Catching Up, Looking Ahead

Friday, June 5, 2015

Whew! What a roller-coaster the last few weeks have been here at Paizo HQ and beyond! Two weeks ago from this moment we were deep in the throes of PaizoCon 2015, which is rapidly earning a place in my heart as the best PaizoCon to date! It's always such a wonderful experience getting to spend a weekend with Pathfinder players tossing dice and throwing back beers, and this year's show was no exception.

Actually, it was a bit of an exception in that the new, larger hotel space at the Doubletree Hotel allowed for more focused gaming and a slightly more relaxed atmosphere, conjuring memories of the earliest PaizoCons. I had a wonderful time chatting about Pathfinder Battles with fellow minis enthusiasts, and from the attendee reports I've read so far, everyone on hand seemed to appreciate the two full booster boxes of Pathfinder Battles figures we packed in every attendee's goodie bag. These packs primed the pump for my favorite PaizoCon event, Erik Mona's Miniatures Trading Afterparty, now in its SEVENTH consecutive year.

This year I seeded the party with a few samples from the forthcoming Dungeons Deep set, which is now shipping to paizo.com customers and should be hitting retail stores any day now. Folks were very positive about the new figures, and I was very proud to show them off. Dungeons Deep is one of my favorite Pathfinder Battles sets to date, and I'm confident you're going to really enjoy it.

PaizoCon was also special from a Pathfinder Battles perspective in that I announced the very next set of Pathfinder Battles figures at the Preview Banquet—The Rusty Dragon Inn! I've long wanted to base a set loosely around a tavern theme. Not only does it provide a great excuse to produce dungeon dressing suitable for the tavern environment, but it also allows us to feature several NPC and even player character-appropriate figures in a naturalistic way. Of course, The Rusty Dragon Inn set will also include a nice mix of monsters, but we'll get to those shortly.

Before that, however, let's preview the one figure from Dungeons Deep that somehow slipped through the cracks: the Anghazan Idol! Anghazan is an ape demon lord in the Pathfinder campaign setting, and his blood-soaked idol—based on one of the first metal miniatures Paizo ever created back in 2006—seemed like a natural (ahem) fit for our first round of dungeon dressing.

The Anghazan Idol comes complete with blood-stained hands and cheeks, and works well as any primitive stone idol, either in a dungeon or in the wilderness. I've teamed it up with a gaggle of dancing Charu-ka from Legends of Golarion in the photo above to put it in its proper context.

While out in the Sun, I noticed the idol's special, somewhat secret feature. The green gem at the crown of the idol is, in fact, translucent plastic, and it caught the light of the Sun in a really interesting way (did I mention that I love summers in Seattle—these outdoor dioramas will definitely be vanishing in a couple months as our weather turns terrible). Check out the gem in particular in this close-up shot:

Anyway, the Anghazan idol is, in many ways, the most modest of the dungeon dressing in Dungeons Deep, but I hope you'll discover that it's got a charm all its own.

But what about the Rusty Dragon Inn?

The big Pathfinder Battles news out of PaizoCon was, of course, The Rusty Dragon Inn, currently set for release in the fourth quarter of 2015! As I said, I've wanted to do a tavern-themed set for a long time, and I'm thrilled with the characters, creeps, and critters we've been able to fit into this set.

Ever since the line debuted, I've been trying to balance the different requests I get from customers and retailers. Generally speaking, super-collectors want stuff they don't already have, while retailers (who often break boosters down for singles) say they want figures suitable for player characters, since that's what their customers most often want to buy.

Well, the Iconic Heroes boxed sets are serving the need for straight-up heroes admirably (and sets 4, 5, and 6 are currently in the works!), but that still leaves the need for NPCs. But again, they should be NPCs that not everyone already has—a tall order after 15 years of prepainted plastic figures.

Anyway, I think we did a pretty good job making our selections. Honestly I'll be thrilled to have the figures in The Rusty Dragon Inn set for my own gaming, in which fights seem to break out in taverns nearly as often as they do in dungeons!

Let's take a quick look at many of the figures I revealed at PaizoCon, and get into some of the whys and details I didn't have time to cover during my banquet presentation.

