Ranger Class Preview

Monday, July 2, 2018

Rangers have a long tradition in heroic adventure. Whether they're portrayed as lone striders keeping the edges of the wilderness free of the threats that lurch forth from the world's shadows, as hunters tracking down fugitives or beasts, or as skilled archers serving as a scouting force for a local lord or group of village elders, rangers have a special place in our fantastical imagination.

For the Pathfinder Playtest, we decided to cleave closer to the core principles of the ranger—a rough and tumble warrior in the wild, possibly of the wild himself. Because of this, the most significant change we made to the class was that it no longer has spellcasting ability, at least as a default. Of course, this doesn't mean we have to abandon this aspect of the Pathfinder First Edition ranger forever. Because of the way classes are now structured, it would be easy to create a spellcasting build of the ranger later using Spell Points (like the paladin), but for the Playtest, we are trying out a a spell-less ranger.

But enough of what the ranger doesn't have. Let's take a look at what he does.

Ranger Features

First and foremost, the ranger is a hunter. In Pathfinder First Edition, you picked creature types or subtypes that you were skilled at hunting. There are few things more frustrating than playing a ranger who rarely—or worst of all, never—encounters their favored enemies. It also led to some players who tended to play in more human-centric campaigns picking the human subtype, even if their backgrounds may have pointed to better choices for favored enemies.

This time we made the ranger hunting ability a bit more flexible, based on some popular ideas from the guide archetype and the slayer's studied target. At 1st level, rangers gain the Hunt Target feature.

[[A]] Hunt Target

Ranger

Requirements You can see or hear the target.

You designate a single creature within 100 feet as your target and focus your attacks against that creature. While hunting that creature, you gain benefits for focusing your attacks. As long as all your attacks in a round are against the target you're hunting, the multiple attack penalty you take on the second attack is -4 (-3 with an agile weapon) instead of -5, and -8 (-6 with an agile weapon) instead of -10 on the third and any further attacks in the round. You also ignore the penalty for making ranged attacks against the target you're hunting within your second range increment. You also gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Perception checks when you Seek your target and a +2 circumstance bonus to Survival checks when you Track your target.

You can have only one creature designated as the target of your hunt at a time. If you use Hunt Target against a creature when you already have a creature designated, the prior creature loses the designation and the new target gains the designation. In any case, this designation lasts until your next daily preparation.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

There are many class feats and some higher-level abilities that augment the ranger's Hunt Target. For example, at 17th level, the masterful hunter feature decreases the ranger's multiple attack penalty to -3 (or -2 with agile weapon) with his second attack and -6 (or -4 with agile weapons) on his third or further attack, and he can ignore the penalty against the target of his hunt in the second or third range increment, assuming that he has at least master proficiency in the weapon he is. Speaking of which, like the fighter, the ranger gains weapon mastery for a group of weapons, though he gains it at 13th level instead of at 3rd level like the fighter. At 19th level, the ranger gains the swift target feature, which allows him to use Hunt Target as a free action triggered before he makes his first Strike each round, so he's never without a target to hunt! The specifics of the Hunt Target ability make the ranger excel at a variety of combat styles, especially his traditional two-weapon fighting (since you can decrease the multiple attack penalty with agile attacks to be incredibly small) and archery (since you eliminate some of the most common ranged increment penalties). Of course, a ranger with a less traditional style, like a greatsword with a reduced multiple attack penalty, works great too!

Other class features allow the ranger to stalk and avoid his foes. At 5th level, he gains trackless step. At 7th level, he gains evasion (followed by improved evasion at 15th level). He gains nature's edge at 9th level, which allows him to treat enemies in natural difficult terrain or in difficult terrain resulting from a snare (more on snares later!) as flat-footed. Come 11th level, he gains the wild stride feature, which allows him to ignore or minimize the effects of difficult terrain.

Ranger Feats

Class feats, of course, determine the flavor of individuals within a class, and the ranger is no different. Specific ranger feats allow him to gain an animal companion at the same progression as a druid's, though potentially with special benefits that only a ranger can obtain. Other feats will enable him to further focus on his weapon choice, including a whole string of feats that allow him to specialize in two-weapon fighting.

Some fun feats allow the ranger to use his knowledge and senses to aid his allies as well as himself. Here are a couple of my favorites.

