Demigods of Bestiary 6

Thursday, March 23, 2017

With the reveal of Pathfinder RPG: Bestiary 6's fiendishly ferocious cover last week, the time is finally right to start looking INSIDE of this book... or should I say the STARS are right? Because yes indeed we've got three more of Lovecraft's Great Old Ones appearing in this book. In fact, one of the recurring themes you'll notice right away (it's right there on the cover) is that we're including more statistics for demigods in Bestiary 6 than any other bestiary we've done. Now, obviously a stat block for a creature of CR 26 to CR 30 in power isn't going to be useful for every game, but that's not the only way to use a demigod in your game. These are foes not only intended to be the end bosses for full-on mythic campaigns, but movers and shakers for multiple campaigns. Demigods work best when they're NOT just stacks of hit points for your players to deplete... but printing statistics for them helps to quantify in a player's mind just how powerful they really are. In addition, each demigod entry is fully supported with rules for how their worshipers function, including information on cleric domains, subdomains, and favored weapons. We've also added a new appendix to this bestiary at the very end that reprints several domains and subdomains that have never before been printed in the RPG line, making it easier than ever to play a character who wants to use powers from the Scalykind domain or the Revelry subdomain, for example.

But enough about that. The point of this blog (and the next several to come over the following weeks) is to show off some art!

In Bestiary 6, we've got 4 categories of demigod represented—archdevils, empyreal lords, Great Old Ones, and the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. We've also got representation from the next tier down—so called "quasi deities" like qlippoth lords or the verdant Green Man. I've chosen three of these to illustrate below, focusing on new illustrations for each: the archdevil Baalzebul, the aforementioned Green Man (of which there are multiples—some neutral, some good, and some evil), and Tawil at'Umr.

Illustrations by William Liu, David Melvin, and Will O'Brien

Actually, that last one's a somewhat unusual case. As an avatar of Yog-Sothoth, Tawil at'Umr has never really been quantified as a Great Old One before, but the Lovecraft mythos are nothing if not mutable and accommodating. And rather than invent a brand new category of demigod, I decided that this eldritch master of time and space would work best in the Great Old One category. He (she? they?) certainly fits into the category, rules-wise, with the ability to kill you in your dreams only to immediately reincarnate you into a new body on another world, or the power to hurl those who gaze upon its true form into their own permanent microcosms. Tawil at'Umr was first introduced to the world in "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" by H. P. Lovecraft and E. Hoffmann Price. In the story, the entity is referred to as 'Umr at-Tawil, but in Bestiary 6 I decided to shift the name around a little to match Chaosium's preferred (and more grammatically correct when one interprets the name as being inspired by the Arabic language) version used in their Call of Cthulhu RPG, but just like all of these mythos monstrosities, changes to names or roles in world likely won't matter if your character decides to throw down against them. Tawil at'Umr is probably the toughest monster in the book, and in fact, might be the toughest monster we've ever statted up in a bestiary. He's "only" CR 30, but as an avatar of Yog-Sothoth, killing it isn't gonna stop it. From the Great Old One's Immortality entry in it's stat block:

"If Tawil at'Umr is killed, Yog-Sothoth can create a new avatar immediately. The replacement Tawil at'Umr typically does not reappear where it was killed, and it usually does not seek revenge against those who slew its predecessor. Usually."

James Jacobs
Creative Director

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Tags: Bestiary 6 David Melvin Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Will O'Brien William Liu
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Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
The filth-encrusted slug monster didn't do it for you, I take it. ^_^
His wives on the other hand...
What wives? I didn't see them in any artwork.
I think they illustrated his current one at least once. If not the descriptions alone were very nice :3
This interests me. Do you happen to remember where I could find this? Thanks.

*scratches head*

It was either Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, or Fiendish Codex 2. That's the only Devil book I can think of off the top of my head.

I just specifically remember reading that one was very self-conscious about her entire back was ivory or silver.


Hopefully one of these coming previews will have something about the wild hunt.

Silver Crusade

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The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I just hope the green man is actually a fey.
Turns out he's a dragon.

