First Look at the Pathfinder Playtest

Tuesday, March 6, 2018

Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

New, but the Same

Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.

Building a Character

It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.

Playing the Game

We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!

Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!

Monsters and Treasure

The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.

We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!

What's Next?

There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!

Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!

We Need You!

All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design

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Tags: Pathfinder Playtest
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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Starfinder minus ships and advanced tech rules.. hmm?..

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

15 people marked this as a favorite.
Doggan wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

There's Planar Adventures, and that's it.

I wonder how poorly it's going to sell.

We're not sure! The book is intentionally a bit rules-light and all of the setting lore and plane descriptions will work hand-in-hand with the new edition, so to tell you the truth I am really not too worried about it.

I think it will do fine. It's a remarkably cool book.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Anguish wrote:


The way I read it, Jason is talking about choice/options in terms of fluff, while you're talking about choice/options in terms of crunch. But we'll have to wait and see.
This system will give you both. If you want to play the wizard that is good and beating things up, I promise you that there are a number of ways you can build that character.

Okie doke. Personally, I'm all about the fiddly bits, so tonnes of (meaningful) mechanical options will be one of the make/break points for me.

And thanks for the reply.

Paizo Employee Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Hythlodeus wrote:
How backwards compatible will this be? How much work will I have to invest in a 2nd ed. AP to make it work in the real system?

Most of the encounter groupings will work pretty well. Converting a 2E monster to a 1E one will take some time (more time than going in the other direction anyway), but is pretty doable. For interaction and all that, certainly all the same concepts will be there, just implemented in different ways. And any adventure featuring downtime heavily will probably require Ultimate Campaign and some work by hand.

Treasure is your biggest wild card here. Money will need tweaking, and you might have to add in more +1 longswords and the like. Individual items may or may not be in the P1 Core Rulebook, but you kind of already know the sorts of replacements you might be able to drop in.

Hope that helps!

Dark Archive

how doea this affect the minis line? im assuming you will be usi g all the critter from bestiary 1_6 so im guessing not at all but still....


4 people marked this as a favorite.

This is cool. By and large, I think it's a good thing. Especially getting some setting updates on the APs having canonically happened, so I have a better idea how to run them as a proper continuity.

Buuut... Pathfinder's merit for me was that it was a way to keep playing 3.5, which I'd already learned and liked, with continued updates. I had thought this was a lot of the purpose of the game. I'll try 2e, I'll probably if nothing else cherrypick some mechanics as houserules, but I'm pretty down about the end date for future content for the original, and I hope it's not too different. That the conversion FAQ answer only talks about updating has me a bit worried that it might be difficult to reverse engineer.

If I can realistically adapt 2e content back to 1e at least a majority of the time, then I'll consider it a definite good. And I'm definitely not zomg boycotting Paizo forevers either way, at absolute worst I like the campaign setting and information for that should still be valuable no matter what I do (I'm not waiting for Planar Adventures so impatiently because I want new feats) especially if it's a chance for some spring cleaning of the canon to deal with all the "we kinda regret this and hope people forget about it" stuff.

(I'd love to say a bright side might be fewer "are we there yet?" threads, but they'll probably just be replaced by "boo I hate 2e" threads...)

Just don't de-core my favorite race like D&D 2e did :P


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Alchemist a core class but not kineticist, psychic, or oracle?

Goblin is a core race but not aasimar, tiefling, catfolk, ratfolk, etc?

Not a fan of class specific feats.

10th level spells are ridiculous.

Paizo Employee Designer

16 people marked this as a favorite.
Anguish wrote:

I'll likely try the 2e playtest rules, because it's only fair to give artists I like the benefit of the doubt, even when they decide to go in the opposite direction of my personal preferences (ie. "yay, we're getting rid of all those pesky hard things like rich action systems and complex bonuses and time-consuming stuff like iterative attacks that require math.")

But hey. Maybe it won't be too hard to convert the future adventure material to run with the 3.x level ruleset. Dare to dream.

As a fellow math nerd, it's actually a fascinating process. We crunched a lot of math; I knew that was going to be a big part of the process going in. But the part I didn't expect was how much delicate care we took to include all of that math into the game while not forcing you to need to go tangle with that math unless you choose to do so on your own terms. It's actually possible to make a game that, for instance, has an even richer action system while simultaneously being easier to handle, rather than a trade-off, but the design challenge for doing so is particularly intense. In general, we strive to use these principles throughout the game: solid mathematical underpinnings you can dive into if you choose, but simple user-friendly explanations for those who just want to play.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

3 people marked this as a favorite.

