Ratfolk and Catfolk and Race Boons Oh My

Monday, June 3, 2013

Of all the feedback I receive about Pathfinder Society Organized Play, whether it be in person when I am visiting different regions, through emails, or on the messageboards, what I hear most is that non-convention-goers have little to no chance to obtain some of the convention-only boons that are offered at regional shows. The most popular of these boons are the racial boons, which open up the player's options to choose a unique race. I have thought long and hard on how we can even out things for those players who are not able to attend a convention for whatever reason.

First, let me clarify that we will always have special boons that can only be obtained at conventions. These will consist of a multitude of various options, from extending the range of the Day Job earnings chart to unique races. Our regional and national conventions and larger game days are where we garner the biggest PR for our game. But that doesn't mean I don't want to offer the chance of getting cool boons, especially racial boons, to members of our player base who don't attend conventions.

At these regional conventions, players only receive approximately a 10% chance to receive any boon that is provided at the convention. I don't think it is unreasonable to offer a similar chance to non-convention players.

One tool that has finally been opened to me is I am able to filter play of individual scenarios, and to see every reported table and every Pathfinder Society number that was at that table. I am also able to filter dates so I can see exactly how many tables of a specific scenario were reported over a specified time. Playing around with this new tool got me to thinking about how I could utilize it for the benefit of the entire Pathfinder Society player base.

My initial thought is that when a scenario presents something unique, such as helping a race like ratfolk, catfolk, or dhampirs (and no, I am not advising one way or another whether either of these races will make an appearance in Season 5), it might be possible to offer these races (or whatever races were aided in a specified scenario) via a lottery type of system. While I certainly don't want to flood the OP with a zoo of races (such as making them available on a Chronicle sheet for everyone who plays the specified scenario), I don't think it is a bad thing to occassionally give a limited pool of players the chance to play a new race, similar to the Grippli boon at Gen Con this year, as long as we control the flow of how many become available. With that said, my thinking is that after the first month or two of a specified scenario, I would randomly select from all tables that reported success in the specified scenario. All the players and GMs of the randomly selected tables would then have the unique Chronicle sheet sent directly to them.

Maybe this is or isn't the best way to offer unique boons to the entire playerbase, especially those who can't or won't attend conventions. However, it is the start of a working idea I am still toying with that would offer an equal chance to everyone who plays the specified scenario in a specified time limit. If you think this is a horrible idea, please offer a solution for how we can make it better. I would very much like to hear your feedback on what you think of the above system, or hear your thoughts on any other suggestions you might have for how to best utilize this new tool I have been given. As always, your feedback and comments help to strengthen the community at large, and without your feedback and participation, Pathfinder Society wouldn't be as awesome as it is today. I look forward to reading all of your comments.

Mike Brock
Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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skyshark wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Skyshark, I have to disagree with you completely. Some people just can't make it to conventions. Either they don't live in an area that has any, or they don't have the money to attend, or whatever. Why should they be denied the opportunity to get things that are available convention goers?

I never said that you shouldn't get any boons period if you can't attend a Con, you just don't get a chance at a racial boon. By keeping racial boons at the Con level, you keep the rarity and specialness of racial boons.

Re-read the blog. It says the percentages will remain the same, keeping the 'rarity and specialness' of boons.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

2 people marked this as a favorite.
skyshark wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled to something or entitled at having a chance at something because they can't attend a Con. If you can't make it, that sucks, i'm sorry, but it's something you have to deal with.

No. No it most certainly is not.

The weather is something you have to deal with. It is uncaring, unrelenting, implacable, and incapable of being changed.

An arbitrary rule set by a human being is the exact opposite of this. You do not have to just "deal with it" because there is both a mechanism for changing it and every reason for doing so. Things like this have been changed, they can be changed.

Trying to appealing to the rule for the rules sake would be incredibly circular and irrational.

It is not an "entitlement" promote fairness between people organizing and playing regularly weekly events in homes, flgs, comic shops, cafees, and bars and those organizing or playing in the occasional weekend long spree at a hotel. The only entitlement here is your assertion that your preferred way of playing deserves a free handout that it inexplicably wouldn't be fair to give the rest of the community.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I wonder if there people as dedicated to other games/mediums as some PFS players seem to be who go to other companies sites to talk about how unfair it is that the company releases special stuff just for the people who made a special effort to make it out to the convention/party/press release/special event?