Rysky, you have a talent for comments...

Through I would love quasi-deity level dragons, I'm hoping they are plants. The green nature needs more champions and denizens.

^w^

Dragons can be champions of nature!


The Gold Sovereign wrote:
I'm really curious about Szuriel and Raghatiel's illustration. In fact, these two are the ones I want to see the most, even more than I want to see the true dragons or Geryon......

There already is an awesome Szuriel pic out there. Not sure what book it's in though.

Mammon is the arch-devil I want to see the most. I liked the old art but it could use a minor mod or two. He is my favourite arch-devil not initially but recently I read all his lore and that changed.

Probably most interested in Arshea's art as the previous art in my opinion did not match the description. Tempted to do my own to see just how to how far off the mark I'll be. I need a colourist though. ;)


Rysky wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
The filth-encrusted slug monster didn't do it for you, I take it. ^_^
His wives on the other hand...
What wives? I didn't see them in any artwork.
I think they illustrated his current one at least once. If not the descriptions alone were very nice :3
This interests me. Do you happen to remember where I could find this? Thanks.

*scratches head*

It was either Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, or Fiendish Codex 2. That's the only Devil book I can think of off the top of my head.

I just specifically remember reading that one was very self-conscious about her entire back was ivory or silver.

Oh I thought you were talking just about Pathfinder lore.

I do have at least one of those books. I will have to take a look in them I don't remember it being in the Book of Vile Darkness though. Thanks.


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She is in Rasputin Must Die!. :-)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
The filth-encrusted slug monster didn't do it for you, I take it. ^_^
His wives on the other hand...
What wives? I didn't see them in any artwork.
I think they illustrated his current one at least once. If not the descriptions alone were very nice :3
This interests me. Do you happen to remember where I could find this? Thanks.

*scratches head*

It was either Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, or Fiendish Codex 2. That's the only Devil book I can think of off the top of my head.

I just specifically remember reading that one was very self-conscious about her entire back was ivory or silver.

Oh I thought you were talking just about Pathfinder lore.

I do have at least one of those books. I will have to take a look in them I don't remember it being in the Book of Vile Darkness though. Thanks.

Ah no, sorry, I was just talking about 3.5 stuff since Kali mentioned the slug form >_<

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lemartes wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
I'm really curious about Szuriel and Raghatiel's illustration. In fact, these two are the ones I want to see the most, even more than I want to see the true dragons or Geryon......
There already is an awesome Szuriel pic out there. Not sure what book it's in though.

Rasputin Must Die!

Edit: ninjaed by Cap'n


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
The filth-encrusted slug monster didn't do it for you, I take it. ^_^
His wives on the other hand...
What wives? I didn't see them in any artwork.
I think they illustrated his current one at least once. If not the descriptions alone were very nice :3
This interests me. Do you happen to remember where I could find this? Thanks.

*scratches head*

It was either Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, or Fiendish Codex 2. That's the only Devil book I can think of off the top of my head.

I just specifically remember reading that one was very self-conscious about her entire back was ivory or silver.

Oh I thought you were talking just about Pathfinder lore.

I do have at least one of those books. I will have to take a look in them I don't remember it being in the Book of Vile Darkness though. Thanks.

Ah no, sorry, I was just talking about 3.5 stuff since Kali mentioned the slug form >_<

I need to brush up on my Pathfinder lore as I thought he was still a slug. :(

Thanks Cap!


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I put in another vote for the Green being plants
Imagine if they're huge plants one may actually be able to become them
That'd be kewl.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:

"In addition, each demigod entry is fully supported with rules for how their worshipers function[...]"

And given who's going to be showing up, it's fairly safe to say I'm extremely excited.

"These are foes not only intended to be the end bosses for full-on mythic campaigns, but movers and shakers for multiple campaigns."

Ooo...

Will there be advice on how to apply this?!

Apart from the brief advice I wrote for the intro for Demon Lords in Bestiary 4, not really... although you can look to some of our Adventure Paths for how to include demigods as plots.

