Pathfinder Battles Preview: Behind the Scenes

Friday, January 14, 2014

In the comments thread to last week's Pathfinder Battles preview, user Pigraven asked several questions about the Pathfinder Battles product line that might be good fodder for a blog. The community thought that would be a good idea, and so do I. So in addition to posting three more figures from the upcoming Reign of Winter set of prepainted plastic gaming figures this evening, I thought I'd also go through Pigraven's questions and provide some quick answers.

Q: How much does ease of sculpt matter? Do they tend to rule out certain characters or creatures because they worry a sculpt might prove too worrisome?

Ease of sculpt informs rarity more than anything else. Most of the figures in a Pathfinder Battles set are composed of between 2 and 8 parts, with the figures that require more pieces generally falling into the rare or uncommon categories. Occasionally, after I've put together a proposed set list, WizKids will consult with their factory and make suggestions for a few "rarity swaps." This is generally a pretty painless process, but it can cause some potential problems. For example, I'm currently working on a set list for an upcoming set that includes an Attic Whisperer, a child skeleton spirit thing that is creepy as hell. I'd slated it at the uncommon rarity, because you really don't need a handful of these (most Attic Whisperer encounters involve a single creature), but because the factory came back saying that it would only require 2 pieces, WizKids suggested that we move it to common. Doing that would result in too many Attic Whisperers in a given case, so I probably won't go along with their suggestion in that case.

To date, the only figure we have chosen not to make due to sculpt complexity is Baba Yaga's Hut, which I really wanted to be the limited edition case incentive figure for Reign of Winter, but the factory said that doing it right would simply be too expensive.

Q: What role does the potential paint process play in their decision-making? As we've seen, this entire line is a process. And like any great artist or musician, part of the process is always working to perfect a craft. We know that there are issues with some Medium-sized, human faces in these lines; does this influence the amount of these characters Paizo chooses?

Not yet. I'm impressed with WizKids' ability to improve the paint process from Legends of Golarion to Wrath of the Righteous, which we've already covered in detail here. I take a look at the overall quality of the paint application both in my own cases and packs that I open here at the office and in reports from consumers on this and other sites, and send along comments on WizKids, who do their best to make improvements. Sometimes that means simplifying paint masters, sometimes that probably means refining the tooling, and sometimes that probably means a manager at the plant standing over someone's shoulder and making sure they do the right thing. Even with all of those controls, we're still talking about a mass-produced product, here, so there are going to be some problems. I've definitely moved a figure from uncommon to rare, for example, because I was dubious that the plant could pull off the quality we needed at the lesser rarity.

Q: Is there a specific ratio per set that they aim for in regards to enemies & good guys? Humans & other creatures?

Not really. I make all of the decisions as to what stuff to include. Sometimes WizKids or some of my colleagues at Paizo make their own suggestions, and I try to accommodate them as much as possible. About my only "rule" is that once per set I like to include one figure simply because I want it. There are certain perks to being the publisher. Just ask my friends the Seaweed Siren and Gibrileth Demon.

Q: Is each set an entirely new entity, or do they allow what they already have released play a role in what makes it into a new set? For example, Wrath of the Righteous is very demon-heavy, so it seems natural to load up on demons for the set. There are a few demons that appear in Reign of Winter, including some Cold-specific ones. Theoretically, would they hesitate to put a demon in the new set after including so many demons and other outsiders in the last set?

"They" is really "I" in this case, and generally speaking I wouldn't hesitate to put a cold demon into the Reign of Winter set if it seemed appropriate and there were not better/cooler figures in the mix. I am a little burned out on winged female demons, however, so my own fatigue with certain types of figures (and my impression of what the audience wants/is tired of) definitely plays a role. That said, I'll probably be laying off demons in general for a while, because we've done so many of them generally. That wouldn't keep me from including a demon we haven't done, but it will keep me from putting another Serpent Demon or Fire Demon in a set for a while.

Q: How much does potential mass appeal play into the decision-making process? Do you ever rule out particular characters or creatures because you don't think they have a wide enough appeal outside the particular adventure? For example, there haven't been too many plant miniatures that appear in your line, despite a fair amount of creative creatures and well drawn illustrations to choose from. Is this because you speculate that if given an opportunity, more people using miniatures would likely choose a devil or aberration to use in their homemade campaign than, say, a Basidirond?

