What if Zayifid lives? (SPOILERS)


Legacy of Fire


At the end of House of the Beast, it seems more than moderately likely that Zayifid will be able to successfully flee the party, rather than fight them to the death -- indeed, "Concluding the Adventure" even states that the next adventure will include pointers. Alas, due to page count limitations and/or pugwampis in the editing room, those pointers seem to have been omitted from "Jackal's Price." I'm going with the following, subject to revision if anyone has better ideas:

1. Zayifid, disguised as a gnoll again, shows up as part of Shiz's group on pp. 18-19. Again, he flees if the others look like they'll be defeated.

2. Zayifid, if he survives that, will go on ahead and forge an alliance with the One Source guys -- possibly helping them kidnap Rayhan. In that case, he can survive until the party meets Father Jackal -- it might be interesting to have FJ, the Leng Captain, and Zayfid represent three mutually antagonistic factions, all of whom want the PCs' map!

I'm interested in other ideas or suggestions, especially on how to flesh out scenario #2.


OK, guess this hasn't been much of an issue for anyone else?


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

PLEASE do not include spoilers in thread titles. These show up in the top 10 list on the left of the Paizo main page, as well as in RSS feeds.

Sovereign Court

I actually am really hoping Zayifid dies during the 2nd adventure, and I'll try to... encourage it happening. Mostly because my players have this feeling that they'll be fighting on of the Templar of the Five Winds in each installment, and it's fun to toy with them. :)

If he does live, however, I think I would use him much like your second option. Having a whole new disguise for the 3rd installment would give him another chance to surprise the party.


Zaister wrote:
PLEASE do not include spoilers in thread titles. These show up in the top 10 list on the left of the Paizo main page, as well as in RSS feeds.

Not much of a spoiler, considering the same title could be used for any NPC or PC in the entire AP to mean different things... but OK, mea culpa. Now, are there any on-topic suggestions?


If he lives, I may consider using him as a "potential buyer" of the scroll, although whether as an addition to the three already considering the purchase or to replace one of the existing NPCs at the dinner party remains to be seen for when we get a little closer to the event.


Remember that Zayifid doesn't need to actually possess the map; he just needs someone to open it up again, possibly multiple times. Maybe in his new guise he realizes that without his full templar powers the PCs are out of his league and he should ally with them in exchange for one round trip in and out of Kakishon. Even one way (in) would be enough, since he could have done enough research to show that a gate spell would get people out, so he'd take a scroll in and then rescue Jhavul with that.

In my campaign his goals have been close to the PCs' almost the entire time, and he keeps offering alliances and they keep betraying him. He anticipates this and plans for it (which I do without cheating), and so far everything's coming up Zayifid. The only complication is that he's currently stuck inside Kakishon with them, so I need to figure out what he's going to do next. :D

Sovereign Court

Why does Zayifid want to go to Kakishon again? (DHTBIFOM...)

I fail to remember why he was so pissed and why he went bad...


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Why does Zayifid want to go to Kakishon again? (DHTBIFOM...)

I fail to remember why he was so pissed and why he went bad...

He got sick of being on the wuss side. He realized that Jhavul was way tougher than his mopey boss, and switches allegiances. He doesn't actually want to go to Kakishon at all, if he can release Jhavul without going there.

In my campaign he made a deal with the PCs that they can keep the scroll as long as he gets one trip there, so he was present when they opened it. He got sucked in at the same time they did, and ran away during the fight with the hydra. He knows that Jhavul got out, so now he just needs to escape and claim credit.

Sovereign Court

tbug wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Why does Zayifid want to go to Kakishon again? (DHTBIFOM...)

I fail to remember why he was so pissed and why he went bad...

He got sick of being on the wuss side. He realized that Jhavul was way tougher than his mopey boss, and switches allegiances. He doesn't actually want to go to Kakishon at all, if he can release Jhavul without going there.

In my campaign he made a deal with the PCs that they can keep the scroll as long as he gets one trip there, so he was present when they opened it. He got sucked in at the same time they did, and ran away during the fight with the hydra. He knows that Jhavul got out, so now he just needs to escape and claim credit.

You're losing me again (I haven't read as far as you). So when they get to Kakishon, Jhavul is not there with the rest of the effreeti army? so you had Zayifid go "WTF? I'm outta here!!" and now he's looking for a way out? Does he know where Jhavul is? Why does he care about finding Jhavul anyway? (isn't the war over?)