You mean "stop the ritual," or "debuff the enemy?" That...doesn't really say "mover and shaker."

Also, given the inclusion of a certain empyreal lord, I'm interested in seeing demigods as allies as well as antagonists. It's gonna be a while before Daily Bestiary gets to them, and Daily Planescape just isn't enough.

That said, would Wrath of the Righteous be a good place for examples of demigods as allies?

It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.

Any game where you have a PC cleric who worships a demigod you have a good example of a demigod as an ally. A game where a demigod shows up in person to help the PCs is tricky, because demigods are so powerful that runs a very very very real risk of turning the players into observers while the GM talks to themselves. That's no fun.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:
I just hope the green man is actually a fey.

The Green Man is a plant. And while we used the real world mythology and lore about the Green Man as a starting point, as is obvious from the art, we made changes... as we do with most creatures we adapt from mythology to a certain extent.

There are plenty of other powerful fey in the book though, between the whisperer and the various members of the Wild Hunt.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Rysky wrote:
Lemartes wrote:
Rysky wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
The filth-encrusted slug monster didn't do it for you, I take it. ^_^
His wives on the other hand...
What wives? I didn't see them in any artwork.
I think they illustrated his current one at least once. If not the descriptions alone were very nice :3
This interests me. Do you happen to remember where I could find this? Thanks.

*scratches head*

It was either Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, or Fiendish Codex 2. That's the only Devil book I can think of off the top of my head.

I just specifically remember reading that one was very self-conscious about her entire back was ivory or silver.

None of which are anything we can do anything with. If you want more info on that version of devil lore, you need to check out Wizards of the Coast and D&D products.


Since we're getting more mythic appropriate monsters does that mean we'll be getting more mythic character support? Especially for the occult classes?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Haldelar Baxter wrote:
Since we're getting more mythic appropriate monsters does that mean we'll be getting more mythic character support? Especially for the occult classes?

Not in a Bestiary. And in fact, there's technically no mythic monsters in Bestiary 6 at all. There are plenty of high CR monsters, and some of them have powers associated with Mythic Adventures, but there are no monsters in this book that have "MR" in their title.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
Yog is an OG.
As in the acronym for, Yup, Outer God.

Personally, I was enjoying seeing him with a black Compton hat, black wind breaker jacket and full dark shades. But sure, we can go with Outer God. ;)


James Jacobs wrote:

The Green Man is a plant. And while we used the real world mythology and lore about the Green Man as a starting point, as is obvious from the art, we made changes... as we do with most creatures we adapt from mythology to a certain extent.

There are plenty of other powerful fey in the book though, between the whisperer and the various members of the Wild Hunt.

VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE WILD HUNT! *-*

Awesome, Mr. Jacobs!

Happy to hear that the Green Man IS a plant, but I'm assuming this "IS" means it is a non unique creature, am I right?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

The Green Man is a plant. And while we used the real world mythology and lore about the Green Man as a starting point, as is obvious from the art, we made changes... as we do with most creatures we adapt from mythology to a certain extent.

There are plenty of other powerful fey in the book though, between the whisperer and the various members of the Wild Hunt.

VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE WILD HUNT! *-*

Awesome, Mr. Jacobs!

Happy to hear that the Green Man IS a plant, but I'm assuming this "IS" means it is a non unique creature, am I right?

The green man is not a unique creature.


Disappointed to hear that the green man is a plant.

I also find it strange that a book with so many demi-gods and none of them have any mythic ranks.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

I'm guessing that most of them function like the demon lords we've already seen - fully charged with mythic power, but only when in their home realms.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm very happy to see the book mythic-free. Not really into learning a whole new system so that I can run some iconic high-end threats.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Dragon78 wrote:

Disappointed to hear that the green man is a plant.

I also find it strange that a book with so many demi-gods and none of them have any mythic ranks.

We have never given demigods mythic ranks.


James Jacobs wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:

"In addition, each demigod entry is fully supported with rules for how their worshipers function[...]"

And given who's going to be showing up, it's fairly safe to say I'm extremely excited.

