Ranger Class Preview

Monday, July 2, 2018

Rangers have a long tradition in heroic adventure. Whether they're portrayed as lone striders keeping the edges of the wilderness free of the threats that lurch forth from the world's shadows, as hunters tracking down fugitives or beasts, or as skilled archers serving as a scouting force for a local lord or group of village elders, rangers have a special place in our fantastical imagination.

For the Pathfinder Playtest, we decided to cleave closer to the core principles of the ranger—a rough and tumble warrior in the wild, possibly of the wild himself. Because of this, the most significant change we made to the class was that it no longer has spellcasting ability, at least as a default. Of course, this doesn't mean we have to abandon this aspect of the Pathfinder First Edition ranger forever. Because of the way classes are now structured, it would be easy to create a spellcasting build of the ranger later using Spell Points (like the paladin), but for the Playtest, we are trying out a a spell-less ranger.

But enough of what the ranger doesn't have. Let's take a look at what he does.

Ranger Features

First and foremost, the ranger is a hunter. In Pathfinder First Edition, you picked creature types or subtypes that you were skilled at hunting. There are few things more frustrating than playing a ranger who rarely—or worst of all, never—encounters their favored enemies. It also led to some players who tended to play in more human-centric campaigns picking the human subtype, even if their backgrounds may have pointed to better choices for favored enemies.

This time we made the ranger hunting ability a bit more flexible, based on some popular ideas from the guide archetype and the slayer's studied target. At 1st level, rangers gain the Hunt Target feature.

[[A]] Hunt Target

Ranger

Requirements You can see or hear the target.

You designate a single creature within 100 feet as your target and focus your attacks against that creature. While hunting that creature, you gain benefits for focusing your attacks. As long as all your attacks in a round are against the target you're hunting, the multiple attack penalty you take on the second attack is -4 (-3 with an agile weapon) instead of -5, and -8 (-6 with an agile weapon) instead of -10 on the third and any further attacks in the round. You also ignore the penalty for making ranged attacks against the target you're hunting within your second range increment. You also gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Perception checks when you Seek your target and a +2 circumstance bonus to Survival checks when you Track your target.

You can have only one creature designated as the target of your hunt at a time. If you use Hunt Target against a creature when you already have a creature designated, the prior creature loses the designation and the new target gains the designation. In any case, this designation lasts until your next daily preparation.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

There are many class feats and some higher-level abilities that augment the ranger's Hunt Target. For example, at 17th level, the masterful hunter feature decreases the ranger's multiple attack penalty to -3 (or -2 with agile weapon) with his second attack and -6 (or -4 with agile weapons) on his third or further attack, and he can ignore the penalty against the target of his hunt in the second or third range increment, assuming that he has at least master proficiency in the weapon he is. Speaking of which, like the fighter, the ranger gains weapon mastery for a group of weapons, though he gains it at 13th level instead of at 3rd level like the fighter. At 19th level, the ranger gains the swift target feature, which allows him to use Hunt Target as a free action triggered before he makes his first Strike each round, so he's never without a target to hunt! The specifics of the Hunt Target ability make the ranger excel at a variety of combat styles, especially his traditional two-weapon fighting (since you can decrease the multiple attack penalty with agile attacks to be incredibly small) and archery (since you eliminate some of the most common ranged increment penalties). Of course, a ranger with a less traditional style, like a greatsword with a reduced multiple attack penalty, works great too!

Other class features allow the ranger to stalk and avoid his foes. At 5th level, he gains trackless step. At 7th level, he gains evasion (followed by improved evasion at 15th level). He gains nature's edge at 9th level, which allows him to treat enemies in natural difficult terrain or in difficult terrain resulting from a snare (more on snares later!) as flat-footed. Come 11th level, he gains the wild stride feature, which allows him to ignore or minimize the effects of difficult terrain.

Ranger Feats

Class feats, of course, determine the flavor of individuals within a class, and the ranger is no different. Specific ranger feats allow him to gain an animal companion at the same progression as a druid's, though potentially with special benefits that only a ranger can obtain. Other feats will enable him to further focus on his weapon choice, including a whole string of feats that allow him to specialize in two-weapon fighting.

