Pathfinder Society Second Edition Preview: Chronicle Sheets, Rarity, and More!

Wednesday, May 15, 2019

The inexorable approach of Pathfinder Society's second edition campaign means the team's relentlessly discussing, finalizing, and formalizing ever more campaign details, much as we shared in April with earned benefits. This month we're not only presenting four more preview topics, but there's also another blog happening later today to introduce the first of two new factions. Let's get to it!

Chronicle Sheets

With all of the changes we're making to the organized play campaign, one of the most visually apparent differences is the redesign of our Chronicle sheets. We've shared a few samples of potential new Chronicle sheets in previous blogs, collecting lots of feedback from you in the process. Studying your comments alongside the other updates and changes we've made in the organized play program; we've come up with a close-to-final version of the Chronicle sheet for you to check out and give us any final thoughts or feedback on before it gets locked in. With the new Achievement Points system and other updates, we've adjusted the Chronicle sheet to feature more room for tracking expenditures, adventure summaries, and other useful tools. And if we're tracking those on a Chronicle sheet again, that means the Inventory Tracking Sheet can be a thing of the past.

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words, so at this point, I'll wrap up talking and direct you to the sample of the new Chronicle sheet linked below. Please check it out and let us know what you think!

Rarity and Item Access

As you likely saw in the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder's second edition includes both item levels and rarities. These two topics share the same themes—namely getting cool gear in your PC's hands—so we're looking at them together.

An item's level is a reliable indication of its power, its price, and whether a character of a given level should typically have one handy, plus it makes creating higher-level characters pretty handy (e.g., begin with this many 3rd-level items, this many 4th, etc.). If you've played Starfinder, you already have a good sense of what item levels look like and how they function. The main difference is that Pathfinder focuses less on buying ever-better versions of your preferred weapon and instead on applies power-boosting augmentations to it.

When we launched Starfinder Society, we saw item levels as a natural way to indicate when a PC could access and purchase a particular item. In that campaign, PCs can buy items from the Starfinder Core Rulebook up to their level + 1, items from other sources up to their level + 0, and anything from a Chronicle sheet up to their level + 2. In those reasonably rare circumstances in which someone earns and keeps Infamy, each point of Infamy reduces the PC's effective level by 1 for the purpose of buying gear (arms merchants tend not to trust PC criminals with the latest plasma cannon). This model's worked out pretty smoothly, especially in that it means any higher-level equipment on a Chronicle sheet is relevant (a common complaint in Pathfinder Society's use of Fame for equipment access). By giving broader access to the Core Rulebook's equipment, we both indicated that gear was more common and thus easier to access, and we were aiming to keep that book's contents as relevant as possible even as other books began appearing on shelves.

We're implementing something very similar in the new Pathfinder Society campaign, with Chronicle sheets granting earlier level-access to gear and Infamy making it tougher to find top-tier equipment. We're still tinkering with the numbers a little, particularly for the Pathfinder Core Rulebook's contents compared to that of other books. After all, we have a different tool for understanding how common different gear is: rarity.

Rarity addresses two elements in the game: ubiquity and complexity. For ubiquity, whether an option's common or uncommon (or rare or unique) indicates how likely a PC is to find it at a store, in a treasure hoard, or in an NPC's hands. Anything common is something that a PC's typically able to find without much difficulty, wealth permitting. Uncommon options might be fairly pervasive in a specific area or for a particular organization, but they're limited enough that not everyone can get a hold of them. Rare options are very limited and are unlikely to appear except as coveted treasure. As for complexity, the rarity system also communicates the relative complexity or ramifications of using an option, such as how detect evil can vastly simplify an investigation, teleport can handwave the challenges of an overland journey, or antimagic field causes everyone to recalculate how their equipment and bonuses work suddenly.

In Pathfinder Society, expect to see nearly universal access to common character options (ancestries, feats, archetypes, items, spells, and the like). In fact, our hope for the Additional Resources page is to be pretty minimalist, with the understanding that nearly any common option you find in a book would be good to go in organized play. On the far end of the spectrum, don't expect to see rare or unique options except on Chronicle sheets. And in the middle, we have uncommon options. These are fertile ground for including on Chronicle sheets, especially when an item's an excellent fit for a particular adventure.

