The Path Before You

I had previously said Qadira and Shadow Lodge. Here's my predictions of the rest of the year/examinations of thir current state.

Andoran: One half of the main rivalry in PFS. Most popular faction. Safe.
Cheliax: Second half of the main rivalry in PFS. Fairly popular. 'Evil is cool'. Safe.
Grand Lodge: Very safe thanks to combination of pregen-using people using the faction, and the implications of the Grand Lodge Faction of the PFS failing.
Lantern Lodge: Maybe safe. What happens to all the Samurai and Ninjas if LL goes away? perhaps hired by Sczarni, though I would think a Samurai who does that (flavor-wise) is more of a Ronin than one who is actually committed to a cause. :/
Osirion: Maybe safe. If the Ruby Prince dies, the country has inner-political turmoil. PFS affiliation blamed for the Prince's death. Amenophes killed or imprisoned for his failure. PFS membership continues.
Qadira: Maybe safe. At this point I find it hard to believe that they would want to remove some of the awesomeness involved in the story of a certain Season 2 scenario that inolves this faction. Political turmoil, at least for the faction head (not a reference to who I think the blog post is about).
Sczarni: Maybe safe. If they go under, remnants of faction get absorbed by possibly surviving Shadow Lodge.
Shadow Lodge: Probably safe. Season 2 plot, et al.
Silver Crusade: Probably safe. We need someplace for LG characters to go.
Taldor: Maybe safe. At this point I find it hard to believe that they would want to remove some of the awesomeness involved in the story of a certain Season 2 scenario that inolves this faction. Political turmoil (not a refernce to who I think the blog post is about).

That is entirely speculation. I have no idea who is involved with what, etc.

Anyway: Implications of Grand Lodge as a failed faction within the surviving Pathfinder Society as a whole. And...GO!

The Society collapses into something much more loosely organized, which is more chartered.

Fortress of the Nail still says "Unavailable" on its page. Mark, do you have an expected release date (Jan, Feb, March)? By guesstimation it comes out January alongside 4-EX Day of the Demon?

Day of the Demon comes out in February. The date listed on the website is the date in 2014 we anticipate the scenario being available for the general public. Fortress of the Nail is set to be released in January.

Day of the Demon comes out in February. The date listed on the website is the date in 2014 we anticipate the scenario being available for the general public.

Eep.

When in February? Will we have it to run at Mid-February conventions? We scheduled it based on the "Available January" line...

If two factions do disappear, what will happen to the Field Society Guide? Will that be updated, or retired and replaced with a newer book?

If two factions do disappear, what will happen to the Field Society Guide? Will that be updated, or retired and replaced with a newer book?

This will all happen with the start of Season 5, so, yes, the Guide will be updated to reflect the changes.

No, the Field Guide. The non-organized-play-related "Pathfinder Society Field Guide".

No, the Field Guide. The non-organized-play-related "Pathfinder Society Field Guide".

Given what happened with Seeker of Secrets, probably the same thing. Yet another replacement Core Assumption book, at some point.

And, as with Seeker, since there are still some awesome things in it, many people will still use the heck out of it.

Marty, player of several Lore Wardens.... And several PCs with Wayfinders with Ioun Stones in them....

Yet another replacement Core Assumption book, at some point.

Is this a problem you've experienced often in PFS? Having a core assumption book completely rendered worthless?

kinevon wrote:

Yet another replacement Core Assumption book, at some point.

Is this a problem you've experienced often in PFS? Having a core assumption book completely rendered worthless?

Nope, and it never has happened either.

No, the Field Guide. The non-organized-play-related "Pathfinder Society Field Guide".

Ah. Right. Missed that word there...

As someone said, considering the fact that Seeker of Secrets was replaced by the Field Guide, I think this can be expected to be replaced, as well.

@ Macon Bacon - Sort of. Not a problem so much as a Paizo way of doing business. They don't keep any of their line in print indefinitely (except core books), so the Field Guide is already starting to sell out. I haven't been able to get them from distributors for a couple months, now. In other words, as Paizo sells out of this, they will write something to replace the information it contains. The reset of the Society to 8 factions would lead to this, I'd think. Also, "worthless" is the wrong word. "Replaced" is more correct.

What HAS happened, is that Seekers of Secrets used to be part of the Core Assumption, then got "demoted" to merely an ordinary Additional Resource while the Field Guide became part of the Core Assumption.

The ramifications are that people using options from SoS had to start actually bringing it to the table and GMs were no longer required to be familiar with it themselves. Meanwhile, people don't have to bring copies of the Field Guide to use its content and GMs are expected to be at least marginally familiar with it.

