Eminent Domains

Friday, April 27, 2018

Deities and their domains are a big part of what makes clerics special. Logan set the stage with his cleric blog on Monday, so now let's get into the weeds and take a look at how we structured deities and domains.

Basic Deities

For each deity, we present some basic information, including areas of concern, titles, alignment, edicts, anathema, and favored weapon. Most of these are familiar or self-explanatory. One of the newer entries, anathema, is a concept Logan mentioned on Monday. This entry provides examples of actions that violate the deity's tenets. Let's take Shelyn as an example.

Shelyn

The Eternal Rose is the goddess of art, beauty, love, and music. She seeks to one day redeem her corrupted brother Zon-Kuthon.

Alignment NG
Edicts be peaceful, choose and perfect an art, lead by example, see the beauty in all things
Anathema destroy works of art or allow one to be destroyed except to save a life or in pursuit of greater art, refuse to accept surrender, strike first
Favored Weapon glaive

This entry gives you a good idea of how to play a Shelynite PC of any class. For example, a fighter faithful Shelyn might consider wielding her goddess's favored weapon, and even lay followers would likely feel terrible guilt at committing anathema acts even though they face no mechanical consequence for doing so. But what kind of cool stuff do you get if you're a cleric of a specific deity?

Clerics and Deities

Your choice of deity is essential when determining what type of cleric you play. A free-spirited and optimistic Desnan cleric, a tyrannical and scheming Asmodean, and a self-reliant perfectionist Iroran all relate to the world in different ways. We wanted to reflect this with a variety of character customization options based on deity! We've included a chart that indicates each deity's areas of concern, alignment (and the alignments allowed for their clerics), type of channeled energy (positive, negative, or either), signature skill, favored weapon, domains, and spells. For instance, here's Shelyn's entry on that table:

ShelynArt, beauty, love, and musicNG (LG, NG, CG)PositiveCraftingGlaiveCreation, family,
passion, protection
1st: color spray,
3rd: enthrall, 4th: creation

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

The deity's areas of concern include a brief restatement of her titles.

You'll notice the alignment lists not only Shelyn's alignment of neutral good, but also all the alignments her clerics could have in parentheses. Listing it this way allows us (or you, for your own deities) to be more expressive when creating deities. For instance, Norgorber now has slightly different alignments permitted for his clerics depending on which aspect of the deity they worship! Or, you could create a new deity of balance through opposing extremes who accepts only neutral, lawful good, chaotic good, chaotic evil, and lawful evil clerics.

Listing the type of channeled energy the deity grants allows for some really exciting situations. For instance, Lamasthu may be an incredibly evil deity of nightmares, but she's also a deity of the wild fecundity of the Abyss, so she allows her clerics to choose negative or positive energy when channeling. You could even have a good deity that granted only negative energy (none of the core deities worshiped in the Inner Sea region of Golarion do so, but it could be possible for a deity like Tsukiyo, perhaps, as part of his dualism with Shizuru) or an evil deity that could grant only positive energy.

The deity's signature skill is in addition to those all clerics gain, so Shelynite clerics always have the ability to reach great heights in Crafting. Norgorberite clerics, in contrast, gain Stealth in order to blend into the shadows, allowing them to fit in well with clandestine groups.

What about those spells at the end? Those are three extra spells that all clerics of Shelyn can prepare and cast! These aren't in any sort of special "domain slots" like before; you can cast them as few or as many times as you want. Oh, and Sarenrae has fireball!

But wait, Mark, what about...

Domains

Pathfinder First Edition has a list of domains that cover a variety of basic concepts but miss others entirely, and they are fairly generic, which means they don't always convey the nuance of why your deity has that domain. A great example of this was the Death domain and all its undead spells not really fitting with Pharasma, the goddess of death who hates undead.

