Fighter Class Preview

Monday, March 19, 2018

Over the past 2 weeks, we've tried to give you a sense of what Pathfinder Second Edition is all about, but now it's time to delve into some details on the classes. From now until the game releases in August, we'll go through the classes one by one, pausing now and then to look at various rules and systems. Today, let's take a look at one of the most foundational classes in the game: the fighter.

The fighter was one of the first classes we redesigned, alongside the rogue, cleric, and wizard. We knew that we wanted these four to work well in concert with each other, with the fighter taking on the role of primary combat character, good at taking damage and even better at dealing damage. The fighter has to be the best with weapons, using his class options to give him an edge with his weapons of choice. The fighter also has to be mobile, able to get into the fray quickly and hold the line, allowing less melee-oriented characters time to get into position and use their abilities without have to fend off constant attacks.

Let's start by looking at some of the features shared by all fighters.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

First up is attacks of opportunity. This feature allows you to spend your reaction to strike a creature within your reach that tries to manipulate an object (like drinking a potion), make a ranged attack, or move away from you. This attack is made with a –2 penalty, but it doesn't take the multiple attack penalty from other strikes you attempt on your turn. Other classes can get this ability—and numerous monsters will as well—but only the fighter starts with it a core feature. Fighters also have feat choices that can make their attacks of opportunity more effective.

Next up, at 3rd level, you gain weapon mastery, which increases your proficiency rank with one group of weapons to master. Your proficiency rank increases to legendary at 13th level, making you truly the best with the weapons of your choice. At 19th level, you become a legend with all simple and martial weapons!

The fighter gets a number of other buffs and increases as well, but one I want to call out in particular is battlefield surveyor, which increases your Perception proficiency rank to master (you start as an expert), and gives you an additional +1 bonus when you roll Perception for initiative, helping you be first into the fight!

As mentioned in the blog last week, the real meat behind the classes is in their feats and (as of this post), the fighter has the largest selection of feats out of all the classes in the game! Let's take a look at some.

You've probably already heard about Sudden Charge. You can pick up this feat at 1st level. When you spend two actions on it, this feat allows you to move up to twice your speed and deliver a single strike. There's no need to move in a straight line and no AC penalty—you just move and attack! This feat lets the fighter jump right into the thick of things and make an immediate impact.

Next let's take a look at Power Attack. This feat allows you to spend two actions to make a single strike that deals an extra die of damage. Instead of trading accuracy for damage (as it used to work), you now trade out an action you could have used for a far less accurate attack to get more power on a roll that is more likely to hit.

As you go up in level, some of the feats really allow you to mix things up. Take the 4th-level feat Quick Reversal, for example. If you are being flanked and you miss with your second or third attack against one of the flankers, this feat lets you redirect the attack to the other target and reroll it, possibly turning a miss into a hit!

We've talked before about how fun and tactical shields are in the game. To recap, you take an action to raise your shield and get its Armor Class and touch Armor Class bonuses, and then you can block incoming damage with a reaction while the shield is raised. At 6th level, fighters can take the feat Shield Warden, which allows them to use their shield to block the damage taken by an adjacent ally. At 8th, they can even get an extra reaction each turn, just to use shield block one additional time. (And yes, they can spend this extra reaction on another use of Shield Warden.) At 14th level, a fighter can use their shield to protect themself from dragon's breath and fireballs, gaining their shield's bonus to Reflex saves.

The fighter also has a wide variety of options with ranged weapons, allowing you to deal more damage up close or fire more than one arrow at a time. I foresee a lot of fighters taking Debilitating Shot, which causes a foe to be slowed if the attack hits (causing it to lose one action on its next turn).

And all this is a small sample. We've made a conscious effort to give fighters a number of paths they can pursue using their feats: focusing on shields, swinging a two-handed weapon, fighting with two weapons, making ranged attacks, and fighting defensively. These paths are pretty open, allowing you to mix and match with ease to create a fighter that matches your play style.

The goal here is to give you a variety of tools to deal with the situations and encounters you are bound to face. You might walk into a fight with your bow and open with Double Shot, allowing you to fire a pair of arrows into the two nearest foes, only to swap over to using a greataxe when the rest surround you, making an attack against all enemies in your reach with Whirlwind Strike! It all comes down to the type of fighter you want to play.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design

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Tags: Fighters Pathfinder Playtest Valeros Wayne Reynolds
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Paizo Employee Designer

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Lady Firebird wrote:
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way.

