Ratfolk and Catfolk and Race Boons Oh My

Monday, June 3, 2013

Of all the feedback I receive about Pathfinder Society Organized Play, whether it be in person when I am visiting different regions, through emails, or on the messageboards, what I hear most is that non-convention-goers have little to no chance to obtain some of the convention-only boons that are offered at regional shows. The most popular of these boons are the racial boons, which open up the player's options to choose a unique race. I have thought long and hard on how we can even out things for those players who are not able to attend a convention for whatever reason.

First, let me clarify that we will always have special boons that can only be obtained at conventions. These will consist of a multitude of various options, from extending the range of the Day Job earnings chart to unique races. Our regional and national conventions and larger game days are where we garner the biggest PR for our game. But that doesn't mean I don't want to offer the chance of getting cool boons, especially racial boons, to members of our player base who don't attend conventions.

At these regional conventions, players only receive approximately a 10% chance to receive any boon that is provided at the convention. I don't think it is unreasonable to offer a similar chance to non-convention players.

One tool that has finally been opened to me is I am able to filter play of individual scenarios, and to see every reported table and every Pathfinder Society number that was at that table. I am also able to filter dates so I can see exactly how many tables of a specific scenario were reported over a specified time. Playing around with this new tool got me to thinking about how I could utilize it for the benefit of the entire Pathfinder Society player base.

My initial thought is that when a scenario presents something unique, such as helping a race like ratfolk, catfolk, or dhampirs (and no, I am not advising one way or another whether either of these races will make an appearance in Season 5), it might be possible to offer these races (or whatever races were aided in a specified scenario) via a lottery type of system. While I certainly don't want to flood the OP with a zoo of races (such as making them available on a Chronicle sheet for everyone who plays the specified scenario), I don't think it is a bad thing to occassionally give a limited pool of players the chance to play a new race, similar to the Grippli boon at Gen Con this year, as long as we control the flow of how many become available. With that said, my thinking is that after the first month or two of a specified scenario, I would randomly select from all tables that reported success in the specified scenario. All the players and GMs of the randomly selected tables would then have the unique Chronicle sheet sent directly to them.

Maybe this is or isn't the best way to offer unique boons to the entire playerbase, especially those who can't or won't attend conventions. However, it is the start of a working idea I am still toying with that would offer an equal chance to everyone who plays the specified scenario in a specified time limit. If you think this is a horrible idea, please offer a solution for how we can make it better. I would very much like to hear your feedback on what you think of the above system, or hear your thoughts on any other suggestions you might have for how to best utilize this new tool I have been given. As always, your feedback and comments help to strengthen the community at large, and without your feedback and participation, Pathfinder Society wouldn't be as awesome as it is today. I look forward to reading all of your comments.

Mike Brock
Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

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Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

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Finlanderboy wrote:

The GM boons are a nice thing I get to give to other people. Honestly I know several people with stacks of unsued GM boons. Is it that hard get one?

It is if you live, for example, in Europe.

3/5

Fromper wrote:
but I don't think the people who run cold really deserve any reward. In most of those cases, the players would have been better off not being able to play.

As someone who has stepped up more than my fair share and run modules cold, I can say that it seems to me that someone who is willing to give up their chance to play to let others play should be encouraged, not told "hey, we don't give out anything to GMs who are willing to help us out when we need it."

I can definitely agree that running cold happens WAAAAAYYYYY more at conventions than at gamedays, mainly because gamedays are much less likely to have a dozen people show up spontaneously and say "hey, we wanna try pathfinder society".

I can also see that not every GM can (or should) run cold. Please do not take this to mean that I think that GMs who can't are somehow "lesser" or "not-as-cool" GMs than those who do. What I'm saying is that each GM brings different skill sets to the table.

Silver Crusade

Vrog Skyreaver wrote:
Fromper wrote:
but I don't think the people who run cold really deserve any reward. In most of those cases, the players would have been better off not being able to play.

