Pathfinder Society Second Edition Preview: Chronicle Sheets, Rarity, and More!

Wednesday, May 15, 2019

The inexorable approach of Pathfinder Society's second edition campaign means the team's relentlessly discussing, finalizing, and formalizing ever more campaign details, much as we shared in April with earned benefits. This month we're not only presenting four more preview topics, but there's also another blog happening later today to introduce the first of two new factions. Let's get to it!

Chronicle Sheets

With all of the changes we're making to the organized play campaign, one of the most visually apparent differences is the redesign of our Chronicle sheets. We've shared a few samples of potential new Chronicle sheets in previous blogs, collecting lots of feedback from you in the process. Studying your comments alongside the other updates and changes we've made in the organized play program; we've come up with a close-to-final version of the Chronicle sheet for you to check out and give us any final thoughts or feedback on before it gets locked in. With the new Achievement Points system and other updates, we've adjusted the Chronicle sheet to feature more room for tracking expenditures, adventure summaries, and other useful tools. And if we're tracking those on a Chronicle sheet again, that means the Inventory Tracking Sheet can be a thing of the past.

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words, so at this point, I'll wrap up talking and direct you to the sample of the new Chronicle sheet linked below. Please check it out and let us know what you think!

Rarity and Item Access

As you likely saw in the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder's second edition includes both item levels and rarities. These two topics share the same themes—namely getting cool gear in your PC's hands—so we're looking at them together.

An item's level is a reliable indication of its power, its price, and whether a character of a given level should typically have one handy, plus it makes creating higher-level characters pretty handy (e.g., begin with this many 3rd-level items, this many 4th, etc.). If you've played Starfinder, you already have a good sense of what item levels look like and how they function. The main difference is that Pathfinder focuses less on buying ever-better versions of your preferred weapon and instead on applies power-boosting augmentations to it.

When we launched Starfinder Society, we saw item levels as a natural way to indicate when a PC could access and purchase a particular item. In that campaign, PCs can buy items from the Starfinder Core Rulebook up to their level + 1, items from other sources up to their level + 0, and anything from a Chronicle sheet up to their level + 2. In those reasonably rare circumstances in which someone earns and keeps Infamy, each point of Infamy reduces the PC's effective level by 1 for the purpose of buying gear (arms merchants tend not to trust PC criminals with the latest plasma cannon). This model's worked out pretty smoothly, especially in that it means any higher-level equipment on a Chronicle sheet is relevant (a common complaint in Pathfinder Society's use of Fame for equipment access). By giving broader access to the Core Rulebook's equipment, we both indicated that gear was more common and thus easier to access, and we were aiming to keep that book's contents as relevant as possible even as other books began appearing on shelves.

We're implementing something very similar in the new Pathfinder Society campaign, with Chronicle sheets granting earlier level-access to gear and Infamy making it tougher to find top-tier equipment. We're still tinkering with the numbers a little, particularly for the Pathfinder Core Rulebook's contents compared to that of other books. After all, we have a different tool for understanding how common different gear is: rarity.

Rarity addresses two elements in the game: ubiquity and complexity. For ubiquity, whether an option's common or uncommon (or rare or unique) indicates how likely a PC is to find it at a store, in a treasure hoard, or in an NPC's hands. Anything common is something that a PC's typically able to find without much difficulty, wealth permitting. Uncommon options might be fairly pervasive in a specific area or for a particular organization, but they're limited enough that not everyone can get a hold of them. Rare options are very limited and are unlikely to appear except as coveted treasure. As for complexity, the rarity system also communicates the relative complexity or ramifications of using an option, such as how detect evil can vastly simplify an investigation, teleport can handwave the challenges of an overland journey, or antimagic field causes everyone to recalculate how their equipment and bonuses work suddenly.

In Pathfinder Society, expect to see nearly universal access to common character options (ancestries, feats, archetypes, items, spells, and the like). In fact, our hope for the Additional Resources page is to be pretty minimalist, with the understanding that nearly any common option you find in a book would be good to go in organized play. On the far end of the spectrum, don't expect to see rare or unique options except on Chronicle sheets. And in the middle, we have uncommon options. These are fertile ground for including on Chronicle sheets, especially when an item's an excellent fit for a particular adventure.

