Advanced Class Guide

Wednesday, August 28, 2013

Just a few weeks ago, we announced the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide, an exciting new addition to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game due out next summer. While we talked about it a fair bit at Gencon, this blog post is here to get you caught up on all the news!

This 256-page rulebook will contain 10 new classes, each a mix of two existing classes, taking a bit from each class and adding new mechanics to give you a unique character. Around the office we're calling them "hybrid classes." You can think of the magus (from Ultimate Magic) as our first test of this concept. It takes some rules from the fighter, some rules from the wizard, and then adds its own unique mechanics.

At this point, you're probably wondering what new classes you can expect to see in the Advanced Class Guide. So far, we've announced five of the ten classes.

Bloodrager: This blend of sorcerer and barbarian can call upon the power of his blood whenever he goes into a rage. He also has a limited selection of spells he can call upon, even when in a mindless fury!

Hunter: Taking powers from both the druid and the ranger, the hunter is never without her trusted animal companion, hunting down foes with lethal accuracy.

Shaman: Calling upon the spirits to aid her, the shaman draws upon class features of the oracle and the witch. Each day, she can commune with different spirits to aid her and her allies.

Slayer: Look at all the blood! The slayer blends the rogue and the ranger to create a character that is all about taking down particular targets.

Warpriest: Most religions have martial traditions, and warpriests are often the backbones of such orders. This mix of cleric and fighter can call upon the blessings of the gods to defeat enemies of their faiths.

Of course, those are just half the classes in this book. There are four more we have yet to reveal.

"Four?" you say. "But I thought there were ten!" And you would be right—because I'm about to let you in on another of the classes that will appear in this book, which we haven't announced until this moment!

Swashbuckler: Break out your rapier and your wit! The swashbuckler uses panache and daring to get the job done, blending the powers of the fighter and the gunslinger! For those of you who don't use guns in your campaign, fear not—the base class is not proficient in firearms (although there will certainly be an archetype in the book that fix that).

But that's not all! This book will also contain archetypes for all 10 new classes, as well as a selection to help existing classes play with some of the new features in this book. There will also be feats and spells to support these new classes, as well as magic items that will undoubtedly become favorites for nearly any character. Last but not least, the final chapter in this book will give you a peek inside the design process for classes and archetypes, giving you plenty of tips and guides to build your own! Since class design is more art than science, this won't be a system (like in the Advanced Race Guide), but rather a chapter giving you advice on how the process works.

So, there you go. That's six of the 10 classes that will appear in the Advanced Class Guide and an overview of what else you can expect from this exciting new book. While it's due to release next August, you won't have to wait too long to get your hands on these classes, because we're planning to do a public playtest here this fall! Check back here for more news as the playtest draws close!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:

Also, am less thrilled because I hate points-based mechanics like grit, and it's obvious from the swashbuckler description more things like that are going to be used. d20 is fiddly and complex enough without having to track pools.

Seems like this is a just the way pathfinder is going. I am pretty sure all of paizo's original classes have something of the sort to track. I think it SHOULD be where the game moves also. For too long we have had this stupid conflict where casters have a limited set of resources, but cooler stuff, martials (specifically rogue and fighter) have unlimited resources but less cool stuff. The problem with that is it doesnt actually balance out. If the casters run out of resources, the party has dead weight lying around and players are basically not participating. If casters DONT run out of resources, then the 'unlimited' resources of martials are meaningless.

Giving everyone points or pools or rounds, or challenges or smites, or bombs to be able to do cool stuff on a per day basis brings everyone into the same game-space.

Liberty's Edge

I love the idea of Swashbuckler being a Fighter/Gunslinger Hybrid. So much so that it was one of the ideas bandied about in my group before these ten were even announced.


Call it a musketeer?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ikarinokami wrote:
We need a...wizard/sorcerer hybrid.

*salivates*

Liberty's Edge

I'd like to see a fighter/caster hybrid whose weapons strike at one size increment smaller than they actually are and effective caster level is two less than the hybrid level.

A lot of people say what they would like to see, but not why they would like to see the class. Is it for the RP possibilities that would be openned up?