Funny you used that exact choice of words there. Remember this moment when we inevitably preview the magic item that makes this seem prescient.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way.
Funny you used that exact choice of words there. Remember this moment when we inevitably preview the magic item that makes this seem prescient.

Yessssss.

And in return, I give you this amazing tune (Kronos Megalos) from the Wrath of the Titans soundtrack. Listen to this and imagine while doing so a legendary warrior wielding that legendary +5 weapon against some mythic foe.

I so hope this game gives me the chance to be Perseus throwing down with Titans....


Lady Firebird wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Conversely, a Greatsword of medium size, assuming PF1 damage dice, is 2D6. A +5 Greatsword does 12D6 damage (2D6 base + 10D6 enhancements. You're basically adding CL 10 PF1 Fireball damage to every attack you make), that's massive! Now imagine if you were Enlarged with Lead Blades and/or Impact. That becomes a base 4D6, with a scaling of up to 24D6! A greatsword that does 2D6+5, with a maximum damage of 17, and an average damage of 12, will be infinitely weaker than a greatsword that does 12D6, with a maximum of 72 damage, and an average damage of 42. And this isn't even including static modifiers from Strength and other effects, which increase these numbers even further.
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way. It feels a lot more impactful and really sells that these things aren't just another magic item, only slightly better than a +4 greatsword. This is a powerful artifact enhanced to such a degree that in the hands of a great warrior it might fell giants, dragons, even gods.

Those Flaming enchantments better be super amazing if they want to compete with the +X. Probably they won't compete for the same spot anymore. Just hope they remain competitive either way. *Stares at Starfinder*


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I still would really like to know how many total proficiencies the Fighter class gets at first level. Split it however you want, just please start giving us something so that as other classes are previewed we can start comparing their proficiencies. Oh, and give us the equivalent information as part of the other previews.


ChibiNyan wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Conversely, a Greatsword of medium size, assuming PF1 damage dice, is 2D6. A +5 Greatsword does 12D6 damage (2D6 base + 10D6 enhancements. You're basically adding CL 10 PF1 Fireball damage to every attack you make), that's massive! Now imagine if you were Enlarged with Lead Blades and/or Impact. That becomes a base 4D6, with a scaling of up to 24D6! A greatsword that does 2D6+5, with a maximum damage of 17, and an average damage of 12, will be infinitely weaker than a greatsword that does 12D6, with a maximum of 72 damage, and an average damage of 42. And this isn't even including static modifiers from Strength and other effects, which increase these numbers even further.
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way. It feels a lot more impactful and really sells that these things aren't just another magic item, only slightly better than a +4 greatsword. This is a powerful artifact enhanced to such a degree that in the hands of a great warrior it might fell giants, dragons, even gods.
Those Flaming enchantments better be super amazing if they want to compete with the +X. Probably they won't compete for the same spot anymore. Just hope they remain competitive either way. *Stares at Starfinder*

I'd say that if they better averaged the bonus granted by the property, combined with removing the need for +X amounts to bypass DR (which was so important in the late game when DR was basically every fight), that Flaming properties would be much more valued.

Boosting the elemental properties to +D8 would make them more valuable than an extra +X for lower damage dice weapons like Daggers and Rapiers, even if situational due to how resistances will presumably work.

Conversely, some of the better effects not working on the stronger weapons (i.e. weapons with the Agile property as one example) would be a great balancing point for determining whether certain weapons could have certain properties. (We already distinguish this with properties from PF1, like Impact and Dueling.)


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way.
Funny you used that exact choice of words there. Remember this moment when we inevitably preview the magic item that makes this seem prescient.

Are you naming grades of weapon/armor enchantments? We won't actually be seeing "+5 greatswords" but instead "meteoric greatswords?"


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Stone Dog wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way.
Funny you used that exact choice of words there. Remember this moment when we inevitably preview the magic item that makes this seem prescient.
Are you naming grades of weapon/armor enchantments? We won't actually be seeing "+5 greatswords" but instead "meteoric greatswords?"

Hm. Brings me back to Diablo, and a lot of happy memories.

"Burning Greatsword of the Meteor" does have a fun ring to it!