But there are many more uncommon options than we can reasonably and tastefully fit on a Chronicle sheet, so does that just leave a bunch of fantastic uncommon options "stranded"? Not quite. One of the significant ways you'll be able to use your Achievement Points is gaining access to uncommon options—including uncommon ancestries, in effect functioning as the old "race boons." Does that mean all of the uncommon options printed in every book becomes accessible? No, there will still be some uncommon options we hold back for gameplay and complexity reasons, but we're aiming to allow access to a solid percentage of the uncommon published material.

Speaking of Achievement Points (AcP), we heard your feedback about possible other names and abbreviations, and we've been workshopping some other possibilities to test out with our volunteers. More on this soon!

Replay for Seasons 0–10

Ah, but essential as rarity may be, it's hardly captured the public discourse like replay—specifically, how replay opportunities are going to work in the current PFS campaign once August hits and we stop producing new scenarios for the first edition of the game. We've collected a lot of feedback, data, and opinions from many of you on this topic, and we've taken all of that, as well as considering what's best for the health and stability of both campaigns, and come up with a framework that we think will allow both PFS campaigns to be as strong as is feasible.

First, all of the replay options that are currently available will continue to be so. This includes GM star recharges existing convention boons that offer replay options and the current stable of replayable (evergreen) adventures. We all agreed that it was important not to take anything away from the first edition Pathfinder Society campaign; we want to build on what everyone's familiar with, not replace the working systems players and GMs already know.

Secondly, we'll be taking a snapshot of all of the recorded organized play sessions on Paizo.com in mid-July. It will be imperative to make sure all of your game sessions are recorded by this point in time, as this snapshot will be set against an activity scale that will determine the number of "free" replays that are applied to your account. Essentially, the more regularly that you have played and GM'd, the more Pathfinder first edition replays you will be granted. This will allow those who are nearing the end of their playable material to have a similar gameplay "lifespan" to players who have just recently joined the organized play campaign.

Finally, you may recall from our April blog that we will be introducing a type of digital currency called "Achievement Points" for Pathfinder's second edition organized play campaign. For the purposes of discussing replay, the main thing to note is that you will earn Achievement Points every time you play a PFS second edition game, in roughly the same amounts that you gain XP. There will be a variety of things you can redeem these Achievement Points for, such as the uncommon items mentioned above, including first edition replays. The more you play or GM for the new edition, the more potential replay opportunities you'll accrue for the first edition campaign.

Tags

If you've played Starfinder Society, you may already be familiar with scenario tags. Tags are markers that appear both on a scenario's product page and on its title page that gives key information about the scenario's contents. We'll be using the following tags in Pathfinder Society.

Repeatable: Scenarios with this tag can be replayed an unlimited number of times (but only once per character). GMs receive another Chronicle sheet each time they run a scenario with this tag (but can apply credit only once to a given character).

Faction: Scenarios with this tag list one or more associated factions. As an example, we'll use a couple of made-up factions. "Faction (Door Bashers)" would indicate a scenario that is of some importance to the Door Bashers faction—no doubt due to the large number of very important doors that need kicking. Similarly, a scenario with the "Faction (Door Bashers, Monster Punchers)" tag would indicate a scenario that would be of interest to characters championing the Door Bashers or Monster Punchers faction. This tag generally corresponds to scenarios with additional Reputation awards for the associated factions.

Exclusive: Scenarios with this tag are meant to be run in a specific environment or by a particular cadre of Pathfinder GMs. Common recipients of these sorts of scenarios include distinguished volunteers who've run many sessions of Pathfinder Society, GMs running the exclusive at a large convention, or a Paizo staff member. Scenarios with this tag include specific rules on who is eligible to run it, where it may be run, as well as any other considerations for eligibility of receiving credit.

We're leaving open the possibility of adding additional tags in the future. For example, if we were to release a scenario-length pack of quest (as opposed to individual quests), we would likely use a quest tag to mark that adventure. We might also introduce additional tags to signify substantial rules elements, much as Starfinder Society added the vehicle tag to scenarios that use the vehicle rules.