No tavern set would be complete without a Serving Girl, here with a tray laden with food and drinks. This figure takes inspiration from Wayne Reynolds's cover to the NPC Codex, and I can see plenty of uses for this figure—mostly involving getting caught in an area of effect spell, but hey, that's tactically important too! The Serving Girl is a Medium, common figure.

There always seems to be a Merchant lurking about in the inn right before things go down, so he was another obvious inclusion in The Rusty Dragon Inn set. Whether you use this guy as an NPC to be protected, as an alchemist player character or adversary, or as a villain with an amazing mustache to twirl, he's bound to make an impression on your players. The Merchant is a Medium, uncommon figure.

We've been doling out city watchmen for a long time in the Pathfinder Battles line, and with The Rusty Dragon Inn, we're finally providing a no-nonsense commander. Decked out in the familiar blue from previous watch figures, the City Watch Commander cuts an imposing figure, fists on hips, ready to kick some ass. We based her look on Kasadei, a character from both Dawn of the Scarlet Sun and the Pathfinder Comics series, but she can really be anyone you want, including a player character. The City Watch Commander is a Medium, uncommon figure.

Of course, a set filled with nothing by NPCs would likely doom the line, so I'm pleased to report that The Rusty Dragon Inn also includes a bunch of monsters!

We've had really good luck picking a couple of adversary types and providing multiple figures within a set, and The Rusty Dragon Inn is no exception. This time, we're focusing on monsters that, while not exactly welcome in an urban setting, certainly aren't out of place there.

The first focus race this time is GHOULS, one of my all-time favorite fantasy races. Yes, we've done a few ghouls in previous sets, but The Rusty Dragon Inn allows us to plumb the pages of the Monster Codex in particular to present even more ghoulish goodness. The Ghoul Champion depicted here, for example, is just one of a small handful of amazing ghouls that we'll reveal over the weeks to come. He's a Medium, rare figure.

The set also focuses on bugbears, a staple humanoid enemy race that has long been plagued by inconsistent or just flat-out unappealing figures. Here we see the imposing Bugbear Tyrant, a Medium, uncommon figure.

And, because I love you guys, here's a bonus reveal that we didn't show off at PaizoCon. It's one of my favorite figures in the set, a nasty, sticky… thing we can only call: the Quivering Cube. The Quivering Cube is a Large, rare figure that comes complete with skeletal remains and some gear visible within it. Hooray!

Lastly this week I'd like to mention that the replacement figures for the badly produced Feiya and King Irovetti figures that were originally going to appear in Dungeons Deep have been moved to The Rusty Dragon Inn instead. WizKids simply wasn't happy with the quality of the figures, and they want to make them as awesome as possible. I'm eager to see how they turn out.

And that's it for this week, folks. Tune in next Friday for even more amazing reveals of all-new figures from The Rusty Dragon Inn!

Erik Mona
Publisher

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Tags: Dungeons Deep Miniatures Pathfinder Battles The Rusty Dragon Inn
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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Hobbun wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
The Minis Maniac wrote:
Let's face it. The commoner minis are super necessary for combat especially in urban campaigns, they may not be exciting. BUt when a fight breaks out on a city street, all these merchants, and commoners are bound to be in the way. As for dungeon dressing, again it makes life much easier to have physical representations of stuff.

I've found that just mancala pieces work amazing for that. Grab a handful, throw them on the board (literally), and there are commoners.

I also use the same method for difficult terrain and obstacles, which really are all the commoners are :D

What are mancala pieces? I am guessing they are similar to the colored stones we use for large groups of creatures/NPCs.

I believe they're those little colored plastic stones with a flat side.

Pokemon starter decks used to come with them. ^_^


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
Hobbun wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
The Minis Maniac wrote:
Let's face it. The commoner minis are super necessary for combat especially in urban campaigns, they may not be exciting. BUt when a fight breaks out on a city street, all these merchants, and commoners are bound to be in the way. As for dungeon dressing, again it makes life much easier to have physical representations of stuff.

I've found that just mancala pieces work amazing for that. Grab a handful, throw them on the board (literally), and there are commoners.