As someone who has stepped up more than my fair share and run modules cold, I can say that it seems to me that someone who is willing to give up their chance to play to let others play should be encouraged, not told "hey, we don't give out anything to GMs who are willing to help us out when we need it."

I can definitely agree that running cold happens WAAAAAYYYYY more at conventions than at gamedays, mainly because gamedays are much less likely to have a dozen people show up spontaneously and say "hey, we wanna try pathfinder society".

I can also see that not every GM can (or should) run cold. Please do not take this to mean that I think that GMs who can't are somehow "lesser" or "not-as-cool" GMs than those who do. What I'm saying is that each GM brings different skill sets to the table.

There are a lot of scenarios that are just too complex to run cold, and a lot of GMs that just aren't good enough at it to even try. IMHO, finding the right combination of a simple enough scenario and good enough GM for a cold run to work out is tough enough not to risk it. I won't play at such a table again, unless it's a GM who I REALLY trust already.

I appreciate people who step up to GM at the last minute. I did it myself last Monday at our local game day. But I didn't try to run a scenario that I hadn't read before hand. Instead, I brought 4 scenarios that I'd run before, hoping to find something that most of the "extra" players hadn't played before. I ended up running for 5 players, and having to turn 2 away.

This wasn't a situation with lots of walk ins at the last minute, either. We knew more than a week ahead of time that we didn't have enough GMs for that evening, but I knew I wouldn't have time to read a new scenario that week due to other things in my life. On the signup web page, one of the organizers for the group even posted 5 or 6 days before hand to point out that we needed more GMs, and nobody stepped up. This is the point at which extra incentives to get people to try GMing who have never done it before would be useful.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Running cold seems to be irrelevant to the conversation.

Shadow Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Running cold seems to be irrelevant to the conversation.

It is/could be the kind of thing a coordinator should be able to mark as "this gm did something above and beyond, send the man a boon".

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Kerney wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Running cold seems to be irrelevant to the conversation.
It is/could be the kind of thing a coordinator should be able to mark as "this gm did something above and beyond, send the man a boon".

Last time we had someone run cold at our local game day I gave them a free battlemat that I had picked up as swag at a con. I don't always have that sort of stuff available but so far having the need to have someone run cold at our local game days has been very limited.

I generally think GMs that run cold do need a reward as they usually came to the game expecting to play and are sacrificing this at the last minute for everyone else's benefit. I have occasionally run into GMs, however, that so pride themselves on their ability to run things cold that they seldom ever bother prepping whether they have the time or not. This sort of behavior I don't want to reward.

Liberty's Edge

Rycaut wrote:

As an organizer of a weekly game night and a frequent PFS DM my primary concern would be that like the recent Way of the Kirin this would be challenging for some folks to get a chance to play in time - if their usual group schedules games a month or two in advance it can be harder to get DMs and players for a new scenario. With Way of the Kirin I won't have a pc in the right range to play and I may not be able to schedule the scenario to run it before Gencon to qualify for the special boon.

For a chance at a race boon I'd suggest:

- if you want to use this method at least give more than a month to get it played by (I'd suggest at least two or better yet three month especially if people have to take a break over the summer) ...

I agree with this.

I like the concept, but in our area we had a fairly difficult time accommodating all the people that 'needed' the 2 faction ender scenarios.
I think a 2 or 3 month period would be ideal.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Kerney wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Running cold seems to be irrelevant to the conversation.
It is/could be the kind of thing a coordinator should be able to mark as "this gm did something above and beyond, send the man a boon".

Only if the argument goes back to doing that at a con is infinitely more valuable than doing it for a game day.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
John Francis wrote:
You mean people organise conventions without having GMs doing that?
The specific argument was made that we didn't want to reward game day games because they might be run cold. I think if we apply that logic fairly we shouldn't reward con games, so that argument doesn't hold.

In the convention environment, there's more interaction and more chance to prevent cold-running by more organizing.

I hate cold runs. I won't do them, I won't ask someone to do them until out of all other options, because I think they're terrible for the campaign.