Join us back here this afternoon for breaking news you don't want to miss – the first faction announcement for Pathfinder Society (2nd edition).

Next week we preview the May scenarios, just before heading to PaizoCon. While there, we will host Question & Answer panels on both the Pathfinder and Starfinder Society, as well as join the Lone Shark developers for a discussion of all things Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, including the Pathfinder Adventure Card Society. For those unable to join us, we will summarize our announcements in a blog the following Wednesday.

John Compton
Organized Play Lead Developer

Michael Sayre
Developer

Linda Zayas-Palmer
Developer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder Society
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Grand Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I like the idea of using the Achievement Points to earn more PFS1 Replays. That's a good decision.

As far as the Chronicle Sheet goes, there are no spots for Achievement Points, Infamy, and Downtime. Will these be digitally tracked on the Paizo site only? I do realize that DT will not accumulate so that may not need a tracking system, but I think it might be something that should be listed on the sheet if it has different rates of earning for slow progression vs. normal progression.

I really feel that AcP should be listed on the Chronicle Sheets for similar reasons.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver aka roll4initiative

Very happy with the 2e chronicle sheet! Very similar to the old design yet making use of empty space.

2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

There is a Downtime section at the bottom. You can't "save" downtime between scenarios, so the number doesn't need to be tracked, just what you spent it on.

Achievement Points are generated by your GM/VO logging the game in Paizo.com.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

15 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
The more you play or GM for the new edition, the more potential replay opportunities you'll accrue for the first edition campaign.

Wow. Not cool. Really not cool.

People and groups that need replays for first edition are the ones NOT playing PF2. This does nothing to get the people who need the replays to stay in the campaign the replays they need to keep it going.

3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
The more you play or GM for the new edition, the more potential replay opportunities you'll accrue for the first edition campaign.

Wow. Not cool. Really not cool.

People and groups that need replays for first edition are the ones NOT playing PF2. This does nothing to get the people who need the replays to stay in the campaign the replays they need to keep it going.

Agreed. This seems like it's designed not to help players who don't want to make the jump continue to play Society, but to create a transitional period while PFS2 gets off the ground so we don't see stuff like what happened in early Starfinder.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

I still have not quite grasped the Faction/Reputation entries, or if how to keep track of which faction one is actually in compared to what faction needs fame (?) spent on to gain.

I assume the boon examples is just First Edition style boons (and the scenario summery is not boons as repeated on the sample sheet)

Is fame not being tracked? It isn't on the chronicle sheet.

The Exchange 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

5 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
The more you play or GM for the new edition, the more potential replay opportunities you'll accrue for the first edition campaign.

Wow. Not cool. Really not cool.

People and groups that need replays for first edition are the ones NOT playing PF2. This does nothing to get the people who need the replays to stay in the campaign the replays they need to keep it going.

Yeah this is.... absurd.

And just defeats the point of extending replay in the first place.

Like.... What are you even thinking?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I think giving some replay options to those that are playing PF2 will get them to join in a PF1 game every once and a while. This is while they are enjoying the game in it's new shiny.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

the blog wrote:
as this snapshot will be set against an activity scale that will determine the number of "free" replays that are applied to your account. Essentially, the more regularly that you have played and GM'd, the more Pathfinder first edition replays you will be granted.

Taking the torches down to a slow simmer until I see how this is supposed to work. Nothing wrong with giving PF2 players replays based on play I just thought it was supposed to be the way PF1 players got it.

Scarab Sages 3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

BigNorseWolf put it well. If someone only wants to play 1e, why should they have to play 2e to earn replays for the edition they want to play in?

Granted my mind, at first, went to "cool, playing games earns me replays to play more games", but that's not really what's happening. Instead it's being told that you'll need to play a completely different system and learn the rules of the system to play the system you actually like and already know the rules for. What's next, earning replays for playing 5e kingmaker for 1e pfs? It just doesn't make sense.

2/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

If that was your *only* way if earning PFS1 replays, yes, but it's *not.*

You get *all* the old ways (GM stars, recharges, boons) plus a scaled number of bonus replays based on games played (more played = more replays).

