Pathfinder Playtest Preorder Update

I posted this in a separate thread, but as it seems that this is the main one for discussion now:
"It was recommended to me that I order my Playtest material through Paizo to ensure I get it on time, as Amazon might have delays, despite the list price being slightly higher. I did this, and now I've found out that my shipment (fulfilled by Amazon) is being delayed, while a friend who ordered through Amazon directly is getting theirs on time..."

The update on expected delivery makes me more comfortable here and maybe suggests Amazon was just lumping all these orders together. While the $15 store credit is nice, a direct shipping refund probably would have been more appreciated by me at least, but they're fairly comparable.

A day late (for me) isn't the worst thing, but I know there are a lot of people out there planning to start Playtesting right away, and PDFs may be a good substitute, but they're hard to work from.

Thank you, Paizo, for the quick response to this in general.

Yeah, this is disappointing. I hate reading from screens, and delivery to New Zealand is usually slow (often about 3 weeks for my subscription orders), so I'll need to delay my plans to run the playtest adventure. Not much can be done, though, and the fault is not with Paizo.

I posted this in the update thread:

While I still don't have a good idea of how long it's going to take, fulfillment has been speeding up; they're quickly approaching 15 percent shipped.

I don't have a good way at this time to look at orders in aggregate, but I can manually examine individual orders once they've shipped. Just to give you some idea of the timelines, I looked at 5 US and 5 international orders that shipped in the last few hours. All 5 of the US orders have expected delivery on August 3. International is (unsurprisingly) much more variable:

Destination: Japan. Expected delivery: August 7.
Destination: Italy. Expected delivery: August 3.
Destination: British Columbia. Expected delivery: August 8.
Destination: New Zealand. Expected delivery: August 13.
Destination: Sweden. Expected delivery: August 7.

Okay, that looks *much* better than I expected. If they manage to deliver books to Italy in two days (which means they use air shipping, probably really express shipping), then there's a good chance other European customers and I will get the books next week at the latest. I had priorly assumed that the shipping speed would be the same as with AP modules sent out by Paizo.

I appreciate the update and the $15. I've been eagerly awaiting these books since that weird "11-20 days" email, but I can wait a few more days.

Very disappointed. I'll be away from Friday through Sunday, so was hoping I'd have the books Thursday for my trip. Good thing I had the post office hold my mail so it's not just sitting on the doorstep getting wet from the rain that's predicted.

The shipping cost was outrageous to begin with for standard delivery and no tracking, so I hope you and Amazon make good on refunding that cost.

The fact that the folks who order directly through Amazon, or their local store, will get their books before those who supported you directly is maddening. What exactly are we getting for paying list price and excessive shipping?

Sorry to be upset, but I do feel you guys should be aware of how I feel, and how I will think twice before doing this again.

-HM

... now I've found out that my shipment (fulfilled by Amazon) is being delayed, while a friend who ordered through Amazon directly is getting theirs on time..."

The update on expected delivery makes me more comfortable here and maybe suggests Amazon was just lumping all these orders together.

Amazon's own sales are from their own inventories; the inventory Paizo provided to them for fulfilling our preorders is entirely separate, handled through a separate business division. While I'm sure that parcels of both types are shipping out of the same distribution centers, I would expect that the processes that get them both to that point are fairly distinct, and have very little bearing on one another.

I posted this in the update thread:

While I still don't have a good idea of how long it's going to take, fulfillment has been speeding up; they're quickly approaching 15 percent shipped.

I don't have a good way at this time to look at orders in aggregate, but I can manually examine individual orders once they've shipped. Just to give you some idea of the timelines, I looked at 5 US and 5 international orders that shipped in the last few hours. All 5 of the US orders have expected delivery on August 3. International is (unsurprisingly) much more variable:

Destination: Japan. Expected delivery: August 7.
Destination: Italy. Expected delivery: August 3.
Destination: British Columbia. Expected delivery: August 8.
Destination: New Zealand. Expected delivery: August 13.
Destination: Sweden. Expected delivery: August 7.

Thanks a ton for keeping us apprised, Vic!

Paizo can say it’s not their fault all day long and I don’t care. We ordered through Paizo (even though they chose to fulfill through Amazon) — its Paizo’s job to ensure it happens.