Monster Hunter Feat 1

Ranger

When you critically succeed to identify a target you're hunting with Recall Knowledge, you (and your allies, if you tell them) gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your next attack roll against it, but not against other creatures of that species. The creature is bolstered.

[[F]] Scout's Warning Feat 4

Ranger

Trigger You are about to roll Perception for initiative.

You audibly or visually warn your allies of danger, granting them a +1 circumstance bonus to their initiative rolls.

Harkening back to the hunter's bond class feature in Pathfinder First Edition, these feats allow the ranger to support the rest of the group with increased flexibility in how he chooses to do so, and these are just a few. The ranger can expand on Monster Hunter to grant even more benefits with a successful Recall Knowledge and even share the benefits of Hunt Target with other PCs (pretty much any martial class will love this benefit). And while flanking-savvy fighters might be a rogue's traditional best friend, the 12th-level Distracting Shot feat allows the ranger who hits a target with two ranged attacks in the same turn to leave that critter flat-footed until the start of the ranger's next turn. This helps fast rogues bring the pain quickly and farther away from more heavily armored support.

Another group of feats allows you to create snares. (Told you I'd get to that!)

Snares

Like alchemy, the ability to create snares is granted by a general feat (Snare Crafting). And like alchemists, rangers have the potential to lift general snare crafting to greater heights.

What are snares? Well, they're small portable hazards, very similar to traps, which can be set up in a short period of time (usually 1 minute). While it's unlikely that you will set up a snare in the midst of combat, they are perfect tools to arrange a battleground to your advantage. For instance, remember the nature's edge class feature that allows you to treat enemies in difficult terrain as flat-footed? Here's the most basic snare that creates difficult terrain.

Slowing Snare Snare 1

Consumable, Mechanical, Snare, Trap

Price 2 gp

A square with this snare becomes difficult terrain when the first creature enters it, and then it is destroyed.

Other snares set off alarms, trip, or deal damage to those entering the area of a snare. Grab some alchemical items, and you can deal even more damage with a snare.

Freezing Snare Snare 8

Cold, Consumable, Mechanical, Snare, Trap

Price 50 gp

You set a trio of liquid ice bombs to explode in unison when a creature enters the freezing snare's square. The target must attempt a DC 22 Reflexsave.

Success The target takes 1d8 cold damage.

Critical Success The target is unaffected.

Failure The target takes 3d8 cold damage and is hampered 10 until the end of its next turn.

Critical Failure The target takes 6d8 cold damage and is hampered 10 until the end of its next turn.

Craft Requirements three vials of liquid ice

Ranger feats that deal with snares allow you to learn more of them as your Crafting rank increases, lets you set them up faster (even in the middle of combat), and increases snares' DCs to match your class DC. Always make sure that your allies know where you hid your snares, or no bonus to attack rolls or initiative that you grant them will make up for the damage and humiliation you might cause.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Senior Designer

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Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Talek & Luna wrote:
graystone wrote:
Talek & Luna, I'm kind of confused. Why do you think hunt target is two weapon fighting?
I too am confused Graystone as I made no mention of the hunter class feature relating to two weapon fighting. I am tired of the ranger as a dual wielding warrior concept. I thought I made that pretty clear when I listed several fantasy depictions of rangers and not one of the has dual wield. Rangers should be using spears or pole arms since many cultures use spears and long spears when hunting as you don't want to be up close to a wild animal.

There is nothing in the ranger write up that enforces a dual wielding motif. You can be a spear wielder just as well and benefit from the Hunt Target feature just the same.

The Exchange

Chest Rockwell wrote:
Shinigami02 wrote:
Talek & Luna wrote:
I don't know of any non-D&D mythological or fantasy archetypes that feature dual wielding heroes as rangers.
I believe Legolas is often considered as an iconic non-DnD Ranger, and while his archery is the big, flashy thing (and where most of his class feats would probably be going) when things are too close-quarters for the bow he tends to whip out dual elven daggers and be quite effective with them.
Legolas is not considered a Ranger, that's Aragorn's shtick; Legolas is a Fighter, like Gimli and Borormir, and the dual-wielding thing was in the movies, only.

