Starfinder Society Year 2

John Brinkman wrote:

That Ysoki in the logo looks a little ominous. Looking forward to Year 2. Year of the Hungry Ysoki - A thousand bites.

I don’t think that’s a Ysoki. I *think* that is the unholy symbol of Lao Sho Po, Grandmother Rat....

It would be extremely unnerving to know that the unholy symbol of Lao Sho Po now consists the bitten remains of the second seeker's logo.

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

This might be a local issue, but players tend to build a number of characters to get a feel for the system instead of just playing the same character, it's not great but on the flip side it allows us not to drag scenarios into another subtier (to prevent some players being unhappy about it).

On a related note, can we get level 12 pregens...

Yes, there are people who've been going onto the level 12 bandwagon (in fact, I recently ran an event where a few players were discussing surpassing it). The intent of this Subtier range isn't to cover them. Instead, these higher Subtiers exist to cover regions that don't run the interactive right at release and that would likely be running this closer to the start of next year, where these extra Tiers could be a huge help entice experienced players.

Another element of this interactive, is that we want to make sure that this it is appealing for players to play years from now. I know there's several communities that routinely pull "old specials" out for playing at local events, and several of them specifically use these for what higher level content they can gather.

Finally, I know that if we presented another Tier 1-8 interactive, people would decry the lack of level advancement and (falsely) proclaim that the "Starfinder Sky is Falling" which it is most certainly not! In fact, I'm so very excited for some of the big changes coming up in Season 2, along with delivering on some promises I've had since the beginning of the campaign.

All that being said, I'm actually somewhat pleasantly surprised that for once someone is requesting "less Subtiers", especially after receiving a lot of feedback on #1-99 and how people were disappointed it only went as high as it did! Looking forward, we may review the Tier ranges in the future, more because of the size and required time in these monumental projects than out of us trying to keep a level cap on things for Society play.

As usual, feedback is welcome! :)

Fair enough I had honestly not considered the fact that many areas will not get to run 2-00 for quite some time, though I would like to repeat my request for high-level pregen, otherwise, I might have to require a higher minimum number of players for those tables of cancel them.

I personally see nothing wrong with the "Eyes of the Ten" effect due to no pregens. But that is just me. Also, I think concerns about difficulty are purely theoretical. Based on the higher level content we already have, there does not appear to be any issue. But again, maybe my experience is skewed somehow.

I personally see nothing wrong with the "Eyes of the Ten" effect due to no pregens. But that is just me. Also, I think concerns about difficulty are purely theoretical. Based on the higher level content we already have, there does not appear to be any issue. But again, maybe my experience is skewed somehow.

After EeoT it took 5 years until another seeker scenario got released.

Regarding difficulty i have noticed that my local core group has a very high system mastery and most of the times just breeze through scenarios without rarely being challenged while i see other less optimized characters struggle or fail in the few harder encounters that my group would consider a welcome challenge. That is why i brought up the idea of a "hard mode" which is also used in some of the later pfs retirement scenarios to give groups some way to adjust the wanted challenge.

I personally see nothing wrong with the "Eyes of the Ten" effect due to no pregens. But that is just me. Also, I think concerns about difficulty are purely theoretical. Based on the higher level content we already have, there does not appear to be any issue. But again, maybe my experience is skewed somehow.

If 4 people start Eyes of the Ten (which frankly would not be a bad idea considering the difficulty) and one of them has to drop out for a number of reasons, the other players are pretty much screwed since they can't legally continue. Since these need to be played in order, only a player that has played part 1 (and just that) could join them in part 2.

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For conventions and multi-tables in general, things are not that much better. If I get 3 crazy players turn up at my event, adamantly wanting to play 2-00 with their tricked out level 12 characters I only have bad options:

- Let them play with a level 8 pregen, and play a scenario that is usually written for 6 players. That sounds rough, but they might go for it, though if one of those players can't attend for RL reasons, I could ask a player to play up, but I don't think that I could recommend it to anyone.

- Either as the first solution or as the result of the one directly above it, I could try to place them in the next lower tier, and hopefully, have enough GMs to build some smaller tables to try to provide a challenge. I am not entirely sure how the players that play in tier would feel about it, best case the level 12 player is very likely to steal the show, worst case, enemies learn that hitting the level 12 Soldier with the level 14 armor and DR 12 is not worth it, and they focus on the other characters.