"These are foes not only intended to be the end bosses for full-on mythic campaigns, but movers and shakers for multiple campaigns."

Ooo...

Will there be advice on how to apply this?!

Apart from the brief advice I wrote for the intro for Demon Lords in Bestiary 4, not really... although you can look to some of our Adventure Paths for how to include demigods as plots.

You mean "stop the ritual," or "debuff the enemy?" That...doesn't really say "mover and shaker."

Also, given the inclusion of a certain empyreal lord, I'm interested in seeing demigods as allies as well as antagonists. It's gonna be a while before Daily Bestiary gets to them, and Daily Planescape just isn't enough.

That said, would Wrath of the Righteous be a good place for examples of demigods as allies?

It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.

Any game where you have a PC cleric who worships a demigod you have a good example of a demigod as an ally. A game where a demigod shows up in person to help the PCs is tricky, because demigods are so powerful that runs a very very very real risk of turning the players into observers while the GM talks to themselves. That's no fun.

Whoops, overlooked the active cult thing...

As for a demigod showing up in person, how'd you feel you did with Noctictula?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AlgaeNymph wrote:


As for a demigod showing up in person, how'd you feel you did with Noctictula?

I feel I did well enough.


James Jacobs wrote:
We have never given demigods mythic ranks.

Really? I haven't notice. Can we know why?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:
It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.

When you can replace the demigod with the word "Orange" because it's actually his cult which are the movers and shakers, it doesn't really feel like the demigod is the one who's moving and shaking.


Guess it all comes up to how good you are at "GMing".


I thought Baalzebul is supposed to made completely of flies not just his wings?


James Jacobs wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

The Green Man is a plant. And while we used the real world mythology and lore about the Green Man as a starting point, as is obvious from the art, we made changes... as we do with most creatures we adapt from mythology to a certain extent.

There are plenty of other powerful fey in the book though, between the whisperer and the various members of the Wild Hunt.

VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE WILD HUNT! *-*

Awesome, Mr. Jacobs!

Happy to hear that the Green Man IS a plant, but I'm assuming this "IS" means it is a non unique creature, am I right?

The green man is not a unique creature.

I am now deeply excited to see if plant form III has a kewl new candidate xD


Milo v3 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.
When you can replace the demigod with the word "Orange" because it's actually his cult which are the movers and shakers, it doesn't really feel like the demigod is the one who's moving and shaking.

My thoughts exactly. Of course, we then get to the problem of the demigod becoming too active and taking the spotlight from the PCs. (Like that other game line did. You know the one. No, the other one.) The obvious solution, then, is to have the demigod be the PC.


Isn't that basically what high level mythic characters are? Stopping time for hours per day and granting spells to their worshippers?
And I'm pretty sure that monk just brained Kostchtchie


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

James Jacobs, I was pondering something about the Demon Lords and I'll use Nocticula as my example. So She is a CR 30 being and Demon Lords are not Mythic. But within her Abyssal Rift She has counts as being MR 10. So does that mean while in the Midnight Isles she is considered to be CR 35? Please explain and elaborate.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Prince Setehrael wrote:
James Jacobs, I was pondering something about the Demon Lords and I'll use Nocticula as my example. So She is a CR 30 being and Demon Lords are not Mythic. But within her Abyssal Rift She has counts as being MR 10. So does that mean while in the Midnight Isles she is considered to be CR 35? Please explain and elaborate.

I do realize that this may be something that has already been discuss, but I haven't seen anything to confirm anything yet and Just something I'd like to get confirmed. I also assume that this would also apply to all over Demigods as well.

Silver Crusade

I am looking forward to this!


Hmm, me say looks good..:-)


I have been hoping to see a 0HD version of the Thriae or the Formians, as we don't have any insect-like/vermin playable races... Now that the entothrope was said to be a insect version of the lycanthrope by some members of the messageboard, I'm pretty excited about them.

Can we have a preview of the entothrope template? Hope it's a template to turn creatures into verminous hybrids or the vermin into insect-like humanoids *-*


Well Starfinder is getting a insect based player race.