So all that really changed for players was which thing they didn't have to bring with them to the table if they were using it.

If the sun sets on the Cheliax faction, they should hoist the flag for a pirate faction to oppose those Andoran gits. One with a worthy Pirate King at the helm!

After all, there are ninjas (Lantern Lodge) that must be keelhauled as well.

Mark Moreland wrote:

Day of the Demon comes out in February. The date listed on the website is the date in 2014 we anticipate the scenario being available for the general public.

Eep.

When in February? Will we have it to run at Mid-February conventions? We scheduled it based on the "Available January" line...

The last Wednesday of the month, as usual. When I get back in the office tomorrow, I'm going to see if we can make the release date clearer on the Day of the Demon product page, because a number of people have been interpreting the release date as January 2013 since the website doesn't list a year on the expected release date.

I understand the possible cuts. I guess I've always felt a little behind the curve on my ability to Participate in PFS in my area with huge regular expenditures in gas. I'm fairly active in my immediate region (heck I started a game day at my local Borders that ran for a year before they went out of business). Because of this I've always been "behind" on scenarios. Playing older ones because I missed them or using ones I've played or run before and know are good for the benefit of new players (since i know the scenario is a good one). There is also a lot of overlap in my immediate area so running something at one day make is more or less unavailable of other events the same month since the events closest to me don't have high numbers of players. And if it gets played at one event then there won't be enough players who haven't played it at another event. But maybe they haven't played the older scenario.

I've gone beyond starting to ramble, so Ill just stop.
I'm sure I'll get over any changes. If there were a way for you to invent 50-100% more time in my weekend so I could play more PFS without giving up home AP games (and keep my wife from being made for not spending time with her) that would be swell :)

@Mark Moreland:

I've not seen a response to this yet, and I'd really like to know: is this about faction population, or the percentage of success that the faction has achieved? In other words, are more prestige points earned better even against a lower ratio of possible prestige points earned. Or is this about the percentage of prestige points earned?

(To put another way, is it better for a faction to have James Bond and Jet Li, or rather ten thousand henchmen?)

@Mark Moreland:

I've not seen a response to this yet, and I'd really like to know: is this about faction population, or the percentage of success that the faction has achieved? In other words, are more prestige points earned better even against a lower ratio of possible prestige points earned. Or is this about the percentage of prestige points earned?

(To put another way, is it better for a faction to have James Bond and Jet Li, or rather ten thousand henchmen?)

I’m sure that Mike and/or Mark will correct me if I’m wrong, but…

I believe it was answered when Season 3 started, that faction success will be taken into account based on percentage of success of reported missions (i.e. if 10 Szarni get reported, and they succeed on 7 of those reports, they will be considered more successful than if 100 Andoran get reported but only succeed on 65 of them).

However, the dissolution of a faction may have more to do with actual faction population rather than success rate.

If reported numbers show that Faction X only has 15 reports out of the 10’s of thousands of characters that have played in a Season 4 scenario, then it doesn’t make sense to continue to allocate development resources towards that faction.

@Andrew Christian:

Thank you, that was insightful. hmmm - speaking against this (the population consideration) is that only season 4 commits are considered.

I find people worrying about their concepts being attacked is a little strange. The Taldan faction is not required to play a scheming Taldon noble. Just as the Scarni faction is not necessary to play a skeevy mobster from Varisia.

While I imagine a large number of characters are from the area aligned with their faction, it is in no way a requirement and the declining of influence of a faction in the society shouldn't strongly affect most concepts.

I'm sure there are exceptions and some concepts might be irreperably damaged but I imagine the number of actual characters strongly damaged by it is going to be quite low.

Rob: The bigger and more important issue is less of losing your faction identity and more of having to switch to a new one. For some of us, the other factions don't really accurately represent our goals. The best alternative would likely be Grand Lodge - but even then, some players may feel as if their allegiance is strained.

The Taldan faction is not required to play a scheming Taldon noble.

Not necessarily, no. But I didn't spend a bunch of time dreaming up something as boring as "a scheming Taldan noble," either. I have a very specific concept in mind, that requires the character to be working for Taldan interests if he's going to have any actual reason to be in the Society. If the faction collapsed, he would be recalled and placed somewhere else. Or continue to work for the glory of the country etc etc but I can't really play that if there are no more faction missions and I have to do someone else's dirty work besides. Especially when a number of those dirty works could conflict directly with Taldan interests.

@Andrew Christian:

Thank you, that was insightful. hmmm - speaking against this (the population consideration) is that only season 4 commits are considered.

I believe Mark has already indicated, that only season 4 results will be considered for any potential faction dissolution.