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Conversely, a Greatsword of medium size, assuming PF1 damage dice, is 2D6. A +5 Greatsword does 12D6 damage (2D6 base + 10D6 enhancements. You're basically adding CL 10 PF1 Fireball damage to every attack you make), that's massive! Now imagine if you were Enlarged with Lead Blades and/or Impact. That becomes a base 4D6, with a scaling of up to 24D6! A greatsword that does 2D6+5, with a maximum damage of 17, and an average damage of 12, will be infinitely weaker than a greatsword that does 12D6, with a maximum of 72 damage, and an average damage of 42. And this isn't even including static modifiers from Strength and other effects, which increase these numbers even further.
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way. It feels a lot more impactful and really sells that these things aren't just another magic item, only slightly better than a +4 greatsword. This is a powerful artifact enhanced to such a degree that in the hands of a great warrior it might fell giants, dragons, even gods.
Those Flaming enchantments better be super amazing if they want to compete with the +X. Probably they won't compete for the same spot anymore. Just hope they remain competitive either way. *Stares at Starfinder*

I'd say that if they better averaged the bonus granted by the property, combined with removing the need for +X amounts to bypass DR (which was so important in the late game when DR was basically every fight), that Flaming properties would be much more valued.

Boosting the elemental properties to +D8 would make them more valuable than an extra +X for lower damage dice weapons like Daggers and Rapiers, even if situational due to how resistances will presumably work.

Conversely, some of the better effects not working on the stronger...

The +1 bonus to attack rolls is just way too important this edition, though. Even if Flaming was 2d8 I'd still take the +1 probably, for the crit shenanigans!


ChibiNyan wrote:
The +1 bonus to attack rolls is just way too important this edition, though. Even if Flaming was 2d8 I'd still take the +1 probably, for the crit shenanigans!

Unless all bonus dice get multiplied on a crit in this edition, which is actually what I expect since that's what they did in Starfinder and because of exactly what you just said. Flaming damage would just be worse in the long run if it didn't scale like the bonus dice from simple +1.


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Perhaps things like "Flaming" are themselves no longer +1 equivalent, but instead something like, for example, a +3 weapon having 3 "slots" that can be filled with enhancements like flaming or keen, with some enhancements occupying multiple slots. Getting your +1 sword made into a flaming +1 sword could thereby be made to cost a lot less than getting it made into a +2 sword, which would encourage people to use more "fun" enhancements instead of just spending their cash on getting a bigger number.


Lady Firebird wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way.
Funny you used that exact choice of words there. Remember this moment when we inevitably preview the magic item that makes this seem prescient.
Are you naming grades of weapon/armor enchantments? We won't actually be seeing "+5 greatswords" but instead "meteoric greatswords?"
Hm. Brings me back to Diablo, and a lot of happy memories.

As long as we don't see broken things like King's Sword of Haste and Godly Plate of the Whale, I think it'll be a nice change of pace...


I'm of two minds when it comes to +1/+2 dealing extra weapon dice damage.

The only thing I worry about with weapons is making them too equivalent with spells. I'm all for making the weapon damage dice more relevant, but I worry about 10d6 per hit weapon attacks. Even though I realise it's equivalent to 2d6+28, there is a level of too much homogenization by having such similar expressions for spells and weapons. Different rules for different things was a big part of the Pathfinder philosophy and it's a big part of what drew me in from 4th ed. I'd hate to see Pathfinder 2nd edition move too close to D&D 4th ed.


John Lynch 106 wrote:

I'm of two minds when it comes to +1/+2 dealing extra weapon dice damage.

The only thing I worry about with weapons is making them too equivalent with spells. I'm all for making the weapon damage dice more relevant, but I worry about 10d6 per hit weapon attacks. Even though I realise it's equivalent to 2d6+28, there is a level of too much homogenization by having such similar expressions for spells and weapons. Different rules for different things was a big part of the Pathfinder philosophy and it's a big part of what drew me in from 4th ed. I'd hate to see Pathfinder 2nd edition move too close to D&D 4th ed.