Some fun feats allow the ranger to use his knowledge and senses to aid his allies as well as himself. Here are a couple of my favorites.

Monster Hunter Feat 1

Ranger

When you critically succeed to identify a target you're hunting with Recall Knowledge, you (and your allies, if you tell them) gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your next attack roll against it, but not against other creatures of that species. The creature is bolstered.

[[F]] Scout's Warning Feat 4

Ranger

Trigger You are about to roll Perception for initiative.

You audibly or visually warn your allies of danger, granting them a +1 circumstance bonus to their initiative rolls.

Harkening back to the hunter's bond class feature in Pathfinder First Edition, these feats allow the ranger to support the rest of the group with increased flexibility in how he chooses to do so, and these are just a few. The ranger can expand on Monster Hunter to grant even more benefits with a successful Recall Knowledge and even share the benefits of Hunt Target with other PCs (pretty much any martial class will love this benefit). And while flanking-savvy fighters might be a rogue's traditional best friend, the 12th-level Distracting Shot feat allows the ranger who hits a target with two ranged attacks in the same turn to leave that critter flat-footed until the start of the ranger's next turn. This helps fast rogues bring the pain quickly and farther away from more heavily armored support.

Another group of feats allows you to create snares. (Told you I'd get to that!)

Snares

Like alchemy, the ability to create snares is granted by a general feat (Snare Crafting). And like alchemists, rangers have the potential to lift general snare crafting to greater heights.

What are snares? Well, they're small portable hazards, very similar to traps, which can be set up in a short period of time (usually 1 minute). While it's unlikely that you will set up a snare in the midst of combat, they are perfect tools to arrange a battleground to your advantage. For instance, remember the nature's edge class feature that allows you to treat enemies in difficult terrain as flat-footed? Here's the most basic snare that creates difficult terrain.

Slowing Snare Snare 1

Consumable, Mechanical, Snare, Trap

Price 2 gp

A square with this snare becomes difficult terrain when the first creature enters it, and then it is destroyed.

Other snares set off alarms, trip, or deal damage to those entering the area of a snare. Grab some alchemical items, and you can deal even more damage with a snare.

Freezing Snare Snare 8

Cold, Consumable, Mechanical, Snare, Trap

Price 50 gp

You set a trio of liquid ice bombs to explode in unison when a creature enters the freezing snare's square. The target must attempt a DC 22 Reflexsave.

Success The target takes 1d8 cold damage.

Critical Success The target is unaffected.

Failure The target takes 3d8 cold damage and is hampered 10 until the end of its next turn.

Critical Failure The target takes 6d8 cold damage and is hampered 10 until the end of its next turn.

Craft Requirements three vials of liquid ice

Ranger feats that deal with snares allow you to learn more of them as your Crafting rank increases, lets you set them up faster (even in the middle of combat), and increases snares' DCs to match your class DC. Always make sure that your allies know where you hid your snares, or no bonus to attack rolls or initiative that you grant them will make up for the damage and humiliation you might cause.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Senior Designer

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Ooh, snares and better iterative attacks! I'm really looking forward to playing this class!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Whoa. No spells? Admittedly the spellcasting wasn't a huge part of the Ranger class anyway, but that's quite the change from Rangers since 1st edition AD&D. On the plus side, it boosts the number of non-magical classes out there by one. I have to wonder just what boost does the Animal Companion provide that Rangers don't just end up a Poor Man's Fighter.

I also wonder if Friday's post will deal with Animal Companions and then next week's post focus on Druids. It would make some sense I suppose....


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah, so Trapper is now the "default" form of the Ranger. Though there's still the "requires setup" problem there, so that's probably not going to get used outside of very specific scenarios.


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So you have to be able to see your target to determine that they are your 'favoured enemy'?
I'm sort of sad that you loose the 'I have been hunting dragons all my life, and I am particularly skilled at spotting evidence of their presence by the slightest signs' flavour as a result. The new version is probably mechanically stronger, but less character defining.


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Interesting. I'm not surprised by much here (though I didn't expect snares, nor that there'd be no spell point options), but I kind of figured that a studied target equivalent, would replace favored enemy, and that animal companions would be a feat chain.

