The Monster Within

"Devolutionist druids devolve animals and humanoids into feral ancestors (including their animal companion, a devolved humanoid)"

That might be the prime reason I'm buying this!

Agreed! That has got to be one of the most sick and awesome druid ideas I've heard in a long time.

Is it just me or does the material of this manual seem to favor evil-aligned PC's more than good-aligned PC's. If so, that kinda bothers me.

Question for Mark:

I assume the Corruption progresses in individual increments. How many would it take before a character is fully corrupted?

Oh Man... "Vile dog transformation transforms dogs into horrific servitors, and they dissolve into a stinking pile of gore and bones at the end of the spell (if the dog trusts you, it takes a -4 penalty on its save to avoid being transformed)" You Monsters!!!

Yeah, those poor dogs. I wonder why we get no vile cat transformation spell? Is it because cats are already evil and don't listen to anyone?

The cat would cast the spell on you.

Kineticists gain the elemental whispers wild talents, which allow them to make friends with a voice in their head and even manifest it.

Between this wild talent and the primal magic one in Occult Realms, my Telekineticist in Emerald Spire is losing opportunities to take wild talents from the Occult Adventures book! Stahp it! >.<

Is it just me or does the material of this manual seem to favor evil-aligned PC's more than good-aligned PC's. If so, that kinda bothers me.

Evil NPCs, good or neutral PCs tempted by dark power, and at least one Paladin archetype if the write-up is to be believed...

Horror presumes a bit of darkness, and this hardly seems overboard.

Berselius wrote:

Is it just me or does the material of this manual seem to favor evil-aligned PC's more than good-aligned PC's. If so, that kinda bothers me.

Evil NPCs, good or neutral PCs tempted by dark power, and at least one Paladin archetype if the write-up is to be believed...

Horror presumes a bit of darkness, and this hardly seems overboard.

I agree.

Plus good characters resisting corruption and struggling with temptations of power is what makes good characters good...and appealing.

So it all depends on how you look at it.

Get your righteousness and unblemished purity off my Berserk-reenactment material.

PS: Let me know if there is a vile horse transformation spell... I need it for reasons...

Berselius wrote:

Is it just me or does the material of this manual seem to favor evil-aligned PC's more than good-aligned PC's. If so, that kinda bothers me.

Evil NPCs, good or neutral PCs tempted by dark power, and at least one Paladin archetype if the write-up is to be believed...

Horror presumes a bit of darkness, and this hardly seems overboard.

Those plus abilities to fight against the darkness, great for goodly (or neutral) PCs. More material than usual is darker, and even evil, but certainly there's more material for players that isn't necessarily evil than the material that is necessarily evil.

Question for Mark:

I assume the Corruption progresses in individual increments. How many would it take before a character is fully corrupted?

There's essentially two axes of progression; there's how many manifestations you have (your "manifestation level) and how far your catalyst has progressed towards fully corrupting you. Theoretically, you could reach a high manifestation level without progressing your catalyst very much, though in practice, this is tough because increasing your manifestation level increases the DC to avoid progressing your catalyst.

DeciusNero wrote:

"Devolutionist druids devolve animals and humanoids into feral ancestors (including their animal companion, a devolved humanoid)"

That might be the prime reason I'm buying this!

Agreed! That has got to be one of the most sick and awesome druid ideas I've heard in a long time.

There's also (announced at Paizocon) a death druid, which believes in life and death as a natural cycle and has a phantom. And there's another one that's also pretty horrific and cool, but you'll have to wait to see what it is; I actually really like the ideas behind all three of the druid archetypes.

Corruptions sound really fun and at least from the sound of it the book seems to have a nice balance between horror content and stuff for the people who fight the horrors, good stuff.

If I didn't preview a class by name, it doesn't appear in that chapter.

Which I guess makes this like, the forty-first book without a brawler archetype or any brawler specific content? Oof.

Corruptions sound really fun and at least from the sound of it the book seems to have a nice balance between horror content and stuff for the people who fight the horrors, good stuff.

Mark Seifter wrote:

If I didn't preview a class by name, it doesn't appear in that chapter.

Which I guess makes this like, the forty-first book without a brawler archetype or any brawler specific content? Oof.