That is true. There is no mention of Legolas being a ranger. That seemed to be a uniquely human thing. Rangers were mostly Dunedain humans who were descendants of the kingdom of Arnor which the Witch King destroyed

The Exchange

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Talek & Luna wrote:
graystone wrote:
Talek & Luna, I'm kind of confused. Why do you think hunt target is two weapon fighting?
I too am confused Graystone as I made no mention of the hunter class feature relating to two weapon fighting. I am tired of the ranger as a dual wielding warrior concept. I thought I made that pretty clear when I listed several fantasy depictions of rangers and not one of the has dual wield. Rangers should be using spears or pole arms since many cultures use spears and long spears when hunting as you don't want to be up close to a wild animal.
There is nothing in the ranger write up that enforces a dual wielding motif. You can be a spear wielder just as well and benefit from the Hunt Target feature just the same.

That maybe true but you did notice that they LEAD with dual wield as their main option which is odd since rangers who are modeled after hunters would likely not be dual wielding but using spears or missile weapons as hunters.

Tell you what. Grab your longswords and go hunting dual wielding them. Let me know how successful you are at it.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Talek & Luna wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Talek & Luna wrote:
graystone wrote:
Talek & Luna, I'm kind of confused. Why do you think hunt target is two weapon fighting?
I too am confused Graystone as I made no mention of the hunter class feature relating to two weapon fighting. I am tired of the ranger as a dual wielding warrior concept. I thought I made that pretty clear when I listed several fantasy depictions of rangers and not one of the has dual wield. Rangers should be using spears or pole arms since many cultures use spears and long spears when hunting as you don't want to be up close to a wild animal.
There is nothing in the ranger write up that enforces a dual wielding motif. You can be a spear wielder just as well and benefit from the Hunt Target feature just the same.

That maybe true but you did NOTICE that they LEAD with dual wield as their main option which is odd since rangers who are modeled after hunters would likely not be dual wielding but using spears or missile weapons as hunters.

Tell you what. Grab your longswords and go hunting dual wielding them. Let me know how successful you are at it.

Edit: Actually, no. No way to say it that doesn;t make me sound like I'm advocating murder. Pathfinder isn't reality. I'll leave it at that.

Grand Lodge

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Talek & Luna wrote:
That maybe true but you did notice that they LEAD with dual wield as their main option which is odd since rangers who are modeled after hunters would likely not be dual wielding but using spears or missile weapons as hunters.

You are ascribing intent that is not there.


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I'm willing to bet "twf" was one of the most popular ranger combat styles in PF1. But this has less to do with any famous rangers in fiction who fought with two weapons, and more to do with how rangers could bypass the considerable prerequisites for the twf feats with combat styles. Later one they added more ways to be a str based twfer, but early on people picked ranger just to do this.

So mentioning two-weapon fighting was largely there to remind people of their PF1 rangers.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Talek & Luna wrote:
That maybe true but you did notice that they LEAD with dual wield as their main option which is odd since rangers who are modeled after hunters would likely not be dual wielding but using spears or missile weapons as hunters.
You are ascribing intent that is not there.

I agree: it didn't LEAD with them, it said "Other feats will enable him to further focus on his weapon choice, including a whole string of feats that allow him to specialize in two-weapon fighting." Pointing out that one of the options is TWF just lets everyone know that you can emulate the old weapons styles. I'm sure the rogues will also have that 'sacred cow' of two weapon fighting. Heck i wouldn't be surprised if the FIGHTER gets them too.

Talek & Luna wrote:
Tell you what. Grab your longswords and go hunting dual wielding them. Let me know how successful you are at it.

I've had a LONG debate with someone else about how hunting covers many methods. Bushman NOW regularly use spears as do those using animal pits. There is a not more to hunting than sniping. In fact you have to look no further than the USA for spear hunting: Alabama, Hawaii, Nebraska and Oklahoma allow the practice.

Oklahoma permits it in a variety of situations, including “gigging,” or frog hunting.
Nebraska permits it for “antelope, deer, elk, mountain sheep or turkey,” although a spear cannot contain “poison or stupefying chemical” or have “an explosive tip.”
Hawaii allows spear hunting for “wild pigs and wild goats and wild sheep.”
Alabama? Anything you can legally hunt, you can do so with a spear.