One of the earliest and coolest innovations to domains in Pathfinder appeared in the Advanced Player's Guide, where subdomains altered domains to add nuance. In the playtest, we're bringing in that sort of flexibility right away! Each domain has a basic power and an advanced power, and because domain powers work as spells, creating a new domain that's perfect for your world is as simple as adding two spells. This allowed us to include significantly more domains in the game and will allow us to expand to even more domains with ease. Here's the list of new domains that don't share a name with any of the old domains (some names you might recognize from subdomains):

  • Ambition
  • Cities
  • Confidence
  • Creation
  • Dreams
  • Family
  • Fate
  • Freedom
  • Indulgence
  • Light
  • Might
  • Moon
  • Nature
  • Nightmares
  • Pain
  • Passion
  • Perfection
  • Secrecy
  • Truth
  • Tyranny
  • Undeath
  • Wealth
  • Zeal

These domains allow for a variety of powers that can really give you the feel of playing a cleric of a specific deity, both in combat and out! For example, take a look at this fun noncombat basic power from the Indulgence domain:

Enhance Victuals (Transmutation) Power 1

Casting 1 minute (Material, Somatic, Verbal Casting)
Range touch; Target 1 nonmagical pint of water or pound of food

You transform the target into delicious fare, changing water into wine or another fine beverage or enhancing food's taste and ingredients to make it a gourmet treat. The transformation also attempts to counteract toxins in the food or water. If you have Spell Points, you can add an additional pint or pound for each additional Spell Point you spend. The feast vanishes if not consumed.

Heightened (+1) Increase initial and additional pints or pounds by 1.

So if you're a cleric of Cayden Cailean or Urgathoa, you're going to be able to party in style. Since powers are automatically heightened as you gain levels, that means for just 1 Spell Point, a 7th-level cleric can make enough gourmet food for her whole adventuring party to have a meal, and they'll be able to throw a banquet to serve an incredible number of guests if they pour plenty of Spell Points into it during downtime. That's all with only 1 minute to prepare, making them a wonderful host for any occasion!

Meanwhile, the Fate domain has an advanced power that might come in handy in a clutch. But I'll ask you before we dive in—are you feeling lucky?

Tempt Fate (divination, Fortune) Power 2

Casting [[F]] Somatic free action; Trigger You or an ally within range attempts a saving throw.
Range 120 feet; Target you or a willing ally in range

If the triggering saving throw's result is a success, it counts as a critical success. If it's a failure, it counts as a critical failure, and the critical failure can't be reduced by abilities that usually reduce critical failure, such as improved evasion. If the triggering ability did not have both a critical success and critical failure condition, tempt fate fails and your Spell Point is refunded.

With tempt fate, you take your fate into your own hands, promising either total vindication from your saving throw or total disaster! This was a favorite of Jason's cleric of Pharasma in one of our playtests, and needless to say, it's a better choice to use this for your strong saving throws than your weak ones.

But what about Shelyn? Let's close by taking a look at two of the powers from her granted domains, one for in combat and one for outside of combat:

Unity (Abjuration, Fortune) Power 2

Casting [[R]] Verbal reaction; Trigger You and one or more allies within range are targeted by a spell or ability that allows a saving throw.
Range 30 feet

You allow your allies within range to use your saving throw modifier instead of their own. Each ally decides individually which modifier to use.

Unity is really useful for a support cleric with good saving throw modifiers, and it's particularly great for those dangerous area effects that require Will saving throws like a harpy's song, since few allies will be able to match your cleric's Will modifier!

Artistic Flourish (Transmutation) Power 2

Casting 10 minutes (Material, Somatic, Verbal)
Range touch; Target one item or work of art
Duration 24 hours

You infuse the target with artisanal and artistic vision. Its quality increases to match your proficiency rank in Crafting, to a maximum of expert. The target is a beautiful and impressive piece for its new quality, but the effect is obviously temporary, so it can't be sold for more than normal. This doesn't allow you to use the target to Craft a magic item that requires the new quality or perform any other task requiring a permanent item of that quality.

Heightened (4th) If you spend 1 additional Spell Point, the maximum quality increases to master.
Heightened (8th) If you spend 2 additional Spell Points, the maximum quality increases to legendary.

Not only is artistic flourish a great way to express your character's inner artisan, but it can also be of great use in a pinch when you could really use a very specific tool or item of high quality. Legendary-quality items aren't cheap, after all! This is also a great example of one way that using Spell Points allows us to play around a bit more and make the spell more interesting by varying costs. You saw this a bit earlier with enhance victuals, but here it's more than just the ability to save extra castings for a large batch. These sorts of flourishes are possible to word under a "uses per day" system, but it's awkward, and they're straightforward to create and easy to understand with a Spell Point pool.

So who's your favorite deity? What sorts of new domains can you imagine with this new system? Let me know in the comments below!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Sounds good. Thanks for the replies, folks!


