First Look at the Pathfinder Playtest

Tuesday, March 6, 2018

Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

New, but the Same

Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.

Building a Character

It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.

Playing the Game

We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!

Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!

Monsters and Treasure

The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.

We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!

What's Next?

There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!

Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!

We Need You!

All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Playtest
451 to 500 of 1,608 << first < prev | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | next > last >>

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lord Mhoram wrote:

I wonder if a 3PP will do what Paizo did with 3.5, and keep the current iteration of the rules (3.x based) in print. Wouldn't have to say Pathfinder on it, just use that base set - for those who want to keep the same (basic) ruleset.

It would appeal to a niche of a niche so I don't think it would be a huge seller, but probably pretty robust sales if everyone who likes the system moved to it.

From the FAQ

Playtest FAQ wrote:

While we do not plan to release additional Pathfinder First Edition products after August 2019, we DO plan to keep paperback Pocket Editions of First Edition rulebooks in print as long as enough people are buying them, so even in the era of Pathfinder Second Edition, First Edition adherents should be able to find their preferred version of the game in print without too much trouble. Our First Edition PDF products will also remain available.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
chillblame wrote:
Saw one thing that fills me with concern. Skill proficiencies. Sounds very 2nd ed D&D. I like the way skills are, thank you.

In full honesty, I never really did like how I could play a character who became one of the world's leading experts in five or more unrelated subjects over the course of a campaign because I kept putting skill ranks in them every level.

I feel like it's fine to have a character who is one of the greatest theological scholars in the world, but it should take more investment than "one rank in knowledge (religion) every level over the course of an AP".


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
chillblame wrote:
Saw one thing that fills me with concern. Skill proficiencies. Sounds very 2nd ed D&D. I like the way skills are, thank you.

In full honesty, I never really did like how I could play a character who became one of the world's leading experts in five or more unrelated subjects over the course of a campaign because I kept putting skill ranks in them every level.

I feel like it's fine to have a character who is one of the greatest theological scholars in the world, but it should take more investment than "one rank in knowledge (religion) every level over the course of an AP".

I see your point, but I still like the skill system.

Though thinking on it, by 10th level, you nearly couldn't fail a skill check, so it was broken that way.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

At the very least, Pathfinder will still have the following customization over 5e:

Feats (without giving something up to get them).
Archetypes.
Sounds like more flexibility/choice in skills.

Like 5e, it seems to have:
Spells
Ancestry/race options
Background
"Full ranks", i.e. you don't assign individual skill points every level
Probably bloodlines, arcane school, etc. Pathfinder 2.0 seems likely to have more menu options.

So from Pathfinder we lose:
Traits get merged into a background.
Feats get put into buckets.
Pick skills rather than assigning ranks.

I'm okay with all that. While I don't mind the Pathfinder 1.0 versions, "pick traits" often involves me helping players, "pick a feat" always involves me helping players, and "assign skill ranks" generally involves needing to correct a mistake a session or two later.

Oh, and you get much better flexibility on the items you get. No more Big 6!


16 people marked this as a favorite.

I just hope 2e doesn't try & be too much like D&D 5e now...

One of the MAIN reason why I've switched from 5e to PF is because the Skill system & combat seems way better & more structured then 5e.

Please don't let PF 2e just be a dumb'ed down simplification of PF...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Olorin_Plane_Walker wrote:

I just hope 2e doesn't try & be too much like D&D 5e now...

One of the MAIN reason why I've switched from 5e to PF is because the Skill system & combat seems way better & more structured then 5e.

Please don't let PF 2e just be a dumb'ed down simplification of PF...

Amen


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd prefer more of a Mount and Blade style multi-part background to a single 5E one. Reforming traits into just two categories of "origin" ("child of minor noble" gaining social skills) and "early life" ("smith's apprentice" gaining crafting) would be a great improvement over the dozen different trait categories that aren't clearly defined.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

...a huge deal has been made of how goblins are going to be a playable race in the new 2.0 Pathfinder.