Lack of plant creatures at the moment is more a coincidence than anything else. It does really help to have excellent art that would work with the round base of a size-appropriate figure, meaning that something like a long assassin vine might need a new illustration before I send it to WizKids. I do not have a particular bias toward devils and against basidironds. If I had a good opportunity to put one in where it was thematically appropriate, I'd do so. In fact, I'll make sure to add some plant creatures to an upcoming set specifically due to this question!

Q: How much do other lines-both past and present-matter when making decisions for a set? For example, how about the Reaper Pathfinder minis? Do you look at that line and think "Well, there is already a sculpt for this particular character, so we could keep this out of the pre-painted set for awhile and include him somewhere down the line?" The old D&D pre-painted lines have hundreds of different characters and sculpts and were around for the better part of a decade. Most of them are still readily available on different websites, including plenty at affordable prices. Does this play a role at all when deciding what makes it into the Pathfinder sets?

I'd say this matters a little. When deciding which creatures not to include in the Rise of the Runelords set, for example, I definitely felt better cutting a figure if I knew there was a Reaper version available. I've been collecting prepainted plastic figures since they first came out, so one bias I definitely have is toward figures that are relatively popular creatures of fantasy, but which have never been done in prepainted plastic before. That said, if you fill each set with a ton of obscure corner cases it tends to alienate newer/more casual collectors, so you've really got to balance things carefully.

Q: How much input from these boards are considered when making selections? While I realize this is just a small set of the people who ultimately buy the product, I would assume there are still good ideas to be had from posters on here.

I've incorporated a ton of the feedback provided here into the development of the line in general. From figure suggestions to criticisms of paint applications or sculpts, I read everything and rely on your feedback for most decisions I make about this (or any of our other) product line(s).

Q: When you are in the decision-making process for what miniatures make it into a set based off an Adventure Path, do you have a master list containing each character and creature found in the adventure?

Yes. I generally make this myself, although with newer Adventure Paths that have more art (due to higher art budgets than we enjoyed in 2008, for example) I tend to do a "first pass" based mostly on what art really catches my eye. Luckly, we have good illustrations of most if not all of the really important characters, so they tend to get swept up in this initial dragnet. Then I look at all of the encounters of stuff that you fight, but that are not illustrated in the Adventure Path. If there's a good illustration of that monster elsewhere, and there's room for it in the set, I'll include it.

Q: How much does the artwork of a particular character or creature play into the process?

It is the single most important factor. Up until recently I haven't had the budget allocated to commission new art exclusively for these sets, so if there is no illustration or a bad illustration (which could include simply weird anatomy or a pose that won't really fit on a base), that creature does not get a miniature. Unless I really, really want it to now, in which case I have a little money tucked away to order a new piece. But this has never happened to date.

Q: Are you hoping to eventually produce a line for each Adventure Path series, both past and present?

That would be really cool, but I've learned never to make long-term predictions like that. All I can say is that we will keep making these sets as long as you guys keep buying them. If we keep it up long enough, we'll have no choice BUT to make minis for all of the Adventure Paths!

But enough with the preamble. Let's get to today's minis reveals!

Here we have the Falcon. He is a falcon. The Falcon is a Small figure slated at the common rarity.

We wanted to give the Falcon some sort of companion, and thus I present here the Winter Guard Falconer. The falcon on this gentleman's arm is a little smaller than the stand-alone Falcon miniature, but it still looks great. The original illustration for this guy had him wearing snow shoes, but I decided to remove them for the miniature to increase this figure's versatility. He makes a good elite guard, ranger, or even bird-oriented player character. The Winter Guard Falconer is a Medium uncommon figure.

Pathfinder Adventure Path #69 contains tons of centaurs, but my favorite of all of them is this woman, who we call the Centaur Archer. In the campaign itself, this is a friendly wilderness guide called Erdija, but she works just as well as a generic centaur archer. WizKids did a great job on both the sculpt and painting on this figure, who is probably my favorite centaur yet produced in prepainted plastic. The Centaur Scout is a Large, rare figure.

That's it for this week's Reign of Winter previews. Our previous set, Wrath of the Righteous should start showing up in stores and in the mailboxes of subscribers very shortly, so do keep your eyes out for it!

I hope you enjoyed the Q&A at the beginning of this blog. Please feel free to post additional questions in the comments below, and I'll try to answer them either in the comments section or in a future Friday blog!

Until next week, I remain.

Erik Mona
Publisher

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Tags: Miniatures Pathfinder Battles Reign of Winter

Yay a centaur!

I'm glad I skipped that part of the reaper kickstarter now.