You like Pokemon? Do you go to their boards to tell them its not fair to give people early release play of the new games at E3?

Like StarCraft? Do you go to blizzards website to tell them its unfair to give out free swag at BlizzCon?

Do you tell comic companies its unfair to release special stuff at NYCC, SDCC or any other big Comic Convention?

Just curious.

No, it might not be fair, but its a marketing tactic that companies seem to like. Why? Cause it draws people in who otherwise might decide not to go. As unfair as that might be to those who cant attend for one reason or another, it's really nothing to complain about.

3/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
skyshark wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled to something or entitled at having a chance at something because they can't attend a Con. If you can't make it, that sucks, i'm sorry, but it's something you have to deal with.

Sorry...but I'm going to turn this right back around on you. People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions. I would argue that someone who regularly GMs games throughout the year contributes more to the community at large than someone who attends a convention.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Louisiana—New Orleans aka Thar

Problem is even those that attend conventions have a very minimal chance at getting them , well unless your friends with the con coordinator.
Allowing them to be given out through other means is a good idea.

Grand Lodge

Deane Beman wrote:
skyshark wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled to something or entitled at having a chance at something because they can't attend a Con. If you can't make it, that sucks, i'm sorry, but it's something you have to deal with.
Sorry...but I'm going to turn this right back around on you. People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions. I would argue that someone who regularly GMs games throughout the year contributes more to the community at large than someone who attends a convention.

I seriously doubt that anyone who is able to regularly attend conventions is saying that they are entitled to a chance to win boons and such just for attending. No, Im not entitled to a chance to win them, and if they stopped being provided, then so be it. I dont go for the boons, they are just an added perk of going if you happen to get one.

Edited to remove apparent confusion.

Liberty's Edge

Seth Gipson wrote:
Deane Beman wrote:
skyshark wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled to something or entitled at having a chance at something because they can't attend a Con. If you can't make it, that sucks, i'm sorry, but it's something you have to deal with.
Sorry...but I'm going to turn this right back around on you. People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions. I would argue that someone who regularly GMs games throughout the year contributes more to the community at large than someone who attends a convention.
I seriously doubt that anyone who is able to regularly attend conventions is saying that they are entitled to boons and such just for attending. No, Im not entitled to them, and if they stopped being provided, then so be it. I dont go for the boons, they are just an added perk of going if you happen to get one.

Take another look at what he said:

Deane Beman wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions.

You are not responding to what he said.

Grand Lodge

graywulfe wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
Deane Beman wrote:
skyshark wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled to something or entitled at having a chance at something because they can't attend a Con. If you can't make it, that sucks, i'm sorry, but it's something you have to deal with.
Sorry...but I'm going to turn this right back around on you. People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions. I would argue that someone who regularly GMs games throughout the year contributes more to the community at large than someone who attends a convention.
I seriously doubt that anyone who is able to regularly attend conventions is saying that they are entitled to boons and such just for attending. No, Im not entitled to them, and if they stopped being provided, then so be it. I dont go for the boons, they are just an added perk of going if you happen to get one.

Take another look at what he said:

Deane Beman wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions.
You are not responding to what he said.

Edited. Happy?

/sarcasm


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Okay....here's a wild idea. Your local game store hosts a pathfinder night. Mine doesn't (I'd like to start but I'm not sure I have a store here(just moved)). Venture captains have a set # of race boons, that are delivered to GM's or at a mini con. (honestly like two tables or something.) You hold a lottery once a month or twice a season or something. Players and GM's enter their numbers in a hat. A drawing is done at the end of the night.

Very similar to Friday Night Magic, where the winner of that nights play gets booster packs or something. Entry to the drawing can be left up to local Venture Captains, can base it on attendance, excellent role-playing, creative character concepts and the like.

I think that is an adequate solution to the problem. 1-2 boons per season or a max 5-6 in a calendar year per area would be neat. Gets everyone in the shop to buy die, minis, modules, ap's etc.