This is a race that in-canon is terrified of written words and by nature is disruptive and doesn't work well together save with others of their race. They are hardly the perfect fit (unless a lot of plot shenanigans happen) for most tables, imo.

The thing that has brought me over to Pathfinder has been tengu.

No other large-run RPG line really has them.

Respectfully request that tengu be made available at earliest convenience in 2.0, before even tieflings or aasimar or other races.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration in advance.


9 people marked this as a favorite.

I would like to add that I believe a 2nd Edition to Pathfinder was inevitable.

PF as-is carries too many faults and weaknesses from 3.5 (an unfortunate necessity at the time). Since then however, Paizo team, and players and GMs from around the world, have come up with wonderful improvement and numerous addons to this great game. After 10 years of continuous development, there absolutely NEEDS to be at least a revision of the whole system, and finally fix the faults inherent within.

I just hope PF2 doesn't go down the path of other game systems. Stealing a couple of ideas here and there is fine and all, but PF should aim for a specific style of tabletop rpg that greatly differs from other game systems. You need to give a reason to the people for them to choose your system over the others that just aren't delivering what they want.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Heh. I'm waiting for kitsune to get added in myself. It'd be nice to have a big ancestry book pretty early on.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I've actually been wondering; considering the playtest is being advertised with having "10th level spells," is that *including* cantrips/orisons, resulting in cantrips + 9 levels, or is there a proper 10th level of spellcasting now?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Of all the things about 2e, this statement has me the most nervous:

"As the new edition of Pathfinder develops, most of your favorite classes, archetypes, feats, spells, and magic items will find a home somewhere in the game."

One of my favorite draws to Pathfinder IS the huge variety of classes and archetypes. Vigilante is one of my favorite classes, specifically a certain archetype of Vigilante; with the uncertain nature of what classes will be rolled out and when in 2e, I could hypothetically be waiting nearly ten years to play that class...if at all. We are flipping a coin to see what classes get an official 2e release, flipping another coin to see what archetypes get an official release, and yet flipping a third for what point of the edition's life cycle that it will be released.

That's a whole lot of coin flips just to reach the status-quo. Last thing I want to do is shell out the big bucks investing in an edition that may or may not even have the classes and archetypes I play.

Dark Archive

Friendly Rogue wrote:
I've actually been wondering; considering the playtest is being advertised with having "10th level spells," is that *including* cantrips/orisons, resulting in cantrips + 9 levels, or is there a proper 10th level of spellcasting now?

I had thought maybe they were doing away with 0 level spells, however after listening to the podcast of the playtest cantrips are still a thing.

As for 10th level spells, the way it is written is that it is a whole new level of spell above 9th level.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So, I've never used Golarion, and I have very little intention of ever using it for much more than inspiration (though I do use a lot of the planar cosmology as its presented). While it's definitely a fun setting, I much prefer to play in a world I made myself.

In Starfinder I've run into the problem of having to explain to new players that they need to ignore all the setting material in the core rules. Will I have to do this in 2E also? I understand the problems with a completely setting-agnostic ruleset, but it sure helps us players who use home-brew settings.

Paizo Employee CEO

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Lord Mhoram wrote:

I wonder if a 3PP will do what Paizo did with 3.5, and keep the current iteration of the rules (3.x based) in print. Wouldn't have to say Pathfinder on it, just use that base set - for those who want to keep the same (basic) ruleset.

It would appeal to a niche of a niche so I don't think it would be a huge seller, but probably pretty robust sales if everyone who likes the system moved to it.

If you read the FAQ, you will notice that we plan to keep Pathfinder 1st edition in print through our pocket editions until there is no longer enough sales to justify them. If they last another ten year, then cool! No need for a 3PP. We are already going to do it.

-Lisa


PossibleCabbage wrote:
chillblame wrote:
Saw one thing that fills me with concern. Skill proficiencies. Sounds very 2nd ed D&D. I like the way skills are, thank you.

In full honesty, I never really did like how I could play a character who became one of the world's leading experts in five or more unrelated subjects over the course of a campaign because I kept putting skill ranks in them every level.