As a military retiree, I wasn’t left off the hook because I got someone else assigned to a task — i was still ultimately responsible. We paid Paizo — they are ultimately responsible — any fault by Amazon (or anyone else) is STILL Paizo’s fault

MC1 Donald P. Rule, USN (Ret)
Retired U.S. Navy Journalist / Public Affairs Specialist

Paizo can say it’s not their fault all day long and I don’t care. We ordered through Paizo (even though they chose to fulfill through Amazon) — its Paizo’s job to ensure it happens.

As a military retiree, I wasn’t left off the hook because I got someone else assigned to a task — i was still ultimately responsible. We paid Paizo — they are ultimately responsible — any fault by Amazon (or anyone else) is STILL Paizo’s fault

MC1 Donald P. Rule, USN (Ret)
Retired U.S. Navy Journalist / Public Affairs Specialist

Yes, sir. And that's why we're going be providing affected customers $15 in paizo.com store credit (in addition to anything Amazon may do).

I knew this would happen, on Amazon it says the book is released on Aug 2, meaning they will start shipping it, meaning we will get it 1-2 days later. So Monday, maybe Friday if I’m lucky.

For paying customers, your target date should have been 1-2 days earlier. If things went as planned, your paying customers would have gotten their product a day early. If things didn’t go as planned, at the same time.

Honestly, I’m not sure why you value your customers who want stuff for free the same as customers who are paying $90+ for your product. In my line of business, we treat our elite customers better than this. They’re the ones that pay our salaries. This is the underlying problem.

While I appreciate the $15 refund, I’m not happy. Sorry, no kudos from me.

So, wait, even pre-orders which are destined overseas (i.e. Europe and so on) have only started shipping on July 28th? That makes it basically impossible that they will arrive earlier than mid-August, given every past experience I've had with overseas shipping. :-/

Yeah, ordering from Finland this update is really reaaaallly bumming me out. I fully expected to get this book very close to release date if not on the release date. Really would like to just get refund than store credits :C

Though it has always been clear Paizo values their customers etc.

What would you guys suggest paizo do? Send employees to Amazon fulfillment centers and do the work themselves? Amazon is world renowned for their super fast and reliable shipping. Paizo picked the best choice. They picked the same choice anyone in their shoes with the same options would have made.

I mean seriously, they can only do so much. And they are being awesome enough to try and make it up out of their own pockets.
Book binding and publishing isn't as cheap as you might think, even in volume.

Paizo has done what they can to fix SOMEONE ELSE's problem, even more so, they owned up that the mistake happened as soon as they knew, and let us all know. They didn't try and 'church' it up. They told us the facts and are being super transparent with us. What other company would do that?

Well, I hope you guys get some money back from Amazon for them not living up to their end of the contract.

For paying customers, your target date should have been 1-2 days earlier.

You did notice that Amazon started shipping those orders on July 28, right?

Paizo did exactly what you suggested, and Amazon still messed up.

I knew this would happen, on Amazon it says the book is released on Aug 2, meaning they will start shipping it, meaning we will get it 1-2 days later.

That's not how release dates work. Online retailers (including amazon.com and paizo.com) generally ship prior to the release date with a goal of orders arriving as close to the release date as possible.

Honestly, I’m not sure why you value your customers who want stuff for free the same as customers who are paying $90+ for your product. In my line of business, we treat our elite customers better than this. They’re the ones that pay our salaries. This is the underlying problem.

"Our customers" are not just those who have ordered from paizo.com. We also have customers who have ordered from local game and book stores, customers who buy from internet retailers like amazon.com, and customers who are lining up to buy the playtest at Gen Con in just a handful of hours. Setting a street date and asking all of these outlets to respect it—including ourselves—is the only way to treat ALL of our customers fairly. (But while we're at it, no, we don't think any less of the customers who are just getting the free PDF.)

I'll be impressed if my NZ order arrives on or around 13 August as mentioned by Vic, if shipped just now! That's expedited shipping speed, normally 100USD! Expedited to NZ says 2-3 days, but it never is always closer to a week - don't trust those Amazon estimates IME.

But I was happy with the cost of the shipping when I ordered, very reasonable. And I don't feel I'm getting the books 'late' anything in Aug is actually within Paizo's shipping estimate when I was ordering - 11 to 40 BUSINESS days. I ordered not expecting it to be shipped early to make release date, that was mentioned much later, so I'm fine with what Paizo has done. And I get $15 bonus.