OH also I'd like to add that the cover of the playtest is GORGEOUS. Wayne has been a great artist for a long time, but it's great to see some evolution from his art as well!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

16 people marked this as a favorite.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:


Why not "species",

Basically because we all think that sounds too sci-fi, so we prefer something that sounds more appropriate for a fantasy game.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Please tell me this isn’t going to end up like D&D 5E and Starfinder where everyone for the first several levels is pretty equally compitent.

Got a Barbarian with 8 Charisma... go ahead and roll diplomacy, we’ve leveled everything out enoughthat you have a reasonable chance of succeeding.


45 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Nathanael Love wrote:
Thanks for telling me that the money I spent on this game was not appreciated, Paizo.

See, that's harsh, and in my opinion unreasonable.

Paizo shouldn't be locked into forever making 100% compatible material just because you - or I - prefer it. Sure, I was bummed out when the pasta sauce base I've used for 40+ years was discontinued. But that doesn't mean Kraft did me wrong. All of those meals I've eaten were delicious, and they were exactly the reward I'd contracted with Kraft for when I bought the sauce.

We aren't entitled to eternal new books for PF1e. We got what we paid for. We got a decade extension on life for the rule system we enjoy. We should be thankful for that.

Put one last, emotionally-loaded way, if my wife (of nearly 20 years) decided to call it quits with me, I'd be very, very saddened. But I wouldn't ever think the last two decades were wasted or regret it, or be angry, because frankly they were wonderful years, and the lack of future wonderful years wouldn't take them away from me.

So hey, I'm about as not-thrilled as can be about this news, but I'd still recommend taking a different perspective than the angle you're firing at.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am really looking forward to this!


8 people marked this as a favorite.
Logan Bonner wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
How backwards compatible will this be? How much work will I have to invest in a 2nd ed. AP to make it work in the real system?

Most of the encounter groupings will work pretty well. Converting a 2E monster to a 1E one will take some time (more time than going in the other direction anyway), but is pretty doable. For interaction and all that, certainly all the same concepts will be there, just implemented in different ways. And any adventure featuring downtime heavily will probably require Ultimate Campaign and some work by hand.

Treasure is your biggest wild card here. Money will need tweaking, and you might have to add in more +1 longswords and the like. Individual items may or may not be in the P1 Core Rulebook, but you kind of already know the sorts of replacements you might be able to drop in.

Hope that helps!

I'm not gonna lie, part of that worries me, especially the monster part (I guess you're really using different rules for them, than for the PCs. That's one of the main reasons I can't get into Starfinder)

Treasure and Loot, I can live with. That's probably an easy fix

Downtime or social interactions, I never really nedded rules for. That was were the roleplaying part of roleplaying game came into play. If that's still an option, great. If not, I don't know what to think right now.

I might stick around for the first 2nd edition AP to see if it is worth the work of making it 1st ed.

All in all, the more I read about it, it doesn't look that good. Even if I were willing to chance to a new edition, PF2 atm looks it takes everything I don't like about other systems and throws away the parts I like about the current.

Scarab Sages

9 people marked this as a favorite.

I JUST got all the datafiles for Hero Lab for Pathfinder.

The reason I have liked Pathfinder was because there wouldn’t be editions.

I am not happy.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

frankly im not happy with herolab 2.0 if i buy everything for 1e im set!


When D&D over-simplified things going from 3.5e to 4e, that's when Paizo got me as a Pathfinder player. Don't under-estimate the intelligence of your players and you'll do fine.

I was getting a little tired of Pathfinder with all the non-FRPG stuff added. I hope Pathfinder 2.0 returns to its swords & sorcery core and excludes occult and SF. I'm looking forward to participating in the playtest.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

our gaming group switched from D&D to Pathfinder because we did not want to learn new rules and spend time and money reinvesting in a new system. we also did not like how 4th edition D&D had dumbed-down the game. What I have seen so far in the 2.0 FAQs is that same dumbing down that made us not want to play 4th edition. Sad to say, we're saddened that Pathfinder 1.0 (based on D&D 3.5) will be losing support.
Happily we have years worth of adventures to go through before we need to worry about switching.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I too was frustrated back when WotC jumped from 3.5 to 4th edition. I went with pathfinder because I could still use my 3.5 library (and still do). That being said, Paizo has given my friends and I a decade of great gaming experiences and their products have been top notch. I don't believe for a minute that this is a cash grab to get loyal fans to buy remastered books. I just listened to the Glass Cannon Podcast crew playing under the playtest rules and Jason was able to convert a first edition Pathfinder module on the fly. That answered my question as to whether I can integrate the many Pathfinder books I have with the new rule set. I'm also excited because my gaming group is growing with new players including my 10-year old daughter and my niece and nephew joining. The existing rules are great but have a pretty steep learning curve. A streamlined rule set could be a big plus. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.


