Unforgettable Villainy

Monday, November 4, 2013


Illustration by Jason Juta

There are many wonderful things about being a Game Master, but I think it's fair to say both that filling that role takes practice and that we can make some silly errors while learning. Thinking back to how I GMed before beginning Pathfinder Society Organized Play, I realize that many of the tricks I pulled on my players were downright cruel, such as heaving colonies of rust monsters at the fighter, swarming the bard with wererats until he was infected and under GM control, repeatedly giving one player an intelligent greatsword that would inevitably betray him, having a creature "adopt" the party wizard in a familiar-master bond just so I could kill the familiar and drain the character's Constitution score, and repeatedly tempting the characters to betray the other PCs for power and wealth. Yep, those were some really bad campaigns (yet everyone kept expecting me to be the GM), and I think it's telling that I can remember little of their overarching plotlines. What I can remember, though, are the villains.

In retrospect, I think one villain in particular made me understand what it meant to make an adventure about more than just looting dungeons and killing monsters. He was an orange-clad wizard with a penchant for turning into a falcon, and I initially threw him into the storyline largely for the opportunity to lob a fireball at the 4th-level PCs. The adventurers fought hard and nearly killed the poor spellcaster, but he transformed into a falcon and flew out of the tower, madly screeching incomprehensible promises to get his revenge for their interrupting his nefarious (and largely undefined) plans. A recurring villain was born, but I hardly knew it then.

The PCs shrugged, looted the tower, and went on their way to continue raiding random dungeons and getting themselves into trouble in practically every town—thanks in large part to the paladin constantly catching the chaotic "good" barbarian in the act of killing commoners. Perhaps three character levels later, the tavern they were in exploded, and like any adventuring company worth its salt, the PCs rolled initiative and chased after the mysterious culprit. Thinking their prey cornered in an alleyway, they were surprised to find the dead end empty save for a sealed letter and that wizard standing on top of a building laughing maniacally. "That letter contains the name of the next village I shall burn to the ground," he chortled. "See if you can reach it before I do!" He then shapechanged and flew out of sight, leaving the paladin fuming and the barbarian ambivalent. After reading the message and triggering its explosive runes the barbarian was also thoroughly interested in squashing the spellcaster.

That wizard repeated this at three villages in a row, each time leaving behind a charred husk of a town, a few minions to gnaw on the PCs, and a booby-trapped letter saying where he would strike next. They eventually cornered him in a climatic fight, killed him, and threw his body into a volcano. Unfortunately, the GM had recently read the description for true resurrection, brought back the wizard with new allies, and convinced the aforementioned barbarian to betray the party in return for an unnamed boon. After defeating all but the barbarian, that wizard knocked out the traitor, polymorphed the entire party into rats, and sent them through a trap-filled maze after giving a classic villainous monologue. The story goes on and on, but suffice it to say that this was our recurring villain from levels 4 to 24, and for years afterward, mentioning his name to any of that gaming group would cause them to scowl, grind their teeth, and hoarsely growl "I hate that guy!"

Nearly a decade later when I started playing Pathfinder Society, I found the lack of recurring villains somewhat comforting; by the end of each scenario, the PCs were victorious and had no loose ends to tie up. That was the case, at least, until I played a noteworthy, multi-scenario arc that ended in our perceived failure, for despite our "winning" the scenario, the villains succeeded at their scheme and left behind an insulting letter to add insult to injury. At first I found myself thinking, "What? No way! This can't be right!" A little later that evolved to, "What more could we have done to prevent this," and later still, "Oh, I can't wait to find those guys in the future." I found myself actually enjoying that we didn't have a clean victory because it really made me look forward to encountering those villains again in the future. In a way, I had encountered exactly what I had used against my players years before.


Illustration by Dean Spencer

Now that I've cornered you and given you the "let me tell you about my character" spiel, let me share why I subjected you to my rambling stories. When I first started working for Paizo, my mind was swimming with different villains who had tormented the Pathfinders in the past and might one day make a second appearance. Already there are several familiar faces set to show up again in the coming months, and I'm always happy to read about players' memorable experiences with the Big Bad Evil Guy from Scenario #X–YZ. It means the villain connected with the player base and helped to pull participants deeper into the story. It means that I can learn from what went particularly well with that NPC, and it also means that—story permitting—we might see that character again for a rematch.