If you play PFS2 and choose to, you can buy PFS1 replays.

Scarab Sages 3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Blake's Tiger wrote:

If that was your *only* way if earning PFS1 replays, yes, but it's *not.*

You get *all* the old ways (GM stars, recharges, boons) plus a scaled number of bonus replays based on games played (more played = more replays).

If you play PFS2 and choose to, you can buy PFS1 replays.

I'm off the mind that that fact is irrelevant. Earning replays without these 2e point buys is going to be far too limited for the people that actually want or need replays to keep the system alive. I know paizo would love everyone to love and play their new system, but this is pushing to far and will be the slow death of its 1e campaign, which I can't help but feel is what they actually want and are simply masking it very well with these options.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Blake's Tiger wrote:

If that was your *only* way if earning PFS1 replays, yes, but it's *not.*

You get *all* the old ways (GM stars, recharges, boons) plus a scaled number of bonus replays based on games played (more played = more replays).

GM star recharges are at most 5 per year. Thats not enough to keep even a 5star dm in the campaign: thats less than one game every other month. It's absolutely not enough to sustain a group.

I need to see the specifics for how bonus replays based on games played is actually calculated. If people think DM stars can keep the campaign going I'm worried that number will be far, far too small.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Does this not address those problems?

Quote:
Essentially, the more regularly that you have played and GM'd, the more Pathfinder first edition replays you will be granted. This will allow those who are nearing the end of their playable material to have a similar gameplay "lifespan" to players who have just recently joined the organized play campaign.

Edit: Too slow! I agree that we will need to see how it is implemented.

Scarab Sages 3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

Does this not address those problems?

Quote:
Essentially, the more regularly that you have played and GM'd, the more Pathfinder first edition replays you will be granted. This will allow those who are nearing the end of their playable material to have a similar gameplay "lifespan" to players who have just recently joined the organized play campaign.
Edit: Too slow! I agree that we will need to see how it is implemented.

The main problem here is that, as far as we know, this is a one time gift of replays. Unless the number is incredibly high, it is still a limited resource. Why you can't simply replay a scenario once a year or so will continue to baffle me.

The Exchange 1/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That's the way I understood it. The more you have played/GM PFS1 the more bonus replays you will get! It looks to me they are really trying to find a happy median between, "I WANT ALL THE REPLAYS ALL THE TIME!" and "Less replays than we have now are better for the community" crowds. No one is going to get what they want but hopefully they will get need, as the song goes. JMTC

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.
zer0darkfire wrote:
Why you can't simply replay a scenario once a year or so will continue to baffle me.

Because that's not what Paizo wants.

Dark Archive 3/5 Venture-Agent, Mexico—Monterrey aka GM Héctor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Essentially, the more regularly that you have played and GM'd, the more Pathfinder first edition replays you will be granted. This will allow those who are nearing the end of their playable material to have a similar gameplay "lifespan" to players who have just recently joined the organized play campaign.

Perhaps I missed but is the number of replays gonna increase at some point?

Let's say the snapshot gives you X replays and you keep playing/GMing. Is X gonna increase at some point or it's a single time value? Is X gonna be refreshed every year?

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

zer0darkfire wrote:
What's next, earning replays for playing 5e kingmaker for 1e pfs? It just doesn't make sense.

That's hilariously been a thing for years??????

Scarab Sages 3/5

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Adam Yakaboski wrote:
zer0darkfire wrote:
What's next, earning replays for playing 5e kingmaker for 1e pfs? It just doesn't make sense.
That's hilariously been a thing for years??????

I'm not sure what you mean when 5e kingmaker isnt out yet. Their kickstarter is still collecting backers.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You can play Kingmaker in 5E with Campaign Mode. Not sure about the replay thing.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Is there a range that you guys are expecting the replay grant to end up on? 1-10 replays? 10-50 replays? 0-150 replays? Letting those of us who have burned out our replay options keep pace with the new players is a worthwhile goal, but it could require a LOT of replays.

I want to be happy with the announcement, but without any real detail, it's hard to evaluate!

