A Tale of Two Covers

Friday, August 1, 2014

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide is only a few weeks from release, and we're all getting excited about what the book has to offer. Over the last several weeks, we've revealed a ton of details about the 10 classes in the book, from hints at their game details to a look at the backgrounds of the iconic characters that represent them in the book's art. Looking over the final hardcover here on my desk, I'm enormously proud of the work our team has put into it, and I'm grateful for the tireless efforts of our playtesters, who made the Advanced Class Guide shine with their diligent testing and commentary. We could not have done this book without you, and we're all really pleased with how it came together.

With one major exception.

The cover of the Advanced Class Guide contains a huge error of the most embarrassing kind imaginable—we printed the book with the wrong logo.

That's right, the Advanced Class Guide, in many ways the most important release of the year, features the wrong logo. Instead of the "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game" logo, the hardcover's front cover features the "Pathfinder Adventure Path" logo.

The story of how something like this slipped through our assiduous quality controls turns out to be pretty boring. On the third round of back-and-forth changes after the book was sent to the printer, an image link somehow got changed, switching the logo to the wrong one at the absolute last minute. After the last minute, in fact. We have sign-off approval sheets for every stage of editing. Multiple employees sign off on the correct logos, on the trademark circle, on the "printed in country," basically on every single element of a book. But this error was introduced after all of those safeguards had been correctly adhered to, and the first time we noticed the mistake was when the first copies arrived from the printer.

Naturally, we were mortified and checked with our printer about turning around a ship with tens of thousands of copies of our book, destroying them, and reprinting from scratch. That effort would have cost more than $100,000, and resulted in literally tons of 99.9999% correct books going into a landfill. We've had considerable success over the last few years, but honestly there's a lot more that we can do with $100,000 to benefit the game above and beyond wiping some egg from our faces. Ultimately, after lots of consideration, we decided that it wasn't worth the expense to fix the logo.

And to be clear, the misprint concerns about three square inches on the front cover. The logo on the spine is correct. The logo on the cover page is correct. The logo on the back is correct. The logo on every spread in the book is correct. One image link broke, to one logo. Yes, it's the most important one, and yes, that's very embarrassing, but ultimately it makes no difference to the book's content. Many folks I've shown the book to did not even notice the difference, as the logos are very similar.

We've already shipped the book to a few distributors. Subscribers could start receiving them as early as next week. Many of you will notice the different logo, and will naturally have questions. I wanted to get out in front of that and explain what went wrong, and why we decided not to fix it.

It's a bummer. It's something we'll fix on subsequent printings, assuming that we do them. We considered making a sticker, or a paper wrap-around cover, or just about anything, but ultimately decided that it wouldn't make much of a difference. The covers are screwed up. Putting a little sticker over the mistake wouldn't fix the mistake, it'd just make the book look even more messed up.

So, yeah. Lame. The Advanced Class Guide has the Pathfinder Adventure Path logo on it. We apologize for the inconvenience this will cause to bibliophiles everywhere. Know that we feel your pain.

The book remains incredible, despite the cosmetic error. We're sure you'll really like it, and we've taken what steps we can to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.

Thanks for your understanding.

Erik Mona
Publisher

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

And hold your breath until they do what you want.

Shadow Lodge

Alright, I can no longer tell which of these are legit complaints and which are sarcastic. Halp plz.

Shadow Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

And the Paizo Fan Brigade arrives to ridicule a perfectly valid negative response.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
TOZ wrote:
And the Paizo Fan Brigade arrives to ridicule a perfectly valid negative response.

Yeah, their reactions to a legitimate customer complaint struck me as bad form too.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I apologize. Its true, the book is ruined, I will never be able to play one of these classes.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
I apologize.

If I thought you were sincere, that might be accepted.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Claiming the book as being faulty and worthless is equivalent to insisting the original campaign setting hardcover, with its 'Inner Sea Reigon' map is faulty and worthless.

A negative response is valid. It is an error, after all. But that degree of negativism is a blatant overreaction. "First rule for any business: the customer doesn't pay your mistakes" is like "the customer is always right": a blatant falsehood that ignores how running a business actually works in exchange for creating a sense of entitlement.

