I Got Some Cards. Wanna See 'Em?

So does this mean my prayers have been answered? Are we getting a druid class deck? That would the BEST XMAS GIFT EVER!!! Confirm? Please? ;)

Andrew L Klein wrote:

Mechalibur wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

Blog wrote:

The Owner mechanic is one you'll be seeing more of in upcoming sets (coughWrathoftheRighteouscough) and it's featured on every card in the Iconic Heroes miniatures line.

Actually, there is one card in the set that does not have the owner mechanic. And that's all I'm gonna say for now.

Wait, what? Literally every card except one has the owner mechanic in WotR?

Aww c'mon, you've been here long enough to know that anything vague sounding like that is vague on purpose and probably doesn't mean the most literal reading of it :)

I like to think we're less vague and more deliberately obfuscating in these cases.

For example, if you want to know what the Iconic Heroes card is that doesn't have the owner mechanic, don't ask Mark Seifter, because he doesn't know.

See? Not vague at all.

See but that makes me want to ask Mark about it.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Andrew L Klein wrote:

Mechalibur wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

Blog wrote:

The Owner mechanic is one you'll be seeing more of in upcoming sets (coughWrathoftheRighteouscough) and it's featured on every card in the Iconic Heroes miniatures line.

Actually, there is one card in the set that does not have the owner mechanic. And that's all I'm gonna say for now.

Wait, what? Literally every card except one has the owner mechanic in WotR?

Aww c'mon, you've been here long enough to know that anything vague sounding like that is vague on purpose and probably doesn't mean the most literal reading of it :)

I like to think we're less vague and more deliberately obfuscating in these cases.

For example, if you want to know what the Iconic Heroes card is that doesn't have the owner mechanic, don't ask Mark Seifter, because he doesn't know.

See? Not vague at all.

See but that makes me want to ask Mark about it.

I have no clue whatsoever, but as a rogue eidolon myself, I'll put my arbitrary guess on Padrig, Balazar's eidolon, as not having the owner mechanic because his connection to Balazar is so intimate, it's even deeper than the owner mechanic, so he has another mechanic with an even cooler name. Perhaps a "Seifter" mechanic. And when you go tell all your friends and that's wrong, that's what you get for trusting me!

So does this mean my prayers have been answered? Are we getting a druid class deck? That would the BEST XMAS GIFT EVER!!! Confirm? Please? ;)

YASSSS

Please include Charm Animal, Parrots, an Eagle, and a new Lini that's better than S&S Lini plskthnx

Bonus points if it has Resto, but I don't really expect that.

Sarah Bull wrote:

So does this mean my prayers have been answered? Are we getting a druid class deck? That would the BEST XMAS GIFT EVER!!! Confirm? Please? ;)

YASSSS

Please include Charm Animal, Parrots, an Eagle, and a new Lini that's better than S&S Lini plskthnx

Bonus points if it has Resto, but I don't really expect that.

Logically, If Class decks are popular enough for a second wave, I'd expect to see Druid, Paladin, Monk, and Barbarian

Of those, the Druid would be the one I'm most interested in (although Seelah's helm from the miniatures boxes has certainly got my attention...)

I agree. I still get excited over the idea, though.

Part of me hopes that Tarlin gets updated to work as a de facto Paladin, too...

An important question :

It was said that we get all current iconics in six months. Is that means that we will be able to play all iconics in PACG by then ? Or we will have the minis plus owned cards, but no way to actually play them?

As currently some of the iconics weren't featured in any PACG product, or even announced for Wrath. (which is understandable, as there are a lot of iconics to make)

Edit : only six non-occult iconics I can think of left after Wrath - Ninja, Samurai, Brawler, Investigator, Skald and the Slayer. I hope that means a Jade Regent AP. :)

There will be cards for characters that don't exist yet in PACG, I'm sure. That doesn't mean you CAN'T use those cards, you just can't use the "owner" mechanic for them.

...Yet.

ThreeEyedSloth is correct.

Generally, these cards have been designed so that they work just fine if you're not the owner, but if you are the owner—or, in some cases, the same class as the owner—they will be just a bit better for you.