I also use the same method for difficult terrain and obstacles, which really are all the commoners are :D

What are mancala pieces? I am guessing they are similar to the colored stones we use for large groups of creatures/NPCs.

I believe they're those little colored plastic stones with a flat side.

Pokemon starter decks used to come with them. ^_^

Yeah, that sounds similar to the stones we use, including the (somewhat) flat side, although ours are glass.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

They're probably glass, actually. My mistake. ^_^


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I would really like to see a city watch mage. Every city watch should have one to deal with those crazy wizards.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:
EXCLUDING the dungeon dressing, including the case incentive.

Wait, did I miss an update somewhere saying the case incentive was a bar?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

It was revealed at the PaizoCon banquet.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'll reserve judgement until the full set is revealed, but a set containing mainly NPCs will be something I will skip.

Having purchased 2 Undead sets, I have enough Ghouls as well.

Also not stoked to hear about the bar. Can't ever picture putting that on the table.

I only ever place minis on the table for encounters. Everything else is roleplayed. Drawing a map for a tavern where people will only do talking would waste too much time.

Sorry Erik :( I do very much appreciate the effort you put into this, and it's a neat idea, so I hope it's successful for you, but as you said, you can't please everyone!


Do fights never happen in taverns in your campaign?


What are the chances of getting a Brambleson mini at some point down the road?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cleanthes wrote:
Do fights never happen in taverns in your campaign?

Can't speak for Curmudgeonly, but when compared to Dungeons, Castles, Roads, Generic Outdoors, Caves, City Streets, Temples, and Grave Yards? In my experience Taverns would be at the bottom of the list below even Air Ships and under water.

I accept that I can't love everything Erik elects to do. But I love his efforts and will support them with my cash regardless, so the line overall will continue.


What if instead of a tavern bar, the piece of Gargantuan terrain had been a Gatehouse? River crossing? Cave entrance? Row of market stalls? Crypt w/ removable roof? Would some other piece of terrain at home in a different setting have been more appealing, or is the problem that folks just don't want this kind of terrain in general? If you'd want any of this other stuff, I expect that would be a lot more likely if the bar does well.
Though I also can anticipate the obvious rebuttal: We'd rather have spectacular Gargantuan monsters. And I can understand that too. I want them both, but if I have to pick, and given how much terrain stuff I already have on hand thanks to Dwarven Forge and Fat Dragon Games, I'd probably go for the monsters.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:

What if instead of a tavern bar, the piece of Gargantuan terrain had been a Gatehouse? River crossing? Cave entrance? Row of market stalls? Crypt w/ removable roof? Would some other piece of terrain at home in a different setting have been more appealing, or is the problem that folks just don't want this kind of terrain in general? If you'd want any of this other stuff, I expect that would be a lot more likely if the bar does well.

Though I also can anticipate the obvious rebuttal: We'd rather have spectacular Gargantuan monsters. And I can understand that too. I want them both, but if I have to pick, and given how much terrain stuff I already have on hand thanks to Dwarven Forge and Fat Dragon Games, I'd probably go for the monsters.

I believe they wanted a "removable roof"-type bar, but it wasn't anywhere near cost-effective (see Dancing Hut). ^_^


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Cleanthes wrote:

What if instead of a tavern bar, the piece of Gargantuan terrain had been a Gatehouse? River crossing? Cave entrance? Row of market stalls? Crypt w/ removable roof? Would some other piece of terrain at home in a different setting have been more appealing, or is the problem that folks just don't want this kind of terrain in general? If you'd want any of this other stuff, I expect that would be a lot more likely if the bar does well.

Though I also can anticipate the obvious rebuttal: We'd rather have spectacular Gargantuan monsters. And I can understand that too. I want them both, but if I have to pick, and given how much terrain stuff I already have on hand thanks to Dwarven Forge and Fat Dragon Games, I'd probably go for the monsters.

In my perfect world, I'd have preferred dungeon dressing pieces to be in their own separate product line (like the iconic heroes series).

By including them in the regular cases, I miss out on a few monsters but don't get enough dungeon dressing for a "proper" scene anyway.