Going through the comments, people who play a lot are looking forward to the ACG, people who GM a lot are far more muted in their endorsement. I expect the final product will mostly have interesting and balanced classes that few people will play and 2 or 3 OP combos that people will minmax to blast through encounters. Historically, each book has followed this formula.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wait...

Jason wrote:
Swashbuckler: Break out your rapier and your wit! The swashbuckler uses panache and daring to get the job done, blending the powers of the fighter and the gunslinger! For those of you who don't use guns in your campaign, fear not—the base class is not proficient in firearms (although there will certainly be an archetype in the book that fix that).

If using guns isn't part of the base idea, will their melee attacks be touch attacks instead of guns?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
graywulfe wrote:
I love the idea of Swashbuckler being a Fighter/Gunslinger Hybrid. So much so that it was one of the ideas bandied about in my group before these ten were even announced.

I've even created a homebrew version of this. Its actually a good fit. The whole idea of 'daring acts' and 'impressive deeds' really suits the swashbuckler concept. I am interested to see what they come up with, and I know i'll at least be dropping a few into my campain even if I dont have the opportunity to play one myself during the playtest.


10 people marked this as a favorite.

I want a class that is swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire and, of course, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dustin Ashe wrote:
I want a class that is swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire and, of course, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

Be a man!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Dustin Ashe wrote:
I want a class that is swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire and, of course, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

Somehow, I'll make a man out of you.

Grand Lodge

^ Most epic song ever!!!


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Jiggy wrote:
Dustin Ashe wrote:
I want a class that is swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire and, of course, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
Somehow, I'll make a man out of you.

In just seven days?

Grand Lodge

DeathQuaker wrote:

Yeah, having things sharing the name with existing archetypes or prestige classes will get really confusing. Especially if someone, for example, decides they want to build a rogue (swashbuckler)/swashbuckler multiclass.

I think buccaneer is also an archetype however (gunslinger racial one, IIRC).

To my knowledge, what might work (depending on exact flavor) could include

Daredevil, maverick, freebooter, corsair, fencer, swordsman

All good suggestions.


Kryzbyn wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Dustin Ashe wrote:
I want a class that is swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire and, of course, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
Somehow, I'll make a man out of you.
In just seven days?

you are all fantastic people


Kryzbyn wrote:

Wait...

Jason wrote:
Swashbuckler: Break out your rapier and your wit! The swashbuckler uses panache and daring to get the job done, blending the powers of the fighter and the gunslinger! For those of you who don't use guns in your campaign, fear not—the base class is not proficient in firearms (although there will certainly be an archetype in the book that fix that).
If using guns isn't part of the base idea, will their melee attacks be touch attacks instead of guns?

I'm hoping it has Gunslinger-y abilities applied to Crossbows.

But that'll probably never happen.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I keep waiting for the SGG guys to point out that they already did the gunslinger-variant swashbuckler...

Dark Archive

Just finished looking at sorcerer bloodlines with actual interest and exvitment for the first time since the APG came out. I am currentlythinking I would like to try the boreal, elemental or destined bloodlines with a reach weapon, maybe with spring attack. That might make full attacks tougher to get though. But also easier to avoid enermy full attacks.

Cannot wait to see the play tests. I just hope the 2 or 3 I really want to see do not come out last. I recall the APG let out 2 at a time. I am hoping for something like at least one caster and non caster per release. Gives me more of a chance to focus on the casters since I have little interest in mundanes, I mean martials. Funnybi say that ad I expe t both bloodrager and warpriest to be full bab though even only a little casting sets them above total noncasting in my book. Never was satisfied with the super rate of pal/ran spell progression but I am hoping that making the jump to arcane spells plus new abilities does the trick for BR. It would be funny if the warpriest was a 9 spell level touch attackspecialist.

And please throw me some Summoner/synthesist love. I would be happy to take a power step down to try weaker versions that were better written than the monstrosity of contradictions and required F.A.Q.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think that anything beyond three classes is bloat! Because I hate change! Bring out the Warrior, Expert, and Spellcaster! Anything beyond that is superfluous! ;)

I kid, I kid. :D

Digital Products Assistant

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed some posts. Edition warring is not OK on paizo.com.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I know where you got those three from! High five:)

Silver Crusade

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed some posts. Edition warring is not OK on paizo.com.