Have we decided to skip bow strings going forward?

Not a complaint if so, it's an easy way to avoid the orc Archer issues.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think it's going to be more of a case-by-case issue. That orc archer would have looked badass if they'd assembled it correctly.


I just wanted to say, I like the addition of animals that can serve both as potential foes, as animal companions, and as familiars. So having owls, ravens, and the like in future sets is something I recommend.

Also, anything from the summon monster spell list is a good addition as well.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm in agreement. I'll take as many animals, animal companions and summons as I can get.


It's nice to see a female centaur mini. The falconer will serve wonderfully as a ranger with an animal companion, and the stand-alone falcon is a welcomed addition. Thanks for the behind the scenes look at your process in developing the line!


Loved everything about this post: the transparency, the nod to the fans, and the minis, all of which I'd really welcome. And +1 to the demand for animals/animal companions/familiars/summons. Always useful, and versatile too.

And since we're talking about common critters that have never been done in pre-paints, let my lonely voice in the wilderness make another plug for shocker lizards. Shocker lizard, o shocker lizard, wherefore art thou, shocker lizard?


Agreed, shocker lizards would make a great common!

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

There are no shocker lizards in this set. There ARE more animals in this set. Possibly more than in all previous sets combined. Possibly.


Erik Mona wrote:
There are no shocker lizards in this set. There ARE more animals in this set. Possibly more than in all previous sets combined. Possibly.

That is GREAT news!

I have been hoping for more basic animals for a few sets now.

And since, as a GM, I'm not big on demons, I'm also glad to hear we will be seing less of them for the near future. It was puzzling to me to see there were more succubus-type minis in all sets than they were of the whole dwarf race (only 3 in all sets so far, still no female, no cleric or caster, or hammer wielding, etc...)

This is probably my favorite preview ever!
All three miniatures are 'must-have' on my want list.

The Falcon is my favorite. He can even proxy for other types of familiars/companions until we get an Owl, a Raven, etc... (maybe in this set with your promise of more animals in this set?)

The Falconer is awesome! He is perfect for a PC Ranger, or he can be a noble's personnal squire/huntsman/falconer, or an interesting NPC to guide the players to some remote locations...

And the Centaur looks very, very nice. I like the design and the details: saddlebags and all. And the paint job is beautiful.

Thank you Eric for answering all the questions and explaining to us a bit of the process.

This preview has given me hope

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Erik,
Is there a chance to see the "Baba Yaga's" eventually as maybe a single incentive of some kind or maybe as a single Promo?? This is THE mini I truly want to see produced for this line and it would be a shame to see it not made at all.

I realize the complexity would be one where it would be difficult.. but I know I would be willing to pay for it!! As a Single I know I would be willing to pay $60 for it easily!!! :)

Thanks! :)


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I'm confused about the falcon...is it a falcon or isn't it??!!

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:
I think it's going to be more of a case-by-case issue. That orc archer would have looked badass if they'd assembled it correctly

It's a very simple matter to fix, a simple cut and reglue. You can't even notice the repair and they do indeed look truly badass once they are assembled correctly.

Man I can not wait for the attic whisperer. Thank you Erik I've been waiting for these insights for some time. It's so good to see what happens behind the scenes. Three instant wins in this preview, making the set 6 for 6 so far. Although I noticed you refer to the centaur as both an Archer and a Scout? The AP includes some truly remarkable monster/NPC art so I hope the animals don't dominate the set too much, of course I think there's only been about 10 or so animals to date so matching this should be easy.

I will say I'm happy with your inclusions in the last two sets, both are suitably odd ball yet cool, any hints on what you've managed to inject into this set?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sorry to hear that The Hut won't be making an appearance, was hoping it would be the incentive model, but if it's too complex then it's too complex.

Looking at the centaur figure, why has it got girth straps, it's not likely she's going to allow anyone to ride her? If they're there to hold a pack or similar I can't help thinking it would be in a position she couldn't reach; she certainly couldn't put on/remove the straps if she were by herself.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I shouldn't have said Scout. That's a mistake that won't get fixed because hey, it's the weekend. There's also a typo in there I have to live with until Monday. :)

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Im curious as to why the falcon made the set? Make no mistake i like its inclusion, just curious as to why it made the set over other figures.

Scarab Sages

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Baba Yaga's Hut was the first stretch goal hit on Fat Dragon Games' Ravenfell kickstarter (3 weeks to go). You'd need to print and assemble the cardstock model, but I be it'll look cool.