Rob: The bigger and more important issue is less of losing your faction identity and more of having to switch to a new one. For some of us, the other factions don't really accurately represent our goals. The best alternative would likely be Grand Lodge - but even then, some players may feel as if their allegiance is strained.

The Grand Lodge faction should never be a strained relationship (at least above any strained relationship a pathfinder might normally have against the organization they are a part of). It just represents the Society at large, and rather than working perhaps even against Society goals by being a member of a competing faction, ultimately you are a pathfinder. If your other competing faction goes away, you are still a pathfinder.

Hmm... something I hadn't considered. I need to get my Taldan sorcerer enough fame for a noble title before the faction goes away. I really don't care if the faction goes away. My PC just thinks it would be funny to get an official noble title (which he will continue using even if the faction goes away and the purchased boon for it is no longer valid). But that PC thinks everything is funny... except zombies, demons, and basilisks. He starts twitching uncontrollably whenever anyone mentions those.

Pirate Rob wrote:

The Taldan faction is not required to play a scheming Taldon noble.

Not necessarily, no. But I didn't spend a bunch of time dreaming up something as boring as "a scheming Taldan noble," either. I have a very specific concept in mind, that requires the character to be working for Taldan interests if he's going to have any actual reason to be in the Society. If the faction collapsed, he would be recalled and placed somewhere else. Or continue to work for the glory of the country etc etc but I can't really play that if there are no more faction missions and I have to do someone else's dirty work besides. Especially when a number of those dirty works could conflict directly with Taldan interests.

You could always be Qadiran and then fail all your faction missions.

Hmm... something I hadn't considered. I need to get my Taldan sorcerer enough fame for a noble title before the faction goes away. I really don't care if the faction goes away.

Hmm, what is it that has you thinking that Taldor is in danger at all, Fromper? We've seen nothing to indicate that it is.

-Matt

Qadirans never fail.

Oh, don't start that again...

As long as Shadow Lodge remains a viable faction, I could see it inheriting members from defunct factions. Can the Decemvirate be fully trusted if they oust a faction?

Thanks for keeping things vibrant. Just don't make any announcements on April 1st.

The Taldan faction is not required to play a scheming Taldon noble.

What is this scheming you speak of?

Qadirans never fail.

Swift Death. Roll a Fortitude save.

Pirate Rob wrote:

The Taldan faction is not required to play a scheming Taldon noble.

What is this scheming you speak of?

Pay no consideration to this misapplication of stereotypes, Genome. This one's assumption is that even insects are schemers.

You could always be Qadiran and then fail all your faction missions.

That ... would be hilarious enough that it might just be worth it.

Genome De Nhom wrote:

Pirate Rob wrote:

The Taldan faction is not required to play a scheming Taldon noble.

What is this scheming you speak of?

Pay no consideration to this misapplication of stereotypes, Genome. This one's assumption is that even insects are schemers.

The lady has obviously never met any praying mantis.

Fromper wrote:

Hmm... something I hadn't considered. I need to get my Taldan sorcerer enough fame for a noble title before the faction goes away. I really don't care if the faction goes away.

Hmm, what is it that has you thinking that Taldor is in danger at all, Fromper? We've seen nothing to indicate that it is.

-Matt

They might not be, but we don't know. That's just one of the few that has something specific I want to get before the option disappears.

As long as Shadow Lodge remains a viable faction, I could see it inheriting members from defunct factions. Can the Decemvirate be fully trusted if they oust a faction?

I find it highly unlikely that the Decemvirate would ever oust a faction.It is far more likely the factions in question would pull out with little warning to the Decemvirate

Im very happy that the campaign goes to such lengths to bring change within the storyline. I love it , in fact. I just wish they would bring in curses too for when characters go bad!.... (Something I miss from Living Arcanis)

Just because the faction is no longer involved in PFS politics does not mean the associated country will stop being around.

Spain, France, England and Netherlands sent colonies to the new world. And not all to the same place. Frex, only Spain sent 'ambassadors' to parlay with

It would be a shame if Cheliax got the ax. Zarta has the best Faction Mission flavor. Despite my first PFS character being Andoran, I prefer playing my Chelaxian Inquisitor of Asmodeus.

3 of my active PCs have faction traits. If they get hit by the contraction they will not only lose flavour, they will lose effectiveness and there cannot be any compensation for it.

My Ulfen/Tien bard, whose family has been traders across the Crown of the World for generations, will simply not fit anywhere other than the Lantern Lodge. Further, she makes use of the Storyteller trait EVERY adventure and there's nothing remotely comparable for a character with "the Sage" in her name. There is no second-best faction for her.

