots and the stories we've been telling than it is by having 3+ countries worth of monolithic Kellids who are all thinly veiled analogues for a single historical group, and who never grew or changed from one another despite supposedly diverse cultural practices and drastically different environments. And if more than one group of real-world people see some portion of themselves reflected in one of our fantasy cultures, all the better.

Silver Crusade

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Cori Marie wrote:
That said, I'm excited to see the rest of next week's reveals, because the Broken Lands are my favorite area of the Inner Sea

Err I meant the Eye of Dread is my favorite area, not the Broken Lands.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
tqomins wrote:
Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:
Aenigma wrote:
But I thought that the Whispering Tyrant will be killed by the PCs once and for all in the final book of Tyrant's Grasp. How can he still be alive in Second Edition?
Killing him is not the same as destroying his Phylacerty, which is I am pretty sure something that does not happen in Grasp. My money is on they destroy his current body and a large chuck of his army, setting him back to having to reform and rebuild his forces. Hell the shard of certain exploding shield implanted in his current body is just asking to explode in his face...

So we can read most of the Core Rulebook page devoted to the Eye of Dread in the video from the UK Games Expo interview. You can see those images here.

I've done my best to transcribe, though a line of glare down the middle of the second column has left me scattering some (???) through the second half where I could make out the text.

Spoilered for anyone who wants to wait for next week's blog.

The banquet slides are marginally more readable. I've filled in the missing words

Eye of Dread:
Core Rulebook wrote:

The heart of the continent of Avistan has rotted.

This region is dominated by Lake Encarthan, a large inland sea that was—until recently—a well-traveled hub for trade. To the southwest stands the militaristic nation of Molthune, which had long engaged in an intermittent war against its northern neighbor, Nirmathas, a wooded nation populated by folk who take their freedom seriously. An uprising of hobgoblins took advantage of this conflict, and while hostilities have since abated, the two nations now share their borders with a third: the newborn hobgoblin nation Oprak.

North of these war-torn nations lie two other lands equally forged in the crucible of conflict. Until recently, the paladins and protectors of the small but strong nation of Lastwall stood fast against invasions from orcs, undead, and the like. The wild and rugged Hold of Blekzen, meanwhile, has long been held by those orcs, ever since they were driven up from the Darklands below by the dwarves during their Quest for Sky thousands of years ago.

Still farther to the north is the nation of Ustalav, a collection of countries each beset with its own manifestation of horror and fear, ranging from the nightmarishly cosmic to the dreadfully infernal.

It was from Ustalav that one of the greatest threats to the Inner Sea region emerged. The arch-lich Tar-Baphon—known as the Whispering Tyrant—has been defeated twice in the distant past—once by Aroden and once by the heroes of the Shining Crusade, but he has never been truly destroyed. When the magical seals that kept him imprisoned below the ominous tower of Gallowspire were finally sundered in 4719 AR, Tar-Baphon emerged, bringing with him devastation on such a scale that the one-time nation of Lastwall, which bore the brunt of his return to the world, has been utterly scoured. It exists now only as the Gravelands—a nation that once stood watch over the undead uprising now consigned to an undeath of its own. While heroes temporarily thwarted the Whispering Tyrant's immediate plans shortly after he emerged, the lich remains an active menace.

The Whispering Tyrant now rules a kingdom of the undead on the aptly named Isle of Terror in the center of Lake Encarthan. The nations lining lake Encarthan's shores have all suffered to varying degrees under the Whispering Tyrant's renewed influence, and some are pursuing unlikely alliances to resist him. The lich is gathering his resources on the Isle of Terror, and none can say where or when he will strike next.

Grand Lodge

Spoiler:
As a gm running tyrant grasp,I feel so sad to know that my pc cannot beat TB to wholly destroy.
would be another shinning crusade.

i cant wait to see the old chelix part to check out what happen to nidal after RotR ,since
Spoiler:
there is another country who stand after starfall


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I feel like the final AP for first edition was less to "permanently put to bed a looming threat" and more "to establish another 'no go' area uncomfortably close to major population centers to replace the Worldwound."

I mean, that the Worldwound was effectively contained by the wardstones sort of prevented them from doing a lot with it other than "close it".


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Mark Moreland wrote:
We would have kept next week's reveals a secret if it weren't for you meddling nerds and your CSI image inhancement tools!!!

Just be glad none of us has enough skill to type randomly on a keyboard or else we would've hacked the entire book right out from under you.


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FedoraFerret wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
We would have kept next week's reveals a secret if it weren't for you meddling nerds and your CSI image inhancement tools!!!
Just be glad none of us has enough skill to type randomly on a keyboard or else we would've hacked the entire book right out from under you.

Once I get enough monkeys and typewriters I will be sure to get an early copy.

Dark Archive

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FedoraFerret wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
We would have kept next week's reveals a secret if it weren't for you meddling nerds and your CSI image inhancement tools!!!
Just be glad none of us has enough skill to type randomly on a keyboard or else we would've hacked the entire book right out from under you.

Imagine if we had the NCIS skills to get two people on one keyboard. We'd have the LOWG too

Silver Crusade

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But 2nd ed D&D was 30 years ago, the number of old players who still consider Vecna a relevant point of reference for anything is dwindling, and the new "Hi, I'm here because Matt Mercer and Critical Role" entrants into the hobby barely know who Drizzt and Elimnster are, let alone some obscure lich who last time popped up in the early 90s.