USING SPOILERS that include the scenario's name so as not to ruin the surprise for someone else, which villains in Pathfinder Society Organized Play have been your favorites? What about the villain really pushed your buttons? Who would you like the chance to meet again?

John Compton
Developer

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Tags: Dean Spencer Jason Juta Pathfinder Society
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The Exchange 4/5 5/5

John Compton wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Ok, I've played this once, and run it 5 times. And I have no idea who this person you are talking about is.
I believe the scenario in question is actually First Steps, Part 3: A Vision of Betrayal.

Yes, dang it. The perils of typing on your smartphone.

3/5

Drogon wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Hehehe, I've had a lot less experience with that guy, only Escape From Old Korvosa and The Moonscar of that list. I've only read Moonscar, albeit thoroughly as I'm GMing it right now, and I'll say that The Moonscar is either half-finished or it's an AP-book-length concept crammed into a 32-page module (or both?), so I can't really say anything about the author himself.

-Matt

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Mattastrophic wrote:
I've read through everything on that list except The Secrets Stones Keep...

If that means you haven't played it, then I really want to do a Roll20 of it for you. Great scenario.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Mmph. Moonscar is high level. All high level modules are unfinished, seeing as the stat blocks consume so much room.

Read Skinsaw Murders and Sixfold Trial. Both are brilliant examples of a brilliant author.

Although The Sixfold Trial makes me remember another option: Nicolas Logue. More amazing characterization of characters you love to hate cannot be found, perhaps.

3/5

Drogon wrote:
Mmph. Moonscar is high level. All high level modules are unfinished, seeing as the stat blocks consume so much room.

On the other hand, there'd be a lot more room if the author/developer didn't try to cram so many statblocks into them. But that's another topic.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I really want to do a Roll20 of it for you. Great scenario.

Excellent. My work schedule isn't very conducive right now to playing PFS locally, so I am definitely open to online options.

-Matt

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Mattastrophic wrote:

Excellent. My work schedule isn't very conducive right now to playing PFS locally, so I am definitely open to online options.

-Matt

I have some friends in Ohio that can usually play on Sunday evenings. I'll have my people call your people and set something up. :)

5/5 *

golemworks incident:

Chrysalis Black for me as well. This guy was soooo creepy, and I love GMing him all the time. One of the few scenarios I will volunteer to GM every. single. time.

Scarab Sages 4/5

CRobledo wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

I agree that is a great villain and scenario

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think (among my experienced players)

The Devil You Know

Spoiler:
the unresolved issue coming out of The Devil You Know's finale and the escape of the Aspis agents sticks in their craw.

Other Villians they liked/loved to hate:

Spoiler:

The Spyder.. a lot of folks were peeved that she was killed out of hand.
Torch: Oh yeah.. Crispy will get his. Kyrie (my ex-SL'er) LITERALLY has a bullet with his name on it)
Tancred Desmire: I know that there are SEVERAL Players who would love to kill him after finding evidence of his plots. Meeting him the one time.. Kyrie wanted to shoot him. Afterwards..she wished she had

The problem with reoccuring villians is that they have to live to reoccur. A lot of 'murder' hobos don't leave anyone standing at the end of a scenario.

One thing I should be pointed out. John has been at this less than a full year or so right? He's got literally HUNDREDS of plot threads from past seasons AS WELL as the current AND FUTURE season threads to think through. So while I would LOVE some revenge on past season 2 villians.. I understand he is only one guy and things like sleep, food and other issues come up. :D

Liberty's Edge 4/5

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Off the top of my head I can't think of many villians that lived more than a round, so I never really got to know them. Mostly they are pitiable rather than devious or cruel. Checking back over a couple dozen chronicle sheets, I can't even remember the villians. Those few that escaped didn't remember the chracters that foiled their plans (i.e. no mention in the chronicle sheet nor in character tactics of prior appearances).