But there are many more uncommon options than we can reasonably and tastefully fit on a Chronicle sheet, so does that just leave a bunch of fantastic uncommon options "stranded"? Not quite. One of the significant ways you'll be able to use your Achievement Points is gaining access to uncommon options—including uncommon ancestries, in effect functioning as the old "race boons." Does that mean all of the uncommon options printed in every book becomes accessible? No, there will still be some uncommon options we hold back for gameplay and complexity reasons, but we're aiming to allow access to a solid percentage of the uncommon published material.

Speaking of Achievement Points (AcP), we heard your feedback about possible other names and abbreviations, and we've been workshopping some other possibilities to test out with our volunteers. More on this soon!

Replay for Seasons 0–10

Ah, but essential as rarity may be, it's hardly captured the public discourse like replay—specifically, how replay opportunities are going to work in the current PFS campaign once August hits and we stop producing new scenarios for the first edition of the game. We've collected a lot of feedback, data, and opinions from many of you on this topic, and we've taken all of that, as well as considering what's best for the health and stability of both campaigns, and come up with a framework that we think will allow both PFS campaigns to be as strong as is feasible.

First, all of the replay options that are currently available will continue to be so. This includes GM star recharges existing convention boons that offer replay options and the current stable of replayable (evergreen) adventures. We all agreed that it was important not to take anything away from the first edition Pathfinder Society campaign; we want to build on what everyone's familiar with, not replace the working systems players and GMs already know.

Secondly, we'll be taking a snapshot of all of the recorded organized play sessions on Paizo.com in mid-July. It will be imperative to make sure all of your game sessions are recorded by this point in time, as this snapshot will be set against an activity scale that will determine the number of "free" replays that are applied to your account. Essentially, the more regularly that you have played and GM'd, the more Pathfinder first edition replays you will be granted. This will allow those who are nearing the end of their playable material to have a similar gameplay "lifespan" to players who have just recently joined the organized play campaign.

Finally, you may recall from our April blog that we will be introducing a type of digital currency called "Achievement Points" for Pathfinder's second edition organized play campaign. For the purposes of discussing replay, the main thing to note is that you will earn Achievement Points every time you play a PFS second edition game, in roughly the same amounts that you gain XP. There will be a variety of things you can redeem these Achievement Points for, such as the uncommon items mentioned above, including first edition replays. The more you play or GM for the new edition, the more potential replay opportunities you'll accrue for the first edition campaign.

Tags

If you've played Starfinder Society, you may already be familiar with scenario tags. Tags are markers that appear both on a scenario's product page and on its title page that gives key information about the scenario's contents. We'll be using the following tags in Pathfinder Society.

Repeatable: Scenarios with this tag can be replayed an unlimited number of times (but only once per character). GMs receive another Chronicle sheet each time they run a scenario with this tag (but can apply credit only once to a given character).

Faction: Scenarios with this tag list one or more associated factions. As an example, we'll use a couple of made-up factions. "Faction (Door Bashers)" would indicate a scenario that is of some importance to the Door Bashers faction—no doubt due to the large number of very important doors that need kicking. Similarly, a scenario with the "Faction (Door Bashers, Monster Punchers)" tag would indicate a scenario that would be of interest to characters championing the Door Bashers or Monster Punchers faction. This tag generally corresponds to scenarios with additional Reputation awards for the associated factions.

Exclusive: Scenarios with this tag are meant to be run in a specific environment or by a particular cadre of Pathfinder GMs. Common recipients of these sorts of scenarios include distinguished volunteers who've run many sessions of Pathfinder Society, GMs running the exclusive at a large convention, or a Paizo staff member. Scenarios with this tag include specific rules on who is eligible to run it, where it may be run, as well as any other considerations for eligibility of receiving credit.