2/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
zer0darkfire wrote:
Blake's Tiger wrote:

If that was your *only* way if earning PFS1 replays, yes, but it's *not.*

You get *all* the old ways (GM stars, recharges, boons) plus a scaled number of bonus replays based on games played (more played = more replays).

If you play PFS2 and choose to, you can buy PFS1 replays.

I'm off the mind that that fact is irrelevant. Earning replays without these 2e point buys is going to be far too limited for the people that actually want or need replays to keep the system alive. I know paizo would love everyone to love and play their new system, but this is pushing to far and will be the slow death of its 1e campaign, which I can't help but feel is what they actually want and are simply masking it very well with these options.

For months, all we've known is the scaled replays as the only solution.

Here they announce an *extra* way and that's bad?

Sure, people can want more replays, people will always want more, but that's separate from 2e earning 1e replays.

Scarab Sages 3/5

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Blake's Tiger wrote:
zer0darkfire wrote:
Blake's Tiger wrote:

If that was your *only* way if earning PFS1 replays, yes, but it's *not.*

You get *all* the old ways (GM stars, recharges, boons) plus a scaled number of bonus replays based on games played (more played = more replays).

If you play PFS2 and choose to, you can buy PFS1 replays.

I'm off the mind that that fact is irrelevant. Earning replays without these 2e point buys is going to be far too limited for the people that actually want or need replays to keep the system alive. I know paizo would love everyone to love and play their new system, but this is pushing to far and will be the slow death of its 1e campaign, which I can't help but feel is what they actually want and are simply masking it very well with these options.

For months, all we've known is the scaled replays as the only solution.

Here they announce an *extra* way and that's bad?

Sure, people can want more replays, people will always want more, but that's separate from 2e earning 1e replays.

It's not "bad" it just doesn't make much sense and is likely not going to be effective at keeping 1e going. Keep in mind that if use the 2e points to get replays for 1e, that's points you're not spending on stuff for the system you literally just played. A 2e player is not going to buy a replay for 1e and a 1e player doesnt want to play 2e to play 1e. The only niche case this works for are the players that like 1e more but are willing to play 2e just to play more 1e and that's just nonsense.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Or players that will play both.

Scarab Sages 3/5 Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Bellevue aka JohannVonUlm

What is the HeroLab box in the upper right of the chronicle form? Is there a connection between PFS 2e and HeroLab Online?

4/5 Venture-Agent, Washington—Tri-Cities aka ninthwatcher

9 people marked this as a favorite.

I understand their will always be gnashing of teeth from those who don’t want to move on to to another edition, but for you all not to understand that they are not going to be running 2 campaigns going forward is absurd. This is a peace offering and allows them to provide limited “legacy” support for a system they will no longer be supporting, organized play or otherwise. If the company is going to continue having success and not implode it is in their best interest to incentivize people to move to 2e, otherwise the 2nd edition campaign will fail.

I don’t see the need to offer more than they are. A year after the release no major conventions will offer 1e games officially. There will be no more 1e products. However, your scenarios and 1e pathfinder aren’t going anywhere. So why care about replays at all people? If you don’t plan to play 2e, and you like pathfinder society scenarios then play them! To your heart’s content, over and over, forever. Use the pathfinder society rules if you like to, play with your local group or online and have fun! Otherwise what do you hope to get out of “official” 1e pfs characters going forward that won’t see any additional support?

2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I'm happy that there's fewer spots to initial as a GM. But I still expected to see the XP/GP boxes with the grey background depicting GM data entry.

I'm sad that we're still using the almost-always-filled-out-wrong format for faction fame from starfinder.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm with all the people saying that earning PFS1 replays via PFS2 playtime is garbage. Some of us have no intention of ever touching 2nd edition.

I am not against the idea of changing systems, I just do not like the direction they are taking the rules for 2e.

Silver Crusade 2/5

NielsenE wrote:

I'm happy that there's fewer spots to initial as a GM. But I still expected to see the XP/GP boxes with the grey background depicting GM data entry.

I'm sad that we're still using the almost-always-filled-out-wrong format for faction fame from starfinder.