The inclusion of dungeon dressing pieces is spreading the line a little too broadly, for my tastes (though I appreciate the experimentation so will be getting a case anyhow). It's especially visible with the premium figures, since they are so rare that the opportunity cost of a dungeon dressing "gargantuan" figure is obvious, but to me it's the same issue regardless of size.


Cleanthes wrote:
What if instead of a tavern bar, the piece of Gargantuan terrain had been a Gatehouse? River crossing? Cave entrance? Row of market stalls? Crypt w/ removable roof? Would some other piece of terrain at home in a different setting have been more appealing, or is the problem that folks just don't want this kind of terrain in general?

Honestly, none of those sound particular enticing, but they would be better than a tavern bar.

I can draw all of that stuff rather quickly. It's not high on my priority list to get terrain pieces. I have even found terrain pieces more problematic than just drawing. The Dwarven Forge stuff has proven completely impractical to me in its setup, taking far too long to get a castle layout for example put together.

I need monsters. I need figures I will use in combat. Non-combat NPCs would never see the light of day.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

I think the bar is fine as a one-off, and I appreciate the novelty. It's nice to see them trying new things. I'd probably prefer a Gargantuan monster (or my two-Huges idea) most of the time. It's all about the specific model.

It's a matter of... case-by-case judgment. rimshot

Regarding existing case incentives:
I like the Huge Black Dragon, Rune Giant, and Shemhazian Demon - if I had the cash, I'd own a second Rune Giant. Deskari is mostly one-use, but he doubles for a giant golem with a scythe, so I've found a second use for him. Plus, he's the villain for an AP, and I'm biased in favor of those.

With the exception of Brinebones (skeletal is new) and Cadrilkasta to some extent, the dragons are getting redundant. If they're what people want and they keep the product line successful, though, I'll accept them. ^_^

I like the idea of dungeon dressing as a separate line, but other than the Iconic Heroes sets, those seem to be foundering. I'd also like to see larger set sizes, RotRL-style... but again, whatever's economically feasible.

Also, while I can tolerate a few more ghouls... please, please slow down on the goblinoids. I was all right with the Lost Coast ones, since they were kind of specific (and AP-relevant). Ambivalent-at-best about bugbears, honestly.

Finally, please don't take any of this too harshly. I'm still super excited for these sets. I know having a ton of DDM makes me an outlier, so I don't mind some redundant material. (I wouldn't mind seeing some Golarion drow, in fact.)

Thank you. ^_^

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm happy to see some support for "urban monsters", i.e. NPCs. I will likely use the bar far more than I've used the Rune Giant or the Deskari case incentives.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I wanted to add my voice to being ok with the bar incentive. Other than Deskari have not yet used any of the case incentives at the game table. I went into a kickstarter to get a bar and other dungeon dressings but that kickstarter is years late. So actually very happy with the dungeon dressing minis as I know I we'll be getting them on time and with the usual high quality.

I also wanted to say the two huge instead of a single gargantuan is a really good idea. I more often make use of huge monsters over a gargantuan. So all for that if it could be made to happen.

Last comment is for Erik. I know I complained about those darn farm animals before but still have a case subscription. I am overall very happy with the line. Was just comparing the old DDM line to the latest paizo ones and wizkids mins are so much better. So keep it up. :)


Erik;
I wanted to say thank you for this set. I use non NPCs in encounters, this set is absolutely perfect! I can only hope for non human NPCs too at some point.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
davrion wrote:
I'm happy to see some support for "urban monsters", i.e. NPCs. I will likely use the bar far more than I've used the Rune Giant or the Deskari case incentives.

Have to agree with davrion here. In our campaigns, I have been in more situations where we’ve had combats in taverns or in town in general (with NPCs), than fighting against a Rune Giant (never fought one yet) or a CR 15+ creature.

So the tavern, as well as the common folk, will have a lot of use in our campaigns. And where I don’t think we should have multiple sets dedicated to common folk, I do hope we see them split up in future sets in general.

And I don’t think this should be the norm on case incentives involving dungeon dressings, I wouldn’t be opposed to it happening again. What I would actually love to see is a merchant wagon/caravan with horses. Don’t know how many times we’ve escorted merchants and have gotten into combats on the road or at a campsite.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
starphoenix wrote:

Erik;

I wanted to say thank you for this set. I use non NPCs in encounters, this set is absolutely perfect! I can only hope for non human NPCs too at some point.