I feel like a good way to help mitigate that concern is that weapons doing 10d6 is only going to come up when +4 Greatswords or similar weapons, like the Earthbreaker, are in play - you still have things like, say, a +3 Longsword (3d8) or a +4 Falchion (10d4) or a +2 Greataxe (3d12), so damage dice will likely not be as homogeneous in practice as it might seem on paper, especially when you keep in mind damage modifiers like Strength are still in play.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
John Lynch 106 wrote:

I'm of two minds when it comes to +1/+2 dealing extra weapon dice damage.

The only thing I worry about with weapons is making them too equivalent with spells. I'm all for making the weapon damage dice more relevant, but I worry about 10d6 per hit weapon attacks. Even though I realise it's equivalent to 2d6+28, there is a level of too much homogenization by having such similar expressions for spells and weapons. Different rules for different things was a big part of the Pathfinder philosophy and it's a big part of what drew me in from 4th ed. I'd hate to see Pathfinder 2nd edition move too close to D&D 4th ed.

I can understand that concern. The thing is... it takes time to keep track of and add up all of those numbers.

For instance. I have a player who uses magical throwing axes (with Returning and Called on them). She has four axes and when Hasted can get seven attacks a turn. If she's got a Preferred Enemy she gets +4 to hit and damage. Bardic Song adds another +4 to that. The axes are +1 to hit normally. If she goes for Deadly Aim then she gets another +10. And if she's within 30 feet it's another +1. Add in Strength and that's another +3 thanks to Bull's Strength. So she might be going for 1d6+23 per attack. And as she has a level of rogue, if she caught the person flat-footed then that's an additional 1d6, and she may cast a fire spell adding another 1d6 to two of the axes... and I'm pulling out a calculator and determining "okay, four shots hit so that's +92 and they were flatfooted and three of the burning axes hit so that's 11d6..." and I'm taking 5-10 minutes trying to figure out just how much damage she did because my players can't add worth a damn.

You know what? I'd so prefer to just have them toss on extra d6s to those shots. And sure, that player might be tossing down 19d6 or more before adding bonuses for preferred enemy and strength but we're playing over Roll20 anyway so we let the computer do the rolling and I'm not trying to give everyone their bonuses through Hero Labs and all that. And I say this as someone who detested 4th Edition and refused to play or run it.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Yikes! If that's the case, that +5 greatsword is going to hit like a meteor. But then, you are talking about one of the most powerful enchanted weapons to ever grace the world, so ... I rather like it that way.
Funny you used that exact choice of words there. Remember this moment when we inevitably preview the magic item that makes this seem prescient.
Are you naming grades of weapon/armor enchantments? We won't actually be seeing "+5 greatswords" but instead "meteoric greatswords?"
Hm. Brings me back to Diablo, and a lot of happy memories.
As long as we don't see broken things like King's Sword of Haste and Godly Plate of the Whale, I think it'll be a nice change of pace...

You kiddin'? I think it'd be awesome to have a Godly Plate of the Whale or something like that. It's fun, evocative, and crazy. Also, it's what every high-tier Warrior wants in her collection!


Tangent101 wrote:
I can understand that concern. The thing is... it takes time to keep track of and add up all of those numbers.

I've played an Eldritch Knight (as in, Fighter X/Wizard X/Eldritch Knight 9. I don't remember how many levels the base classes had) so I get that it can be difficult keeping track of all the bonuses that can be combined and turned on and off, etc.

Tangent101 wrote:
I'm taking 5-10 minutes trying to figure out just how much damage she did because my players can't add worth a damn.

All of these things typically come online online gradually (I came into the game around level 9-12 or so, so I didn't have a gradual increase). And once you calculate them once upon leveling you can have the most common combinations written up and simply refer to the relevant line to see what your modifiers are for attack and damage. I am also not the most mathematically inclined person (in fact D&D and Pathfinder have helped develop my arithmetic skills considerably). But nowhere do I need a calculator and nor is it taking me 5-10 minutes to add up my numbers.

Tangent101 wrote:
You know what? I'd so prefer to just have them toss on extra d6s to those shots. And sure, that player might be tossing down 19d6 or more before adding bonuses for preferred enemy and strength but we're playing over Roll20 anyway so we let the computer do the rolling and I'm not trying to give everyone their bonuses through Hero Labs and all that. And I say this as someone who detested 4th Edition and refused to play or run it.