Droogami: Just moving not at the end of a turn is a huge ability, plus there is a bonus explore. You can move to a location with nasty start-of-turn properties or which needs closing, take a regular turn there, leave for another location and explore the other location, and have as much of a turn as you want. Ezren frequently closes a later-deck location in one turn; with Droogami he could do two.

You can move to a location with nasty start-of-turn properties or which needs closing, take a regular turn there, leave for another location and explore the other location, and have as much of a turn as you want.

It was my understanding that you cannot explore after you've done the 'Close Location' step of the turn (not via a Henchman). Therefore, isn't it impossible to use Droogami to continue your turn after you've closed one location?

mlvanbie wrote:

You can move to a location with nasty start-of-turn properties or which needs closing, take a regular turn there, leave for another location and explore the other location, and have as much of a turn as you want.

It was my understanding that you cannot explore after you've done the 'Close Location' step of the turn (not via a Henchman). Therefore, isn't it impossible to use Droogami to continue your turn after you've closed one location?

Really? I thought that was how it worked in practice, as you're usually at a location with no cards to encounter, but I don't recall reading it anywhere explicit.

Longshot11 wrote:

mlvanbie wrote:

You can move to a location with nasty start-of-turn properties or which needs closing, take a regular turn there, leave for another location and explore the other location, and have as much of a turn as you want.

It was my understanding that you cannot explore after you've done the 'Close Location' step of the turn (not via a Henchman). Therefore, isn't it impossible to use Droogami to continue your turn after you've closed one location?

Really? I thought that was how it worked in practice, as you're usually at a location with no cards to encounter, but I don't recall reading it anywhere explicit.

I agree it's not 100% explicit in the rules and maybe Vic will do something about that in Wrath, but that said, there is a golden rules that says you can only play a card at the step where it makes sense if the cards relates to that step.

The text refers at the same time to moving (a step) and exploring (another one).
Does it mean you can only play it during one of those steps ? Thus forbidding for example to do explore location A > close location A > play droogami > move to location B > explore location B ? If you could do that I guess anyway you couldn't close location B since you are done with the closing location step.
Or can you play it ANTYME when allowed, i. e. anytime during your turn as long as :
- it is after drawing from the blessing deck
- it is before resetting your hand
- it is not during a step to which it isn't related (i. e. not during an encounter for example in the case of Droogami)

My guess is the intention was to just allow to move between two explorations while staying in the explore step. But Hawk, Mike, Vic, please come to my rescue on this one.

Note that you could still close two locations during the same turn if you would encounter an henchman in location A, defeat it, close location due to the henchman power, finish that encounter, play Droogami while still being in the explore step, then explore in location B and close (either because of another henchman or because at the end of your explorations in B the location would be empty).

It's there explicitly somewhere, between rulebooks and FAQs. I don't have page numbers memorized or anything, but once you move past the explore steps (each explore generates a new one) and go to the close step, you can no longer explore. Rest assured on the matter, that IS the case.

I'm sure Hawk or someone will come along and point out where exactly, but in the meantime know that you have to close via encounter (henchman/villain) to close more than one location a turn.

EDIT: Here is this, at least:

Sorry to burst your bubble: Cards that let you explore again work by explicitly giving you an additional exploration; nothing to date allows you to attempt to close more than one location during the "Close a Location" step, and nothing to date allows you to get an additional "Close a Location" step. (While henchmen often allow you to close a location, that actually happens during the exploration in which you faced the henchman.)

And much of your confusion can be answered in that thread, Frencois.

There is still some unanswered questions here. Vic points out you don't get your "Close a Location" step twice. But that doesn't totally address the question of "Can you explore during/between other steps?"

For some background, see this thread. Mike says there that your exploring cards allow you to explore after your free explore. That doesn't technically answer the question completely, because "attempt to close a location" is after your free exploration, as is the "anytime window" between "attempt to close your location" and "end your turn".

For example:

Lini closes an empty location during her "Attempt to close a location" step. Then, between that step and "end your turn" she plays Droogami, moves to another location with cards and explores. She might end up encountering a henchman, and she might end up emptying the location deck.