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Keep in mind, the Shelyn and the accepting surrender thing - Shelyn refrained from killing her brother - not because she wanted to hold him until he could be judged lawfully - he spared him (and imprisoned him) in hopes of his reformation someday. It's not about mercy towards justice, it's about mercy towards the reformation of evil.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The only concern I see is that the PF2 anathema is less permissive than the PF1 **paladin code**.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
The only concern I see is that the PF2 anathema is less permissive than the PF1 **paladin code**.

I'm not sure that's true. Judging by the one and only example we have, I'd say it's at worst slightly more permissive. I'm looking at my copy of Inner Sea Gods for Shelyn's paladin code, and her current anathema are basically the I won't parts of it, while her edicts are basically the I will parts of it.

It might feel that way based on the ol' standby of the 'generic' paladin code, but I'm pretty sure that isn't a thing anymore.

Anyway, like I mentioned in the Cleric Preview thread, I think it would be great if the rulebooks have a section entirely devoted to the deities, rather than lumping it all in the Cleric section, especially if clerics and paladins (and whatever other classes come later or access such things sideways, or lay worshipers) are basically all following the same edicts/anathemas.

Silver Crusade

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See here for some information on Playtest Paladin code. It's long and I'm on my phone so can't copy over right now.


In all these years I have never got the "Paladin" and Alignment "dilemma".


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Joe M. wrote:
See here for some information on Playtest Paladin code. It's long and I'm on my phone so can't copy over right now.

Clarifying, expanding and refining the paladin's code seems a much better solution to many problems people seem to face than to scrap the entire alignment thing :)


Igwilly wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
See here for some information on Playtest Paladin code. It's long and I'm on my phone so can't copy over right now.
Clarifying, expanding and refining the paladin's code seems a much better solution to many problems people seem to face than to scrap the entire alignment thing :)

For me, every paladin issue was about alignment: the code itself has been a minor irritant at best. So for me, a cleaned up code wouldn't mean much.


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I find it best to approach D&D alignment like Moorcockian cosmic forces; because your are aligned with chaos, does not mean you are an erratic nut-bag.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Igwilly wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
See here for some information on Playtest Paladin code. It's long and I'm on my phone so can't copy over right now.
Clarifying, expanding and refining the paladin's code seems a much better solution to many problems people seem to face than to scrap the entire alignment thing :)

erm..no actually, it fixes one minor irritant of a massively problematical concept. I mean it's a minor issue, about the scale of naming the 'upstanding bastion of good' after the blood drenched genocidal mass murderers that acted as Charlemagne's fists, and executioners in his ethnic cleansing of, and religious wars against the Saxons.


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Rob Godfrey wrote:
Igwilly wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
See here for some information on Playtest Paladin code. It's long and I'm on my phone so can't copy over right now.
Clarifying, expanding and refining the paladin's code seems a much better solution to many problems people seem to face than to scrap the entire alignment thing :)
erm..no actually, it fixes one minor irritant of a massively problematical concept. I mean it's a minor issue, about the scale of naming the 'upstanding bastion of good' after the blood drenched genocidal mass murderers that acted as Charlemagne's fists, and executioners in his ethnic cleansing of, and religious wars against the Saxons.

And his struggle against the Romans.

-PFJ


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
The only concern I see is that the PF2 anathema is less permissive than the PF1 **paladin code**.

Sounds like a positive to me!


Aenigma wrote:

Mark, I have a few questions.

1. Will there still be subdomains in the 2nd edition?

2. Will there still be alignment domains and outsider subdomains? I really wish Paizo to delete them.

3. In the 1st edition, deities have 5 domains and demigods have 4 domains. Is this rule still applied to the 2nd edition?

Seconding all these questions. Specially number 3.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Aenigma wrote:

Mark, I have a few questions.

1. Will there still be subdomains in the 2nd edition?

2. Will there still be alignment domains and outsider subdomains? I really wish Paizo to delete them.

3. In the 1st edition, deities have 5 domains and demigods have 4 domains. Is this rule still applied to the 2nd edition?

Seconding all these questions. Specially number 3.

1. Yes and no. It sounds like domains can pick up additional options going ahead (so you’ll have customizable domains), and they will have new domains (which subdomains were kind of a stand-in for). I dunno if they’ll have things called subdomains, though.

2. Dunno. Probably not in core, since Shelyn isn’t granting good.

3. No, at least not with those numbers. Shelyn has four domains listed, and she’s a deity. They aren’t changing the core 20 deities, so we know she wasn’t demoted.


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Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

Spoiler:
GM: Gotcha!