My .02

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Doug Miles wrote:
I'll throw in my 2 cents. I don't like non-Core races. It was hard enough running a serious game before the circus came to town. People are going to complain no matter what you do. Golarion has always been a humanocentric campaign world. The one thing that I like is linking the race boons to reporting. Just make the requirement for the reward justifiably difficult. When does the Aspis Consortium organized play campaign begin? I'm in.

lol We always joke at PFS in my area that the Aspis Consortium is a less evil (although perhaps more financially motivated) version of the Pathfinder Society. I laugh when the mission says "Keep destruction to a minimum" and am like "They do realize we're Pathfinders right?" :P


Haldred wrote:

Okay....here's a wild idea. Your local game store hosts a pathfinder night. Mine doesn't (I'd like to start but I'm not sure I have a store here(just moved)). Venture captains have a set # of race boons, that are delivered to GM's or at a mini con. (honestly like two tables or something.) You hold a lottery once a month or twice a season or something. Players and GM's enter their numbers in a hat. A drawing is done at the end of the night.

Very similar to Friday Night Magic, where the winner of that nights play gets booster packs or something. Entry to the drawing can be left up to local Venture Captains, can base it on attendance, excellent role-playing, creative character concepts and the like.

I think that is an adequate solution to the problem. 1-2 boons per season or a max 5-6 in a calendar year per area would be neat. Gets everyone in the shop to buy die, minis, modules, ap's etc.

My .02

WHY isn't ^ this a sanctioned "thing" already?


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The reason why Paizo wants people to go to Cons to get Race Boons is the most secret thing in secretom... they are a business first.

Yes it is generally frowned upon to pay cash for a race boon. Yet in all actuality, spending cash to go to the Con is really a lottery chance to get a race boon Vs spending money to get a race boon with little chance involved (the frowned upon option).

If all races were legal, Paizo would have a tougher time attracting people to their cons which means less cash flow, which means they are not profiting.

The Pathfinder Puritan fiddlesticks really about why there are legal, restricted, and banned races. The excuses I've read by such Pathfinder Puritans are such moot points that they barely hold an ounce of water.

Paizo is a business. Money is what allows them to publish more books, hold cons, sell more miniatures, etc.

I would preorder a player companion that came with a Chronicle Sheet for that Race like how Aasimars had it as that is closer to a guaranteed chance.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

How does paizo make money from most cons?

Silver Crusade

BigNorseWolf wrote:
How does paizo make money from most cons?

Remember, PFS is a marketing tool. Just last night, we had a player who hadn't played D&D in a few years show up to the local gaming store, not even realizing that it was Pathfinder night. He saw us playing 5 tables of PFS, and by the time he left, we'd convinced him to come back the following week to play, and he'll probably end up buying at least the Core Rulebook, as well.

That's how game days and cons make Paizo money.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West aka JohnF

BigNorseWolf wrote:
How does paizo make money from most cons?

At the last two cons in our area (each of over 100 PFS tables - a sizeable chunk of the total convention activities), the PFS rooms got a considerable amount of walk-in business from con attendees who migrated over when the announced LFR games or "D&D next" sessions failed to materialise. That will probably result in quite a few sales for Paizo.


I believe the most recent convention had some boons being sold for a charity auction by Paizo in which I think one of them sold for 600-something bucks. Although I wouldn't spend more than 100 bucks myself for a chronicle sheet depending on what it was and I'm not really a weekly go-er to PFS.

I do agree with the factor that new players in PFS may choose to spend some bucks on the Core, APG, U. Combat, UE, ARG, UM, and U. Campaign. That and depending on what new kind of player we are talking about they maybe bursting with enthusiasm to go a convention with their buddies.

... now to tie this back to Race Boons.

For whatever complaints were held to Paizo, no more Chronicle Sheets in preorder books for races, like the Aasimar before it became legal in PFS w/o a chronicle sheet.

I'm not against buying boons or just race boons specifically, cool stuff to be done with them that has that almost phantasmal mysticism of "ground rarely tread" for the imagination and ideas of players and GMs alike. However like some voiced in this blog post, they are not in favor of it.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

I do have a little bit of a concern in that some of us don't really have a lot of control over our sessions getting posted. So far, out of my last ten chron sheets, only one is up on paizo.

That pretty much guarentees that I would not get access to these boons.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Fromper wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
How does paizo make money from most cons?