Seconded. While I probably won't opt for a full case, a bunch of normal people is overdue in my collection.

Shadow Lodge

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Anguish wrote:
starphoenix wrote:

Erik;

I wanted to say thank you for this set. I use non NPCs in encounters, this set is absolutely perfect! I can only hope for non human NPCs too at some point.
Seconded. While I probably won't opt for a full case, a bunch of normal people is overdue in my collection.

Thirded. I love seeding the board with noncombatant NPCs, statues, and other set dressing to keep my players on-edge during important parts of scenarios, modules, or adventures (APs or home game). If you only put stuff on the board when they're going to fight said stuff, they OOC know when to start thinking tactically - but if every time they engage with a NPC in conversation there are minis on the board... they have to start thinking "do we really want to fight here, or should we just talk?" - either way, it's a boon to my GM style.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
CanisDirus wrote:
If you only put stuff on the board when they're going to fight said stuff, they OOC know when to start thinking tactically - but if every time they engage with a NPC in conversation there are minis on the board... they have to start thinking "do we really want to fight here, or should we just talk?"

Agree 100%. If you only selectively use maps/miniatures, then players will act on those cues - minis on maps means they are supposed to fight.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

"Anghazan Idol" is also the name of Golarion's second most popular singing competition. (Nearly twice as many viewers scry "The Bard" these days.)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I just set up a subscription - my first case from paizo will be Dungeons Deep.

I'm excited to see what else is on the horizon for the Rusty Dragon Inn and for the next sets of the Iconics line. I like commoner minis and have too few. Looking forward to adding some in this set.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Curmudgeonly wrote:
I'll reserve judgement until the full set is revealed, but a set containing mainly NPCs will be something I will skip.

Let's be clear here: just because the set is called "The Rusty Dragon Inn," it does not mean that it's all NPCs and no monsters, any more than a set called "Dungeons Deep" is all monsters and no NPCs. Not every mini is tied to the theme in every set; the key to the theme in *this* set is just that a lot of the NPC-types are folks you'd expect to find in a tavern.

Every set we do will have a *lot* of monsters and a *lot* of non-monsters.


Hobbun wrote:

What I would actually love to see is a merchant wagon/caravan with horses. Don’t know how many times we’ve escorted merchants and have gotten into combats on the road or at a campsite.

Hobbun, there's a Kickstarter for something like that that's due to fulfill any time now. Here's a link to it. Once it's fulfilled, I'm sure they'll be available for normal purchase.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:
Hobbun, there's a Kickstarter for something like that that's due to fulfill any time now. Here's a link to it. Once it's fulfilled, I'm sure they'll be available for normal purchase.

Yup. Jonathan has pretty upfront about his intention that the Kickstarters are to get the molds made so the products can sell normally afterwards.

I'm pretty much hoping he'll keep at it, and become a major source of props, at a (very) reasonable price.

I find the more gaming goodies you have, the more synergy there is, and the more you want. Having other sources of minis and props in no way diminishes my thirst for Paizo's, I'll say.


I like the look of this set so much, it has me saving up to start a subscription with it. :)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm currently in a demon themed campaign (homebrew). While we now have more than enough demons to cover just about any encounters, those evil buggers are constantly drawing in innocents to their demented plans. I can use all the city folk I can get my hands on to represent the battles we are fighting. I vote yes, to sets like the Rusty Dragon.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

What I would actually love to see is a merchant wagon/caravan with horses. Don’t know how many times we’ve escorted merchants and have gotten into combats on the road or at a campsite.

Hobbun, there's a Kickstarter for something like that that's due to fulfill any time now. Here's a link to it. Once it's fulfilled, I'm sure they'll be available for normal purchase.

Thanks for the link.

I googled his website (TabletopProps) and saw the pictures from the Kickstarters (wagon and tent), but no written blogs or updates saying on what he plans to do.

I hope he does eventually start selling them, as I liked what I saw from the wagon KS (too bad I didn’t know about it). I especially like that you can take it apart. I also like the campfire, we have used pseudo campfires more times than I can count.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As case incentives go, I've used the the Green Dragon and White Dragon as adversaries.