Grand Lodge

Thanks Pigraven for playing Toto and revealing the wizard behind the curtain. ;). Many wonderful insights! They are as appreciated as the minis themselves.

The Falcon looks great. With the Fox, you have a great start for animals in the set. There is already a great option for a
Raven out there. I am surprised that Paizo is not carrying these.

The Winter Guard Falconer is needed. DDMs had the Male Elf Ranger from their Player's Handbook Heroes series. But this is very different from that one.

Yes we needed a Female Centaur. Females are so underrepresented outside the core PC races.

Another great preview. Off to plasticrypt to work on my Wrath of the Righteous in hand review. :)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The one miniature I am craving that seems to have been omitted from each set, and I was hoping it would make an appearance in Legends of Golarion, is the Red Mantis Assassin... how can we not have a figure for this?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Jareth Elirae wrote:
The one miniature I am craving that seems to have been omitted from each set, and I was hoping it would make an appearance in Legends of Golarion, is the Red Mantis Assassin... how can we not have a figure for this?

Heh, Pathfinder encounter set. Radovan, Salim, Arniset and the Count against a male and female red mantis assassin two aspis nooks, and an Aspis cleric/lich.

I'd buy it.


Keep the Iconic minis coming. IIRC WotC never did one mini for each of their iconic PCs. That was a shame. I'd like two or three Iconics per set. Having two Alain, one mounted, one standing, is awesome! Looking forward to seeing minis for Balazar, Damiel, Alahazra, and more.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Nice centaur. I would love it if there were a couple of different centaurs in the next set. I've really appreciated the effort to include a couple of variations on the same species in the same set. Provides a nice variety all at once, and it helps maintain a bit of uniformity across a species. Re: animals (and commoners and object "set pieces") - the more the better!


Mosaic wrote:
Nice centaur. I would love it if there were a couple of different centaurs in the next set. I've really appreciated the effort to include a couple of variations on the same species in the same set. Provides a nice variety all at once, and it helps maintain a bit of uniformity across a species. Re: animals (and commoners and object "set pieces") - the more the better!

Agreed. I was always surprised that DDM never figured this out; they very rarely included a themed set of minis in a single set. I'm glad Paizo is better about this.

Still would like more female monsters too, though!

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

Mazra wrote:

Thanks Pigraven for playing Toto and revealing the wizard behind the curtain. ;). Many wonderful insights! They are as appreciated as the minis themselves.

The Falcon looks great. With the Fox, you have a great start for animals in the set. There is already a great option for a
Raven out there. I am surprised that Paizo is not carrying these.

You mean this raven and these minis? We do!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Rob McCreary wrote:
You mean this raven and these minis? We do!

I have these guys, and they're great! They help scratch that animal/commoner/object itch I mentioned above. They produce the only pre-painted kid mini that I know about (except a young Boba Fett w/ pistol from the Star Wars minis); great for a pack of street brats.


The falcon will be well received. And it's even better that he is a common!

The falconer is a nice touch as well.

The female centaur is the best of the three. I'm hoping we might see another centaur in this set. Perhaps the Centaur Scout slip already indicates we are. :) This is one figure that the DDM line just couldn't get right right. the three offerings they did come up with vary in scale and style enough to kind of clash with each other. I know that won't be the case if you put more than one in this set! This biggest problem is that the Centaur Archer is a rare. It would have been nice to get a couple in a case. Still, I'm very excited about her, and can't wait to read about all the other centaurs we might be seeing soon.

Thanks, Pigraven, for asking some great questions about the Pathfinder Battles line. And even more importantly, thanks Erik, for taking the time and effort to answer them.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Glad to read about more plant creatures. I think the most common monster I'm looking for in a pre-painted mini at this point is a shambling mound.

Grand Lodge

Rob McCreary wrote:
Mazra wrote:

Thanks Pigraven for playing Toto and revealing the wizard behind the curtain. ;). Many wonderful insights! They are as appreciated as the minis themselves.

The Falcon looks great. With the Fox, you have a great start for animals in the set. There is already a great option for a
Raven out there. I am surprised that Paizo is not carrying these.

You mean this raven and these minis? We do!

I must have been looking in the wrong place. Thanks for the links.


While you're pulling back the curtain, Erik, want to tell us who at WizKids and Paizo we most owe our thanks to for putting these great lines of minis together? I like knowing whose work I'm appreciating.


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Erik Mona wrote:
Here we have the Falcon. He is a falcon.