Remember, PFS is a marketing tool. Just last night, we had a player who hadn't played D&D in a few years show up to the local gaming store, not even realizing that it was Pathfinder night. He saw us playing 5 tables of PFS, and by the time he left, we'd convinced him to come back the following week to play, and he'll probably end up buying at least the Core Rulebook, as well.

That's how game days and cons make Paizo money.

Which is how paizo makes money from PFS, but not how it makes money from cons specifically. A comic shop or FLGS can do the same thing.

Liberty's Edge

Seth Gipson wrote:
graywulfe wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
Deane Beman wrote:
skyshark wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled to something or entitled at having a chance at something because they can't attend a Con. If you can't make it, that sucks, i'm sorry, but it's something you have to deal with.
Sorry...but I'm going to turn this right back around on you. People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions. I would argue that someone who regularly GMs games throughout the year contributes more to the community at large than someone who attends a convention.
I seriously doubt that anyone who is able to regularly attend conventions is saying that they are entitled to boons and such just for attending. No, Im not entitled to them, and if they stopped being provided, then so be it. I dont go for the boons, they are just an added perk of going if you happen to get one.

Take another look at what he said:

Deane Beman wrote:
People need to stop feeling that they are entitled at having a chance at something special because they attend conventions.
You are not responding to what he said.

Edited. Happy?

/sarcasm

Not that you seem to actually care, which saddens me as you are supposedly acting as a representative of Paizo, but yes responding to what the poster actually said does improve my disposition towards your post.


Neither side entitled to boonz, race or no.
Men and women on High Horsez need to hop off, humility.
Non-high horseman need be down be earth, breathe.
Some getz them, they workz much as volunteers, no one forced them
More boon available? Helpful, would loosenz tension.


Perhaps a high-cost vanity would work? Something like "Ally of the Catfolk" where you spent 16 prestige on one character to unlock the boon. It would be something to work toward for players really invested in playing a certain race, but the high cost would prevent an avalanche of rare race characters. Convention attendees would still get a unique benefit, but everyone would have access overall.


Possible
Double prestige points, thirty-two!
Twenty-four come back from deaded.
Idea suggested others past.
Noble goal others work for.
Race boon in controlled freedom.

I know no about future.

Dark Archive

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While this is bound to get buried deep within the bowls of this thread I hope it's effectiveness stands out.

I would recommend that specific boons be handed to Venture Officers. Those Venture Officers then come up with their own criteria for non-convention attendance to award the "special" boons.

I was originally against this very proposed idea for one reason. It makes the local VO a point of contention and possible mistrust among their community if the perception of this award doesn't go out to whom individuals perceive should receive the boon.

I'm tossing that nay-say aside. We are community leaders and dealing with that should be our responsibility.

Folks who attend conventions should have the same award chance as those who don't. VO's do not "only" attend conventions.

On top of that...yes, I do think these boons should be handed out by the VO's and that people SHOULD have to interact with their local VO. It will help build the community, centralize it, and better yet create a flow of communication with the local coordinator, who then communicates back up to Mike.

TLDR

These special boons should be handed out by Venture Officers as representatives of Paizo and community leaders.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

@Kyle

I do like that idea, even if I trust some VOs not half as far as I could throw 'em.*

Another idea would be for the VOs to get boons to give to event coordinators.

Of course, in a way, Catfolk espeically amuse me as a boon, as a Raksasha tiefling is very catfolk like. (especially if you have Blood of Fiends and the ARG. Then you can get claws too!)

*

Spoiler:
Thea gave me a spare Kitsune boon for a contest here in Ohio that no one entered. :-( And I think our VC is giving away a ifrit boon (IIRC) in a random "GM to enter" drawing.


Personally I think they should coordinate with their Venture Captains/Lieutenants to organize events based around when these timelines for racial boons are set. So if they say the month of March is the month of the Catfolk. Then that means that the Venture captains must organize at least one event where the scenario is run. Give out a month in advance warning so that the Venture captains can send out invites and get things ready.

As far as who gets the racial boons. I don't see why you wouldn't just give the boons out to those who attended these events. I honestly don't understand why racial boons need to be so insanely rare.

I'd think that templates would be more of the super rare boons that people could get. How bad ass would it be to get the half-dragon template after being the sole winning group of an event at paizo con. I think having a 10% chance to get a catfolk is a bit lackluster IMO.