I will say, without knowing exactly how big ranged increments are or how much penalty they impose in 2e, TWF (or at least, agile weapons) seem like the go to with the 2e ranger. Going down to -0/-3/-6, and eventually -0/-2/-4 with iterative attacks seems quite powerful, especially if you can get some form of haste, such that you have a greater chance of making use of that third attack.


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While I can not find fault with any of the new features, the ranger just does not resonate with me like the paladin does. Being spell less is a negative for me. The major positive is the change to favorite enemy. In PFS, you were forced to pick human as your FE.


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Tangent101 wrote:

Whoa. No spells? Admittedly the spellcasting wasn't a huge part of the Ranger class anyway, but that's quite the change from Rangers since 1st edition AD&D. On the plus side, it boosts the number of non-magical classes out there by one. I have to wonder just what boost does the Animal Companion provide that Rangers don't just end up a Poor Man's Fighter.

I also wonder if Friday's post will deal with Animal Companions and then next week's post focus on Druids. It would make some sense I suppose....

Spells are a critical part of a 3e or PF Ranger or Paladin's kit. They're what give those classes their adaptability. They're also major reasons why they were my favorite classes, and ditching them in exchange for trapping and a series of feats that consume one resource to activate is extremely disappointing.


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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I am unreasonably excited about a no-spell ranger being the default. Thank you for that.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Looks like I will continue to play rangers. :)


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Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Huzzah, Rangers no longer need to be serial killers! That’s the main thing I was hoping for. Reducing iterative and ranged penalties is pretty cool.

Didn’t see it mentioned in th blog, but Rangers can still get animal companions.

Shadow Lodge

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Aratrok wrote:
Spells are a critical part of a 3e or PF Ranger or Paladin's kit.

Nah, not seeing it.

Dark Archive

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I will say, without knowing exactly how big ranged increments are or how much penalty they impose in 2e, TWF (or at least, agile weapons) seem like the go to with the 2e ranger. Going down to -0/-3/-6, and eventually -0/-2/-4 with iterative attacks seems quite powerful, especially if you can get some form of haste, such that you have a greater chance of making use of that third attack.

Agreed!


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I don’t think rangers are “hunters” first and foremost. I think they are protecters of regions of wilderness


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Happy for the spell-less option.

I do wish the multiple attack benefit kicked in a little sooner. Many of us will never get to play at 19th level.


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I'm happy the Ranger, by default, is spell-less. Since "preparing spells" is kind of a pointless endeavor when you can cast 4 of them total. A lot of time in my experience Ranger players would just prepare the same spell with all the slots of a given level, which is something we could just replicate with spell points.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Ikos wrote:


I will say, without knowing exactly how big ranged increments are or how much penalty they impose in 2e, TWF (or at least, agile weapons) seem like the go to with the 2e ranger. Going down to -0/-3/-6, and eventually -0/-2/-4 with iterative attacks seems quite powerful, especially if you can get some form of haste, such that you have a greater chance of making use of that third attack.

Agreed!

As you say, -0/-2/-4 is pretty sensational. It means, like you say, your third and hasted fourth attack are at the same penalty as most agile weapons' second attacks. But taking -0/-3/-6 on a bow or two-hander is pretty nice too, and when the -2 range increments do come up, it's really convenient not to have to deal with them. I know my playtest ranger was often protected by the sheer distance she was from the fight, when possible based on the map.


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Paizo Blog wrote:
Whether they're portrayed as lone striders keeping the edges of the wilderness free of the threats that lurch forth from the world's shadows

I see what you did there ;-)


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A very small preview.

So, apparently no spells, might help with giving them other options, and with it being expandable in later installments, just means it's not the base effect. They also must not have anything to preview with Animal Companion synergy until Friday (presumably), so not having even a couple options revealed there is disappointing.

The Hunt Target feature is powerful, and certainly works like Studied Target from Slayer in PF1 (even if modified to reduce iterative penalties). Unfortunately, this means that they can be more consistent offensively than most other martials in the game in terms of raw damage due to this.

Yes, they get feats that let them improve those options and spread them to allies, but isn't that a Bard's main schtick, to buff allies (and debuffs enemies)? Not saying other classes shouldn't get party buffing, but some of the stuff a Ranger grants to allies via Hunt Target is very powerful, perhaps more powerful than what anything a Bard can grant.