The question is whether Droogami can be played then. If the answer is yes, then we know Lini can't attempt to close the second location by emptying it. But she could attempt to close it from defeating a henchman.

The same issue also arises from closing a location like the General Store as part of your "Attempt to close a location" step, because it was empty. If you do that, can you explore the new cards in the location?

I've personally played it as "once you move to another step, you can't explore any more". I'm not 100% sure it should be like that though. Here are some things I've thought about with it:

1. Does any location's "When Permanently Closed" power tell you to explore? There are some that tell you to acquire a card, but none that I can think of that tell you to explore, though maybe I'm not thinking of one that does. If there were, it would lend support to the idea of exploring during/after the "attempt to close a location" step.

2. There are other actions that you can perform that are typically a part of a step, but that by playing cards can be done outside of a step, such as moving (ex: Amiri, Haste) or giving a card (ex: Merchant, S&S Merisiel's smuggler role). There is a bit more in the rules about exploring then their is about moving and giving.

3. Would this seem to overly limit certain cards? For example, Letters of Marque, which must be played at a closed location and tells you to explore. If you play that after closing a location due to defeating a henchman, it seems straightforward. But what about playing it after closing a location that was empty? Can you play it at all? Can you play it, but must ignore the explore part?

Not a lot of answers here from me, just thoughts. This is really off topic now for this thread. I'd recommend we continue any discussion on either this thread or this one.

Answer to question #1 is no. The locations that add cards to themselves after closing all say encounter, or just let you auto-acquire, with no "explore" verbiage.

Huh, I always played as if closing due to a henchman happened during the explore step since you could immediately attempt to close. Thus you could keep exploring if you had the means. So I've possibly been doing this wrong - although it hardly matters as it may have come up less than five times in all the games I've played.

But with the possible advent of Droogami every turn on S&S Lini I can see it becoming an important distinction.

Edit: And looking at the rules and back at the thread again it seems I've been doing it right as regards henchmen. Teach me to post while tired. :)

There is still some unanswered questions here....

Yes Hawk. Following your advice, let's get back to some other thread.

I agree with Hawkmoon's 2. Cards like Giant Badger and Merchant (or Droogami) for that matter would break if "giving a card" and "move" gave you a phase limit because they're phases in the game. So if explore does have a phase limit because explore is related to the explore phase, why doesn't it and why isn't it mentioned anywhere?

It was my understanding that you cannot explore after you've done the 'Close Location' step of the turn (not via a Henchman). Therefore, isn't it impossible to use Droogami to continue your turn after you've closed one location?

I had meant closing via a henchman. My group sets up locations for other characters all the time.

However, I'm glad that the misunderstanding sparked an interesting discussion.

I really don't like where this is headed.

Having a bunch of class decks outside of the subscription is one thing, but releasing exclusive cards in non-Adventure Card Game products is outrageous. No thank you. After Skull and Shackles, I am done here.

There have been so many mistakes with this game. Delays like you wouldn't believe. So many printing errors from text to cutting the cards. This is seriously some amateur hour. When was the last time a text error appeared on a Magic card? Years, maybe the first few printings. My Rise of the Runelords decks are all misshapen because you guys couldn't cut them all the same size. Your card guild was delayed, then the next base set is delayed. Every card I play now I have to figure our house rules simply because the game is not ready yet.

All that stuff I have lived with, defended Paizo to others about. But now you are releasing cards, exclusive cards, where I have to buy an entirely separate product to get. Come on guys. This is not the way to go.

Casey, as someone who wants to own all the cards, I can get where you are coming from. And there are definitely people out there that don't want the miniatures but do want the cards (I'm not one of those people, but my good friend Calthaer is).

But, consider this for the moment. Paizo is doing a few things with this product:

1. There were people that wanted to use miniatures when they played the card game. The problem was, some of the iconic miniatures were really expensive to get. Sometimes close to $10 per miniature. So it was too costly. So, in one sense, Paizo is doing what a significant part of the community asked for.