I honestly concur with this. I still have no idea how to fill out the faction place properly, even after having read the guide a few times (granted, it has been a long time), so if we could have a less ambiguous and more clear-cut section and entry for this I would greatly appreciate it.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Chronicle Sheet: Can we still track items sold etc. on an ITS sheet, and just list the value of items sold and bought? Sometimes you buy a lot of items, and for a lot of us the space on the chronicle sheets is pretty limited and/or we buy stuff during the scenario and want to add it to some permanent list immediately.

I have different but similar concerns when it comes to the faction rep list, in SFS some of my characters already have gained too much rep with various factions, though if this is just to not what you earn on that chronicle it should be enough. Giving us an ITS to allow us to track all of our rep would be a neat idea, maybe with some space for notes or faction specific boons.

Not sure if and how we change our process when it comes to GMs filling out their part, but it might be worthwhile to colour code the "XP Gained" and "GP Gained boxes" and maybe add a "+" and "-" in front of the earned and spend, just to make it harder for a busy convention GM to fill in the wrong box.

In general, I like it, the adventure summary should help some players remember what happened, or at least what was supposed to happen before things got off track ^^

If the Herolab code means what I think it means, that would be a very welcome change.

Rarity and Item Access:

I have gotten used to item level in Starfinder, and while sometimes a level +2 armor on a chronicle sheet feels a bit strong, I really like the fact, that the loot you find in a scenario (and get on your chronicle sheet) is something you actually want to use. Finding 20 masterwork and 2 +1 handaxes is the kind of loot my players really disliked when I ran Kingmaker years ago, and I have been changing AP loot ever since.

Since I don't know what kind of option will be common or uncommon, and while it should be great to unlock the specific uncommon options we actually want via spending points, I am slightly worried by the assumption that all common items will be legal. I guess we will see how many common/uncommon etc. items will appear in other releases. I do like that anything that is rare or unique is by default not legal unless unlocked somehow. That has the potential for some really neat chronicle sheet rewards.

Replay:

Honestly, this works for me as an organizer, but to be fair I hardly ever play PFS1 these days, I find it challenging enough to keep up with playing SFS scenarios - though I have run some of them several times.
From my perspective, having replays will allow us to schedule some of the best PFS1 has to offer over the next couple of months, while also offering the new SFS and PFS2 releases. I am very much looking forward to the new stories and getting a fresh start.

Tags:

They look good but considering some experiments like SFS 2-00 it might be a good idea to add a Tag that means more or less "read the description carefully" if players need to plan something or bring more characters.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay, for the people that are *not* on HeroLab Online, will their chronicle sheets still be legal?

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Blake's Tiger wrote:
zer0darkfire wrote:
Blake's Tiger wrote:

If that was your *only* way if earning PFS1 replays, yes, but it's *not.*

You get *all* the old ways (GM stars, recharges, boons) plus a scaled number of bonus replays based on games played (more played = more replays).

If you play PFS2 and choose to, you can buy PFS1 replays.

I'm off the mind that that fact is irrelevant. Earning replays without these 2e point buys is going to be far too limited for the people that actually want or need replays to keep the system alive. I know paizo would love everyone to love and play their new system, but this is pushing to far and will be the slow death of its 1e campaign, which I can't help but feel is what they actually want and are simply masking it very well with these options.

For months, all we've known is the scaled replays as the only solution.

Here they announce an *extra* way and that's bad?

Sure, people can want more replays, people will always want more, but that's separate from 2e earning 1e replays.

I agree with the Tiger^^

From my point of view getting some replays for your PF2 tables could be welcome for a group of players, of course, this is not for everyone.

If you attend local game days or conventions that offer a mix of systems, chances are that sometimes your planned table of PFS1 won't work out like you planned and you have some time to kill. Even if you are not a huge fan of PF2, it is still the same organized play team, and chances are good that they will have an interesting story to tell .
Seems perfectly fine to offer you a chance to cash out your points for another replay.

---

I suspect that this is just a bonus/incentive to give the new system a chance and not something they expect everyone to do.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Okay, for the people that are *not* on HeroLab Online, will their chronicle sheets still be legal?