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The Gold Sovereign wrote:

I have been hoping to see a 0HD version of the Thriae or the Formians, as we don't have any insect-like/vermin playable races... Now that the entothrope was said to be a insect version of the lycanthrope by some members of the messageboard, I'm pretty excited about them.

Can we have a preview of the entothrope template? Hope it's a template to turn creatures into verminous hybrids or the vermin into insect-like humanoids *-*

The trox are insect-like, though I'd prefer a race that's less about smashing things myself...


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Milo v3 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.
When you can replace the demigod with the word "Orange" because it's actually his cult which are the movers and shakers, it doesn't really feel like the demigod is the one who's moving and shaking.

If the orange can actually grant prayers and sound forth resources and soldiers from its extra-dimensional realm where it gathers and transfigures the souls of its followers, then yeah, the orange is a demigod.

The cult that's working to overthrow and enslave your kingdom is just another side-project for whatever fiendish lord that's directing it. Something weird has to happen for your group of adventurers to actually merit the demigod's personal attention.

For example, the cult of Kostchtchie is reasonably active on any planet that possesses (a) cold weather, (b) frost giants, (c) misogyny, and/or (d) arcane magic.

Kostchtchie's first primary goal is becoming the sole god of the frost giants - but his other primary goals are the utter subjugation of all women across the multiverse and the eradication of all arcane casters (with priority to the female ones).

And he has shockingly good luck finding recruits to his cause that want to carry out those latter two goals. And in exchange for their souls and loyalty, Kostchtchie grants them power (spells, obedience boons, templates, etc.) so that they can better carry out his terrible will.

And he's doing this across hundreds of locations over hundreds of worlds.

He can only be in 1 place at a time, so Kotchtchie's personal touch is limited, but that's what minions and worshipers are for.


Dragon78 wrote:
Well Starfinder is getting a insect based player race.

And I'm really happy about it! ;)

In my homebrew, I have created a LE Eldest of insects (of course), slavery and conquest. Her worshipers are first world formians and thriaes. I have been using the formian worker as a 0HD race (as suggested in People of the Star), but an insect race with more rules/options support would be really useful.

Zhangar wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.
When you can replace the demigod with the word "Orange" because it's actually his cult which are the movers and shakers, it doesn't really feel like the demigod is the one who's moving and shaking.

If the orange can actually grant prayers and sound forth resources and soldiers from its extra-dimensional realm where it gathers and transfigures the souls of its followers, then yeah, the orange is a demigod.

The cult that's working to overthrow and enslave your kingdom is just another side-project for whatever fiendish lord that's directing it. Something weird has to happen for your group of adventurers to actually merit the demigod's personal attention.

For example, the cult of Kostchtchie is reasonably active on any planet that possesses (a) cold weather, (b) frost giants, (c) misogyny, and/or (d) arcane magic.

Kostchtchie's first primary goal is becoming the sole god of the frost giants - but his other primary goals are the utter subjugation of all women across the multiverse and the eradication of all arcane casters (with priority to the female ones).

And he has shockingly good luck finding recruits to his cause that want to carry out those latter two goals. And in exchange for their souls and loyalty, Kostchtchie grants them power (spells, obedience boons, templates, etc.) so that they can better carry out his terrible will.

And he's doing this across hundreds of locations over hundreds of worlds.

He can only be in 1 place at a time, so Kotchtchie's personal touch is limited, but that's what minions and worshipers are for.

Minios! For you can't have your 1st level players confronting a Demigod right from the start.

I'm sure Mr. Jacobs meant to say that a demigod doesn't need to be a foe in combat to be the main antagonist of the setting.

Serpent's Skull, Reign of Winter, Iron Gods, Hell's Rebels and, of course, Strange Aeons are good examples of "non mythic" adventures where we are facing "demigods" or even a God itself. Baba Yaga, Hastur, Mephistopheles, Unit, Xhamen-Dor and Ydersius, that are the demigods and GOD I'm talking about.

While we aren't directly facing than, we are working against or with their minions and forces. That's enough to call than "mover and/or shaker of the setting".