My Andoran pyromaniac alchemist has both the Freed Slave and Hunter's Eye traits. Freed Slave will persist, but Hunter's Eye is irreplaceable. When faced with long range combats where bomb use will never make sense, having access to a longbow is important, particulalrly when you are a small PC. There is no second-best faction for him.

My Osirion archer will lose Tomb Raider. Not much else grants a perception boost, though he can live quite well without Dungeoneering as a class-skill. He's already taken Additional Traits, so finding a decent kluge replacement will be nearly impossible. There is no second-best faction for him.

Claiming that it is "entirely a player's choice" to retire a PC that loses his/her faction is callous, mean-spirited and enirely self-serving. That attitude says "it's not our problem, it's your problem." It's a responsibility-free attitude, though perhaps that is to be expected given that we live in an age of increasingly broken societal norms where the pervasive POV is that "everyone else is to blame for everything, except of course ME".

Further, announcing this in December and saying there's about a month to make a difference says that you've already decided. The holiday season means that at the very least a significant minority of people fall into family commitments and required overtime at work to make season-end dealines and the shopping season. Very few people will have the time to match their desire to influence this outcome. Personally, I have only been able to play ONE of the Y4 scenarios and I do not anticipate getting the opportunity to play any others before year's end since I expect to see none offered where I can access them in the chosen timeframe.

All said, I am unimpressed with the decision and even moreso with the implementation thus far.

OpinionOrSatire,

Forgive my asking, but what makes you think that the collapse of a faction will invalidate the faction traits for existing characters? Quitting a faction preserves a character's faction trait. I presume that the faction's withdrawl from using Pathfinders as pawns will do likewise.

Just because your faction "goes away" wouldn't mean you'd lose your faction trait - I mean, that's still your background, and when you were young your faction *was* there. No *new* people would get the trait - the faction is gone, now - but short of a powerful modify memory spell, there's simply no reason that your actual *background* would be altered.

A lost faction might play a certain degree of havok with faction *vanities*, but even then it would depend on the vanity: for example, a Taldan who dresses "at the height of fashion" might still do so, and if they'd been granted a title by Stavian they'd still have it (Vienna was full of Romanov princes and princesses even after the Communist revolution in Russia), but they probably woudn't be a Lion's Blade anymore. And so on.

So I hardly think that faction death "ruins" a character. I know I can hardly imagine, for example, a "replacement" faction for Taldor for my 13th level sorcerer (in theory Cheliax would be a decent fit, if she didn't loath Cheliax with a passion), but I might well have as much fun lamenting Taldor's demise as I've had "repping" it (and granted, she's of a level where factions don't actually matter).

Certainly, if the *core feature* of a certain character is his/her faction, it's problematic when the faction vanishes, but I have to think that's a rare case.

There are currently no plans to replace any mechanical (or flavor) aspects of existing characters whose factions are retired from play.

If I were a member of the imaginary Gilmen faction (no we won't make one of those; don't ask), and I had taken the Drylander faction trait that let me travel on land longer than members of my race were typically able to, I wouldn't suddenly lose access to that part of my character because the Gilmen faction stopped playing a role in the campaign. If anything, I'd have a cool ability that a new member of the Pathfinder Society would never be able to have. It'd be unique just to me and others who participated in the campaign while that trait was available.

3 of my active PCs have faction traits. If they get hit by the contraction they will not only lose flavour, they will lose effectiveness and there cannot be any compensation for it.

Uh, how do you figure? Even if you were going to lose a trait--which it's already been pointed out that you won't--you could just ... select another trait.

Well, that's not always so easy, Patrick, given the restrictions on trait selection.

Can you add a Gilmen faction please?

I concur with Kyle. That would be cool. Of course, there would have to be an obligatory underwater scene in most scenarios, like back in the Super Friends.

Wouldn't we first need a boon to allow gilmen as a legal race?

Nah, just take the Racial Hertiage feat or the Adopted Trait. That should do it, right?

Well, that's not always so easy, Patrick, given the restrictions on trait selection.

Yes. Yes, it is.

OpinionOrSatire said "there cannot be any compensation for [their faction traits not working anymore]." I say that's completely untrue, because if that were going to be the case, new traits could be selected to replace them. They would be the same traits available during character building, possibly plus new ones that have come out since, with the only modification being the list of faction traits, since a new faction would be in effect.

What restrictions are you envisioning? Do you really think the campaign leadership would say "You get a rebuild, but we're going to make it suck for you"? Or are you theorizing a character build that utterly hinges on a faction trait?

Maybe if people read the traits and vanities and then thought about how they'd be impacted if that faction went away, they'd be a little less worried about everything.