Unless I am misunderstanding the approach, a unique number attached to each chronicle sheet should enable the player to import the sheet into Herolab.

One of the potential benefits would be that this could list all your chronicles and more importantly boons and give players an interface to slot them.

I have no doubt that this will not affect anyone who does not use Herolab negatively.

Silver Crusade 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

Chronicle Sheet: Can we still track items sold etc. on an ITS sheet, and just list the value of items sold and bought? Sometimes you buy a lot of items, and for a lot of us the space on the chronicle sheets is pretty limited and/or we buy stuff during the scenario and want to add it to some permanent list immediately.

I have different but similar concerns when it comes to the faction rep list, in SFS some of my characters already have gained too much rep with various factions, though if this is just to not what you earn on that chronicle it should be enough. Giving us an ITS to allow us to track all of our rep would be a neat idea, maybe with some space for notes or faction specific boons.

Not going to lie, I HATE ITS sheets. I'd rather there be as little paperwork as possible in relation to PFS, so the idea of there being multiple different ITS sheets makes me (metaphorically) weep. I think it would be good to have a backup sheet template available for when there isn't enough space on the chronicle, but a definite hard pass from me on there being a (mandatory) separate ITS, for faction related stuff or otherwise.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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Phylotus wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

Chronicle Sheet: Can we still track items sold etc. on an ITS sheet, and just list the value of items sold and bought? Sometimes you buy a lot of items, and for a lot of us the space on the chronicle sheets is pretty limited and/or we buy stuff during the scenario and want to add it to some permanent list immediately.

I have different but similar concerns when it comes to the faction rep list, in SFS some of my characters already have gained too much rep with various factions, though if this is just to not what you earn on that chronicle it should be enough. Giving us an ITS to allow us to track all of our rep would be a neat idea, maybe with some space for notes or faction specific boons.

Not going to lie, I HATE ITS sheets. I'd rather there be as little paperwork as possible in relation to PFS, so the idea of there being multiple different ITS sheets makes me (metaphorically) weep. I think it would be good to have a backup sheet template available for when there isn't enough space on the chronicle, but a definite hard pass from me on there being a (mandatory) separate ITS, for faction related stuff or otherwise.

I personally find it helps me control my own tendency to create a mess and write stuff on several different pages, it was actually a bit of a problem in the last campaign mode I have played.

Having everything in one place (or over a couple of pages) allows me to quickly view what I have, what I need to replenish and what sometimes what I plan to buy.

Of course, that approach just happens to work for me, I have seen players using notebooks to not this kind of data. It is also worth noticing that not all characters buy the same amount of things, I have PF1 characters that have pages of ITS sheets for consumables... though I think I managed to drop that nasty habit in SFS.

I guess it might be a decent idea to print some lines on the back of chronicle sheets to allow players to keep notes.

2/5

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Please make sure that all boxes a GM needs to fill out on the chronicle sheet are highlighted (reputation, xp, gp, etc.) I don't see the gp default settings on the sheet. Does this mean they will be in the scenario?

And lastly, please for the love of sanity, make it crystal clear how the reputation line should be completed. It was a huge complication in Starfinder, and I can easily see it being confusing for PFS GMs and players. Faction Name: +xx Reputation Earned for scenario|=xx Total Faction Reputation Earned.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

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Phylotus wrote:


Not going to lie, I HATE ITS sheets.

I still remember the one person I'd seen who ever checked ITS sheets holding up my dog eared cheeto encrusted spill marked 18 by 25 piece of graph paper like I'd just handed them a dead possum.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

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I've seen more people know how to work three seashells from demolition man than the two hashmarks for starfinder

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

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Ryan Bolstad wrote:
So why care about replays at all people?

You're basically asking what good is organized play and you really should know the answer to that question.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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Replays
I'm okay with this. To be fair, I also play SFS, am down to only one game day per week most of the time, and some of that is spent on APs/modules. So the back catalog has been building back up for me. And I've been managing well enough with star replays over the past years.

I think the proposed system will provide enough replay for people who play in both/all three campaigns. It'll slowly fade-out PFS1 even for them, but quite slowly I think.