Best. Description. Ever. I can truly see this figure representing any raptor in the genus Falco. I can finally stop using my ettin mini to represent falcons in my game!


Does licensing ever play a role in deciding what sculpts get used? For example, a lot of the monsters in Carrion Crown would be really awesome, but are used in the module with Chaosium's permission. I'd love to see a Dark Young or Dimensional Shamblers, but didn't know if getting the license again would be a deterring factor for some of the Mythos monsters of the fourth module.
Also, is this set going to have any 'modern' sculpts in it (like Russian soldiers or Tanks)?


Erik Mona wrote:
That orc archer would have looked badass if they'd assembled it correctly.

I agree with you, but I also would not mind if you just passed on future attempts to mold the bow string.

As for the post this week, I loved the insights you shared. It is nice to have a peek into the way things are done.

I am also happy with what I have seen so far. Some nice minis on the way.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, PF Special Edition Subscriber

I'm hoping for various feys, an andrazku demon, a kokogiak, winter wolf, ice / moss trolls, ice mephits, and a hydra.

Of course, some of the more unique things in Frozen Stars would be awesome as well :)

Silver Crusade

+1 to the request for Red Mantis Assassins. Additionally, after Reign of Winter I would like to see another Legends of Golarion-esque set that includes stuff like some Aspis dudes, and a handful of other PFS friendly pieces. You could blend in some stuff from Jade Regent, which would be a good excuse to toss in Reiko and Hayate, as well as some other pretty rad things like a harpy (Zaiobe) or a Yeti in the large slot. Also, having opened about a brick and a half of Wrath so far, the set has really impressed. Human faces are still an issue, poor Alain has a major case of the derp-face, but they're getting better. What bugs me is that the faces from the first few sets were really good and the recent sets have backslid a bit in the paint department, while making good progress.

TL;DR - I really like the set, but would love some Aspis.

Grand Lodge

UndeadMitch wrote:

+1 to the request for Red Mantis Assassins. Additionally, after Reign of Winter I would like to see another Legends of Golarion-esque set that includes stuff like some Aspis dudes, and a handful of other PFS friendly pieces. You could blend in some stuff from Jade Regent, which would be a good excuse to toss in Reiko and Hayate, as well as some other pretty rad things like a harpy (Zaiobe) or a Yeti in the large slot. Also, having opened about a brick and a half of Wrath so far, the set has really impressed. Human faces are still an issue, poor Alain has a major case of the derp-face, but they're getting better. What bugs me is that the faces from the first few sets were really good and the recent sets have backslid a bit in the paint department, while making good progress.

TL;DR - I really like the set, but would love some Aspis.

There are already Yeti's in the large slot and a harpy mini already. Unless you are asking for more I am pretty sure you will not see to many of them. As far as an Aspis consortium mini there is one released already... but I am not opposed to having another sculpt or two :)

Silver Crusade

Deanoth wrote:


There are already Yeti's in the large slot and a harpy mini already. Unless you are asking for more I am pretty sure you will not see to many of them. As far as an Aspis consortium mini there is one released already... but I am not opposed to having another sculpt or two :)

As far as Aspis go, there is an unpainted mini, which is something I am never going to bother with, mainly because it's a lot of work and requires buying paint and actually being able to paint. I forgot about the Yeti from Rise though, and I had been trying to forget about the Harpy, though. Man, that Harpy mini is really not very good.


UndeadMitch wrote:
+1 to the request for Red Mantis Assassins. Additionally, after Reign of Winter I would like to see another Legends of Golarion-esque set that includes stuff like some Aspis dudes, and a handful of other PFS friendly pieces. You could blend in some stuff from Jade Regent, which would be a good excuse to toss in Reiko and Hayate, as well as some other pretty rad things like a harpy (Zaiobe) or a Yeti in the large slot.

I'm with you for a second Golarion set not associated with a particular Adventure Path. Yes for a Red Mantis! Strix and gnolls. I would like to see more miniature options for PC or NPC. I'm starting a game as GM soon, and I have a lot of trouble finding minis that even come close to my Players specs. More options for dwarves are needed. Some gnome sorcerer/wizard types. More than one option for Monks. Barbarians, fighters with different weapon styles... Varisians and Ulfens, Shoanti and Keleshites, and Mwangi characters... etc.

As for Jade Regent, I would prefer a full set devoted to this Adventure Path. There is so much needed: male and female samurai, same for ninjas, Oni, oriental type dragons, tengus (!), Nagaji, Kitsunes, etc.

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