Sovereign Court

Kyle Elliott wrote:

While this is bound to get buried deep within the bowls of this thread I hope it's effectiveness stands out.

I would recommend that specific boons be handed to Venture Officers. Those Venture Officers then come up with their own criteria for non-convention attendance to award the "special" boons.

I was originally against this very proposed idea for one reason. It makes the local VO a point of contention and possible mistrust among their community if the perception of this award doesn't go out to whom individuals perceive should receive the boon.

I'm tossing that nay-say aside. We are community leaders and dealing with that should be our responsibility.

Folks who attend conventions should have the same award chance as those who don't. VO's do not "only" attend conventions.

On top of that...yes, I do think these boons should be handed out by the VO's and that people SHOULD have to interact with their local VO. It will help build the community, centralize it, and better yet create a flow of communication with the local coordinator, who then communicates back up to Mike.

TLDR

These special boons should be handed out by Venture Officers as representatives of Paizo and community leaders.

I think this is a great idea. The different VOs will still need to come up with their own way to give this out but at least it gets a few more of these boons out to people.

Silver Crusade

FLite wrote:

I do have a little bit of a concern in that some of us don't really have a lot of control over our sessions getting posted. So far, out of my last ten chron sheets, only one is up on paizo.

That pretty much guarentees that I would not get access to these boons.

You need to complain to your GMs and local organizers to keep up with this stuff better.


Drakerd0456 wrote:

Personally I think they should coordinate with their Venture Captains/Lieutenants to organize events based around when these timelines for racial boons are set. So if they say the month of March is the month of the Catfolk. Then that means that the Venture captains must organize at least one event where the scenario is run. Give out a month in advance warning so that the Venture captains can send out invites and get things ready.

As far as who gets the racial boons. I don't see why you wouldn't just give the boons out to those who attended these events. I honestly don't understand why racial boons need to be so insanely rare.

I'd think that templates would be more of the super rare boons that people could get. How bad ass would it be to get the half-dragon template after being the sole winning group of an event at paizo con. I think having a 10% chance to get a catfolk is a bit lackluster IMO.

Something about how your not really meant to walk down the street and see say ten Kobolds, five Catfolk, eight Kitsune, thirteen Oreads, etc.

Plus the obvious reasoning that some Get-Rich-Quickly-Dude/Chick will ruin it all for everyone by making copies of each chronicle sheet and then sell them, probably on craigslist. As to why they are kept under such secure lock-and-key.

@ Kyle Elliot: I like your idea and would like to see it implemented more.


Kyle I like your idea. It does present a problem similar to those of us unable to get to cons. My VO is a six hour drive away. He is in a different time zone. Emails and PMs only go so far. There are two VOs closer, but as they are not my VO, it does doesn't really apply. (FWIW Paizo is closer than my VO--one reason I can make it to PaizoCon :)

I like what Mike has proposed, because it depends on ME setting up games in MY area. It will encourage my players to GM more (even if its only the one table). I think it will encourage others to set up in their areas.

FWIW I dinnae think your idea and this one are exclusive by any means.

Grand Lodge

Kyle Elliott wrote:


TLDR

These special boons should be handed out by Venture Officers as representatives of Paizo and community leaders.

Yes. This is just common sense.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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Momo Kimura wrote:

Something about how your not really meant to walk down the street and see say ten Kobolds, five Catfolk, eight Kitsune, thirteen Oreads, etc.

Plus the obvious reasoning that some Get-Rich-Quickly-Dude/Chick will ruin it all for everyone by making copies of each chronicle sheet and then sell them, probably on craigslist. As to why they are kept under such secure lock-and-key.

But 13 tieflings are fine. :P

More seriously, the second paragraph is a non-starter for me. So far the community has been very good at shunning anyone who's done that.

(Aside: I have a blank three race boon that another poster sent me. While I've not tried to use it (like I said, it's unsigned) there's nothing stopping me from doing exactly as suggested above, well except my own sense of fair play)

5/5

Race boons are a 2 edged sword.

As a player, I enjoy running something different from time to time and feel the Adv Race Guide is an excellent piece of work which should be taken advantage of.

As a GM, many different racial feats, talents, powers, etc. etc. is just something more to try and remember and some players will try to take advantage of a GM's limited knowledge of each and every race. But then again I've seen supposedly "experienced" players do stupid stuff, like trying to use Fascinate in combat. It's just a GM's job to know this stuff, eventually! If more races are added we'll learn them.