They will still happen, even on my watch, because sometimes you're out of Gms and swamped with new players. The failure of some cons to police themselves is another topic; the con organizer should be organizing better.

There is no oversight organizer for a local gameday was my point, and we can't tell which behavior is which. A perennially unprepared con GM will run out of cons to GM for eventually.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

TetsujinOni wrote:

In the convention environment, there's more interaction and more chance to prevent cold-running by more organizing.

The bigger something is, the harder it is to organize and the greater chance something will go wrong. My experience is that Cold-running occurs much more frequently at cons than it does game days.

Silver Crusade

I'm really shocked to see comments from people saying that cold running is MORE deserving of some sort of reward. I'd say the opposite.

While I won't try to suggest any sort of rules to give less rewards to GMs who cold run than other GMs, I would suggest wording be added to the Guide to Organized Play expressly forbidding the practice.

Giving up your chance to play to run at the last minute is commendable. Doing so with an adventure that you haven't had a chance to read and prepare properly is idiotic. There's no reason that someone GMing at the last minute should be forced to run the scenario that's on the schedule instead of one they're actually prepared to run.

But at this point, we're getting way off topic. This thread is about GM rewards, and race boons specifically. Maybe we should start a new thread about cold runs.

Shadow Lodge

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In sorting this all out, I'm also personally okay with...

Rewarding a few people who may not really, fully deserve the reward in order to ensure more people who deserve a reward gets theirs.

.. over ..

Not rewarding more people who deserve a reward in order to be safer about not giving a reward to people who questionably deserve it.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
wakedown wrote:

In sorting this all out, I'm also personally okay with...

Rewarding a few people who may not really, fully deserve the reward in order to ensure more people who deserve a reward gets theirs.

.. over ..

Not rewarding more people who deserve a reward in order to be safer about not giving a reward to people who questionably deserve it.

Agreed.

But the real issue, based on repeated comments from Paizo staff in the past (mostly Mike Brock), is that Paizo sees convention boons as a special incentive that they don't want to do away with. They don't want to give those same rewards to non-convention people, because then they wouldn't have that special incentive for conventions.

The solution, which I think almost everyone in this thread recently seems to agree with, is to find a method (the exact method is still up for debate) to distribute older convention boons to non-convention GMs. That way, the latest and greatest boons are still convention-only, making them a good incentive, but after a year or two, non-convention goers have access to those treats.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Fromper wrote:
I'm really shocked to see comments from people saying that cold running is MORE deserving of some sort of reward. I'd say the opposite.

I would say it depends a lot on the situation. Asking people to do things at the last minute is always more demanding then asking them to do it ahead of time. Thus a greater incentive may be required.

Quote:
While I won't try to suggest any sort of rules to give less rewards to GMs who cold run than other GMs, I would suggest wording be added to the Guide to Organized Play expressly forbidding the practice.

I absolutely loath the idea of cold running. I think it does a disservice both to the author and the players. That having been said, if the choice comes down to playing a mod run cold and not playing at all, I think most people would choose playing it cold.

Quote:
Giving up your chance to play to run at the last minute is commendable. Doing so with an adventure that you haven't had a chance to read and prepare properly is idiotic. There's no reason that someone GMing at the last minute should be forced to run the scenario that's on the schedule instead of one they're actually prepared to run.

Firstly, what makes you think they are prepped to run anything? Most cold run GMs tend to be pulled from the ranks of those signed up to play, not those signed up to GM. So the only thing most of them are prepped to do is play.

Secondly, people who signed up to play X Mod know they can play X Mod and want to play X Mod. There is no guarantee that if I change it to Y Mod that anyone can or will want to play it. In fact, I find the odds rather good that this is the case since most players sign up to play new mods they haven't played before, but most people who might already have a mod prepped to go but are not actually expecting to GM usually have an older mod prepped that many may have already played.