I always heard the 3.0 ranger was made based on drizzt because of how insanely popular he was. (is?)


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
I always heard the 3.0 ranger was made based on drizzt because of how insanely popular he was. (is?)

In 1e, Unearthed Arcana gave drow two weapon fighting.

2e rangers got the Two-Weapon fighting skill, but only when wearing Studded Leather or lighter armor. So it was a thing before 3.0.

Around the same time as 2e, Crystal Shard came out with drizzt. So it's more that drizzt had two weapon fighting because of the existing rules than the rules changed to match drizzt.


graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
I always heard the 3.0 ranger was made based on drizzt because of how insanely popular he was. (is?)

In 1e, Unearthed Arcana gave drow two weapon fighting.

2e rangers got the Two-Weapon fighting skill, but only when wearing Studded Leather or lighter armor. So it was a thing before 3.0.

Around the same time as 2e, Crystal Shard came out with drizzt. So it's more that drizzt had two weapon fighting because of the existing rules than the rules changed to match drizzt.

Ah ok interesting. I skipped 2nd edition went from 1st right to 3rd.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
I always heard the 3.0 ranger was made based on drizzt because of how insanely popular he was. (is?)

In 1e, Unearthed Arcana gave drow two weapon fighting.

2e rangers got the Two-Weapon fighting skill, but only when wearing Studded Leather or lighter armor. So it was a thing before 3.0.

Around the same time as 2e, Crystal Shard came out with drizzt. So it's more that drizzt had two weapon fighting because of the existing rules than the rules changed to match drizzt.

Ah ok interesting. I skipped 2nd edition went from 1st right to 3rd.

I've been here for the whole ride. ;)

People have been trying to tie drizzt to ranger changes for a long time but the timeline doesn't match up. While drizzt did technically come out before 2e, there realistically wasn't enough time between them for a change. He IS responsible for FAR, FAR too many drow running around... :P


graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
I always heard the 3.0 ranger was made based on drizzt because of how insanely popular he was. (is?)

In 1e, Unearthed Arcana gave drow two weapon fighting.

2e rangers got the Two-Weapon fighting skill, but only when wearing Studded Leather or lighter armor. So it was a thing before 3.0.

Around the same time as 2e, Crystal Shard came out with drizzt. So it's more that drizzt had two weapon fighting because of the existing rules than the rules changed to match drizzt.

Ah ok interesting. I skipped 2nd edition went from 1st right to 3rd.

I've been here for the whole ride. ;)

People have been trying to tie drizzt to ranger changes for a long time but the timeline doesn't match up. While drizzt did technically come out before 2e, there realistically wasn't enough time between them for a change. He IS responsible for FAR, FAR too many drow running around... :P

All I've ever gotten about him is hearsay. never bothered reading any of the books he's in. (forgotten realms right?). Ranger is kind of a weird mark I guess. seems like they always change quite a bit from edition to edition. I think my favorite change was when 3.5 gave them different combat style options instead of just bow or 2 weapon. that or letting them choose a different favored enemy instead of getting default orc ogres giants etc.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
I always heard the 3.0 ranger was made based on drizzt because of how insanely popular he was. (is?)

In 1e, Unearthed Arcana gave drow two weapon fighting.

2e rangers got the Two-Weapon fighting skill, but only when wearing Studded Leather or lighter armor. So it was a thing before 3.0.

Around the same time as 2e, Crystal Shard came out with drizzt. So it's more that drizzt had two weapon fighting because of the existing rules than the rules changed to match drizzt.

Ah ok interesting. I skipped 2nd edition went from 1st right to 3rd.

I've been here for the whole ride. ;)

People have been trying to tie drizzt to ranger changes for a long time but the timeline doesn't match up. While drizzt did technically come out before 2e, there realistically wasn't enough time between them for a change. He IS responsible for FAR, FAR too many drow running around... :P

All I've ever gotten about him is hearsay. never bothered reading any of the books he's in. (forgotten realms right?). Ranger is kind of a weird mark I guess. seems like they always change quite a bit from edition to edition. I think my favorite change was when 3.5 gave them different combat style options instead of just bow or 2 weapon. that or letting them choose a different favored enemy instead of getting default orc ogres giants etc.