To quote Mark:

Having worked on developing the renegade, and playing a brawler myself, I think they're cool and deserve archetypes. I think they've just been off-theme lots of times in a row. They're specifically the non-mystical/theosophical/occult monk, so having an occult archetype would be weird, and they aren't skillsy enough to have made it onto the intrigue outline for archetypes, and wound up not having enough initial horror ideas to have carried a spread for the horror outline. Their best chance/closest shot was probably making it into the Other Class Archetypes section of intrigue; I would say their real best chance by far would have otherwise been to pick up an archetype in Other Class Archetypes for Horror, but Horror doesn't have one of those grab bag sections, and other classes had a lot of strong horror ideas on the outline.

That said, I don't concoct the outlines; this is based on speculation and looking at the finished outlines.

Oh I know, just keeping track of how long it takes, though I find the arguments about theming to be less than persuasive, since theming is half just how much effort you're willing to put into coming up with ideas for it. Plus I mean, the Brawler is practically flavored as an urban monk and yet it couldn't beat out its parent class (or the entire lineup of nature themed classes) in an urban book, so eh.

That's for another thread though. Still excited for HA.

Varun Creed wrote:

Will there be kineticist talents?

Indeed.

Quote:

Kineticists gain the elemental whispers wild talents, which allow them to make friends with a voice in their head and even manifest it.

I really like this one.

"I am perfectly fine. The voices in my head say so."

Will we be able to apply corruptions to animal companions?

Will we be able to apply corruptions to animal companions?

I don't think there's anything specific in the corruption rules that would prevent them from being applied to a pet if the pet triggered the catalyst, but in some cases, it might not make sense (a lycanthrope animal companion wolf that transforms from a wolf into a wolf on the full moon, a construct mount from the construct rider archetype with promethean or any of the biological ones, etc).

Mark, you are a campaign comic relief goldmine.

a lycanthrope animal companion wolf that transforms from a wolf into a wolf on the full moon

Moon Moon the Wolfwolf

a construct mount from the construct rider archetype with promethean

X-zibit's Monster.

The death clutch spell causes someone's heart to leap out into your hand

Sweet we're finally getting Clutch of Orcus reprinted into PF.

Hive is related to a new subtype of aberration created by a depraved annunaki; while normally hive larvae gestate in your body for sustenance and then kill you, a hive corrupted character has survived a rare metabolic symbiosis, gaining hive-related powers instead like a hive mind or acid blood.

Sweet we're gettin' Xenomorphs! Surprised I haven't seen more people geeking on this. Does this mean we will get monsters in this book as well including the Xenomorph and more?

...vile corruptions, where you have no control over the manifestations but can ignore the gifts to help you fight off the corruption's influence.

Care to elaborate on this more? As it stands this really doesn't make much sense. So you take a corruption, don't get any of its buffs, but get bonuses on saves against corruption?

Also:

It looks like our Alchemist finally found Qyburn's manuscripts. It's good to see him picking up a hobby. Not so good for Valeros though, think we'll start calling him... Vincent Mighty, Tough Vince?

Mark Seifter wrote:

...vile corruptions, where you have no control over the manifestations but can ignore the gifts to help you fight off the corruption's influence.

Care to elaborate on this more? As it stands this really doesn't make much sense. So you take a corruption, don't get any of its buffs, but get bonuses on saves against corruption?

Vile corruptions are an option for campaigns where corruptions are a horrid stain, as opposed to useful corruptions, which could lend itself to more of a "team monster rules!" boosted-power low-drawback variant, and the standard, which is somewhere in between.

doc the grey wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

...vile corruptions, where you have no control over the manifestations but can ignore the gifts to help you fight off the corruption's influence.

Care to elaborate on this more? As it stands this really doesn't make much sense. So you take a corruption, don't get any of its buffs, but get bonuses on saves against corruption?

Vile corruptions are an option for campaigns where corruptions are a horrid stain, as opposed to useful corruptions, which could lend itself to more of a "team monster rules!" boosted-power low-drawback variant, and the standard, which is somewhere in between.

Okay, but how exactly is it exhibiting that on a mechanical level? As it's presented it sounds like they really don't give you anything but a buff to fight corruptions which seems odd to burn book space on when I assume other preexisting feats fill that role (Iron Will etc.). If it's for narrative than how do these feats embody the concepts of a world where corruptions are even worse in ways that theme and narrative will not, what makes these corruptions so messed up that others will shriek in terror as compared to any of the others?