2. There were non-card game people that also wanted the iconic miniatures for RPG. But again, they were rather expensive.

3. The best thing that can happen for PACG is for the player base to grow. It is still a relatively new product line. I want to see it stick around for a long time (forever sounds best to me). To do that, they need to bring in more players.

Paizo used those first two factors to create a crossover product that will help that third factor. An RPG player who has never played the card game might pick one of this miniature packs up and decide "Well, now I own a couple of card. I might as well see what this game is all about." So this provides a way to get new players into the game.

Now, I totally understand where you are coming from. It ate me up that I didn't subscribe from day 1 and I missed some of the RotR promo cards. I had even resolved to not subscribe for any of RotR because I knew that if I had even 1 promo card, the desire to have them all would be all the greater and too damaging to my bank account. (I ended up jumping on as a subscriber with deck 5 because I wanted to have a better shot at getting a first printing complete set. But that is another story.) So I totally get how you feel about wanting all the cards.

But in the end, I think this can only be a good thing for PACG. More players equals more longevity for the game. I'm sure some of those RPG players won't want the cards and will sell them. Maybe we should even look into starting a thread to match up RPG players with PACG players to "split the product". Or if you have a local store that sells RPG stuff you could talk to them and see if they could help you find someone that would want to split the product with you.

(As an aside, MTG was plagued with more than a few printing issues as well, and also has the distinction of having its first set have two printings that have different card cuts. You can ask Vic Wertz more about that if you want.)

You are free to feel however you feel about this product or PACG. I'm not trying to say you aren't. But honestly, even if I don't buy all of these, if they bring more people into the game, then it only helps me.

As for printing delays, I don't really know what else Paizo can do there. They are using what I think is the largest card printer in the US. If anything, Paizo's mistake might be that they are too open and honest about their products. They could have simply said "Wrath is the next adventure path and will come out in the Spring of 2015" and they could have done the same with the class decks. But they are pretty open about their scheduled dates for products. It looks like they discovered the printer can't handle an adventure path, plus 7 class decks every 6 months. So they are going to (for now) have to slow down the scheduled slightly. Maybe the printer expands and ramps up their production capabilities, maybe Paizo looks for a new printer, who knows.

There are, perhaps, still some growing pains with PACG. But one of the great things is that you can take part in how it grows more than any other game I've seen or heard of. Maybe that isn't for you, and I get that. But lots of products have printing issues. (I just recently picked up Pandemic and had to check whether my board was one of the ones with a missing connection line.)

Honestly, sorry you had a bad experience and if you don't stick with PACG I hope you find something you can enjoy as much as you wanted to enjoy this. I just wanted to share my perspective, which is no more valid than yours. I hope Skull and Shackles ends in victory for you. Good luck on your adventure.

Comparing a 2 year old game in terms of editing and a 20 year old game in terms of editing is fundamentally unfair. If you've ever seen any early edition MtG cards you'll understand what I mean (Revised cards being much lighter than the rest, the funky Mirage card smell, etc). That being said, I do think that Paizo has had a lot of editing issues recently, and they've been trying to correct it.

Zeroth hit the nail on the head. An accurate comparison would be that both games had early print issues.

As for different sizes, RotR switched printers, so yes there were different sizes because the new one couldn't matches the old. All sets for that path were printed in both sizes and were available. Would you get mad that a reprint of another game has expansions not compatible with the first print? I'd hope not, because that's crazy.

The delays of S&S were also caused by the printer switch. They found out the hard way they underestimated the interest in the game and how quickly they had to churn out so much. It's really not that odd, and is most certainly not unique to this game.

Most of your issues seem to be things that, in my opinion, should not be very surprising when switching to a new printer and have very little to do with Paizo and more to do with more interes in the game than was expected. Heck, to me, I'm almost OK with a one time chain reaction caused by so much interest in the game because that tells me that once the problems are resolved (which they 99% are), the game is going to be around for a while. Even when they do have a problem they fix it. They sent me a free replacement S&S base set within days when some of my boons were miscut. They're sending free correction packs for the mistakes in an adventure or two, and even including an extra scenario to make use of the extra cards that were mistakenly added to the adventure.