This is likely one of the better options, but it would also likely mean, that the 3 high-level players could not play together at the same table.

- I would have to ask the players to play a lower level character or a pregen, and depending on how invested they were into playing high tier that option can end up quite disappointing as well.

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Of course, this might just be the way I organized events, GMs should know about 1 week before the event which subtier they have to prep and which classes will be at their table. We do this to give GMs adequate time to prep their statblocks, handouts, pawns, miniatures etc. and personally I think it gives the players a better experience.

My other problem is that I want every player to have a great time, it really sucks when a table does not work and I am trying everything (including having a number of reserve GMs - a really thankless job I usually do myself - who prep every scenario to replace any GM that can't run their table).

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If we have pregens, I can ask one of the reserve GMs that is scheduled to GM (or any other nice player) to maybe try a pregen to experience the higher subtier, and help those other players who have been looking forward to it.

Its is pretty amazing what can be possible if you are nice to your other players and GMs, and I try to reward this behaviour in my players.

So high-level pregens would be very much needed, and frankly while I would hesitate to run 12+ PFS1 material at a public convention, it might be perfectly viable to run a 9-12 or higher at a public event. Any table where new players can't legally play is problematic in some locations.

You make some good points. I would still prefer not to have level 12 pregens, but it would benefit me if they were to come out by GenCon. I do desire to play the 11-12 tier in 2-00. I suppose this makes me ambivalent.

So high-level pregens would be very much needed, and frankly while I would hesitate to run 12+ PFS1 material at a public convention, it might be perfectly viable to run a 9-12 or higher at a public event. Any table where new players can't legally play is problematic in some locations.

Outside of specials, like 2-00. I would love to see some level 12 pregens so that if I run a table at my FLGS, where I can only run 1 table, and I get a walk-in and I'm running a Level 9-12 Scenario, I would much rather say to them: "If you'd like to try out some high level play, I have a host of premade characters ready to go!" or if I have a new-ish regular that might've been coming the last 3-4 sessions, I can say to them that it is a fun time to experience high level play, and since these don't happen very often, come have some fun with us still, and play a pre-gen!

Basically, in my opinion, level 12 pregens allow for more inclusive experiences, especially at the local stores. I would hate having to turn somebody away just because they aren't super invested in Society play yet.

I'd have to agree. For me its less than new players (handing a new player a level 8 pregen is asking for trouble, much less 12), more for 3 player tables.

If you have 8 people signed up to play its important to be able to ask one of the players to GM a second table leaving you with 2 tables of 3 players each. The more the merrier from that point, but the 3 player minimum is important to facilitate community growth.

But yes it can be difficult to include newer players and run higher tier. Especially on the first run, when all the experienced GMs want to play it. Best you can do in this case is get a newer player to GM a low tier repeatable.

I'd have to agree. For me its less than new players (handing a new player a level 8 pregen is asking for trouble, much less 12), more for 3 player tables.

If you have 8 people signed up to play its important to be able to ask one of the players to GM a second table leaving you with 2 tables of 3 players each. The more the merrier from that point, but the 3 player minimum is important to facilitate community growth.

But yes it can be difficult to include newer players and run higher tier. Especially on the first run, when all the experienced GMs want to play it. Best you can do in this case is get a newer player to GM a low tier repeatable.

We switched to doing Slot 0s for our GMs and the reserve GMs (the second one is a really nasty job, you have to prep without a really good chance that you actually get to run it), that helped me find enough GMs willing to prep something that takes that much prep.

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

So high-level pregens would be very much needed, and frankly while I would hesitate to run 12+ PFS1 material at a public convention, it might be perfectly viable to run a 9-12 or higher at a public event. Any table where new players can't legally play is problematic in some locations.

Outside of specials, like 2-00. I would love to see some level 12 pregens so that if I run a table at my FLGS, where I can only run 1 table, and I get a walk-in and I'm running a Level 9-12 Scenario, I would much rather say to them: "If you'd like to try out some high level play, I have a host of premade characters ready to go!" or if I have a new-ish regular that might've been coming the last 3-4 sessions, I can say to them that it is a fun time to experience high level play, and since these don't happen very often, come have some fun with us still, and play a pre-gen!