Snares seem very underwhelming and very niche in their use, so having it as a base feature isn't that great. They say it might be usable for combat purposes with feats, but without any previews here for the specifics on that, it's just a partially filled map with too much distance in-between to understand how they get there.

Overall, this wasn't a horrible blog post, but it was a little short, didn't have much crunch, and seemed to step on some toes. Passable is about the most adequate word I can use to describe it currently.


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This version of the ranger sounds quite enjoyable. I appreciate that they move away from spells as mandatory.

Paizo Employee Designer

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SnowFever wrote:

Happy for the spell-less option.

I do wish the multiple attack benefit kicked in a little sooner. Many of us will never get to play at 19th level.

You get the initial benefit right away. It's only the doubled benefit with the extremely decreased multiple attack penalty that kicks in at 17th.


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Called it on Favored Enemy being replaced with a variant of Studied Target. Happy to see that! Also the way this is executed is cool, as it basically enables both archery and TWF styles as well as certain other styles, all simultaneously, as long as it's against the hunted target. :) I assume there will probably be later feats to hunt two targets at once, or all targets of a given species at once.

I would like to see the old flavor of Favored Enemy expanded in feats though. Maybe not specifically damage and attack bonuses vs a certain creature type that may rarely or never come up, but rather, thematic abilities that would be excellent against most creatures of a given type. For example, maybe a Ranger who has the equivalent of Favored Enemy Giants does extra damage and gets bonuses on maneuvers against creatures larger than she is.

I was expecting trapper feats, and I was expecting spells to be punted to feats, and I'm happy to see both of those. However, I was expecting to see the Skirmisher folded into the base Ranger, and that doesn't seem to have happened? :/

No Master in weaponry until 13th level?! It can be later than the Fighter, that's fine, but I thought Master stuff was generally supposed to come online by around 7th level. Especially for something key to your class, like weapons for a ranger.

As above with Favored Enemy, I would like some broader flavor of Favored Terrain to come back at some point.

I'm glad the animal companion can be as good as a druid's. A bit odd to see it relegated to feats. I was heavily expecting Hunter's Bond to have a path that granted an animal, another path that helped the party out, and another path that favored fighting as a loner.

That cold snare looks pretty weak for an 8th level ability. 50 gp (500 gp PF1) for a one-shot to do 3d8 or more likely 1d8? (EDIT: Probably even more than 50, since the cost of the three ice bombs is probably on top of that.) Eh. :/

Overall I'm good with the flavor you're going for here, I just fear that like in 5E the Ranger is going to be really weak out the gate except in its one super specialized niche (the studied target) and will need to be fixed later.


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oh yes man i like to see this in action. Congratulation for your great work paizo team.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


Yes, they get feats that let them improve those options and spread them to allies, but isn't that a Bard's main schtick, to buff allies (and debuffs enemies)? Not saying other classes shouldn't get party buffing, but some of the stuff a Ranger grants to allies via Hunt Target is very powerful, perhaps more powerful than what anything a Bard can grant.

Since the ranger's ability is fairly specific to the ranger, it means that a party with both a bard and a ranger focusing on allies can be pretty awesome.


The blog did not give a clue if an elf ranger could become legendary with a bow. Big Legolas fan here.


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After an entire week of controversy it's nice to get a blog post that I think most people can agree on...

Hunt Target is a very good change and makes the Ranger more satisfying in situations that don't involve your specific enemy of choice. I think my main concern is with snares; while traps are cool and flavorful for the class they're really impractical to use as a player since in my experience it's more common to enter an enemy's territory than to defend your own (and if you are defending your own turf, it's in an ambush where you wouldn't get the setup time anyways).

I do really like how the Ranger has stolen the Inquisitor's monster lore niche.


looks pretty good


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Fuzzypaws wrote:
I would like to see the old flavor of Favored Enemy expanded in feats though. Maybe not specifically damage and attack bonuses vs a certain creature type that may rarely or never come up, but rather, thematic abilities that would be excellent against most creatures of a given type. For example, maybe a Ranger who has the equivalent of Favored Enemy Giants does extra damage and gets bonuses on maneuvers against creatures larger than she is.

