Illuminating Darkness

Thursday, May 7, 2015

Light and darkness. Given how powerful it is to take away someone's sight in Pathfinder, few topics share the three 'C's that make light and darkness such an important topic: Common, Crucial, and Confusing. In this blog, I will thoroughly explain light and darkness, providing a detailed example, so by the end, you will be armed and ready to run light and darkness in your games, even the edgiest of edge cases. Lets start by covering a number of important guidelines for dealing with light and darkness in your game.

1. Let There Be Light


Illustration by Craig J Spearing

In the absence of darkness magic, light magic is fairly straightforward. Without magic involved, there are four light levels: darkness, dim light, normal light, and bright light. Each light spell tells you what light level it creates, and in what radius. So that's not bad at all!

2. What a Nice Ambience

Darkness magic by itself isn't too bad either, but it's harder to deal with than light magic. Darkness spells first negate nonmagical light sources like lanterns and sunrods, and then they tell you how many steps to reduce the "ambient" light, and some of them can create a new fifth light level called supernatural darkness below darkness, in which even darkvision is useless (but the devil/darkfolk ability see in darkness still reigns supreme). However, there's one tricky nuance in darkness magic, and that's the question "what is ambient anyway?" The FAQ from October 2010 tells us a little more: it defines ambient light as "the light level from natural sources, such as the sun, moon, and stars—not torches, campfires, light spells, and so on." This is a good start, but it leads into a debate about "natural." So here's the strongest rule of thumb for what kind of light is ambient, "If a creature is moving it around with them, it's almost never ambient, and if the light is quite different in pockets instead of spread throughout an area uniformly, it's probably not ambient (with exceptions for holes in the ceiling streaming down sunlight in patches, for example)." For example, in a Darklands cavern lit by luminescent fungi, that light is ambient. If a svirfneblin plucked some of the fungi and put them in a lantern-frame and carried them around, the light is not ambient. If a svirfneblin took some seeds and grew a cavern of the fungi equivalent to the first, it's ambient. Use your judgment, but with an eye towards most corner cases not being ambient.

3. And Ne'er the Two Shall Meet

OK, we can do light, and we can do darkness. But what if the two of them meet? There's quite a few interactions, including a special exception for the spell daylight, so first let's focus on the basic interactions. From the descriptors and the spells themselves, we glean the following facts: Spells with the light descriptor only raise the light level within an area of a darkness descriptor spell if they are higher level than the darkness descriptor spell. Apparently also, darkness spells can counter or dispel light spells of equal or lower level (and light spells can do the same to darkness spells). So what does that mean?

4. I Counter Your Counter!

There are many ways to misinterpret the "counter or dispel" text for light and darkness spells. Here's how that particular rule actually works. To counter a spell of the opposing descriptor, you ready an action just like any other counterspell. Just as normal for counterspell, the target of the spell must be within range (which, without Reach Spell metamagic, is touch for most light and darkness spells). If the target is in range, you automatically counter the opposing spell and it has no effect, just like always for counterspell. To dispel, you simply cast your spell on the same target (just like with enlarge person and reduce person) and then they cancel each other out, leaving no spell. Again, the range is usually touch and the target is the object that radiates the darkness or light; you can't just touch an arbitrary spot within the darkness or light.

5. Pierce the Darkness

Now that we have those out of the way, let's assume the more typical case where someone cast a darkness spell on one object, somebody else cast a light spell on another object, and the areas overlap. We're still not dealing with daylight yet. Based on the rules of light and darkness, here's how to adjudicate this situation within the overlap:

First, the darkness spell turns off nonmagical light sources and lowers the ambient light level. If there are multiple darkness spells, figure out the highest spell level (not caster level!)

Next, the light spells attempt to shine through. For every light spell, check to see if it has a higher spell level (not caster level!) than the highest spell level of any of the darkness spells. If so, that light spell has its normal effect, as per the spell. Do not reduce its light level again for the darkness spell; that already happened. This is true in all overlapping areas, as per the May 2013 FAQ, whether the light spell's source object is within the area of darkness or not.