We're leaving open the possibility of adding additional tags in the future. For example, if we were to release a scenario-length pack of quest (as opposed to individual quests), we would likely use a quest tag to mark that adventure. We might also introduce additional tags to signify substantial rules elements, much as Starfinder Society added the vehicle tag to scenarios that use the vehicle rules.

Join us back here this afternoon for breaking news you don't want to miss – the first faction announcement for Pathfinder Society (2nd edition).

Next week we preview the May scenarios, just before heading to PaizoCon. While there, we will host Question & Answer panels on both the Pathfinder and Starfinder Society, as well as join the Lone Shark developers for a discussion of all things Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, including the Pathfinder Adventure Card Society. For those unable to join us, we will summarize our announcements in a blog the following Wednesday.

John Compton
Organized Play Lead Developer

Michael Sayre
Developer

Linda Zayas-Palmer
Developer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder Society
51 to 100 of 125 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

ProfessorC wrote:

What concerns me about this is the Common/Uncommon/Rare setup. While I have no problem with the method for items...if I get access to a cool item that I want I just ditch the current one and add the new one.

What worries me is the powers/feats/spells, there is no mention of retraining, which means kind of like Starfinder your first and even possibly second character are going to be generic, with only common abilities, until you can earn points to get an uncommon one.

It seems like that could be fixed by a retraining system that allowed you to switch out powers/feats/spells, even if it is just one a level or something. PF2 may have that in it, but I do not remember it from the playtest.

It could also be handled by speed of point earning vs. cost of uncommon powers.

It also may only be a short term problem, as more source material comes out and more options become generally available, but it will be one at the beginning of the campaign, unless they pretty much made everything there common.

The playtest had retraining in it, which cost downtime, and we already see downtime as part of the scenario rewards so I would not be too worried about that.

That said, since ancestries take quite a bit of word count in PF2 and the Bestiary will not include anything like that, it will take at least a bit of time for those to come out.

In general, there is nothing wrong with the Core Races, particularly since a lot of players are already looking forward to having fun playing Goblins, while others are keen to check out if the new ancestry feats manage to make Elves feel fresh again ... just kidding I will build some Elves, either way, ^^

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

13 people marked this as a favorite.

It’s almost like they are trying to incentivize playing their new game (2E) while giving a prize that can be used in the existing campaign. The insanity of it! What were they thinking?!?

*** ⦵⦵ Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I will add my voice to the chorus asking for three lines for faction reputation! Three lines is very clear. Two lines is confusing, and it's common in my area for people to just write all three numbers (starting, added, and total) over the two lines anyway.

I am kind of bad about keeping my inventory tracking sheets up to date, so I think tracking purchases on chronicles is better for me personally. I would just go to the back of the sheet if I need more space.

I love the idea of a brief adventure summary! For scenarios where there is an important decision, will there perhaps be a line to fill in what the group decided? When it's been a couple years and you're playing the follow-up scenario, sometimes it's hard to remember what you did!

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Kate Baker wrote:

I will add my voice to the chorus asking for three lines for faction reputation! Three lines is very clear. Two lines is confusing, and it's common in my area for people to just write all three numbers (starting, added, and total) over the two lines anyway.

Yeah, right now the rep calculation is the only one where it does not list it like: starting value/addition/new value.

Kate Baker wrote:


I love the idea of a brief adventure summary! For scenarios where there is an important decision, will there perhaps be a line to fill in what the group decided? When it's been a couple years and you're playing the follow-up scenario, sometimes it's hard to remember what you did!

Good idea, though I am coming to the conclusion that bothering to print lines on the back of chronicles might be a neat idea.

Grand Lodge **

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I use the Inventory tracking sheet as my actual inventory--I've already got a list of it in one place, why do that somewhere else?

Dark Archive ***** ⦵⦵⦵⦵

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I also ask that Reputation be tracked with Starting/Gained/Final spaces. The two-space format in Starfinder has not worked; many times, I find players & GMs haven't been tracking reputation at all. Please make it easy so everyone can do it correctly.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

John Brinkman wrote:
What is the HeroLab box in the upper right of the chronicle form? Is there a connection between PFS 2e and HeroLab Online?