Allies are a bit more memorable in that some of their incompetencies are more villainous than the most depraved demon. Errors of omission, misdirections, well meaning aid to the enemy all come to mind. "Mists of Mwangi", Nigel Aldain's various requests for help, to name a couple.

One villian that I remember, in the "Mostly Harmless" category, is Ekie. I wouldn't mind seeing her in a few cameo appearances, with her "brother".

4/5

Matthew Trent wrote:

Not to be a negative Nancy, but I couldn't help but groan with the realization that I'm going to be missing even more of whats going on not having played many of these scenarios.

Also, can someone add spoilers to the good VC from Washington's post.

Even if you haven't run across a villain before, the fact that the character has a.) already been fleshed out and b.) has been popular enough to get revived means they are very likely to be something special. The authors have a proven concept to work with, that's a great head start.

The Exchange

Lal Chawda

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Graham wrote:
The problem with reoccuring villians is that they have to live to reoccur. A lot of 'murder' hobos don't leave anyone standing at the end of a scenario.

This is a world with raise dead. People don't necessarily need to survive to keep on living. Hell, there's one villain in there whose continuity probably actually involves a raise dead.

Spoiler:
I can't imagine that most people left the Spider alive at the end of Shadow's Last Stand II. There was probably a raise dead involved between Season 2 and Season 4.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

It befuddles me that so many people love Mists of Mwangi. I'd say 40% of people who play it can have a very, very bad day of it and if they do, it could go very poorly for the group and all that in the first 5 minutes.

That said:

Rivalry's End:
I have never seen a character so reviled as GM Torch is now. I ran this once and played in it once, doing the former first, so the latter it was not much a surprise and most of the players were very new so they didn't care about the betrayal. The group I ran for, however, had done a few missions for him in the past and the betrayal went very, very poorly for them. They want revenge...bad. It has also led to them being very distrustful of all Venture-Captains. When Amara Li came to them about a pair of books, they practically chewed her out over it.

Song of the Sea Witch:
A character that is completely underused. Played it once, ran it twice, and each time it has been very different. I LOVE the Sea Witch and I think he could be used as a great potential informant or open betrayal to the society (Though I suspect most group kill him)

Wardstone Patrol:
Other people have mentioned the brimorak, Savash, is more of a letdown, as most groups I have seen obliterate him. I have run this 6 times and played in it, as well, and only one group struggled with him and that was bad luck on dice rolls more than anything (evasion character failing two reflex saves and going down to fireball/firebreath). The gem in this scenario is Sir Ilivan. I adore him and having run the scenario so much, he has come alive in my head. He is such a great character, that actually has some depth and if you have a Sczarni in the party, you can get some really great added depth (provided they can pass some skill checks), it is also nice to see some PTSD in a RPG.

Not a villain, but a character I want more of and I know that I will get it as the season progresses: Jorsal of Lauterbury. In my head, he has become such a fantastic continuation of Juba from Gladiator. A man with a purpose that is not what you would expect, with a past you no doubt will never fully comprehend, but who is so devoted to his task...I love him.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment:
Dakang has another sermon of heresy to give! Best NPC in PFS play!

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There is matriarch of a certain family whose stronghold required the strongest purification by fire - my cleric even salted the earth afterwards - the incident brought us together as a party ... Nick Logue really got us with this one.

By the time we had finished with them a shower was going to be need to wash away just how disturbing the experience was. A definite sense of satisfaction when finally we got through it. (I have yet to read how much was our GM and how much was Nick, but I suspect it's a fair bit of both (having played more of his work).

Those that have played it will know, for the rest...

any Creepy Soulbound Doll....

Oh... The Cult in Cult of the Ebon Destroyers... take your pick there... there are any number of bad guy's that will make an impression.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I will repeat what I said the last time this was brought up

There are 2 NPCs that always seem to get players in trouble and I think they are secretly villains!!

Yargos Gill & Nigel Aldain!