Artificial 20 wrote:
Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

Actually, that's quite interesting. Challenging one via ethical dilemmas can make for fantastic roleplaying scenarios.

The Cleric has mere moments to decide which of the two tenants of Shelyn would be most forgivable to break. Assuming Shelyn doesn't already have an established priority of her ethos, of course.


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Mewzard wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:
Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

Actually, that's quite interesting. Challenging one via ethical dilemmas can make for fantastic roleplaying scenarios.

The Cleric has mere moments to decide which of the two tenants of Shelyn would be most forgivable to break. Assuming Shelyn doesn't already have an established priority of her ethos, of course.

Art is second only to a living soul in the eyes of Shelyn. Burning a work of art is only a few steps below doing the same to a person in her view. Do you think Shelyn would prevent her clergy from attacking a man who set a person on fire?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A Shelynite Monk at work.


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Mewzard wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:
Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

Actually, that's quite interesting. Challenging one via ethical dilemmas can make for fantastic roleplaying scenarios.

The Cleric has mere moments to decide which of the two tenants of Shelyn would be most forgivable to break. Assuming Shelyn doesn't already have an established priority of her ethos, of course.

There is also the possibility to not have to break either. The cleric in question could interpose themself between the work of art and the person in question and/or plead with the person to stop destroying the work of art. Not every conflict has to be solved with weapons but you sure wouldnt know it reading through the arguing over the strike first tenet, it's almost as if the diplomacy skill doesn't exist.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cowswithguns wrote:
Mewzard wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:
Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

Actually, that's quite interesting. Challenging one via ethical dilemmas can make for fantastic roleplaying scenarios.

The Cleric has mere moments to decide which of the two tenants of Shelyn would be most forgivable to break. Assuming Shelyn doesn't already have an established priority of her ethos, of course.

There is also the possibility to not have to break either. The cleric in question could interpose themself between the work of art and the person in question and/or plead with the person to stop destroying the work of art. Not every conflict has to be solved with weapons but you sure wouldnt know it reading through the arguing over the strike first tenet, it's almost as if the diplomacy skill doesn't exist.

A cleric of Shelyn will also be packing plenty of nonlethal magic. These edicts exist in a world where divine casters have the power to magically subdue someone through the power of their faith. A quick Hold Person will do the trick most of the time, and does no lasting harm.

I read "Strike First" as meaning "be the first to resort to violence".


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Cowswithguns wrote:
There is also the possibility to not have to break either. The cleric in question could interpose themself between the work of art and the person in question and/or plead with the person to stop destroying the work of art. Not every conflict has to be solved with weapons but you sure wouldnt know it reading through the arguing over the strike first tenet, it's almost as if the diplomacy skill doesn't exist.

That's very true. I was focusing on their particular scenario of striking first OR letting it be destroyed, but there are a myriad of options available. Diplomacy? Human Shield? Magic like sleep? Even perhaps a peaceful, but firm grapple until intents can be negotiated (or a proper sleeper hold). Does it count as striking first if you're only keeping them from acting on destructive urges?

Liberty's Edge

Artificial 20 wrote:

Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

** spoiler omitted **

The hooligan destroying art has struck first thus I get to fulfill my righteous calling of destroying the ugly of this world.

Also can you peacefully destroy something?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Artificial 20 wrote:
Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

"I will pay you for the art you do not wish to own any more."


Benjamin Harlow wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:

Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

** spoiler omitted **

The hooligan destroying art has struck first thus I get to fulfill my righteous calling of destroying the ugly of this world.

Also can you peacefully destroy something?

Happens fairly frequently. Just use the wrong cleaning solution on something . . . .

* * * * * * * *

With respect to weapons, I'd like to see something like what Kirthfinder does, only fleshed out more and updated for the little bit we already know about Pathfinder 2nd Edition (and since Clerics still seem to get Deity's Favored Weapon in Pathfinder 2nd Edition, the following is actually somewhat relevant here, but I'll Spoiler it for those who don't want to read the whole thing):

Spoiler:
Each weapon (or at least each of the common ones) has at least 3 ranks of proficiency described for it.

I: Corresponds to Kirthfinder Simple Weapon Proficiency. Weapons considered Simple in Pathfinder 1st Edition have rank I minimum proficiency (Trained in Pathfinder 2nd Edition). Most classes -- but not a few like Monks and Wizards -- get across-the-board Weapon Proficiency I.