I am very curious on what this is...

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Am I missing where we track Fame/Infamy?

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't mind the Starfinder method of tracking reputation, but I would like a clear example in the guide with screenshots. That would make me happiest. If we've had that in the first SFS guide, there would not have been so much confusion.

Hmm

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus aka Cirithiel

5 people marked this as a favorite.

I have a small request: please stop “pre-printing” the first digit of the character number on the sheets.

It’s too small in relation to people’s actual handwriting, so I end up just writing the whole number myself every time anyway.

***

@ Big Norse Wolf, apologies, I should have been clearer.

I meant the chronicles that 'recharge' stars mid-year for continuing to GM. We've had permission to keep filling those in for years, and I understand that nothing is changing w.r.t. existing replay methods?

* RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd much rather have a ledger, like this one. Instead of an ITS or writing everything on the chronicle sheet.

It's a huge pain in the butt to audit and track a character by shuffling through 20+ pieces of paperwork.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Redgar's ACG Characters wrote:
I meant the chronicles that 'recharge' stars mid-year for continuing to GM. We've had permission to keep filling those in for years, and I understand that nothing is changing w.r.t. existing replay methods?

You can only activate a maximum of one Star Recharge boon a year.

If you are a 3-star GM :
You get three replays. Those do not ever automatically refresh. When you use them they are used.
You can activate one Star Recharge boon per year, giving yourself 3 replays (assuming you do the requisite amount of GMing).

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Cyrad wrote:

I'd much rather have a ledger, like this one. Instead of an ITS or writing everything on the chronicle sheet.

It's a huge pain in the butt to audit and track a character by shuffling through 20+ pieces of paperwork.

In the past they have allowed your own personal tracking method as long as it had the required information. Hopefully in the future they still will.

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, California—Los Angeles aka Neume

Steven Lau wrote:
Cyrad wrote:

I'd much rather have a ledger, like this one. Instead of an ITS or writing everything on the chronicle sheet.

It's a huge pain in the butt to audit and track a character by shuffling through 20+ pieces of paperwork.

In the past they have allowed your own personal tracking method as long as it had the required information. Hopefully in the future they still will.

Ummm... you cannot replace a chronicle sheet with your own tracking method. You can for an ITS.

Ultimately, I was REALLY hoping we'd move to a ledger system too. I do like the removal of the ITS, but as others said, the space on the chronicle sheet will not always be enough, leading to need 2 chronicle sheets?

A ledger would be so much more convenient for everyone (even the environment).

Scarab Sages ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Netherlands aka CptJames

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ProfessorC wrote:
What worries me is the powers/feats/spells, there is no mention of retraining, which means kind of like Starfinder your first and even possibly second character are going to be generic, with only common abilities, until you can earn points to get an uncommon one.

To be honest, I don't think this is a bad thing. I have still found that there is enough variance in Starfinder that it's ok, no-one brings exactly the same character, and yes, some powers/feats/spells are better than others (*coughEnhanced Resistance*cough*) and see more play, but everyone starting the game and learning the rules, is generic really a bad thing? I don't mind seeing not highly overpowered characters with s**t tons of great gear early on. It makes it more of a immersive and thinking experience when you are just bringing overpowered things to bear and actually have to plan your way around a combat, something which I still experience and enjoy to be honest even as a GM, watching my players have to think and engage their combats is fascinating, especially as I've started Seeker PF1 which is a lot of unload dice and death in every combat.

I understand the concern, and I have no idea how it will play out in PF2 (I think everything is a varying degree of speculation until product actually drops), but as it is, I liked the way Starfinder started and has continued.

*

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Or players that will play both.

*waves*

Shadow Lodge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

*highfives*

Liberty's Edge **

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Worrying about replays for PF1 seems, well, silly.

I can see the concern on paper.
There won't be any new adventures, so people will have to replay more adventures to continuing playing PF1 publicly.
And Paizo's reasoning makes sense: to let people replay you get them to play some PF2. And once they play PF2, they'll be more likely to switch.