Wow cool thread! My names all over this one. As a note, I did propose to the powers that be at the time to write another Devil we Know talking about the two in question and their comeuppance. I loved writing most of my villains, but here are my top 5, in order that I wrote:

Spoiler:
1) Chrysalis Black, ( I even have an idea for a sequel hint hint. 2) Tancred Desimire (not my original villain idea but fun to write) (and Algorn his brother) I hope I hear from John when it concerns more from this vile villain! 3) Vaga Underbough, I had a hard time sleeping after I wrote her. 4) Nefti and Kafar, so much that I left a huge hook to revisit them. 5) What ever lies beyond Fiendsmaw at Rachikan! Final note: the guy in First steps part three I wrote him to betray the PCs, but it was changed in development, so he was intended to be bad.

I was feeling pretty good about this thread until I read what Mattastrophic had to say :)
Seriously though Matt please contact me personally and let me know about my shortfalls. I always strive to improve and if I can knock those statblocks out better and create better combats, I'd love to hear about it. Maybe this info can get me to the big leagues of adventure path writing.
In all sincerity to become a better writer my e mail is:
Spoiler:
larcifer (at) hotmail (dot) com

Larry Wilhelm
PS I heart Drogon

Shadow Lodge 4/5

John McConnell, you are absolutely right!

Dragonmoon, I agree that Yargos is a great villain, though I'm not sure if he needs to know that he is or not.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Rivalry's End:
Its funny, I still don't see Grandmaster Torch as a villain. After the events of this scenario I see him returning to his previously antagonistic relationship with the Society, making him somebody that the Society must work with even though they would rather see him eliminated.

At least that is how I reconcile scenarios in which he appears after PCs have played Rivalry's End.

4/5

John Compton wrote:


Your concern is one of the reasons that there's a developer for these scenarios. Without a developer, you're right that the voice of a particular character can distort and migrate over time. This is particularly true when we have lots of exposure to a particular character, such as the esteemed Paracountess. Over the life of the campaign, there have been five different people managing those voices,

To be honest, I would be less concerned about the 5 developer's resulting in drift of 'voice' than I would about the approximately 27,000 GMs portraying that same NPC. I have no doubt that were any 5 GMs to run the same exact scene involving the same exact NPC (the Paracountess makes a good example), the results would be totally different. Even sticking to the box text 100% word-for-word (and how often does that happen?) differences in the GM's tone, gestures, facial expressions, etc will leave the PCs with different views of the NPC.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that- I'm just saying that NPCs are much more likely to 'drift' at the table than they are in the pdf.

That being said, sorry I can't contribute a favorite villain- I haven't run into enough of them yet.
But just for good measure, GM Torch. Because, Torch.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

John McConnell wrote:
Temple of Empyreal Enlightenment

I like this guy as well. I think he may be influencing the Society already. I have seen half a dozen Barbarians saying they worship a deity and getting the tenants all wrong. The worst was the barbarian that played the Temple and said "Hey wait. I follow Korada." That barbarian found the temple very welcoming.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Kind of off topic, but funny.

Golemworks:

Spoiler:
I had a fairly new player at the table, playing Seelah. So I decided to get him involved by making him the target of Black's obsession. Kept asking questions like if she (seelah) moisturized, how much time she spent in the sun, etc. Finally he's getting creeped out and looks at his sheet again. "This is because I'm black, isn't it?"

Table busted out laughing. (for the record, player was a white guy.)

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Samish Lakefinder wrote:
I have seen half a dozen Barbarians saying they worship a deity and getting the tenants all wrong.

Wait, their diety is a landlord that requires his/her worshipers to memorize the residents of the buildings that he/she owns?

Sczarni 4/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I'd like to chime in and add my support for

Night March of Kalkamedes:
Koth Vaul
as a recurring villain. I think he ties in *very* nicely to the current season!


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

So many villains to choose from, but my favorite in terms of having a good/believable back-story and motivation would be:

Season 4-17 Tower of the Ironwood Watch:
Inexora Vexidyre was a great villain, her reason for being in the tower and the motivation which drove her were both believable and worked in the context of the scenario. she was suitably "villainous/unpleasant" and had plenty of options to keep the players on their toes - they really enjoyed this scenario and found the "big bad" a real challenge - an easy one to resurrect or recur in the context of Season 5 me thinks!.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Quote:

I will repeat what I said the last time this was brought up

There are 2 NPCs that always seem to get players in trouble and I think they are secretly villains!!