2e started terrains and Species Enemy [from that terrain]. It was 1e that limited you to giants. ;)

And yes, forgotten realms.


Hey now I may not know second but I know 1st. I never could get my DM to update so we just stopped playing with him eventually (there were other reasons). I wasn't saying the favored enemy changed in 3.5 just the combat style options. 3.0 had that thing where if you took one level of ranger you automatically gained all the two weapon feats and as long as you kept perform up your 1 level of bard would give you all the performances too. So that was probably a good call changing that and making them lighter too more skills etc.


Vidmaster 1st edition wrote:
I wasn't saying the favored enemy changed in 3.5

They did. 3.0 was MUCH easier to work with: 2 required a specific creature from your terrain: so say bronze dragons vs 3.0's entire dragon type. It was a substantial upgrade.

Vidmaster 1st edition wrote:
3.0 had that thing where if you took one level of ranger you automatically gained all the two weapon feats

Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting. Yep, 3.5 changed that to 2nd level for Rapid Shot or Two-Weapon Fighting. 3.5 fixed alot of 3.0's issues.

Vidmaster 1st edition wrote:
1 level of bard would give you all the performances too.

True, but uses was level based so that's 1 use per day.


graystone wrote:
Vidmaster 1st edition wrote:
I wasn't saying the favored enemy changed in 3.5

They did. 3.0 was MUCH easier to work with: 2 required a specific creature from your terrain: so say bronze dragons vs 3.0's entire dragon type. It was a substantial upgrade.

Vidmaster 1st edition wrote:
3.0 had that thing where if you took one level of ranger you automatically gained all the two weapon feats

Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting. Yep, 3.5 changed that to 2nd level for Rapid Shot or Two-Weapon Fighting. 3.5 fixed alot of 3.0's issues.

Vidmaster 1st edition wrote:
1 level of bard would give you all the performances too.

True, but uses was level based so that's 1 use per day.

Wasn't there a feat where you could get more uses? (there was a lot of feats) That was I think the most dippable edition.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
Wasn't there a feat where you could get more uses? (there was a lot of feats) That was I think the most dippable edition.

Extra music. And dippable if it's a favored class. That experience hit was nasty if all your levels weren't within 1 of each other.


graystone wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Wasn't there a feat where you could get more uses? (there was a lot of feats) That was I think the most dippable edition.
Extra music. And dippable if it's a favored class. That experience hit was nasty if all your levels weren't within 1 of each other.

Oh yeah I had forgotten about. So If I was human however there highest was favorite right? So I could have one class at higher level and then as many other 1 level dipped classes as I wanted.

Liberty's Edge

graystone wrote:
I'm sure the rogues will also have that 'sacred cow' of two weapon fighting. Heck i wouldn't be surprised if the FIGHTER gets them too.

Fighters get at least Double Slice, it's been mentioned. Rogues we actually have no idea on.


graystone wrote:


Talek & Luna wrote:
Tell you what. Grab your longswords and go hunting dual wielding them. Let me know how successful you are at it.

I've had a LONG debate with someone else about how hunting covers many methods. Bushman NOW regularly use spears as do those using animal pits. There is a not more to hunting than sniping. In fact you have to look no further than the USA for spear hunting: Alabama, Hawaii, Nebraska and Oklahoma allow the practice.

Oklahoma permits it in a variety of situations, including “gigging,” or frog hunting.
Nebraska permits it for “antelope, deer, elk, mountain sheep or turkey,” although a spear cannot contain “poison or stupefying chemical” or have “an explosive tip.”
Hawaii allows spear hunting for “wild pigs and wild goats and wild sheep.”
Alabama? Anything you can legally hunt, you can do so with a spear.

The debate was an attempt on your part to derail the issue. At no point did I say there was one type of hunting. What I said is no one hunts in a way that is representative of Hunt Target. Or to put it another way, Hunt Target's combat mechanic--no bonus on the first attack but increasing accuracy on 2nd and 3rd attacks--in no way, shape, or form, represents any real or fictionalized aspect of hunting. But since Rangers are not first and foremost hunters, I suppose I should be glad HT does nothing to create the sense of hunting.