6. Here I Stand, in the Light of Day

OK, so what about daylight? We've been putting that one off until now because it simply doesn't work like other light and darkness spells. As it says "Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect." Daylight comes in, if necessary right after those last two bullet points in section 5:

If no other light spell is sufficient to overcome the darkness spells in the overlapping area, and if there is a daylight spell active in the overlapping area, the daylight spell's special negation clause kicks in (regardless of the spell level of daylight and the darkness spell; it just works, always). This means that you negate all the magical light changes in the area and bring it back to prevailing conditions. As a side effect of negating the magical darkness, those nonmagical light sources activate again (while they are not ambient, they were still part of prevailing conditions). Other magical light sources still are not active in the area; they had their chance to attempt to negate the darkness spells and didn't, so they were not part of the prevailing light conditions, instead subsumed by daylight's more powerful special negation clause.

7. Will Anyone Think of the Elves?

So what about low-light vision anyway? Those guys can see twice as far via light sources. However, they don't change the actual radius of the magic at all. We'll examine what that means for each step separately, using elves as an example instead of always saying "creatures with low-light vision" all the time:

  • In areas with light magic only, elves see twice as far. So with daylight, elves get 120 feet of bright light followed by 120 feet of one step up from normal.
  • In areas with darkness magic only, elves are affected by darkness spells in the same region. Since darkness spells quench the effects of nonmagical light sources before applying their reduction, elves should almost always be experiencing the same light level as everyone else (if supposedly "ambient" light was dispersed enough in pockets that the elf's low-light vision was giving it a different light level, chances are the light wasn't ambient to begin with). In the rare cases with odd pockets of ambient light, it is possible that an elf experiences a different light level in the darkness spell due to the ambient light being different for the elf.
  • In areas with both light and darkness magic, the elf being an elf does not change where the magics overlap. But where is that? The spells target an object, rather than stating an emanation. For the purpose of determining where light and darkness magics have an overlapping region, look at the spell and determine the farthest radius where it has an effect (for example, that would be 120 feet for daylight, 20 feet for darkness, and 40 feet for continual flame).

So, using these guidelines, lets take a look at a complicated example that brings each one of these into play:


Extended Example

Level 8 Feiya, Kyra, Ezren, and Damiel are traveling through the Darklands. Damiel brewed Ezren an infusion of darkvision, which he has active, as well as comprehend languages. Damiel also has low-light vision because he's an elf. The rest of the group had been relying on Kyra's heightened continual flame (heightened to spell level 4) to see, as well as various light cantrips, since the ambient light level is darkness. The group is ambushed by a group of darkfolk in a large cavern. In the first wave, dark creepers emerge from the darkness, each of them having cast darkness prior to the encounter. From the distance, no one, not even Ezren, can see the creepers, as they are beyond the range of his 60 foot darkvision. As they approach to 60 feet, Ezren spots them because of his darkvision. Damiel still can't see them because Kyra's heightened continual flame counts as extending 40 feet for the purpose of determining where it overlaps their darkness. As they approach within 40 feet, everyone can see them, as Kyra's heightened continual flame defeats the darkness in the area of overlap. The other light spells stop working, though.

Next, the dark stalkers advance, with their deeper darkness spells active. Even when they get to 60 feet, Ezren can't see them because it's supernatural darkness. However, since Kyra's heightened continual flame is heightened to 4th level, it keeps shining brightly. Since no one ever takes the Dark Folk language, the darkfolk use it to coordinate their attacks. Sadly for them, Ezren understands them anyway, and he warns Feiya that the darkfolk have a dark slayer who somehow heightened his spell-like ability deeper darkness to 4th level once per day through numerous blood sacrifices. Feiya nods, pulls out her rod of lesser reach metamagic and readies an action to counterspell with wandering star motes (which now has a range of 180 feet). Since wandering star motes is a 4th level light spell, the heightened deeper darkness is equal or lower level, so the counterspell ruins the dark slayer's big chance! The dark slayer snarls in anger and sends in its last big wildcard, a dark creeper barbarian, who sunders Kyra's heightened continual flame. This allows all those deeper darkness spells to defeat the remaining light sources easily, plunging the entire area into supernatural darkness, much to the darkfolks' delight.