Thank you thank you thank you.

***

On topic. Really interested in the Bloodrager and the Shaman. Curious how the Warpriest will work mechanically (assuming it fills the "non-LG Paladin" niche).

I tried to game out other possible class combinations, but there are something like 140 possible combos remaining. And since two of the announced 6 are Fighter/X combos I couldn't use a "no repeats" principle to cut it down. Might do that anyway just for fun guessing. So what might be good rules of the guessing game?

(1) No same-class hybrids (duh). Wizard-wizard ain't happening.

(2) None that have already been announced. We aren't getting two Barbarian/Sorcerers.

(3) Risky Assumption: no more repeats. We have one Barbarian hybrid, we probably won't see two.

(4) Risky Assumption: no hybrids of too-close classes. No Sorcerer-Wizard (what would that even look like?). (This assumption is risky because we already have a Druid/Ranger announced, when I would've thought the Ranger is already exactly what Jason describes for the Hunter.)

(5) No Magus hybrids. Because it's already a hybrid.

(6) No Samurai or Ninja hybrids. (Since we're not going to see a Samurai/Cavalier, the Cavalier and Rogue combos will approximate what we do get anyway.)

Any other rules? What classes are too close to each other so you think we won't see them?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How are they going to do the Shaman that is Oracle and Witch?
I mean on one half you got a Divine Spontaneous Spellcaster and a Arcane Spellbook Spellcaster. I hope they will go for mish/mash of the two.

Like you have your familiar that acts the spells you have access to, but you can cast them in a spontaneous way.

Or perhaps like how Kobold Press did their version of the Shaman in that

Quote:
unlike a druid or cleric, a shaman need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet cast all spells per day for that spell level. Shamans need no divine focus to cast spells, even for ones with divine focus (DF) listed as a component.


I definitely want to see more about the Shaman, followed by the Slayer and Blood Rager.

Is there an eta on the Playtest?


Joe M. wrote:
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed some posts. Edition warring is not OK on paizo.com.

Thank you thank you thank you.

***

On topic. Really interested in the Bloodrager and the Shaman. Curious how the Warpriest will work mechanically (assuming it fills the "non-LG Paladin" niche).

I tried to game out other possible class combinations, but there are something like 140 possible combos remaining. And since two of the announced 6 are Fighter/X combos I couldn't use a "no repeats" principle to cut it down. Might do that anyway just for fun guessing. So what might be good rules of the guessing game?

(1) No same-class hybrids (duh). Wizard-wizard ain't happening.

(2) None that have already been announced. We aren't getting two Barbarian/Sorcerers.

(3) Risky Assumption: no more repeats. We have one Barbarian hybrid, we probably won't see two.

(4) Risky Assumption: no hybrids of too-close classes. No Sorcerer-Wizard (what would that even look like?). (This assumption is risky because we already have a Druid/Ranger announced, when I would've thought the Ranger is already exactly what Jason describes for the Hunter.)

(5) No Magus hybrids. Because it's already a hybrid.

(6) No Samurai or Ninja hybrids. (Since we're not going to see a Samurai/Cavalier, the Cavalier and Rogue combos will approximate what we do get anyway.)

Any other rules? What classes are too close to each other so you think we won't see them?

Number 3 is right out the window, though. The Warpriest and Swashbuckler both use fighters as the base. And the Slayer and Hunter use rangers.

Grand Lodge

Tactical Monkey wrote:

How are they going to do the Shaman that is Oracle and Witch?

I mean on one half you got a Divine Spontaneous Spellcaster and a Arcane Spellbook Spellcaster. I hope they will go for mish/mash of the two.

Perhaps something completely different, maybe they only cast up to 6th level spells but have two spell-casting charts. One for the oracle, charisma based and divine. The other from the witch, intelligence based and arcane. Making them a single classed mystic thurge.


Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed some posts. Edition warring is not OK on paizo.com.