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Gorbacz wrote:
But 2nd ed D&D was 30 years ago, the number of old players who still consider Vecna a relevant point of reference for anything is dwindling, and the new "Hi, I'm here because Matt Mercer and Critical Role" entrants into the hobby barely know who Drizzt and Elimnster are, let alone some obscure lich who last time popped up in the early 90s.

Wasn't Vecna the BBEG of Critical Role's first season?

Silver Crusade

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Steve Geddes wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
But 2nd ed D&D was 30 years ago, the number of old players who still consider Vecna a relevant point of reference for anything is dwindling, and the new "Hi, I'm here because Matt Mercer and Critical Role" entrants into the hobby barely know who Drizzt and Elimnster are, let alone some obscure lich who last time popped up in the early 90s.
Wasn't Vecna the BBEG of Critical Role's first season?

That'll teach me, I've started watching with the second season :D

But the point stands, I don't think anybody these days is familiar with the old adventures.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

Every single bit of this sounds really neat. I'm very excited. :)

My only real concern/question is how the absence of the WotR PCs is explained. And they pretty much must be absent, unlike other AP protagonists...they can probably take the Whispering Tyrant by themselves if they're still around, among other setting-wrecking stuff. 17th level characters don't do that, but 20th level/Mythic Tier 10 ones do.

I think that's up to us as players to write in what our PCs are doing.

In our canon, we had:

a cleric of Abadar who cozied up to Nocticula. There's been an ugly breakup, the results of which are Nocticula's recent changes, and that PC is now running her portfolio within the Abyss. Also known as... a BBEG to come.

a psion who ended up married to Arushalae. They've had children and are leading a relatively sedate life somewhere anonymous to grant those kids a relatively normal life. The psion occasionally dabbles in other campaigns, as a plot-linker.

an aegis who ended up retiring, never having actually liking the rest of the party on a personal level. He actually was meddling with some hobgoblin stuff (we ran an unsuccessful Red Hand of Doom) that apparently resulted in them getting a nation. RHoD PC's fault, not the aegis'.

a fairie dragon cohort to the psion who ended up Iomedae's herald. She's still calling herself Harrold, which indicates a} she's still got the job and b} she still doesn't quite understand what the job is.

So... our PC's after-campaign canon happens to fit what's been done to the setting rather well. Some is coincidence, some is deliberate. But none of them are active in the world in a way that disturbs the canon, only enhances it.

Liberty's Edge

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Anguish wrote:
I think that's up to us as players to write in what our PCs are doing.

Sure, but we need a vague canonical answer for everyone who didn't actually play the AP (including all the new players starting with PF2). It needs to be vague enough to allow room for cool stuff like you describe, but it needs to be there for people who don't have an existing explanation from their own game.


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Anguish wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Every single bit of this sounds really neat. I'm very excited. :)

My only real concern/question is how the absence of the WotR PCs is explained. And they pretty much must be absent, unlike other AP protagonists...they can probably take the Whispering Tyrant by themselves if they're still around, among other setting-wrecking stuff. 17th level characters don't do that, but 20th level/Mythic Tier 10 ones do.

I think that's up to us as players to write in what our PCs are doing.

In our canon, we had:

a cleric of Abadar who cozied up to Nocticula. There's been an ugly breakup, the results of which are Nocticula's recent changes, and that PC is now running her portfolio within the Abyss. Also known as... a BBEG to come.

a psion who ended up married to Arushalae. They've had children and are leading a relatively sedate life somewhere anonymous to grant those kids a relatively normal life. The psion occasionally dabbles in other campaigns, as a plot-linker.

an aegis who ended up retiring, never having actually liking the rest of the party on a personal level. He actually was meddling with some hobgoblin stuff (we ran an unsuccessful Red Hand of Doom) that apparently resulted in them getting a nation. RHoD PC's fault, not the aegis'.

a fairie dragon cohort to the psion who ended up Iomedae's herald. She's still calling herself Harrold, which indicates a} she's still got the job and b} she still doesn't quite understand what the job is.

So... our PC's after-campaign canon happens to fit what's been done to the setting rather well. Some is coincidence, some is deliberate. But none of them are active in the world in a way that disturbs the canon, only enhances it.

Our person who regularly had tea with Nocticula, married Arushalae and had a Faerie dragon cohort were all the same person, a Cleric of Desna (also her son). My tiefling Iomedian inquisitor/herald kept telling him he was a fool to think he could be a good influence on Nocticula. Now that she's semi-redeemed, the cleric is totally going to get to tell him "I told you so."

To handle the issue of setting wrecking, the two main GMs had high level Mythic power 'region locked.' Basically they can only really manifest their Mythic power in their particular area, Sarkoris in our case. This kept us from going kicking Razmir's ass, conquering Galt and making it non crazy, uprooting House Trhune etc. At least for the most part. The PCs simply just not being involved in the world can work, if the players are all on board with that. That wasn't really an option in our case. Eventually even this solution wasn't really enough, because at least one player wanted to keep pushing the limits of what they could do with their power. So eventually there is a semi-forced ascension to demi-godhood. All the PCs took Divine Source, which helps justify that. Plus one being the son of a god and another a herald, so it makes sense. So it gets them off plane and where they have to play by the rules of the other gods, and they're now the small fish in the big pond.

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