8 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Anguish wrote:

I'll likely try the 2e playtest rules, because it's only fair to give artists I like the benefit of the doubt, even when they decide to go in the opposite direction of my personal preferences (ie. "yay, we're getting rid of all those pesky hard things like rich action systems and complex bonuses and time-consuming stuff like iterative attacks that require math.")

But hey. Maybe it won't be too hard to convert the future adventure material to run with the 3.x level ruleset. Dare to dream.

As a fellow math nerd, it's actually a fascinating process. We crunched a lot of math; I knew that was going to be a big part of the process going in. But the part I didn't expect was how much delicate care we took to include all of that math into the game while not forcing you to need to go tangle with that math unless you choose to do so on your own terms. It's actually possible to make a game that, for instance, has an even richer action system while simultaneously being easier to handle, rather than a trade-off, but the design challenge for doing so is particularly intense. In general, we strive to use these principles throughout the game: solid mathematical underpinnings you can dive into if you choose, but simple user-friendly explanations for those who just want to play.

First and foremost, thanks for dedicating some of your time to me.

Second, that's maybe interesting. Well, it's certainly interesting as a glimpse behind the curtain to see the wizard at work. But it's too early to tell if it addresses what I was alluding to. I know you guys aren't going to get specific, so no pressure there. I'll just make myself clear.

To me, part of the fun of the (existing) game is knowing that if I can do X points of damage to ability Y, that will impede my opponents ability to do certain things or resist certain things. Combining multiple tactics to get a job done, mathematically. Having a variety of different ability scores for instance, and a variety of ways to impact those as well as the derived values is fun to me. Creating a build that specifically tends to debuff Will saves, followed by something that attacks it, for instance.

That also extends to on-the-fly decisions about if I should Power Attack, depending on how hard an opponent is to hit. Or if sacrificing a move to Gather Power is worth it.

So anyway, having numbers to play with at the table is my point, and I can't tell if you're talking about number-crafting during character creation/theorycrafting feat/spell/item balance or if you're talking about what I am.

Again, thanks.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Majuba wrote:

Thank you for the extremely detailed and informative FAQ. Truly representative of the exquisite customer service that Paizo represents. It let me quickly ascertain that I will not be joining the revolution.

I look forward to the final year of 3.5/PF content.

But now goblin brains are Core!


Logan Bonner wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
How backwards compatible will this be? How much work will I have to invest in a 2nd ed. AP to make it work in the real system?

Most of the encounter groupings will work pretty well. Converting a 2E monster to a 1E one will take some time (more time than going in the other direction anyway), but is pretty doable. For interaction and all that, certainly all the same concepts will be there, just implemented in different ways. And any adventure featuring downtime heavily will probably require Ultimate Campaign and some work by hand.

Treasure is your biggest wild card here. Money will need tweaking, and you might have to add in more +1 longswords and the like. Individual items may or may not be in the P1 Core Rulebook, but you kind of already know the sorts of replacements you might be able to drop in.

Hope that helps!

I just got back into pathfinder three months ago and one of the main reasons why was all the Pathfinder APs floating around.

How much more work is it going to be, the converting of these. Kinda worried, kinda thinking I should not of resubscribed. Any help in telling me that it will be easy to convert.

Also Goblins as a core race? Why is that a core race? so STUPID.... That alone makes me not want to get it.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Woot!!!!
Ah, so that ambulance chase didn't end up with you getting a heart attack, good to know!

Well, I have all of this old edition warrior gear just lying around, gathering dust. And this pie, which, frankly, wasn't even any good the first time around when I was the one who had to eat it. But *blows off dust*, once I microwave this and definitively convince everyone on the internet with a differing opinion that they are wrong (you know who you are, don't make me call you out), pie will be served.

Oh yes.

Pie will be served...

PIE!!!!!


Erik Mona wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

There's Planar Adventures, and that's it.

I wonder how poorly it's going to sell.