I feel like it's fine to have a character who is one of the greatest theological scholars in the world, but it should take more investment than "one rank in knowledge (religion) every level over the course of an AP".

Yes, but having a "new" game with the same base rules means it's own identity rather than that of "leftover"


Invictus Novo wrote:
Friendly Rogue wrote:
I've actually been wondering; considering the playtest is being advertised with having "10th level spells," is that *including* cantrips/orisons, resulting in cantrips + 9 levels, or is there a proper 10th level of spellcasting now?

I had thought maybe they were doing away with 0 level spells, however after listening to the podcast of the playtest cantrips are still a thing.

As for 10th level spells, the way it is written is that it is a whole new level of spell above 9th level.

Ooh, well in that case I'm really excited to see how this winds up effecting play as a spellcaster, as well as how it affects the balance between casting classes and martial classes.

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

From the podcast: Acid Splash is an Evocation spell now? I have to wonder if this means the other Acid spells are getting moved too. It would be nice to see the 'blasty' acid spells moved out of Conjuration.

Will the Cure spells be moved to Necromancy?

Sovereign Court

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I wonder if with 10 levels of casting we get cantrips plus 10 levels of spells with some shuffling around of spells so that some of the more powerful spells are bumped up and out of the way a bit more.


Lisa Stevens wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:

I wonder if a 3PP will do what Paizo did with 3.5, and keep the current iteration of the rules (3.x based) in print. Wouldn't have to say Pathfinder on it, just use that base set - for those who want to keep the same (basic) ruleset.

It would appeal to a niche of a niche so I don't think it would be a huge seller, but probably pretty robust sales if everyone who likes the system moved to it.

If you read the FAQ, you will notice that we plan to keep Pathfinder 1st edition in print through our pocket editions until there is no longer enough sales to justify them. If they last another ten year, then cool! No need for a 3PP. We are already going to do it.

-Lisa

And I appreciate it.

I had read that in the faq, and forgot, thanks for the reminder. I'm also thinking of something like an update - collect various 3PP clases (or versions of classes) for a new core book; for those that stayed with PF specifically because it was this set of rules.

Although I do hope 2.0 succeeds beyond your wildest imaginings. :)


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Very interesting...I had a feeling this was coming...I don't why but D&D seems to like to use sci-fi to test ideas for the new edition.

The only thing I am sad to see go is the skill system...the fact that they seem to be adopting the system from 4th ed...fills me with dread.

Otherwise I am going to keep a open mind.


Dragonborn3 wrote:

From the podcast: Acid Splash is an Evocation spell now? I have to wonder if this means the other Acid spells are getting moved too. It would be nice to see the 'blasty' acid spells moved out of Conjuration.

Will the Cure spells be moved to Necromancy?

If anything, likely Evocation, 5e style. Raise Dead and that line of spells should be Necromancy, though.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

It was about time! I understand that people won’t buy this new edition, but I can’t see why they have to be angry about it?

Video games have sequels. Board game have new editions. Wargames and miniatures have editions. And by all mean RPGs too! But not only in Pathfinder. I have three editions of DND, two of 5E because we got a custom made French one. Three of Warhammer RPG, two for L5R, two for Warammer 40K....

It is normal and healthy to have new editions for a game. 10 years is way overdue to be honest. You don’t like it, don’t buy it. I am confident that there will be amazing 3PP products with high quality that will continue the work of Pathfinder.

5E was the best thing that happened in WotC since Mathusalem. I hope PF2 is.

HOWEVER please: - Better background than in SF. They sucked so hard. Next time I see an ability that increase stupid extremely precise bonus like following tracks on a snowy ground or weight reduction carrying capability I burn my playtest. Please make it good and strong and flavorful.

- DEX TO MELEE DAMMAGE! Please! It is 2018 already. And don’t hide it behind three feats.

- Don’t do generic archetypes. Make it custom for classes.

And I upvote the Tengu suggestion. Tengu are awesome, and we could use an animalistic ancestry in the core.