Maybe it's different for me because I did play 4th edition (I played in 3 home campaigns, two of which got up to level 17). I was a big champion of 4th ed. But eventually the lines blurred so much that there was no difference between martials and casters. If Pathfinder 2nd edition martials are throwing around so many dice that you'd swear they were casting a fireball, there is a good chance it's going to feel like there's no difference between them and a D&D 3.5e/5e warlock who gets to cast X number of spells at-will.

I'm not saying it's guaranteed to turn out like that (after all Rogues roll 10d6 per attack at 20th level and no-one's accusing them of throwing around fireballs). But it certainly can. Ultimately it'll take actually playing the game to see how it turns out (and I completely realise my preference is a subjective and personal one. It's simply one I developed after many years of 4th ed and Pathfinder play).

Paizo Employee Designer

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Oh man, I just got home from my PF2 playtest game. In our third fight, Luis's fighter Randyll, a master of Intimidation, intimidated a pukwudgie with his battle cry, two-hand smacked the pukwudgie then shifted his bastard sword so he could smack and grab the thing (eating the spine damage and critically succeeding against the poison), and on his next turn, he grabbed it by the neck and started shaking it and critically succeeded on his Intimidation check, thus ending the fight with his social skills, as the pukwudgie ordered its undead to back off and let the party explore unimpeded. Luis also had an ability such that the pukwudgie will never inform his dullahan boss because he's too terrified of Randyll.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Oh man, I just got home from my PF2 playtest game. In our third fight, Luis's fighter Randyll, a master of Intimidation, intimidated a pukwudgie with his battle cry, two-hand smacked the pukwudgie then shifted his bastard sword so he could smack and grab the thing (eating the spine damage and critically succeeding against the poison), and on his next turn, he grabbed it by the neck and started shaking it and critically succeeded on his Intimidation check, thus ending the fight with his social skills, as the pukwudgie ordered its undead to back off and let the party explore unimpeded. Luis also had an ability such that the pukwudgie will never inform his dullahan boss because he's too terrified of Randyll.

Sounds so cool. I can't wait to get to test it out!

Are Monks awesome? Please tell me Monks are awesome.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Lady Firebird wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Oh man, I just got home from my PF2 playtest game. In our third fight, Luis's fighter Randyll, a master of Intimidation, intimidated a pukwudgie with his battle cry, two-hand smacked the pukwudgie then shifted his bastard sword so he could smack and grab the thing (eating the spine damage and critically succeeding against the poison), and on his next turn, he grabbed it by the neck and started shaking it and critically succeeded on his Intimidation check, thus ending the fight with his social skills, as the pukwudgie ordered its undead to back off and let the party explore unimpeded. Luis also had an ability such that the pukwudgie will never inform his dullahan boss because he's too terrified of Randyll.

Sounds so cool. I can't wait to get to test it out!

Are Monks awesome? Please tell me Monks are awesome.

Monks are pretty slick. This week, we had fighter, monk, barbarian, bard, all at level 10. A really solid team, all around, if a little melee heavy, but they're exceptional at bringing the hurt to their foes.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lady Firebird wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Oh man, I just got home from my PF2 playtest game. In our third fight, Luis's fighter Randyll, a master of Intimidation, intimidated a pukwudgie with his battle cry, two-hand smacked the pukwudgie then shifted his bastard sword so he could smack and grab the thing (eating the spine damage and critically succeeding against the poison), and on his next turn, he grabbed it by the neck and started shaking it and critically succeeded on his Intimidation check, thus ending the fight with his social skills, as the pukwudgie ordered its undead to back off and let the party explore unimpeded. Luis also had an ability such that the pukwudgie will never inform his dullahan boss because he's too terrified of Randyll.

Sounds so cool. I can't wait to get to test it out!

Are Monks awesome? Please tell me Monks are awesome.

Monks are pretty slick. This week, we had fighter, monk, barbarian, bard, all at level 10. A really solid team, all around, if a little melee heavy, but they're exceptional at bringing the hurt to their foes.

Do they get to keep the cool esoteric powers and stuff? Oh, man, I'm so not patient. All of this sounds pretty cool, and I love the description of Randyll's terrorizing of the poor pukwudgie!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Monks are pretty slick. This week, we had fighter, monk, barbarian, bard, all at level 10. A really solid team, all around, if a little melee heavy, but they're exceptional at bringing the hurt to their foes.