Silver Crusade

trollbill wrote:
Quote:
Giving up your chance to play to run at the last minute is commendable. Doing so with an adventure that you haven't had a chance to read and prepare properly is idiotic. There's no reason that someone GMing at the last minute should be forced to run the scenario that's on the schedule instead of one they're actually prepared to run.

Firstly, what makes you think they are prepped to run anything? Most cold run GMs tend to be pulled from the ranks of those signed up to play, not those signed up to GM. So the only thing most of them are prepped to do is play.

Secondly, people who signed up to play X Mod know they can play X Mod and want to play X Mod. There is no guarantee that if I change it to Y Mod that anyone can or will want to play it. In fact, I find the odds rather good that this is the case since most players sign up to play new mods they haven't played before, but most people who might already have a mod prepped to go but are not actually expecting to GM usually have an older mod prepped that many may have already played.

Anyone who is stepping up to GM at the last minute had better be someone who has GMed in PFS before. Thus, they've obviously read and run at least one other scenario, even if they weren't expecting to run it at this particular moment. That's the adventure they should be running, instead of cold running something and probably providing a subpar playing experience.

As for who signed up for what, you'll never satisfy everyone all of the time. As I've said, I GMed at the last minute just last Monday. We had 3 people signed up for a high level adventure that didn't have any GM, and 11 people (including me) signed up to play a new, low level scenario that only had one GM. Once I stepped out of playing and volunteered to run, that left us with 7 players. Seeing the fiasco coming on our signup web site, I brought 4 adventures with me that day that I have run before and could have GMed for them, and asked who had played which before. I ended up GMing for 5 people, and 2 didn't get to play. It happens.

Despite regularly having extra players who didn't register in advance, that's the first time I've ever seen that group turn anyone away, mostly because I end up GMing at the last minute if it's about to come to that. But I've never run a scenario cold, and I never will. And after my past experience as a player at those types of tables, I'll never play at a cold run table again, either. Not playing is usually a better experience than playing at a table with a clueless GM.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Fromper wrote:
As for who signed up for what, you'll never satisfy everyone all of the time. As I've said, I GMed at the last minute just last Monday. We had 3 people signed up for a high level adventure that didn't have any GM, and 11 people (including me) signed up to play a new, low level scenario that only had one GM. Once I stepped out of playing and volunteered to run, that left us with 7 players. Seeing the fiasco coming on our signup web site, I brought 4 adventures with me that day that I have run before and could have GMed for them, and asked who had played which before. I...

While I applaud you for preparing to have something to run at the last minute when you signed up to play rather than GM, I think you are the exception, not the rule.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

TetsujinOni wrote:


There is no oversight organizer for a local gameday was my point, and we can't tell which behavior is which.

You can't. The players at those game days can. It would seem to be a self correcting problem even faster with a game day than a con: if someone runs badly you remember their name a lot better when they're 1 person of 7 that you see every friday than if they're 1 person in 500 you see every six months.

Quote:
A perennially unprepared con GM will run out of cons to GM for eventually.

Again, the same thing will apply to game days, unless the DM is inexplicably willing to roam the circuit stretched over 100s of miles but not prep the scenarios

The more bad arguments like this I see where the complaint could just as or even more easily be applied to con dming the less convinced I am that there are any good arguments for such a vast gulf in treatment.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Twice I've seen players do their very first PFS run as a cold run. Once at a convention, once at the local game day.

In both cases the GM failed to show up and no other GMs were available (before somebody asks, in both cases I was GMing another table). The choice was between a cold run and sending people home.

I think both players acted far above the call and both should have been rewarded.

Silver Crusade

trollbill wrote:
Fromper wrote:
As for who signed up for what, you'll never satisfy everyone all of the time. As I've said, I GMed at the last minute just last Monday. We had 3 people signed up for a high level adventure that didn't have any GM, and 11 people (including me) signed up to play a new, low level scenario that only had one GM. Once I stepped out of playing and volunteered to run, that left us with 7 players. Seeing the fiasco coming on our signup web site, I brought 4 adventures with me that day that I have run before and could have GMed for them, and asked who had played which before. I...
While I applaud you for preparing to have something to run at the last minute when you signed up to play rather than GM, I think you are the exception, not the rule.