I am expecting this new since Starfinder. SF that was to be honest a huge disappointment, Be smarter please. Relax a bit on the complexity of the rules but not the build variety that is the strongest point of Pathfinder.

My current group have a Tengu URogue, a Mesmerist, a Ploymorpher Chronomancer Wizard, an Half Orc Martyr Bloodrager with an animal companion and a Kelli’s Spiritualist with an Osirian themed Phantom. That is all Pathfinder is about. That is why people are still around after more than 15 years of 3.0. Don’t loose that.


Elizabeth Zeigler wrote:
Vigilante is one of my favorite classes, specifically a certain archetype of Vigilante; with the uncertain nature of what classes will be rolled out and when in 2e, I could hypothetically be waiting nearly ten years to play that class...if at all.

I have a feeling, at least initially, there will still be a lot of 1st edition played in PFS and campaigns. Probably for several years.


Ellias Aubec wrote:
I wonder if with 10 levels of casting we get cantrips plus 10 levels of spells with some shuffling around of spells so that some of the more powerful spells are bumped up and out of the way a bit more.

Seeing as one of the main focuses in 2e is to rebalance the classes so that martial classes don't get so easily overshadowed by casting classes, I'm currently under the impression that, in general, spells are going to be reduced in overall power, making a 10th level of spellcasting on top of everything else more of a method of rebalancing instead of Paizo diving head first into Linear Fighters/Quadratic Wizards

Silver Crusade

10 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think it’s really important to note.

If you aren’t enthused about the new edition, don’t want to come along or bring your players along, that’s fine. Nobody is going to slap the books out of your hands and force you to play or buy the new game.

You can have a complete Pathfinder 1st Edition collection, with thousands of hours of adventure paths supporting that play and hundreds of players companions, and support materials. You can play that game with your friends, use the strategy guide to teach new players. You can get off the train, and stay in Pathfinder 1e land forever.

However, there are plenty of people who have enjoyed Pathfinder since it’s inception, that want to see the game change and evolve. That value ease of play, ease to teach and elegance over pure simulationist complexity.

I want to see what new stuff we can do in a pulp fantasy genre.

Pathfinder came out a decade ago. I’ve been playing the same game for 10 years now. I’m excited for something new. Change is not any kind of disrespect to what has come before, Pathfinder 2e will be standing on the shoulders of giants, and we can all enjoy the shade.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Just please, make the cleric/oracle spell list suck a little less. Clerical magic took a big hit in 3e when the list got stretched to nine levels, as opposed to six previously. Also, more diverse clerics!

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

So full-attacks are gone. Instead we get can six attacks at level 1, with three of those six taking a -5 penalty, or -4 with an agile weapon(which seems really high still)? Did I hear that right in the podcast or is it more like three attacks, two at -5? EDIT: Listened further. It's the second way.

That sounds about as complicated as iterative attacks. Which never seemed that complicated.


Random thought: I hope Dex doesn't get applied tomelee damage without an additional cost. Otherwise, what's the point to Strength characters?

Heck, why stop there? Apply Int to melee damage for free! Wis to melee damage! For no justification other than this is what my class specializes in, so I should get to deal damage with it!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ellias Aubec wrote:
I wonder if with 10 levels of casting we get cantrips plus 10 levels of spells with some shuffling around of spells so that some of the more powerful spells are bumped up and out of the way a bit more.

It would be rather misleading to advertise 10th level spells and then have them simply be renumbered 9th level spells.

But the existence of another spell level seems to me to imply that all full casters will now gain new spell levels at odd character levels, as a spell level not gained until 20th level would be of little practical use.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I'd say that anything down to spiders qualifies as "sentient". People have a bad habit of conflating "sentient" with "sapient" - and even that may be a largely artificial barrier.

That's exactly what I meant. Though I wouldn't phrase it as "down to spiders". Too many shades of "The further away it is from humans, the less evolved it is!" Annoys me to no end that it's standard in medical research to categorize test subjects as "lower species" and "higher species".