Yargos Gill & Nigel Aldain!

This!

Every time I read Nigel's name my players drop their heads in disgust. And I want to thank whoever decided to add his picture in season 4. It has earned a place over the dart board.

Silver Crusade 3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well

Spoiler:
No Plunder No Pay

actually has a "if you leave this villain alive then..." in the Chronicle sheet. It might be interesting to see something come of it after all these years.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

MYTHIC TOZ wrote:
Krune delivers.

...the pain.

Spoiler:
I'd love to see Kafar get his comeuppance. Nefti has to die, too, but he needs to get gruesomely devoured by some horrible monster as Pathfinder PCs look on, unable to come to his aid. Nobody makes me see red like Tancred, though.

4/5

WEASEL!!!!!

3/5

The PC goblins from We be goblins!

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Leathern, there are two people on that scenario that could come back to haunt us.

No Plunder No Pay:

Both the pirate captain we "save" (for trial in Egorian), and the Elven captain whose ship we steal.

Bad Pathfinders.

Bad Bad Bad.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
David Shaw wrote:
WEASEL!!!!!

Seconded.

5/5

Leathert wrote:

Well

** spoiler omitted **

actually has a "if you leave this villain alive then..." in the Chronicle sheet. It might be interesting to see something come of it after all these years.

It would be cool to see this used, especially with the circumstances that have recently come up.

Spoiler:
0-14: The Many Fortunes of Grand Master Torch

There is a line on the chronicle sheet that states:

"You owe Grandmaster Torch a favor—one he plans to redeem in the future. When he calls in this favor, you are obligated to fulfill his request so long as it doesn't violate any morale restrictions of your race, class, or alignment."

And to tie into that...

Spoiler:
2-26: The Mantis's Prey

The Check boxes regarding Irskin Jayorass. It would be interesting to see where he went and what he is doing. Is he helping Torch out or is he helping the society? If he is helping the society, is he close to Torch where the society can use him as leverage?

What about this?

Spoiler:
3-10: The Immortal Conundrum

All the different guests at the dinner party? Would be interesting to see some of them again. We've already seen Desimire once after the party.

Another good idea, though it might take a bit to see this come to fruition

Spoiler:
3-17: Red Harvest

Depending on who the Pathfinder Society sided with, would cause the other side to be upset and try to cause problems in the future.

5/5

Tamago wrote:
I'd like to chime in and add my support for ** spoiler omitted ** as a recurring villain. I think he ties in *very* nicely to the current season!

I second this as well. It would be cool to see him come back, though it's gotta be pretty cool! With a ending like that, anything less would be a letdown ;)

1/5

You all are forgetting the worst villain, the one who has sent untold pathfinders to their deaths on simple tasks with her distinctive breathy voice

I hate her so much

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Lamontius wrote:

You all are forgetting the worst villain, the one who has sent untold pathfinders to their deaths on simple tasks with her distinctive breathy voice

I hate her so much

Let's leave Lisa Stevens out of this. :-)

Grand Lodge 4/5

Lamontius wrote:

You all are forgetting the worst villain, the one who has sent untold pathfinders to their deaths on simple tasks with her distinctive breathy voice

I hate her so much

Yeah, can anyone explain why we (the Pathfinder Society) decided to rescue her when she got erased from existence?

2/5

Here are a few of my favorite villains. Some I experienced as a player, others I enjoyed running as a GM.

Severing Ties:

Vidrin Jenk - though not really much of a threat to the PCs I thought his story was fascinating. With his history of failure and then being set up to fail spectacularly in a task that should have been easy, he makes for a tragic figure that one can almost feel bad for, if he wasn't a slimy Aspis agent making deals with an evil cult. Now that he has a personal reason to hate the Society, and is likely desperate, I hope he makes a reappearance at some point to exact revenge.