If you want to compare to Magic, tell me this -- if you opened a booster box with 36 packs, and 6 packs worth were miscut, do you think Wizards would replace any of those cards? Nope, not one. Luckily, it's a CCG and miscuts are frequently worth some money.

I am surprised to see that because of exclusive cards you suddenly lost interest in the game. That's like saying you didn't get some promo cards so you don't like the game anymore.

I think it's because just like a lot of us, you are a completionist and would rather prefer to have all the cards available and it irks you when your collection of cards is not complete, or that you are missing out. But I don't see that as Paizo's problem and instead is a personality problem.

Those exclusive cards does not suddenly make the game bad. It is still a great game. Since you compared it to MTG you should compare how a collectible card game compares to card game like PACG. To have all the cards in MTG you have to continually invest in hundreds and hundreds of dollars. But guess what, not everyone has to have each card. Same with PACG. Technically, those exclusives are just bonus.

And with regards to the printing issues, the guys before me already explained why, and I too prefer companies willing to admit their errors and why things are delayed. There are a lot of companies out there that would not reveal release dates for this reason, nor would they reveal why something is delayed, or even respond to questions at all.

With that said, regardless of what you decide about the game, I am sorry for your experience with the game. Hopefully when Paizo smooths everything out you will come back to us and enjoy their game. Meanwhile, we will enjoy the game and will support Paizo while they improve so that maybe you and many other people will enjoy the game as well.

Certainly you must know that coming to the primary discussion boards for a card game and criticizing it in any way will unleash a torrent of defensive fan dissents.

That being said, I am quite the fan of this game, and have been since before its release...and yet I, too, dislike the bundling of the cards with the miniatures, as Hawkmoon as stated. I understand the business reasons, but don't like the bundling of cards with extraneous / unnecessary products. I suppose the minis are nice, but Hawkmoon makes a wicked set of stand-ups, and they serve me and my fellow gaming friends quite well.

I myself plan on buying the cards and minis and then offloading the minis on the secondary market. Paying $1.50 to $2 per card is probably cheap compared to what they'll go for later, like the promo cards.

Zeroth hit the nail on the head. An accurate comparison would be that both games had early print issues.

OK that calls for a note from the old guy who actually was there to buy all the MTG alpha cards and all the following ones until I got tired after 25.000 cards or so.

Casey,

Our helpful community has already addressed many of your points, but I'd like to address this one:

When was the last time a text error appeared on a Magic card? Years, maybe the first few printings.

They have the *exact* same sort of issues we do. Always have, always will. While I update our FAQ on the fly whenever we discover and solve a problem, they batch their changes into "Update Bulletins." Fate Reforged was released two weeks ago, and the Update Bulletin released with that set comes in two parts: cards and rules.

Wow, I never knew those update bulletins existed. The rules lawyer in me feels like I just discovered the best book ever.

Wow, I never knew those update bulletins existed. The rules lawyer in me feels like I just discovered the best book ever.

Same here.

Now, if only I cared more about MtG...

Andrew L Klein wrote:

Zeroth hit the nail on the head. An accurate comparison would be that both games had early print issues.

OK that calls for a note from the old guy who actually was there to buy all the MTG alpha cards and all the following ones until I got tired after 25.000 cards or so.

There was MORE mistakes in MTG. That's why they had to BAN cards.
We never BANNED a PACG card. We fix it thanks to Vic, Mike and others.
It's better for the game AND much better in terms of including us in the game building process - even if it's just a little, it's so cool to put your own mark in the game.
AND, as a subscriber to both the minis and the cards who asked many times for it, I can't tell you how loud was my "YES!" when they issued that line of iconics.
I understand your point of view, but don't make it a rule.

While I didn't start playing MtG until Unlimited, I agree that any perception that the early years of Magic were error-free is highly mistaken.