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
As I've stated elsewhere prior, there should definitely be a [Sapient] subtype for Animals - apes, corvids, parrots, cetaceans, cephalopods, and likely more besides should have base Intelligence scores of 3-4 at a minimum.

I wholeheartedly agree. 1-2 just doesn't cover the range or acknowledge that some are as smart as toddlers, who I'm sure would never be scored below a 3 according to the rules.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
SteelGuts wrote:
I have three editions of DND, two of 5E because we got a custom made French one. Three of Warhammer RPG, two for L5R, two for Warammer 40K....

Yeah, but how much are they being played today? Every edition fractures an already small subculture and makes it even smaller.

Attended two local conventions recently. No 5E. No Warhammer. No L5R. No Warhammer 40K. 1 table of Starfinder. 6 tables of Pathfinder, which basically supported the entire convention. Imo "old" PF is doing a lot better than the edition jumpers.


22 people marked this as a favorite.

Goodness gracious. There are a lot of very salty people in this thread. I have a few questions for you all, especially of those of you comparing this to WotC.

1: When 2nd edition is printed, it will have been 11 years since 1e was released. Edition changes are inevitable, because bloat follows. For those of you newer to the community: 3rd edition D&D was published in 2000. 3.5 in '03, 4th edition in '08 and 5th in '14. For those of you doing math, that's essentially 4 edition changes in 14 years as opposed to PF's 1 change in 11. This is not an apples to oranges comparison to WotC.

2: For those of you going YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MY MONEY: You are absolutely right. They don't. They aren't forcing you to pay for anything. It's your right whether or not you want to support 2e or not. There is plenty of 1e content that is available forever digitally. There's enough content to keep most gamers happy for at least a decade or two. And I'm sure a few 3rd party publishers will keep making a few things for a while after 2e goes live.

3: For those of you who are complaining that paizo is disrespecting your investment in their game: No. No they aren't. Because you didn't "Invest" in their game. You invested in an experience. You purchased a product from them in order to facilitate said experience. Put another way: if I published a series of cookbooks that everyone loved, and then 10 years later I published a new series that exclusively focused on vegetarian options, have I suddenly ruined your prior books? No. No I haven't. You already paid for the previous cookbooks, you can continue to keep using those cookbooks just fine, no one is stopping you. You just have a new set of options to purchase, if you choose to.

4: Streamlining. A lot of people are complaining that PF is being "dumbed down"... we know next to nothing about the game system and people are already trying to compare this to 4e or 5e. I'd hold your torches and pitchforks until we've seen a few more blogs at least, or preferably until the actual playtest comes out.

4a: If you really love PF and you hate dumbing down, your best bet is to actually try it and give feedback instead of just packing up your toys and going home. If you want to help shape the thing you love, you need to participate instead of just complaining on the forum. And I'd bet money that they will have an easy way to weed out people who clearly haven't even looked at the rules, so I'd spend some time looking before you start up the flame war.

5: To confront the few people I've seen bemoaning how this is just a cash grab: Yes and no. Yes, I'm sure that moving forward paizo will publish "Complete Series 2.0" to bring back a bunch of fan-favorite classes and whatnot for 2e, but I have a few simple words for that. That's totally their right. They as a company have every right to do that. We do not own Pathfinder, they do. If we want gunslinger in it's new incarnation, we can pay for the ability to play it. But also: No, it's not a cash grab in the pure sense. Do you want to play 2e? If so, cool, if not, okay that's on you. For those of us who do, we would probably like a new gunslinger using the new rules. If that means paying, cool. New rules mean new books. And also: all editions eventually become bogged with bloat. New editions help cleanse that issue and hit a reset button.

6: Just to reiterate: try and have some patience folks. Give it half a chance. Right now we have a few buzzwords and a single short blog post to go on, and a podcast if you feel like digging through that for gems. This is not nearly enough to form a coherent image of what the PLAYTEST will look like, let alone the final version of 2e.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Trying to give this an open mind but... this bears noting...