Have any of them taking a theme/paragon path/prestige class/variant multiclassing/something something healer chassis? Or are they able to function without anyone playing the cleric? Have they had to face off against ability damage or other (non HP) areas that require a healer?

Paizo Employee Designer

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John Lynch 106 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Monks are pretty slick. This week, we had fighter, monk, barbarian, bard, all at level 10. A really solid team, all around, if a little melee heavy, but they're exceptional at bringing the hurt to their foes.
Have any of them taking a theme/paragon path/prestige class/variant multiclassing/something something healer chassis? Or are they able to function without anyone playing the cleric? Have they had to face off against ability damage or other (non HP) areas that require a healer?

Well the bard isn't a slouch at healing, and neither is the barbarian, despite some AoE negative energy and some weird interdimensional grubs that attacked them when they entered the demiplane. Thanks to wraiths and a mananangal blood drain, the monk has a mild drain situation, but they managed to weather the wyvern and pukwudgie poison fine.


Mark Seifter wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Monks are pretty slick. This week, we had fighter, monk, barbarian, bard, all at level 10. A really solid team, all around, if a little melee heavy, but they're exceptional at bringing the hurt to their foes.
Have any of them taking a theme/paragon path/prestige class/variant multiclassing/something something healer chassis? Or are they able to function without anyone playing the cleric? Have they had to face off against ability damage or other (non HP) areas that require a healer?
Well the bard isn't a slouch at healing, and neither is the barbarian, despite some AoE negative energy and some weird interdimensional grubs that attacked them when they entered the demiplane. Thanks to wraiths and a mananangal blood drain, the monk has a mild drain situation, but they managed to weather the wyvern and pukwudgie poison fine.

When you say "and neither is the barbarian [a slouch at healing]", are you implying that they will be able to heal themselves, similarly to the P1e Renewed Vigor Rage Power?

Paizo Employee Designer

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Friendly Rogue wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Monks are pretty slick. This week, we had fighter, monk, barbarian, bard, all at level 10. A really solid team, all around, if a little melee heavy, but they're exceptional at bringing the hurt to their foes.
Have any of them taking a theme/paragon path/prestige class/variant multiclassing/something something healer chassis? Or are they able to function without anyone playing the cleric? Have they had to face off against ability damage or other (non HP) areas that require a healer?
Well the bard isn't a slouch at healing, and neither is the barbarian, despite some AoE negative energy and some weird interdimensional grubs that attacked them when they entered the demiplane. Thanks to wraiths and a mananangal blood drain, the monk has a mild drain situation, but they managed to weather the wyvern and pukwudgie poison fine.
When you say "and neither is the barbarian [a slouch at healing]", are you implying that they will be able to heal themselves, similarly to the P1e Renewed Vigor Rage Power?

No, she's the same (semi-famous now?) barbarian from my other post about healing who (for no really barbarian-related reason but due to the player's other choices for the character) has some serious healing.


Mark Seifter wrote:


No, she's the same (semi-famous now?) barbarian from my other post about healing who (for no really barbarian-related reason but due to the player's other choices for the character) has some serious healing.

Ah, my mistake. I've been primarily looking at the blog posts so I missed the thread in question.

Paizo Employee Developer

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Well the bard isn't a slouch at healing, and neither is the barbarian, despite some AoE negative energy and some weird interdimensional grubs that attacked them when they entered the demiplane. Thanks to wraiths and a mananangal blood drain, the monk has a mild drain situation, but they managed to weather the wyvern and pukwudgie poison fine.

Melvoin the bard is me! And a thrilling session all around. Yep, I just decided to drop my available spells into healing, patched everyone up after a rough fight, and then switched to my melee weapon for the next couple of fights. I was pretty satisfied with my little bard's melee performance, which is saying something when he's accompanied by a barbarian, a monk, and a fighter!


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
In PF2, both weapons have +1 to their attack roll, but add +1D to their damage roll (D = weapon dice total).

Where did you get this information??

Paizo Employee Designer

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Ron Lundeen wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Well the bard isn't a slouch at healing, and neither is the barbarian, despite some AoE negative energy and some weird interdimensional grubs that attacked them when they entered the demiplane. Thanks to wraiths and a mananangal blood drain, the monk has a mild drain situation, but they managed to weather the wyvern and pukwudgie poison fine.
Melvoin the bard is me! And a thrilling session all around. Yep, I just decided to drop my available spells into healing, patched everyone up after a rough fight, and then switched to my melee weapon for the next couple of fights. I was pretty satisfied with my little bard's melee performance, which is saying something when he's accompanied by a barbarian, a monk, and a fighter!

