Pathfinder Battles: Remembering the Fallen

Tuesday, March 04, 2019

Now that we've shown off all the figures in the standard Ruins of Lastwall set of prepainted plastic miniatures over the past few weeks, that leaves just the premium set for today's blog. Over the history of the line, we've switched between extra-large figures like dragons and giants and hydras and themed dungeon dressing like the Rusty Dragon Inn and the Court of the Crimson Throne. For Ruins of Lastwall, we suggested a cemetery set to WizKids, who at first seemed hesitant to do it (we later learned that they were doing a similar set in their Icons of the Realms product line). When they heard the pieces we wanted to include, however, they got really excited. The end result is one of the most impressive sets of dungeon dressing I think I've ever seen.

Illustration by Joel Holtzman

Each Cemetery of the Fallen Setincludes a working cemetery gate, two 2" fence segments, four 4" fence segments, a mausoleum with removable roof, a mausoleum coffin, four each of two varieties of tombstone, and two each of two stone coffins.

Cemetery of the Fallen is also the first premium set to use new packaging that displays the content inside. You can see both the packaging and a sample set all laid out together at New York Toy Fair a few weeks ago.

Photos: Erik Mona

That wraps up our previews for the Ruins of Lastwall release, due out later this spring from WizKids. When I next grace the blog with another preview, it'll likely be about the forthcoming Iconic Heroes Evolved set, also due out later this spring. Until then, don't split the party!

Mark Moreland
Franchise Manager

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Tags: Licensed Products Miniatures Pathfinder Battles Ruins of Lastwall
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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Cori Marie wrote:
Which adventure is the apparatus of the Octopus from?

Hmmmm, it may not be from an adventure, it is in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting : Aquatic Adventures. Still, without the Pathfinder Battles label, you aren’t going to see this wonderful vehicle that has much gameplay potential:

Apparatus of the Octopus

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

AH that explains why I didn't recognize it. I've not read that book. (Nor have I read through Ruins of Azlant, but I am listening to the Glass Cannon guys play it)

Dark Archive

Wizkids have announced their 13th Icons of the Realms set "Volo's & Mordenkainen's Foes" for december 2019.

It is still priced at $15.99 per booster.

Pathfinder Battles set 17 "Legendary Adventures" is priced $17.99.

That seems to be the new price for PFB boosters going forward.

There is no word yet on "Starfinder Battles" pricing, but i expect the first set in early 2020.

Wizkids has als announced starship & space station interior as part of their 4D line for 2020.

Web Product Manager

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Removed a post. If you have feedback about the timing of solicitations and previews, please keep it constructive. In the future, this feedback is also better placed in the Website Feedback subforum.


Marco Massoudi wrote:

Wizkids have announced their 13th Icons of the Realms set "Volo's & Mordenkainen's Foes" for december 2019.

It is still priced at $15.99 per booster.

Pathfinder Battles set 17 "Legendary Adventures" is priced $17.99.

That seems to be the new price for PFB boosters going forward.

There is no word yet on "Starfinder Battles" pricing, but i expect the first set in early 2020.

Wizkids has als announced starship & space station interior as part of their 4D line for 2020.

The quality of the PF battles sets is normally superior to that of the Icons of the Realms sets. I buy the PF Battles sets knowing I'm paying a higher price for a better quality. If the quality went down in the PF sets I would probably stop buying boosters all together.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Huge minis was one of the biggest differences between the two lines, and now we have that to look forward to in Legendary Adventures! I can’t wait to see what the Second set in the history of Pathfinder Battles has to offer from the many hge creatures that haven’t been made yet!

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Berk the Black wrote:
Huge minis was one of the biggest differences between the two lines, and now we have that to look forward to in Legendary Adventures! I can’t wait to see what the Second set in the history of Pathfinder Battles has to offer from the many hge creatures that haven’t been made yet!

Me neither!

Unfortunately it may take a very long time until we'll get another minis blog.

Wizkids has already shown the actual "Infernal War machine" miniature prototype, which will be out in august.
We havn't seen any pictures of the actual "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" minis, which are also out in august. ;-(

It's 47 days to Gen Con, where both of these sets will likely be showcased.