Mark Seifter wrote:

doc the grey wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

...vile corruptions, where you have no control over the manifestations but can ignore the gifts to help you fight off the corruption's influence.

Care to elaborate on this more? As it stands this really doesn't make much sense. So you take a corruption, don't get any of its buffs, but get bonuses on saves against corruption?

Vile corruptions are an option for campaigns where corruptions are a horrid stain, as opposed to useful corruptions, which could lend itself to more of a "team monster rules!" boosted-power low-drawback variant, and the standard, which is somewhere in between.

Okay, but how exactly is it exhibiting that on a mechanical level? As it's presented it sounds like they really don't give you anything but a buff to fight corruptions which seems odd to burn book space on when I assume other preexisting feats fill that role (Iron Will etc.). If it's for narrative than how do these feats embody the concepts of a world where corruptions are even worse in ways that theme and narrative will not, what makes these corruptions so messed up that others will shriek in terror as compared to any of the others?

They still give you the manifestation's stain (in normal mode, they each come with both a gift and a stain), so if you take the bonus to stave off your catalyst, you're also racking up all the bad stuff too.

Mark.... just so you know, I think this must be one of the most eagerly awaited books in a long time! :)))

The blood alchemist uses sentient lives to fuel her alchemy and can create alchemical circles like an occultist in order to apply formulas to an area instead of himself.

Sounds cool distilling the energy of life itself!... Now THATS chemistry!

The barbarian gains new rage powers including cult totem and daemon totem.

Daemon totem....Exceeeellent!

The cleric elder mythos cultist archetype is a cleric who uses Charisma instead of Wisdom and is rather insane.

Most looking forward to this Mark but you've got me very worried.... the clerics Will save has just been halved!! What has happened?!

Devolutionist druids devolve animals and humanoids into feral ancestors (including their animal companion, a devolved humanoid).

Great concept.... a sort of living undead for druids?? What goes up can also come down?!

Hexenhammer inquisitors mix blasphemous dark arts with their faith and must balance these transgressions with penance.

Ahhh.... PF flagellants!

Cult hunter investigators seek out horrific cults like your typical Lovecraft investigators

COC is alive and well Mr Seifter!

Will there be any kineticist specific feats and/or magic items?

Will there be any racial feats? This book sounds like a great place to give dhampir bat form, gaseous form, etc.

Are there any new sorcerer bloodlines, oracle mysteries, or phantom emotions?

I guess I will be the first to salute the new Halfling ability. Jolly just became Creepy

Sounds like a magnificent book

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

I think they'll be too busy dying to respond to you, unless someone casts regenerate on them within 1 round to reconstitute that heart you took.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

I think they'll be too busy dying to respond to you, unless someone casts regenerate on them within 1 round to reconstitute that heart you took.

I have done something like that when an enemy really pissed me off.

Knocked them out, cast CW, proceeded to be them back into unconsciousness with fists, cast CLW, repeat until I run out of spells.

Cause you can only save vs those for half *evil grin*

"Halfling Creepy Doll Hatemonger Mesmerist."

Excellent. So now I can play Chucky from Child's Play.

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

It'd have to be an NPC, because likely at the level you get death clutch they'd be able to make the inevitable Fortitude save. ;)

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

I think they'll be too busy dying to respond to you, unless someone casts regenerate on them within 1 round to reconstitute that heart you took.

You could slip a ring of regeneration on their finger first, then death clutch them, then repeat once the heart grew back, ad nauseam. Some might think that's a bit extreme just to work on developing snappy villain zingers, but if villainy was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Mark Seifter wrote:

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

I think they'll be too busy dying to respond to you, unless someone casts regenerate on them within 1 round to reconstitute that heart you took.

You could slip a ring of regeneration on their finger first, then death clutch them, then repeat once the heart grew back, ad nauseam. Some might think that's a bit extreme just to work on developing snappy villain zingers, but if villainy was easy, everyone would be doing it.

That would totally work; for extra villainy, make them an orc or something with the ability to stay conscious at negative hit points to make sure they stay conscious through the whole process to hear all your snappy villain zingers.

Eric Hinkle wrote:

I just want the death clutch spell for the next time someone tells one of my morally-challenged spellcasters that "You're heartless!"