But... there also won't be as much PF1 at major cons. No more premiers. Fewer unplayed specials. You're much more unlikely to be playing with strangers in an environment where bookkeeping matters. You barely even need to track the paperwork at that point, since you won't be audited.
At that point, it ceases to matter if you're replaying.
It's almost a home game.

As a GM, if I have a choice between sending people home because there's not enough spots at the table and letting a couple people replay, that's a not even a question.

Really, if Paizo makes it an issue, I expect the PF1 player base will just start making alts.
Then it just becomes battle of making alts vs Paizo cracking down.
It's probably just easier to let people replay freely.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

numbat1 wrote:

Am I missing where we track Fame/Infamy?

I don't see it either.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Jester David wrote:
replays

The rules are still the rules and when you chose to participate in ORGANIZED play, you are promising to follow the rules. It would be incredibly disappointing if people started to simply ignore the rules simply because they don’t like them. Paizo didn’t have to sanction 1E play after second edition launches. It’s sort of counter-productive to them as a business. If you want to allow free replay of scenarios at you events, that’s fine, but it’s not organized play anymore and your organizers and Venture-officers should not allow it.

Scarab Sages ****

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I don't mind being able to earn 1E replays from playing PF2.

But that the only other way to earn new replays is by GMing PF1 and using expanded narrative will rapidly become an issue. In a small group of players, which I think is the most likely situation long term for continuing PF1, you won't be able to GM enough games to recharge stars. Not if all of the people in the group, or even just 2 or 3, need to recharge stars in order for tables to continue to make.

We've only got 5-6 regular players now and it's hard to find something everyone can play, even with new scenarios being released. It's going to rapidly become impossible without replays. A handful of free replays isn't going to do a lot to change that.

I think the disconnect is in Paizo saying they'll continue to support PFS1 for those who want to play it, but then creating a situation where the only reliable way of doing so is to start playing PFS2.

I don't think anyone is expecting to be able to continue weekly PFS1 games indefinitely. 5-6 replays a year, however, would let groups know they can at least get one game every other month to make. In order to get that many replays purely from GMing, you need to be able to have, what, 15? other PF1 games make? If you can't make 5-6 in the first place without replays, how are you going to get the number of games GM'd in?

Also, I think the point people are trying to make about Achievement Points is that even if you play and enjoy both systems, you're having to sacrifice spending Achievement Points on things like race boons for 2nd edition just to be able to keep playing 1st edition.

If you really want to use 1st edition replays to encourage people to participate in 2nd edition, let 2nd edition games GM'd count towards the Expanded Narrative boon for 1st edition.

Sovereign Court ** Venture-Agent, Alaska—Anchorage aka 1bent1

BigNorseWolf wrote:
I've seen more people know how to work three seashells from demolition man than the two hashmarks for starfinder

Hopefully learning the two hash marks won't be as messy but what are the two hash marks? I have only played a 4 SFS scenarios and have yet to run one so some insider info would be great.

Thanks

Shadow Lodge ****

I still have no idea what's supposed to go in that faction _|_

Giving replays for 1e is silly. Anyone still playing 1e is just going to ignore their restrictions since they won't really be supporting 1e anymore so who cares. It would only be enforced for cons, where 1e will probably get phased out shortly anyway. I see that replay announcement as pretty irrelevant.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Jonathan Carroll wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
I've seen more people know how to work three seashells from demolition man than the two hashmarks for starfinder
Hopefully learning the two hash marks won't be as messy but what are the two hash marks?

At the bottom of the starfinder chronicle sheets are a bunch of lines for your faction reputation gain and tracking. (because you can gain rep in multiple factions each session)

Faction_______ Reputation ______|______

Now you have your old reputation, your new reputation, and how much reputation you've gained this session. But As the DM you really don't want to have to collect 3 or 4 additional numbers per player (Say the scenario awards 2 reputations for an aquisitive playing online for dataphile rep) but I do have to put down how much reputation someone's earned: The player doesn't neccesarily know if they got 2 fame, met the conditions for the faction fame, so I have to put that down.