The Blakros Matrimony:

I played this great scenario in a PbP with an excellent GM that really took the time to roleplay the NPCs. (Thanks Dien)
Tancred Desimire - Fashionably late, rude, and suspicious, he was a mysterious element in a complex scenario and I think he has the makings of being an excellent nemesis.
Arastrax - I am not sure how much is detailed in the scenario, but our GM really gave this creature personality. His entrance was very memorable during a fight that started at crazy and progressed to crazygonutz. He was brimming with such over the top evil and displaying so much power that we never expected his exit from the scene. I suspect Arastrax has already returned, but I hope his story is not over yet and he has a long career as a villain.

Before the Dawn Part II - Rescue at Azlant Ridge:

Calgredine - I ran this as a GM and thoroughly enjoyed pitting this Aspis thug against the PCs. He made a strong impression when he nearly killed a PC in the first encounter, and only escaped after bargaining with the unconscious character's life. This made his arrival at the dig site even more memorable. The PCs chose to ally with him and his mercenaries, which led to a much more interesting final battle. I think he has a lot of potential, particularly since his history was left a little vague in the scenario. I think he could turn up almost anywhere, though next time he really needs to buy himself a trained combat mount.

There is one more who is probably responsible for more Pathfinder deaths and disappearances than all the others, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned him. Aram Zey. He is notorious for sending Pathfinders on dangerous missions without all the necessary information. He comes across as an impatient man who gives the impression that talking to rank and file Pathfinders is a waste of his valuable time, but I secretly think that he's trying to thin the ranks.

4/5

By far the villain I've enjoyed the most and would look forward to seeing again is...

Blakros Matrimony, The Disappeared, Fortress of the Nail, Day of the Demon:
Tancred Desimire, of course! He's a charismatic villain, his presence reaches from the end of season 3 (via his brother Aglorn) to season 5 (since Day of the Demon will be made public in that season, being 4-EX). Everything in that last scenario tells us we're going to see him again, and that day, I will be there to oppose him!

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

1 person marked this as a favorite.
kinevon wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

You all are forgetting the worst villain, the one who has sent untold pathfinders to their deaths on simple tasks with her distinctive breathy voice

I hate her so much

Yeah, can anyone explain why we (the Pathfinder Society) decided to rescue her when she got erased from existence?

I think he was talking about Sheila Heidmarch. She is, perhaps, the most botched introduction of a leadership figure I've ever seen.

I know this thread is about cool villains and how they may recur, but I would like to sneak in a request to Mike/John: write the personalities of our "bosses" in such a way that we can actually like and respect them, please. What I have seen said of Jorsall of Lauderbury is promising, but Sheila very quickly became a hated figure, and I'd rather not have to deal with that as a GM (players get snotty and use briefings as a chance to be sarcastic asshats instead of actually paying attention). Yes, it is "fun" to hate Drandle Dreng, but he is the exception to the rule. Everyone else is simply hated.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Drogon wrote:
I know this thread is about cool villains and how they may recur, but I would like to sneak in a request to Mike/John: write the personalities of our "bosses" in such a way that we can actually like and respect them, please. What I have seen said of Jorsall of Lauderbury is promising, but Sheila very quickly became a hated figure, and I'd rather not have to deal with that as a GM (players get snotty and use briefings as a chance to be sarcastic asshats instead of actually paying attention). Yes, it is "fun" to hate Drandle Dreng, but he is the exception to the rule. Everyone else is simply hated.

??? I have to say as far as I am aware none of my local players hate/dislike Sheila Heidmarch. Wasn't she first introduced in Murder on the Throaty Mermaid?

People generally dislike Aram Zey (and many local players actively hate both him and Amara Li after being 'hung out to dry' in Fabric of Reality) but that is the way he is written.

Are you saying that in your area every VC is hated?

Sovereign Court

Race for the Runecarved Key

Spoiler:
Sheila Heidmarch ... seriously, the things she had us doing on that scenario had a couple folks change factions and join the Shadow Lodge. She was out to get us killed!!! ;)

On the serious end ...

Golem Works

Spoiler:
Chrysalis Black is a classic ... very twisted and well delivered.