For the people who do not want to get into PFS2, I guess it won't be enough. For me personally, that's a nonstarter. I don't like replay very much, it's only a handful of scenarios that I really enjoy replaying. Generally ones with spectacular combats and no shocking plot revelations. So given that PFS1 won't get new scenarios, it's slouching towards an end for me anyway.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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Chronicle Sheet Design
For the most part I'm fine with it. But there are some areas that I think can be improved.

Items per subtier: please adopt clearly either a [all subtiers] + [high subtier] or a [low subtier] != [high subtier] scheme. In PFS1 some scenarios if you play the high subtier you should NOT get low subtier stuff, in others it's cumulative. I see arguments for either standard.

Items as early access: in theory this is nice but I've found it rather underwhelming in practice. Starfinder chronicles are bloated with item access for items that aren't really that early access. If someone playing in tier isn't actually accessing the item earlier than normal, it's mostly a waste of space.

My biggest gripe though:

Items Bought/Sold
How often do you sell 7 items in one session? Or gain that many conditions that you don't want/have to clear?

How often do you buy more than 7 items in one session? That happens to me on every character for character creation, and it also happens often enough that I play multiple sessions in a row (or assign GM credit) and then when I have time sit down and do a big shopping spree.

Also, where do expended consumables go?

2/5

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I could easily buy 7 items in one session. Usually, it's 2-4, but every so often I go on a potion/alchemical weapon spree.

I buy 20+ items on my first session.

So... well, I'm bring my own hand made ITS, which is what I do for all my characters now anyhow.

3/5

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@ Big Norse Wolf: aren't GM star replays 10/year max? 5 for Stars, and 5 for Star Refresh?

Not quite enough for also playing a monthly campaign all year, I grant you...

...but in my experience, I have yet to play in a monthly campaign that had no missed months.

While I'm not on the 2e hype train just yet, and locally most GMs I know plan on running PF 1.0 and SFS, I'm pleased by the option to spend PF 2.0 AcP on PF 1.0 replay. It's a nice option for those who might use it; it can be safely ignored by those who don't.

(General question: there's a limited pool of 1e PFS Scenarios. That is set in stone. How much replay credit does any player need, considering any given non-evergreen can only be replayed once anyway, and high use PFSers have had several years of replay available already?

How many times to people really want to play the same scenario(s) over and over and over again... in a formal "campaign mode"?)

Edit: The main reason I try to hoard replay options is to get certain scenarios to the table again / play through with particular friends where I think we'd have fun. It sounds like the "one-and-done" credit dump is designed to enable that, if you have a friend who is new to PFS.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Redgar's ACG Characters wrote:
@ Big Norse Wolf: aren't GM star replays 10/year max? 5 for Stars, and 5 for Star Refresh?

Only the first year you start refreshing.

⦵⦵⦵

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Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

What concerns me about this is the Common/Uncommon/Rare setup. While I have no problem with the method for items...if I get access to a cool item that I want I just ditch the current one and add the new one.

What worries me is the powers/feats/spells, there is no mention of retraining, which means kind of like Starfinder your first and even possibly second character are going to be generic, with only common abilities, until you can earn points to get an uncommon one.

It seems like that could be fixed by a retraining system that allowed you to switch out powers/feats/spells, even if it is just one a level or something. PF2 may have that in it, but I do not remember it from the playtest.

It could also be handled by speed of point earning vs. cost of uncommon powers.

It also may only be a short term problem, as more source material comes out and more options become generally available, but it will be one at the beginning of the campaign, unless they pretty much made everything there common.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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ProfessorC wrote:


[...]
What worries me is the powers/feats/spells, there is no mention of retraining, which means kind of like Starfinder your first and even possibly second character are going to be generic, with only common abilities, until you can earn points to get an uncommon one.

It seems like that could be fixed by a retraining system that allowed you to switch out powers/feats/spells, even if it is just one a level or something. PF2 may have that in it, but I do not remember it from the playtest.
[...]

Retraining was core in the playtest, and will be a core function in the final version. The degree to which that will intersect with rarity will likely depend on the character.

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