We're not sure! The book is intentionally a bit rules-light and all of the setting lore and plane descriptions will work hand-in-hand with the new edition, so to tell you the truth I am really not too worried about it.

I think it will do fine. It's a remarkably cool book.

I hope so. Despite being overall salty at the new edition, setting books are always cool. They were my favorites through the years. But after the announcement I just wonder how it'll do.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Anguish wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Thanks for telling me that the money I spent on this game was not appreciated, Paizo.

See, that's harsh, and in my opinion unreasonable.

Paizo shouldn't be locked into forever making 100% compatible material just because you - or I - prefer it. Sure, I was bummed out when the pasta sauce base I've used for 40+ years was discontinued. But that doesn't mean Kraft did me wrong. All of those meals I've eaten were delicious, and they were exactly the reward I'd contracted with Kraft for when I bought the sauce.

We aren't entitled to eternal new books for PF1e. We got what we paid for. We got a decade extension on life for the rule system we enjoy. We should be thankful for that.

Put one last, emotionally-loaded way, if my wife (of nearly 20 years) decided to call it quits with me, I'd be very, very saddened. But I wouldn't ever think the last two decades were wasted or regret it, or be angry, because frankly they were wonderful years, and the lack of future wonderful years wouldn't take them away from me.

So hey, I'm about as not-thrilled as can be about this news, but I'd still recommend taking a different perspective than the angle you're firing at.

That's good for you if you have been playing since the beginning, but some of us haven't been around nearly as long. I just dropped $250 on some hardcover PF1e rulebooks two weeks ago, and today I'm finding out I probably should have saved it for PF2e stuff.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Erik Mona wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:


Why not "species",
Basically because we all think that sounds too sci-fi, so we prefer something that sounds more appropriate for a fantasy game.

I have to say I really like the use of "Ancestry" as replacement for Race, and had considered "Species" previously but I couldn't get past the adjective form of "species" being "special" and "ancestral traits" sounds a lot better than "special traits".

I am genuinely excited for this. 11 years (plus a bit) for an edition is a really good run, IMO.

I'm slightly concerned that the FAQ answer to "Did you fix my problem with Pathfinder?" is not "yes", however.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

20 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
I'm just interested to see what the class designs are and how this new iconic goblin alchemist compares to Damiel.

It will be shorter and greener.

Shadow Lodge

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, I have zero interest in a new edition, myself. I specifically moved into Pathfinder to have a system that allowed me to keep using my old 3.5 stuff with minimal adjustment. I'm not at all interested in learning a new system. Starfinder already changed enough for me to consider it one and I lost interest on the mechanics of that, even if I'm totally up for the sci-fi aesthetic and setting and plotlines, so I just use it with PF (or PF1, I guess I have to say now) mechanics and adapt as needed.

If Starfinder is already "too different" for me, I have no doubts that PF2 will be equally as much a turnoff.

I already do so much homebrewing and conversion for the APs I run anyway, since I don't play in Golarion and my homebrew setting has a lot of extra races and such; this really won't be any different, once I figure out how to reverse-engineer PF2 stuff. I'll just be buying them for the storytelling and the art like I already do.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Were-wraith wrote:


That's good for you if you have been playing since the beginning, but some of us haven't been around nearly as long. I just dropped $250 on some hardcover PF1e rulebooks two weeks ago, and today I'm finding out I probably should have saved it for PF2e stuff.

As a fellow gamer who always, always, always buys a computer and/or phone immediately before the new version launches and makes my purchase obsolete, you have my deepest sympathies.


11 people marked this as a favorite.

I just hope there will be no need for six new bestiaries, and that we can easily use the present ones with PF2E. I'm not looking forward for books filled with the same creatures, just with different rules...

I'm also hoping that we can quickly get our favorite classes, like the base classes or the occult classes. It would be a shame if we needed to wait for years to use those classes, and when we finally get to them, we would be seeing the same concepts merely reinvented in new rules...


It'll likely be a while before I get into this, if at all. One person doesn't make a gaming group, and most everybody I know isn't as much into diving into game mechanics as I am. There's also the fact that I do like diving into game mechanics, which is going to make it hard for anything just starting out to compete with the current presence PF has (I don't think I've had a single character that was single-classed core since I left the Beginner Box). Heck, I spend more time finding obscure things to build than actually playing.

I can't fully endorse setting-tied mechanics in core. As a complexity nut, these things can hit a wall early and knock off a good chunk of options from ever occurring. Once you have a foundation, you can tap into a setting for extra creativity, but build that foundation first.