Your own example of spear hunting unwittingly proves the point. When you throw a spear, you get one, and only one, shot at the animal. So spear hunting demands that the hunter understand how to kill with one throw, not two or three rounds of attacks.

It is rather annoying to have Paizo tell us that Rangers are "first and foremost hunters" and then saddle the class with skill that has nothing to do with hunting. Honestly, they could have slapped +2 Seek/Track and the same range benefit on Power Attack and we'd have tons of posters telling us how great a fit that was for hunting.

Don't you think it's odd that Paizo already created a class called Hunter and yet none of those abilities were discussed in the PF2 Ranger? In fact, the Hunter from PF1 has more spells (and orisons) than the Ranger from PF1, but the Ranger who is "first and foremost a hunter" appears not to have any. Paizo even admitted that HT comes from the Slayer, not the Hunter. Go figure.


Talek & Luna wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Talek & Luna wrote:
Seriously, it is very disappointing that rangers still have the sacred cow of two weapon fighting due to one drow ranger from the old D&D days.
The weird thing about that, is that TWF was originally a Drow thing, nothing to do with Rangers, it all went wrong with the 2nd Ed AD&D Ranger...I kept using the 1st Ed one.

You are 100% correct. In AD&D 1rst Edition you could dual wield as long as your off hand weapon was a dagger or hand axe although you did so with severe penalties. With the release of Unearthed Arcana drow could dual wield any one handed weapon. 2nd edition AD&D gave this to the ranger as long as the off hand weapon as shorter than the main hand weapon and the ranger had to be in studded leather or lesser armor.

This was done because people complained that the ranger was a walking tank that could track so the ranger was given stealth options and two weapon fighting to compensate for lesser armor.

All true, the "walking tank that can track" is pretty much a direct quote, nice, but the TWF for Drow deal goes back to their Fiend Folio roots.

So, Drizzt is a funny case, his TWF originally comes from race, and his animal companion is a magic item.

He was also an off-the-cuff character RA came up with on the spot when his editor asked about another companion for Wulfgar. Oh, and RA said Drizzt is a cross between Aragorn and Daryth (wields a scimitar), from the FR Moonshae novels.


I just realized that hunt works pretty good with throwing melee hybrid weapons - I'm considering a starknife using ranger :D


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Deeply inspired by this thread.

The Exchange

graystone wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Talek & Luna wrote:
That maybe true but you did notice that they LEAD with dual wield as their main option which is odd since rangers who are modeled after hunters would likely not be dual wielding but using spears or missile weapons as hunters.
You are ascribing intent that is not there.

I agree: it didn't LEAD with them, it said "Other feats will enable him to further focus on his weapon choice, including a whole string of feats that allow him to specialize in two-weapon fighting." Pointing out that one of the options is TWF just lets everyone know that you can emulate the old weapons styles. I'm sure the rogues will also have that 'sacred cow' of two weapon fighting. Heck i wouldn't be surprised if the FIGHTER gets them too.

Talek & Luna wrote:
Tell you what. Grab your longswords and go hunting dual wielding them. Let me know how successful you are at it.

I've had a LONG debate with someone else about how hunting covers many methods. Bushman NOW regularly use spears as do those using animal pits. There is a not more to hunting than sniping. In fact you have to look no further than the USA for spear hunting: Alabama, Hawaii, Nebraska and Oklahoma allow the practice.

Oklahoma permits it in a variety of situations, including “gigging,” or frog hunting.
Nebraska permits it for “antelope, deer, elk, mountain sheep or turkey,” although a spear cannot contain “poison or stupefying chemical” or have “an explosive tip.”
Hawaii allows spear hunting for “wild pigs and wild goats and wild sheep.”
Alabama? Anything you can legally hunt, you can do so with a spear.

It definitely is a sacred cow of two weapon fighting being retained and hi-lighted for rangers when the iconic ranger picture went from dwarf with crossbow to dwarf with dual wield axes. Also they went on to stress how hunt target stacks with agile weapons to reduce penalties for dual wielding. Its deliberately leading to the assumption that dual wielding is the preferred fighting method for rangers. Would it surprise you if the dwarf were holding a spear two handed instead of dual wielding axes?