Some of us feel a bit roasted from earlier buzzwords and short blog posts (see: Ultimate Intrigue, Ultimate Wilderness, Advanced Class Guide, etc, et al)


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Kain Gallant wrote:

Random thought: I hope Dex doesn't get applied tomelee damage without an additional cost. Otherwise, what's the point to Strength characters?

Heck, why stop there? Apply Int to melee damage for free! Wis to melee damage! For no justification other than this is what my class specializes in, so I should get to deal damage with it!

I understand the point you're trying to make, but asking for more leniency for dexterity builds isn't too much to ask for. Strength build characters already have the advantage in that, from the start, they do more damage overall than a dex based character and only get better from there. Ignoring feats and magic items, strength builds can two-hand their weapons in order to get a flat multiplication to their damage modifiers, not to mention have unfettered access to weapons with higher damage dice than virtually anything dexterity builds have access to (greataxes with 1d12 versus a rapier/shortsword with 1d6).

While I believe there should be a prerequisite for dex to damage, it should realistically start and end with Weapon Finesse; no flaming hoops you have to jump through just to get dex to damage with more than a single weapon in one hand while the planets are aligned, gods forbid two weapon fighting. When you have a character idea but the only way to effectively use it is to dig through multiple player companions for specific feats and magic enhancements just so you can come online at level 12, it stops being worth it.


12 people marked this as a favorite.
Gip wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
The plan is to address this in the course of play in an upcoming adventure so that it is part of the evolving narrative rather than simply tacked on all of a sudden with no context.
Does this mean we don't get to be crazy little pyros anymore? This saddens Gip enough he feels like writing...

Take my ship, take my shoes,

Take me where the goblins lose.
I don't care, wait and see,
You can't take my fire from me!

Take me out to the shore,
Beat me bloody, aft and fore.
Lock me up, lose the key,
You can't take my fire from me!

There's no place I can't burn,
As these longshanks soon will learn!

And they can't take my fire from me!

TAKE HEART, GIP!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

While I am certainly not excited for this, I do understand that Paizo needs to make money. It's less expensive for them to rewrite the old books and sell them as version 2.0 than it is to pay creators to come up with new material.
My only hope is to have a conversion book, but if it is a big money grab, as I suspect it is, that will not happen. I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I am VERY excited. I stopped GMing/DMing the over complicated Pathfinder RPG 1st Ed. Rules when D&D 5e rules came out but ... I never left the Inner Sea, running 5e Pathfinder adventures ever since.

My PF 2.0 wish list:
*Advatage/Disavatage
* Monster stats should be simple, only contain elements relavent to play, and not follow same rules as PCs
* Bounded accuracy so high level play is reasonable
* Emphasize rule 0

Liberty's Edge

14 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

From a quick skim of the forums, seems like the majority seems to be in favor of the new edition.

I'm not. I suspect it will end my association with Paizo (depending on the ease of backporting 2e APs to 1e). I do not have the time, the energy, the ability or the desire to learn a brand new system again. I bought Starfinder on release day and still haven't had the time or the energy to sit down and read the book properly. I'm too old, too busy and too tired to migrate.

Therefore, this news basically means (for me personally) that Paizo is ceasing to make product for the system I'm playing. It saddens me; I won't have things to buy anymore, and a company whose political agenda I like won't be getting my money anymore. I got some great adventures over the years, but I'm sad that those are now coming to an end and there won't be any more of those great adventures.

And I'm sick and tired of paying over and over again for the basic rules every decade. Pay for elves. Pay for orcs. Pay for wizards. Pay for dragons. Pay for skeletons. I've paid for elves, orcs, wizards, dragons and skeletons in 1e. I paid for them in 2e. I paid for them in 3e. I paid for them in 3.5e. I paid for them in Pathfinder. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PAYING FOR THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My favorite races are aasimar and tiefling. My favorite classes are oracle and witch. So basically, I'm going to have to amass $1000+ worth of books all over again just to have the same breadth of options and the same functional system again that I ALREADY HAD. I have no desire to choose between driving a car with one wheel or paying through the nose to have four wheels.