That said, I may look into a passing familiarity if there are characters difficult to render using PF1, like I do with Starfinder currently. Easiest way to do it? Drop a few of the setting-based restrictions that have been in PF1 since core. I have tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to build a satisfying member of a Core PF class, but can never take the chassis seriously because of a few lines of text that no archetype ever fully removes. If nothing else, free the Druid from its wooden shackles and let it embrace all materials in nature.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just putting this out here devs. I'll probably be sold if I can play a Master Chymist from first level.

I never got that Chymist-as-an-archetype option I've been wanting since the APG.

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Wait. Species sounds too Sci-fi, when it is a real world, biological concept used in everyday life? That makes absolutely no sense.

Sovereign Court

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

To be fair, "biological" also sounds kinda sci-fi in the context.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, I have an important questions concerning bestiaries. Personally, my favorite books in all of PF are the bestiaries because they always explore unique concepts and introduce me to new myths and legends. Hell, I read "The Willows" because the monster was in a bestiary. (Thanks for that, by the way).

So, will we still be exploring untapped cultures and pop culture for monsters, or will there be a lull in the "brand new" monsters?


8 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Moreland wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
I'm just interested to see what the class designs are and how this new iconic goblin alchemist compares to Damiel.
It will be shorter and greener.

I will agree to pose for Mr. Reynolds as the new goblin iconic, but any nudity must be tasteful.

But not too tasteful.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Trellon Falorin wrote:
I JUST got all the datafiles for Hero Lab for Pathfinder.

I consider that a plus, as you will have a complete edition with no need to purchase further.


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The Gold Sovereign wrote:

I just hope there will be no need for six new bestiaries, and that we can easily use the present ones with PF2E. I'm not looking forward for books filled with the same creatures, just with different rules...

I'm also hoping that we can quickly get our favorite classes, like the base classes or the occult classes. It would be a shame if we needed to wait for years to use those classes, and when we finally get to them, we would be seeing the same concepts merely reinvented in new rules...

I second hoping to see all the classes converted quickly. The huge range of classes is one of my favorite aspects of Pathfinder.


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I've yet to see a good reason why that step was necessary at all. "People nowadays are too stupid to understand the PF rules" can't be it

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
Pakishi wrote:

I'm torn on the subject. In one hand, NEW AND SHINY!, in the other, "but I've already invested in Pathfinder...heavily as is."

And I guess you have gotten a lot of value off that investment.

Absolutely, I'm far from jumping ship. From the moment I first picked up the Pathfinder CRB, I was hooked. I will be digging into 2e as soon as I get it, and will probably continue my investment.


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Hythlodeus wrote:
I've yet to see a good reason why that step was necessary at all. "People nowadays are too stupid to understand the PF rules" can't be it

I feel like "Over the last decade we've thought of a lot of ways we could have done it better, so now we are doing it better" ought to be sufficient. The selling point is then "it's better now" and evidence of the veracity of that claim will be available in the playtest when it's out. But without access to the document, it's fine to refrain from judgment, but we shouldn't say decisively "it's not". PDF of the playtest is a free download, after all.

It's less that the rules are incomprehensible, and more about those areas of the rules that are irritating since they are not as elegant/intuitive/clear/balanced/whatever as they could be.


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Just as a side note, it wasn't until I dug through the comments that I was able to find out that the core rulebook for the playtest would be a free PDF; there was no indication of this in the announcement post. From the way it was worded, the only free content was a bestiary "and other free game aids, such as character sheets and rules reference cards".

I was pretty pissed at the prospect of selling playtest material, only to sell us 2e rulebooks when the game was completed. Reminded me a little too much of Steam Early Access for all the wrong reasons.

With that said, I'm excited to read the PDF when it drops, but lord only knows if I'll be able to get a group together for it.


Roregg wrote:

Wait. Species sounds too Sci-fi, when it is a real world, biological concept used in everyday life? That makes absolutely no sense.

Used in 2018, to refer to animals. Not different sentient creatures.

Although I can't hear heritage without "don't insult my dwarven heritage" followed by someone guzzling a gallon of ale.


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Erik Mona wrote:
Snip.

To the unhappy folks:

The tabletop RPG market has innovated so far beyond Pathfinder's core rules that it isn't even in question. Play even a fantasy heartbreaker, the ones that TVtropes makes fun of, and you can see that Pathfinder is married to a lot of outdated concepts.