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The Goblin Village was previewed by Wizkids!

It will contain over 20 pieces, including multiple creature minis like the "Goblin chief", "goblin babies", "magic pig" and "goblin golem".

@Mark Moreland: The price is given at $99.99 - can you verify that or is it a typo?

Here is a link to the icv2 article

Release date is september 18th - in exactly 3 months - time to roll out the previews. ;-)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:


Release date is september 18th - in exactly 3 months

oh bugger, I won’t have my shelfspace extention ready by then.

Dark Archive

$99.99 for the Goblin Village seems to scare everyone on minisgallery away.

I already pre-ordered so i don't care.

I also decided to buy every D&D ppm & the three first 4D sets from Wizkids published in 2019, even if this year is the year with the highest number of ppm releases EVER!

2019

February:
-Falling Star Sailing Ship

March:
-Dungeon of the Mad Mage & Halaster's Lab

May:
Ruins of Lastwall & Cemetary of the Fallen

UPCOMING:

August:
-Walking Statue of Waterdeep: The honorable Knight

-Descent into Avernus & Infernal War Machine

-Legendary Adventures Preview Pack

-Jungle Shrine 4D

September:
-Legendary Adventures & Goblin Village

-Iconic Heroes Evolved

October:
-Gas Station 4D

-Castle Barracks 4D

December:
-Volo & Mordenkainen's Foes & Elder Brain & stalagmites

Dark Archive

$99.99 seems to be the official price for the "Goblin Village" premium set/case incentive of the "Legendary Adventures" set.

43 days until the "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" intended release date on august 1st (Gen Con).

13 weeks/91 days until the intended street date of the "Legendary Adventures" full set & goblin village!

Dark Archive

I don't think that "Pathfinder Battles: Legendary Adventures" will be a best-seller.

The price is too high for most people - $17.99 per booster compared to $15.99 for "D&D: Icons of the Realms" sets.

The price of the "Goblin Village" being $99.99 compared to $69.99 & $49.99 for the next two D&D sets scares almost everyone away (Kor & me are the only ones who have stated to get it so far).

Wizkids & Wizards of the Coast also do a good job of promoting the next D&D set (i have seen pictures of actual minis & the Infernal War Machine), whereas Wizkids is doing nothing to promote "Legendary Adventures" and we only had one icv2 article on february 5th and a blog of computer renders from Paizo on february 8th.

I hope i am wrong and that previews of the set start very soon.


Mmm, $99.99 is a bit much for what I've seen of the Goblin Village. I am sure it is very nice, but I am not sure it is one hundred dollars worth of nice.

And yes, it would be nice for more information/blogs/previews to be made available on these products.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
knightnday wrote:
Mmm, $99.99 is a bit much for what I've seen of the Goblin Village. I am sure it is very nice, but I am not sure it is one hundred dollars worth of nice.

I‘d probably not get it outside my subscroption unless it contained some actual minis, like the COURT OF THE CRIMSON THRONE had 3 minis with bases plus 2 royalty on throne.

I‘m still on the fence about keeping my subscription till I see what‘s inside the case but the camp is a plus.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It does have some minis, it's just a question of how many (Goblin Chief, Goblin Babies, and Magic Pig have been mentioned).


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The “minis” are more like scenery, as they don’t have standard round black bases. The goblin kids are a great idea, even if it is four of them huddled together. I agree, though, that without a subscription this incentive seems a bit overpriced. But that is without knowing how many wall segments (4? 8?) and tents are included. And this incentive is so very iconic Pathfinder, it is going to be hard to resist. I certainly have the goblin horde to fill it full of life.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
It does have some minis, it's just a question of how many (Goblin Chief, Goblin Babies, and Magic Pig have been mentioned).

Magic pig looks like it might get a base under the mud and I‘d be surprised if we don’t get the goblin chief as a based rare at least in the case, if not in the incentive.

hopefully the tents and pallisade are big enough to serve as bigger folk camp (lizard, hobgoblin etc.) and generic enough for kobolds.

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So when can we expect another minis blog?

The "Ruins of Lastwall" set has been out for 5 weeks.