Basically, in my opinion, level 12 pregens allow for more inclusive experiences, especially at the local stores. I would hate having to turn somebody away just because they aren't super invested in Society play yet.

I want to be as inclusive as possible and provide a great experience for everybody, to guarantee that I sometimes have to limit some things to reduce the risk of tables collapsing.

Pregens could be a safety net for 4 player tables, if they lose just one player.

+1 for 12th level Pregens.

I think that 12th level pregens would be great to have available for society play, for exactly the safety net reason that Sebastian noted.

Pregens are on the radar, but no announcements on them at this time.

Makes me wish I could go to Origins this year instead of Gen Con - darn those graduating students!

No worries, we are offering all the new Starfinder scenarios at Gen Con including 2-00 on Friday night. Not only can you play all the Origins releases at Gen Con, we will also have a few new releases on top of that. Should be a great show!

12th level Pregens

Ugh! It’s bad enough we have to deal with players who have little experience with the character and don’t know what it can do at level 7/8 which will likely be even worse at level 12, but the typical disparity of effectiveness between a pregen and a fully developed player-character will be even greater at that level. Not in favor of level 12 pregens. YMMV

Quote:

12th level Pregens

Ugh! It’s bad enough we have to deal with players who have little experience with the character and don’t know what it can do at level 7/8 which will likely be even worse at level 12, but the typical disparity of effectiveness between a pregen and a fully developed player-character will be even greater at that level. Not in favor of level 12 pregens. YMMV

My mileage does vary :P

I think the current Starfinder pregens are not so great. They're rather "brittle" - put a CR 1 fire immune devil in front of half of them and they don't have a weapon that can affect it. Ask the xenoseeker technomancer about Culture (a trained only skill) and it turns out she has no ranks. It's not just a matter of "but they're iconics, the stats need to match the theme". They're not so good at that either.

Yeah, no surprise that they compare unfavorably to proper PCs.

Compare this to the difference in Pathfinder between especially the CRB pregens and the ACG pregens. Harsk is well, Harsk. Kyra only knows three skills and has a lot of healing spells prepared, despite being able to spontaneously switch to those anyway. Meanwhile, Enora is optimized to the gills with pretty much the top 10 of best arcane spells, and gets some custom magic items that really put her over the line. Adowyn relies on the Deadeye Bowman trait to be a really efficient archer at a bargain price. I don't mind her being good, but you gotta admit that's a rather recherché trick. A long shot from the damning simplicity of the CRB pregens.

So what I'd really like to see was a compromise where the SFS pregens get made more robust, a bit more optimized so they feel heroic, but not quite to the somewhat cheesy level of the ACG pregens.

There are real benefits to more robust pregens:
- Pregens that don't underwhelm are a more positive experience for new players.
- Pregens that don't underwhelm at high tier make scheduling easier because it'll be more enjoyable for players who don't have a character in the right tier.
- People use pregens as an example for building their first character. This would also reduce the number of really unfortunate experiences by new players.
- "A party of pregens should be able to survive it" is used as a floor for difficulty in scenarios, especially L1-4 scenarios. That does mean that they can be a bit too easy for everyone else, which is also not fun. Bringing up the floor a bit to create a tighter difficulty band makes it easier to design scenarios that just hit the sweet spot.

Again, I'm not saying I want cheeseweasel pregens. But a bit more robust. And yes, I'll volunteer my time to help design more robust pregens.

Again, I'm not saying I want cheeseweasel pregens. But a bit more robust. And yes, I'll volunteer my time to help design more robust pregens.

Yeah I don't mind helping in that department either. It needs to be fun for new players as well as a good experience of all pregens...and at the moment, it's better to play some pregens than others from what people tell me.

I'll volunteer my time to help design more robust pregens

If Paizo had a dollar for every time someone in the community offered they could hire another developer

at the moment, it's better to play some pregens than others from what people tell me.

cries in Altronus

Alright all set for the season...

I am getting ready to submit my Rising Star Capstone Boon and am looking for a little clarification. It says to send a 75 word description of the character. Are you looking for a physical description, personality description, history, or some combination of all of those?

I am getting ready to submit by Rising Star Capstone Boon and am looking for a little clarification. It says to get a 75 word description of the character. Are you looking for a physical description, personality description, history, or some combination of all of those?