People say that innovation has hurt D&D, but even among the grognards who enjoy the B/X versions of D&D, there have been innovations in the modern OSR movement.

The fact that Paizo recognizes it is time for surgery, which is their own terminology for this change, is to their credit. Change is hard to stomach. You see this when YouTube channels change their filters or cameras, when TV series get a new director, when ships get a new captain, when companies get a new CEO.

Trust is a lot to give to a company. But I say give it. They've served you well so far, haven't they?

But to Paizo:

Change is also a beast to weather.

If Pathfinder is changed too much, you'll lose the player-base you accumulated in hemorrhaging numbers. If it is changed too little, you won't gain a worthwhile fraction of a new market. And most of that new market won't be commenting here or engaging in the play-test, so you have at least a sizable (I don't want to overstate this, either) blind spot as you develop this second edition.

My own view is that integrating the world with the core rules is going to hurt both your sway over older players and over newer players. Lore is a barrier to entry to anyone who doesn't love it, and it's beloved by folks who are already in the choir, so to speak.

The fact that 13th Age, Symbaroum, and SotDL sold well may convey that lore is good - but I offer the suggestion that they sold well on the merits of their mechanics, and also because their lore was so easily consumable. I mean, those settings are chock-full of blank creative space, unlike Golarion, which has the weight of a proper, fully fleshed-out setting. A setting which due to its weight is cumbersome to those who do not wish to use it.

Overall, I must say I'd challenge you guys to have more of a vision, though, not less, in the face of all this community insecurity. I don't mean that as a veiled insult - excellence neither needs nor makes excuses for itself, and Pathfinder has had excellent presence in the marketplace.

But at least within the first hours of this new announcement, all I can see is that you still selling second edition as a game. Not just that, but a game with disclaimers (don't worry) and reassurances (it's still the game you love) attached. I mean, come on.

You're the only competitor that can give freakin' WotC a run for its money in terms of production quality, and you're selling this like you're doing a yet another tabletop RPG?

In the LED industry, folks get told that they are not selling lights. They're told that they're selling a life experience.

I want that. I want the experience ahead, not reassurances that stuff behind us will still be okay (though this is hyperbolic to help me make my point. Yes, I acknowledge that PR work is important.)

How will this kick D&D's arse?
How will this bring new gamers into the fold?
What online tools will 2e use?
What streams will incorporate it?
What events will kick off its release?
What excites each individual dev most about the new edition?
What makes you guys go to work and grind at this thing?
What opportunities does this provide for 3rd party publishers?
Who are you partnering with among 3rd party publishers?
What innovative graphic design projects are you commissioning?
Who are your consultants outside-of-house?
Who are your cartographers?
What will the first true adventure be?
How will this radically change the RPG world?

...what is groundbreaking about this huge new announcement, if anything at all?

That is the direction of the visionary, right? Go big or go home.


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Kudos to Paizo for the decision.
I am positive one can design a new edition and keep what made 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder 1st edition marvelous and interesting while trimming the superfluous.
And for superfluous I mean anything that needlessly complicates character and encounter building while being frustrating and adding nothing of interest.
Is very premature for any comment, I will monitor the news!
Good luck!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Mine all mine...don't touch wrote:
how doea this affect the minis line? im assuming you will be usi g all the critter from bestiary 1_6 so im guessing not at all but still....

It doesn't mean that we'll tell WizKids that they can only make minis out of Second Edition products. It does mean that we already have some great new Wayne Reynolds illustrations just aching to be made three-dimensional for your gaming table.


Player Killer wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:

I just hope there will be no need for six new bestiaries, and that we can easily use the present ones with PF2E. I'm not looking forward for books filled with the same creatures, just with different rules...

I'm also hoping that we can quickly get our favorite classes, like the base classes or the occult classes. It would be a shame if we needed to wait for years to use those classes, and when we finally get to them, we would be seeing the same concepts merely reinvented in new rules...

I second hoping to see all the classes converted quickly. The huge range of classes is one of my favorite aspects of Pathfinder.

12 sounds like a good starting point for a first book. I could see cutting some of the ACG classes being cut. I could see some of the ACG classes becoming core options for their parent classes, depending on how this all shake out.

I admit, my first reaction was... cautious. But having thought on it for a few hours, depending on how it all shakes out, I am very excited.

Silver Crusade

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Sentient has nothing to do with the species concept, we are animals and sentient. In 2018, Homo sapiens is still a species, just as Homo neanderthalensis is a separate species (or subspecies if you want H.s.n).

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