My group is in the 6th chapter of RorRL, so I'll soon use the Rune Giant and Blue Dragon (a couple times). I also might use the Shemhazian Demon.

I'll save Deskari for when I run WotR someday.

If it had been available a little earlier, I had a need for a skeletal dragon like Brinebones.

A tavern bar is the kind of thing I'm more inclined to draw on a flipmat than to use a miniature. My group generally doesn't use miniatures out of combat.

-Skeld


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Skeld wrote:


My group is in the 6th chapter of RorRL, so I'll soon use the Rune Giant and Blue Dragon (a couple times). I also might use the Shemhazian Demon.

Just curious, but what are you going to use the Shemhaizan Demon for?

I am going to be running this AP in the near future, and where he’s not in the book, just curious what you would be substituting/adding him in for?

If it’s needed, you can spoiler it for those who haven’t played RotRL yet.


Hobbun wrote:
Cleanthes wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

What I would actually love to see is a merchant wagon/caravan with horses. Don’t know how many times we’ve escorted merchants and have gotten into combats on the road or at a campsite.

Hobbun, there's a Kickstarter for something like that that's due to fulfill any time now. Here's a link to it. Once it's fulfilled, I'm sure they'll be available for normal purchase.

Thanks for the link.

I googled his website (TabletopProps) and saw the pictures from the Kickstarters (wagon and tent), but no written blogs or updates saying on what he plans to do.

I hope he does eventually start selling them, as I liked what I saw from the wagon KS (too bad I didn’t know about it). I especially like that you can take it apart. I also like the campfire, we have used pseudo campfires more times than I can count.

He discusses his progress and plans in the comments on that Kickstarter. If I recall correctly, stuff should be hitting the water from China soon, if it hasn't already. I don't think he's going to have a problem fulfilling, anyway.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Unfortunately KS doesn’t allow you to read comments to a specific KS unless you have donated to it, so I can’t read them.

I’ll have to keep looking on his website to see if he opens up orders.

Thanks.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hobbun -

Spoiler:

I couldn't remember precisely until I looked, but in the AE, there's a Shemazian Demon in area X16 of the Pinnacle of Avarice.

-Skeld


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Skeld wrote:

Hobbun -

** spoiler omitted **

-Skeld

Hmm, well how about that.

Spoiler:
Didn’t think there was a Shemazian Demon in RotRL at all, although have only skimmed over the Pinnacle of Avarice so far.

Thanks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
It was revealed at the PaizoCon banquet.

And that's totally why I never heard it. :/ For like 2 reasons. Thanks for the assist Vic.

But I like the idea of a bar mini. I haven't picked up any of the dungeon dressing pieces yet, but those are ones my wife and I were very excited to see get made. We'd even backed a KS full of dungeon dressing type items, and well, having more is not a problem for us. :)


Vic Wertz wrote:
Curmudgeonly wrote:
I'll reserve judgement until the full set is revealed, but a set containing mainly NPCs will be something I will skip.

Let's be clear here: just because the set is called "The Rusty Dragon Inn," it does not mean that it's all NPCs and no monsters, any more than a set called "Dungeons Deep" is all monsters and no NPCs. Not every mini is tied to the theme in every set; the key to the theme in *this* set is just that a lot of the NPC-types are folks you'd expect to find in a tavern.

Every set we do will have a *lot* of monsters and a *lot* of non-monsters.

Hence why I will reserve judgement until the full set is revealed :)

I understand what you guys are trying to do, and I'm glad to see there are people here interested. But if I had to guess right now though, I'd likely buy individual minis of the monsters than a full set to avoid all the non-combat NPCs. They will literally just never make an appearance on my table.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Curmudgeonly wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Curmudgeonly wrote:
I'll reserve judgement until the full set is revealed, but a set containing mainly NPCs will be something I will skip.

Let's be clear here: just because the set is called "The Rusty Dragon Inn," it does not mean that it's all NPCs and no monsters, any more than a set called "Dungeons Deep" is all monsters and no NPCs. Not every mini is tied to the theme in every set; the key to the theme in *this* set is just that a lot of the NPC-types are folks you'd expect to find in a tavern.