I'm 99% sure I'm sticking with 1e, and that basically means I will never again have new material to buy, new adventures to experience, and the amount of people that I can play with will gradually dwindle to nothingness and when I'm sixty I will look at old character sheets and think back to how I used to have a hobby that I liked.


11 people marked this as a favorite.
marv wrote:

I am VERY excited. I stopped GMing/DMing the over complicated Pathfinder RPG 1st Ed. Rules when D&D 5e rules came out but ... I never left the Inner Sea, running 5e Pathfinder adventures ever since.

My PF 2.0 wish list:
*Advatage/Disavatage
* Monster stats should be simple, only contain elements relavent to play, and not follow same rules as PCs
* Bounded accuracy so high level play is reasonable
* Emphasize rule 0

I personally disagree; as a homebrewer, I love having monsters operate on the same hardware as PCs, because then I can make reoccuring NPCs like a Minotaur with Skald levels that moonlights as a poet, or a Dragonkin with Barbarian levels who struggles to steel her emotions when compared to her Elf rider. Also, one of the main reasons I prefer Pathfinder 1e over 5e is because of the frequent flat bonuses to dice rolls, as the Advantage/Disadvantage system seems to much like... well, a dice roll. It doesn't properly reflect skill in a character (from a fluff standpoint) when a majority of their skill comes from random chance.

Of course, this is without mentioning that if PF2e was really similar to 5e a lot of people would go into a frenzy


7 people marked this as a favorite.
Captain Killjoy wrote:

Take my ship, take my shoes,

Take me where the goblins lose.
I don't care, wait and see,
You can't take my fire from me!

Take me out to the shore,
Beat me bloody, aft and fore.
Lock me up, lose the key,
You can't take my fire from me!

There's no place I can't burn,
As these longshanks soon will learn!

And they can't take my fire from me!

TAKE HEART, GIP!

O CAPTAIN! MY CAPTAIN!

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I for one am super excited about pretty much everything I've heard so far, which isn't much because... we don't even have a playtest yet.

I play 5e, and I've played every D&D edition since 3rd, I've played several others, and I've been a big Paizo fan for years and years. I don't have a problem with smoothing out skills or proficiencies, but the word proficiency doesn't automatically mean Pathfinder is 5th ed D&D.

I'm excited, can't wait to test things out and offer my opinions to improve the game. Complaining doesn't really do that, especially considering we know... like nothing, comparatively.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

First things first. If I can play the character I want then the MAGUS needs to be in the core book.


12 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
marv wrote:

I am VERY excited. I stopped GMing/DMing the over complicated Pathfinder RPG 1st Ed. Rules when D&D 5e rules came out but ... I never left the Inner Sea, running 5e Pathfinder adventures ever since.

My PF 2.0 wish list:
*Advatage/Disavatage
* Monster stats should be simple, only contain elements relavent to play, and not follow same rules as PCs
* Bounded accuracy so high level play is reasonable
* Emphasize rule 0

So your PF 2.0 wish list is... 5e.


10 people marked this as a favorite.
marv wrote:

I am VERY excited. I stopped GMing/DMing the over complicated Pathfinder RPG 1st Ed. Rules when D&D 5e rules came out but ... I never left the Inner Sea, running 5e Pathfinder adventures ever since.

My PF 2.0 wish list:
*Advatage/Disavatage
* Monster stats should be simple, only contain elements relavent to play, and not follow same rules as PCs
* Bounded accuracy so high level play is reasonable
* Emphasize rule 0

It... it sounds like you just want to keep playing 5e in the Golarion setting. Having Pathfinder 2.0 being a direct clone of 5e would be super boring, and maybe illegal.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Samy wrote:

From a quick skim of the forums, seems like the majority seems to be in favor of the new edition.

I'm not. I suspect it will end my association with Paizo (depending on the ease of backporting 2e APs to 1e). I do not have the time, the energy, the ability or the desire to learn a brand new system again. I bought Starfinder on release day and still haven't had the time or the energy to sit down and read the book properly. I'm too old, too busy and too tired to migrate.

