Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
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While boon slots aim to reduce the amount of shuffling through papers once an adventure's underway, there's another design consideration that doesn't feature in this blog: power.
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With a system like boon slots, Thursty and I are in a neat position where we can develop some really neat boons because we know that PCs will only be able to carry a handful into a scenario.
I'm happy to hear that this system will give enough power budget to make more interesting boons. However, the article says that reducing book keeping is the primary motivation when this system will actually increase the book keeping and come at the cost of impacting the flow and writing of scenarios.
KingOfAnything Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha |
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John Compton wrote:I'm happy to hear that this system will give enough power budget to make more interesting boons. However, the article says that reducing book keeping is the primary motivation when this system will actually increase the book keeping and come at the cost of impacting the flow and writing of scenarios.While boon slots aim to reduce the amount of shuffling through papers once an adventure's underway, there's another design consideration that doesn't feature in this blog: power.
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With a system like boon slots, Thursty and I are in a neat position where we can develop some really neat boons because we know that PCs will only be able to carry a handful into a scenario.
A known disruption as we're settling in is loads better than a random shuffle-through at the climax of a scenario.
Abierzen |
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So far, I'm likeing the thought process of coming to decide on an easier way to use/remember Boons we've acquired; yet, I do have a couple of misgivings:
1. It really hurts that a boon I have acquired (especially after we've acquired several) will then make these rewards mostly a mute point. Having to only slot 6 is extremely restrictive (especially when you have boons that grant multiple boons). Now, instead of ignoring boons that really wouldn't help a particular character build, now I have to decide if I really want wo.rthwhile boons that will increasingly become obsolete over time and/or never used because I'm extremely limited on selection
2. After giving a briefing, the GM will then identify certain boons that may help in the scenario? We are now throwing the entire purpose of RPGing out the door and adding metagaming into a story of adventure and discovery. We dont play RPGs to have the GM or VO to then ruin the surprise by telling us what we should equip/slot that is completely outside of an in game/ RPG'd briefing. We mays as well quit PFS / SFS and switch to just the card game.
a. A character has been to Absolom Station before and built some renown with its citizens. Now I come back but because I really think I needed to slot a different social boon, I suddenly have no renown with the selected group in improve my negotiating skill rolls. That's rather preposterous and unrealistic. It's one thing if the Player forgets he had that boon but to have PFS Coordinators metagame our sudden brain fart -- really? That's how we want to proceed?
b. What we really need, as players, is:
I. A separate document/notes sumerizing our boons so that can be seen easier by the player.
II. Or, Paizo needs to ditch giving out so many boons that we will never, ever get a chance to use because we have been limited and forbidden to use said knowledge when needed as the boons we designed for .... time for Paizo to come up with an entirely new reward system because we are going to be absolutely cheated out of the use of those we get now
Velisruna Venture-Agent, Washington—Bothell |
2. After giving a briefing, the GM will then identify certain boons that may help in the scenario? We are now throwing the entire purpose of RPGing out the door and adding metagaming into a story of adventure and discovery. We dont play RPGs to have the GM or VO to then ruin the surprise by telling us what we should equip/slot that is completely outside of an in game/ RPG'd briefing. We mays as well quit PFS / SFS and switch to just the card game.
This will likely work almost exactly the same as current scenarios that reference earlier ones. In some scenarios the GM should check if the players have played X scenario and gotten Y boon on it (at least 3 off the top of my head, not including direct series) that reflect an interaction with a character or other plot element. It is not "metagamey;" it is continuity that would feel less immersive if it didn't exist. It could only be metagamey if you knew ahead of time it would be relevant and brought the character who played it before specifically to use the boon, and that's metagame I can live with. It would feel even worse to miss out on story or continuity just because I brought the wrong character. It also is unlikely to spoil anything since you are asked to pick boons AFTER the briefing. You will likely have a good idea that some plot element will come up again if it isn't directly stated in the briefing itself.
Abierzen |
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This will likely work almost exactly the same as current scenarios that reference earlier ones. In some scenarios the GM should check if the players have played X scenario and gotten Y boon on it (at least 3 off the top of my head, not including direct series) that reflect an interaction with a character or other plot element. It is not "metagamey;" it is continuity that would feel less immersive if it didn't exist. It could only be metagamey if you knew ahead of time it would be relevant and brought the character who played it before specifically to use the boon, and that's metagame I can live with. It would feel even worse to miss out on story or continuity just because I brought the wrong character. It also is unlikely to spoil anything since you are asked to pick boons AFTER the briefing. You will likely have a good idea that some plot element will come up again if it isn't directly stated in the briefing itself.
It is metagaming if, for example, the GM suggests we have a particular skill (or weapon type) which would be extremely helpful for, let's siay, kill a demon, which are not normally found in the area we are going to. To give any kind of hint like that is, by definition, metagaming.
And to miss out because you brought the wrong character? That's metagaming and min/maxing. RPGs are there to discover. If we fail because the party isn't right, so be it... but that's the thrill of RPGs.... we have to discover what we need to succeed. To already come in with pre-knowledge and prepared due to it, defeats the entire purpose of playing ... the same reasons a player replaying a scenario must not spill any beans., because it ruins the adventure for those who have never played it before.
Andy Brown |
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I've had a PFS scenario saved by one player suddenly remembering they've got a one-shot boon that really wouldn't have seemed relevant until we got to that particular encounter, and then another player saying "Hey, I've got that, too." Without those late additions to party ability we'd have been rather badly stomped.
While I understand John's point about making it easier to balance against party power level, this mechanism would (apparently) take away the chance of that sort of sudden turn-around happening.
As a mechanism it's an OK solution to the power level problem, but doesn't seem to be a good fix for the issues in the original post, for the reasons various people have mentioned, particularly taking the problem of somebody occasionally holding the game up to hunt through their chronicle stack (which can be avoided by making yourself a cheat sheet, and actually planning ahead), and forcing a break in every game while everybody hunts through their chronicle stack.
I think I'd rather see those sort of conditional bonus boons severely limited or removed completely.
Davor Firetusk |
Practice may end up different, but something to strongly consider is that by creating an actual formal boon system for the first time there is a a system to work from while designing boons. So I suspect that many of the things people are worried about losing access to will just not exist under the Starfinder system. The boons will be designed to be useful under the system by and large. I'd much rather have to make a choice at the beginning of the scenario with some idea of what is expected (not metagaming) about whether or not to slot say a technology boon that gives me access to an experimental voice enhancer that gives me a +1 on diplomacy checks or some kind of experimental patch to my environmental suit to grant a +1 on survival checks.
Compared to having a reputation with the Slestaks of Castronevel that gives a +2 on bluff, intimidate, and diplomacy at the same time I also have a random bonus to survival checks while in the Drift. Both in practice and in reality most existing boons are too specific to use more then 3 in a scenario and that includes the ones that unlock race/ prestige class options. I'd be stunned if I ever used a full 6 boons in 1 scenario.