"Nonsense." *Casts death clutch and the complainer's smoking and still beating heart appears in their hand.* "See? I have more of a heart than you do -- now."

It'd have to be an NPC, because likely at the level you get death clutch they'd be able to make the inevitable Fortitude save. ;)

That's why you cast touch of frailty first. >:)

There's essentially two axes of progression

Axe of progression: wot a barbarian uses to leevull up wiv. Two axes of progression meens levulling two times as fast. Wun in each 'and!

"Devolutionist druids devolve animals and humanoids into feral ancestors (including their animal companion, a devolved humanoid)"

That might be the prime reason I'm buying this!

I came here to say the same thing. That sounds AMAZING!

{. . .}

Witch killer slayers are experts in hunting and killing arcane spellcasters, including an ability called "burn the witch". {. . .}

I just have to ask: Does this ability involve a duck, by any chance?

A pair of gloves with mouths on the palms of them? How long 'til someone in Pathfinder says "talk to the hand 'cause the glove ain't listening"?

In Soviet Russia, hand talks to you!

Thanks for the preview, Mark! Glad to see that at least some of my favorite items made it to the book! :)

Hmm, I'm guessing that the Necrologist is an evil only Archetype given the description, yeah?

YAY!! Corruptions are awesome! :D

They make me a tad nervous - they're not like "Dark Powers checks" from RAVENLOFT (or the Law of Corruption from TORG), are they? There's a word for those....

Cool-sounding book, though. I've already ordered it (and dig that first picture - is that Valeros on the slab?).

"Halfling Creepy Doll Hatemonger Mesmerist."

Excellent. So now I can play Chucky from Child's Play.

Halflings need some kind of feat that builds on Childlike and involves bonnets, strollers, and cigars.

A pair of gloves with mouths on the palms of them? How long 'til someone in Pathfinder says "talk to the hand 'cause the glove ain't listening"?

How long until we get a pair of gloves with eye sockets in the palms?

{. . .} a small assortment of story feats (like Twisted Love, where a horrible creature is in love with you) {. . .}

Wait . . . Does this mean that if I manage to find someone to love, they get a bonus feat?

Blog Post wrote:

{. . .} a small assortment of story feats (like Twisted Love, where a horrible creature is in love with you) {. . .}

Wait . . . Does this mean that if I manage to find someone to love, they get a bonus feat?

I would like to know the answer to this as well.

Mark, you are a campaign comic relief goldmine.

Mark Seifter wrote:

a lycanthrope animal companion wolf that transforms from a wolf into a wolf on the full moon

Moon Moon the Wolfwolf

No, but seriously, like a halfling cavalier's wolf mount becoming a were dire wolf. Or a riding dog becoming a were dire wolf. I'd actually like to see some silly transformations like that. Maybe riding dog into were crocodile? Or riding dog into werebear, being LG and super protectful of its master?

The cleric elder mythos one sounds interesting.

Come on good Kineticist archetypes! Show your predecessors how it's done!

The cleric elder mythos one sounds interesting.

Being someone who is getting into Lovecraft I was really excited to see this..... but this is balanced with Paizo poor track record with cleric archetypes.

I dont want to be a negative Nancy but the fact that it is a CHA based cleric, for me is a big red warning light! The clerics Will save has just been halved straight away!! :(((

Dragon78 wrote:

The cleric elder mythos one sounds interesting.

Being someone who is getting into Lovecraft I was really excited to see this..... but this is balanced with Paizo poor track record with cleric archetypes.

I dont want to be a negative Nancy but the fact that it is a CHA based cleric, for me is a big red warning light! The clerics Will save has just been halved straight away!! :(((

I love it because it will make Channel more viable.

[

I love it because it will make Channel more viable.

I find Paizo attitude towards channeling absolutely bizarre.... its a massively sub-par ability due partly down to it being feat hungry and the cleric feat starved, and yet they continue to try and make it viable!?

I can't think of a bigger case of dead horse flogging in PF!!

They keep on bringing out sub-par channel feats when what they should be doing is giving clerics the option in more archetypes of trading it out completely for something more worthwhile!!!

Weird....truly weird (and sad for probably another doomed cleric archetype!)... :((

I mean, doomed is part of the appeal.

That being said, I doubt that anyone thinks the wizard, oracle or the sorcerer to be bad because they aren't wisdom based.