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
You're losing me again (I haven't read as far as you). So when they get to Kakishon, Jhavul is not there with the rest of the effreeti army?

He's there, but as soon as the portal opens up he and all his efreet buddies fly out. The PCs (and, in my case, Zayifid) tumble toward the ground and in the process see these big, fiery, flying guys escape.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
so you had Zayifid go "WTF? I'm outta here!!" and now he's looking for a way out?

Pretty much.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Does he know where Jhavul is? Why does he care about finding Jhavul anyway? (isn't the war over?)

The act of betraying Nefeshti returned Zayifid's mortality, and he doesn't want to die. He sees Jhavul as being way tougher than his former boss and wants to work for him (and presumably regain his former power level and then some).

So Zayifid knows that Jhavul is loose on the material plane, and just want to back and claim his reward for freeing him.

Sovereign Court

Pretty cool tbug!

I think I'm gonna do everything you did, in all regards. I may give the moldspeaker the ghost touch ability against Zayifid, as ethereal jaunt can be a pain in the party's behind if (like he did last time) Zayifid manages to sleight of hand the parchment from them while invisible, then using the ether jaunt the round right after he swiped it...

(they had a full round to find him before he escaped, but the spellcasters did not have see invis. and did not think of casting detect magic to pinpoint... so the party called a janni of their own and the two jannis battled for the scroll... :) the summoned janni returned to the prime material as soon as he "disarmed" the scroll from Zayifid...)


I'm not sure if this helps anymore, but Zayifid lived in my game too. When the group was leaving the House of the Beast, Zayifid rallied several of the surviving troops against the group and failed again.

The group is gathering supplies and such in Kelmarane at the moment. I'm planning on having Zayifid do the following in addition to the ideas above;

1. Try to organize several of the tribes to attack Kelmarane or lay siege to the town. He will only be successful in getting the Three Jaw Tribe to Kelmarane before the PCs leave town. I'm debating on whether to add an allied evil djanni. If that fails then . . .
2. Zayifid will be dogging the group right up to the point they open the scroll.

Dark Archive Contributor

Since he's still kicking around in my game, I intend to use him to plug the plot hole of how everyone in the region suddenly knows the PCs have the scroll. He's likely behind the Sons of Carrion, and will probably try to steal the scroll from them at every opportunity.

Once the PCs are in Katapesh, I'll have him pose as Rayhan and try to persuade them to hand the Scroll over again. Here I'll likely be finished with him and they can defeat him for good, but we'll see how the dice land.


In our campaign he lived, and hid with Rayhan (in disguise) and travelled with us to the island. There he figured out he didn't have his "get out of jail free card" and more when oh $^*% and tried to go invisible to run away... unfortunately for him we had glitterdust prepared and got the right square... resulting in a pineapple enema for him right before the hydra attack (we were not pleased with him). End of Zayifid -- however he is a nice reoccurring villain/possible redeemed character.

Dark Archive

Oh Come on abe, I put alot more work into it than that. tell them the full story.


You can, you're a better story teller than me. However I assure everyone that it was well done, and well played by our GM. Very fun and like I said well planned/done.


In my game Zayifid escaped, too. In his disguise as Rokova he was controlling the (still living) Thkot Tal plus a few remaining Carrion Guards and prepared an ambush at the entrance to the Deep Vaults, waiting for the returning PCs. After Thkot Tal's defeat he tried to convince the PCs to settle the matter peacefully and sell him the scroll. They refused his offer, but were unable to defeat the flying and well protected jann - a stalemate.

Usually I try to avoid a growing list of recurring villains (Oh no, in Part 1 even Xulthos escaped...), but there was no logical way to let Zayifid die in this encounter, especially if one considers his ethereal jaunt and planeshift powers. And I agree with you all that the surviving Zayifid is a great way to fix some plot issues in Part 3 (my players definitely will keep the discovery of the scroll a secret!). I appreciate your good ideas to continue with Zayifid, and I will head for a similar direction.

Liberty's Edge

I'm glad I remembered this thread from the first time I read through it. Now that my players are just about done with HotB the suggestions and ideas here are going to come in very handy.


In my campaign Zayifid survived the first clash with the heroes - but was near death. I made him really vengeful, so he would attack the heroes later again. They saw him as Rokova in the house of the beast.