Living on the other side of the Pacific makes one very chilled about delays, C'est La Vie, not worth getting wound up over. Life's to short to stress the small stuff etc. I'd be dead of a heart attack if I got riled after every shipping to NZ delay :-)

Thanks for keeping us in the loop Paizo, and I feel for you being on the receiving end of negativity from Amazon's error.

Paizo did exactly what you suggested, and Amazon still messed up.

Except that, "shockingly," orders that were placed through amazon.com directly will be delivered as expected. Somehow Amazon didn't mess those orders up...

-HM

CrystalSeas wrote:

Paizo did exactly what you suggested, and Amazon still messed up.

Except that, "shockingly," orders that were placed through amazon.com directly will be delivered as expected. Somehow Amazon didn't mess those orders up...

-HM

Well, that would be because amazon has completely different departments for shipping things ordered through amazon vs things amazon is just fulfilling. One department messed up, the other didn't.....

sojudramaqueen wrote:

Vic,

When you say 6 order shipped, I was thinking "shipments". Did you mean individual orders? Like they had just barely begun shipping anything at all? Oh dear.

Correct—they completed 6 individual customer orders from July 28–31.

Wow, that didn't work as intended.

I posted this in the update thread:

While I still don't have a good idea of how long it's going to take, fulfillment has been speeding up; they're quickly approaching 15 percent shipped.

I don't have a good way at this time to look at orders in aggregate, but I can manually examine individual orders once they've shipped. Just to give you some idea of the timelines, I looked at 5 US and 5 international orders that shipped in the last few hours. All 5 of the US orders have expected delivery on August 3. International is (unsurprisingly) much more variable:

Destination: Japan. Expected delivery: August 7.
Destination: Italy. Expected delivery: August 3.
Destination: British Columbia. Expected delivery: August 8.
Destination: New Zealand. Expected delivery: August 13.
Destination: Sweden. Expected delivery: August 7.

Thank you for the update, Vic!

I know you are probably very busy, but any chance you could give an expected delivery to Brazil (if possible, of course)?

Cheers

Well, that would be because amazon has completely different departments for shipping things ordered through amazon vs things amazon is just fulfilling. One department messed up, the other didn't.....

Of course. But it's so frustrating when I debated whether I should order from Amazon, which would've been much cheaper and free ship. But I went with Paizo to show my support...and look where we are.

I realize this won't matter in a week or so when my books are here, but again, I have to wonder exactly what did I spend all that extra money for to have such lackluster service?

-HM

I have to wonder exactly what did I spend all that extra money for to have such lackluster service?

Because you, like Paizo, expected that the service would be excellent?

And you, like Paizo, have been severely disappointed by how Amazon handled this?

Thanks for the update.

I got a message from DHL today saying that the package had left the warehouse, and there was some estimated tracking information saying likely delivery is estimated at Tuesday 7th of August. I'll have the PDF in the meantime :)

I do hope Amazon reimburses Paizo (and your customers) for their botched job though.

Vic,

What surprised me was the poor lead up to the digital release.
No countdown timer.
No ability to pre-order the PDF
Heck no announcement on exactly when you could download it. I woke up at midnight eastern in hopes it would be available.

Anyway enough grousing on my end. Just some suggestions for the next release.

Rich.

Thank you for being prompt and updating us as soon as you discovered the problem. I appreciate being informed of the issue and I doubly appreciate the credit, since this issue isn't something you could be held at fault for.

I will try to download the PDF in the meantime and hope that my copy is one of the ones coming in on the 3rd. Fingers crossed.

Heck no announcement on exactly when you could download it. I woke up at midnight eastern in hopes it would be available.

Vic announced a week ago, on July 26, that it would be available for download at 9 am EDT on Thursday.

I'm curious what being able to pre-order the PDF would have done? It's still a free download, not available until a specific time.

Wow. Sounds like Amazon really dropped the ball on this. Paizo's customer service is as commendable as always, though.

I just hope your website can handle all the traffic you're about to get. Best of luck to the tech staff.

so I'm thinking with this news, there is going to be more pressure on the paizo website to download the pdf. so I say this in the best tone I can muster that makes me not a problem customer...

is there anyone at paizo organizing extra mirroring of the pdf?

I'm not telling anyone at paizo how to run you business or anything, just thinking it would be good to avoid the double disaster of not getting the book(soon-ish), and not being able to download the pdf.

P.S. is there any eta on Australia?