Point two, thanks for making my point for me about spears being preferred over dual wielding. Its in my rebuttal to the previous poster about the absurdity of saying these rangers are hunters and dual wielding is the way to go, which is utterly preposterous as no hunter that I know of in any culture went out hunting game as a dual wielder. Bows, spears, crossbows and slings were the preferred hunting weapons.

Its disappointing that they didn't go into other aspects of ranger abilities such as tracking, terrain knowledge, spells, animal companions and survival abilities. Instead we got lame traps that seem very niche, a vague trackless step and nature's edge which is so narrow for a 9th level ability to be useless.


Talek & Luna wrote:
Its disappointing that they didn't go into other aspects of ranger abilities such as tracking, terrain knowledge, spells, animal companions and survival abilities. Instead we got lame traps that seem very niche, a vague trackless step and nature's edge which is so narrow for a 9th level ability to be useless.

I couldn't agree with this more. In fact, I'll do you one better.

Hey Paizo...why not give all these wilderness things a LOT earlier in the build? These things are so incredibly situational and of marginal survival value, no pun intended. Break away from this mindset that you have to stretch out these feats over 20 levels. I don't see that a 3rd level Ranger with Trackless Step is considerably more powerful in combat or skill checks than one without it. But bringing all these feats much earlier will make the Ranger feel far more capable at doing that thing they are good at doing, despite the fact that I get almost no benefit from them in PFS games.

By 5th level, give the Ranger:

Trackless Step - When has this ever been actually useful? Why not give this out at 2nd level?
Wildstride
Nature's Edge

The only counterargument I can see is if this makes multi-classing more attractive, but I'm thinking it doesn't matter what level they are available for the Ranger? Could be wrong on this.


Talek & Luna wrote:
Throwing spears at animals would injure them more often than kill them outright. Then the hunters would run from an attacking animal and wait for it to bleed out. Later with steel weapons and powerful bows that dynamic certainly changed but making multiple attacks against large game such as crocodiles, bears, moose, bison, lions and other powerful animals is not unrealistic

We mean multiple attacks from the same attacker. You're right, a single spear is generally not going to kill a lion. That's why you hunt in a group. You don't go up to these big game animals and go stab, stab, stab, then stab, stab, stab again. You'll be dead if they are aggressive. But this is what HT wants you to do in melee because you are "first and foremost a hunter."


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Frankly, hunting is mostly not a very impressive looking activity.

Another reason why positioning the Ranger as a "Hunter" is so irksome. I checked with PFS Analytics and "hunting" isn't even a thing in PFS.


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N N 959 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Frankly, hunting is mostly not a very impressive looking activity.
Another reason why positioning the Ranger as a "Hunter" is so irksome. I checked with PFS Analytics and "hunting" isn't even a thing in PFS.

You got a link to that?

I don't doubt you but my own google search hasn't shown any actual PFS data site. Or if it does it's for something not Pathfinder Society(Professional Freight Solutions was a fun read)

Is the data buried somewhere on Paizo or in the PFS sections?


Chest Rockwell wrote:
Are you saying that you have hunted boar with a spear?

Heck NO. I personally don't find hunting enjoyable and I prefer not to be in close range of angry and wounded animals... :P

That said, I like weapons and know how to use/wield quite a few. I've gotten to use both a modern and an older type boar spear. A friend of a friend hunts boars with a spear and hog dogs and I got to try out his spears.

The closest I ever came to hunting with a spear was gigging fish when I was quite young.


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Man who knew D&D doesn't play like real life. I bet in real life people don't even take turns. shameful. Same for gun fights to people hardly ever just keep firing at each other gradually filling each other with holes till one of the runs out of hp. Man that D&D sure is a terrible simulation of real life.


MerlinCross wrote:


You got a link to that?

I don't doubt you but my own google search hasn't shown any actual PFS data site. Or if it does it's for something not Pathfinder Society(Professional Freight Solutions was a fun read)

Is the data buried somewhere on Paizo or in the PFS sections?

Sorry, the PFS Analytics thing is a joke from the thread on PFS influence on PF2.


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I think the big (and necessary difference) between "Pathfinder Hunting" and "Real World Hunting" is that oftentimes a single hit, well placed, is sufficient to drop your target, though they may need to bleed out first.

A roleplaying game in which a single arrow kills you is probably not as fun as the one we've got.

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