The way I see it, judging but what we see here and elsewhere
The iconics will be:
Human envoy
Vesk soldier
Ysoki mechanic
Android operative
Kasatha technomancer
Lashunta mystic
And the yet known race as a solarion

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Prince Setehrael wrote:
James Jacobs, I was pondering something about the Demon Lords and I'll use Nocticula as my example. So She is a CR 30 being and Demon Lords are not Mythic. But within her Abyssal Rift She has counts as being MR 10. So does that mean while in the Midnight Isles she is considered to be CR 35? Please explain and elaborate.

She's CR 30 regardless of where she's encountered. That's as high as CR scores officially go. She doesn't have mythic ranks, but is treated as a mythic creature.

In fact, in all cases, the CR score listed for any monster or NPC in a book we publish is the actual CR score. I personally think including the "MR" value for mythic creatures is confusing, since knowing that value is not necessary to use the monster in a game—it's merely a guideline used when creating a mythic monster using the mythic rules.


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Milo v3 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
It does to me. If a demigod has a cult that is super active in a setting and/or has an agent that has a significant impact on the world, that demigod is a mover and/or shaker of the setting.
When you can replace the demigod with the word "Orange" because it's actually his cult which are the movers and shakers, it doesn't really feel like the demigod is the one who's moving and shaking.

Do you consider political and military leaders not to be "movers and shakers" because they send subordinates and agents to implement their agendas? Was Julius Caesar actually a chump because he didn't personally kill tens of thousands of Gauls and Romans? "Those silly legions, there they go again! What crazy hijinks will they independently undertake next?"


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Zhangar wrote:
If the orange can actually grant prayers and sound forth resources and soldiers from its extra-dimensional realm where it gathers and transfigures the souls of its followers, then yeah, the orange is a demigod.

In any setting aside from golarion, orange can do that.

Quote:

The cult that's working to overthrow and enslave your kingdom is just another side-project for whatever fiendish lord that's directing it. Something weird has to happen for your group of adventurers to actually merit the demigod's personal attention.

For example, the cult of Kostchtchie is reasonably active on any planet that possesses (a) cold weather, (b) frost giants, (c) misogyny, and/or (d) arcane magic.

Kostchtchie's first primary goal is becoming the sole god of the frost giants - but his other primary goals are the utter subjugation of all women across the multiverse and the eradication of all arcane casters (with priority to the female ones).

And he has shockingly good luck finding recruits to his cause that want to carry out those latter two goals. And in exchange for their souls and loyalty, Kostchtchie grants them power (spells, obedience boons, templates, etc.) so that they can better carry out his terrible will.

And he's doing this across hundreds of locations over hundreds of worlds.

He can only be in 1 place at a time, so Kotchtchie's personal touch is limited, but that's what minions and worshipers are for.

The lack of personal touch is the issue. Kotchtchie doesn't feel like a mover and shaker if he is orcus on his throne never actually doing anything.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:


Do you consider political and military leaders not to be "movers and shakers" because they send subordinates and agents to implement their agendas? Was Julius Caesar actually a chump because he didn't personally kill tens of thousands of Gauls and Romans? "Those silly legions, there they go again! What crazy hijinks will they independently undertake next?"

I actually wish demigods and gods were treated in RPG's abit more like they handle political and military figures. In an RPG, if the king of a certain country is the villain of your campaign you likely are going interact with him and he's going to interact to your presence, you can meet that figure in person, if you do stuff which causes issues to you he could putting in laws which try to hold you back or make you criminals. You can see how that figure is impacting the world. Demigods on the otherhand in most published campaigns (I'm sure there are exceptions to this though, I just haven't seen them) are treated basically as distant as Gods despite the fact they have the perfect oppertunity to actually have that deific figure have a presence rather than just being a supernatural equivalent to "the cult leader had a hallucination".


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:


Stuff

I think this sort of set up works great in books, movies, etc, which have a fixed narrative path. But in the case of the demigod...if Orcus is interacting with the opposed PC's starting, say at level 5? why does he not utterly curb stomp them?