(Nor does the Amazon cover have any bearing, otherwise every product that still has a mock-up cover on Amazon is faulty.)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:

Claiming the book as being faulty and worthless is equivalent to insisting the original campaign setting hardcover, with its 'Inner Sea Reigon' map is faulty and worthless.

Where did worthless come into the discussion? The book is faulty. Paizo fully admitted that. And so, having not been warned before purchase, he decided that returning it for a refund was the course he would take.

Ross Byers wrote:
A negative response is valid. It is an error, after all. But that degree of negativism is a blatant overreaction. "First rule for any business: the customer doesn't pay your mistakes" is like "the customer is always right": a blatant falsehood that ignores how running a business actually works in exchange for creating a sense of entitlement.

Then by all means take umbrage with the falsehood itself, not the valid complaint.

(It is nice to be able to discuss these things with you Ross, now that you are no longer busy moderating the forums. :)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I believe that is what I am doing. His complaint is valid, but his reaction, in my opinion, is disproportionate. He admits it isn't a big deal, but then demands some type of recompense or discount for the mistake. Is it one thing, or the other?

There is an entire thread of things that are more worth getting upset over than the logo on the cover.

Shadow Lodge

There is an entire forum of things more worth getting upset over, in my opinion. ;)

Doesn't stop a person from getting upset either.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Unrelated inquiry, I've yet to find the pattern for when you switch between TriOmegaZero and TOZ, in the same thread.


That's what you get for assuming there is one.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

It's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in an awesome rack!

...wait, wrong reference.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
the customer doesn't pay your mistakes" is like "the customer is always right": a blatant falsehood that ignores how running a business actually works in exchange for creating a sense of entitlement.

The customer is always right - except when he's wrong. :-)

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ed Reppert wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
the customer doesn't pay your mistakes" is like "the customer is always right": a blatant falsehood that ignores how running a business actually works in exchange for creating a sense of entitlement.
The customer is always right - except when he's wrong. :-)

Not Always Right

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fromper wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
the customer doesn't pay your mistakes" is like "the customer is always right": a blatant falsehood that ignores how running a business actually works in exchange for creating a sense of entitlement.
The customer is always right - except when he's wrong. :-)
Not Always Right

Was waiting for it =) Equal parts love this site (because it's hilarious) and hate it (because it confirms my despair and loathing for the human race is not unfounded).


TriOmegaZero wrote:

It's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in an awesome rack!

...wait, wrong reference.

Ugh, I used to love that strip, but I shipped Faye and Martin pretty hard.


Tels wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:

It's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in an awesome rack!

...wait, wrong reference.

Ugh, I used to love that strip, but I shipped Faye and Martin pretty hard.

BURN the heretic!

Spoiler:
Faye/Dora! I still have hope.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Tels wrote:
Ugh, I used to love that strip, but I shipped Faye and Martin pretty hard.

I'm totally down with Faye/Angus, but I understand. Honestly the best part now is May. And Hanners of course.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Tels wrote:
Ugh, I used to love that strip, but I shipped Faye and Martin pretty hard.
I'm totally down with Faye/Angus, but I understand. Honestly the best part now is May. And Hanners of course.

I would have found the Faye/Sven thing to be better if Marten had actually had a realistic reaction. I mean, Faye lead him on for a long time, and then, essentially, told him it would never work out because she has intimacy issues and wouldn't be able to 'be' with him... Then turns around and sleeps with Sven like right after.

I dunno, felt like the years leading up to that conversation as I'd been following the comic for a long time, were all kind of pointless. I dunno, I felt Marten should have been really hurt by that and it felt like the author just glossed it over.


Ross Byers wrote:
Unrelated inquiry, I've yet to find the pattern for when you switch between TriOmegaZero and TOZ, in the same thread.

He hasn't found a pattern, either. :P

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The pattern is-SQUIRREL!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Once you see through the Veil, the mystery unfolds itself, revealing...

PAIZO'S HARMONIC
SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
TOZ CUBE

{returns to licking blotter tabs of the ACG}

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Having "Adventure Path" instead of "Roleplaying Game" on the cover means you KNOW it's a first-printing copy. :)

Can't wait for the next issue in this new Adventure Path, but it might take my table a few months to play through this one. ;)


I'll treasure my copy to be sure.


Did this ever get to the point of a second run with a corrected cover?

Just curious if it was time for me to order a second copy for my collection.