The description I submitted for mine was a combination of personality and physical. I didn't get into history at all. I received a reply from Tonya stating what I submitted was just what they asked for.

I did wish we had more words to work with...

Sounds like you made the better narrative choice than me.

Bill Baldwin wrote:

I am getting ready to submit by Rising Star Capstone Boon and am looking for a little clarification. It says to get a 75 word description of the character. Are you looking for a physical description, personality description, history, or some combination of all of those?

The description I submitted for mine was a combination of personality and physical. I didn't get into history at all. I received a reply from Tonya stating what I submitted was just what they asked for.

Thank you!

I think with these things it's not about being complete - if you're giving a physical description, you don't have to list hair color, skin color, eye color, structure of cheekbones, hairstyle, wrinkles, waist size etc.

Don't think like a detective trying to put a perp sketch together. Think more like a writer who singles out one or two characteristics that really stand out and evoke a feeling. "Come-hither eyes", "rockstar tattoos that spell Trouble", "a wedding ring on a punching hand".

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I'll volunteer my time to help design more robust pregens

If Paizo had a dollar for every time someone in the community offered they could hire another developer

Ain't that the truth.

A few points from a different lodge that what seems to be the vocal majority.

First, in Saint Louis, we run every new scenario twice every month. We also run 4 back-plays a month. We still need more to satisfy our player base. Because that doesn't seem like something that is going to happen anytime soon, we also run APs. This isn't some way to power game or manipulate the system, it's a way to continue to offer SFS in a community which regularly plays so much SFS that we simply run out of things to play.

Second, congruent to my first point, we sometimes have to offer repeatables in a way that affords more play opportunities without forcing people to make even more characters. Thus, we have characters that are level 5 on repeatable content alone. (Quest, 1-01, AP1, AP7, 1-12, 1-16, 1-25, 1-32). Putting a glass ceiling above these players just because others do not have the same option is not in the spirit of the society. Growing the pyramid by expanding both outward and upward ensures lots of content for everyone. The mentality of holding others back because you can't advance is frustrating. So is the mindset that content should only grow upward like a tower. I am grateful for the plan moving forward.

Third, I have to agree with Bob. Handing a level 12 soldier with 2 combat styles, 12 feats, 3 gear boosts, several conditional abilities, possibly powered armor to track the charge level of, weapons of multiple damage types, maybe DR and adaptive resistance, a jet pack to track charges of, etc. to a newer player just so they can play would be obnoxious. At that point, they aren't playing, you are playing for them. That's just what Obozaya could easily be. Now let's add Quig and have them run 2 characters of level 12.

You run the risk of potentially overwhelming a new or low level player. Or worse, you're going to turn them away and tell them they can't play, but they can sit and watch the grown ups. In my opinion it's better to pull out a repeatable and include everyone in a compatible tier and include the low level or prospective member of the Society than it is to exclude them or overwhelm and discourage them.

I understand there are also times when a level 8 character will want to play at the 9-12, and that would be perfectly reasonable and a much smaller jump. But for those of you using your low table frequency and preponderance of mostly low or mid level players, the addition of a level 12 pregen this early in the campaign seems contrary to your needs.

Fourth, I am completely in favor of level 12 pregens when there is so much content that a player is playing said pregen in that tier because they genuinely want to try a level 12 class. I know I said it in three, but I'm going to say it again. In my opinion, it is better to change the table to something everyone can play than it is to exclude people or split the tables and offer it again for the other half that graciously ensured no one was turned away.

No one should feel unable to play in an OPF game if you have 4 or more people present.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but did we ever get the Scenario tags for the Season 2 release scenarios?

Bill Baldwin wrote:

I am getting ready to submit by Rising Star Capstone Boon and am looking for a little clarification. It says to get a 75 word description of the character. Are you looking for a physical description, personality description, history, or some combination of all of those?

The description I submitted for mine was a combination of personality and physical. I didn't get into history at all. I received a reply from Tonya stating what I submitted was just what they asked for.

I went first into appearance, then personality, then his background and motivations. I figured Having all that info would make it easier for them to write the character how I Invision them.

I have a slotless boon from season 2 that awards 4 fame. Is this in addition, or in substitution, of the normal rewards?