So you have 2 slots for three pieces of information: Old rep, increase, and new rep. Everyone seems sure of what two pieces of info are supposed to go there but they don't agree with each other on what those two pieces of info are.

Personally I just put one piece of info there: Dataphiles +2 and let the player figure out the rest.

Hopefully the Demolition man reference got accross that this is one of my more tongue in cheek rants. I don't think its that serious of an issue and my normal inclination towards intent goes at least doubly for paperwork.

****

Bob Jonquet wrote:
If you want to allow free replay of scenarios at you events, that’s fine, but it’s not organized play anymore and your organizers and Venture-officers should not allow it.

How do you propose they stop it? Seriously the idea that a Venture Officer could go into a game store that is allowing people to break the rules and tell them to stop is laughable.

Your only recourse is to tell them it's not official, which obviously won't matter to the people breaking the rules.

Look I'd rather see people stop playing then break the rules, but this idea that Vo's could just not allow it is extremely laughable.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Only Star wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
If you want to allow free replay of scenarios at you events, that’s fine, but it’s not organized play anymore and your organizers and Venture-officers should not allow it.

How do you propose they stop it? Seriously the idea that a Venture Officer could go into a game store that is allowing people to break the rules and tell them to stop is laughable.

Your only recourse is to tell them it's not official, which obviously won't matter to the people breaking the rules.

Look I'd rather see people stop playing then break the rules, but this idea that Vo's could just not allow it is extremely laughable.

They can not allow it at events or games they're running. They can tell people it's not official, which may matter, since not spreading the word it's not official can leave people thinking it's perfectly fine.

They can, in theory, audit characters and disallow characters benefiting from duplicate chronicles when playing at their events. (Not sure how possible that would be in practice.)

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

5 people marked this as a favorite.

It’s the same process as now. We can ban them from our events. They can still go run their own events and we can spread the word that they are operating outside the campaign. But organized play runs on trust and always will.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland— Baltimore aka Qstor

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Redgar's ACG Characters wrote:
@ Big Norse Wolf: aren't GM star replays 10/year max? 5 for Stars, and 5 for Star Refresh?

Only the first year you start refreshing.

I have a bunch that I haven't used.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You may have missed out on some of them then, as you can't refresh what you haven't used. (Barring a clarification from the campaign staff.) I've made sure to spend all of my replays before the new year just so I don't have to deal with that question.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

3 people marked this as a favorite.
The Only Star wrote:
How do you propose they stop it?

Wow, did you wildly miss the point. Our campaign is largely based on the honor system. We assume that by choosing to play, you have agreed to follow the rules. Don’t encourage people to break them simply because there isn’t a Paizo cop waiting around the corner to arrest you. Let’s demonstrate a little “truth, justice, and the American way” and not encourage people to be deceitful simply because they might be able to get away with it.

Scarab Sages ****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I have a tendency to post walls of text, and I think this thought from the end of my post got lost in that:

Ferious Thune wrote:
If you really want to use 1st edition replays to encourage people to participate in 2nd edition, let 2nd edition games GM'd count towards the Expanded Narrative boon for 1st edition.

What do people think about that idea? It's not a solution for those who want to exclusively play PFS1, but it does make it much easier to actually use the replay option currently available. And it avoids the necessity of spending a limited PFS2 resource just to be able to continue playing PFS1, since the boon is tracked independently and doesn't require spending anything.

A game GM'd is a game GM'd, whether it's for PFS1 or PFS2, so why not treat it that way on the boon?

Otherwise, I really don't see ever being able to GM enough PFS1 games in a year to recharge 4 or 5 stars. Not after the first year, anyway.

****

Bob Jonquet wrote:
The Only Star wrote:
How do you propose they stop it?
Wow, did you wildly miss the point. Our campaign is largely based on the honor system. We assume that by choosing to play, you have agreed to follow the rules. Don’t encourage people to break them simply because there isn’t a Paizo cop waiting around the corner to arrest you. Let’s demonstrate a little “truth, justice, and the American way” and not encourage people to be deceitful simply because they might be able to get away with it.