Every set we do will have a *lot* of monsters and a *lot* of non-monsters.

Hence why I will reserve judgement until the full set is revealed :)

I understand what you guys are trying to do, and I'm glad to see there are people here interested. But if I had to guess right now though, I'd likely buy individual minis of the monsters than a full set to avoid all the non-combat NPCs. They will literally just never make an appearance on my table.

You could try splitting a case with someone (depending on what the final set list looks like, finding a partner, and all that). ^_^

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

I just wanted to chime in with a counterpoint - expanding the scope of my collection is always helpful, especially with large quantities I can use as crowds. Even though I have hundreds and hundreds of minis dating back to the D&D minis days, I still never have enough plain folk.

I will find many, many uses for the bar, as well, so I'm pleased as punch with this set.

One problem I've noticed is that happy people are happy, and thus less inclined to comment, whereas disgruntled people are unhappy, and thus more inclined to comment. So I wanted to give you a "happy" comment.

In an unrelated note, the "mouth horror" is perfectly timed for my home campaign. Not that I've been reading Tome of Horrors 4 or anything ....

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'll find use for the bar and the NPCs but, and this is a big but ( I like big 'buts' and I'll tell you why) I really hope Wizkids master the painting of faces. After 9(?) sets some of the ones in Dungeons Deep still have very over painted or blobby faces, especially the dwarves. I know they can do better, just look at the iconics line. Would be a real shame to make some really nice NPCs that people have requested often, or based on the brilliant art from the codeces, then have those scary blob faces.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I agree.

I gave my full accounting on my feelings on the Dungeons Deep product thread, but I really feel by this time WizKids should have nailed down being able to paint faces. At least paint them where they look decent, although they ‘can’ look spectacular as shown in the iconic line.

So I guess I just don’t understand if they have the capability to paint that way with the iconic line, why humanoid faces a lot of times look quite bad in the main sets. What is done so differently in the iconic line compared to the main sets?

And yes, Dungeons Deep is the ninth main set in the line. Main set being the 45+ minis.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Hobbun wrote:

So I guess I just don’t understand if they have the capability to paint that way with the iconic line, why humanoid faces a lot of times look quite bad in the main sets. What is done so differently in the iconic line compared to the main sets?

Quite simply, the figures in a standard booster are priced at $15.99 for 4 figures, meaning a $4/figure average, while the Iconic Heroes minis are $29.99 for 6 figures, meaning a $5/figure average, which is to say they cost about 25% more per figure. And pretty much all that cost goes into additional paint operations, including additional touch-up work.

(But that *doesn't* mean that WizKids could get Iconic Heroes-quality paint ops in the regular set if they just raised the price to $19.99 per booster; other factors also come into play here, including the limited selection and low relative volume of the IH set.)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

So I guess I just don’t understand if they have the capability to paint that way with the iconic line, why humanoid faces a lot of times look quite bad in the main sets. What is done so differently in the iconic line compared to the main sets?

Quite simply, the figures in a standard booster are priced at $15.99 for 4 figures, meaning a $4/figure average, while the Iconic Heroes minis are $29.99 for 6 figures, meaning a $5/figure average, which is to say they cost about 25% more per figure. And pretty much all that cost goes into additional paint operations, including additional touch-up work.

(But that *doesn't* mean that WizKids could get Iconic Heroes-quality paint ops in the regular set if they just raised the price to $19.99 per booster; other factors also come into play here, including the limited selection and low relative volume of the IH set.)

Vic, from what I remember reading in Erik's posts previously is when the new (and improved) digital method was introduced with the iconic line, it was going to be introduced with the regular sets, as well, and therefore improve the quality of the figures overall.

But that hasn't happened with the faces of the humanoids as of yet. Are you basically saying we are SoL in regards to 'less than stellar' paint jobs (with the faces) with the main sets?

If so, that is very disappointing to hear.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

So I guess I just don’t understand if they have the capability to paint that way with the iconic line, why humanoid faces a lot of times look quite bad in the main sets. What is done so differently in the iconic line compared to the main sets?