The "Legendary Adventures preview pack" will probably be sold at Gen Con by Wizkids.
It isn't part of the july/Gen Con 2019 subscriptions from Paizo, so it will hopefully ship with the august 2019 new releases which have a street date of august 28th (in 9 weeks).

There isn't a product page yet. ;-(

The full "Legendary Adventures" set is atm expected for september 18th in 12 weeks.

I know that the "Lost Omens World Guide" takes up blog time for the next three weeks, but this is the premiere Second Edition minis set and should also be presented imo.

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No minis blog in june, but i wasn't expecting one anyway.

Next week, Wizkids should update the release dates for (some or all of) their august products.

Dark Archive

Wizkids have updated their release schedule and the "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" has a street date of august 7th, that's in exactly 5 weeks.

Wizkids will certainly have the actual minis at Gen Con on august 1st, though.

There will be a minis release from Wizkids EVERY WEEK in august & i expect them all to be showcased at Gen Con.

There hasn't been a product page created for the minis on paizo.com, but there is a Legendary Adventures placeholder.

Better start the previews asap, as the full set is supposed to come out in september.

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It's been four months since the last minis blog!

I guess with all the Second Edition products coming directly from Paizo, this licensed product from Wizkids is the lowest on the priority list of Pathfinder products to be presented.

This may very well be my final Pathfinder minis product, depending on quality and creature selection.
Frankly, i also find the lack of previews a reason to rethink my dedication to this line.

Personally, i think Wizkids wouldn't be too sad with the cancellation of the "Pathfinder Battles" prepainted line, as the D&D minis are selling much better and receive a lot of advertising and Wizkids is ramping up their own minis production considerably.

If the Pathfinder Battles line is to continue, i think that Paizo needs to become a lot more pro-active and present the minis on twitch or something. I have been collecting and monitoring ppm for a long time and never has the competition been so strong.

I hope that "Legendary Adventures" will sell good, but i am not convinced of it.


I have to agree with many of the things the Marco has been saying. I am an avid miniatures collector and have a full set of Pathfinder miniatures for every set released thus far. But I am likely to end that streak and not continue with the Legendary Adventures set.

I always enjoyed the weekly previews and looked forward to them every week. The lack of previews definitely has diminished my interest in the line. Additional factors contributing to my decision include:

The failed Starfinder miniatures kickstarter, which I don't foresee ever completing, despite the empty promises made, which has definitely soured my opinion of Paizo as well. (Perhaps unfairly so, but it's definitely on my mind.)

The over saturation of the market. I may continue with the Dungeons & Dragons sets for a while longer. They have some nice miniatures coming out in the future. The Walking Statue of Waterdeep looks so cool. And I'm a big Faerun fan. Also, with word that a Wizkids Starfinder line is coming out, I can't viably afford three lines of miniatures at the same time. I'll probably pick up some of the Starfinder sets if they look good.

Lack of physical space. With a full collection of Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder miniature series. Plus a full collection of the first four Reaper Bones miniature kickstarters, my basement is literally overflowing with miniatures and I don't know where I will be able to continue to store new additions.

Finally, the transition between 1st and 2nd edition Pathfinder is a nice clean cutoff point for me to make this decision. From the playtest I saw, 2nd edition doesn't appeal to me. Maybe the final product will, but that will remain to be seen.

Dark Archive

The Pathfinder Battles Goblin Village Premium Set includes
the following items:

-Large Tent x1
-Small Tent x2
-Barricade x3
-Child Cage x1
-Bonfire x2
-Junk Statue x1
-Junk Pile x2
-Pickle Barrel x2
-Throne x1
-Chief Goblin x1
-Goblin Babies x1
-Palisade Gate x1
-Palisade Walls x3
-Pigpen Gate x1
-Pigpen Fence x4
-Magic Pig x1

If you want this set, some online-shops sell it for $50, others for $70 and still others for $100.

There is also still no product page for the "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" despite it being coming out in exactly one month, nor for the full set which will be out in september.

Dark Archive

What's up with the Pathfinder Battles blog?

The "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" has an official release date of august 7th - that is exactly in 4 weeks.
Yet there is no product page on paizo.com.
I also havn't seen a picture of an actual mini from that set, yet i have seen pictures of actual minis from the D&D set which releases three weeks later!