So no way to really stop it. Gotcha.

I'm not encouraging people to be deceitful because they might get away with it. I even said I'd rather them not break the rules. It's also not because "Paizo cops aren't around the corner", it's "Paizo Cops don't exist."

I'm just pointing out that your little "we VO's won't allow it" philosophy is hollow and if people are going to do it to continue to enjoy the game they've paid tons of money to play they will.

And frankly the Organized Play campaign was built on the idea of two new play opportunities a month for years, if you want the people who will continue to play PFS 1e OP to follow the OP rules then you should at least allow them that many opportunities to play without having to commit to the PFS 2e OP that they don't want to move to.

The current proposal falls short of that, and Paizo should at least find a way to hold up their end of the bargain of the PFS 1e OP if they want the player base to.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Only Star wrote:
I'm just pointing out that your little "we VO's won't allow it" philosophy is hollow and if people are going to do it to continue to enjoy the game they've paid tons of money to play they will.

I don't allow it.

Someone tries it at my table, I tell them no.

****

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
The Only Star wrote:
I'm just pointing out that your little "we VO's won't allow it" philosophy is hollow and if people are going to do it to continue to enjoy the game they've paid tons of money to play they will.

I don't allow it.

Someone tries it at my table, I tell them no.

And that's fair TOZ, but what do you do when the set up a table in the game store next to you and run it without you, and with the store's permission?

In the end the power of the VO's really are the same as any other person running a game. Even banning a PFS number wouldn't do much as online reporting isn't a requirement and not all numbers are even activated for tracking in the system.

When it comes to the ability to replay the 1st PFS OP the campaign should be looking at ways to keep these players engaged because they are loyal customers and they still want to enjoy the games. All you do by setting a way to get replays by forcing them to play 2e will sour them on 2e.

The goal should be at least 2 replays a month per person before having to use boons or Achievement Points. You also have a better chance of the players joining 2e down the road by not making them feel ostracized by still wanting to enjoy 1e.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Only Star wrote:
And that's fair TOZ, but what do you do when the set up a table in the game store next to you and run it without you, and with the store's permission?

Ban the player from my events and turn away characters with illegal replay credits earned at such other events.

****

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
The Only Star wrote:
And that's fair TOZ, but what do you do when the set up a table in the game store next to you and run it without you, and with the store's permission?
Ban the player from my events and turn away characters with illegal replay credits earned at such other events.

Right, so it's still limited to the events you have personal control over, or have a way to influence the person that does.

Nothing can stop people from splintering off and making a alternate fan run version of the PFS 1e OP like people did when they got made with Adventures League and if they only use paper chronicle sheets which are the only official reporting method they could unintentionally or intentionally mix into the Guild run PFS 1e OP.

People are going to play the games they enjoy, especially if they invested in the game.

Tying the 1e replays to PFS 2e OP is not good for the people who want to keep playing 1e. The only reason to tie them together is to try and make more profit for Paizo.

And is the Non-Profit's goal to make more money for Paizo or to run an enjoyable OP campaign? Cause that's a weird non-profit if it's purpose is to make a profit for a company.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.

That's a weird stance to take. It's bad to incentivize players to support both editions?

****

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
That's a weird stance to take. It's bad to incentivize players to support both editions?

No, it's not.

What do 2e players get by player 1e?

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A huge library of content while Paizo works to build up the 2E library.

****

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
A huge library of content while Paizo works to build up the 2E library.

That content exist outside of the OP requirement as well. That's not encouraging people to support both editions. The OP Non-Profit is trying to use 1e OP Replay to entice people to 2e OP.

Which is what it is, and really I'm not saying to not do that.

All I'm suggesting if that if you want people to stay in the 1e OP and to not form their own Shadow Lodge 1e OP is to at least provide them with the number of play opportunities a month they've been accustomed to.

Which is 2.

If you want to tie additional replays over that to boons and playing 2e that's fine.