Ezren ends their victory cheers early by casting daylight on his cane, which negates everything in the overlapping area, leaving the fight at the prevailing light level, normal darkness (hey, at least Ezren can see now!). Damiel, alchemist that he is, cracks a sunrod, which now provides light to everyone else. Desperate now, the dark slayer sends in the dark stalkers, who cast deeper darkness and then deliver the touch spell to Ezren's cane. They succeed, which dispels the daylight because daylight is equal or lower spell level.

Fed up with the whole situation, Kyra uses her 8th level sun domain ability nimbus of light, which instantly dispels all the darkness spells in 30 feet and then shines like a daylight. The battle is over soon after.


Mark Seifter
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Craig J Spearing Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
1 to 50 of 102 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Liberty's Edge

11 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This definitely calls for an illumination pun.

Liberty's Edge

9 people marked this as a favorite.

This blog post is not light on details.


9 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for shedding light on all this!

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

22 people marked this as a favorite.

We were tired of keeping you all in the dark.


8 people marked this as a favorite.

Sorry to darken the mood, but there is an error in your example:

Feya can't counterspell the dark slayer's heightened deeper darkness spell-like ability, because spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled. (CRB 221)

But otherwise that blog was very enlightening.


this needs more basic examples for each section

basically this just happened

after a read-through there is no way I would point anyone confused by the more common cases of darkness to this blog post, especially if they feel understanding is crucial to their character's survival

Paizo Employee Designer

7 people marked this as a favorite.
GreyYeti wrote:

Sorry to darken the mood, but there is an error in your example:

Feya can't counterspell the dark slayer's hightened deeper darkness spell-like ability, because spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled. (CRB 221)

But otherwise that blog was very enlightening.

Ah that's true. The special ritualistic heightened deeper darkness must have counted as a spell, since SLAs normally can't be heightened. Tricksy dark folk!

Grand Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I can see clearly now.

Paizo Employee Contributor—Canadian Maplecakes

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
We were tired of keeping you all in the dark.

BOO-URNS!

BOO-URNS!

:)


Can you clarify if Unwelcome Halo, from Inner Sea Gods, in fact works the same way as Daylight? I've experienced table variation based on the spell level, despite the fact that it has the same language as Daylight.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The explanation of how low-light vision interacts with the actual radius of the spells is a key point, especially with those who try a similar argument that having darkvision can negate a Shadowdancer's hide in plain sight ability.

Perhaps a follow-up article clarifying creatures and classes with shadow abilities is in order!

--Schoolhouse Vrock

Paizo Employee Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Talgeron wrote:
Can you clarify if Unwelcome Halo, from Inner Sea Gods, in fact works the same way as Daylight? I've experienced table variation based on the spell level, despite the fact that it has the same language as Daylight.

It's not in the RPG line, so the design team can't officially clarify on it. That said, it sure looks like it does, which, granted, puts it far outside the expected power level of a 1st-level spell.


Thanks, Mark. At least I have something to point to next time it comes up.


7 people marked this as a favorite.

"Since no one ever takes the Dark Folk language, the darkfolk use it to coordinate their attacks."

LMAO.

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

This really could have used Lem to lighten up the mood.

Scarab Sages

This post will settle so many discussions. Thanks for the great writeup!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is why I like the echolocation spell.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
David Neilson wrote:
This is why I like the echolocation spell.

I laugh at your silly spell (Dampen Presence feat)!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

...

So what light level do low light vision users see areas lit by moonlight as?

There was a whole discussion on the rules ambiguity involved in the precision damage vs concealment FAQ thread, and I don't see how this blog addresses the ambiguity.

Dark Archive Contributor

22 people marked this as a favorite.