Quite simply, the figures in a standard booster are priced at $15.99 for 4 figures, meaning a $4/figure average, while the Iconic Heroes minis are $29.99 for 6 figures, meaning a $5/figure average, which is to say they cost about 25% more per figure. And pretty much all that cost goes into additional paint operations, including additional touch-up work.

(But that *doesn't* mean that WizKids could get Iconic Heroes-quality paint ops in the regular set if they just raised the price to $19.99 per booster; other factors also come into play here, including the limited selection and low relative volume of the IH set.)

Would it be possible to take a hybrid approach? Step up painting on the high-detail humanoid minis specifically, raising the cost of certain minis, and then raising booster prices by a lower margin?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Hobbun wrote:

Vic, from what I remember reading in Erik's posts previously is when the new (and improved) digital method was introduced with the iconic line, it was going to be introduced with the regular sets, as well, and therefore improve the quality of the figures overall.

But that hasn't happened with the faces of the humanoids as of yet. Are you basically saying we are SoL in regards to 'less than stellar' paint jobs (with the faces) with the main sets?

If so, that is very disappointing to hear.

I'm not saying that at all! Sculpting is one thing, and painting is another. It's certainly true that what might seem to be a paint problem is sometimes a sculpt problem (melty-face Feiya, for example), and processes that improve sculpts will therefore help some of these problems. So should moving to digital sculpts help? Sure. But are digital scuplts that the only reason that Iconic Heroes look so great? Absolutely not. I'd say it's not even the *main* reason. The main reason that the Iconic Heroes sets looks so great is because they spend more time and money painting every single figure.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Kalindlara wrote:
Would it be possible to take a hybrid approach? Step up painting on the high-detail humanoid minis specifically, raising the cost of certain minis, and then raising booster prices by a lower margin?

Would it be *possible*? I don't know. Stepping up painting doesn't just cost more—it takes more time, and the time that WizKids has to do a given set in a factory that they don't own may not be as easy to expand as you might think. Only their production management would be able to answer that.

But I am pretty sure it's not *desirable*. Look through any lengthy discussion thread about Pathfinder Battles, and you will find a lot of people who feel it's already too expensive. I'm pretty confident that increasing the price would drive away more customers than increasing the number of paint operations would attract.

Dark Archive

Vic Wertz wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Would it be possible to take a hybrid approach? Step up painting on the high-detail humanoid minis specifically, raising the cost of certain minis, and then raising booster prices by a lower margin?

Would it be *possible*? I don't know. Stepping up painting doesn't just cost more—it takes more time, and the time that WizKids has to do a given set in a factory that they don't own may not be as easy to expand as you might think. Only their production management would be able to answer that.

But I am pretty sure it's not *desirable*. Look through any lengthy discussion thread about Pathfinder Battles, and you will find a lot of people who feel it's already too expensive. I'm pretty confident that increasing the price would drive away more customers than increasing the number of paint operations would attract.

I absolutely love the Pathfinder Battles line and everyone behind it (Eric that goes to you) and all you great guys and gals at Paizo.

When i pay $16 for 4 painted minis (1 large and 3 medium or small) that is only $4 per figure (probably $3 per small or medium and $7 for the large one).

I think that is a very fair price.

That said i mainly want monsters. Other people want townspeople or dwarves or...

I think it would be a great idea to split the line into 2 different ones:

-Monsters

and

-People (humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings and so on)

I think that way the people who paint the minis could specialize more according to their talents.

But probably it has to be a mixed bag of everything to sell to everyone.

What i can not understand is that some human minis look great
(City Watch Sniper, Brodert Quink, Shoanti Gladiator or Lord Mayor Grobaras from The Lost Coast for example), while others (Half-Elf Haughty Avenger, Etainia or Kiramor the Forest Shadow) look like their faces melted.

Still i won´t complain overly as long as it is a small percentage of the minis (which it is).

Thank you for work and calm and friendly answers (that can´t be easy all the time). :-)

Dark Archive

I hope the bar mini looks a little like this: ;-)

http://www.dwarvenforge.com/kickstarter-2015-photo-gallery/nggallery/thumbn ails/page/2

2nd and 3rd last pictures.

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