I'd probably rework that to be "Creatures who are Large, or Larger" rather than "larger than she is" otherwise, I expect that most rangers you see will be Goblins, Halflings, or Gnomes. But otherwise, I'd agree with that idea. I think 5e did something like that, and also tied in some things that weren't necessarily contingent on enemy type, but were more useful vs one type of enemy than another (for example dealing extra damage to a creature below its' HP maximum is more useful for fighting creatures like Giants or Dragons, who are typically pretty beefy, and thus will spend a lot more time below their HP max, before they go down.)


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Okay, so my alchemist will have to dip in ranger to shoot better and to lay traps. Good to know.

Now, while I think this is a fine job you're doing, the favored enemy feature was quite nice. It said "I know everything about hunting these creatures, they're my prey". The quarry mechanic is good too, certainly more convenient, but any chance of getting favored enemies back in the ring? Maybe a class feat? Maybe an archetype? Maybe many archetypes, like I dunno, "dragon-slayer"... good for any class intent on hunting down dragons. Same with undead, fiends, orcs, whatever. Humans too of course, an orcish martial npc will want that.

Also, I see the synergy snare/difficult terrain/flat-footed is pretty good, but I hope in the early levels rangers have some more tricks up their sleeve, or indeed, the fighters will tend to outshine them. I should see the complete class though, and the fighter too. Just an impression.

Good stuff you guys!


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I see that the streamlining of the maths continues: no longer a flat +2 to hit/damage, but a situational bonus building on existing attacks (so to speak - I haven't phrased that very well). I'll be interested to see how it plays out, but overall this looks pretty positive.

And I'm happy to see spells removed - by the time they come online in the PF1 ranger, they're almost not worth it.

I have to say, I'm still not convinced by having fixed DCs for items (in this case the freezing snare). My worry is it won't scale, but I will wait to see how it plays.


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Mark, how modular will the Ranger be? Will class feats/archetypes allow you to replicate the Slayer or Hunter? I feel like with all these more modular classes, we are going to end up losing all the cool hybrid classes like the Magus(Fighter/Wizard kind of), Slayer(Ranger/Rogue), Ninja(Rogue/Monk kind of), etc.


2 gp seems pretty expensive for the slowing snare.

Ranger sorts are probably my other favorite class (Barbs take the official nod.) so I'm interested in seeing how it goes. I'm liking revised favored enemy and want to know more on how archery plays.

All in all, I'm optimistic.


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Overall not bad. It may be the best preview yet with one exception: snares... They seem super niche in that they take significant time and cash to use. 2gp seems high for a single square of difficult terrain when I think you could fill a space with trash [logs, rocks, ect] in a min for free and do the same.

Also curious on weight... no BULK of traps. And while the FREEZING SNARE is interesting, is that cost on TOP of the three vials of liquid ice?


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Tholomyes wrote:
Fuzzypaws wrote:
I would like to see the old flavor of Favored Enemy expanded in feats though. Maybe not specifically damage and attack bonuses vs a certain creature type that may rarely or never come up, but rather, thematic abilities that would be excellent against most creatures of a given type. For example, maybe a Ranger who has the equivalent of Favored Enemy Giants does extra damage and gets bonuses on maneuvers against creatures larger than she is.
I'd probably rework that to be "Creatures who are Large, or Larger" rather than "larger than she is" otherwise, I expect that most rangers you see will be Goblins, Halflings, or Gnomes.

Haha, fair enough. But yeah, point still stands. I would love to see that style of "Favored Enemy" ability, rather than seeing the old 3.x version come back.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Fuzzypaws wrote:


No Master in weaponry until 13th level?! It can be later than the Fighter, that's fine, but I thought Master stuff was generally supposed to come online by around 7th level. Especially for something key to your class, like weapons for a ranger.

Skills can reach master at 7 (for one skill) as can a save or Perception for classes amazing at them (like ranger), but attack, spells, and AC are more generally later than that by a fair bit. The only class that gets master in anything much earlier is the fighter (technically a gray maiden prestige archetype can get Fortitude to master at 6, and that's the only other one that's pre-7 I think), as part of the fighter's shtick.