Night March

Spoiler:
Koth Vaul ... big baddie is an understatement ... so much potential wasted with containment magic. He needs to come back for some payback. ;)

Cyphermage Dilemma

Spoiler:
Alejia Netrav ... a villain who threatens to off her hostage but can be bargained with (the folks I ran through this all let her go and when I initially played this one we let her go as well) ... and she is vishkanya which has all sorts of venomous potential ; )

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I find that few VCs are liked in any measure. Aram Zey is a jerk, Drang is Professor Farnsworth in disguise, Sheila is something I can't type here, and the list goes on and on.

I think Sir Jorsal is the most likable one we've had so far.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Grandmaster Torch.

I want to stick a knife in his kidneys all nice and slow like while savoring each whimper and scream.

For real though...F that dude....

Scarab Sages 1/5

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Nice thread & intro!

Day of the Demon: I only played this one.

Spoiler:

I was suspicious of the girl's true nature throughout the scenario, cast detection spells on her (obscured), role played interactions of distrust with her. It was memorable when she revealed in the final fight.

Sovereign Court

Michael Eshleman wrote:
Drogon wrote:
I know this thread is about cool villains and how they may recur, but I would like to sneak in a request to Mike/John: write the personalities of our "bosses" in such a way that we can actually like and respect them, please. What I have seen said of Jorsall of Lauderbury is promising, but Sheila very quickly became a hated figure, and I'd rather not have to deal with that as a GM (players get snotty and use briefings as a chance to be sarcastic asshats instead of actually paying attention). Yes, it is "fun" to hate Drandle Dreng, but he is the exception to the rule. Everyone else is simply hated.

??? I have to say as far as I am aware none of my local players hate/dislike Sheila Heidmarch. Wasn't she first introduced in Murder on the Throaty Mermaid?

People generally dislike Aram Zey (and many local players actively hate both him and Amara Li after being 'hung out to dry' in Fabric of Reality) but that is the way he is written.

Are you saying that in your area every VC is hated?

I understand what he's saying.

Sheila Heidmarch is not well loved (more like well hated) by a good number of our local lodge.

Aram Zey is certainly easy to have a negative inclination towards, but I view him in the same way I view Drendle Dreng. He was written to fill that niche. Aram is obnoxious and arrogant, Drendle is more like the absent minded professor. Both can be irritating, but honestly, I like DD. My PCs have all viewed him as an elder uncle with a bad memory. By the same token, all of my PCs who have met AZ consider him to be a pompous ass who, if it were not for his ability to teleport us where were needed to go, should have gotten tromped by any number of Pathfinders over the years.

The Paracountess is either "loved" ("lusted"?) or hated with a passion (yes, puns are all intended).

And I found the good and now departed Baron to be rather annoying with some of his faction missions. My PCs were not his interior designers, party planners or what have you! I much prefer Lady Gloriana Morilla, though the Baron's death did make for a truly memorable scenario, especially if you were playing a Taldor PC.

All that said, I really don't have a problem with disliked "bosses". They can be a unifying force for the players. As to players deciding to be asshats during the intro and miss info they will be needing, such is the price for being an asshat. Or to put it another way, I have not liked all my RL bosses over the years, but I still paid attention to what they wanted and did what was needed. To do otherwise would have had negative consequences better avoided.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

I've only played or Gm'ed a couple dozen scenarios, but I'll add my 2 cents (or coppers, for in-game currency).

Night March:
When one PC who was a 1/2 orc inquisitor tried to intimidate Koth'Vaul (thinking he was a gnome) and was acutally intimidated himself I nearly cried laughing! When the sceanrio specifically states how he remembers the PC's clearly, he's GOT to come back for revenge!

In general, I'd really like to see a VC pull a face-heel turn and become a BBEG. Maybe this happens already in Eyse of the Ten? If so, it's not necessary again.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Oh, it has CERTAINLY happened before...

4/5 *

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When I first met Sheila Heidmarch, I checked to see if she was wearing an Aspis badge und her wayfinder. Between her and the various self-interested faction heads, many of my characters wonder what has become of the Society since its glory days a few centuries back. With the current season's plot, I won't be surprised to find out that some of the various NPCs on our side have actually been sleeper agents under dmeonic possession...

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