The full "Pathfinder Battles: Legendary Adventures" set has a september 2019 street date and will be in stores in between 8 and 11 weeks.

I have decided that it will be the last Pathfinder set that i have pre-ordered, as Paizo doesn't seem to be able or willing to show their customers what minis they can expect in a set.

I will instead pre-order D&D minis and Wizkids minis, as these are shown mostly early enough so that i don't have to "blind-order".

Personally i don't think that the Pathfinder Battles line has a long future ahead of it.

I may pre-order the first "Starfinder Battles" set, but only if i know what is in it BEFORE official order cut-off.

I have been collecting PFB since the very first set "Heroes & Monsters" and it was mostly fun, but for me it isn't any more.


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It's a real shame. Silence is the silent killer.


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I really miss the weekly miniatures update we used to get as well. I know they caused me to spend more than I would have otherwise, both directly from Paizo and from my local suppliers.

I am still thankful for Marco keeping my excitement high about new sets since I rarely hear about them otherwise anymore.

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Incognito wrote:

I really miss the weekly miniatures update we used to get as well. I know they caused me to spend more than I would have otherwise, both directly from Paizo and from my local suppliers.

I am still thankful for Marco keeping my excitement high about new sets since I rarely hear about them otherwise anymore.

I am glad to be of service and i too miss the weekly blogs. :-)

Back in the day when Erik Mona, (who is clearly a big minis fan personally) was doing them, it drove me to buying more, same as you.

I would like to point you (and everyone else who is passionate about minis) to minisgallery.com, where a lot of very nice people discuss and post daily news about minis and the Kor, who runs the site has full galleries of most prepainted minis series from D&D to Star Wars and beyond. :-)

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

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Marco Massoudi wrote:

What's up with the Pathfinder Battles blog?

The "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" has an official release date of august 7th - that is exactly in 4 weeks.
Yet there is no product page on paizo.com.
I also havn't seen a picture of an actual mini from that set

We showed all eight figures in the set in the Legendary Adventures announcement blog in February.

Preview blogs will resume as soon as there's room on the blog for them, but we've been pretty busy with the launch of Second Edition. And I am still committed to getting them all revealed before subscription authorizations run, as I've previously states. We've still got almost two months before September subscriptions begin to roll out.

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Mark Moreland wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

What's up with the Pathfinder Battles blog?

The "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" has an official release date of august 7th - that is exactly in 4 weeks.
Yet there is no product page on paizo.com.
I also havn't seen a picture of an actual mini from that set

We showed all eight figures in the set in the Legendary Adventures announcement blog in February.

Preview blogs will resume as soon as there's room on the blog for them, but we've been pretty busy with the launch of Second Edition. And I am still committed to getting them all revealed before subscription authorizations run, as I've previously states. We've still got almost two months before September subscriptions begin to roll out.

First: thank you for your answer, Mark. :-)

I have to correct you on some things, though:

1.) Yes, you showed the renders for the "Legendary Adventures preview pack" very early and early enough to get a good enough sense of it's content to decide if to pre-order or not (which i did through my FLGS).
Thank you for doing that. :-)

What i meant was, that we havn't seen pictures of the ACTUAL minis (which is the case with minis from the next D&D set coming out at the end of august), but only of the renders.
However, as you said it's a busy time for Paizo with the upcoming Second Edition and i fully understand that there is no time to do that now.

What i don't understand however, is that there is no product page for the "Legendary Adventures preview pack", when the street date (august 7th) is only 22 days away.
People who saw your blog back in february have likely forgotten about it as they havn't been able to order the products since then on www.paizo.com.

2.) September 2019 products have a street date of september 18th, which means rollout/shipping starts on september 2nd.
That means if the minis blog would be to start this week, we would have only 6 blogs before rollout.
As you have already shown us 4 minis from the full "Legendary Adventures" set back in february plus the incentive, that would leave 46 minis to be shown, or if you also count the 8 minis from the "Legendary Adventures preview pack" (which i assume to differ only in paint-jobs from the full set versions) it would still leave 38 minis.

The arguments of waiting for room on the blog and been busy with Second Edition are not sound to me, as i remember multiple times in the past when there were two new blogs presented on the same day and this minis set IS part of the Second Edition.