II: Corresponds to Kirthfinder Martial Weapon Proficiency: Weapons considered Martial in Pathfinder 1st Edition have rank II minimum proficiency (Expert in Pathfinder 2nd Edition). Classes proficient with "all martial weapons" get across-the-board Weapon Proficiency II, while those that are proficient with specific martial weapons get Weapon Proficiency II with those weaopns. Weapons considered Simple in Pathfinder 1st Edition do not require this level of proficiency, but usually give some additional benefit if you have it.

III: Corresponds to Kirthfinder Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Weapons considered Exotic in Pathfinder 1st Edition have rank III minimum proficiency (Master in Pathfinder 2nd Edition). Classes proficient with an Exotic Weapon in Pathfinder and classes with a Deity's Favored Weapon(*) class feature get Weapon Proficiency III with those weapons, with the latter case applying even if the Deity's Favored Weapon(*) has a lower minimum proficiency. Weapons considered Simple or Martial in Pathfinder 1st Edition do not require this level of proficiency, but usually give some additional benefit if you have it. To reflect difficulty in training to use some actual weapons such as Bows and Slings that are listed as Martial or even Simple in Pathfinder 1st Edition, these weapons should probably be moved to minimum Weapon Proficiency III, or even higher.

(*)Also Favored Weapon of an exceptionally zealous organization or philosophy such the Hellknights.

IV and up: Corresponds to Kirthfinder Exotic Weapon Proficiency when more than one Exotic Weapon Proficiency option is available to get different extra benefits (this would be Legendary in Pathfinder 2nd Edition). Only a few weapons in Kirthfinder have such multiple Exotic Weapon Proficiency options. Conceivably, weapons made using the recently released Pathfinder Custom Weapon Creation Rules could have a minimum proficiency of IV or greater.

Weapon Familiarity from your upbringing(*) gives bonus ranks in weapon proficnecy. When it says somebody is proficient with certain weapons (no ifs, ands, or buts), but does not give more detail (such as "martial proficiency"), it gives the minimum number of ranks required to be proficient with these weapons. When it says somebody treats certain weapons as martial weapons, it gives at least one (but usually just one) bonus rank of proficiency that is added to any proficiency ranks (including across-the-board proficiency ranks) you get from your class; however, different class-based proficiency ranks with the same weapons do not stack unless the class description specifically says that they do (this would usually occur in a prestige class, not a base class).

(*)Now I forgot whether that is supposed to be Ancestry or Heritage . . . .

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Spells not on spell-lists. That's what enlightened me to what spells in PF2 represent. Spells is the name of magical effects you create, whatever the method or the source : spellcasting, Domains, SLAs, ...
If it's magic, it's a spell

With this new understanding, I reverse my stance and ask that devs use the word Spell as much as possible rather than Power or somesuch

On worshippers' alignment, I am sad to see more examples of existing concepts being retconned out of the setting (True Neutral Clerics of Shelyn here) though I realize that is the price we have to pay to get Core deities illustrating the greater variety of alignment restrictions

Concerning anathemas, I knew this was going to incite anathema threads, si no surprise here.

I think the debate about accepting surrender and not striking first show just how much murderhobos' rules of efficiency as well as the wish to trick the Paladin into falling are deeply ingrained in our communal mindset

I once roleplayed a TN Ranger slowly changing his ways to become a LG Paladin of Erastil. It was a difficult but rewarding experience to decide to not shoot first at unknown ugly creatures slowly waking up from stasis, even though it went against all my PC's instincts.


Huh. That's pretty clever. Calling powers "spells" and just saying "those spells can only be cast by clerics of shelyn". However if it was in spells then I'd expect it to be in the spells chapter and not the class chapter (I am assuming class powers are defined in the class section and spells have their own chapter to be defined in).


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John Lynch 106 wrote:
Huh. That's pretty clever. Calling powers "spells" and just saying "those spells can only be cast by clerics of shelyn". However if it was in spells then I'd expect it to be in the spells chapter and not the class chapter (I am assuming class powers are defined in the class section and spells have their own chapter to be defined in).

I assume the opposite. Powers are going to be laid out just like every other spell, might as well toss them all into the same chapter so they're all together.

This also allows for the possibility that, say, a cleric of the luck domain and a sorcerer of the protean bloodline could both share the Tempt Fate power. Or perhaps the Shifter class, Draconic and Abyssal bloodlines, and a shapeshifting ranger archetype might all grant a Claws power that is first written in the core rulebook and simply referred to by later supplements when the new classes and archetypes are slowly rolled out.