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Fuzzypaws wrote:


No Master in weaponry until 13th level?! It can be later than the Fighter, that's fine, but I thought Master stuff was generally supposed to come online by around 7th level. Especially for something key to your class, like weapons for a ranger.

That's the case for skills, but combat (including weapon/save/spellcasting) proficiencies are a lot more diverse.


graystone wrote:

Overall not bad. It may be the best preview yet with one exception: snares... They seem super niche in that they take significant time and cash to use. 2gp seems high for a single square of difficult terrain when I think you could fill a space with trash [logs, rocks, ect] in a min for free and do the same.

Also curious on weight... no BULK of traps. And while the FREEZING SNARE is interesting, is that cost on TOP of the three vials of liquid ice?

Yeah, I would expect that basic snare to either fill a 15x15 space or to do something else, like damage or entangle a target in the square when it goes off, because as you mentioned it is trivial to make one square difficult terrain for free with a minute's work.


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Combat Monster wrote:
2 gp seems pretty expensive for the slowing snare.

It's only expensive if you have time to use it, and you won't.

Snares look like a dead class feature that take up space that could have been something useful.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I do like a spell-less ranger. I think this class will be a better fit for my PF1 elven fighter and I look forward to playing with it.

I also like that this leaves open some space for a semi-magical nature class in future releases. I'd like to see the shifter take that role if/when she is brought into PF2.


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Glad to see my guess about Rangers being awesome at employing monster knowledge was on target. Really thought we would see spell points as a feat here though-- makes me wonder if powers will be available to all classes through an archetype.

Since some are worried the Ranger will be too strong compared to other martials and others are worried they will be too weak, I'll point out that Hunt Target does a decent amount to close the gap between the Ranger and the fighter whose weapon profiency is better. The fighter will still be better with heavy weapons, at least, but agile weapons and archery sounds hella competitive. And the ranger retains some utility and skill edges over the fighter to keep them balanced.


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I like this take on rangers.

Favoured Enemy is a cool concept, but inflexible as a core feature.

It seems good for an archetype.

Thank you for the class blog, though the editing seems slightly rushed.

---

"we are trying out a a spell-less ranger."
"assuming that he has at least master proficiency in the weapon he is."
"The target must attempt a DC 22 Reflexsave."

Paizo Employee Designer

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Wandering Wastrel wrote:
I have to say, I'm still not convinced by having fixed DCs for items (in this case the freezing snare). My worry is it won't scale, but I will wait to see how it plays.

Rangers can scale all their snares if they go into it. Also, you didn't say this but I've seen a few posts that did, so I'll respond here: Rangers don't have anything built in that involves making snares (the only single mention of snares in a built in talent was that I added that snares can also trigger nature's edge, the ability they already had that let them treat enemies as flat-footed in areas of natural difficult terrain). If you like snares and want to be able to make them in a single action for no gp cost at will (the DC is lower if you do it for no gp cost), then you can go for it! Otherwise, you might focus more on animals and monster knowledge (like I did with my ranger), or boosting allies, or other options.


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Super happy to see the favored enemy mechanic replaced with something that's more flexible, and I find Hunt Target to be a better fit in terms of flavor too.

It's really difficult to express hunter skills in TTRPG mechanics and have them feel different from generic martial skills. This might be the best take on it that I know of.

Also Happy to see that spell-casting is non-mandatory, though It'd be nice to have as an option.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

By "make them in a single action" do you mean 'deploy snares onto the battlefield' or 'produce snares to use later'? Since the former seems to be what's needed to make snares interesting/usable.

Paizo Employee Designer

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42nfl19 wrote:
Mark, how modular will the Ranger be? Will class feats/archetypes allow you to replicate the Slayer or Hunter? I feel like with all these more modular classes, we are going to end up losing all the cool hybrid classes like the Magus(Fighter/Wizard kind of), Slayer(Ranger/Rogue), Ninja(Rogue/Monk kind of), etc.

I feel like you can sort of already do the slayer in many ways, given that Hunt Target is based off slayer's Studied Target. Hunter I think would be very easy to do with an archetype I expect we'll see in the Core Rulebook, assuming the playtest doesn't change things of course!

All that said, it doesn't mean there's no reason to ever make new classes with hybrid-like abilities, like the magus. It just means you can get a lot of their functionality with just the core (which is a good thing for that wait between the core and other books!)