I am not trying to be an @$$ here, i just want to explain my point of view and this is by no means meant personal, as i know that it's a very busy time for you and all paizo employees.
I hope it get's less stressfull for all of you asap.

Thank you for listening to my rant and have a good time everyone! :-)

Dark Archive

Wizkids have added another terrain pack to their already impressive 4D line:

"Wizkids 4D: Medieval Farm" will be out in november 2019 and add 31 pieces (chicken, cows, oxen, haystacks, farm buildings, carts etc.) for $99.99.

I don't think we will see many terrain case incentives for D&D and PFB in the future, as Wizkids is now doing them themselves.

I think february 2020's first Icons of the Realms set will include a gargantuan or colossal creature.

Heck, august 21st's "The Honorable Knight" mini is colossal in size and sold seperately!

Sadly the "Legendary Adventures previews pack" still doesn't have a product page, three weeks before august 7th's street date.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:
Heck, august 21st's "The Honorable Knight" mini is colossal in size and sold seperately!

Right? It's eleven inches tall apparently. :o

By the way, did you ever pick up the Fallen Star Ship (or get a chance to see it in person?) We're possibly going into a pirate campaign and I swear this is going to be one of the most impressive reveals ever. I've picked up some ballista figures and have some cannons on the way too, plus added a rowboat from somewhere or other - it's a really, really impressive backdrop and quite functional, in terms of gameplay, imo.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I agree, the Falling star is perfect as scenery and very functional for gameplay. I picked up four of the Nolzur’s Miniatures Ballistas and put them on larger bases. Sadly, our pirate campaign had ended about a year before this came out, it would have worked so well during that. Still, it will see table time, as ships are a rather common occurrence in our games. I’m still looking for an excuse to work in the Apparatus of the Octopus as well.

Dark Archive

Steve Geddes wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:
Heck, august 21st's "The Honorable Knight" mini is colossal in size and sold seperately!

Right? It's eleven inches tall apparently. :o

By the way, did you ever pick up the Fallen Star Ship (or get a chance to see it in person?) We're possibly going into a pirate campaign and I swear this is going to be one of the most impressive reveals ever. I've picked up some ballista figures and have some cannons on the way too, plus added a rowboat from somewhere or other - it's a really, really impressive backdrop and quite functional, in terms of gameplay, imo.

Hey Steve,

i wrote a lenghty answer, but the forum ate it.
So short: I have it & love it & used it for the "Bloodwind" in AP #111 with medium ballista minis. ;-)
I wish you lots of fun with it in your pirate campaign (Skull & Shackles?)! :-)

On another note:
Wizkids just announced something very similiar to the "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" for october 2019:
The "D&D Icons of the Realms Monster Pack: Village Raiders", which will contain 3 goblins, 2 Orcs & 2 Gnolls and is supposed to be the first in the "Monster Pack" series.

Dark Archive

The "Legendary Adventures Preview Pack" is gonna be in store in exactly 2 weeks, yet there is no official page for it, neither on wizkids.com, nor on paizo.com.

The full "Legendary Adventures" set is scheduled for september - that means in between 6 and 9 weeks exactly (my guess is in 8 weeks, three weeks after the next D&D set).


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My bet is that we will not be seeing any previews until after GenCon Still, I happen to like Pathfinder minis way more than any others. Have even started painting again, with the unpainted line. Still look forward to the previews of the painted ones when we can get them.

Dark Archive

Yeah, we'll probably get 4 weekly blogs in august and that's it.
Way to go.


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Everything is being pushed around by PF2's launch (and probably staff churn hasnt helped either).

Personally, I'm willing to write off the marketting/prerelease support of this set as an aberration. I doubt its "the new normal". They brought in a new webstore manager and a new PR team just before convention season and just as they rebooted their flagship line. We all love the minis previews but a couple of releases from a licensed partner is clearly pretty small fry next to a new edition.

I suspect they'll revert to more spread out and earlier previews once theyre able to.


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I'm not so concerned with previews as much as having a store page and a solid street date. Cases are expensive and I set aside some money each paycheck for them. If the street date slips, I'd like to free up some of that money for other things.