Edit: Doing it like I'm assuming also makes using a class agnostic resource like "spell-points", whatever they eventually call them (I still vote mana) a little more sense. Because domain charges, blood points, school marks, Stunning Fist uses, etc did work well enough, but calling all of these the same thing lets them print the power once and let every class that uses it refer to that same entry without needing to say "You also gain rounds of bardic music as if you were a bard of your same level."

(Although I'm guessing basic inspire rounds will still be tracked separately, much like channeling, but everything else you can spend a round of bardic music on might convert to the spell-point system).

Liberty's Edge

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graystone wrote:
Igwilly wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
See here for some information on Playtest Paladin code. It's long and I'm on my phone so can't copy over right now.
Clarifying, expanding and refining the paladin's code seems a much better solution to many problems people seem to face than to scrap the entire alignment thing :)
For me, every paladin issue was about alignment: the code itself has been a minor irritant at best. So for me, a cleaned up code wouldn't mean much.

While I don't like most of the mechanics, the alignment used by the Palladium's games(here you can find a condensed description) is fairly good.

They are somewhat similar to D&D, but they give examples citing famous characters from fiction that are examples of that alignment (in the books, not in the condensed description) and give a set of rules that define reasonably well what a character will and will not do.
Adapting that system for D&D in your home games isn't difficult (a paladin is a principled character).
Naturally if the player or the GM want to generate problems they aren't foolproof. But if the aim is to create problems there is no system that will cure that.

Liberty's Edge

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Benjamin Harlow wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:

Imagine a cleric of Shelyn sees someone peacefully destroying art and can only stop them by striking first.

** spoiler omitted **

The hooligan destroying art has struck first thus I get to fulfill my righteous calling of destroying the ugly of this world.

Also can you peacefully destroy something?

"My religion say that worshiping idols is evil. destroy all images of gods, even our God." That is something that both Christians and Muslim have done.

That was done withing the boundary of the law and out of righteous indignation, not anger.


I'm now curious on what my Cleric of Iomedae will look like when converted to 2nd Edition. It'll be fun to see what changes or different options would be available to him in the new system.


Hrodwulf wrote:
I'm now curious on what my Cleric of Iomedae will look like when converted to 2nd Edition. It'll be fun to see what changes or different options would be available to him in the new system.

Hopefully a Mini-smite power! BAM EVIL!


ChibiNyan wrote:
Hrodwulf wrote:
I'm now curious on what my Cleric of Iomedae will look like when converted to 2nd Edition. It'll be fun to see what changes or different options would be available to him in the new system.
Hopefully a Mini-smite power! BAM EVIL!

EVIL


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Hopefully Shelynites will get Disarm, Trip, Grapple, and other martial combat options to prevent murdering folks.


ChibiNyan wrote:
Hopefully a Mini-smite power! BAM EVIL!

BAM UNDEAD would be my preferred route. But mostly because when I play him we tend to end up in some Undead heavy campaigns (and it fit his personality). But BAM EVIL! would be more useful/universal.


Hrodwulf wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
Hopefully a Mini-smite power! BAM EVIL!
BAM UNDEAD would be my preferred route. But mostly because when I play him we tend to end up in some Undead heavy campaigns (and it fit his personality). But BAM EVIL! would be more useful/universal.

Leave that one for Sarenbae and Pharasma!


ChibiNyan wrote:
Hrodwulf wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
Hopefully a Mini-smite power! BAM EVIL!
BAM UNDEAD would be my preferred route. But mostly because when I play him we tend to end up in some Undead heavy campaigns (and it fit his personality). But BAM EVIL! would be more useful/universal.
Leave that one for Sarenbae and Pharasma!

Alright but I'm keeping my +1 Longsword vs. Undead! It has sentimental value.

On a more serious note, as a player that likes to draw up a bunch of random characters to have on hand should by current character die, it's going to be a lot of fun building all new characters for this edition, even if my group doesn't get around to running 2nd for a few years still.


dysartes wrote:
Mark said up-thread that Perform and Diplomacy (and I think Medicine) are already whatever the equivalent of Class Skills are for Clerics.

I was using broad examples. If those specific cases don't apply, awesome; the idea overall should still hold true. "If a deity has two or three major concepts, let their cleric pick the representative skill they gain instead of requiring just one if their built-in skill list doesn't handle it."

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