The second time was during the abduction of Rayhan, where he and Radi killed one player because the party treated Radi like scum. Zayifid appreciated Radis efforts due to his hurt ego. Radi died and Zayifid (this time in his true form) managed to flee again - but this time it was really really close. I gave the moldspeaker the feeling, that he knows this guy from somewhere... Now with Rayhan abducted they wonder who the hell this enemy is. They think of him as Father Jackal.(For this fight I advanced him to rogue Lvl 8 - because I am a really evil DM)

Zayifids last stand will be in Kakishon. He will accidently travel with the PCs, escape for the last time on the beach and will face them somewhere near the end of part 4 - advanced again. During the final fight he will be an male advanced fiendish janni rogue 9. (Due to his time under Pale Mountain he is corrupted by the presence of Xotani. That's why I added this 2 templates) Maybe he'll have an alliance with the "bad" shaitans in Kakishon - don't know by now.

Silver Crusade

Reading all this makes me wish I hadn't killed the guy off now...

Hey ho...


IMC, he escaped during House of the Beast. I decided that it was Z that organized the Sons of Carrion, was spying in town, and alerted the Sons that the caravan was leaving.

During the Sphinx battle, Z was running around invisibly trying to catch up to the lion-form druid carrying the scroll. By the time he caught the druid, the rest of the combatants had been dealt with and the party quickly subdued him (a near first for my group).

They tied him up, failed the Planar check to remember they can plane shift, and tried to question him. I let them learn a bit more of the story and then he Plane Shift'd away. My PCs are a wee bit angry now.

It won't work for my campaign, but having Z be Father J is a great idea to finally wrap him up.


IMC, he captured the PCs. While they were busy killing Carrion Guards, Initiates and Ghartok, he rallied the remaining five Unchosen and waited for them to finish off the Carrion King and then beat them senseless, since they didn't want to surrender.

Next, he dropped them down the hole in H11 with one weapon each and gave them a scroll of Sending to contact him when they loot Shirak's tomb and he'll open a way back. That was last night and now I'm not sure how to contninue...

The PCs are, of course, furious because they've been humbled by the gnolls and are already planning to rip Zayifid apart when they come back. Zayifid has 12 gnoll warriors (regular gnolls can't serve even as proper arrow bait anymore), 3 Carrion Guards, 3 Hyenadons, 3 Unchosen, 2 Carrion Initiates and, of course, Thkot Tal.

Because I want to give them a fighting chance when they come back, I'll probably put Lessar and Salamanders in their way, giving them an opportunity to make some allies for the climactic battle in the end. The plan is for them to kill them all and for Zayifid to escape, via Plane Shift/Ethereal Jaunt.

I also hope that an opportunity will present itself for Zayifid to lose his Scimitar, since one of the PCs is a Cleric of Sarenrae, making this a perfect weapon for him.

As for the rest of the campaign... I don't know. I guess I'll think about it as I go. :D


IMCs he escaped and was the cause of the rumors of the scroll spreading in Katapesh. He also was assisting the theives and was added in the final fight with father jackal.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Zayfid escaped in my campaign..He will turn up again, but not sure where yet.


Mr Baron wrote:
Zayfid escaped in my campaign..He will turn up again, but not sure where yet.

After Pahzvahn took the unconcious Zayifid off my players hands, he (Zayifid) turned up again as a statue in Rayhan's garden. Seems Nefeshti did not like what Zayifid was doing behind her back.


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Thread necromancy...

My Zayifid also survived House of the Beast. He spent much of Jackal's Price watching the party from afar as best as he could with the resources he had, but their paranoia was sufficient to prevent him from getting a good second chance at the Scroll. After the Scroll was opened, he threw in with Jhavhul.

I'm throwing together an advanced version of him (re-juiced by being teamed up with Jhavhul in place of Nefeshti is how I think of the cause of his rapid advancement) and he'll pop up in Final Wish, probably with his fellow fallen templar but maybe with the Big Man himself.


Zayifid survived in my campaign as well. I had him appear as an event during the caravan to Katapesh, which worked out pretty well. He died there, but had he survived I would have had him come back again later (perhaps in a new disguise). He has the potential to be a good recurring character if you feel like leveling him along with the party. I can even see him being drawn into Kakishon with the party or perhaps allying with Jhavul in the final module.


In our game he also survived to bedevil us for the rest of the campaign. He attacked us on our way to Katapesh, as we activated the scroll, assassinated our witch a couple times, and eventually we finally defeated him along with Davashum at Kelmarane. There was much rejoicing when he was finally defeated.

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