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Fumarole wrote:
I'm not so concerned with previews as much as having a store page and a solid street date. Cases are expensive and I set aside some money each paycheck for them. If the street date slips, I'd like to free up some of that money for other things.

I mostly agree.

In the case of the "L.A. Preview Pack", Mark Morland has done a superb job of showcasing all 8 minis six months before the sets street date.
We know what is inside it and we know when it is expected in stores (august 7th) and we know the price ($29.99).

Yet people are not able to order it directly from Paizo, because there is no product page.
They are able to order it through online-sellers, but awareness that this set even exists is very low.

Why is D&D stuff selling so well?
Very simple: awareness is very high.
Cross-selling is very important and the D&D marketing is very good nowadays.
There is cross-selling with "Stranger Things", "Magic the Gathering" & lots of other stuff.
Twitch is a very hip marketing tool and it has hightened awareness for the brand among younger people to a new level.

Pathfinder has sadly fallen behind, even though it is the superior product in my opinion.

Why is that?
Brand recognition!

Now D&D has been around for over 40 years & had a cartoon series and three movies (two of which were bad) & Pathfinder has been around for about 10 years and hasn't reached the same level of recognition.

Personally, i want Pathfinder to be bigger than D&D, because the products & the people behind them are great.

But if Pathfinder is to survive and thrive the next 10 years, the awareness has to increase.

And having a (superior to D&D) miniatures product to go with the launch of the new Second Edition is absolutely necessary!

Not advertising these, because they are are a licensed product (which Paizo is getting paid for by Wizkids) is a step in the wrong direction.

Paizo has argueably made some questionable decisions lately, even though fans have warned them about them and it backfired.
I want to warn Paizo about not making the same mistake with the minis line.
These have to be previewed MUCH EARLIER and the product pages have to be created much earlier too, or the product will sell very poorly.
That will hurt brand recognition & x-selling and that will hurt the entire Pathfinder brand and by extention Paizo as a company imo.

I really want to support Paizo & ordered all initial Second Edition stuff, even though i really didn't like the Playtest and don't know what to expect of 2E.
I also ordered two bricks of Legendary Adventures, but i also don't know what to expect there.

I am not going to do that in the future.
Thank you for your time.

Silver Crusade

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I'm pretty sure Paizo would want nothing more than to showcase the minis earlier and more often so they can have more buyers for them.

But when it comes to their actual flagship product vs a licensed product, there's no contest between what gets showcased first.

Silver Crusade

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Rysky wrote:

I'm pretty sure Paizo would want nothing more than to showcase the minis earlier and more often so they can have more buyers for them.

But when it comes to their actual flagship product vs a licensed product, there's no contest between what gets showcased first.

Especially when the flagship product is undergoing an edition change. I'd much rather read blog posts about the new rules and setting changes than about the minis

Dark Archive

Cori Marie wrote:
Rysky wrote:

I'm pretty sure Paizo would want nothing more than to showcase the minis earlier and more often so they can have more buyers for them.

But when it comes to their actual flagship product vs a licensed product, there's no contest between what gets showcased first.

Especially when the flagship product is undergoing an edition change. I'd much rather read blog posts about the new rules and setting changes than about the minis

That is true beyond the shadow of a doubt and wasn't questioned by me.

The thing is:

-there are no product pages for minis coming out on august 7th & in september.

-the renders have been around since february 7th, so these could have been shown long ago, even before the Second Edition blogs started.
Wizkids has already shown not only renders, but pictures of the ACTUAL minis from both the D&D line and their own for products going forward as far as november 2019!
Pathfinder Battles is falling behind.

-A Core Rulebook is only $60, a minis case is $500 plus $100 for the case incentive - 10 times the money.
As Fumarole said, you have to plan for that kind of money.

-People preorder Paizo books because of the known quality and through product pages which give them a rough description months before the product is in stores.
Minis collectors won't blind-order an entire case if they don't know what's in it and if there is no product page to do so.

-I can't stress enough the importance of cross-marketing:
People playing D&D 5 have 13 sets of minis made for that edition to choose from, people who want to play Pathfinder Second Edition have ZERO so far.