You did notice that Amazon started shipping those orders on July 28, right?

Paizo did exactly what you suggested, and Amazon still messed up.

Ummm... no. If it shipped on July 28, it would have arrived on Monday. I've had orders I've done at night come the next day, for free.

"Our customers" are not just those who have ordered from paizo.com. We also have customers who have ordered from local game and book stores

Who got it as much as a week early, the latest will get it on time.

Customers who buy from internet retailers like amazon.com, and customers who are lining up to buy the playtest at Gen Con in just a handful of hours.

Who will get it on time.

But while we're at it, no, we don't think any less of the customers who are just getting the free PDF.

I didn't say that. I said there should be some benefit to paying, instead it's not even going to be on time.

It is what it is.

Vic,

What surprised me was the poor lead up to the digital release.
No countdown timer.
No ability to pre-order the PDF
Heck no announcement on exactly when you could download it. I woke up at midnight eastern in hopes it would be available.

Anyway enough grousing on my end. Just some suggestions for the next release.

Rich.

They announced and said multiple times that the PDF's would be available at 9AM US Eastern Time.

You don't have a location listed that I can find so no idea what time that is in your area.

Ummm... no. If it shipped on July 28, it would have arrived on Monday. I've had orders I've done at night come the next day, for free.

Amazon started shipping the orders on July 28. They did not finish the job in a timely manner. If yours was one of the few they shipped on that date you would have gotten it on time.

So far, they have only shipped a small percentage of the books that they have on hand, which they picked up directly from the printer. Something has kept them from finishing the job they started.

Again, there is nothing that has happened that Paizo could have prevented. Nothing they could have done any differently so that there would be a different outcome.

Amazon dropped the ball. Paizo customers are disappointed. Paizo is giving us all a $15 credit for something they had no control over.

What more do you want them to do?

I just want to know one thing, why did this happen?

I am a patient man, and I can wait for my physical copy of the playtest to arrive, but I want to know the details why and how this happened, all of them.

-Charmmaster, Slayer of Red Tape.

Also greats Diplomacy rolls between Paizo and it's insane customer base. Ta for the info.

My playtest core rulebook and doomsday dawn has shipped and is in my city, so I should get those tomorrow, but the maps still have yet to ship so idk when I'll get those.

I'm surprised people are surprised about this. From the moment I heard them say they were shipping them early to get them to everyone on time I instantly was 95% certain that wouldnt work. And I accepted that, because the sound of it is kinda crazy. I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but knew it wouldnt work. And if it did, Yay! but I wasn't expecting it-delays happen.

The thing that DOES bug me though is to hear those who ordered directly through Amazon are already getting their books. They're taking care of their customers first, from what it sounds like.

Im very curious how the Australian orders are being fulfilled. Amazon US doesnt deal with Australia since we started putting GST on all packages, in fact all reference to Australia has been removed from the US site. Australians MUST operate through amazon australia. So are we gett8ng our orders through the US at the standard 18-36 day shipping - anything up to the end of September!! Or are Australians getting it via Australian centres?

On a different note i oredered a second copy through bookdepository (an amazon subsidiary now i believe?) and thats on its way to me, due to arrive any time now, shipped last week around the 24th or so to reach me by release date.

So I got the email about Amazon shipping. Funny. I got an email back on July 13th that said this

Shipping Method Amazon Standard Delivery
Package Tracking Shipped Fri, Jul 13, 2018 (package 1110509)
Not trackable

SO... Who is telling the truth.

Still not gotten mine so Paizo jumped the gun?

I also got an email from Amazon, saying that the books had shipped (July 16th, in my case).

At this point, I think Paizo should press Amazon for free expedited shipping.

I appreciate Paizo stepping up and keeping us updated, but I expected much better from Amazon.....

IceniQueen wrote:

So I got the email about Amazon shipping. Funny. I got an email back on July 13th that said this

Shipping Method Amazon Standard Delivery
Package Tracking Shipped Fri, Jul 13, 2018 (package 1110509)
Not trackable

SO... Who is telling the truth.

Still not gotten mine so Paizo jumped the gun?

I also got an email from Amazon, saying that the books had shipped (July 16th, in my case).

At this point, I think Paizo should press Amazon for free expedited shipping.

I appreciate Paizo stepping up and keeping us updated, but I expected much better from Amazon.....