The best part was his bard didn't fall from grace at all, not even one time.

Note to readers because I need to put a disclaimer for humor over the internet: bards can't actually do that.

Sovereign Court

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I’m pretty sure bards can lose their Bard College scholarships, though.


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KingOfAnything wrote:
I’m pretty sure bards can lose their Bard College scholarships, though.

Thanks to the new downtime rules though they can get a loan for the college fees. Although unfortunately if they roll poorly on the city encounter table they can have all of their magic items repossessed due to late payments for their loan fees.


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Paladins fall from grace, bards fall from Graceland.

Paizo Employee Designer

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John Lynch 106 wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
I’m pretty sure bards can lose their Bard College scholarships, though.
Thanks to the new downtime rules though they can get a loan for the college fees. Although unfortunately if they roll poorly on the city encounter table they can have all of their magic items repossessed due to late payments for their loan fees.

The bards are not a-mused.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Oh man, I just got home from my PF2 playtest game. In our third fight, Luis's fighter Randyll, a master of Intimidation, intimidated a pukwudgie with his battle cry, two-hand smacked the pukwudgie then shifted his bastard sword so he could smack and grab the thing (eating the spine damage and critically succeeding against the poison), and on his next turn, he grabbed it by the neck and started shaking it and critically succeeded on his Intimidation check, thus ending the fight with his social skills, as the pukwudgie ordered its undead to back off and let the party explore unimpeded. Luis also had an ability such that the pukwudgie will never inform his dullahan boss because he's too terrified of Randyll.

.

Are you trying to convince me to loiter outside of your office your not that far away I need playtest!!!


Since crits seem to revolve around 20's or getting 10 greater than AC, are crit builds even possible? It seems like being a big hitter and being a crit fisher is now the same. Just build/increase your to hit bonus. The cool thing about crit fishers is that you could crit and not really need as high of a to hit bonus. I could be wrong though. Will PF2 have an equivalent? A way to lower the 10+ barrier to crits? Like weapons that are more critable than others like before?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
42nfl19 wrote:
Since crits seem to revolve around 20's or getting 10 greater than AC, are crit builds even possible? It seems like being a big hitter and being a crit fisher is now the same. Just build/increase your to hit bonus. The cool thing about crit fishers is that you could crit and not really need as high of a to hit bonus. I could be wrong though. Will PF2 have an equivalent? A way to lower the 10+ barrier to crits? Like weapons that are more critable than others like before?

So Agile weapons lower your penalty for additional attacks beyond the first, so rather than -5/-10, it's -4/-8, which makes it more likely you'll crit with later attacks. I assume there'll be other feats that assist with the accuracy penalties for those later iteratives. Agile weapons tend to be lighter weapons (daggers, rapiers etc), so crit-fishing is still a viable strategy, as you attack more accurately more often you get those good, good crits in.


Anyone else notice that shifting your grip seemed to be an action?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
MR. H wrote:
Anyone else notice that shifting your grip seemed to be an action?

Depends on if “smack and grab” is one action or two. I’m guessing two, with shifting grip as a non-action, but you could be right.


Do fighters in PF2 have a better will save than in PF1's core rulebook? Because it occurs to me that if fighters already have 2 rather nice saves, and they get a big bonus on the third one then that 14th level power might be the equivalent of having all good saves.

Also, is the 14 level save boost passive (simply having the shield out gives you the bonus), only available when the shield is raised, only available if a reaction is spent (similar to blocking a fireball), or something else?


Crit fishing could potentially still work if they want it. Feats and abilities that expand the range as already explained to us, where a natural 20 is automatically a critical if the roll would at least hit.

So say, you have abilities giving you a threat range of 18-20. You roll a natural 18 and only beat their AC by 2... But it's still a critical hit even though you didn't beat by 10, because you at least hit them.

Not saying that's what they ARE doing, just that this would be a natural way of making critical fishing still viable in PF2E. If that is a build type that they want to support, and they haven't decided to get rid of it.