Some stuff off the top of my head:
Packs with land as your "rare" card
Packs with mis-sorted cards so possibly all commons, possibly all rares
Cards getting held up in customs - sometimes a store would get sets over a month after "release."
Grossly underestimating demand - the Legends set sold out in a 50-mile radius of my house in under an hour, sometimes before the store in question actually opened.(I.e. more people in line than they had product)
All sorts of weird rumors and misinformation - "We'll print the Unlimited set forever, that's why it's called unlimited." "We'll never reprint Legends." In the pre-internet era it was hard to sort out what was fact and what was rumor, but it was easy to get the impression that WotC was lying to us about the game.

PACG has had nowhere near the nasty growing pains that Magic did.

Some stuff off the top of my head:

1. Packs with land as your "rare" card
2. Packs with mis-sorted cards so possibly all commons, possibly all rares
3. Cards getting held up in customs - sometimes a store would get sets over a month after "release."
4. Grossly underestimating demand - the Legends set sold out in a 50-mile radius of my house in under an hour, sometimes before the store in question actually opened.(I.e. more people in line than they had product)
5. All sorts of weird rumors and misinformation - "We'll print the Unlimited set forever, that's why it's called unlimited." "We'll never reprint Legends." In the pre-internet era it was hard to sort out what was fact and what was rumor, but it was easy to get the impression that WotC was lying to us about the game.

PACG has had nowhere near the nasty growing pains that Magic did.

I can address many of those. I've numbered them for reference.

1. That was us not knowing any better. Remember, we started by printing 10 million cards, and we thought that would last a year. With only a few thousand of each rare card in existence, we thought that many people would never see some rare cards. Legends would be told: "I heard a guy over in Birmingham has a black creature that's 7/7!" But it didn't last a year—it was sold out before it was technically released. Until then, we thought you'd *need* land, not that you'd have *too much* of it, so we put a little on every sheet. (We figured out we were wrong after we sent Arabian Nights to the printer, but before it was actually printed, and we asked the printer to remove all the basic lands, but they accidentally left a Mountain in...)

2. Printer error. Sucks, but it happens. (The PACG equivalent is when somebody opens a double-deck box and gets two copies of the same wrapped deck.)

3. Welcome to the world of shipping.

4. When your growth is explosive, and you have to set print runs four months before release, this happens. The scary part is that with every set up to Fallen Empires, we asked all of our distributors for the quantities they wanted, and then we ordered a *lot* more than that, and by the time it came in, it still wasn't enough.

5. I can promise that Wizards never lied about the game while I was there, and probably not afterwards either. At the time you're talking about, Magic was evolving so quickly that many statements about the future were out-of-date before customers heard them, but that's very different from "lying." We also heard a lot of stories from retailers who told their customers we said things that we never said and never *would* have said.

But to talk about one specific example, at one point, we actually did intend to print Unlimited forever. Our plan, once we introduced it, was that it would evolve over time. We wouldn't change the packaging, but each time we reprinted it, we would drop some cards and add some cards. We even sent one of those revisions to the printer, but our customers persuaded us that we should label the revisions, so we didn't print it, and instead (eventually) replaced it with 4th Edition.

You can't know everything you need to know about your own game until your hear from your customers. We were learning a lot about making Magic at that time, just as we're learning a lot about making PACG right now.

I can address many of those. I've numbered them for reference.

1. That was us not knowing any better. Remember, we started by printing 10 million cards, and we thought that would last a year. With only a few thousand of each rare card in existence, we thought that many people would never see some rare cards. Legends would be told: "I heard a guy over in Birmingham has a black creature that's 7/7!" But it didn't last a year—it was sold out before it was technically released. Until then, we thought you'd *need* land, not that you'd have *too much* of it, so we put a little on every sheet. (We figured out we were wrong after we sent Arabian Nights to the printer, but before it was actually printed, and we asked the printer to remove all the basic lands, but they accidentally left a Mountain in...)

2. Printer error. Sucks, but it happens. (The PACG equivalent is when somebody opens a double-deck box and gets two copies of the same wrapped deck.)