The minis are going through an edition change as well, Kobolds & Hobgoblins look totally different in SE and a lot of creatures have different names.

I hope "Legendary Adventures" will sell well, but the circumstances (price & lack of advertising) speak against it.
There are also no pawns announced yet for SE, so people who want to play that have no representation for their characters and foes.
There are minis announced for both (Iconic Heroes Evolved & Legendary Adventures), but no way to order these from Paizo or Wizkids.
Only online-stores offer them so far.

If i were to try a new rpg with 3D battles, i'd choose the one that offers ways to represent them.

Silver Crusade

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A Core Rulebook is required to play. Minis are not. There are also pawns or paper minis. There's imagination (the first campaign I ever finished used zero miniatures, and we did just fine). 100% of a Core Rulebook's $60 goes to Paizo, while not all of the mini sales do. The rulebooks are absolutely more important to the business than the minis, and with the edition change, they are going to take priority.

Pawns and minis are also largely rules agnostic, in that they can be used for a multitude of systems. My Bestiary box will still work as I move to second edition.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Cori Marie wrote:
I'd much rather read blog posts about the new rules and setting changes than about the minis

that’s a false dichotomy

the blogs page shows me the last 4 entries, yesterday we had 3 new blogposts, thursday none.
it’s no problem to have two entries on a day without burying a day old entry.

and if those had started early enough to show the set with only 3 or 4 minis per post, the blog would have been short enough not to monopolize on attention too much.

the longer the wait worse it gets, worst case is a single info dump on the last day.

Dark Archive

Cori Marie wrote:

A Core Rulebook is required to play. Minis are not. There are also pawns or paper minis. There's imagination (the first campaign I ever finished used zero miniatures, and we did just fine). 100% of a Core Rulebook's $60 goes to Paizo, while not all of the mini sales do. The rulebooks are absolutely more important to the business than the minis, and with the edition change, they are going to take priority.

Pawns and minis are also largely rules agnostic, in that they can be used for a multitude of systems. My Bestiary box will still work as I move to second edition.

This answer shows me that you don't get it at all.

I said i know that the CRB is more important.
I played years without minis back in the 80s, that is not how it's done today and Pathfinder is not playable without.
Not every player has & needs a CRB (that's what "Player Handbooks" are for), but every player needs a character mini.

But i already made my points and don't want to argue anymore.

Pathfinder Battles are in a rough spot now imo & it is not going to get better in the forseeable future as it seems.

Silver Crusade

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DropBearHunter wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:
I'd much rather read blog posts about the new rules and setting changes than about the minis

that’s a false dichotomy

the blogs page shows me the last 4 entries, yesterday we had 3 new blogposts, thursday none.
it’s no problem to have two entries on a day without burying a day old entry.

and if those had started early enough to show the set with only 3 or 4 minis per post, the blog would have been short enough not to monopolize on attention too much.

the longer the wait worse it gets, worst case is a single info dump on the last day.

I don't see it as a false dichotomy at all. The people that would have to write the blog posts do have other jobs to do as well, and again, the new core books are a much higher priority to feature. I'm not sure what you're looking at, but there have been blog posts every day.

Marco Massoudi wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:

A Core Rulebook is required to play. Minis are not. There are also pawns or paper minis. There's imagination (the first campaign I ever finished used zero miniatures, and we did just fine). 100% of a Core Rulebook's $60 goes to Paizo, while not all of the mini sales do. The rulebooks are absolutely more important to the business than the minis, and with the edition change, they are going to take priority.

Pawns and minis are also largely rules agnostic, in that they can be used for a multitude of systems. My Bestiary box will still work as I move to second edition.

This answer shows me that you don't get it at all.

I said i know that the CRB is more important.
I played years without minis back in the 80s, that is not how it's done today and Pathfinder is not playable without.
Not every player has & needs a CRB (that's what "Player Handbooks" are for), but every player needs a character mini.

But i already made my points and don't want to argue anymore.

Pathfinder Battles are in a rough spot now imo & it is not going to get better in the forseeable future as it seems.