It's not showing on the errata page, but if they didn't change the guts, I suppose it wouldn't.

Thanks!

Project Manager

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yep, but it went to the printer fairly recently, so we don't have it yet.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber

Are there errata other than the cover?

Is there going to be a published list of errata for those of us with a first-edition printing? (And, hopefully, will the PDF be updated?)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Advanced Class Guide is infamous for the amount of errata that people were screaming about, to the degree that people were demanding the errata to be released before the second print edition came out. So undoubtedly there will be a lot of changes.

Silver Crusade

rknop wrote:

Are there errata other than the cover?

Is there going to be a published list of errata for those of us with a first-edition printing? (And, hopefully, will the PDF be updated?)

From what Erik and Mark have been saying here and there, it sounds like the ACG has been *thoroughly* checked for errors. E.g., <from Erik>:

Erik Mona wrote:
ACG errata is being worked on now, and has been worked on for quite some time [...] part of the process involved having the entire book re-edited from cover to cover, which is more than just spotting errors pointed out here and addressing them (we're doing that, too).

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Samy wrote:
Advanced Class Guide is infamous for the amount of errata that people were screaming about, to the degree that people were demanding the errata to be released before the second print edition came out. So undoubtedly there will be a lot of changes.

To clarify, people where not "demanding" the errata be released before the second printing. That's very misleading. About a year ago, that is what everyone was told would happen, because there where so many errors and issues with the book. They where also told it would be sooner rather than later.

Liberty's Edge

Jessica Price wrote:
Yep, but it went to the printer fairly recently, so we don't have it yet.

Wait ... WHAT recently went to the printer? Are you talking about the second printing? If so, that's big news!!!!

Project Manager

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Yup, errata's coming too.


DM Beckett wrote:
Samy wrote:
Advanced Class Guide is infamous for the amount of errata that people were screaming about, to the degree that people were demanding the errata to be released before the second print edition came out. So undoubtedly there will be a lot of changes.
To clarify, people where not "demanding" the errata be released before the second printing. That's very misleading. About a year ago, that is what everyone was told would happen, because there where so many errors and issues with the book. They where also told it would be sooner rather than later.

Really? I don't recall that. Can you post some links on that? That sounds like it'd be very interesting to make note of. Specifically the "before second printing" part.

Liberty's Edge

Jessica Price wrote:
Yup, errata's coming too.

Wow! Awesome!

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
DM Beckett wrote:
About a year ago, that is what everyone was told would happen, because there where so many errors and issues with the book. They where also told it would be sooner rather than later.
Really? I don't recall that. Can you post some links on that? That sounds like it'd be very interesting to make note of. Specifically the "before second printing" part.

Probably thinking of <this post> from 30 Oct 2014:

Erik Mona wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Howzabout making an exception to the rule and releasing ACG errata despite not having to reprint the book yet? While I adore much of the content, it could certainly do with an update, not the least to make sure one can read a thread about ACG without having to wade through "I felt sexually assaulted by this book" comments from our resident, erm, "passionate gamers"?

We'll have an ACG errata sooner rather than later. The book has almost sold through its first print run, so we won't even need to do it "early."

However, in the meantime I am having the entire book re-proofed to catch as many errors as we can. I know there is an unacceptably high number of errors that involve rules elements, but the book has more typos and other sloppiness in simple running text than I'm comfortable with, and I want to make sure we fix before we reprint. Some of that stuff will reveal more errata material, I suspect.

So, soon.


I purchased the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide from Amazon and received a book that has an upside down cover as well as the misprinted logo. HOW MUCH CAN I GET FOR IT? Oh and has anyone else received one of these?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

ia, ia, ACG misprint AP arise ia!

Congratulations.

You have found the Mysterious Enigma Cover. It is so mysterious that even Paizo hasn't figured out quite what to do about/with it!

On the plus side, with the development of a new edition, the mystery will never be solved, like the death of Aroden, the reason goblins as crazy little psycopaths are good PC material, or the disturbing dilemma of Cure Light Wound Wands.

And no, it's not because paladins are Lawful Good. :P


So I just got a copy of Pathfinder Adventure Path: Advanced Class Guide in the mail today. It indicates inside that it is the second printing from August 2015 but still has the Adventure Path logo on the cover.

Is it still a common issue with the second printing?

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