3. Welcome to the world of shipping.

4. When your growth is explosive, and you have to set print runs four months before release, this happens. The scary part is that with every set up to Fallen Empires, we asked all of our distributors for the quantities they wanted, and then we ordered a *lot* more than that, and by the time it came in, it still wasn't enough.

5. I can promise that Wizards never lied about the game while I was there, and probably not afterwards either. At the time you're talking about, Magic was evolving so quickly that many statements about the future were out-of-date before customers heard them, but that's very different from "lying." We also heard a lot of stories from retailers who told their customers we said things that we never said and never *would* have said.

Thanks Vic for the history lesson, it's nice to get the lowdown from somebody who was actually there. I wasn't even in college and Seattle was the furthest thing from my mind when I first played Magic, so actually being able to come here and having the community is an amazing thing. I'm so glad I got the opportunity.

I remember Fallen Empires. It seemed that there was an overcompensation in the power level up to that point and it was deliberately underpowered, but it also ended up costing a lot of sales because nobody wanted to buy it. Homelands was pretty bad too in terms of power level.

I hope I actually get to talk to you in person one of these days.

4. When your growth is explosive, and you have to set print runs four months before release, this happens. The scary part is that with every set up to Fallen Empires, we asked all of our distributors for the quantities they wanted, and then we ordered a *lot* more than that, and by the time it came in, it still wasn't enough.

I'm going to amend myself on that. Up until Fallen Empires, while we asked distributors for input, and that input usually came too early to be effective, we did not *always* order a lot more than their numbers indicated—it took a couple sets for us to learn that behavior.

I know from talking with some game store owners, that leading up to Fallen Empires they kept ramping up their orders - basically the attitude was "well if I'm only going to get 10% of my order then I'll order more to compensate," - then they actually got their order with Fallen Empires and suddenly had way, way more product than they really wanted. I know of at least one game store when I was in college that went out of business because of making that mistake while trying to game the system.

Thanks for the response, Vic! Back in the early 90s when MtG was new our only sources of info were the Duelist and game store owners, so there was a lot of misinformation. I remember being somewhat bitter over the fact that it seemed easier to get Legends in Italian than in English. The Unlimited thing sticks in my head because of an incident at a gaming con around the time Arabian Nights was new - a friend of mine bought an Unlimited Black Lotus for $1.50(yep). Her boyfriend yelled at her that he couldn't believe she would pay so much for a white-bordered card so she returned it. The thought was that it would be in print forever so why pay so much? (hah thinking that was "expensive" for a card)

Oh we really had no clue back then.

I remember being somewhat bitter over the fact that it seemed easier to get Legends in Italian than in English.

Weird! Being a teenager at the time, in an era with barely any internet, I wondered why I was able to get all these Italian cards from the Dark expansion for pennies on the dollar. I didn't realize it was a supply thing, though maybe I should've. :D

mlvanbie wrote:

You can move to a location with nasty start-of-turn properties or which needs closing, take a regular turn there, leave for another location and explore the other location, and have as much of a turn as you want.

It was my understanding that you cannot explore after you've done the 'Close Location' step of the turn (not via a Henchman). Therefore, isn't it impossible to use Droogami to continue your turn after you've closed one location?

No exploring outside of your explore step. Resolved in FAQ.

Thanks. This may have been my longest "open question" for PACG. And it is how I've been playing it. It limits some cards (Letters of Marque) but I think it makes so much sense.

I know it's not necessary, but what if Letter of Marque was errata'd to encounter instead of explore, but also had a clause limiting it to your turn? That way you could play it before your move step or after your close step.

Not that I'm saying that should be done to all or even several cards, that would defeat the purpose of this clarification errata. I just feel that Loot should be awesome, and the Letter is somewhat lacking the way it is.

Question: we are about to replay rise of the runelords, can we add these promos when building our deck for the first time if we are playing the iconic?

Question: we are about to replay rise of the runelords, can we add these promos when building our deck for the first time if we are playing the iconic?

Yes. Take a look at the back of the box: "New Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Rule: Owners". If you're playing the matching character for your card, it can go in your starting deck. Effectively, it's a Basic card for you.

Has anyone in the UK managed to get hold of these yet?