I also received that email. So I believe either A: Someone at Amazon lied, or B: Someone at Amazon seriously screwed up.

Either way, I agree that Paizo should try to get recompensed for this huge disruption of their business.

The overseas deliveries have not even shipped yet despite first notifications given in the first half or July, and we are either looking at "9-36 business days in transit" or hoping that Amazon is going to expedite things? I'm not holding my breath on the latter.

I am also not certain if I understood correctly. Was there an option to order the books via Amazon directly, and did those books ship on schedule? Because that smells like "nice little shop you have there, it would be a shame if anyone ordering through it instead of us would get their stuff weeks later" from Amazon's part.

CrystalSeas wrote:

You did notice that Amazon started shipping those orders on July 28, right?

Paizo did exactly what you suggested, and Amazon still messed up.

Ummm... no. If it shipped on July 28, it would have arrived on Monday. I've had orders I've done at night come the next day, for free.

Well that also depens where you live. For Finland the estimated delivery time is 9 to 36 days and if the friggin book is just starting to get shipped it can be well over september, what a load of bull crap.

And no matter what everyone says, in the end pre-orders should always arrive one day early, on release day or absolute worst case scenario one day late. Theres no buts in that.
And honestly if in the worst case scenario the book is delayed over september I might not even had pre-ordered the book.

Edit* and to top it off, shipping fees are kinda high from paizo to Finland last I remember, Im not 100% certain for this nowdays so 15$ doesnt really do much for me in store credits, I can by pdfs but as we have established I really do not enjoy reading from a screen.

RABBLE!!! RABBLE!!!

I've already sacrificed a few postal workers to my cats for not getting it here early and now I'm going to have to wait even longer???!!!

Okay.

I will survive with just the PDF. The world will not end. The sun will still rise in the east and set in the west.

Thank you for being up front and letting us know as soon as possible. You did you level best by acknowledging that you needed outside help in the first place and going to the one company who should have been able to handle this without breaking a sweat. I appreciate you keeping us updated and I look forward to devouring the book once it gets here.

I'll use my credit to grab some of the 1E PDFs that I've been holding off on so there's that!

I'm not sure what to do about those poor postal workers though...

SM

Whether you get your hardcopy on time or not, all of the pdfs are available for download at 6am pacific time, so you can still get going on your new campaign. The fact that paizo even considered a $15 store credit proves that they sincerely care about their customer base. Nice job paizo. I'm am so pumped I can't even sleep right now!!!!!!

I'm giving Paizo many props for keeping us informed as to this situation.
I had preordered my books through Paizo as well, and I am extremely disappointed as to how Amazon is doing this. SIX orders in two days is ludicrous.
As long as I can at least download the PDFs without the site exploding at 9am I'll be content for now. Hopefully the physical books will be in my hands sooner than later.

Good job for Paizo for trying to make things right.

*offers hugs to the Paizo employees*

I'm able to keep my temper with Paizo, probably because I took the gamble of not getting the books by ordering direct from Amazon. So I am making out perfectly, receiving my order tomorrow, on time and cheaper than what it would have been with Paizo.

I'm understanding everyone's frustration with events, and doing my best to not lose my temper at the venting of those frustrations. Probably best I leave it at this, that I agree with your anger, if not your expression of it.

*offers hugs to the Paizo employees*

Yeah, I'm not sure if Vic is going to GenCon, but I was thinking if someone sees him there he could probably use a hug. Or a beer. Or a bottle of antacids and some headache meds.

Well, that sucks. I’m not going to complain for now because the PDFs are on the way, but we already know how terrible that PDF release will be especially since physical orders are screwed up. I hope that maintenance of yours yesterday was to build a back up for the back up server, cause you’re gonna need it.

Maybe it would be wise to release the pdfs a tad earlier since everyone will try at 6am PST, if you release it say 30 mins before some very dedicated people will already have theirs and it will unclog the servers. Well, you know better than me. Or maybe not given what just happened!

*hoists the black flag*
*shivers himself some timbers*
*drinks all the rum so it's gone*
COMMENCING PIRRRRRATE RAID ON NEARBY AMAZON DISTRIBUTION CENTRE

*hoists the black flag*

*shivers himself some timbers*
*drinks all the rum so it's gone*
COMMENCING PIRRRRRATE RAID ON NEARBY AMAZON DISTRIBUTION CENTRE

You can teach an Alexa to say "Pieces of eight!" randomly.