While you shouldn't steal the name "Sage Advice," you should absolutely make this a weekly feature that performs a similar function. With beginners entering the game and old-timers returning to a new rules system, some essential tactical essays like this one would benefit many readers.

Or so I think.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Great blog article Mark, really helpful - I'll have a print out at the table for future "debates" on those issues!! Thanks

Contributor

3 people marked this as a favorite.

For almost four months, Mark has been talking about the "light and darkness" FAQ that was needed. And four almost four months, I've been sitting here thinking, "Why does that one wayang racial trait need an entire BLOG dedicated to FAQing it?"

D'oh.

Paizo Employee Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dave Gross wrote:

While you shouldn't steal the name "Sage Advice," you should absolutely make this a weekly feature that performs a similar function. With beginners entering the game and old-timers returning to a new rules system, some essential tactical essays like this one would benefit many readers.

Or so I think.

I initially envisioned this more like Stephen's old "Save My Game" column. The #1 issue here is that there isn't a weekly blog opening for this. Even if I had material, it couldn't happen.

I actually do have some prewriting for a few others though.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Really, the obvious name is "Pathfinder Chronicler" well if you want to do a bit of an homage to Sage Advice that is.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yay! Daylight is more powerful than I thought it was. Not only does it negate darkness spells that are higher level than it, but it allows torches other non-magical light sources to shine through. This makes for a good reason for people to carry glowstocks and torches, even if they can cast light at will.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Huh, so we're going with an "order of operations" type of setup? Interesting. On the one hand, it gives us our answer to what the final light level is when a light spell is strong enough to function within a darkened area. On the other hand, it gives us the weird situation where lesser light spells don't count as part of the "otherwise prevailing" lighting conditions within daylight's special negation clause (somewhat in conflict with what the phrase "otherwise prevailing" means).

Oh well, the important thing is it's finally settled. Part of me does agree with Lamontius, though: I feel like the people who could read this blog and say "Oh, I get it!" (and be right) but who could not come to the same place just from reading the existing spell text/FAQs is a very, very small population; in a Venn diagram, those circles would barely be touching (or so I speculate).

Perhaps appending a shorter, usable-at-the-table-when-it-comes-up, bullet-pointed, step-by-step "light condition resolver" to the end of the blog might have been helpful?

Still, overall, this puts it all in one place and answers one of the biggest remaining questions of the whole thing, so well done!

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the detailed break down of the rules. I think my understanding was already correct, but this is a great resource to point other people to that might be confused!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
The #1 issue here is that there isn't a weekly blog opening for this. Even if I had material, it couldn't happen.

Whose bright idea was that? It's apparent to me that the increased visibility of the blog page makes it a brilliantly suited place for focusing on the more opaque aspects of the Pathfinder ruleset, for the sake of clarity as well as adding to the public perception of the PDT as being a shining example of transparency in matters such as these.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Umm, you just confused the hell out of me with Low-light vision for elves..

You stated they basically double the light source, but that is not what it seems to read to me.

Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light.

Here is nothing in there about any levels of light but Dim light, so should'nt only areas of dim light be doubled?

Paizo Employee Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragnmoon wrote:

Umm, you just confused the hell out of me with Low-light vision for elves..

You stated they basically double the light source, but that is not what it seems to read to me.

Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light.

Here is nothing in there about any levels of light but Dim light, so should'nt only areas of dim light be doubled?

Vision and Light, CRB wrote:
Characters with low-light vision (elves, gnomes, and half-elves) can see objects twice as far away as the given radius. Double the effective radius of bright light, normal light, and dim light for such characters.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thorough breakdown of the light and darkness rules. Will make a good reference for PFS.

Question: why didn't this disaster area in the Pathfinder rules get the Unchained treatment? This makes 3.0 grappling look simple. There's always Unchained 2, I suppose. :-)

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am no longer blind to the darkness. :P Thank you very much for this.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
sowhereaminow wrote:

Thorough breakdown of the light and darkness rules. Will make a good reference for PFS.