While I prepared in the sense of bringing 4 adventures with me, it's not like I had time to study them this time around. They were all scenarios that I'd GMed before and hadn't looked at in at least 6 months. And I usually like to draw maps in advance, which I didn't have time to do this time.

That's kinda my point - ANYONE who has GMed before in PFS can re-run the same scenario again, and almost guarantee that it'll turn out better than trying to cold run something they've never read.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

(There's now a thread on the GM boards, about running scenarios cold. Some of this discussion might be better served there.)

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Fromper wrote:
While I prepared in the sense of bringing 4 adventures with me, it's not like I had time to study them this time around.

I would say even that level of preparation is the exception rather than the rule, at least in my neck of the woods. Though I would be interested in seeing how common it is elsewhere.

I will now continue any further discussion of this on the GM boards.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

Paz wrote:
I can't remember if it was in a post or on a podcast, but I'm pretty sure Mike or John have stated that removing fully-legal races would be very unpopular and not something that they would consider doing.

It seems I was wrong for once! Well, I guess it had to happen eventually...

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

BigNorseWolf wrote:
trollbill wrote:


You would still have to play them all at least once before the dead line so I find it highly unlikely you would actually succeed at this.

... that sounds like a challenge! :)

Looks like Big Norse Wolf was right too!

Shadow Lodge

So, that earlier proposal I sketched, where any player or GM can unlock a race at certain "levels" (the one that encountered resistance for suggesting aasimar/tiefling get yoinked and made unlockable)...

Perhaps it's not so objectionable after all? Although it looks like it may need another update, since 3 of the races it was rewarding are open to all now.

I wonder if we advance to a year from now if nagaji/wayang/kitsune stop being available, and we have a 1-year hiatus where there are no new races made available (thus allowing the elemental subraces to have more than a year from GM boon to full availability).

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

wakedown wrote:

So, that earlier proposal I sketched, where any player or GM can unlock a race at certain "levels" (the one that encountered resistance for suggesting aasimar/tiefling get yoinked and made unlockable)...

Perhaps it's not so objectionable after all? Although it looks like it may need another update, since 3 of the races it was rewarding are open to all now.

I wonder if we advance to a year from now if nagaji/wayang/kitsune stop being available, and we have a 1-year hiatus where there are no new races made available (thus allowing the elemental subraces to have more than a year from GM boon to full availability).

Well, there were some other races that were boon only, like Dhampir...


Two months early but... the only new thing is Ratfolk is now on a Boon Sheet.

I'm just curious what the new race rotation will be.
Like:
- Wayang
- Nagaji

+ ?
+ ?

Sovereign Court

Mummified Familiar wrote:

Two months early but... the only new thing is Ratfolk is now on a Boon Sheet.

I'm just curious what the new race rotation will be.
Like:
- Wayang
- Nagaji

+ ?
+ ?

Way to necro a dead thread, and go completely off topic... start a new thread.... lol.


Gilardes wrote:
Mummified Familiar wrote:

Two months early but... the only new thing is Ratfolk is now on a Boon Sheet.

I'm just curious what the new race rotation will be.
Like:
- Wayang
- Nagaji

+ ?
+ ?

Way to necro a dead thread, and go completely off topic... start a new thread.... lol.

Completely off topic?

Kitsune/Nagaji/Wayang was on a chronicle sheet originally that was a convention boon. Only back in August of 2014 did those three races come off of "Boon-Only". So if another race rotation happened, and any of these three races were removed my question was "What would replace them that was originally Boon Only".

Also if I wanted to be off topic I would be talking about "Cold Running" when running a Scenario as a GM for PFS with little to none preparation time. Plus this thread has already been necro by others in the past.