I think overall I prefer to add depth to the characters and the game by allowing race boons. After all, this depth is what makes Pathfinder so much better than D&D 3.5!

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

WinterwolfNW wrote:

Race boons are a 2 edged sword.

As a player, I enjoy running something different from time to time and feel the Adv Race Guide is an excellent piece of work which should be taken advantage of.

As a GM, many different racial feats, talents, powers, etc. etc. is just something more to try and remember and some players will try to take advantage of a GM's limited knowledge of each and every race. But then again I've seen supposedly "experienced" players do stupid stuff, like trying to use Fascinate in combat. It's just a GM's job to know this stuff, eventually! If more races are added we'll learn them.

I think overall I prefer to add depth to the characters and the game by allowing race boons. After all, this depth is what makes Pathfinder so much better than D&D 3.5!

I have seen a GM try to use Fascinate in combat...

Not sure if it was his idea, because we were so far off the rails, or if it was actually written into the scenario.

5/5

Matthew Morris wrote:
Momo Kimura wrote:

Plus the obvious reasoning that some Get-Rich-Quickly-Dude/Chick will ruin it all for everyone by making copies of each chronicle sheet and then sell them, probably on craigslist. As to why they are kept under such secure lock-and-key.

(Aside: I have a blank three race boon that another poster sent me. While I've not tried to use it (like I said, it's unsigned) there's nothing stopping me from doing exactly as suggested above, well except my own sense of fair play)

...

What Pathfinder/Paizo needs to do is keep track of Boons electronically on the website. They could link Boons to your PFS number, make the "Add New Character" Race listing a Pull Down (like the date pulls down a calendar) instead of a Fill-In box and Pull Down all 10 normal races plus any race that a player had a Boon for. If the player used the Boon, that race would be eliminated electronically from the Pull Down the next time the player created a new character. That would eliminate any cheating or passing boon off to friends.
Any special races from boons would be given a special code by the computer when created, like XXXXX -5CA (for Catfolk for example) so GMs would know it was an authorized character race.

Silver Crusade

All Pazio/ John and Mike Would have to do is put the players PFS number on the boon. A Gm would just have to check the boon's number vs the players PFS number to see if they matched.

John and Mike, would you consider adding boons that unlocked Racial goodies from the ARG and the Race books or posssibly let players buy a choice off of charts in Blood of fiends or blood of angels or any of the other race player companions just require that the player have a copy of the book. Would you also consider letting players buy racial features from the ARG or the Racial player companions with prestige.


To be honest, I wish they'd just do away with the requirement of a Racial Boon all together. I only played my first game a month ago and seriously, It was not fun watching each of my character ideas get shot down one after another just because I didn't have the boon needed to play that race.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Hey Kyle! Just as an FYI this topic comes up from time to time, so I don't think you'll make any traction getting the races opened up. I'd recommend checking out some of those old threads before retreading the same ground.

As a quick tidbit, you can always find out what's legal in PFS by checking the additional resources. It saves you the hassle of having a really cool idea only to have it be blown by the realization that X, Y, or Z isn't legal.

I like to think of PFS as a big home game, and having the GM not want there to be any monstrous races or evil PCs, as well as a few other "house rules." Pathfinder Society is just a lot more up front and clear about what those rules are that most GMs I've met.

You can also download and flip through the Guide to Society Play. It's got a great section on character creation in there.

So don't get too down in the dumps, you can still play those characters in a home game, with people you meet playing PFS. :)

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Washington—Seattle aka Taenia

Furthermore you can get a homegame going on one the PFS legal Adventure Paths, play it in campaign mode with your "insert whatever character you want to play" and when you are done apply those credits to a legal PFS character.

Lantern Lodge

Walter Sheppard wrote:
Hey Kyle! Just as an FYI this topic comes up from time to time, so I don't think you'll make any traction getting the races opened up. I'd recommend checking out some of those old threads before retreading the same ground.

:) Frankly I agree with him. I like variety (variety was ultimately the reason why I stuck with 3x DnD rather than move to 4e.