Therefore, this news basically means (for me personally) that Paizo is ceasing to make product for the system I'm playing. It saddens me; I won't have things to buy anymore, and a company whose political agenda I like won't be getting my money anymore. I got some great adventures over the years, but I'm sad that those are now coming to an end and there won't be any more of those great adventures.

And I'm sick and tired of paying over and over again for the basic rules every decade. Pay for elves. Pay for orcs. Pay for wizards. Pay for dragons. Pay for skeletons. I've paid for elves, orcs, wizards, dragons and skeletons in 1e. I paid for them in 2e. I paid for them in 3e. I paid for them in 3.5e. I paid for them in Pathfinder. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PAYING FOR THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My favorite races are aasimar and tiefling. My favorite classes are oracle and witch. So basically, I'm going to have to amass $1000+ worth of books all over again just to have the same breadth of options and the same functional system again that I ALREADY HAD. I have no desire to choose between driving a car with one wheel or paying through the nose to have four wheels.

I'm 99% sure I'm sticking with 1e, and that basically means I will never again have new material to buy, new adventures to experience, and the amount of people that I can play with will gradually dwindle to nothingness and when I'm sixty I will look at old character sheets and think back to how I used to have a hobby that I liked.

While I understand where you're coming from, I feel that you're being needlessly pessimistic about 2e. Pathfinder as a system is almost 10 years old, and when a system gets that old you run into a lot of issues regarding an absolute overflow of content and power creep. A new edition of Pathfinder was an inevitability, but the bright side of this situation is that 1.) Pathfinder has roughly a decade of content to work with at your disposal, and 2.) Paizo isn't running on a scorched earth philosophy and is destroying any and all remnants of 1e as soon as 2e launches, they're going to keep printing 1e books (albeit not new ones) for the foreseeable future.

As for your last paragraph, there's no need to be so negative. I'm only 20 years old and I have friends in my age group who still play 2e (non-Pathfinder), albeit with homebrewed stories, and just recently I started playing a 3.5 Eberron campaign, with the GM being able to use 3.5 books that he's been buying recently. Your days playing Pathfinder 1e aren't as numbered as you think they are, you just need to remain optimistic.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Based on my stack of unplayed APs I believe I'll be looking at 2E around... 2032. :)

I hope it brings new Pathfinder fans to the fold though.

Excelsior!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

14 people marked this as a favorite.
Doggan wrote:


I hope so. Despite being overall salty at the new edition, setting books are always cool. They were my favorites through the years. But after the announcement I just wonder how it'll do.

I promise you that if you like setting books you are going to LOVE some of what we are planning for Golarion in Second Edition. We've been having a lot of really exciting conversations about this very topic in recent weeks, and some of the stuff coming down is going to be really satisfying to folks who like setting books.

I'm not talking about specific details about like what's going on in Isger or something, but ideas of scope and presentation and what have you. Cool stuff is on the horizon, even if you end up hating the new rules and just like lore and maps and fake worlds and stuff.

But we hope you like the rules, too! :)


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Erik Mona wrote:
Doggan wrote:


I hope so. Despite being overall salty at the new edition, setting books are always cool. They were my favorites through the years. But after the announcement I just wonder how it'll do.

I promise you that if you like setting books you are going to LOVE some of what we are planning for Golarion in Second Edition. We've been having a lot of really exciting conversations about this very topic in recent weeks, and some of the stuff coming down is going to be really satisfying to folks who like setting books.

I'm not talking about specific details about like what's going on in Isger or something, but ideas of scope and presentation and what have you. Cool stuff is on the horizon, even if you end up hating the new rules and just like lore and maps and fake worlds and stuff.

But we hope you like the rules, too! :)

Just out of curiosity's sake, are there any plans to delve a little deeper into non-Inner Sea continents, such as Arcadia?

451 to 500 of 1,608 << first < prev | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion / Paizo Blog: First Look at the Pathfinder Playtest All Messageboards