Scarab Sages

It would allow for an interesting pace that would encourage player and GM alike to Grandfathering extra characters for storage in their account for usage and customization at a later date as they see fit. Not everyone can go to a convention but everyone can Grandfather. If I could, I would have load up my account with an Aasimar, Tengu, Tiefling, Nagaji, Kitsune, and Wayang. Make it so each can be grandfathered but so I can later on customize them to my heart's content and enjoy the luxury of having an exotic race at my disposal as well.

As for what of boons will become legal for play, well my personal hope is there is always a chance that the Elemental-kin will be available if such rotation did in fact happen.

I am personally fond of the idea of a GM unlocking race chronicle sheets whenever they advance from star to star and that race chronicle sheet would be mailed/e-mailed to them. Like a four star GM becoming a five star and as an extra little reward they unlock access to a chronicle sheet that allows for that GM to play as a Goblin. As Goblins in general are the mascot of Paizo when regarding Pathfinder. If the GM does not want that sheet, there is always the reasonable option that they can always trade boon for boon to something of their liking, a win/win scenario.

Just my 2 coins on this.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Yeah.. we get two 'anthro' species on the list at the same time on a yearly rotation and folks will wig totally out.

Seriously and totally wig the way out.

Me, I want to build a charging catfolk fighter.

Scarab Sages Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard aka WiseWolfOfYoitsu

As catfolk was an auction boon, I don't see it being a likely candidate.

Grand Lodge 4/5

WiseWolfOfYoitsu wrote:
As catfolk was an auction boon, I don't see it being a likely candidate.

I see less problem with them than the skaven..er..ratfolk...

Silver Crusade

They ever start the system of giving away race boons to those who can't get to cons or was this just a test thread to get our hopes up? Also if it has started then has anyone reading these post received one yet?

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

They never implimented the lottery system.

They MIGHT be doing a "collect x number of scenarios get race related items". No idea if that will translate into the race itself.

Silver Crusade 5/5

I think what I would like to see is when the Tien races rotate out (whether it be this August or next) they bring the four elemental races that have been seasonal GM convention boons into open play, hopefully bringing it into play as a subplot for season X.

Then, ideally they make the next wave of seasonal GM con boons Suli, Vishkanya, and two more, probably from the races that will have rotated out by that point (Aasimar, Tiefling, Nagaji, Kitsune, Wayang, and Tengu).

That allows for bumping Grippli and Ratfolk down to Tier 4-5 GM boons at Gencon, Samsaran down to Tier 3, and two new races for Tier Two and Tier One (maybe opening up a couple of the 2013 charity auctions races, at that point their owners' will have had 2-3 years of exclusivity) my ideal choices being Catfolk/Vanara for Tier Two and Changeling for Tier One.

At least, that's my two cents.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I do think the lottery idea was a good idea when it offered. I understand there wasn't enough support/interest for the idea.

At least nothing ever came of it.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

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There was so much dissent against the "lottery" system that I scrapped the idea.

Silver Crusade

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I think the do so many scenarios as a player gets you a boon.That would be a good system. Also running so many scenarios as a GM would be cool if that got you a boon too. You can make it a scale boon thing so the more you do the better the boons.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

Either way works for me.. but I liked Mike's suggestion last year.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber

We already have "GM so many scenarios, get a scaling boon". It's not a race boon, but check out the "GM Star Boons".

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

rknop wrote:
We already have "GM so many scenarios, get a scaling boon". It's not a race boon, but check out the "GM Star Boons".

Its on one character, the options are kinda meh, and has been almost universally described as meh at best. I can get the same reward for running either 100 games or the one right game.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Its a shame there was no lottery of sorts for chronicle sheets.

I personally would be a fan of more adventures having unique perks. I am in favor of three-part adventures that gives you access to something unique and out the ordinary. Like the one where you can get an axebeak. That was a fairly unique yet rewarding perk in my opinion.

Like in PFS how about a 11th level adventure, 3-parter, when this trio of adventures is completed it gives you access to a race that is hard to get normally.

Like an incentive to get you to make a new character so you could enjoy your reward and continue playing PFS from scratch. After all reaching 12th level as a player or getting to run that 3-parter adventure as a GM in PFS is an accomplishment in itself as its actually fairly rare.