Anything that will allow me additional variety is a good thing. Locking me into a core race to satisfy a few grognards would be hugely irritating. Locking me into a core race as a business decision... well, that'll be irritating but at least understandable. Allowing me the options I want, even if I have to do some extra work for it, is great.

3/5

You can play any race that you want in Pathfinder...you just can't do so in Organized Play. There are ways to earn boons in order to open up new races for you. Running a single game for either of the official PbP game days would earn a racial boon without ever having to leave the house or spending a dime.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

It isn't about irritating grognards.

its about keeping things as simple as possible for GMs who aren't going to know all the rules about all the millions of races out there.

3/5

Deane Beman wrote:
Running a single game for either of the official PbP game days would earn a racial boon without ever having to leave the house or spending a dime.

I just want to point out that non-standerd races are not nearly the source of problems that they used to be now that we have online events. Even if you don't get a race boon, you can head over to the boon trading thread and the community is usually prepared to be generous.


Andrew Christian wrote:

It isn't about irritating grognards.

its about keeping things as simple as possible for GMs who aren't going to know all the rules about all the millions of races out there.

I have read a lot of these similar threads, and I have never heard someone say that they don't like non-core race availability because they can't keep up with the rules. If that were true, you would hear the same thing for every spell, feat, etc that comes out. There is a whole lot more to keep up with than a few race abilities. The most common argument I hear about non-core races is that there are "too many" of them at the tables and not enough of the "right" races. If there are so many at the tables all the time, I don't think the handful of racial abilities should be very taxing to keep up with.


I think people should just get to play what they want and not have to give into the core "tolkien" races. Just the fact that you have to acquire some weird boon by doing a con or at random to play something unique and fun and have a more characterful choice besides a elf or a dwarf feels like a huge back step for me. I liked pathfinder because it was getting away from tired old tropes and was a more organized 3.5. I just feel really disappointed with how sheltered and afraid of the different most of these comments are, and it makes me sad for pfs and this game for it to be so xenophobic of change.

Grand Lodge

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I've personally never had an urge to play a race that can only be gotten via a boon and of the boons I have gotten (maybe 6 now), I have given away to friends because I know they would enjoy them more than me.

If this gives my friends more access to race boons then I'm all for it.

Shadow Lodge

Nyhmboi wrote:
I think people should just get to play what they want and not have to give into the core "tolkien" races. Just the fact that you have to acquire some weird boon by doing a con or at random to play something unique and fun and have a more characterful choice besides a elf or a dwarf feels like a huge back step for me. I liked pathfinder because it was getting away from tired old tropes and was a more organized 3.5. I just feel really disappointed with how sheltered and afraid of the different most of these comments are, and it makes me sad for pfs and this game for it to be so xenophobic of change.

And I'm one of those players who dislikes the "cantina" and looks down on exotics to some extent as a crutch for players who can't come with cool characters without a weird race to show how "unique" they are.

This is not an attitude I will wave in anyone's face unless they tell me how sheltered and afraid I am of change or suggest I'm xenophobic because I feel this way.

Pfs tries to balance your views and mine in the same world, not an easy task. Please, accept the challenge of coming up with unique and cool characters without the boon. Make your alchemist a stoner, have your witch bring pie to all your briefings and for ERASTIL'S SAKE, MARRY YOUR EIDOLON before you tell me all your character ideas are exhausted or suggest I'm a grumpy gronard for not loving race booms.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kerney wrote:

And I'm one of those players who dislikes the "cantina" and looks down on exotics to some extent as a crutch for players who can't come with cool characters without a weird race to show how "unique" they are.

This is not an attitude I will wave in anyone's face

Dude, you're waving in the breeze with full on neon lights.

The fact is someone may have a concept that only works or works better with a certain race, and they want to play it. You have no place telling them that their role play sucks because thats the idea they want to go with.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

Andrei Buters wrote:
Kyle Elliott wrote:


TLDR

These special boons should be handed out by Venture Officers as representatives of Paizo and community leaders.

Yes. This is just common sense.

Yes, I thing this would work especially well for the smaller communities. Its exactly those that have the issues of not being able to attend a con.

With the smaller communities, the VO knows most people, and can decide who deserves the boon based on how much a persone gives back to the community. (not only GMing)

Shadow Lodge

Yes open up all the races, because what Society really needs is more Goblins and Drow...

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