Look, I don't want people to cheat, but in the end what I want most is for the people playing the games to enjoy themselves. If I play 2e OP I really don't want to be playing with people who are GMing or Playing just so they can replay the OP game they want to play. That will just hurt the table enjoyment of the 2e game.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Only Star wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
That's a weird stance to take. It's bad to incentivize players to support both editions?

No, it's not.

What do 2e players get by player 1e?

The same people are gaining right now, plenty of backlogs, experienced players and GMs, and frankly I have boxed of printed maps and handouts I tend to give to GMs.

PFS1 is a well-supported system, chances are that if you are interested in a topic or have a character idea, PFS1 might be able to accommodate your wishes.

PFS2 will be interesting for those that are actively looking for a simpler system, but we all know that it will take a couple of books for PFS2 to become attractive to some parts of our community.

We won't be getting new scenarios for PFS1 because Paizo wants to support their new product, the OPFs is not really involved.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I feel we should move the replay conversation to another forum, I'd like to see more discussion about the rest of the blog. Scrolling trough replay arguments are much less useful for Paizo as well.

Chronicle Sample:
Unless there are only 3 factions I would like this section to be larger to allow for every faction to be tracked on each chronicle. Have Player Name/Character name be on top of each other or something to get more space out of the top box. For Items I feel like there will not be enough space for some Scenarios, especially if there is a Scenario specific item that needs to be stated out. I'm with other posters that the right "XP/GP section should have the '-', '+' on the lines to better differentiate them as well GM Initial section that can easily be seen (GM Only) sections as in PFS1

Tags:
I like this a lot. Being able to easily look at Scenarios and get a bit more information from them. It would be nice to incorporate tags not only for 'Vehicles' but also tag them for 'Social' or 'Combat' or something to help GMs prep

***

Kaelizar wrote:


Chronicle Sample:
Unless there are only 3 factions I would like this section to be larger to allow for every faction to be tracked on each chronicle.

That's a huge waste of space for the majority of characters that will only belong to a single faction. Even characters with multiple factions can only gain reputation for one or two at a time.

**

Faction totals for all factions can go on a character sheet. They don't go down, only up. So all you really need is the faction name +X.

You usually don't gain more than two factions' rep, although I've seen three once in SFS.

Fame spent seems to be missing.

That's a lot of realestate for tracking gold.

**

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

There's not a lot of room for verbose boons, or custom magic items as a result of that layout.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

10 people marked this as a favorite.
The Only Star wrote:
So no way to really stop it. Gotcha.

Correction, there is no way to stop it if no one knows its happening. I don't know of any RVC who will allow wanton disregard for the rules to occur in their region. There are better solutions than simply ignoring the rules. If I became aware of repeated, intentional violations in my region, I do have some discretionary resource available to deal with it. If activity like this was to occur at anything like a measurable amount, I could see Paizo simply ending 1E sanctioned play. That would not stop people from playing 1E material, but it would stop them from being offered officially at events and not providing support for them. It would become nearly impossible to find 1E play outside of some very limited pockets and that would certainly hasten its demise.

You might not think you are encouraging it, but my merely having this conversation and suggesting that people can violate the rules at will without penalty, does exactly that. So please, knock it off.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

So....

Is Fame (PF2 Fame - PF1 Prestige) going to be included in the final Chronicle Sheet? Is Infamy going to be on there also, or something to put in the notes section and tracked on the character instead?

Is it going to be clearer on what goes on the Faction - __|__ thing?

Questions, I got em'.

*****

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:
If activity like this was to occur at anything like a measurable amount, I could see Paizo simply ending 1E sanctioned play. That would not stop people from playing 1E material, but it would stop them from being offered officially at events and not providing support for them.

I was under the impression that 1e convention style support would end post the release of 2e. Are you suggesting that we can still put in requests for scenarios to be released to 1e GM's, that race boons will continue to be provided etc?

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

3 people marked this as a favorite.

As far as we know, yes.

51 to 100 of 125 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Paizo Blog: Pathfinder Society Second Edition Preview: Chronicle Sheets, Rarity, and More! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.