Many video games give a player a reward in their playthrough for going the extra mile so their next playthrough feels more enjoyable. So what better thing for PFS then a rare/exotic race chronicle sheet for the player's hard work and dedication to reach level 12.

It is would be accessible to all members of the community. Yet it would still be rare at the same time as not every player can reach level 12 which can be a challenging task. Even GMs would have a challenge reaching this as they would first be able to have a full party of players that have reached level 11, then hope that the party succeeds in the 3-parter adventure.

As it would allow for players to become more focused and dedicated to actually try and rise to reach such a goal instead of just making their 795th 1st Level character and their highest level character is 3rd Level. As there wouldn't be an "IF" or "MAYBE", there is an actual reachable goal that wouldn't require going to a convention.

However this wouldn't step on the toes of conventions. As the 3-parter reward adventure could be for say the access to make ONE character that can be a Ratfolk. While you also have the chance to obtain a Ratfolk chronicle sheet at a convention.

It might be said that it would be stepping on the toes of conventions, however would it?

There is no denying that going to a convention gives you a better shot, yet that also means your your more money rich as you can afford to go to a convention. Sometimes not all of us want to make that tenth character that has reached level 8 but tragically died, again and we would be again denied reach the 11th level 3-parter adventure. For the community with those like-minded individuals, a convention offers that chance to get such a chronicle sheet.

The second option is for the person who is more time rich rather as opposed to money rich. The 3-parter adventure at level 11 would be the reward for the players who not only stuck with a character till that character's retirement, but the fact that character survived against so many odds. Even if it took thirteen characters to reach that goal. So when they finally get to play that Ratfolk or Ifrit or whatever, it will feel rewarding.

Since it would be a fairly big task to reach such a chronicle sheet to begin with, it wouldn't be like "SUDDENLY, RATFOLK ...THOUSANDS OF THEM!" like it was with the Aasimar/Tiefling.

...
... ...
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At least that is my 2 cents on it.

Grand Lodge

Getting to level 11 is not a difficult or time consuming task. We have players that started playing less than a year ago and have two 12+ characters and 3-4 in the 7-11 tier. We have people who have been playing about two years that have 5-6 12+ characters.

I do understand that not everywhere has the ability to field as many games as the NorCal but the assumption that level 11 is a hard to accomplish or even time consuming is just not accurate.

I really don't think Race boons should be awarded at all. We should have rotating race options, such as this year Tien races, next year elemental touched, following year plane touched and so on.

Boons should be tied to the season they are offered in and more closely aligned to the meta plot and/or offer mechanical benefits like day job increases, replay scenarios, and rebuild.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Race access should stay as it is now. Races rotating every other year gives players ample opportunity to make characters out of the current race options. Making it a yearly rotation would cycle through races too quickly, and would necessitate a reduction in the number of races cycled each year, in my opinion.

Race boons handed out should stay as is. GM convention boons are a valuable tool for leadership to reward the GM's willing to spend time and money to travel to conventions to help provide entertainment to others.

In the end, people are just going to complain about races/boons no matter what Mike and John do about them. When the Tian races rotate out whenever they do, there will be threads within a week or two with people complaining that they can't make a Kitsune/Nagaji anymore just like with Aasimar/Tieflings last year. I would rather Mike and John just make the decisions and tells us afterwards, or not even tell us afterwards.

Imagine if John hadn't made this blog post and just went ahead with his plans, and people just started receiving race boons randomly. Someone just plays the scenario with all the grippli and a month or so down the line they just receive a grippli boon out of the blue from management, think how cool that would have been. But John asked us first, and since we can't let ourselves have nice things, players raised such a stink that they scrapped the plan.


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Main reason no new system has been implemented like the Lottery that Micheal Brock purposed which got turned down by the vocal minority of the community...Buyer's Remorse.