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Arachnofiend, I don't have experience with PF, coming from other games, but I think laying down a snare is something players will definitely do if that's a big part of their character.

Like, the rogue listens in at a door, hears orcs, ranger lays down trap on threshold, ambush. The party tracks a dragon to its cave, ranger lays down traps, call attention to yourself, ambush.

Who played Horizon Zero Dawn here? Trapping areas and luring your enemies to trigger them is pretty awesome.

Maybe... maybe traps could be take less time to set, Mark? Like some actions, a round's worth, like? I dunno. I think a minute is good enough still, but, maybe something to consider.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Wandering Wastrel wrote:
I have to say, I'm still not convinced by having fixed DCs for items (in this case the freezing snare). My worry is it won't scale, but I will wait to see how it plays.
Rangers can scale all their snares if they go into it. Also, you didn't say this but I've seen a few posts that did, so I'll respond here: Rangers don't have anything built in that involves making snares (the only single mention of snares in a built in talent was that I added that snares can also trigger nature's edge, the ability they already had that let them treat enemies as flat-footed in areas of natural difficult terrain). If you like snares and want to be able to make them in a single action for no gp cost at will (the DC is lower if you do it for no gp cost), then you can go for it! Otherwise, you might focus more on animals and monster knowledge (like I did with my ranger), or boosting allies, or other options.

Ah. That is very useful information to know. Thank you! :-)


I'm starting to feel real curious about what critical successes and critical failures look like for locating invisible enemies. Hunt Target and the Gnome smell feat both provide a +2 bonus on very specific checks, which doesn't seem exciting at first glance. This probably means the 4 tiers are a big deal here. Perhaps something like:

Success: You know the general direction of the creature but not its square.
Critical success: you know the exact position of the enemy.
Failure: You can determine that the creature is still present but have no clue as to where.
Critical Failure: You can't verify if the creature is even present.

42nfl19 wrote:
Mark, how modular will the Ranger be? Will class feats/archetypes allow you to replicate the Slayer or Hunter? I feel like with all these more modular classes, we are going to end up losing all the cool hybrid classes like the Magus(Fighter/Wizard kind of), Slayer(Ranger/Rogue), Ninja(Rogue/Monk kind of), etc.

If anything, the new Ranger is closer to the Slayer than the old Ranger. At least as far as its core offensive mechanics work.

The new "fight together" mechanics sound like they will rock for Ranger pets, and I imagine will capture a lot of the charm of the Hunter. Spells seem like the big loss there, but Multiclassing or archetypes may help out...


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The hunted target feels a little underwhelming, but if more knowledgeable folks than I are happy with it, then I am, too. I'm also quite fine with the spell-less rangers; it's something so many people have clamored for over the years, and it just feels right from a cinematic and fantasy perspective.

I am curious how the snare ability is going to play, because very rarely have I ever had ANY game situations that lended themselves to ambushes. Nine times out of ten, WE are the ones doing the assaulting or ambushing, not vice versa. Plus, traps that are 1 square big? Only in specific choke points would that be of any use.

Nothing in this blog was truly inspiring to me, but then I'm not a frequent player of Rangers.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
42nfl19 wrote:
Mark, how modular will the Ranger be? Will class feats/archetypes allow you to replicate the Slayer or Hunter? I feel like with all these more modular classes, we are going to end up losing all the cool hybrid classes like the Magus(Fighter/Wizard kind of), Slayer(Ranger/Rogue), Ninja(Rogue/Monk kind of), etc.
I feel like you can sort of already do the slayer in many ways, given that Hunt Target is based off slayer's Studied Target. Hunter I think would be very easy to do with an archetype I expect we'll see in the Core Rulebook, assuming the playtest doesn't change things of course!

Is there much playtest support for a single-shot sharpshooter archery style? Maybe Deadly Aim or something similar, looking at the new Power Attack, to make one highly-focused and damaging shot per a turn viable?


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I know a lot of the high-level melee monsters are capable of flight. Since you can't really expect a position trigger on ranged attackers anyway, are there any options for placing snares for volume, and not merely area, denial?

In other words, is there Stealth Rock?

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