Question: why didn't this disaster area in the Pathfinder rules get the Unchained treatment? This makes 3.0 grappling look simple. There's always Unchained 2, I suppose. :-)

There was a limited number of pages that we had in Unchained to tackle various parts of the game. While certainly in need of an overhaul, these rules were just not as exciting to us as others we wanted to change.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
sowhereaminow wrote:

Thorough breakdown of the light and darkness rules. Will make a good reference for PFS.

Question: why didn't this disaster area in the Pathfinder rules get the Unchained treatment? This makes 3.0 grappling look simple. There's always Unchained 2, I suppose. :-)

There was a limited number of pages that we had in Unchained to tackle various parts of the game. While certainly in need of an overhaul, these rules were just not as exciting to us as others we wanted to change.

I can see your point there. A lot of subjects were covered in Unchained, and covered rather well. Still never too early to start making a list for Unchained 2, is it?

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:

Umm, you just confused the hell out of me with Low-light vision for elves..

You stated they basically double the light source, but that is not what it seems to read to me.

Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light.

Here is nothing in there about any levels of light but Dim light, so should'nt only areas of dim light be doubled?

Vision and Light, CRB wrote:
Characters with low-light vision (elves, gnomes, and half-elves) can see objects twice as far away as the given radius. Double the effective radius of bright light, normal light, and dim light for such characters.

Thanks Mark, That is an example of rules not in the the right places. This needs to be added to Low-Light Vision for the Races and under the Low-Light Vision section the appendices. Players reading just that get a different interpretation of the Low-Light Vision.

Sczarni

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Awesome-sauce! Now the old Oil of Daylight plus Sundrod combo officially works without table variation. Non-casters rejoice!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
GreyYeti wrote:

Sorry to darken the mood, but there is an error in your example:

Feya can't counterspell the dark slayer's hightened deeper darkness spell-like ability, because spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled. (CRB 221)

But otherwise that blog was very enlightening.

Ah that's true. The special ritualistic heightened deeper darkness must have counted as a spell, since SLAs normally can't be heightened. Tricksy dark folk!

But clearly Feiya has some tricks of her own since she used a lesser reach metamagic rod on a 4th level spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So wait, what? The daylight spell doesn't kill darkness effects AND illuminate the area? They just nullify each other in the overlapping areas?


Plot Thickens wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
GreyYeti wrote:

Sorry to darken the mood, but there is an error in your example:

Feya can't counterspell the dark slayer's hightened deeper darkness spell-like ability, because spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled. (CRB 221)

But otherwise that blog was very enlightening.

Ah that's true. The special ritualistic heightened deeper darkness must have counted as a spell, since SLAs normally can't be heightened. Tricksy dark folk!
But clearly Feiya has some tricks of her own since she used a lesser reach metamagic rod on a 4th level spell.

This blog feels like a really good example of being too clever for your own good.

Examples illustrating rules clarifications are not supposed to be riddled with rules errors -_-.

EDIT:

Ravingdork wrote:
So wait, what? The daylight spell doesn't kill darkness effects AND illuminate the area? They just nullify each other in the overlapping areas?

If I understand correctly, yes, but the darkness only stops working for the purpose of non-magical light sources.

A light cantrip would still not work in an area of darkness+daylight. A candle (or a heightened continual flame) would though.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I think I've been doing daylight wrong - the more you know! <insert shooting star gif here>

Now if only low-light vision let people see better in low-light. (IMO, it ought to remove the concealment from dim light.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dave Gross wrote:

While you shouldn't steal the name "Sage Advice," you should absolutely make this a weekly feature that performs a similar function. With beginners entering the game and old-timers returning to a new rules system, some essential tactical essays like this one would benefit many readers.

Or so I think.