You are leeching all the fun out of this alias. :P

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A monk spell-caster combo reminiscent of the sacred fist would be a cool idea.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Soldier of Misfortune (Monk/Witch)? FLURRY-OF-HEXES

Grand Lodge

Momo Kimura wrote:

Soldier of Misfortune (Monk/Witch)? FLURRY-OF-HEXES

Id play that in a heartbeat.

Hopefully someone kind will make character sheets specific to all of the hybrid classes, similar to the ones Happy Camper did for the core and APG classes.

Honestly I'm just posting to post now, but since I'm close to 100 post I wanted to see if 100 was a magic number that awarded you a prize, like a all expense paid vacation to the Bahamas or something.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Odraude wrote:


Number 3 is right out the window, though. The Warpriest and Swashbuckler both use fighters as the base. And the Slayer and Hunter use rangers.

I assume he meant that there could be multiple classes using barbarian, or multiple classes using sorceror, but the bloodrager would be the only hybrid between sorceror and barbarian. Which I suspect is true.


For the last 4 hybrid classes to be detailed out in this book, are they combinations of the 8 classes that Paizo hasn't already created a hybrid for? (At least address by this book? - Looking at Magus)

Bard, Monk, Paladin, Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Summoner, Wizard

Do some core/base classes not get a hybrid class?

Interested in seeing a Summoner/Cavalier class.

Grand Lodge

Rovewin wrote:

For the last 4 hybrid classes to be detailed out in this book, are they combinations of the 8 classes that Paizo hasn't already created a hybrid for? (At least address by this book? - Looking at Magus)

Bard, Monk, Paladin, Alchemist, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Summoner, Wizard

Do some core/base classes not get a hybrid class?

Interested in seeing a Summoner/Cavalier class.

I think the summoner is the most unlikely one to hybridize. Evolutions are sorta complicated (but not as bad as people make them out to be). I wouldn't think they want an even more complicated class by combining it's features with something else. Besides how would they handle the eidolon.

94 post six more and I'm going to the Bahamas.


Summoner/Monk - Summons glowing weapons and suit of special armor as he screams "it's Morphin time!"

I seems like there are a few other phrases besides the usual that will trigger an avatar change.

That or I am being punished.

Grand Lodge

Maybe the necro-ninja. First he uses stealth, then he stabs you to death, then he makes you into his undead slave.

5 more, do I contact Lisa or Eric about my vacation plans.


It's Morphin time!

Yup, solved the riddle of the sphinx


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Its actually possible to make a balanced and more easy to follow Barbarian/Summoner than a Synthesist archetype. Yeah the Masquerade Reveler is basically a Barbarian who loses his rage powers for "magical Fae masks". It can be found in the Convergent Paths: Fey Archetypes (book).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I posited a witch/monk hybrid on the predictions thread I called it a Chakra Master, the basic idea is that it adds hexes to its strikes, flavoured by closing off the target's chakras.

Dark Archive

Bard/Gunslinger - Carries around a six-string git-tar/rifle, singing "Love Me Tender" in the tavern.

Those who do not embrace his singing are facing him down at high noon in the street - dramatic Morricone style guitar music playing right up until the final duel....with the lead up music in the background being played by the actual Bard/Gunslinger - aka..the Singing Cowboy.

Wait, Cow-Boy...does that break the two word rule?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Or a cavalier/rogue called the scoundrel. He acts all chivalrous but stabs you in the back first chance he gets.
The only class in the game that gets experience for betraying the party.

4 more, can't wait.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Zombie Ninja wrote:

Or a cavalier/rogue called the scoundrel. He acts all chivalrous but stabs you in the back first chance he gets.

The only class in the game that gets experience for betraying the party.

4 more, can't wait.

Cavalier/Rogue - Archetype - Redeemed Horse Thief. Specializes in stealing horses, but rides them for goodness instead of evilness. Knows all sorts of horse tricks and ranch branding/heraldy.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A gunslinger/rogue called the evil mustache twirler,. his special powers are snarky laugh, and dastardly plan.

I can smell the ocean air, and feel that sand beneath my feet.


this is morphin time
edit: awwww, I was hoping that work as well.


Kryzbyn wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Dustin Ashe wrote:
I want a class that is swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon, with all the strength of a raging fire and, of course, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
Somehow, I'll make a man out of you.
In just seven days?

HAH!

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