Also RPG adventure paths tend to keep the main antagonists offscreen simply to keep random PCs from blowing up the plot by trying to fight folks way way way above their ability to handle, or otherwise just mess things up.


MMCJawa wrote:

I think this sort of set up works great in books, movies, etc, which have a fixed narrative path. But in the case of the demigod...if Orcus is interacting with the opposed PC's starting, say at level 5? why does he not utterly curb stomp them?

Also RPG adventure paths tend to keep the main antagonists offscreen simply to keep random PCs from blowing up the plot by trying to fight folks way way way above their ability to handle, or otherwise just mess things up.

Adventure Paths are innately limited in that way because things which the players cannot conceivably beat basically don't exist in that point so newbie players don't get themselves all killed by accident and so the latter parts of the adventure still work, which is why I don't think they're a good example of demigods as movers and shakers.

Outside of adventure paths it's a lot easier to do it, but adventure path writers don't have that opportunity, they have their hands tied in regards to this topic. The players in my current campaign will probably meet a demigod in another session or two and they're only level 4.

With that orcus situation, I'd probably handle that sorta like meeting mob bosses and gangsters in movies works. Yes they can probably kill you on the spot, but they wont if they might have use of you in some way, if they are amused by you and don't see you as an actual threat, or if they think killing you will cause them too much trouble with one of their enemies.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:

"In addition, each demigod entry is fully supported with rules for how their worshipers function[...]"

And given who's going to be showing up, it's fairly safe to say I'm extremely excited.

"These are foes not only intended to be the end bosses for full-on mythic campaigns, but movers and shakers for multiple campaigns."

Ooo...

Will there be advice on how to apply this?!

Apart from the brief advice I wrote for the intro for Demon Lords in Bestiary 4, not really... although you can look to some of our Adventure Paths for how to include demigods as plots.

You mean "stop the ritual," or "debuff the enemy?" That...doesn't really say "mover and shaker."

Also, given the inclusion of a certain empyreal lord, I'm interested in seeing demigods as allies as well as antagonists. It's gonna be a while before Daily Bestiary gets to them, and Daily Planescape just isn't enough.

That said, would Wrath of the Righteous be a good place for examples of demigods as allies?

Note to Self: Include more Arshea in Daily Planescape.

Trust me, no one's more unhappy with the rate I pump out post than me. I am so excited by Bestiary 6 and Book of the Damned though! The planes, they are a coming. Did we ever find out what the other two Great Old Ones were?


FallenDabus wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:

"In addition, each demigod entry is fully supported with rules for how their worshipers function[...]"

And given who's going to be showing up, it's fairly safe to say I'm extremely excited.

"These are foes not only intended to be the end bosses for full-on mythic campaigns, but movers and shakers for multiple campaigns."

Ooo...

Will there be advice on how to apply this?!

Apart from the brief advice I wrote for the intro for Demon Lords in Bestiary 4, not really... although you can look to some of our Adventure Paths for how to include demigods as plots.

You mean "stop the ritual," or "debuff the enemy?" That...doesn't really say "mover and shaker."

Also, given the inclusion of a certain empyreal lord, I'm interested in seeing demigods as allies as well as antagonists. It's gonna be a while before Daily Bestiary gets to them, and Daily Planescape just isn't enough.

That said, would Wrath of the Righteous be a good place for examples of demigods as allies?

Note to Self: Include more Arshea in Daily Planescape.

Trust me, no one's more unhappy with the rate I pump out post than me. I am so excited by Bestiary 6 and Book of the Damned though! The planes, they are a coming. Did we ever find out what the other two Great Old Ones were?

Unfortunately not yet. No new about the Great Old Ones, just that they aren't the ones designed for Pathfinder by Mr. Jacobs.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, James did say they were both Lovecraft's creations. If we play the elimination game, that likely leaves only Rhan-Tegoth and Yig remaining. The only two other GOOs that Pathfinder has mentioned that lack stats are Mhar and Orgesh, both of whom are Paizo originals.

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