I absolutely get that minis are super important for you. I do. But for many of us we'd rather see new information about the new edition. In Pathfinder every player does need access to the Core Rulebook,because there is no separate Player's Handbook like in DND. Whether that's a copy of their own, or using someone else's, you can't build a character without one. And again, minis are not required. Other options include Pawns, Tokens, paper minis, or just using a dry erase board. I'd also like to reiterate that minis and pawns are largely edition agnostic. Any mini or pawn you already own is still usable. Nobody is going to slap your hand and say "That's a first edition mini!"

Scarab Sages

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Cori Marie wrote:
I don't see it as a false dichotomy at all. The people that would have to write the blog posts do have other jobs to do as well

It's not "people" writing the mini blogs, it's Mark. Has he been writing these other blogs being posted? He usually has his name at the bottom of his posts, and I haven't seen that in any of the recent blogs posts. He's likely busy with other things, but I don't think the reason you provided has anything to do with this issue.

Cori Marie wrote:
I absolutely get that minis are super important for you. I do. But for many of us we'd rather see new information about the new edition. In Pathfinder every player does need access to the Core Rulebook,because there is no separate Player's Handbook like in DND. Whether that's a copy of their own, or using someone else's, you can't build a character without one. And again, minis are not required. Other options include Pawns, Tokens, paper minis, or just using a dry erase board. I'd also like to reiterate that minis and pawns are largely edition agnostic. Any mini or pawn you already own is still usable. Nobody is going to slap your hand and say "That's a first edition mini!"

We get that there is high interest in PF2 and the new rulebook as people decide whether to invest the money in getting the new book. However, we are concerned with buying a product that costs around TEN times the price of that book. I'd wager most of us don't wish to spend that amount of money blindly (via our subscription) without knowing what's going to be in the set. Is that being unreasonable?

We all understand there is an enormous effort around the PF2 launch. We just want to make sure the PF Battles communication doesn't get lost in all of the chaos.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Cori Marie wrote:
I'm not sure what you're looking at, but there have been blog posts every day

well that nice for you.**

I and others on the other hand come here every Monday and get ... nothing.
For months.
Just so that people, like you, don’t have to make the mental effort of ignoring a post a week apparently.

So please excuse us while we are venting our frustration a little bit.
I‘m not going to pay a therapist for that, when I can just politely poke the management right here :-)
Your attitude of „but I want 5 not 4 blogposts a week“ is not helping btw.

** I get the dates from the front page where the entries are listed as „Thursday 05:00pm“
„Thursday 2:00pm“ „Thursday 11:00am“ & „Wednesday 05:30pm“

Silver Crusade

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davrion wrote:
Cori Marie wrote:
I don't see it as a false dichotomy at all. The people that would have to write the blog posts do have other jobs to do as well

It's not "people" writing the mini blogs, it's Mark. Has he been writing these other blogs being posted? He usually has his name at the bottom of his posts, and I haven't seen that in any of the recent blogs posts. He's likely busy with other things, but I don't think the reason you provided has anything to do with this issue.

Cori Marie wrote:
I absolutely get that minis are super important for you. I do. But for many of us we'd rather see new information about the new edition. In Pathfinder every player does need access to the Core Rulebook,because there is no separate Player's Handbook like in DND. Whether that's a copy of their own, or using someone else's, you can't build a character without one. And again, minis are not required. Other options include Pawns, Tokens, paper minis, or just using a dry erase board. I'd also like to reiterate that minis and pawns are largely edition agnostic. Any mini or pawn you already own is still usable. Nobody is going to slap your hand and say "That's a first edition mini!"

We get that there is high interest in PF2 and the new rulebook as people decide whether to invest the money in getting the new book. However, we are concerned with buying a product that costs around TEN times the price of that book. I'd wager most of us don't wish to spend that amount of money blindly (via our subscription) without knowing what's going to be in the set. Is that being unreasonable?

We all understand there is an enormous effort around the PF2 launch. We just want to make sure the PF Battles communication doesn't get lost in all of the chaos.

Contrary to popular belief, Mark is indeed a person, and does indeed have other duties in the company than just writing blog posts. My point is mostly that if a release of the mini's lines does less than expected sales, it's not going to ruin the company as a whole. If the rulebook relaunch does less than expected, that's it, no more books, and no more minis.

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