I was thinking this too. A whole volume for rules lawyers would find a market, I think.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd also like an official explanation for how low-light vision works in moonlight/starlight, and this thread seems like a very efficient place to put it. There's a throwaway line at CRB 564 to the effect that creatures w/ low-light vision can see by moonlight as well as they can by day, but it's always seemed weird to me that this piece of info is buried at the back of the book and not mentioned, for instance, in the elf's racial description, so I'd like to know for sure that that's the rule. (And does starlight count then as dim light?) Illuminate me!


Okay, suppose a daylight and a deeper darkness are overlapping in the area; we know that torches, sunrods, campfires, lanterns and the like, or ambient light will illuminate the overlapping area correct?

What about when the 'otherwise prevailing' light source is still within the area of deeper darkness that isn't being overlapped by daylight? Are they still suppressed so their light is not illuminating the overlapping area? Or is the light 'still there' but would normally be suppressed by the deeper darkness spell?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:

Okay, suppose a daylight and a deeper darkness are overlapping in the area; we know that torches, sunrods, campfires, lanterns and the like, or ambient light will illuminate the overlapping area correct?

What about when the 'otherwise prevailing' light source is still within the area of deeper darkness that isn't being overlapped by daylight? Are they still suppressed so their light is not illuminating the overlapping area? Or is the light 'still there' but would normally be suppressed by the deeper darkness spell?

I think the non-overlapping area will not be affected by the other spell, but it would be nice to hear a dev say it so people won't say "you don't know for sure...".


wraithstrike wrote:
Tels wrote:

Okay, suppose a daylight and a deeper darkness are overlapping in the area; we know that torches, sunrods, campfires, lanterns and the like, or ambient light will illuminate the overlapping area correct?

What about when the 'otherwise prevailing' light source is still within the area of deeper darkness that isn't being overlapped by daylight? Are they still suppressed so their light is not illuminating the overlapping area? Or is the light 'still there' but would normally be suppressed by the deeper darkness spell?

I think the non-overlapping area will not be affected by the other spell, but it would be nice to hear a dev say it so people won't say "you don't know for sure...".

There is no 'other spell'.

What I mean is, picture a venn diagram with the overlapping areas being the overlapping area of the two spells.

Now suppose there is a campfire burning in the 'darkness' circle and the radius of light it would, normally, illuminate includes the overlapping area.

However, because there is a darkness spell of some sort suppressing it, does the light from the camp fire still illuminate the overlapping area? The area in which deeper darkness and daylight are overlapping, for further clarification.


Tels wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Tels wrote:

Okay, suppose a daylight and a deeper darkness are overlapping in the area; we know that torches, sunrods, campfires, lanterns and the like, or ambient light will illuminate the overlapping area correct?

What about when the 'otherwise prevailing' light source is still within the area of deeper darkness that isn't being overlapped by daylight? Are they still suppressed so their light is not illuminating the overlapping area? Or is the light 'still there' but would normally be suppressed by the deeper darkness spell?

I think the non-overlapping area will not be affected by the other spell, but it would be nice to hear a dev say it so people won't say "you don't know for sure...".

There is no 'other spell'.

What I mean is, picture a venn diagram with the overlapping areas being the overlapping area of the two spells.

Now suppose there is a campfire burning in the 'darkness' circle and the radius of light it would, normally, illuminate includes the overlapping area.

However, because there is a darkness spell of some sort suppressing it, does the light from the camp fire still illuminate the overlapping area? The area in which deeper darkness and daylight are overlapping, for further clarification.

ok. From what the post said the light source itself is shutdown.

blog wrote:


Darkness spells first negate nonmagical light sources

If the source itself is negated there should be no light.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

"Perhaps appending a shorter, usable-at-the-table-when-it-comes-up, bullet-pointed, step-by-step "light condition resolver" to the end of the blog might have been helpful?"

THIS


3 people marked this as a favorite.

This is definitely an issue that should have pictures and diagrams attached.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:
This is definitely an issue that should have pictures and diagrams attached.

Circles and arrows on the back of each one.....


I concur with some of my other posters here. Please do more articles like these they help out in a big way.

1 to 50 of 102 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Paizo Blog: Illuminating Darkness All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.