Its honestly human nature that is getting in the way of anything nice being done for the community as a whole. Buyer's Remorse being part of this. People want to feel validated that the money they spent to go to that convention to get that race boon. Yet if that is the primary reason they went to the convention in the first place, to get a race chronicle sheet, then its honestly pitiful and the investment seems not as worthwhile if that was their primary reason for going.

If anything viewed as an easier means to obtain a chronicle sheet for a specific race is ever brought up, its shot down. Unless its in the boon trading thread, then its fine.

What is deemed as "unfair" by the community as a whole when regarding race chronicle sheets:

#1) Lottery system is considered "unfair".
#2) Convention system is considered "unfair".
#3) Online Payment system is considered "unfair".
#4) GM Reward system is considered "unfair".
#5) Player Reward system is considered "unfair".
#6) Rare-Reward-From-Adventure system is considered "unfair".

I honestly wish that Paizo just put their foot down and did it. Sure you still get a vocal minority complaining but its usually the silent majority that would actually be favor of positive changes.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I started reading this, and got excited. I was literally thinking, man, I know they talked about this a few years back and it sort of just never happened, (some vocal minority ruined it as I recall). Finally!!!

And then I look at the date. . .

Silver Crusade

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Michael Thompson wrote:

Getting to level 11 is not a difficult or time consuming task. We have players that started playing less than a year ago and have two 12+ characters and 3-4 in the 7-11 tier. We have people who have been playing about two years that have 5-6 12+ characters.

I do understand that not everywhere has the ability to field as many games as the NorCal but the assumption that level 11 is a hard to accomplish or even time consuming is just not accurate.

Yeah, it really kind of is. It's extremely difficult to get characters above 5th level around here because someone's always bringing a new character and you have to play down, and then the GMs (which will be the ones with the higher level characters) have to make new low-level characters to apply the credit to, and you wind up with a horde of characters in the 1 to 5 range and none above 6th level. My primary is newly 5th level and you know what I had to do to get to play him at all in the last year to get there? Go to a local convention and hope we got enough experienced players. Seriously. And I did get to play him once - in a table of 3, while there was a six person game of The Wounded Wisp going on at the next table over.

This isn't a bad state of affairs by any means; we have lots of fun with it. But it does mean that if any of our local core players and GMs (who are the same people, by the by) get to play in the upper mid levels at all it'll be because they went to Gen Con to grind for four days.


DM Beckett wrote:

I started reading this, and got excited. I was literally thinking, man, I know they talked about this a few years back and it sort of just never happened, (some vocal minority ruined it as I recall). Finally!!!

And then I look at the date. . .

Funny.

I saw the blog, started reading the first page and then started skipping through until I found the post were Mike decides to scrap the lottery because too many people complained. I didn't even realize this is almost two years old until I saw your post just now.

lol.

Sovereign Court

Renegade Paladin wrote:
It's extremely difficult to get characters above 5th level around here because someone's always bringing a new character and you have to play down, and then the GMs (which will be the ones with the higher level characters) have to make new low-level characters to apply the credit to, and you wind up with a horde of characters in the 1 to 5 range and none above 6th level.

It sounds like you should talk to whoever is organizing game days at your store and express your interest in playing at higher level tables and see if you can get some other like minded people to play higher tiered games with you. Maybe it'll be a small group for sure, but a lot of the high tier games are the ones that stand out as far as plot or memorability (at least in my experience). Might take some negotiating but if your group is not playing upper tier games they're missing out on a lot of excellent content.

Hope it works out, I personally like the high level play a lot more.

I wonder if its because people are nervous about high level play being difficult and are letting themselves be intimidated?

But I suppose community culture outstanding, getting to level 12 is certainly doable.

Silver Crusade

The core of the local PFS meta is my home gaming group. We are not intimidated by high-level play, I assure you. ;) But we are also the only ones who will GM with any regularity, and we regularly need at least two tables (with a regularly rotating cast of people floating in and out and/or trying new characters every month), so we often can't both make a legal table for higher tier play and still run tables for everyone else.

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