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they could also lower the amount you need to beat the ac with. So you might need 9 above or 8 for example.

you could also increase your hit chance to give you more crits.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Zautos' wrote:

they could also lower the amount you need to beat the ac with. So you might need 9 above or 8 for example.

you could also increase your hit chance to give you more crits.

I think it would have to be lowering to 8 but that would make an interesting feat choice over something that gave +1 to hit. It wouldn't increase the amount of times you hit, but it would double the feat effect on crits.


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I feel like one of the advantages of the "clear by 10" threshold is that it's really easy to figure out immediately. As in "Is this ten more or ten less than the number I figured I needed before I rolled the dice"- having a decimal system makes this really easy. So making the threshold change does complicate this a little bit, which is probably not ideal.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Friendly Rogue wrote:
[...]
No, she's the same (semi-famous now?) barbarian from my other post about healing who (for no really barbarian-related reason but due to the player's other choices for the character) has some serious healing.

Do anyone have a link? Saw many mentions, but didn't find the original post.


Elfteiroh wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Friendly Rogue wrote:
[...]
No, she's the same (semi-famous now?) barbarian from my other post about healing who (for no really barbarian-related reason but due to the player's other choices for the character) has some serious healing.
Do anyone have a link? Saw many mentions, but didn't find the original post.

A wide variety of classes have some form of healing available. linked


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Elfteiroh wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Friendly Rogue wrote:
[...]
No, she's the same (semi-famous now?) barbarian from my other post about healing who (for no really barbarian-related reason but due to the player's other choices for the character) has some serious healing.
Do anyone have a link? Saw many mentions, but didn't find the original post.

Here it is.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

*eyes that* Hmm. I wonder if there's a way to make some of that optional. This "resonance" aspect sounds suspiciously 4th Ed. D&D to me and I'd rather healing either be done through magic or bedcare, rather than some innate ability of classes.


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It's been mentioned repeatedly that some of those builds (including the Barbarian) heal through means that have nothing to do with their class's abilities. They're likely connected to the many non-class feature options we're getting in PF2.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
KingOfNinjas wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:

[...]

Do anyone have a link? Saw many mentions, but didn't find the original post.
A wide variety of classes have some form of healing available. linked
David knott 242 wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:
[...]
Here it is.

Thanks. I was reading it when you posted, (just found it) but thanks, may be useful for others too! :D


Arachnofiend wrote:
It's been mentioned repeatedly that some of those builds (including the Barbarian) heal through means that have nothing to do with their class's abilities. They're likely connected to the many non-class feature options we're getting in PF2.

Here's a relevant thought: Now that people don't have to be a certain class to heal, they instead select certain options to heal.

This changes the "Timmy the Cleric" paradigm to "Timmy the Healer of any other class". So if people just were sick of making Clerics mandatory, good job, it appears successfully done.

If people felt like having a healer whatsoever in a party was mandatory, they would still be unsatisfied and as such would not view this as a fix.

Because now instead of "Timmy, you need to play the Cleric," it's "Timmy, you need to play the Healer." To numerous players, these sentences are synonymous and change nothing.

Dark Archive

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
It's been mentioned repeatedly that some of those builds (including the Barbarian) heal through means that have nothing to do with their class's abilities. They're likely connected to the many non-class feature options we're getting in PF2.

Here's a relevant thought: Now that people don't have to be a certain class to heal, they instead select certain options to heal.

This changes the "Timmy the Cleric" paradigm to "Timmy the Healer of any other class". So if people just were sick of making Clerics mandatory, good job, it appears successfully done.

If people felt like having a healer whatsoever in a party was mandatory, they would still be unsatisfied and as such would not view this as a fix.

Because now instead of "Timmy, you need to play the Cleric," it's "Timmy, you need to play the Healer." To numerous players, these sentences are synonymous and change nothing.

This depends very extensively on how much one needs to invest to be a passable healer. If it is relatively easy to get some passable healing then people can play the characters and classes they want while some of them invest a little bit in healing options without having to build a healing dedicated and focused character. In which case, Sharon who is telling Timmy he needs to make a healer can instead use one of her feats to add healing options herself without really detracting all that much from her Beat 'em up Barbarian qualities. Especially if these options largely come from ancestry, skill, or general feats as it wouldn't affect her class options at all.

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